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2007-07-04 Iraq
Pilot rides helicopter out of Iraqi firefight
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Posted by Pappy 2007-07-04 00:10|| || Front Page|| [11140 views ]  Top

#1 By the way, those are 'bought and paid for' troops, Woozle.

....and greedy contractors keeping those helos flying as well, whahahha.
Posted by Besoeker 2007-07-04 10:03||   2007-07-04 10:03|| Front Page Top

#2 Course they're bought and paid for Lil Papoose. You all are. I assume from your insinuation you're on active duty in the Corps, correct ? Are you in Iraq or some US supply depot ? The troops courage is never in question, just their judgement in being used as pawns in the global game played out on Wall Street. You lifer NCO's can talk big, but you're not walking patrol getting your limbs separated from the remainder of your carcass. Besoeker, you mean Army Aviation doesn't even maintain its own birds anymore ? And, bye the bye, Lil Papoose, Happy Fourth.
Posted by Woozle Elmeter2970 2007-07-04 13:01||   2007-07-04 13:01|| Front Page Top

#3 Course they're bought and paid for Lil Papoose. You all are. I assume from your insinuation you're on active duty in the Corps, correct ? Are you in Iraq or some US supply depot ? The troops courage is never in question, just their judgement in being used as pawns in the global game played out on Wall Street. You lifer NCO's can talk big, but you're not walking patrol getting your limbs separated from the remainder of your carcass. Besoeker, you mean Army Aviation doesn't even maintain its own birds anymore ? And, bye the bye, Lil Papoose, Happy Fourth.
Posted by Woozle Elmeter2970 2007-07-04 13:01||   2007-07-04 13:01|| Front Page Top

#4 Course they're bought and paid for Lil Papoose. You all are. I assume from your insinuation you're on active duty in the Corps, correct ? Are you in Iraq or some US supply depot ? The troops courage is never in question, just their judgement in being used as pawns in the global game played out on Wall Street. You lifer NCO's can talk big, but you're not walking patrol getting your limbs separated from the remainder of your carcass. Besoeker, you mean Army Aviation doesn't even maintain its own birds anymore ? And, bye the bye, Lil Papoose, Happy Fourth.
Posted by Woozle Elmeter2970 2007-07-04 13:01||   2007-07-04 13:01|| Front Page Top

#5 I assume from your insinuation you're on active duty in the Corps, correct?

Civil Service. Something about not being medically fit for duty/deployment...

Are you in Iraq or some US supply depot?

A nice little training facility in the Mojave, a few hours east of your IP address. I'd invite you over, but you'd probably say something stupid like you do in your posts, and the resulting paperwork would be a bitch.

The troops courage is never in question, just their judgement in being used as pawns in the global game played out on Wall Street.

Did it hurt when they installed the cliche chip?

You lifer NCO's can talk big, but you're not walking patrol getting your limbs separated from the remainder of your carcass.

That's probably because I've already had my 'limbs separated from my carcass'. Actuallly, the spinal cord. I got a free two-year stay in Bethesda as a result. And btw- I'm a mustang.

Happy Fourth.
Posted by Pappy 2007-07-04 14:11||   2007-07-04 14:11|| Front Page Top

#6 Ouch! Woozle' does it hurt to get slapped like that?

'Course, you've meen proven a moron, so you could be too dumb to know that you've been hit.

By the by Woozle' enjoy your 4th and keep in mind that its protected by soldiers that are bought and paid for.

Enjoy your freedon, loser.

Posted by Mike N.  2007-07-04 14:19||   2007-07-04 14:19|| Front Page Top

#7 Ouch! Woozle' does it hurt to get slapped like that?

'Course, you've meen proven a moron, so you could be too dumb to know that you've been hit.

By the by Woozle' enjoy your 4th and keep in mind that its protected by soldiers that are bought and paid for.

Enjoy your freedom, loser.

Posted by Mike N.  2007-07-04 14:19||   2007-07-04 14:19|| Front Page Top

#8 Hah! You thought I was gonna post it 3 times! Loser.
Posted by Mike N.  2007-07-04 14:21||   2007-07-04 14:21|| Front Page Top

#9 Please, Mike N, don't call Woozle Elmeter2970 a moron. It's so important to used the correct terminology, and while a bit old fashioned, I stand by the label of imbecile in his case. He isn't smart enough to aspire to being a moron, I'm afraid.
Posted by trailing wife 2007-07-04 14:57||   2007-07-04 14:57|| Front Page Top

#10 The troops courage is never in question, just their judgement in being used as pawns in the global game played out on Wall Street.

