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2004-10-01 Home Front: Politix

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Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-10-01 3:25:22 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Kerry's kinda like my golf game some days, he's all over the freaking place!

To my knowledge, Sawyer, is the first MSM entity to call Johnny boy on his erratic, wait let me check wind direction first, stance on Iraq.

Shoot if the media would do it's damned job only 5% of the time this election would already be over. But alas, the MSM will be calling Kerry the "come back kid" or something stupid like that.

I must admit as a Bush supporter that I was dissapointed in W's performance last night. He didn't step on his Johnson or anything but he didn't seem sharp and really on his game either. To bad, he could have dealt Kerry a death blow with a better showing.

Posted by RJB in JC MO 2004-10-01 5:18:29 AM|| 2004-10-01 5:18:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 If Kerry's goal last night was to show that he's not a flashback-suffering, golddigging schizo warHeRoSLASHWarCRImiNal, then he succeeded.

But if his goal was to put forward intelligent, serious policy prescriptions for Iraq, Iran and North Korea, he failed utterly. The man spoke clearly and fluently, but what he actually said, in many cases, was fatuous.

The most asinine little fairy tale he repeated-- and he's been slapped down again and again on this by the Euros and by US leftists themselves-- was the one about how "Help is on the way" from France and Germany in the form of soldiers in Iraq. Again, idiocy delivered in a steady voice, a la Ted Baxter. And there was also the foolishness about bargaining with the mullahs, and the stupidity of unilaterally throwing away the bunker-buster missile that Clinton's team used to scare Khaddafi in 1996 and deter him from continuing with his own underground nuclear program.

EARTH TO KERRY: EUROPEAN "HELP" IS NOT "ON THE WAY". The lefties know it, the French Germans Belgians Swiss Spanish Dutch and Danes know it, your own people know it. So stop insulting everyone's intelligence and try another tack, surfer dude.

And do not f*** with our deterrent by throwing away our bunker-busting missiles. It's not 1983, and you're not Helen Caldicott.

Posted by lex 2004-10-01 6:01:58 AM|| 2004-10-01 6:01:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#3

Sky TV just had a panel 'discussion' on the debate featuring none other than Maureen Dowd and some British professor who soon established his credentials as a Loony Leftist. Dowd, predictably, spoke about the hormonal appeal Bush generally has for the ladies, saying he hadn't cracked it this time. I was pissed-off enough about this outrageous crap and lack of even a pretense of balance in the selection of the panelists to e-mail Sky a short, sharp letter. It's disapointing. Sky is usually more even-handed than CNN or BBC. Not this time, although the host did try to get some sense out of the panelists with some pertinent questions - which they soon turned into propagandist mush.

Kerry is a real chameleon:

You don't find too many like John Kerry
He can be stern or be merry
Or pompous or sad
Or obnoxious or mad
whatever might gain him the presidency

This was the headline and the first sentence of an editorial in today's New York Times:

THE FIRST DEBATE
"This campaign was so hungry for real discussion and substance that even a format controlled by handlers and spin doctors seemed like a breath of fresh air."

The NYT complaining about SPIN? Welcome to our Brave New World.

Posted by Bryan 2004-10-01 6:37:39 AM|| 2004-10-01 6:37:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 The exchange on North Korea was instructive. John Kerry would place North Korea on an even par with the United States and snub other interested parties in the region. On one hand he demands we form alliances and when confronted by one he runs away from it.

Posted by Douglas De Bono 2004-10-01 8:04:18 AM|| [http://www.DouglasDeBono.com] 2004-10-01 8:04:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Bush's comments were based on what he has done and what he will do.

Kerry's comments were based on lies, spin and the war position d'jour. There are 30 days for Bush side to educate the public that his words and his deeds don't match.

Posted by 2b 2004-10-01 8:20:56 AM|| 2004-10-01 8:20:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 my take:

neither candidate did well enough to please their own side, or badly enough to please their opponents.

Posted by 2b 2004-10-01 8:23:10 AM|| 2004-10-01 8:23:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 I suppose that ripping Kerry's heart out would not be presidential, but I certainly had the urge when he spun bilateral on North Korea after spinning multilateral on everything else. My advice to all of you: SwiftVets. I just hit the $50 button.

