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2005-01-20 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by Steve 2005-01-20 8:53:56 AM|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Steve: As soon as we heard there were Chinese women involved, we felt we had to nail them.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-01-20 9:42:44 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-01-20 9:42:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 A-Q recruitees? Who be they? Seems top be a lack of information concerning their motives..

Posted by Howard UK 2005-01-20 9:52:33 AM|| 2005-01-20 9:52:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Hey...can't fault the FBI for that kind of tradition.

Posted by gromky 2005-01-20 10:33:11 AM|| 2005-01-20 10:33:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 If they're driving up from the Mexican border, they're probably a bigger threat to more Americans then if they had the bomb.

Posted by tu3031 2005-01-20 10:59:34 AM|| 2005-01-20 10:59:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Do these Chinese come from the only Muslim province (cannot spell name)in China?

Posted by Gruck Snetle5118 2005-01-20 11:43:13 AM|| 2005-01-20 11:43:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Sounds like the old Red Army Brigade terrorist hit at the Israeli airport luggage pickup scenario.

Posted by Glavising Flineng2775 2005-01-20 12:20:40 PM|| 2005-01-20 12:20:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Perhaps AQ is subcontracting their work these days. Wouldn't that make this un-islamic? They could be Uighers from the ethnic Turkic people from Western China who's ETIM movement is looking to set up an Islamic Autonomous Zone. Very common amongst these followers of Allan - Aceh, Chechnya, Thailand, etc. etc. Judging by their ethnically Han names it's not likely they are Uighers. Zei feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Posted by Rightwing 2005-01-20 12:21:24 PM|| 2005-01-20 12:21:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Rightwing: Judging by their ethnically Han names it's not likely they are Uighers. Zei feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The Han names don't mean that they are Han Chinese. Confucius was the Latin name for Kong Fuzi. Doesn't mean that Confucius was Roman. Minorities that are absorbed into the Chinese empire have typically taken up Chinese names. Uighurs should look different, though - Caucasoid - more like Afghans than like the Han Chinese. If they're Uighurs, it'll be a lot harder to find them. However, Uighurs are not the only Muslims in China. The Hui number in the millions and look as Chinese as everyone else.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-01-20 12:42:33 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-01-20 12:42:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Saudis often rely on contractors...

Posted by Tom 2005-01-20 12:46:11 PM|| 2005-01-20 12:46:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Thanks for the clarity Zhang. Now that you mention it I believe I saw a piece about sectarian violence between the Han and the Hui. Is it safe to assume the Hui feel persecuted even though all practiced religon is subject to persecution. Also, I heard on NPR that Christianity is widely practiced, albeit underground in much of the countryside. My questioning is purely interrogative.

Posted by Rightwing 2005-01-20 2:56:43 PM|| 2005-01-20 2:56:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Underground? There's a giant Catholic cathedral in the middle of my town. It's quite open, though I'm sure if you start making trouble they'll come down on you. There's even an evangelical congregation, which I passed the other day and noticed the cross on the door and singing coming out of the place. My girlfriend said something about them, to the effect that they were weirdos :).

Posted by gromky 2005-01-20 3:10:22 PM|| 2005-01-20 3:10:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 gromky: Underground? There's a giant Catholic cathedral in the middle of my town. It's quite open, though I'm sure if you start making trouble they'll come down on you. There's even an evangelical congregation, which I passed the other day and noticed the cross on the door and singing coming out of the place.

I'm not personally familiar with Chinese churches, but I have heard that as in the Soviet Union, only official churches are permitted. These churches deny the Virgin Birth, and the Second Coming. According to ethnic Chinese pastors in NYC, the underground churches have been subjected to persecution, and various church members have been beaten to death in an attempt to get them to renounce their faith.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-01-20 3:31:54 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-01-20 3:31:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 The official churches boil the religion down to a bunch of moral precepts, which is clearly not what Christianity is all about. This persecution is why Chinese Christians can be extremely anti-government.

gromky: My girlfriend said something about them, to the effect that they were weirdos :).

No surprise here. Classes in Ideology, which are taught from first grade onwards, tend to refer to Chinese Christians as the running dogs of the Western barbarians - i.e. betrayers of China and slaves of the West. The Boxer Rebellion, in which tens of thousands of Chinese Christians and a few hundred European clergy and bystanders were hacked to pieces, is celebrated as a glorious moment in Chinese resistance against the West.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-01-20 3:41:52 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-01-20 3:41:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 These might be Chinese sleepers to mirror the Russian sleepers who were supposed to conduct acts of sabotage on US soil in the event of war. The authors of Unrestricted Warfare seemed to think that nothing was off-limits. We may yet find out what the Chinese government considers acceptable, if war breaks out over Taiwan. (Maybe Ted Kennedy will call a defense of Taiwan a distraction from the War on Terror).

