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2006-11-23 Syria-Lebanon-Iran
France authorizes troops to fire at IAF jets over Lebanon
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Posted by Fred 2006-11-23 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 If the French troops decide to fire on the Israeli jets they probably won't feel threatened any more. They probably won't feel ANYTHING anymore.

The Israeli's wouldn't have to be doing these flyovers if the UNIFIL troops were doing their job of disarming Hezbollah or at least keeping them from rearming.
Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore  2006-11-23 00:19||   2006-11-23 00:19|| Front Page Top

#2 Hizb'allah is building new fortifications right next to the French I would bet,and the French are doing nothing, this is what they did to UNIFIL last time.

If France should fire on an Israeli aircraft and hit one she must understand that it will have consequences outside of France and Israel. The Germans too must understand that they put their forces at risk if the French fire on a Israeli aircraft. When Resoltion 1701 is enforced by UNIFIL against Hizb'allah the French can worry about Israel, not until then.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2006-11-23 01:30|| www.sockpuppetofdoom.com]">[www.sockpuppetofdoom.com]  2006-11-23 01:30|| Front Page Top

#3 RE: *Overflights*

Available *SKY* [maneuvering space] for a IAF fighter jet

As the crow flies it's only 50km from Israel's Northern border to Beirut.

West to East, it's only 25 klicks from the Med to the Golan along the same border.

that's an awfully confined area to remain in while patrolling in an F-16 at 400 to 500 MPH.

Posted by RD 2006-11-23 02:39||   2006-11-23 02:39|| Front Page Top

#4 No small wonder that speculation about Israel's Sampson Option has it including parts of Europe along with all of the major MME (Muslim Middle East) capitals. If France looses even a single round against Israeli aircraft, I hope every last one of their installations, troops and escort ships are blown straight to hell. Vichy is alive and well, and it sorely needs another solid dose of post-war treatment.

The eliteist French polity is an enemy of all free people. Where is Madame Lafarge when we need her?
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-23 03:55||   2006-11-23 03:55|| Front Page Top

#5 Evidentally, France has grown a pair since recent pummeling delivered against weak, impoverished African neo-colonies (Ivory Coast, for example).

But the Frenchies will soon discover that Israel's military is not some third rate, rag-tag collection of "spray and pray" shooting militiamen.

Alas, this "newfound boldness" from Israel's enemies (I include France among them) stems from the Israeli political leadership's failure to defeat Hezbollah last summer.
Posted by Lancasters Over Dresden 2006-11-23 04:34|| http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com]">[http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com]  2006-11-23 04:34|| Front Page Top

#6 Hizb'allah is building new fortifications right next to the French I would bet,and the French are doing nothing

I wouldn't say that. I'd bet the French are doing whatever they can to help Hizbollah.
Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2006-11-23 08:49|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2006-11-23 08:49|| Front Page Top

#7 They'll only do it once.
Posted by .com 2006-11-23 08:54||   2006-11-23 08:54|| Front Page Top

#8  They'll only do it once.

Well said, polite, and understated. A point that will be missed entirely by the French. LOL
Posted by 49 Pan 2006-11-23 09:18||   2006-11-23 09:18|| Front Page Top

#9 I hope you guys are right. I'm beginning to doubt Israel's resoluteness in these matters. Sharon said he would not tolerate even one rocket attack after pulling out of Gaza. Look where we are today. We've seen hundreds of rocket attacks, and still, we are waiting for the hammer to fall.

I feel like its the mid 1930s. We are approaching a major disaster and nobody wants to take action.
Posted by Lanny Ddub 2006-11-23 09:46||   2006-11-23 09:46|| Front Page Top

#10 Scenario:

IAF jets are flying surveillance over Lebanon. One element flies a little too low (thus 'threatening' the French), and French AA units open fire. One Israeli F-15 is downed; the others return to base.

In response, the IAF opens a large can of whupass and over the next 24 hr flattens a number of French UNIFIL sites. Italian and other nationality UNIFIL sites are left untouched. The Israeli PM and FM refuse to apologize and warn the French that any further attacks on Israeli aircraft will be met by a 'disproportionate response.'

