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2004-03-20 Europe
News Flash: Americans Not Genetically Stupid
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Posted by Mr. Davis 2004-03-20 7:04:22 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Does jock itch ever go away on its own?
Posted by Anonymous 2004-3-20 8:54:41 AM|| [http://AmericanDefenseLeague.com#cattle]  2004-3-20 8:54:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 "The idea of establishing Democracy there was too naïve."

I don't know about that; it worked just fine in Germany and Japan, to the point where it sometimes seems that we did too good a job pacifying them.

I don't see what we are trying in Iraq as "naïve"; I see it as an experiment.

The experiment may succeed in producing a peaceful Iraqi state, in which case it will demonstrate that it is, in fact, possible to de-toxify Arab society.

Or it may fail; and if it fails in Iraq--arguably the most fertile ground for reform--we will then know not to bother trying democratization in the future, in other Arab states, in response to continued attacks.

I consider there are four kinds of wars: wars of liberation and/or reformation (i.e., what we are doing right now in Iraq and Afghanistan), punitive wars (bust in someplace, kick some ass, and then leave), wars of conquest (go in to take something that doesn't belong to you), and wars of annihilation ("kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out).

God have mercy on the Arabs' souls if, because we give up on the work we are engaged in now, we end up palming off the Islamofascism problem onto our grandchildren.

Because they may very well decide to just push the damn button and turn the whole of the Arab world into a sea of radioactive glass. And I DON'T want them to do that.
Posted by Dave D.  2004-3-20 8:57:30 AM||   2004-3-20 8:57:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Dave D. nice comeback: "(I dunno) it worked just fine in Germany". I will use that.

Somebody tell me WTF "pathos of freedom" means ? Or is not understanding that a sign that I need to get checked for the stupid gene in question ?
Posted by Carl in NH 2004-3-20 9:08:39 AM||   2004-3-20 9:08:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 No, this guy hits the administration's main error pretty much on the head: They assumed that they were taking over a basically functioning country that only needed a change of leadership instead of a basketcase needing a total overhaul.
Posted by Hiryu 2004-3-20 9:20:45 AM||   2004-3-20 9:20:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 I don't know, maybe the stupid gene, is less related to "IQ" and more like eye or hair color. In light of the Spanish election, support of Chiraq, Iraqi's protesting "occupation", widespread sucking up of BBC and NPR and AJ's BS..not to mention our own polls supporting Kerry, the biggest sleeze that ever oozed out of the earth...... maybe the stupid gene, though not as prevalent here as in Europe, is passed down as a recessive gene among the human race in general.

That 50% of humans seem to have it worldwide, lends ample support to Darwin, in my mind.
Posted by B 2004-3-20 9:40:43 AM||   2004-3-20 9:40:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 One of the most difficult, improbable accomplishments in the 20th Century was the USA's establishment of democracy in Germany.
Posted by Mike Sylwester  2004-3-20 11:16:27 AM||   2004-3-20 11:16:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 While the article raises some valid points it's off the mark with that "genetic" thing. I can't remember anyone here in Germany having said that Americans are "genetically stupid" (ok I havent checked out the Neonazis).

Hiryu, you should have seen East Germany before 1989.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-3-20 12:03:15 PM||   2004-3-20 12:03:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 TGA -- there are quotes from colonial times to today from Europeans stating that, somehow, living in the Americas leads to stunting, lower intelligence, etc. It's one of the major threads of anti-Americanism, that we're mongrels and somehow less human than Europeans.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-3-20 1:12:14 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2004-3-20 1:12:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Robert Crawford, these are Nazi quotes, I haven't heard any of these in the last decades except from Neonazis.

Btw, the biggest "mongrels" are the Europeans... So it would not be an insult for me.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-3-20 1:24:09 PM||   2004-3-20 1:24:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 RC, That may be one of the bases for anti-Americanism, but not one I hear stated, at least nowadays. Just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean it's not operating in the dark recessess of some peoples' minds, or even, perhaps, subconsciously. There may be parts of Europe where such sentiments are openly expressed. Aris? I've read there's more racism in Greece than other places in Europe...
Posted by Bulldog  2004-3-20 1:31:16 PM||   2004-3-20 1:31:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 No, TGA, those quotes go back to at least the 1700s and as recent as the 1990s. I wish I could find the article I read them in, but it's been a while since I read it.

And, really, you're deluding yourself if you think that attitude doesn't exist in Europe today. Just listen to all the comments about the US being "less mature" than Europe; it's the same damned crap, dressed up to avoid sounding like the bigotry it is.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-3-20 1:32:37 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2004-3-20 1:32:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#12  A genealogy of anti-Americanism
Posted by ed 2004-3-20 1:40:27 PM||   2004-3-20 1:40:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Does jock itch ever go away on its own?
Do you?
Posted by Jen  2004-3-20 2:19:14 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-3-20 2:19:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 It may be a translation error. Maybe the word he used was more like "congenitally". Are they similar in German?

I have certainly heard enough Europeans (and Australians) express the opinon that, where the US is not outright malicious, it is stupid and bumbling. I don't know how they account for our strength and influence, in that case.