Posted by Tom 2004-10-01 8:31:13 AM|| 2004-10-01 8:31:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 I saw the debates last night. I thought Kerry was shown to be the "I'll do anything to be president--really I will" type of guy he is, and that he couldn't ever be anything but a complete disastaster with more power, but three polls are showing that Kerry came out ahead. Can somebody explain this to me?

I'll tell you what else I don't like (from AP News):

"Sen. John McCain, the Arizona Republican who informally advised Bush on how to debate his friend and Senate colleague, told reporters in Miami on Friday that the debate was probably Kerry's "brightest moment" in the last six weeks. "He presented himself well, John did," McCain said. "Kerry came out slugging."

Some "friend."

John McCain is just like Kerry--he betrayed men to the enemy and they still hate him for it--he's just a hell of a lot better at covering his tracks. So I'm not surprised, just thinking that because McCain touts his b.s. and claim "Republican, Republican!" that people will blindly go along with it, including the President.

Thanks DDB, lex, RJB--but will somebody PLEASE tell me why most Americans still don't get it. Kerry is a loser and, to me at least, that's as plain as day.

Help.

--a very depressed ex-lib

Posted by ex-lib 2004-10-01 9:52:33 AM|| 2004-10-01 9:52:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 My "formerly ABB, now he'll decide on Election Day who he hates less" husband pronounced last night's debate a Bush win, and wondered why such a large percentage of questions were about Iraq, when relations with Europe, Asia and Mexico are also important to revealing each candidate's foreign policy stance. He particularly wanted to hear Kerry respond to the Chirac/Schroeder announcement that they would not send troops regardless who wins in November -- he'd heard about it on NPR(!!).

As for the lopsided polls, DU posted hotlinks to about 20 of them last night...so unless the polls were not on the internet, there is no way they could have been untainted.

So please don't be depressed, ex-lib, think of them as DU propaganda, not factual information, 'k? In about a week the professional poll results will come out, and then we'll see something closer to reality. In the meantime, take a couple of deep breaths, do at least 20 minutes of aerobic exercise daily to keep your seratonin levels up, and remember that there are two more debates wherein Kerry and Edwards can demonstrate how unfit for command they really are.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-10-01 10:35:17 AM|| 2004-10-01 10:35:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 I saw the debate and it was obvious that The President did a better job as a speaker and in clearly explaining his position. Kerry looked and spoke only to the moderator but President Bush looked into the camera and into the audience when he spoke showing confidence and honesty. To me the President clearly showed his position that America's leadership should be steadfast and not wavering in order for our troops, the Iraq government and other countries to have confidence in us. Our soldiers and other countries will not listen, believe or follow a leader that is undecisive and flip-flops as special intrest groups arrest his agenda. The liberal news media will stop at nothing in trying to make scary Kerry look better than he does. Even the cameraman and producer tried to show side shots of Kerry to make him appear as if he was talking to the audience rather than the moderator where he almost never looked away. While President Bush's camera position would not change, Kerry's camerman even tried to raise Kerry's statue during side by side shots, raising his image slightly higher than President Bush's image in order to project dominance. The camerman for Kerry would slightly move the camera up and down to try to disguise this posturing as a camera shot adjustment.
The Spin after the debate was all completely liberal bias. I think the Dims were so excited that FrankenKerry didnt completey blow it with a Vietnam rant that they projected him the winner.
President Bush stayed on target, answered the questions directly and his judgement has my confidence.

Posted by Johnnie Bartlette 2004-10-01 10:52:56 AM|| 2004-10-01 10:52:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 ex-lib: Sen. John McCain, the Arizona Republican who informally advised Bush on how to debate his friend and Senate colleague, told reporters in Miami on Friday that the debate was probably Kerry's "brightest moment" in the last six weeks. "He presented himself well, John did," McCain said. "Kerry came out slugging."