Hokay, question:

What do the French do in return?

I ask because, armchair general that I am, I don't see what the French can do with conventional weapons to harm the Israelis. The Chicken of the Sea Charles deGaulle carrier certainly isn't going to sortie for strikes against Haifa. The French might have some long-range strike aircraft but they'd have to refuel somehow, and I don't see the French pulling off a successful long-range strike against an alerted Israel.

They might have cruise missiles on submarines, but so do the Israelis. A tit-for-tat response doesn't help the French at all.

So what do the French do? I see a binary option: nothing or nuclear. That worries me.
Posted by Steve White">Steve White  2006-11-23 10:31||   2006-11-23 10:31|| Front Page Top

#11 Dr. White,

The French will not go nuclear on anybody. They still want to live. If a muzzie were in charge, I might be worried.

We'll not see but there'll be a lot of ECM games by both sides before any action like this occurs. If the frogs ever lock onto an Israeli target, I suspect there's going to be HARMs in the strike package from now on to deal with the problem in real time.

I also question your assumption about the Israeli response. If they call Hamas terrorists to tell them they're going to bomb their house, I suspect they'd give the French at least 30 minutes notice, probably via Kofi. Long enough to get the poilus out but not the missiles and radar. France will spew at the UN for failing to protect its peacekeepers and pack up to go home. Spain and Italy will beat them to the docks.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-11-23 10:59||   2006-11-23 10:59|| Front Page Top

#12 Steve, They will surrender, like they always do. LOL
Posted by 49 Pan 2006-11-23 11:01||   2006-11-23 11:01|| Front Page Top

#13 Re: the speculation about the French long range and having to refuel: there would be a certain irony in them requesting IFR assistance from the US and being rejected. Can you say Libya 1980?
the frogs are only going to croak and grumble, the troops on the ground know they don't wnat to be the one to test the IDF's resolve.
Posted by USN,Ret 2006-11-23 13:06||   2006-11-23 13:06|| Front Page Top

#14 I see a binary option: nothing or nuclear.

It would be an ultimate irony if Europe's strongest proponent of the Eurabia Code were to trigger Israel's Sampson Option with an ill-advised nuclear attack. No one would have to ask the eternal question; "Is Paris burning?". It would be vaporized.

I doubt the French will initiate any attacks as their precious aircraft carrier instantly would become a prime target.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-23 13:34||   2006-11-23 13:34|| Front Page Top

#15 I don't see anything happening. The French Army are pretty much professionals now.

If for some reason there was an incident, I would expect the retaliation to be local. But I would also guess the IDF might expand their recon flights to include the Rhone Valley.
Posted by 6 2006-11-23 16:10||   2006-11-23 16:10|| Front Page Top

#16 What do the French do in return?

I ask because, armchair general that I am, I don't see what the French can do with conventional weapons to harm the Israelis.


A sizable share of Israel's exports has to get tp Western Mediterranean ie outside the range of the IAF and well in range for the French Navy and Air Force. Of course this would not save the poor guys in Lebanon except as a deterrent.
Posted by JFM">JFM  2006-11-23 16:52||   2006-11-23 16:52|| Front Page Top

#17 The French would simply pull out of the Unifil arrange; as would be demanded by French PO!
Posted by smn 2006-11-23 17:35||   2006-11-23 17:35|| Front Page Top

23:56 RD
23:54 wxjames
23:50 wxjames
23:42 .com
23:38 wxjames
23:35 .com
22:56 Mick Dundee
22:55 wxjames
22:55 James
22:54 xbalanke
22:50 wxjames
22:43 xbalanke
22:43 JosephMendiola
22:26 Zenster
22:26 USN,Ret
22:19 wxjames
22:17 USN,Ret
22:14 Zenster
21:52 Sneaze Shaiting3550
21:42 JosephMendiola
21:29 JosephMendiola
21:25 JosephMendiola
21:16 plainslow
21:15 JosephMendiola









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