Actually, on 9/23/01, Bryan Appleyard wrote an article for the Times (of London) on this point. I'm too lazy to switch to the other browser to embed the URL (because this STILL doesn't WORK under Netscape for no reason I can imagine), so here it is:

http://www.mwarrior.com/WhyhateAmerica.htm

Excerpt:

The idea was that America was this big, blundering lummox and we were these terribly refined deep thinkers. Precisely the same attitude inspires the raised eyebrows and condescending tut-tutting of leftish dinner party opinion. They're so naïve, say the chatterers, so innocent - and this, sadly, leads them to do such terrible things...

The roots of this are obvious. We want the bully to be thick for the same reason as we want the beautiful model to be thick. We can't bear the possibility of somebody having strength or beauty as well as brains.

Worth a read.
Posted by Angie Schultz 2004-3-20 2:21:28 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com]  2004-3-20 2:21:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 A boook about antiamericanism tells that when Franlin went to France to negociate the alliance he was invited to a dinner where someone kept telling that properties in American soil and climate prevented the raising of healthy people so Americans had to be short. At this point Franklin had his followers measure aginst the French and it was found that the shortest American was taller than the tallest French.
Posted by JFM  2004-3-20 2:32:43 PM||   2004-3-20 2:32:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Bulldog> I've indeed heard the occasional Greek voicing racist-sounding (to me atleast) disparaging-meant comments that the Americans don't have a nation, that they're nothing but an amalgation of nations.

The same people voicing it would probably also hold delusions about the "racial purity" of Modern Greeks.

But it's rare I think, comparatively. And I've never seen it expressed in connection to intelligence or any other physical or mental attribute. Connected to lack of culture (or something), perhaps.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-3-20 2:35:41 PM||   2004-3-20 2:35:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 I don't think it's rare at all, at least not in Western Europe.
The treatment that President Bush gets in the foreign press--"Bush is a dumb cowboy"--is emblematic of all of us.
Even the once universally-loved Third Way Boy Clinton is seen as stupid because he got caught behaving badly and the rotten multilateral deals he got the US into with other countries were always a case of the "joke's on you, Uncle Sam," like letting the US carry the water for the whole Kosovo/Bosnia problem.
Posted by Jen  2004-3-20 3:14:45 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-3-20 3:14:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 One of the most difficult, improbable accomplishments in the 20th Century was the USA's establishment of democracy in Germany.

An astonishing statement! Germany has a long history of democracy and was considerably in advance of most other European countries in having an universal male franchise and a male franchise.
Posted by phil_b 2004-3-20 3:20:09 PM||   2004-3-20 3:20:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 The last 2 words should read 'female franchise' And incidentally Germany was a year ahead of the USA at the Federal level in this respect.
Posted by phil_b 2004-3-20 3:23:43 PM||   2004-3-20 3:23:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 "Die Amerikaner sind ja - anders als viele hier zu denken scheinen - nicht genetisch dumm, und verfügen über beträchtlichen strategischen Verstand."

Nope, he clearly says "not genetically dumb, other as many here seem to believe"

Well first Mr Medienkritik seems to confuse "most" with "many"... and then the whole argument is flawed, as I don't remember having read anything like that in the German media. And I read a lot.

I must say that Mr Medienkritik annoys me a bit with his crusade against "the" German media (as if it were a block of biased leftist anti_american journalists). If you read a bit you'll find about avery opinion you could possibly look for, even in the Spiegel. You can prove anything with cherry picking.

It's not true that Iraq has only be potrayed negatively. You read about positive developments there all the time. But of course exploding hotels will carry the day anytime. Not only in the German media.

So there may be a lot of criticism of America and it may be partly anti-American... but Robert Crawford, I challenge you to find me a recent quote (more recent than Heidegger, please) other than in some neonazi publication that confirms the "mongrel claims".

It's true that quite a few people would label Americans as "naive" but that's a very different story.

Let's not forget that it has been Donald Rumsfeld who qualified European nations like Italy and Spain as "new" and Germany and France" as old Europe. (Did Spain grow old so fast?)

Stereotypes, wherever they come from, are truly dumb.

Btw did American media report the fact that the German government has asked Mr Zapatero to stop his ferocious criticism of the U.S. policy (and Bush)?
Posted by True German Ally 2004-3-20 3:34:17 PM||   2004-3-20 3:34:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 TGA, haven't seen any yet, but Viellen Danke if they have!
Zappy hasn't been there a week, but all of his rhetoric is scary;
he needs someone to tell him to cool his Marxist jets!
Posted by Jen  2004-3-20 3:46:18 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-3-20 3:46:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Jen, if Schroeder could learn something, Zappy can, too.

You may have noticed too that Mr Villepin had to mouth off, again, while the German government has been notably quiet about Iraq.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-3-20 3:57:04 PM||   2004-3-20 3:57:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 TGA,

Perhaps you should frequent Medienkritik as well. Another informed perspective is always appreciated.
Posted by Mr. Davis 2004-3-20 4:34:55 PM||   2004-3-20 4:34:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Robert Crawford, I challenge you to find me a recent quote (more recent than Heidegger, please) other than in some neonazi publication that confirms the "mongrel claims".