McCain isn't the problem. He hasn't said anything bad about Kerry, but Kerry is his friend. You can't be expected to insult someone just because he's on the other side of the political spectrum. Chuck Hagel and Dick Lugar are the guys who really need to stop grandstanding. Their remarks about Iraq were most unhelpful. McCain, by contrast, has been publicly supportive and only mildly critical about the situation in Iraq. If GWB loses this election, he can credit Lugar's and Hagel's efforts in Kerry's behalf.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-10-01 11:06:19 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-10-01 11:06:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Sorry, ZF. But I still don't trust McCain AT ALL, and I do think he works behind the scenes against the President and the Republican party (and Rush agrees with me). Besides, I talked for over an hour with the Vietnam Vets who served with McCain and they hate him for the same reasons the swiftboat vets hate Kerry.

Johnnie Bartlette: I really liked your post. My background in in broadcast news, and I absolutely hate what the media does with camera on these things--and, of course, they know what they're doing. Last night I was watching the debates on c-span internet streaming video, and all they showed was a small split screen the entire time. Fascinating, though, that Kerry was "attached" to the moderator: "help me, help me." He really is a very insecure man. I'll be they had to do a lot with make-up to cover up that fake tan, too. But it was a little too gray, I thought. And did you notice that Kerry lingered with Teresa on stage, after the Bush family had left, so they could get a camera/sound "op" of people cheering for them. Too much.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-10-01 12:08:03 PM|| 2004-10-01 12:08:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Quit sweating, dudes. Mondale dusted Reagan in their first debate, and it meant f***-all to the election results. I remember the same brief exhilaration in the mOndale camp after that debate-- 'twas nothing more than the realization that their guy had a pulse after all.

The only way that a debate matters is if a candidate slips on a banana peel. You don't win a debate; you only lose one. Bush didn't lose this one. It was if anything a very marginal, hari's-breadth win for Kerry. Which only means that Kerry's not finished yet.

If unlike me you live in a swing state, I'd advise y'all to get away from the computer, walk over to your nearest Bush-Cheney office, and start hitting the phones and/or pavement.

Turnout, esp in OH PA FL MO CO WV and NM, will win this thing. So get going.

Posted by lex 2004-10-01 12:37:34 PM|| 2004-10-01 12:37:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 This has been a much-needed wake-up call. A bit like the Yankees losing the first game of a series with Oakland. Complacency is (was) far and away the Bush team's greatest enemy.

The fact is that Bush is a flawed candidate whose lead is explained almost entirely by the fact that Kerry is even worse. Expecting Kerry to fall on his face is not a winning campaign strategy.

So if you want to win this thing, move beyond the Swiftie scare stuff and attack Kerry on the tough policy choices that lie ahead:

1) European "Help" is NOT "on the way"

2) Bunker-buster bombs are the only really effective stick we can waive at the mullahs-- it would be suicidal to scrap them

3) Kerry has no clue about North Korea

Posted by lex 2004-10-01 12:43:22 PM|| 2004-10-01 12:43:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I worried about passing my global test...

You know the old saying, "Be there or be square!"

Posted by BigEd 2004-10-01 12:58:47 PM|| 2004-10-01 12:58:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I see the first debate as one that Bush could have won. Kerry did come across better composed, serious, focused, but he made points Bush failed to rip into.

Bush stuck far too much with his well known "easy to remember" talking points and didn't follow Kerry's arguments.

I give you a few reply lines that would have shredded Kerry.

Kerry: "Global test"
Bush: "Wonderful, but awfully "testing" when Libya chairs the Human Rights Commission and Iraq the Disarmament Comission.

Kerry: Iraq war a mistake
Bush: With my opponent in charge Saddam would still occupy Kuweit

Kerry: Things in Iraq going wrong
Bush: Giving a few positive examples about what U.S. troops really do in Iraq, quote Iraqis freed from torture chambers etc.

Kerry: Bush messed up NKor
Bush: Insist on the poor Clinton legacy that Bush is working hard to fix, emphasize China's pivotal role in the talks.

Kerry: Most important issue, nuclear proliferation
Bush: Has a disadvantage here because Kerry answered first. Don't parrot Kerry's line, put emphasis on all WMD (biological and chemical, which terrorists are more likely to get). Note that Kerry didn't mention WMD in the hands of terrorists. Quote a few succesful examples how you stopped proliferation in the last 4 years.

