Article

2004-04-07 Iraq-Jordan

12 Marines, 66 Iraqis Killed in Battles Yesterday (summary)

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Steve White 2004-04-07 12:08:01 AM|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Good, good so far ... the kill ratio is about right, except I wasn't expecting that dozen to die in one assault on Ramadi ... what the hell happened there?

Posted by Edward Yee 2004-04-07 12:28:44 AM|| [http://edwardyee.fanworks.net] 2004-04-07 12:28:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I turned on the Fox news channel to see the "conservative" commentator Bill O'Reilly categorizing this as a "new war" and basically portraying this as a widespread general uprising. He said the administration said that the Shi'ites would welcome us and this was proof they weren't (although I think, like many here, that if the majority of the Iraqis really agreed with the insurgents things would have gone much differently today).

The initial casualty reports were something like 130, but now it's down to a tenth or so as much, but they're interpreting events as if the first number were right.

As I said yesterday, the timing of the attacks doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't look like it's planned to maximum effect. So either they have this really deep incomprehensible plan or they're stupid.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-04-07 12:44:07 AM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2004-04-07 12:44:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Or they're shooting their wad way too early.

Fearing a U.S. move to arrest him, al-Sadr on Tuesday left a fortress-like mosque in the city of Kufa,

I think he ought to be worried about an Iraqi moved to whack him. I'm imagining Sistani somewhere musing "This al-Sadr kid... "he's dead to me."

Posted by eLarson 2004-04-07 12:51:39 AM|| 2004-04-07 12:51:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 I'm imagining Sistani somewhere musing "This al-Sadr kid... "he's dead to me."

"Will no one rid me of this meddlesome mullah?"

Posted by Steve White 2004-04-07 1:02:47 AM|| 2004-04-07 1:02:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Perhaps this?

Posted by .com 2004-04-07 1:14:51 AM|| 2004-04-07 1:14:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 No, the timing is just about right for al-Sadr. There is a huge Muslim holiday coming up on Friday with hundreds of thousands of the faithful thronging the street of Najaf. How could his timing be any better?

Providing, of course, that he makes it to Friday.

Posted by Traveller 2004-04-07 2:00:07 AM|| 2004-04-07 2:00:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Trav - And that might take some doing - a stunt like he pulled with the Poles yesterday (Cue theme music from Twilight Zone) will get his big bad Mobile (in cars) Infantry shot to shit.

Posted by .com 2004-04-07 2:21:16 AM|| 2004-04-07 2:21:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 A couple of Questions:

1. Why didn't the Poles shoot up those Mobile Cadre` of his? (This is why it is wise that I have no command in Iraq, not even a tiny squad...because I'd light 'em up. But that's just good 'ol liberal genocidal me...lol)

2. It is my understand that al-Sadr has left the Mosque in Najaf for his office, which is only a block of so from where Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani's residence is. It may be difficult to get at al-Sadr w/o hitting Sistani. Hummmmm.

Posted by Traveller 2004-04-07 2:41:56 AM|| 2004-04-07 2:41:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#9
One more pisser if you don't mind. If Sadr was holed up in the al-Kufah mosque, south of Najaf only a day ago, or 2 depending on how you're counting your days, Just how did he make his way up to Najaf? Isn't anyone watching him? This move from the al-Kufah mosque to Najaf proper whould have seemed to have been a very good oppertunity to "hit," him personally.

Posted by Traveller 2004-04-07 2:48:29 AM|| 2004-04-07 2:48:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 I still think Ted Kennedy gave the Islamotwerps the clandestine "go ahead." But "George Bush's Vietnam," as TK puts it, isn't going to be anything of the sort. Sorry Teddy--you miscalculated again. It's the Democratic party that's in the back of the car this time . . .

Posted by ex-lib 2004-04-07 3:01:08 AM|| 2004-04-07 3:01:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Poles didnt shoot because the islamic bastards had women and children in the vehicles as shields.

That's some religion they have over there, the Shia fundamentalists, hiding and using children as bullet stoppers.

The Iranians are behind this - theu HEzbollah and the IRG. We need to do some deep covert raids against the IRG compounds and blow up their training areas and kill some of their leadership. No safe sanctuary across the border for these hate filled asses.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-04-07 9:15:07 AM|| 2004-04-07 9:15:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Strategic summary so far:
1. Sunni Tigris Valley
A. Fallujah - USMC has raided city center, has control over peripheral sections of city, is making progress toward city center - hostiles taking heaving casualties
B. Ramadi - remains under USMC control.
2. Baghdad - Streets of Sadr City, Shouala, Adamiyah largely under insurgent control. Coalition forces retain control of police stations,etc. Rest of city remains firmly under coalition control
3. South -
A. Kufa, Najaf, Kut under Mehdi army control, but with large coalition presence on outskirts of Najaf and Kut
B. Nassiriyah, Amara remain under coalition control, but with large scale fighting
C. Karbala bitterly contested
D. Shiite rural areas relatively quiet.

Iraqi police, pro-SCIRI militias, largely remaining neutral. No word of further defections by ICDC. Report yesterday that ICDC was assisting USMC in Fallujah.

