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2004-10-01 Israel-Palestine
Large IDF force with 100 tanks enters northern Gaza
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Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-10-01 12:58:04 AM|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Logic dictates, that as Israel nears the moment of truth with Iran, They must have their 'house in order' to avoid three fronts (Syria,Palestinian and Iran)! These moves bode not well for a latter rather than sooner confrontation.
Posted by smn 2004-10-01 1:53:53 AM||   2004-10-01 1:53:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Iran coupled with Syria-Lebanon bankroll & also train Arab Islamic terrorists in the Gaza Strip, Samaria & Judah, thus Israel's IDF forces are currently countering this extention of Iran's proxi-terror-war against the Jewish state in entering deep into the heart of the enemy lurking throughout the Gaza Strip.

Israel is not taking the slaughter of its people by Iranian backed killers any longer.

The same situation is confronting Iraq via Iran.

Silly question: What would America so if northern New Hampshire & Maine residents were being murdered by rockets fired from terrorists based southern Québec?
Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-10-01 3:01:15 AM||   2004-10-01 3:01:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 I quit caring what happens to the Palestinians. They have a colective suicide wish. I say grant it to them. They were almost finally going to have a state and they screwed themselves out of it. If the "intifada" had never started Palestine would be a state today. It has nothing to do with Israels valid defense of itself it has everything to do with pan-arabism in the morally bankrupt and backwards death cult that is islam. Satan has a way of paying his wages quickly sometimes. Palestine is a perfect example.

"What would America so if northern New Hampshire & Maine residents were being murdered by rockets fired from terrorists based southern Québec?"

If John Flecher Kerry was president, nothing. He would consult the French and ask them to intervene, call for a conference. Nothing else would be done as every good Democrat know "we have it coming" and "we are to blame" for any and all attacks upon us.

George Bush would pick up the phone and have B2 and Stealth fighters on the way right after all the Canadians at NORAD were arrested and hauled off in irons.

Further is suspect John Feltcher Kerry already has plans to sell Israel out to the Arabs.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-10-01 3:31:55 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-10-01 3:31:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 If the "intifada" had never started Palestine would be a state today.

There's a cold, hard truth!
Posted by 2b 2004-10-01 8:25:26 AM||   2004-10-01 8:25:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 I wonder how many of these "tanks" are jeeps, APCs and bulldozers (D-9, baby!)?

A hundred tanks would imply, what, a brigade? And there would be a hell of a lot more vehicles than just a hundred tanks.

The news media is so stupid.
Posted by Laurence of the Rats  2004-10-01 8:28:15 AM|| [http://www.punictreachery.com/]  2004-10-01 8:28:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I wonder how many of these "tanks" are jeeps, APCs and bulldozers (D-9, baby!)? A hundred tanks would imply, what, a brigade? And there would be a hell of a lot more vehicles than just a hundred tanks.

A couple of battalions if all 100 vehicles were tanks, close to a brigade depending on Israeli doctrine on task organizing at the operational level, with which I am unfamiliar. But it is unlikely the IDF sent in 100 Merkavas, as they are far too valuable to cluster in an urban setting. Israelis use tanks the way Russians do: as a general combat weapon with antitank capabilities, but using a lot of them in an urban setting is just asking for trouble..

Israel has since 1973 taken up a program to convert old T-55 and T-62 hulks left over from the Six Day War and the Yom Kipper War and remake them as APCs. I don't recall the Israeli designation, but I can get it for you're if you are interested. Anyways, it is entirely possible that reporters regard these particular APCs, if they are in fact being used, as tanks instead of APCs.

Reporters in the field, as a general rule, can distinguish between a dozer and a tank, but not between an APC and a tank. You'll have to forgive them. They're idiots.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-01 8:40:19 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org]  2004-10-01 8:40:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Well idiots and outright liars.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-10-01 8:43:01 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-10-01 8:43:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 badanov, that's interesting about the conversion of the old tanks into APCs. I hadn't heard of that. But it just occurred to me that I have seen odd looking APC-like Israeli vehicles on TV before. I wonder if I have been seeing some of these turret-less converted old tanks.

Not all reporters can distinguish between tanks and bulldozers, though. When the Waco fiasco was underway, the reporters on TV kept calling the armored bulldozer ramming the side of the building a "tank". One of many things that drove me crazy that day.
Posted by Laurence of the Rats  2004-10-01 9:05:15 AM|| [http://www.punictreachery.com/]  2004-10-01 9:05:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#9  the reporters on TV kept calling the armored bulldozer ramming the side of the building a "tank".