Kerry: Making the Allies point 4 times
Bush: Quote France and Germany saying that they wont do more with a Kerry administration, give positive examples of what the Poles, British and Australians are doing (more than just mentioning them). Quote Afghanistan as an example where a broad coalition of allies (including France and Germany) is present.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-01 1:12:32 PM|| 2004-10-01 1:12:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Last night Bush was off his game, to say the least. He smirked and stuttered and, as TGA points out, let Kerry get away with one idiocy after another. Dick Morris puts it well:

The essential message for Bush is that he had better get his head back in the game and pay more attention to his performance if he doesn't want to get massacred in the second debate â which will focus on domestic policy, Kerry's strong suit.

Bush needs to undergo the same kind of transformation he went through in the 2000 primaries. He started smirking his way through those debates, obviously resting on his lead and feeling put upon to have to debate the pigmies vying for the nomination. But when he understood that he was facing a life-and-death challenge from John McCain, he got it together and showed energy and determination and won the subsequent debates.
He has to realize that he is in the fight of his life and bring passion, discipline, focus and commitment to the next debates or he will lose.

Mr. President, last night you looked like it was the end of the fourth quarter, and you were running out the clock. This is a tough race, and it's going to take your focused energy to win it. Last night you looked like you were just mailing it in.

Posted by lex 2004-10-01 1:18:20 PM|| 2004-10-01 1:18:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 I back the President but thought Kerry did better overall. That was no surprise to me. Kerry's a polished debater whose been doing this sort of thing since he was in high school - this is his element and he has a lot of style for it. Kerry's a man of great words, eloquent articulation, and nuanced thinking, but a very small man in the way of action, decisiveness, and substance. The guy spent a lot of time in the senate where it seems he did a lot of talking but not much doing. W is the opposite I think. I'm fairly confident W will do better in the next debate & I'm fully confident Cheney beats Edwards cleanly in their debate.

Sometimes W comes off like a bumpkin but that's okay w/me because the guy's got some salt to him and is not afraid to dig his heels in - even when it's politically reckless to do so.

I was thinking in the car on the way to work today if either one of these men were my Commanding Officer, who would I rather follow up the hill, and for me, hands down the President is the guy I'd follow. W is a man of substance where Kerry is a man of style. Enough said.

Posted by Jarhead 2004-10-01 1:36:07 PM|| 2004-10-01 1:36:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 The GWBush that I saw and heard last night is not someone I would want leading me or anyone up a hill. He looked and sounded like he'd run out of gas before he got halfway up.

He'd better get his game on, and fast.

Posted by lex 2004-10-01 1:52:39 PM|| 2004-10-01 1:52:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 I watched the debate in a very noisy bar. The audio was bad...it sounded like a debate between the teacher in "Charlie Brown" and the AFLAC duck. As I read the reviews, I like that version more and more...

Posted by Seafarious 2004-10-01 1:59:30 PM|| 2004-10-01 1:59:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Some of the blame needs to go to his debate advisors.
I mean, Kerry didn't really say anything you couldn't have anticipated.
I remember when I was doing political debates, we spent days trying to anticipate what the opponent would say (and most of the time he would be very predictable). Then you'd fire off a witty snarky remark before going into some serious details.
Kerry's strong point yesterday was that he didn't blather, ramble or appeared pompous. (I guess Bush expected this and let down his guard.) But what Kerry said... I think it was kinda easy to have a good reply for everything he said.
Instead Bush came across as someone who's annoyed he has to talk and defend his record, relying far too much on his lead in the polls.
He must improve in the next debates. Tactics: If your opponent says something that could hurt you, think up a good line, then turn things into positive colors. People will always prefer the positive but whatever you quote MUST sound more convincing than the negative attack of your opponent.
I had countless debates about the "NachrÃ¼stung" (Pershing/SS20 issue) and was often debating in front of a hostile public. As usual, you don't convince the convinced but those who are willing to listen.
It should be rather predictable what Kerry will say about the economy. Bush can't rely on ready made phrases to counter it.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-01 2:09:36 PM|| 2004-10-01 2:09:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 ex-lib: Sorry, ZF. But I still don't trust McCain AT ALL, and I do think he works behind the scenes against the President and the Republican party (and Rush agrees with me).