Al Sadr location - presumed to be in central Najaf (didnt i say that staying in Kufa made no sense?)
Sistani location - presumed to be in central Najaf. Effectively under house arrest by Mehdi army??????
IGC largely supporting coalition efforts, but SCIRI warning against arrest of clerics.
US forces being actively assisted by Brits, Poles, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Italians, Salvadorans. Spaniards?

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-07 9:57:24 AM|| 2004-04-07 9:57:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Fox news on situation in Ramadi
The citizens of Ramadi remained in their homes during fighting there, the statement said. Several Iraqis called the coalition tip line to help identify, isolate and combat the insurgents, a U.S. military statement said.

When the fighting subsided, the statement said, Ramadi remained under the supervision of the governor of the province, the chief of police and the Iraqi security forces.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-07 10:24:53 AM|| 2004-04-07 10:24:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 With any luck, our earlier hands-off approach to Fallujah tempted al Dhouri & the other remaining cards to concentrate most of their forces there. Whether planned or not, this localized version of the "flytrap" strategy may have the benefit of concentrating the remaining fight against the insurgancy into the relatively smaller area around the city.

Sadr appears to have taken advantage of the situation to initiate his rebellion, using the old "while they're distracted, I'll grab what I can" approach. Unfortunately for him and his militia, we aren't all that distracted -- and the corpse abuse in Fallujah has actually made it easier to take harsh actions against the militias.

Realistically, getting these battles over with before June is a necessary condition for a successful handover to actually take place.

Posted by snellenr 2004-04-07 12:42:15 PM|| 2004-04-07 12:42:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Whoa - the timeline is the key:
1) The arrest Warrant for Sadr was issued months ago - and Sadr was aware of it - so he's been on his guard for some time

2) We precipitated the action phase of the stalemate when we shut down Sadr's newspaper

3) Then the Spaniards arrested Sadr's lieutenant and they began demonstrating

4) I think the Fallujah guys, looking at Sadr and at the calendar decided to take next target of opportunity - that was the contractors - and we have the spectacle

5) While we prepped for Fallujah, Sadr's guys opened fire on the Spanish compound and elsewhere; Blackwater guys make their stand defending CPA HQ (Najaf, IIRC)

6) We start Fallujah Opn and they hit Ramadi in best-run surprise attack we've seen since April - and it cost them dearly, but us dearly, as well; across South and in Baghdad they attack - rather ineffectively, IMHO - certainly nothing as good as the Ramadi guys who came in organized waves - just like we praticed in Basic Training

Please correct as needed and let's keep a clean copy of this going in the major "action" thread each day. It will help IMMENSELY in keeping everything in perspective.

FRED - wanna keep the official version for us so we're all on the same page each day? Maybe even make it a regular article pre-posted each day. This will go on for the next 85 days or until they're wiped out. The timeline will be invaluable.

Just a suggestion.

Posted by .com 2004-04-07 1:00:45 PM|| 2004-04-07 1:00:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I second dot coms suggestion.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-07 1:05:45 PM|| 2004-04-07 1:05:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 AFP now confirms Debka, that USMC is at center of Fallujah.

Also reports Nassiriyah calm. Deal between Italian troops and Iraqi Police. IP will secure city, if they are not successful within specified time, Italians go back in.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-07 1:19:57 PM|| 2004-04-07 1:19:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 CNN now reports a Col. Abrams as saying 1st Armored and 1st Cav both focusing on Sadr City, where about 3000 fighters from Mehdi army are located.

My impression is that they intend to leave Sadr alone in Najaf for a few days, turn him into an obvious lose before going after him. Kill him now, hes a martyr, kill his thugs first, hes just a pathetic has been. Given US troops are best for offensive action, and US troops start in Baghdad, and repositioning troops will lose valuable time, you start by focusing on Baghdad, while coalition troops fight defensively in southern cities. Stronger coalition forces can be more agressive than the weaker ones. Finish up Baghdad (as we speak???) than shift forces to South - join Poles in cleaning up Karbala, then Kut, Kufa, leave Najaf for last. Use the best Iraqi units you've got for final assault in Najaf.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-07 1:52:59 PM|| 2004-04-07 1:52:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 LH - Solid logical efficient plan, IMHO. And I'll lay solid odds that's what they'll come up with, too. Great minds thinking alike!

Posted by .com 2004-04-07 1:56:12 PM|| 2004-04-07 1:56:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 ***********************
FRED - Did you see #15?
***********************

(Apologies - just trying to get your attn!)

Posted by .com 2004-04-07 2:03:25 PM|| 2004-04-07 2:03:25 PM|| Front Page Top

19:40 cingold
13:20 Dcreeper
12:47 Dcreeper
00:22 ex-lib
21:53 FED UP
15:01 Dcreeper
14:04 ex-lib
12:55 Dcreeper
10:08 ex-lib
07:09 Shipman
02:31 Dcreeper
01:53 .com
01:30 Super Hose
01:18 Super Hose
01:11 Mark Espinola
00:50 Zenster
00:45 ex-lib
00:37 Anonymous2U
00:11 ZoGg
23:59 GK
23:50 Phil Fraering
23:44 RWV
23:18 Not Mike Moore
23:15 Super Hose