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2011-10-17 Africa Subsaharan
What Uganda Deployment reveals about Obama's war strategy
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Posted by Pappy 2011-10-17 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11138 views ]  Top

#1 OK, I'll bite. The LRA are evil mother-bleepers that deserve to be whacked, but how is it in our national interest to be the ones doing it?
Posted by SteveS 2011-10-17 00:15||   2011-10-17 00:15|| Front Page Top

#2 Obama, for his part, argued that the intervention against the LRA is a matter of national security.

I fear Uganda is simply the first of many to follow. Predominately, I mean quite predominately caucasion SF personnel will not be seen in any part of Africa as liberators. Once again, our leaders neglect the study of history, and a glaringly obvious, quite recent history at that.
Posted by Sofa-Soldier 2011-10-17 00:30||   2011-10-17 00:30|| Front Page Top

#3 While I'm not thrilled about us getting involved in *yet another* theater as international law enforcement (or whatever), killing off the LRA root and vine seems like, well, The Lord's Work. So I'm going to hold off judging this until we see what happens.
Posted by Secret Master 2011-10-17 00:57||   2011-10-17 00:57|| Front Page Top

#4 The LRA are quiet evil. Central Africa is an area that has become far more murky in the last few years with our attention elsewhere. The South Sudan independence alone has been a hassle to over-sae.
The Blue Nile region is very unhappy.
There are weapons from diverse places showing up.

Been following LRA for a long time, I do not like the fact that this is the timing for involvement, if at all. But I do know that there are interests we have if not only our investment to protect the Black Christians in that brutal environment.

That is what the the vote to separate the Sudans came from in the first place.Also, there are prominent radical Islamic elements in the wings trying to fire up the burn room again. Remember where Osama got his notorious start.

The LRA is not at all Christian.
Posted by newc 2011-10-17 01:29||   2011-10-17 01:29|| Front Page Top

#5 Also, be ever mindful that the amount of chaos in the DOD right now is so very ravaging between budget cuts and ACTIVE involvement in the Philippines, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sinai, Guam, Libya, Somalia (we need to get that on the board today as Kenya just sent troops there), Yemen +.

This amount of disorder in our priorities are deleterious to our Nations Defense.
Posted by newc 2011-10-17 01:39|| concisemagazine.com  2011-10-17 01:39|| Front Page Top

#6 A far as I am concerned, if we can keep coming up with thoroughly nasty targets to whack, while providing good live-fire training to our Special Ops forces, we will be pursuing a "win win" situation.

I say this in the context of winding down operations in the two main theaters, so that Special Ops guys get some down time with families.
Posted by Lone Ranger 2011-10-17 01:44||   2011-10-17 01:44|| Front Page Top

#7 Right. Well, I still have mixed feelings about us deploying troops in Uganda (and thereabouts). On one hand, Obama's statement about the LRA being a security risk to America is patently BS. Unless Joseph Kony manages to summon Cthulhu (a slight possibility, actually), they simply aren't. The Big O just wants to kill them all... which shows good taste. I do too. The LRA suck so bad it's almost hard to believe they exist at all.

OTOH same thing could definitely be said about the Taliban and Saddam Hussein. And 50%-ish of the American population don't seem to think it was worth it. So these things can get... complex. Quickly.
Posted by Secret Master 2011-10-17 01:49||   2011-10-17 01:49|| Front Page Top

#8 killing off the LRA root and vine seems like, well, The Lord's Work.

I'll second that

But why no UN authorization. Although I guess this a bilateral agreement between Uganda and the USA.

Using drones to hunt down the LRA shouldn't take too long.
Posted by phil_b 2011-10-17 03:15||   2011-10-17 03:15|| Front Page Top

#9 As US Special Operations Forces begin deploying to Africa, a clearer picture is emerging of America's preferred warfare strategy in a time of fiscal restraint: fewer troops, more drones, and the aggressive targeting of enemy leaders by special operations forces.

No complaints here
Posted by European Conservative 2011-10-17 06:09||   2011-10-17 06:09|| Front Page Top

#10 0 sees national security as inversely proportional to national interest.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-10-17 07:08||   2011-10-17 07:08|| Front Page Top

#11 Wunderbar.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-10-17 07:13||   2011-10-17 07:13|| Front Page Top

#12 Notice how when institution become less powerful, in the sense of creating real positive change, they seek 'show' to demonstrate that they are doing something, anything.

It's like worrying about the incandescent light bulb while drowning in regulations and obstructions in pumping or fracking billions of gallons of known energy resources. This we can do no matter how little it really is.