Behind the scenes doesn't make headlines and hurt the president. Press conferences and anti-Bush zingers from Republican senators do. They can say what they want behind closed doors. Hagel and Lugar slamming Bush before the cameras is just inexcusable.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-10-01 2:35:24 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-10-01 2:35:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 I took two passes at the debate last night. The first time through, I only listened-no visual. I was convinced that Bush hit it out of the park.

The second time I watched the debate as well as listened to it. I got a totally different impression. I think all this rapture over Kerry is rapture over appearance and style. It is President Bush's facial gestures, his posture, his body language that people are reacting to negatively, not the content of his ideas. We do live in shallow times, don't we?

Still I think all this fawning over Kerry is overdone. He made rather foolish and dull-witted comments a number of times during the debate. The first answer out of his mouth was launched with the same Kerry loftiness we've all been suffering through in this campaign.

President Bush, I don't know how you tell your body not to betray what's in your mind. You and I have similar reactions to the crazy things Kerry says. But if there were a way to let what he is say to roll off you like the confetti it is, I hope you find it. Don't lose spirit from this 1st debate.

The second debate will be hard; your approach was right in the first-reinforce it, temper it for the bombardment that will come in the second. The third will be your chance to shine.

Posted by jules 187 2004-10-01 2:38:36 PM|| 2004-10-01 2:38:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Has anyone considered that Bush is a tired President? This is a guy who didn't even stay up to the end of the Super Bowl, by his own admission. Why was the debate held so late?
Bush has done quite a bit in his presidency, and not all of it went according to plan. I can forgive him for having a tough time in a venue such as this. Hell, even Tony Blair is having heart problems.

Posted by Rafael 2004-10-01 2:39:31 PM|| 2004-10-01 2:39:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Rafael: Has anyone considered that Bush is a tired President?

He spent the day meeting with hurricane victims in Florida. Kerry got a manicure and a mysterious orange-looking tan (tanning booth?).

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-10-01 2:45:06 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-10-01 2:45:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Bush wore himself out before the debate meeting with hurricane victims. Not a smart move, but it's too late now.

As for getting beyond the Swiftee stuff, lex, I'm afraid the Swiftee stuff is what works best with a fairly uninformed electorate. Very few voters understand the Iran and North Korea issues the way Rantburgers do.

Posted by Tom 2004-10-01 2:46:28 PM|| 2004-10-01 2:46:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#27

PINK LIPSTICK for Kerry?

Posted by BigEd 2004-10-01 2:48:24 PM|| 2004-10-01 2:48:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Has anyone considered that Bush is a tired President?

Yes. He clearly shows signs of battle fatigue, which is what more and more Americans seem to be suffering from.

If he doesn't start sucking it up and begin to show us a war-fighting face again, I'm not sure that I want him re-elected.

Posted by lex 2004-10-01 2:53:48 PM|| 2004-10-01 2:53:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 lex: If he doesn't start sucking it up and begin to show us a war-fighting face again, I'm not sure that I want him re-elected.

Then you should vote for Kerry.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-10-01 3:01:21 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-10-01 3:01:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 lex: The GWBush that I saw and heard last night is not someone I would want leading me or anyone up a hill. He looked and sounded like he'd run out of gas before he got halfway up.

What is it with liberals and their chest-thumping metaphors?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-10-01 3:02:27 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-10-01 3:02:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 If he doesn't start sucking it up and begin to show us a war-fighting face again...

There's an easy cure for that: remember Bush standing on the WTC ruins saying, "...and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." (or something like that) Hell, that's enough for me to re-elect him, if I could vote in your elections.

Posted by Rafael 2004-10-01 3:09:46 PM|| 2004-10-01 3:09:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Sure, Zhang, all's just ducky for Bush--no self-criticism needed, is there?

The Chairman is in power and the situation is excellent.

Posted by lex 2004-10-01 3:10:04 PM|| 2004-10-01 3:10:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 there seem to be some here who think that ANY criticism of George W on any grounds whatsoever, makes one a Kerry supporter.

In another age, such people would have been good little Stalinists in the CPUSA.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-10-01 3:30:28 PM|| 2004-10-01 3:30:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Now, hold the phone.

