Article

2005-06-17 Europe

The German Chair: a tale of torture at the hands of an America-hating diplomat

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Posted by Mike 2005-06-17 08:00|| || Front Page|| [7 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Interesting story that clearly illustrates the Left's complete derangement. There is no date on when this happened but the European grand (Leftist) project coming unglued in the face of popular democracy doubtless contributed.

Posted by phil_b 2005-06-17 09:15|| 2005-06-17 09:15|| Front Page Top

#2 It may well have been the ambassador himself. David's Medienkritik covered the ambassador's enlightening interview with the New Yorker at the end of May, and his subsequent clarification. I actually corresponded at length with the ambassador's spokeswoman about his rudeness and historical innacuracy. If you wish to write to her directly, her email is martina.nibbeling-wriessnig@diplo.de

Posted by trailing wife 2005-06-17 09:26|| 2005-06-17 09:26|| Front Page Top

#3 Logic and reason don't work on knuckleheads and you'll never change the twisted beliefs of somebody as far gone as this. Stephens should have gone ahead and ripped this guy to his face.

If it screws up his wife's friendship with this toad's wife then at least he will never have to endure getting invited over again.

Posted by Laurence of the Rats">Laurence of the Rats 2005-06-17 09:33|| http://www.punictreachery.com]">[http://www.punictreachery.com] 2005-06-17 09:33|| Front Page Top

#4 An interesting but not at all suprising description. For that we should thank the informant for providing a better understand of that which was generally understood. One thing bothers me though. The poor man's got no backbone or open field running skills whatsoever it seems. It's rarely a good idea to suffer a ejgit nutter fool whether it be in his home or his country. This would especially be the case when he's in your own country and feels entitled to go on an ideological rant about your country. There are a thousand ways to make an ejgit well aware of exactly how you feel short of sucker punching or insulting directly. Repeated, gentle vebal truncheon blows that leave no visible marks are best especially when mixed with disarming humor. I've had the dubious honor of having to deal with a very similar type of experience ever year when I'm with some of my unreformed socialist Irish inlaws as well as a friend's German wife here at home in America. When you feel out the rules of the hometeam so as not to cause grievous harm, it can become great sport and entertainment.

Posted by Tkat 2005-06-17 09:46|| 2005-06-17 09:46|| Front Page Top

#5 Bret Stephens should reveal the guy's name, and the State Department should PNG his ass.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-06-17 10:00|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-06-17 10:00|| Front Page Top

#6 Phuck 'em.

It's time to give as good as we get. Next time some leftist scum gives you (anybody) crap for being an American, tell them to piss off and crawl home to their shit-hole country.

Posted by Hyper">Hyper 2005-06-17 10:02|| 2005-06-17 10:02|| Front Page Top

#7 The German diplomat is a clod. That's not news as their ambassador has previously demonstrated. Mr. Stephens is an interesting guy, too. Recall he poo-poohed the Eason Jordan "American soldiers target journalists" outburst at Davos.

Now he goes to a guy's home and endures insults without comment because of concern for his wife's relationship with the other wife. Is he really incapable of any clever retort? Instead, he goes home and writes a get-even column and has it published in America's best newspaper (or at least it was till Mr. Stephens got to the editorial staff). As if no one in their circles will know about whom this column is written. In a day or two, some member of these circles might even leak the name to the NY Post. Maybe even the oh-so-ethical Mr. Stephens. Wonder what that will do for the wife's friendship.

Sorry, Mr. Stephens merely chose not to fight a fight worth fighting face to face, but to go home and get the proverbial pen/sword and stick it to the other guy between the scapula. Not somebody I'd want to toss back a few brewskis with.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-06-17 10:18|| 2005-06-17 10:18|| Front Page Top

#8 phil_b:

It cannot be the embassdor himself: the embassador lives at the embassy in Washinton not at New York's consulate.

BTW: When a diplomat is offensive to the country he is assigned to, that country can pressure the diplomats's country for a new one or, if he really, really goes too far, declare him Persona non grata and expel him.