Why didn't I think of that? It's all so clear now. Well, since you're so smart Woozle, why don't you explain more of the subtle details of your hare-brained theory to all of us here so we can all have a good laugh analyze it.
Posted by gorb 2007-07-04 15:15||   2007-07-04 15:15|| Front Page Top

#11 Kewl! Funny some of the things you think of in a crisis situation. FYI I would bet that they don't teach this in Army Aviation School (and never will). Good job!
Posted by Cyber Sarge 2007-07-04 15:27||   2007-07-04 15:27|| Front Page Top

#12 Has someone thought to point out to dear little Woozle that the pejorative term of "lifer", meaning a career military person is just so... well, several wars ago?
And that deploying the "chickenhawk" insinuation at Chez Rantburg might be opening oneself up for the Mother of all Bitchslaps?
(humming to myself, looking around for the mop and the paper towels, which will be needed to mop up the mess, once everyone is done with educating Little Woozle)
Posted by Sgt. Mom 2007-07-04 15:39|| www.celiahayes.com]">[www.celiahayes.com]  2007-07-04 15:39|| Front Page Top

#13 We could start, Sgt. Mom, by educating him as to what Pappy means when he says he's a mustang. Wasted effort tho - he not only has no clue, he doesn't even know there's a clue train to take delivery from.

Wannabe boy with ethical and intellectual zits. Probably facial ones too, the kind with yellow heads that keep needing popping.

It's pretty pathetic when your fiercest anti-troop rhetoric is 2nd hand outdated 60s stuff. Tie dyed insinuations, grimy from spending so many years on top of the boards and bricks shelves in the commune and being pawed by 'free spirits' who don't make regular acquaintance of soap and water.

Watched it happen the first time around. It was pathetic then, but some of my age group did eventually grow up.

It's REALLY pathetic when it's regurgitated 40 years later.
Posted by lotp 2007-07-04 16:08||   2007-07-04 16:08|| Front Page Top

#14 OK, I apologize for the facial zits part of that comment.
Posted by lotp 2007-07-04 16:20||   2007-07-04 16:20|| Front Page Top

#15 The troops courage is never in question, just their judgement in being used as pawns in the global game played out on Wall Street.

Woozle, since you've been an e-Jihadists for the Ummah-Corp fill us in, which Grade Schools and/or Hospitals are you and your ass-clowns gonna blow up for allah?

Do yourself and us a favor and spill the beans on the Islamic Terrorist.

The War against the Islamicist Fascism and Muslime Terrorism could use a tip from an insider like you, so switch sides to the The United States of America the very Best..
Posted by RD">RD  2007-07-04 16:28||   2007-07-04 16:28|| Front Page Top

#16 OK, I apologize for the facial zits part of that comment.

Good 'cause they are BOILS!
Posted by RD">RD  2007-07-04 16:29||   2007-07-04 16:29|| Front Page Top

#17 RD, I don't think Woozle's a jihadi, e- or otherwise.

He's just got a head full of half-understood superficial thoughts he's seen others string together. No doubt he thinks he believes them. Probably thinks he's Speaking Truth to Power. I mean, he went right to the SOURCE of the conspiracy, those nasty troop-sacrificing Wall Street ... um ... whatevers.

If I sound pissed, it's because I am. I lived through the sliming of my family members and friends during and after Nam. It's bad enough that Woozle boy pukes up tired old memes from the Nam ear and tries to throw them at today's professional, volunteer force.

It's the fact that he adds in his heartfelt belief that they're too STUPID to avoid being manipulated by the Capitalists that tips me into the pissed off side of the online street.

I've taught his like in college. I've also taught some who are serving in uniform now, putting their comfort and lives on the line through a conscious choice to defend and protect us. One group was far and away better as students, more functional in their lives and bigger contributors to our society.

Hint: it wasn't the Woozle camp.
Posted by lotp 2007-07-04 16:55||   2007-07-04 16:55|| Front Page Top

#18 ear era.
Posted by lotp 2007-07-04 16:56||   2007-07-04 16:56|| Front Page Top

#19 #17: "I don't think Woozle's a jihadi"

I agree, lotp - he's it's not smart enough for that.