When I posted this Kerry [had] 11 positions on the war taking place in Iraq ...the weekend is about to begin so if anyone spots #12, please post the latest version here :)

Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-10-01 3:53:36 PM|| 2004-10-01 3:53:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Its pretty hard not to react to the insane suggestions and ramblings of Kerry given the real facts. I can relate to the facial responses since mine were probably simular although I was making hand jestures at Kerry at the same time and Bush shouldnt do that publicly. Bush has got the worlds attention and the world knows he is very serious about defending our country with all our capabilities. To project any weakness invites serious consequences for all of us. IMHO I think President Bush was playing on the ropes allowing Kerry's talking head to show his obvious flip-flops on serious issues.
JOHN KERRY'S FLIP-FLOPS http://media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/100104v1.wmv

Posted by Johnnie Bartlette 2004-10-01 4:05:02 PM|| 2004-10-01 4:05:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#36

Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-10-01 4:43:45 PM|| 2004-10-01 4:43:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 OK, this is what I got out of the 1st debate: Kerry thinks the war in Iraq is the wrong war at the wrong time. He also proclaims he is the guy to help the troops in Iraq. Unless he intends to pull them out of Iraq, Kerry has inconsistant beliefs. His argument is invalid. End of story. Bush won. Neeeext.

Posted by Rafael 2004-10-01 4:45:10 PM|| 2004-10-01 4:45:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 As for Bush looking "tired" last night, I didn't get that from any of the clips I saw this morning (I didn't watch last night). Nor have I had that impression-- not at all-- from ANY of his stump appearances.

In contrast, I remember Jimmy Carter looked absolutely exhausted at this point in his term; moreover, he looked exhausted almost all the time, esp. in the last year with the Iranian hostage crisis going on.

I recall thinking at times that Reagan seemed tired near the end of his first term. And Bush's father looked not only tired, but old and worn-out as well (I remember that as the main reason I voted for Clinton in '92).

In any case, I don't think it matters much.

Posted by Dave D. 2004-10-01 5:47:00 PM|| 2004-10-01 5:47:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 The Pres is my man and the man for the job, but it was frustrating to watch. I've had cops and good witnesses just seem to melt on the witness stand over the years and you just want to whisper to them. I was so frustrated I had nightmares last night. I dreamed it was 1969 again and I was back in Viet Nam, but I had my ex-wife and my mother in law living in the hootch with me. Just when I thought things couldn't get any scarier!

Posted by Sgt. D.T. 2004-10-01 6:11:58 PM|| 2004-10-01 6:11:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 As for Bush looking tired. He has just spend the day touring Florida for the hurricane damage. I think that would be enough to tire anyone out.

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-10-01 6:13:42 PM|| 2004-10-01 6:13:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 OK, he gets a pass for last night, but not again.

Bush's fatigue has given encouragement to a few million left idiotarians who previously were on the brink of staying home. Crunch time now.

Posted by lex 2004-10-01 6:38:57 PM|| 2004-10-01 6:38:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this, either on any of the news channels, websites, or other locations I read regularly. The closest is a comment from CrazyFool in this thread, and even that didn't follow through.

George Bush spent yesterday touring the damage multiple hurricanes did to Florida, and had to deal with news from Iraq. Both weigh heavy on a president who truly cares for the people. Then he had to waste two hours or more dealing with a foppish dandy who didn't have the common courtesy to even view the situation in Florida, but spent his time getting a manicure. I'd be pissed too, and it would have shown more in my closing remarks than what Bush did last night. I'd have sent a verbal shaft that would have fried Kerry down to his toenails.

Which person would you want as president - one that puts the needs of this nation first, or one who puts his own appearance first?

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-10-01 7:45:56 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-10-01 7:45:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Aside from absolutely hating John F'ing Kerry's guts with an incandescent passion, part of the reason I didn't watch last night's debate is the same reason I don't watch Bush's press conferences: it's too painful. Literally.

The reason it's painful for me is that like Bush, I'm a lousy debater and a lousy extemporaneous speaker. I don't do well in arguments (especially when anything emotional is involved, as with politics), or when speaking off the cuff before a group. It's not that I can't "think on my feet," it's that my mind doesn't process information in the appropriate way in those circumstances: I can't reach into my mind and pull out facts on demand, whenever I want to.

