Article

2011-10-14 India-Pakistan

Pakistanis wonder what more they can do in war on militancy

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Posted by Fred 2011-10-14 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11130 views ] Top
File under: Govt of Pakistan

#1 What more can Paks do?

Pick one side or the other and stick with it.

Posted by SteveS 2011-10-14 00:35|| 2011-10-14 00:35|| Front Page Top

#2 Ummm...kill a militant?

Posted by Skidmark 2011-10-14 00:43|| 2011-10-14 00:43|| Front Page Top

#3 Dr. Steve, Fred and mods:

I believe I am owed an apology in reference to last evening's adhominum post. Furthermore, the writer should be permanently banned as should anyone who levies such personal attacks. Your opinoin please. I welcome and look forward to seeing your comments.

Respectfully, Besoeker

Posted by Besoeker 2011-10-14 00:49|| 2011-10-14 00:49|| Front Page Top

#4 Besoeker, you can't argue with somebody who believes that "We've progressed beyond all that".

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-10-14 05:36|| 2011-10-14 05:36|| Front Page Top

#5 We'll see what happens g(r)om. This is the second time this sort of attack has taken place of late. It was posted at 2209 EST last evening and has still not been deleted or "sinktrapped." If a deletion and apology is not forthcoming, one can only conclude that the management agrees with the disturbing commentary.

Posted by Besoeker 2011-10-14 05:58|| 2011-10-14 05:58|| Front Page Top

#6 :-(

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-10-14 06:08|| 2011-10-14 06:08|| Front Page Top

#7 Screw it. It's not worth the effort. - lotp

Posted by lotp 2011-10-14 13:48|| 2011-10-14 13:48|| Front Page Top

#8 Thanks, lotp -- you really brought into perspective why our guys have PTSD and in later years, "awake to ghost." Thanks for telling us, how the military trains our "warriors." The "least wrong option" WOW

Posted by Sherry 2011-10-14 14:56|| 2011-10-14 14:56|| Front Page Top

#9 I think you confuse "pleasant" with "right", lotp.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-10-14 16:18|| 2011-10-14 16:18|| Front Page Top

#10 Screw it. It's not worth the effort. - lotp

Posted by lotp 2011-10-14 16:30|| 2011-10-14 16:30|| Front Page Top

#11 Lotp:

Thank you for your comments, but frankly, all I see is a continued personal attack. With regard to the following:

Because not once in your postings here at the Burg have you ever shown that you are a true warrior who has internalized that critical standard: "be willing to kill people and break things if need be, but do not ever ever ever take it lightly.

Nor will you ever be "shown" those things. I am quite comfortable with my un-extraordinary accomoplishments, service, on-going current contribution albeit limited, and... "internalizations" which by the way, are and will remain private. Gratuitous tail-sniffing, references to "strategic assignments" and bonifides checks are really not my cup of tea. Activities such as these fall into the same league as the ad hominem personal attacks that appear to have become the approved domain of a few in this forum.

Thank you once again for your comments, and have a pleasant week end.

Posted by Besoeker 2011-10-14 16:54|| 2011-10-14 16:54|| Front Page Top

#12 an American point of view

Tell it to the Indians.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-10-14 17:08|| 2011-10-14 17:08|| Front Page Top

#13 Nor will you ever be "shown" those things

Attitudes and moral stances show - one way or the other.

Posted by lotp 2011-10-14 17:17|| 2011-10-14 17:17|| Front Page Top

#14 Attitudes and moral stances show - one way or the other.
Posted by lotp

All open to subjective bias and interpretation, and yes, a cross many have been hung upon I might add.

Posted by Besoeker 2011-10-14 17:26|| 2011-10-14 17:26|| Front Page Top

#15 shrug

You regularly try to push the limit here at the Burg - with not-so-sly racial references from time to time, by calling for our military to commit atrocities recently.

From time to time the mods have imposed a vacation from posting for that reason.

This time around you were called on it.