Thus this game.
Posted by Procopius2k 2011-10-17 09:11||   2011-10-17 09:11|| Front Page Top

#13 Here's an idea: Let the ANC clean up their own outhouse. It's not our job.
Posted by mojo 2011-10-17 10:45||   2011-10-17 10:45|| Front Page Top

#14 I have a big problem with a President deploying U.S. forces to kill someone simply because he decides they're bad.

Several posters here agree with Obama because the LRA is evil. You should be worried about allowing presidents to become Judge, Jury and Executioner.
Posted by DoDo 2011-10-17 11:15||   2011-10-17 11:15|| Front Page Top

#15 Unfortunately I believe we're already beyond that point DoDo. Everyone should have a problem with this sort of strategy. The definition of "terrorist" can be quite inclusive, depending upon who is tossing it around and where.
Posted by Sofa-Soldier 2011-10-17 11:27||   2011-10-17 11:27|| Front Page Top

#16 He should have at lease consulted with Congress before starting all of these military actions.
Posted by newc 2011-10-17 11:35||   2011-10-17 11:35|| Front Page Top

#17 You can't go around killin people because they're sons-a-bitches because you wouldn't know where to stop.

I hate this kind of thing (along with Libya) for the same reason. If we let this jackass in DC play God, what's to stop him or the next one from doing whatever he wants in the world. Why not whack Mugabe or Kimmie or Specs. or ... or ... or.

We can't police the world according to the whims of the White House.
Posted by AlanC 2011-10-17 12:51||   2011-10-17 12:51|| Front Page Top

#18 Let the ANC clean up their own outhouse.

The ANC is in South Africa. This is Uganda. /pedantic observation
Posted by Pappy 2011-10-17 13:25||   2011-10-17 13:25|| Front Page Top

#19 Everyone should have a problem with this sort of strategy.

From my sources, it appears that this is partially domestic-political, partially a payback for Uganda sending troops into Somalia with the AU, and partially to take pressure off of South Sudan (the LRA is operating there).

The irony is that it's essentially a return to a Cold War strategy; essentially aligning with a not-democratic regime, using outside-channel methods, in order to fight an enemy.

Pretty much the same thing (publicly) decried by the Left three, four, and five decades ago.
Posted by Pappy 2011-10-17 13:35||   2011-10-17 13:35|| Front Page Top

#20 Several posters here agree with Obama because the LRA is evil. You should be worried about allowing presidents to become Judge, Jury and Executioner.

Well, there's good, old-fashioned evil (say, the Hells Angels) and then their EVVIILLLLL (say, Jeffery Dahmer). The LRA are the later. What we're doing is (metaphorically speaking) tossing Dahmer into the same cell as a dozen Hells Angels.

Plus Obama is obviously going to do what he want and doesn't give a damn about things like the Constitution, president, foreign relations, and so forth. He's (amusingly enough) actually much more reckless than Bush... not that you would know it from watching CNN. So let's just be happy when he nails the right guys.
Posted by Secret Master 2011-10-17 13:40||   2011-10-17 13:40|| Front Page Top

#21 The LRA is one of about thirty groups that are active in the area from Angola to Mozambique north to the Sahara, that are engaged in smuggling, slavery, gun-running, drugs, and anything else. They smuggle diamonds, heavy metals, antiquities, gold, and anything else that can be gotten by theft and sold for a high price. Their action in part supplies the funding for al-Qaida from Somalia to Nigeria and Sierra Leone. They definitely play a part in keeping that part of the world unstable, but I'm not sure it's in our best interest to be the ones to "stop" them. If US forces are there to train the Kenyan Army to take on the LRA, good. If we're there to do their job for them, that's not so good. We made that mistake in Vietnam. We didn't make that mistake in Iraq. It's too early to tell about Afghanistan. I hope we don't make the same mistake in Africa.
Posted by Old Patriot 2011-10-17 14:08||   2011-10-17 14:08|| Front Page Top

#22 Congress should have been consulted. We should ask the Pubs in Congress if they were. Obama has some time under the War Powers Act to do the notification.

I don't mind going after Kony at all, since he needs killin', but there is a slippery slope, isn't there.
Posted by Steve White 2011-10-17 14:13||   2011-10-17 14:13|| Front Page Top

#23 We have had "contractors" training locals to go after LRA for the better part of 10 years, mostly funded by state dept. Very limited ROE for those guys (I know a few guys...), outcomes were OK, but tribal politics hampers proper use of trained local troops. Official U S military presence will alter that. LRA is certifiably insane and evil, killing them off now would stabilize a good chunk of that area multiple countries. stabilizing now at lower intensity probably prevents larger and harder actions later. That may be why they are going after this now. Its certainly not in the typical Obama/left/state Playbook. Perhaps this is O's attempt at foreign policy and military leadership since he doesn't have much domestic stuff to stand on.
Posted by OldSpook 2011-10-17 15:00||   2011-10-17 15:00|| Front Page Top

#24 The Administration's 'congressional mandate' for this operation is very weak.

