Article

2004-10-05 Home Front: Culture Wars

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Steve 2004-10-05 12:23:29 PM|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 read it - sent a letter to the editor yesterday - used a red font

Posted by Frank G 2004-10-05 12:42:03 PM|| 2004-10-05 12:42:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Why even correct them? Doesn't that hurt their "self esteem"?
I'm an idiot, mom. But teacher says it's okay...

Posted by tu3031 2004-10-05 12:54:14 PM|| 2004-10-05 12:54:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Thats ok tu - I'm sure you can always get a job as a ~~domestic servant~~ assistant to the local holy liberal elite....

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-10-05 12:58:49 PM|| 2004-10-05 12:58:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 A friend of mine who teaches in high school says one of their science teachers walked out the other day, fed up with the bullshit and the pampered, lazy, precious little darlings who don't want to have to do any work, but expect straight "A"s in return.

Right in the middle of listening to one of his students whine about the homework being too hard, he just said "fuck this shit" and walked straight to the principal's office and quit on the spot.

I don't blame him.

Posted by Dave D. 2004-10-05 1:03:03 PM|| 2004-10-05 1:03:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 I've non-photo blue anxiety.

Posted by Shipman 2004-10-05 1:05:59 PM|| 2004-10-05 1:05:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I had papers in school that were awash in red ink (no surprise there)! Yes I was hurt, but I tried harder next time. Heck when I was writing evals in the military, I had a Chief that would 'bleed' all over my evals (and most others). It's called contrast people and it works.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2004-10-05 1:29:57 PM|| 2004-10-05 1:29:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Wouldn't want the losers, failures, and retards to feel bad about themselves.

Posted by BH 2004-10-05 2:52:02 PM|| 2004-10-05 2:52:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 The second half of the article is definitely over the top as far as self-esteem goes. BUT, I correct in blue if student writes in black and vice versa and have done this for the past 14 years. However, I didn't need to be told by any "color theory teacher". Did it myself when I saw the papers were being tossed away.

Posted by chicago mike 2004-10-05 4:26:27 PM|| 2004-10-05 4:26:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Chicago Mike-that's a workable solution.

These self esteem issues wouldn't even be in the picture if the educators themselves (not including you here, Mike) would learn to focus on teaching students to analyze, to conceptualize, to deduce, rather than propping up students' self-esteem by following current day half-baked educational trends that emphasize "feelings". Students HAVE self esteem, students can better their self esteem when they have the tools to attack the tasks at hand. (The hugs and feelings that come after they have performed for their own goals are genuine and grateful!) When students are taught with the fuzzy feeling method-("what are you feeling, express yourself"-but don't actually solve a problem, write a paper, construct a formula) and don't actually get put to the test on their knowledge, they DO become dependent on outside boosts for their self esteem. I couldn't stand the new age mentality of the K-12 teachers' environment, so I moved into adult and higher education, where students tend to have a more serious dedication to real goals.

Posted by jules 187 2004-10-05 5:01:13 PM|| 2004-10-05 5:01:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Sorry-should have said ..."where teachers create the environments that foster serious dedication to real goals.

Better go back to school, huh? ;)

Posted by jules 187 2004-10-05 5:04:49 PM|| 2004-10-05 5:04:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Okay. I have to add my not so humble opinion.

In early elementary classrooms, changing ink would actually be pretty darned appropriate. Children of the elementary age are in a stage of development where a sense of initiative and industry must overcome the competing pull of guilt and inferiority, so that a sense of purpose and competence can emerge (see link) . Students of this age do better when they can CONNECT personal accomplishment and learning. Red ink (commonly associated with police, firemen, stop signs, etc.) can be counter-productive, because students might feel like "they're in trouble" when they make a mistake and "disconnect," instead of seeing mistakes as part of the learning process. Additionally, effective teachers want students to learn the skill of analysis and self-correction-- as opposed to "you're 'bad' because you made a mistake," which shuts down students' desire to learn and achieve (ever had a disapproving, negative employer? It's like that.)