How about this story itself? Why does Schmid find it necessary to state that Americans are not genetically stupid? Perhaps because he's heard that expressed from a few of the people he's addressing?
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-3-20 5:32:54 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2004-3-20 5:32:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 "It's one of the major threads of anti-Americanism, that we're mongrels and somehow less human than Europeans."

If it's one of the "major threads" I think it should be possible to come up with something a bit more convincing than with things Mr Schmid might have heard or not?

If I posted a sentence like this: "Other than many people seem to believe Mr Crawford is NOT a KGB agent..." wouldn't you say, hey, wait a while, WHO thinks this and where does he live?
Posted by True German Ally 2004-3-20 5:55:28 PM||   2004-3-20 5:55:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Let's not forget that it has been Donald Rumsfeld who qualified European nations like Italy and Spain as "new" and Germany and France" as old Europe.

Funny, but I thought Rumsfeld was refering to Eastern European nations and not Spain and Italy. Calling Italy or Spain "new" Europe would be dumb. And I don't think Rumsfeld is dumb.
Posted by Rafael 2004-3-20 6:23:35 PM||   2004-3-20 6:23:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Same thing with the statement "with us, or against us". Bush wasn't refering to Europe, because at that time everyone thought Europe was already with us. Whats with these misinterpretations on the European side? Makes me think the bitter antagonism towards the US existed long before Iraq and 9-11.
Posted by Rafael 2004-3-20 6:27:08 PM||   2004-3-20 6:27:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 If it were not an issue, he would not feel the need to address it. Otherwise, sorry, I don't have the resources or interest to dig deeper into the nature of modern European anti-American bigotry.

If that makes you dismiss my point, fine.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-3-20 6:27:25 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2004-3-20 6:27:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Robert Crawford, if it were an issue I would know about it.

Rafael, I had the opportunity to ask Rumsfeld about this :-)
Posted by True German Ally 2004-3-20 7:02:09 PM||   2004-3-20 7:02:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 I remember reports of polls in Germany from a year ago ... some 1/3 of Germans said that if WMD were found they would believe it was planted by the CIA.

There truly is a smug strain in German culture, combined with a huge degree of risk aversion. I say that as someone who married into a German family. ;-)

However, TGA's larger point is worth keeping in mind. It's a mistake to see relationships with Germany or other European countries in simple black and white terms. Germany is not France.
Posted by rkb  2004-3-20 7:08:18 PM||   2004-3-20 7:08:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 I had the opportunity to ask Rumsfeld about this...

AND?? What did he say? Or did you mean you had the opportunity, and didn't take it?

I swear, you and Old Spook, always with the teasing.
Posted by Angie Schultz 2004-3-20 7:09:08 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com]  2004-3-20 7:09:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Germany is not France.

For now
Posted by Mr. Davis 2004-3-20 7:31:52 PM||   2004-3-20 7:31:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 We may not be smart, but we're rich, handsome and can dance good.
Posted by Shipman 2004-3-20 8:40:39 PM||   2004-3-20 8:40:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 You rate the world wide incidence of the "Stupid Gene" fare too low.

At some level 100% the members of the human race are stupid.

Functionaly stupid, at least %60.
Posted by 3dc 2004-3-20 8:42:43 PM||   2004-3-20 8:42:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 We are a mongrel race. In many case that is our strength. The residents of the former Yugoslavia had every opportunity to blend cultures and assimilate into a successful nation. They forwent the opportunity and now live in a bombed out economic bone-yard while Tiger Woods works on the mechanics of his swing and Halle Berry is reading her next script.
Posted by Super Hose  2004-3-20 9:32:28 PM||   2004-3-20 9:32:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Let's remember that we went into two wars pretty quickly after the Bush administration began. American society is amazingly capable of engaging in self-criticism and assimilating lessons learned into the next plan. And it has been quite a few decades since we engaged in a nation-building project of this scale. Infrastructure repair used to involve erecting hospitals, bulldozing rubble, removing unexploded ordnance and slapping up some bridges.

I sense a cautiousness on the part of the administration to take accept dissident opinion as fact with respect to Iran, Syria, Venezuela and less so in North Korea. I also see an exercise of restraint with respect to American military action to resolve all these differing international situations militarily.
With respect to North Korea, especially, we are forcing local stake-holders to drive the problem rather than ride piggy-back on our action.

If we do go into one of these countries, look for us to have done an excellent job on identifying sources and stockpiling items for reinforcing/improving infrastructure (like power production.)
Posted by Super Hose  2004-3-20 9:48:55 PM||   2004-3-20 9:48:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Btw did American media report the fact that the German government has asked Mr Zapatero to stop his ferocious criticism of the U.S. policy (and Bush)?

No, they haven't, as far as I can tell. They're much too busy covering the 'anniversary protests'.
Posted by Pappy 2004-3-20 10:46:25 PM||   2004-3-20 10:46:25 PM|| Front Page Top

01:15 OldeForce
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