BTW2: Diplomat's job is to soften feathers so it strikes me as highly unusual to send a guy to a country he hates, at least when he is unable to hide this hate. The fact this guy has been appointed to New York means that either the guy who appointed him is a complete idiot or that he considers Germany to be at war, diplomatically speaking, with America

Posted by JFM">JFM 2005-06-17 10:24|| 2005-06-17 10:24|| Front Page Top

#9 JFM, it is clearly both. Look at the way Schroeder is acting. He's the head honcho. It is hard to believe Fischer appears to be the responsible member of the German foreign policy team, but that appears to be the case. This election can't come too soon for German-American relations.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-06-17 10:37|| 2005-06-17 10:37|| Front Page Top

#10 Mrs Davis:

Many people, myself included, can find themselves unable to adequately respond to such attacks, specially when they are taken by surprise or have to deal with considerations like being the guest of the attacker or when going for the clash would cause a displeasure to their consort, because the attacker is family or because the consort works with him.

It happenned to me last week-end and was unable to find on the spot a good reply for letting know to the moonbat what I thought from him but without going too far. I found it 10 minutes later.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2005-06-17 11:00|| 2005-06-17 11:00|| Front Page Top

#11 Even tho this is the WSJ, it feels phony.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-17 11:10|| 2005-06-17 11:10|| Front Page Top

#12 JFM, I don't disagree, but I am suspicious of an editorialist who appears on TV talk shows regularly having the same unrecoverable gobstruckednes that mortals such as you and I suffer.

But even if he did, it is a pretty low thing to write about it in this manner when you finally do come up with the riposte, instead of keeping it to yourself or addressing it to the source. Something just isn't right about Mr. Stephens.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-06-17 11:16|| 2005-06-17 11:16|| Front Page Top

#13 I'd say it's much more likely that Stephens didn't say anything cuz he was too busy encouraging this guy.

That's what I'd do.

I love to get goof-balls wound up: I'd *really* love it if I could do so & record my efforts in the WSJ.

Posted by Rawsnacks 2005-06-17 11:45|| 2005-06-17 11:45|| Front Page Top

#14 I'm sending this off to David's Medienkritik.

This should be fun.

Old goat doesn't understand the blogosphere.

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-06-17 12:56|| 2005-06-17 12:56|| Front Page Top

#15 I agree with Mrs. Davis. Although the diplomat's comments were inappropriate, there's something "not right" about the way Stephens handled the situation. At least the diplomat was up front with his statements, which he mainly recited from what was said or written by American politicians and American MSM media,whereas Stephens waited until he got to the safety of his office to formulate a response that ended up being a US wide expose. Strange. Did Stephens half believe the accusations? Is he a runofthemill back-stabber - odd that he talks about respecting his host, an innate sense of propriety but then he turns around to tell everyone under the sun about what was said in the privacy of the diplomat's home. What the diplomat said was insulting but what Stephens did was cheesy.

Posted by Thotch Glesing2372 2005-06-17 13:37|| 2005-06-17 13:37|| Front Page Top

#16 Engaging idiots' idiocy gives them power by perpetuating the conversation on their terms.

Whether this story is true or not, it's easy to find similar pathetic spew. These fools care nothing for logic or reasoned discourse, and they will not be swayed by facts and history. This vile filth simply deserves ridicule and scorn, not serious debate.

Next time you're confronted by rediculous drivel, don't bother trying to think of the appropriate intelligent response. Treat it like the garbage it is and laugh in their face. Nothing stops them in their tracks like laughing at them.

Posted by Hyper">Hyper 2005-06-17 16:18|| 2005-06-17 16:18|| Front Page Top

#17 I don't know Mr. Stephens well enough to know what kind of person he is. I do have some sympathy as I have occasionally been in this situation. I work with a number of fine people at the University, most of whom are in the political spectrum of moderately left to rabidly left. I'm clearly the most conservative person in our group, and I consider myself a moderate conservative. So from time to time I'm in a situation at work (faculty lunch, conference, etc) where I'm biting my tongue rather hard.

I could snap back. I could start the political argument. I'm well-armed with facts (thanks to Rantburg and other weblogs), and I consider myself to be a decent debater. I could do it.

But many times I don't. I bite my tongue. As Mr. Stephens points out, I extend a courtesy to my colleagues. Sometimes I get slapped for that.

Perhaps it's the way I was raised, where courtesy and decent treatment of others was very highly prized. I don't know. But I do know that in the situation Mr. Stephens noted, I very likely would not have gone for the diplomat's throat.