You don't take it well when you're called on it, as OldSpook did angrily last night and as I did today with a different tone.

Tough.

Posted by lotp 2011-10-14 17:38|| 2011-10-14 17:38|| Front Page Top

#16 Besoeker, FWIW I've retroactively redacted the comment in question. I agree that it was not in good taste.

Posted by Scooter McGruder 2011-10-14 18:24|| 2011-10-14 18:24|| Front Page Top

#17 Race card down is it? If my word count is correct, that took no fewer that 200 written words. My compliments! UHDS has a spot for you as a guest lecturer next summer I am certain.

Seriously, please do not confuse my urging of a win by annihilation one's enemy as racial genocide. That really is a bit twisted. My desire is simply to win or withdraw and end the bloodshed. All indications are the Muslim world initiated this ugly affair. I still hold hope that we may finish it with some degree of aplomb and dignity. Failing that, cut losses and get out!

No, I've never had the honour of being banned on the Burg. Sink vaulted a few times, but never banned. My absences have been due to work or travel, and I've certainly missed you as well.

Again, have a most pleasant week end, and send Herman Cain a few dollars as you can. He needs your support.

Posted by Besoeker 2011-10-14 18:24|| 2011-10-14 18:24|| Front Page Top

#18 Screw it. It's not worth the effort. - lotp

Posted by lotp 2011-10-14 18:27|| 2011-10-14 18:27|| Front Page Top

#19 Yes! Yes! In fact I do. I have for years sought that coveted office, but alas, have failed quite miserably. One of my lesser failures mind you. You, among all men and wymin, have been bestowed with inerrant memory, great knowledge, and unparalleled character descernment. It enables you and selected others to say anything you please to the.... little people. To include critiquing their free-rants, bashing them in anonymity, referring to them as racists, warmongers, sofa-warriors, feminine hygene cleansing devices, and worse. I congratulate you on your accomplishment and strongly encourage you to tell others, for a union, wear a button, an arm band, or other distinctive symbol.

Once again, have a safe and most enjoyable week end.

Posted by Besoeker 2011-10-14 18:53|| 2011-10-14 18:53|| Front Page Top

#20 Screw it. It's not worth the effort. - lotp

Posted by lotp 2011-10-14 19:07|| 2011-10-14 19:07|| Front Page Top

#21 My thanks and 'cap tip' to Scooter. Sadly, others could have seen the inappropriateness of the comments, and done the same much earlier. For whatever reason, they failed.

With regard to "respect" a short comment if I may. I have on occasion in years past, been extended the "respect" of both greater and lesser men. Many of which still correspond after several decades. When I requires yours, be sure, I'll ring you up. Our short debate has been both stimulating and therapeutic. Ms. Besoeker always thought I was too easily entertained. Oh well, animal lover that I am, just call me a pig in the mud, I love it! Thank you! It has been a very slow night here and I am out of Keurig K-Cups dimmit. But you have made it all worthwhile.

If I failed to mention it earlier, please don't forget candidate Herman Cain and a nice campaign contribution. We've completely worn poor old Barry out, and we certainly don't need any Mittens.

Posted by Besoeker 2011-10-14 19:34|| 2011-10-14 19:34|| Front Page Top

#22 Screw it. It's not worth the effort. - lotp

Posted by lotp 2011-10-14 19:59|| 2011-10-14 19:59|| Front Page Top

#23 Commenting as a mod:

I regarded OS's comments as... crusty. Not necessarily over the top, but way short of what I'd call inappropriate.

Let's face it the man can lay in a string of taunts if his buttons are pushed. I know. I've pushed them.

However, to use a baseball metaphor:

I would not have sink trapped him, but that's like a called strike. If Besoeker doesn't like where the ball is called a strike, he's better be prepared to bunt.

Posted by badanov 2011-10-14 20:05|| http://www.freefirezone.org 2011-10-14 20:05|| Front Page Top

#24 Sadly,others could have seen the inappropriateness of the comments, and done the same much earlier. For whatever reason, they failed.

