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2011-07-08 Science & Technology
Jerry Pournelle : No More Spacefaring Nation
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Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-07-08 05:11|| || Front Page|| [11129 views ]  Top

#1 The question is do you define a spacefaring nation by how many spaceships the nation has, or the nation's government has?
Posted by rjschwarz 2011-07-08 08:54||   2011-07-08 08:54|| Front Page Top

#2 SpaceX and Dragon
Dragon getting ready for crew
Posted by 3dc 2011-07-08 10:36||   2011-07-08 10:36|| Front Page Top

#3 Although the pretense was that NASA was a civilian operation, and most of it was, Saturn/Apollo was done with military managers and in the military way. The “soldiers” were civilian development scientists and technicians, of course; but the people doing the managing were military, and they did it the military way, which is to divide the enormous task into a series of comprehensible tasks and assign someone capable of getting that done to each task.

This meant concern for getting the job done – mission oriented — and little to none for the concerns of the people assigned. “You, man. You are in charge of getting me an operating space suit design. It has to do the job, and it has to be ready on time. Go do it.” “Uh, General, I’m a control systems engineer –” “I know that. I also see your record. I know you can do this job, and this is the job I have to get done. Go for it. Dismissed.”
Posted by KBK 2011-07-08 10:43||   2011-07-08 10:43|| Front Page Top

#4 The other day I was watching 2001: A Space Odyssey on TV. They were showing those scenes of a space plane approaching a giant space station in orbit around the moon and all of the lunar exploration while the very civilized waltz music of Johan Strauss was playing. It made me wanna cry. We should have been there by now. But we stalled out. We dared to dream about it for a while. We were almost there. But now we're too decadent, too corrupt and our civilization is in decline. It's a damn shame and there's no telling when we'll ever get anywhere near that kind of capability again.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2011-07-08 12:14||   2011-07-08 12:14|| Front Page Top

#5 Thanks for posting that, 3DC. I am convinced that SpaceX and operations like it are the real reason Obama decided to cancel the bloated, business-as-usual Constellation program. NASA and its profiteering legacy contractors are simply being left in the dust. Their plans for a Moon landing project would have been superseded by events long before they expended enough billions to get off the ground.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2011-07-08 12:21||   2011-07-08 12:21|| Front Page Top

#6 But we stalled out.

Not so much as were dragged down in the name of the Poor(tm). All the waste of the Great Society programs and resources to arrive today to still see poverty now compounded by a corrupt education system that insures that fundamental skills are not even achieved. The Space Program was used as a guilt stick to extract monies for cronies in the race baiting business, ...if you can afford this, you can afford...

You can go to the moon (or the stars) because its an engineering issue. You can not solve poverty because when you get down to the basics, its a 'free will' issue.
Posted by Procopius2k 2011-07-08 12:32||   2011-07-08 12:32|| Front Page Top

#7 Suck it up, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, etc. A 50 year run of profiteering and waste before you were called out is quite enough. SpaceX is an embarrassment to these hucksters, and they have responded with a fierce campaign of propaganda and false fear mongering from their shills, including Pournelle.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2011-07-08 12:33||   2011-07-08 12:33|| Front Page Top

#8 A great people accomplish great works. Everyone else gets soup kitchens and midnight basketball.
Posted by Iblis 2011-07-08 13:44||   2011-07-08 13:44|| Front Page Top

#9 I am unaware of JEP saying anything untowards about SpaceX. As far as I can remember he has been extremely critical of among others Lockheed and Boeing.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2011-07-08 14:05||   2011-07-08 14:05|| Front Page Top

#10 Giving up on space colonization and resorting to pagan worship of "Gaia" vis a vis "environmentalism" = the feminization/emasculation of this great country. Man was created to spread his seeds throughout the universe...
Posted by borgboy 2011-07-08 15:31||   2011-07-08 15:31|| Front Page Top

#11 Allthe waste of the Great Society programs

Ah, the Great Society... Another wasteful program put forth by the left. We have even more poverty now despite all the promises of the Great Society.
Posted by JohnQC 2011-07-08 18:23||   2011-07-08 18:23|| Front Page Top

#12 In the beginning, the US poured a lot of money and resources into the space program. We did great research and we got great people on board. ANNNNNND

We had goals and objectives set so we knew where we were going.

We do not really have goals and objectives, and the plan and resources to do it. We do not have leaders, but managers. Look at the o-ring fiasco in the shuttle. Better yet, look at the shuttle. The concept was flawed from the beginning.

We need the type of vision and engineering going on right now with Space-X.

We have been adrift now for decades in a field that we kicked a$$ at. This is due to a lack of leadership and vision. NASA is just another agency of managers. The only thing they are doing now is the space probes. The rest are make work projects going nowhere.

We better get back in space or we will become like Spain and Portugal after they fell off the top of the hill.
Posted by Alaska Paul 2011-07-08 19:08||   2011-07-08 19:08|| Front Page Top

#13 IIRC, the USoA in the geopol, inflationary turmoil of the early-mid 1970's could not $$$ afford both the proposed [post-Appollo]"Space Plane" or the simil "Space Station', so a compromise was reached where the former became the Space Shuttle program we know to day, while the latter became SKYLAB.

NASA wants to turn over the bulk of the functions of Space Exploration to the US-ALLIED Private Sector = Free Markets - although I agree wid the turnover in principle, + ASAP the better, its going to take a long while before the same are able to replicate what NASA has been able to accomplish. Its also going a take a long while for other World Powers = Space wannabes to par wid the US, or even catch up to Cold War Soviet standards.

My worry is that the USA will be effec destroying its own pool of educated, trained Managers + Astronauts, etal. for years to come, + thus lose the skills it took a lot of time of time + $$$ to develop.

The real test of US Space Free Market companies will be their ability to safely + routinely travel to + from the the Moon + AsteroidS/NEOS in privately-operat Passenger-Cargo Spacecrafts; + the deployment, operation, + safe routine replacement of key Satellites + Space Telescopes, etc.

IMO THE US + NASA SHOULD RETURN TO THE MOON BEFORE TURNOVER TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR, IFF ONLY TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT THE US CAN STILL DO IT + CAN DO IT ANY TIME IT PLEASES, SAFELY + ROUTINRLY + EASILY.

Sometimes to inspire Pride + Proficienices, etc. in the next or new Generations one has to go back + do the easy or frilly stuff it did times before long ago, just because we can.

JUST TO SHOW THE NEW KIDZ "THIS IS WHAT YOUR PARENTS + GRANDPARENTS, ETAL. PREDECESSORS ACHIEVED IN THEIR TIME - SHOW US YOU CAN DO THE SAME OR BETTER"!
Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-07-08 21:18||   2011-07-08 21:18|| Front Page Top

#14 Lest we fergit, "STAR WARS" MASTER YODA to doubting Jedi-in-Training LUKE > "DO, OR DO NOT -THERE IS NO TRY ... ... ... AND THAT IS WHY YOU FAIL" [Luke trying to argue that things = Jedi levitation methods are impossible for him or anyone to do]!
Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-07-08 21:24||   2011-07-08 21:24|| Front Page Top

23:58 trailing wife
23:50 trailing wife
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23:36 phil_b
23:19 Pappy
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22:26 Thing From Snowy Mountain
22:26 Dale
21:58 Frank G
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