I'm an engineer. Bush was, and is, an executive. And I sense that we'd both be absolute disasters as lawyers, and for the same reason: our minds don't work the right way for that.

As an engineer, I gather data; analyze it; form hypotheses and test them against the data; synthesize a solution to the problem at hand; and once I have the solution, I DISCARD EVERYTHING THAT WENT INTO IT. All the data and my calculations are still there, tucked away in folders in the filing cabinet in my office. But a couple of weeks after I've finished designing something, I won't have even the slightest idea of how I did it unless I go and open up those files again; I don't keep ANY of the original data laying around in my mind. It's clutter.

And it's not that I'm dumb, or incompetent. At what I do, I'm very, very good; and at some of the work I do, I'm among the best of the very best. But I can't debate.

Another example: when the Democrats started using their inane argument that the war in Iraq was unrelated to the War On Terror, my first reaction was "bullshit!"; my second reaction was to start a list of all the reasons I could think of why Iraq is in fact vital to the WoT. I've listed over three dozen of them so far, and they're online at:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dilatush/iraq.html

But in an argument with someone about Iraq, I'd be damn lucky if I could remember more than two or three of them off the top of my head; I'd have to stop and think real hard, and under pressure they just wouldn't come. I'd stammer and splutter, and just get angry-- at myself, and at the person I was arguing with.

I suspect it's much the same way with Bush, and it's what prevents him from being able to come up with instant refutations of Kerry's debating points. It's like when you can easily think of five good retorts an hour later-- but an hour later is an hour too late.

Sorry for the long-winded post; but I think it's an important point because it relates to Bush's difficulty in debates: he's got an executive's mind, not a lawyer's mind. And they work VERY differently.

Posted by Dave D. 2004-10-01 8:38:44 PM|| 2004-10-01 8:38:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Dave, Bush makes me wince when he speaks to, but I know what his bottomline is and his actions are generally consistent. I'm not taking anything away from Kerry's debating skills, the guy's good. Also don't forget that Kerry has been a part of the great debate society (our U.S. Senate) for almost 20 years. He also has been doing the debating thing since high school, he can debate both sides of the same issue w/out a problem and from what I've seen has no problem w/taking both sides of the same issue. He's quick off the cuff. Sure, he'll win style points but most people know he lacks substance and character. For those that style matters, I don't really give a rat's ass about those types of folks. Heck, if anyone's still leaning toward Kerry and this point in the election or is "undecided" then your pretty much beyond help imho.

lex> your too smart to be making some of these comments. Relax partner, one debate should not make you re-think why you should vote for W. Cutting/running and whining is for the LLL, not those of us who see the big picture on the GWOT & what this election means to it.

Posted by Jarhead 2004-10-01 9:41:10 PM|| 2004-10-01 9:41:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 I hear ya, Jarhead, and I agree completely; my comment was mainly directed at lex's concerns, in that I don't think we should expect Bush to be terribly good in any of these debates; he just doesn't have the lawyerly, argumentative talents.

But no matter how he does on the debates, I'll crawl over broken glass through machine gun fire if I have to, to get to the polling booth to vote for him. Our survival very likely depends on it.

Posted by Dave D. 2004-10-01 9:52:30 PM|| 2004-10-01 9:52:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 Hey TGA: Thanks for fighting the good fight on the Pershings in the 80s.

Posted by Classical_Liberal 2004-10-01 11:30:26 PM|| 2004-10-01 11:30:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 I have avoided commentary on the debates for the most part because I score them differently. It is my belief that the new media has changed the end result of a presidential debate. The content of what Kerry has said will now be processed overe several days. Bush has a known record while Kerry has a host of "secret" policies.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-10-02 12:23:28 AM|| 2004-10-02 12:23:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#48 Fair enough, jarhead. But I think the Bush camp was getting a bit compacent, as maybe I was, too. I'm an ABK voter, but the MSM will be giving kerry every possible chance to overcome the Swiftie rap on him. Bush and Rove need to elevate their game, 's all I'm saying.

Unfort'y I can't take a leave of absence but if I could I'd go back home to Michigan and start knocking on doors and gettig out the vote.

Posted by lex 2004-10-02 1:28:11 PM|| 2004-10-02 1:28:11 PM|| Front Page Top

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