I've heard worse here.

It's a good thing you weren't around in the early days of Rantburg; your sensibilities would have ended up in bloody heaps. Come to think of it, sort of like your metaphorical Afghan villagers.

But do have a good weekend, Meneer. And remember, the door to Rantburg is always open. You know, the one marked 'Entrance'... and 'Exit'.

Kind Regards,

Pappy
(as a private citizen, since it seems to have to be mentioned.)

Posted by Pappy 2011-10-14 21:50|| 2011-10-14 21:50|| Front Page Top

#25 .com would've served you your sensitivities marinated in false sympathies. Tighten up. A little less sensitivity in Mod reaction might be appropriate...

Posted by Frank G 2011-10-14 22:32|| 2011-10-14 22:32|| Front Page Top

#26 I'm coming late to the party since I worked late at the clinic today, but since Besoeker called on me by name.

I personally would not have sink trapped Old Spook's comment, since I agree with just about every word of it.

OS can be quite crusty, as moderator badanov points out, and perhaps he was exhibiting some poor taste, as moderator Scooter points out. However, OS is also correct in making clear that the US military lives by a code. Some of our people occasionally forget that code, and when they do and they're caught, they're punished.

WWII was eons ago. We don't fight like that anymore, least because we haven't yet been put into an existential conflict -- kill or be killed. Al Qaeda tried that on 9/11, and since 9/12 they've done the vast majority of the dying. We've managed to put them into that situation without having to commit horrific atrocities. That's good.

I agree with OS: the United States should not and cannot "kill them all". That way leads to the destruction of our souls. Why live if we have to live like that?

I agree with moderator lotp, who pretty much says the same thing.

Finally, I agree with moderator Pappy (who I note doesn't always agree with OS), who points out the clearly marked 'Exit' sign.

You've been around here a while, Besoeker, and you've also pushed a lot of buttons. Without offering any apologies yourself, if I recall correctly. Not that I'm calling it on you tonight; no, not me.

Grow a thicker skin. It's a sandpaper world out there.

AoS

Posted by Steve White 2011-10-14 22:49|| 2011-10-14 22:49|| Front Page Top

#27 A little less sensitivity in Mod reaction might be appropriate...

Especially when what's at stake are the allegedly hurt feelings of a man who has called for an official policy of military atrocities against Afghan villagers.

What was I thinking?

Sorry, Frank - there are only a few things that I will be publicly and deeply angry about. Calls to set aside a difficult military ethical standard that was hard won is one of those things.

Especially when it comes from someone who once claimed, IIRC, to have been a noncom in VietNam.

You know - that unpleasant affair in a little country with villages like My Lai.

What pisses me off deeply is not only what he proposed be done to women, children, noncombatants.

It's what doing such things would in turn do to the people who are serving in uniform today, and to us as a people.

Posted by lotp 2011-10-14 23:24|| 2011-10-14 23:24|| Front Page Top

#28 lotp. I wasn't actually referring to the initial pushback. Your point was made. I'm talking about the extended comments.

Posted by Frank G 2011-10-14 23:44|| 2011-10-14 23:44|| Front Page Top

#29 I've been guilty of continuing to make my point too long. I'd suggest you review the thread. We got it.

Posted by Frank G 2011-10-14 23:46|| 2011-10-14 23:46|| Front Page Top

23:46 Frank G
23:44 Frank G
23:43 SteveS
23:34 SteveS
23:32 SteveS
23:24 lotp
22:58 lotp
22:50 USN, Ret.
22:49 Steve White
22:46 Richard Aubrey
22:44 Barbara
22:34 Frank G
22:33 Ralphs son Johnnie
22:32 Frank G
22:29 Frank G
22:27 JosephMendiola
22:22 trailing wife
22:21 trailing wife
22:21 JosephMendiola
22:19 Chomosing Hupimp6046
22:16 JosephMendiola
22:13 Free Radical
22:07 Pappy
22:04 Pappy