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2005-07-18 Terror Networks & Islam

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Posted by phil_b 2005-07-18 07:03|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

This analysis leads me to conclude that attempts to integrate and assimilate Muslims will result in more suicide bombing. Its not the answer, at least in the medium term. It also leads me to conclude that societies with large Muslim minorities have a serious intractable problem that can only be solved by physically removing them.

Well, it seems to me that assimilation is the social tactic that Europe has not tried, and found wanting.

This will require that the social problems from Muslim minorities will have to get a lot worse before the hurdle of forced relocation can be crossed.

This sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy if you ask me.

Bleah.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-07-18 09:08|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-07-18 09:08|| Front Page Top

#2 Actually, I think it takes a whole chain of motivations to create a suicide bomber.

first, the potential bomber has to be a believer in a cause

second, the potential bomber has to believe that his/her own death will be a glorious stoke for that cause

third, the potential bomber needs emotional coersion (or at least support) from a cohort group - maybe they need role models too

probably it is even more complex than this

Posted by mhw 2005-07-18 11:03|| 2005-07-18 11:03|| Front Page Top

#3 Phil_b, what's the source?

Posted by gromgorru 2005-07-18 11:42|| 2005-07-18 11:42|| Front Page Top

#4 Do suicide bombers use timers?

The London terrorists did... they must have thought they were on a Madrid-style mission.

Posted by Kalle (kafir forever) 2005-07-18 15:03|| 2005-07-18 15:03|| Front Page Top

#5 Phil_b, what's the source? Its my own personal experience.

Posted by phil_b 2005-07-18 16:26|| 2005-07-18 16:26|| Front Page Top

#6 I think suicide bombers are the tip of a much bigger iceberg and whether a particular terrorist knows they are going to kill themselves or not is immaterial, since we know suicide bombers do exist. My point was that an awful lot of people are presumimg irrational motivations for these people and developing prescriptions based on these presumed motivations, which in my view will make the terrorism problem worse.

To a degree I agree with Phil F. that assimilation is the answer. What I am questioning is 'Are we prepared for what will happen on the road to get there?' Or 'Is it worth the pain of trying to assimilate a group that violently resists assimilation?'

In general, I'm an optimist and think for most problems there is at least one good solution. However, for unassimilated moslem minorities I think there is no good solution and the prescriptions proposed are based on a fundamental mis-understanding of the problem, and as a result the problem will get worse.

And finally, TechCentral had a good article a couple of weeks back about how people want to believe that there is always a solution and if a problem is not getting solved it's because evil people are thwarting the solution. Whereas the reality is some problems are difficult and intractable without a good solution.

Posted by phil_b 2005-07-18 17:35|| 2005-07-18 17:35|| Front Page Top

#7 They caught one the other day, and he was high as a kite. In other cases, the bad guys have tricked mentally retarded individuals into carrying bombs. Don't discount the prevalence of coercion, by drugs and other means.

Posted by Mike 2005-07-18 18:02|| 2005-07-18 18:02|| Front Page Top

#8 There also is the widespread problem with male sexual identity, and sexual abuse aftermath, among the younger suicide bomber crowd. And there are issues stemming personal ego-centric motivations of personal "honor" in association with being "macho," attempts at reclaiming identity, (or of, essentially, being awarded a new one) that have little to do with "protecting" the larger social group, although they may pay lip service to that concept, and yes, some may believe they are doing that. Lack of education (in general) among suicide bombers and the clerics promising sexual fulfillment in Moslem paradise also has a lot to do with it.

Posted by ex-lib 2005-07-18 19:16|| 2005-07-18 19:16|| Front Page Top

#9 Phil, if your thesis were correct, then the parents of suicide bombers would have nothing but positive things to say. However, I've read several accounts of Palestinian parents who were outraged that their children were convinced/coerced to become suicide bombers. In these cases, either someone did not know their place or didn't give a damn.

Posted by remoteman 2005-07-18 19:26|| 2005-07-18 19:26|| Front Page Top

#10 I've also seen reports that some parents are proud of their suicide bombing offspring. Certainly, large parts of some(?) muslim societies agree with the tactic.

Posted by phil_b 2005-07-18 20:07|| 2005-07-18 20:07|| Front Page Top

#11 Lack of education (in general) among suicide bombers ... also has a lot to do with it.

That's patently false. There's a study floating around that states that something on the order of 4/5 of suicide bombers are college educated, most in the west (you can guess the conclusions drawn thereafter). That same study goes on to conclude that the profile of a typical homicidal jihadi bomber is: college educated (probably in the non-Muslim west), comes from a family & background that's not particularly religious, comes from a family that we'd consider middle class (wealthy or very wealthy by local standards), etc. These are not poor, hopeless, desperate, unwashed masses who've been misled by zealots, they're generally cold, rational, well-educated, folks living comfortable lives who make conscious decisions that they believe will further a cause they believe in very much. The old liberal canards of poverty and oppression just don't play here.

Posted by AzCat 2005-07-18 21:19|| 2005-07-18 21:19|| Front Page Top

#12 What motivates suicide bombers? Well, shit for brains as a starter.

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-07-18 21:26|| 2005-07-18 21:26|| Front Page Top

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