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-01-20 3:50:50 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-01-20 3:50:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I can't imagine China would test the waters with th US via blackmail or domestic terror threats. The US is China's #1 business partner. With it's surging ecomony and current population swell why would they ever want to return to the agrarian days of ole Mao?

Posted by Rightwing 2005-01-20 4:22:06 PM|| 2005-01-20 4:22:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Rightwing: I can't imagine China would test the waters with th US via blackmail or domestic terror threats. The US is China's #1 business partner. With it's surging ecomony and current population swell why would they ever want to return to the agrarian days of ole Mao?

The sleeper scenario has nothing to do with trade and everything to do with war. If they can carry off an attack and blame it on Muslim terrorists, it slows the US down and makes the US more wary of foreign entanglements, since the charge from liberals will be that security begins at home.

The stagnation under Mao had little to with trade (or the lack of it) with the US. Mao came up with cockamamie economic schemes that killed tens of millions. China, like the US, is pretty much self-sufficient (except in several commodities which are purchased from abroad for cost reasons) - continental-scale countries tend to be that way.

China is now a capitalist country. Relative to China today, the US is the socialist country. Hiring and firing at will with zero separation benefits is the trend in China. Unemployment benefits do not exist, except for those who formerly worked at state-owned companies, and even then, many companies tend to shirk these obligations.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-01-20 5:31:57 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-01-20 5:31:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Rightwing: I can't imagine China would test the waters with th US via blackmail or domestic terror threats.

This isn't about blackmail or domestic terror threats. It's about deniable sabotage that can be fobbed off on Muslim terrorists. The Russians weren't in-country to start a war - they were here in the event that war started, in which case they would carry out the sabotage operations for which they had been trained. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Chinese operatives had been deployed in-country waiting for the moment that the balloon goes up. I don't think it's prudent for them to do it, because of the danger of discovery or defections, but that may not stop them.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-01-20 5:44:31 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-01-20 5:44:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 There are 60 million muslims in China.
( see themodernreligion.com ) easy for a few of these to go loco Im sure. At one time or another I hear even Bin Laden could be hiding in remote southern China. Could be a new extremeist hot bed.

Posted by tex 2005-01-20 5:52:02 PM|| 2005-01-20 5:52:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Tex, since the latest head count is 1.3 billion, 60 million is about 4.62%. Sizable, yes, but when push comes to shove...21:1... there are probably no muslims in PLAoC and the army wouldn't be having much qualms about putting them mooselimbs in their right place=>whiteraisinland... you get the idea.

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-01-20 6:12:20 PM|| 2005-01-20 6:12:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Certainly see the point Sobiesky.
But with 1.3 billion, a little hard for them to know exactly what everyones doing everywhere.
Remote China is not a civilized place. Easy to hide. And they appear to be travelers if they came up thru Mexico. The Chinese military would have no problem squashing any sizable terrorist threat within country. But Chinese who travel out is another scenario. There were Chinese Muslim fighters in Afghanistan when we first invaded in 2001.

Posted by tex 2005-01-20 6:32:14 PM|| 2005-01-20 6:32:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 But Chinese who travel out is another scenario.

Right you are there, tex.

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-01-20 6:34:53 PM|| 2005-01-20 6:34:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Thanks Sobie.
Im kinda new to this posting world.
A little hard to get what your thinking into words.

Posted by tex 2005-01-20 6:42:29 PM|| 2005-01-20 6:42:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Xinjiang, far western China and Uighur homeland, is rough and ragged in places, rundown in the cities, so has plenty of places for thugs to breed and hide. Han racism is legendary in that area, and the Han glommed the good jobs during Mao's day. Nobody ever accused Muslims of being a forgiving or tolerant people; they hate back with great gusto.

My friend who lived there for 5 years accidentally bought a case of canned pork, thinking he had pears. Fortunately for him, a Uighur friend pointed out the mistake before the rest of the Muslim neighborhood heard about it and worked up a snit about it.

Nestorian Christians gave the Uighurs their faith and an alphabet in about the 6th century. Muslims came along the Silk Road in the 13th Century and uprooted the Christians. Swedish missionaries reestablished a church in the 19th C. While Chiang Kai-Shek was fighting Mao and the Japanese, the Muslims massacred the Uighur Christian men and forced the women and children into Muslim families. Several surviors of this pogrom, now grown old, are the backbone of a severely pressured church in Uighur country.

Hui have been making noise about being an oppressed minority. They live on the other side of the bay from Shantung Province, I think. Both areas fertile ground for Islamofascism.

Posted by Mom 2005-01-20 6:45:17 PM|| 2005-01-20 6:45:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Thanks for history lesson Mom.
Hey Sobie, Mom explained it for me.

Posted by tex 2005-01-20 6:57:09 PM|| 2005-01-20 6:57:09 PM|| Front Page Top

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