Those were Combat Engineering Vehicles, a kind of tank with a bulldozer blade and a winch/boom assembly. I forget which model they used in Waco, but many have a large caliber gun used to fire demo charges. Not quite a tank, but real close.
Posted by Steve  2004-10-01 9:16:54 AM||   2004-10-01 9:16:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#10  badanov, that's interesting about the conversion of the old tanks into APCs. I hadn't heard of that. But it just occurred to me that I have seen odd looking APC-like Israeli vehicles on TV before. I wonder if I have been seeing some of these turret-less converted old tanks.

It has been years since I have seen one, but they are around. How widespread they are and in what units, well the IDF likes to keep that info close to their vest, and I don't blame them. But you are right: it is strange to see a turretless T-55 being driven about. I think Israeli Military Industries is the prime contractor for these conversions.

Not all reporters can distinguish between tanks and bulldozers, though. When the Waco fiasco was underway, the reporters on TV kept calling the armored bulldozer ramming the side of the building a "tank". One of many things that drove me crazy that day.

Actually, the tank was in fact an old M-60A1 converted to be an engineering tank. I don't recall at the moment the military designation for it, but maybe another rantburger can help out. It sported a 165mm short gun, a dozer blade for engineers and a boom for hauling and other tasks.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-01 9:17:17 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org]  2004-10-01 9:17:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Actually, the tank was in fact an old M-60A1 converted to be an engineering tank. I don't recall at the moment the military designation for it, but maybe another rantburger can help out. It sported a 165mm short gun, a dozer blade for engineers and a boom for hauling and other tasks

M 728 CEV. I drove/commanded/maintained them for 4 years in the 278th acr. And it would make an awsome urban assult vehicle, when the engine was working. Personaly, I'm glad we don't have to mess with them anymore. They were a maintenance headache.
Posted by N guard 2004-10-01 9:53:43 AM||   2004-10-01 9:53:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 N Guard: 278th acr? In E. TN? I know a couple of guys that were in the 278th n guard.
Posted by Psycho Hillbilly 2004-10-01 10:29:10 AM||   2004-10-01 10:29:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 If the "intifada" had never started Palestine would be a state today. And almost everybody would be better off. Except for Arafat and his cronies, who would have lost their opportunities for graft and power-monkey. Which is why it never happened.
Posted by Weird Al 2004-10-01 10:44:56 AM||   2004-10-01 10:44:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 It's like seeing reporters and such calling a 688 Cat front-end loader a bulldozer.Idiots do not have a clue and can't bothered to ask:A bulldozer is an track mounted earthmover with a dozer blade,a track loader is a track mounted front-end loader.A front-end loader is a rubber tired tractor with a loader bucket,a wheeled dozer is a rubber tired tractor with a dozer blade instead of a bucket(damned hard to run a level blade,too).
Posted by Raptor 2004-10-01 11:24:33 AM||   2004-10-01 11:24:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Bare ground to out past Qassam range? Free fire zone, anyone?
Posted by mojo  2004-10-01 12:16:36 PM||   2004-10-01 12:16:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 'If the "intifada" had never started Palestine would be a state today.'

No it wouldn't. Clannish societies with a high proportion of clinically certifiable sociopaths do not nations make.
Posted by Anonymous6092 2004-10-01 12:20:40 PM||   2004-10-01 12:20:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Indeed. One only need listen to the press discuss 'assault weapons' to know they, for the most part, have no idea of what they speak when it comes to military hardware. Show the average reporter photos of a Remington semi-auto shotgun and a Ruger bolt action rifle and I'm sure he or she would confidently state that one of the two is an 'assault weapon'.
Posted by jqrider  2004-10-01 12:27:34 PM||   2004-10-01 12:27:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 jqrider: If you take the stock of either and ram it sharply into the forehead of said ignorant, it then does qualify as an "assault weapon". Just an observation, not that I would recommend that at all.....
Posted by Frank G  2004-10-01 12:33:55 PM||   2004-10-01 12:33:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Found it!
Posted by badanov  2004-10-01 2:19:05 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org]  2004-10-01 2:19:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 badanov - That is exactly the strange APC I have been seeing. Thanks, thats one mystery for me solved. :)
Posted by Laurence of the Rats  2004-10-01 4:10:46 PM|| [http://www.punictreachery.com/]  2004-10-01 4:10:46 PM|| Front Page Top

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