However, given the scale of the operation I don't think most in Congress will complain unless the operation goes on and on and on.
Posted by Lord Garth 2011-10-17 15:10||   2011-10-17 15:10|| Front Page Top

#25 Congress should have been consulted.

"Lawmakers in May 2010 authorized the president to come up with a regional strategy for dealing with the LRA", per the article. I don't know if the White House thinks that's sufficient.

If US forces are there to train the Kenyan Army to take on the LRA, good.

Surely you mean 'Uganda' instead of 'Kenya'. Regarding doing "their job for them": OS pretty much explained it. My take is that it'll be a very fine line. The problem will be one of avoiding asset-escalation.
Posted by Pappy 2011-10-17 15:40||   2011-10-17 15:40|| Front Page Top

#26 #18 Let the ANC clean up their own outhouse.

The ANC is in South Africa. This is Uganda. /pedantic observation
Posted by Pappy 2011

I wish it were not so, but the ANC has far reaaching tennacles well beyond the Orange River. A historical link can be found in Mozambique as well as the Liberation Tigers, PASLO, MASLO, and other like groups. If communism isn't successfully exported, it eventually tends to die.
Posted by Sofa-Soldier 2011-10-17 16:07||   2011-10-17 16:07|| Front Page Top

#27 avoiding asset-escalation

Just a little bit pregnant.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-10-17 16:46||   2011-10-17 16:46|| Front Page Top

#28 The LRA is a problem not because it is horrid; it is a problem in that it is outside the authority of the Westphalian state system, self-sustaining and horrid.

It is no less than an alternative form of human government. Worse it is hostile to our form of government, and we cannot control it. Either we or the LRA must die.

The LRA is very different from the Taliban for example, who are just a bunch of guys supported by the nation of Pakistan fighting in Afghanistan. If we wanted to stop them we could use our national power to influence or destroy Pakistan, which would end the Taliban. Similarly for the FARC hiding out in the nation of Venezuela attacking Columbia, or the old IRA attacking Northern Ireland from the nation of Southern Ireland.

There is no way we can press Uganda, Sudan, CAR or any other nation to stop the LRA, because it is independent of them. It is not in or of their nation. Worse, it could pick up and spread somewhere else. If we leave it alone, sooner or later some other loon will duplicate it.

The LRA has found a seam in the fabric of civilization and everywhere they yank on that seam civilization is torn apart. While this is a fight against a small group of people in a remote place, it is also a serious matter.
Posted by rammer 2011-10-17 18:53||   2011-10-17 18:53|| Front Page Top

#29 Why... why the fuck are we in another country that does not have any strategic interest for us or presents a danger to us? Obumble is a bigger warmonger than Bush ever was and fights all the wrong wars in the wrong locations with the wrong people.

Fucking loon.
Posted by DarthVader 2011-10-17 19:18||   2011-10-17 19:18|| Front Page Top

#30 Ditto Darth, no DOUBLE Ditto!
Posted by Sofa-Soldier 2011-10-17 19:21||   2011-10-17 19:21|| Front Page Top

#31 I wish it were not so, but the ANC has far reaaching tennacles well beyond the Orange River.

True. Museveni employed marxism-socialism when he first gained power, and the Ugandan government reflected the same at first. Fortunately Museveni was canny enough to avoid being another Mugabe and encouraged a free-trade economy. The government is still tribal oriented (surprise), slowly becoming multi-party tho Museveni's party tarnished itself in the 2006 elections.

However, for all its flaws it's nothing like the ANC (it's more like what the US hard-left would like to see the current administration become).
Posted by Pappy 2011-10-17 20:14||   2011-10-17 20:14|| Front Page Top

#32 Why... why the fuck are we in another country that does not have any strategic interest for us or presents a danger to us?

Partially to pay-back to Uganda for supplying AU troops in Somalia (strageic interest).

Partially to take pressure off South Sudan, where the LRA has been operating (strategic interest).

Partially to gain influence among other AU member nations (strategic interest).

Not saying it's agreeable; it's just what has been presented.
Posted by Pappy 2011-10-17 20:17||   2011-10-17 20:17|| Front Page Top

#33 There are slavery rings operating in the US -- let's clean up that crap before we worry about some backwoods twits with delusions of godhood.
Posted by Rob Crawford 2011-10-17 21:20||   2011-10-17 21:20|| Front Page Top

#34 OK
LRA = evil. So we sent troops.
Mexican Cartels = evil. So we don't send troops. We in fact provided arms.

Is there something wrong with this picture? /rhet question
Posted by Procopius2k 2011-10-17 22:11||   2011-10-17 22:11|| Front Page Top

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