I will note that I was at a dinner party with very good friends of mine about a year ago. Another couple, friendly with my wife adn the wife of our friends, was there, and it was clear that the man of this couple was a card-carrying member of ANSWER. And he and I got into it, pretty intense and in the end, very rude. I still hear about it. My friends support me and understand why I laid into the guy, but I still hear about it.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2005-06-17 17:57|| 2005-06-17 17:57|| Front Page Top

#18 But Dr. Steve, you didn't turn around a few days later and regurgitate what offended you at the coctail party and publish your rebuttal arguments in the University's newsletter or send all this info by broadcast mail to everyone in your department. I think that's what disturbed me about Mr. Stephen's behavior. He tried to have it both ways. He did not take a stand at the time. But then he made a big to-do after the fact for everyone to read. I still think that's cheesy.

Posted by Thotch Glesing2372 2005-06-17 18:13|| 2005-06-17 18:13|| Front Page Top

#19 Dr Steve! You're a closet mauler! You may not want to hear this, especially from me, lol, but good on ya. If you don't actually like it just a little teensy bit when you "still hear about it", then I think there's a problem.

Defending your beliefs, your right to believe them (despite the Fascists' desire to make you shut up and listen to them), and our way of life, well, it's just not something to apologize for - to anyone, anytime, anywhere. If you didn't defend them against a rabid barbarian, since you're an honest man, you would have to face the toughest and harshest judgement possible: your own.
:-)

Posted by .com 2005-06-17 18:18|| 2005-06-17 18:18|| Front Page Top

#20 I do have some sympathy as I have occasionally been in this situation.

It seems a lot of us have been in this situation. Count me in. I've given up on rational conversations and rebuttals with these types of people. But there does come a point at which I just have to say something, and it usually isn't pretty. I have a low tolerance threshold for anti-American diatribes, what can I say :)

Posted by Rafael 2005-06-17 18:41|| 2005-06-17 18:41|| Front Page Top

#21 The thing is, Germans in this situation don't see themselves as being rude. If challenged, they insist they are offering criticisms in the spirit of honest friendship... the same way they slam Israel for defending itself against terrorists.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-06-17 18:42|| 2005-06-17 18:42|| Front Page Top

#22 For the record, I think Mr. Stephens did the right thing. He is a journalist, its his job to inform the public. The diplomat, an official representing his country, OTOH was deranged enough to say these things to a journalist and someone he had never met before. And even if Mr. S wasn't a journalist or the diplomat didn't know, then in this day and age anyone can be a blogger. I have no time for people like the diplomat who live in a Leftist, timewarp, alternate reality of their own (collective) invention. I repeat Mr. Stephens did the right thing and his motivations for doing so are immaterial to the discussion.

Posted by phil_b 2005-06-17 18:42|| 2005-06-17 18:42|| Front Page Top

#23 Mr Stephens is a total fool. He should have said, "very interesting, can I quote you on that. That would have forced the man to consider if his statements are worth ending his career over or not, and it would have been done in a professional (he's a journalist after all) and polite manner.

Posted by RJSchwarz 2005-06-17 19:08|| rjschwarz.com]">[rjschwarz.com] 2005-06-17 19:08|| Front Page Top

#24 Dr. Steve - apparently that's why I'm seldom invited to faculty dinners - honest to a fault.

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-06-17 19:09|| 2005-06-17 19:09|| Front Page Top

#25 Dr. Steve,

I can assure you that whenever you want to leave the Blue City, you will have no trouble starting a practice. And it's kind of fun to be the neighborhood liberal for a change.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-06-17 19:33|| 2005-06-17 19:33|| Front Page Top

#26 It was a private conversation, so I think it should have been resolved privately.
I don't know how authentic it is. Being a guest does not mean you have to tolerate this kind of crap.
And would a German diplomat would talk like this to a journalist?
It should be remembered that most diplomats did not have a "green" or "red" career. The German Foreign Office has been the "domain" of the Liberal Democrats (FDP) for decades, and diplomats are usually US-friendly, especially the older ones. Older diplomats may even be a bit to conservative, with some "brown" heritage.
I'll guess in a few days this will hit the German press. The WSJ is not ignored here.
And after September 18th we'll take care of problematic cases.
But I can't help it: This article is strange. I guess it would be easy to find out who this diplomat was. Something smells like a cheap shot.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-06-17 20:05|| 2005-06-17 20:05|| Front Page Top