Speaking of smart, I'll bet that egggggs-cellent bitch-slap you gave him/it will be smarting for a week! :-D
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2007-07-04 17:17|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]  2007-07-04 17:17|| Front Page Top

#20 This whole idea that only a person that isn't smart enough to be an independent thinker would want to volunteer for the military is just something these clowns tell themselves so they can feel superior. Some people have to make excuses for themselves by knocking down others. Not being good enough to cut it is far too harsh for their fragile self esteem.

These people have obviously no idea what it takes to fly for the Airforce for instance and I'm sure Pappy can tell this bafoon what percentage of Marine officers have college degrees. Real ones I might add, not some crap they through at a football player so he can play for the Hurricanes.

Woozle, you might as well face up to what the rest of us already know, you can't cut it and you can't face.
Posted by Mike N.  2007-07-04 17:52||   2007-07-04 17:52|| Front Page Top

#21 Sorry, Pappy, didn’t know your story or I wouldn’t have cut on you. I don’t get to Twentynine Palms that often, but I could stop next time I drive to Vegas…winter only… and have a cup with you. Doubt anything serious would occur. Actually, preventing anymore Marines or Army grunts from going through what you have is what motivates me. What isn’t being mentioned is the 50-60,000 wounded, some so bad that functioning normally is out of the question. And these are 20 yr. olds. I was in and out of hospitals for several years myself, but nothing as serious as your injuries. The reason , LOTP, I refer to an old war is because it was my war. I was there and know what it was like and know what I’m talking about. I don’t know anything about this war, except I see recurring patterns and realize these troops may have it even rougher than any military group before them. To go and fight is one thing. To go and be maimed for no real reason is quite another. At unit reunions now, none of us can justify why we were in Nam. What was accomplished ? This thing, if it was confronted properly, is as important, if not more so, than the Nazi menace. Let’s destroy the enemy, not our armies. I agree with Gen. Curtis LeMay: if the war is worth fighting, then it’s worth killing the enemy as fast as possible without mercy to end it as soon as practicable. I know this isn’t a military forum, but TW your posts are thoughtful normally, but you don’t know dip about battlefields. And Mike N., you’re the dizziest SOB that’s ever posted here, so no comment on your upchucks.
Posted by Woozle Elmeter2970 2007-07-04 18:40||   2007-07-04 18:40|| Front Page Top

#22 I don’t know anything about this war,

I'll buy that. You DON'T know what's happening with this war, or our troops. You're viewing it all through your experience and you're either too lazy or too _______ to go find out the facts on the ground.

There are serious issues around this protracted, multi-dimensional Long War. I hear them debated and evaluated every day in my workplace. But by and large they are not the issues you assume. (Hint about my workplace: most people are in green. Or khaki. And not one of them is a 'boy' or 'girl', age notwithstanding.)

Whatever you may think -- or more exactly, assume -- the vast majority of those in theater in Iraq, Afghanistan and more obscure places do not think that they are deployed for 'no reason'. They may have serious issues with tactics and strategy. Maybe some of the reservists and national guard are not as prepared for real combat and SASO as the active duty pros. (Although, the ones I've talked with are and are pretty damn well informed too.)

Bottom line up front, Woozle. Your meme is both tired and uninformed.

But if your concern for the wounded is genuine (and I will assume it is), then you might find the California equivalent of my uncle Lefty.

At 84, this Silver Star / multiple Bronze Star awardee and 3 time wounded at the frontlines of Bastogne vet served until this year as Commander of the Order of the Purple Heart -- and drove to pick up other vets who (like him) limp and are in regular pain. They meet incoming soldiers at the airport. They provide coffee and a knowing ear when needed. They visit in the hospital and provide hours of support during the pain and confusion.

What they do NOT do is pity those men and women. Not in the condescending but uninformed way you seem to be doing. Instead they meet them as colleagues and companions, as after-battle buddies.

It's one place you could start -- providing you check your assumptions at the door and are willing to grow and to learn.

And when you're ready for the graduate course, google "effects based operations" and see if you can wrap your mind around the idea that our commanders have multiple objectives in Iraq and Afghanistan, attrition of the enemy being only one.