Fast forward to Jr. High. If middle-schoolers are still bothered by the red ink thing, it has to be from ealier bad associations. Other than that, it they're throwing papers away--well, that's middle-schoolers for ya! Identity formation is everything, and if it's "cool" to throw away papers--the whole pack will be doing it, red ink or not. They gotta learn what "loyalty" is, and going with the "group" is where they first start learning it.

High school? Red ink problems? If they haven't been taught to own and manage the learning process by this time, and are sweating corrections done in red ink, it's going to be a tough battle for any teacher. So, if changing the color of the ink is ALL a teacher has to do to help kids retain personal involvement in their learning--SO WHAT. I mean, do it.

The solution?: If teachers require STUDENTS to self-correct in red ink, early on, I don't think there will be any problems later.

As for all the mumbo-jumbo Southern California hype pseudo-spiritual new age nonsense in the article:

"Sheldon Brown, a visual arts professor at the University of California San Diego and director of the school's Center for Research in Computing and the Arts, said the negative reaction to grading in red is culturally embedded â a reaction more ingrained in the teachers than the students."

"Teachers may start out using purple, a color that they seem to think has less negative connotations, but in time, after kids have gone through 12 years of purple check marks, they're going to think purple is an awful color," Brown said.

Yep.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-10-05 5:35:45 PM|| 2004-10-05 5:35:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Quite frankly, I'm tired of all this self-esteem/sensitivity bullshit. Instead of simple red ink pen grading, failing papers get done in RED FELT-TIPPED MARKER PENS. Nice, big letters. Demoralized? Stressed? Too bad, try again.

I got red-lined when I was in school many moons ago, and I don't feel any ill effects from "damaged" self-esteem. (I didn't even know what the hell self-esteem was back then, and I didn't give a rat's ass about it either)

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-10-05 6:04:23 PM|| 2004-10-05 6:04:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 B-A-R back to sensitivity training and HR indoctrination camp for you!

Posted by Frank G 2004-10-05 6:08:17 PM|| 2004-10-05 6:08:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 ive seen all colors in my time but red still smells the best

Posted by half 2004-10-05 6:26:56 PM|| 2004-10-05 6:26:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Ex-lib-right with you on the Brown comment and with connecting personal accomplishment with learning.

It appears our opinions diverge radically on guilt and inferiority in elementary students (I don't believe they are born with those-they sometimes unfortunately learn those) and student self-correction, in the academic sense of self-correction. If you have outstanding students, they can mentor their fellow classmates, but can never supplant the teacher. The teacher IS the authority of the subject matter in his class (or should be anyway).

This tender touch trend started with the whole "there is no one right answer" bunch and was adopted by other educators in an attempt to lessen the hurt that students feel when they don't perform well.

In ESL, I saw that teachers bent over backwards to make sure that students could slip past certain benchmarks. Although it may comes from teachers' best intentions, it actually frontloads students for disappointment and surprise later, when they learn that the world DOESN'T bend over to make things easy for them, that you have to toughen up a bit to survive in the world. When we graded tests, some teachers softened the scores so that students would feel empowered. These same students were surprised when they weren't treated the same way when trying to gain entrance to college credit courses. I, and a few other teachers, graded students more realistically, which communicated to them exactly what level of performance would be expected of them in the real, workaday world.

Posted by jules 2 2004-10-05 6:45:37 PM|| 2004-10-05 6:45:37 PM|| Front Page Top

18:11 Mrs. Davis
18:07 Tony (UK)
17:47 Ari Tai
14:26 Anne Haight
13:15 Voidseeker
12:58 Dan Goodpasture
12:38 Dan Goodpasture
12:05 ed
11:59 BS Detector
10:40 richard mcenroe
09:53 Bill
09:41 Paul H.
02:02 JOHN KERRY SUCKS!!
00:57 Mr. Oni
23:35 Paul
23:04 Grunter
22:53 TShipman
21:34 richard mcenroe
20:21 Aris Katsaris
20:20 Aris Katsaris
20:13 Aris Katsaris
20:08 Bulldog
20:01 Bulldog
19:57 Aris Katsaris