#27 Not a diplomat involved....But... in the mid 80s I was sitting in the bar of the Barbican Hotel (City of London) and the bartender tried to start a fight with me because he hated Americans and was upset that I was trying to train the help to serve me better then other's with the ILLEGAL ACT of TIPPING. (no VAT included)
It turned out he was head of the local Communist Party chapter and hotel workers union. I was on per-diem with expenses so I decided to argue with the guy and buy drinks at the same time....
I said: I'm bored. How about I buy you drinks with me and we talk about it. There are no other customers around. About six drinks in I got him to admit that he voted for Thatcher!
Argument over!

Posted by 3dc 2005-06-17 20:24|| 2005-06-17 20:24|| Front Page Top

#28 Truth to tell (I realize this is my 3rd comment in this thread -- sorry, I'm not thinking efficiently today) this reminds me of the story that broke in England some time back. The French diplomat at a dinner party attended by an English journalist who happened to be Jewish -- and the diplomat spent the evening spewing about why should the world have to suffer because of "that shitty little country, Israel." All there knew that this woman was both Jewish and a joournalist, which didn't stop him. Big brouhaha, on his part that a private conversation was made public. This kind of bloody-minded nonsense will only stop when it once again becomes socially unacceptable for the elites to feel free to say such things... and unfortunately the only way to do so is to publically pillory the nasty fools, as Mr. Stephens, who lived for years in Israel and wrote a column for the Jerusalem Post, has done. That the diplomat didn't think to check on the background of his guests shows the calibre of the German foreign service under the Schroeder regime. Hopefully Frau Merkel will quickly appoint someone to clean out the dregs following her election, leaving behind those that TGA speaks so kindly of, who will have the unwelcome task of repairing Germany's reputation in diplomatic circles.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-06-17 20:43|| 2005-06-17 20:43|| Front Page Top

#29 All I can say is that I wouldn't need the WSJ to make my point if I'm confronted with an idiot like that.
Even in his house. Does Mr Stephen think his article won't be investigated? Sorry man, name your source.
Only bad journalists quote the odd taxi driver when trying to prove what "those folks really think".

Posted by True German Ally 2005-06-17 21:47|| 2005-06-17 21:47|| Front Page Top

#30 I was once out for drinks with a Japanese sarariman when he suddenly declared that there should be no more Hiroshimas, Vietnams, or Nagasakis. I immediately agreed and added that there shouldn't be any more Nanjings either. One thing about the Japanese, they can take a hint, unlike most of the teutonic types I've met.

Posted by 11A5S 2005-06-17 23:17|| 2005-06-17 23:17|| Front Page Top

#31 Frankly, there are certain responsibilities that befall a host as well; even for the mentioned German diplomat.

But in fairness to Herr Diplomat, he has probably entertained his share of weasel American lefties and thought he was free to make an ass of himself. You know, the same lefties who vowed to move out of the country should Bush be reelected.

Posted by Captain America 2005-06-17 23:22|| 2005-06-17 23:22|| Front Page Top

#32 I have written to the assistant to the German ambassador in Washington, DC, to give her a heads up that damage control will be needed again. And to let her know that her boss may have been tactless in his comments during an interview last month, but that this gentleman was entirely out of line. I thought it a kindness to do so, she wrote back to me so earnestly after I commented about the last contretemps.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-06-17 23:29|| 2005-06-17 23:29|| Front Page Top

23:57 JosephMendiola
23:53 mojo
23:40 Captain America
23:35 trailing wife
23:35 badanov
23:29 trailing wife
23:22 Captain America
23:17 11A5S
23:13 3dc
23:07 3dc
22:59 Just About Enough!
22:13 trailing wife
22:12 Ptah
22:12 Frank G
22:00 Frank G
21:58 macofromoc
21:58 Frank G
21:56 Frank G
21:54 Frank G
21:51 Frank G
21:47 trailing wife
21:47 True German Ally
21:42 From all the Spembles
21:39 trailing wife