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2004-07-15 Down Under
War justified and WMD might be found: Aussie PM
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Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-07-15 12:38:11 AM|| || Front Page|| [11132 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 What was it that caused all the important intelligence ops to be so lame? I'm still good with the outcome though.
Posted by Lucky 2004-07-15 1:24:11 AM||   2004-07-15 1:24:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Antiwar TROLL 2004-07-15 9:31:39 AM||   2004-07-15 9:31:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Been reading Dr. Seuss again, Antigum?
Posted by Dar  2004-07-15 9:44:46 AM||   2004-07-15 9:44:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Considering the ones we've found so far have been unmarked, we may well have walked by huge caches of the stuff.
Posted by eLarson 2004-07-15 11:10:05 AM||   2004-07-15 11:10:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Wha...? Much as I despise Antigum and her lunacy, I'm surprised to see her comment removed. She is not like that spamming bigot who posts totally OT and inflammatory drivel with the URL to his hate site. Isn't this going a little far?
Posted by Dar  2004-07-15 11:31:27 AM||   2004-07-15 11:31:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 What was it that caused all the important intelligence ops to be so lame?

My own guess, for what little it counts, is that this is what happens when you use intelligence gathering in order to justify a decision already made, rather than in order to actually determine your course of action.

There's also the conspiracy theory I've heard but like all conspiracy theories I would need more info in order to either believe or dismiss -- namely that the US and UK intelligence services were both hopelessly manipulated by double agents (working either as false informants or as actual agents) in order to throw USA against Iraq, with all the harm to the USA and good for Iran/Russia/China/Castro/the Martians, that this would entail.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-07-15 12:13:13 PM||   2004-07-15 12:13:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 good for Iran/Russia/China/Castro/the Martians

Care to elaborate? What good has come of the liberation of Iraq for the previously named countries?
Posted by Dragon Fly  2004-07-15 12:15:13 PM||   2004-07-15 12:15:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Dar,

Check the sink trap for the past week or so. As Fred commented, "Eeewwww, [you] eat with that mouth?!?"
Posted by trailing wife 2004-07-15 12:15:30 PM||   2004-07-15 12:15:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I'd block the bitches' IP if I was Fred.....
Posted by Frank G  2004-07-15 12:31:35 PM||   2004-07-15 12:31:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Dragon Fly> The Iranians, because they believe they'll dominate a Saddam-less Iraq, not to mention that USA attacking Iraq meant that USA would for years be too tied-up to attack *them*. That's obvious.

With the Russians the conspiracy theory was quite a bit more complex, but it mainly involved the fact that Iraq made Europe and USA mad at each other and caused divisions even inside Europe. ("Thus the highest realization of warfare is to attack the enemy's plans; next is to attack their alliances; next to attack their army; and the lowest is to attack their fortified cities. -- Sun Tzu." According to that theory therefore, Russia managed to attack the West's alliances, by making it attack Iraq's armies and fortified cities.)

Also the possibility of a UN administration for the new Iraq, which Russia would basically control.

But as I told you that's just a conspiracy theory and rather far-fetched also -- so I would need more in order to believe it.

"China/Castro" were jokes on my part.

The Martians are just in it for the brains.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-07-15 12:36:10 PM||   2004-07-15 12:36:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 The Iranians are punch drunk if they really believe that is possible. As for the Russians, well I am not that up to speed on them. However, I will say the rift between Europe and the US is hardly in shambles. So we lost a few shakey friends. We also made quite a few new ones in the East.
Posted by Dragon Fly  2004-07-15 12:40:21 PM||   2004-07-15 12:40:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Aris, there may be a better reason why western intel was, perhaps, incorrect. Saddam ran a paranoid murderous regime that was highly secretive and based upon clan ties. This type of organization is extraordinarily difficult to penetrate with agents in whom you have complete trust. There is also the difficulty of an Iraqi or an American of Iraqi descent filling this role. Could they penetrate to get the information? Would it be a death sentence? Who knows. I'm pretty sure that the odds would not be good.

Overall, western intelligence agencies human intelligence in key threat regions has been weakened significantly during the past 30 years. The result is that the intel we do have is poor or suspect and in hindsight often inaccurate. I don't think that a predisposition to kick Saddam out was what made the intel bad. No logical link there.
Posted by remote man 2004-07-15 12:41:12 PM||   2004-07-15 12:41:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 trailing wife--Thanks for the tip. I don't normally check the Sink Trap nor do I have time to read every article, much less every comment. I can certainly understand now why Antigum's crap was removed!
Posted by Dar  2004-07-15 12:48:23 PM||   2004-07-15 12:48:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#14  " . . . it would be a very rash person who said that Saddam Hussain never had weapons of mass destruction and they wouldn’t be discovered.’’

Quite.
Posted by ex-lib 2004-07-15 2:40:16 PM||   2004-07-15 2:40:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Martians in it for the brains?
Poor naif euro boy. The Martians are in it for the high quality garden hoses to be found near Kirkuk.
Posted by Shipman 2004-07-15 3:42:20 PM||   2004-07-15 3:42:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 heard they had a bumper crop of hoses and chamois this year
Posted by Frank G  2004-07-15 4:11:21 PM||   2004-07-15 4:11:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 The bulk of Saddam's WMD which could be shipped out of Iraq via truck, were, some weeks prior to the ground war starting. Syria paid Saddam & sons, some 31 million in U.S. currency & Euros.

Some of the WMD made there way to northern Lebanon under the control of Syrian-Hizballah 'overseers'.

This issue will only be resolved once the current dictatorships in Syria, and the Iranian backed & funded Hizballah infested rouge state in the Lebanon has be erased.

Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-07-15 5:56:12 PM||   2004-07-15 5:56:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Antiwar 2004-07-15 9:31:39 AM||   2004-07-15 9:31:39 AM|| Front Page Top

09:31 Antiwar
15:54 betamaxguillotine
04:10 Zenster
00:49 FlameBait93268
00:18 Phil Fraering
00:10 tu3031
00:01 tu3031
23:57 Taaaaraysa Kerry
23:53 FlameBait93268
23:44 Fred
23:43 Barbara Skolaut
23:42 Zenster
23:41 AzCat
23:38 Barbara Skolaut
23:36 tu3031
23:36 Barbara Skolaut
23:29 AzCat
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23:22 tu3031
23:21 Barbara Skolaut
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