Posted by lotp 2007-07-04 19:05||   2007-07-04 19:05|| Front Page Top

#23 Woozle, a polite hint: Today is a really poor choice of days to be disparaging our military. Just sayin'.

At unit reunions now, none of us can justify why we were in Nam. What was accomplished ?

May I suggest any of a number of books by Ayn Rand? Viet Nam had to be fought because it was essential that America stand up to communism. That war operations were dictated by politicians resulted in the same senseless carnage we're witnessing today in the Politically Correct Iraqi conflict (albeit at a significantly lower level). Consider that the economic drain upon the Soviet Union to aid North Vietnam's military may have helped tip its artificial economy over the edge. More than anything, just like with Islam, communism had to be fought wherever we could.

This thing, if it was confronted properly, is as important, if not more so, than the Nazi menace.

No doubt about that. Too bad that so many politicians and American citizen simply do not get it.

Let’s destroy the enemy, not our armies. I agree with Gen. Curtis LeMay: if the war is worth fighting, then it’s worth killing the enemy as fast as possible without mercy to end it as soon as practicable.

It's hard to agrue with military logic. The absence of a proper military enemy has confused this current conflict to no end. When our politicians finally wake up and can bring themselves to name the enemy that confronts us, perhaps that will change.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-07-04 19:08||   2007-07-04 19:08|| Front Page Top

#24 It's hard to agrue with military logic.

Especially when that 'logic' is so disconnected with anything resembling current doctrine.
Posted by lotp 2007-07-04 19:15||   2007-07-04 19:15|| Front Page Top

#25 Patience.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-07-04 19:25||   2007-07-04 19:25|| Front Page Top

#26 Especially when that 'logic' is so disconnected with anything resembling current doctrine.

While I'm confident you meant that as a refutation, I take it as a confirmation.

I'll only add how wonderful it is to live in a country where we can agree to disagree. Our foes brook no such latitude.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-07-04 19:28||   2007-07-04 19:28|| Front Page Top

#27 Agreed on the country, Zen.

Don't confuse doctrine with strategy or tactics, by the way. When I say that Woozle is unfamiliar with current doctrine I'm talking about all the tools available to commanders, the skills, procedures, weapons, methods that troops are taught and commanders can call upon. THOSE have changed significantly since Viet Nam, not to mention the majority of LeMay's career.

LeMay was the father of the Strategic Air Command.

The outgoing commander of the current STRATCOM, which is far more than SAC ever was in its heyday, is a Marine.

If you understand why we now have the integrated command that STRATCOM represents, and why its outgoing Marine commander is moving up to Vice Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, you'll begin to see what I mean about different doctrine.

What the pols and the White House direct the military to do using that doctrine is a separate issue.
Posted by lotp 2007-07-04 19:37||   2007-07-04 19:37|| Front Page Top

#28 What the pols and the White House direct the military to do using that doctrine is a separate issue.

Which was largely my point.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-07-04 19:42||   2007-07-04 19:42|| Front Page Top

#29 Ah, the heady days of Viet Nam, when Richard Milhouse Nixon could tell his German-born secretary of state:

I'd rather use the nuclear bomb...Does that bother you I just want you to think big, Henry, for Christ's sake!
Posted by lotp 2007-07-04 19:52||   2007-07-04 19:52|| Front Page Top

#30 Sorry, Pappy, didn’t know your story or I wouldn’t have cut on you. I don’t get to Twentynine Palms that often, but I could stop next time I drive to Vegas…winter only… and have a cup with you.

Thank you for the offer. Some day, perhaps.

What isn’t being mentioned is the 50-60,000 wounded, some so bad that functioning normally is out of the question. And these are 20 yr. olds.

Please keep in mind that, even a decade ago, the number of wounded would have been much higher. And a significant percentage of the current wounded would have been returning in body bags. One can thank technology and leadership for that.

And while they are young, and I tend to call them 'my kids' (Besoeker does too), my marines and corpsmen are 'in' because, for most of them, they want to be there. They are smarter, more mature, and more focused, yes- better than most of the population they came from. Calling them 'bought and paid for' disparages them.

At unit reunions now, none of us can justify why we were in Nam. What was accomplished ?

May I suggest going to Westminster? On certain days, the residents fly flags of the Republic of Vietnam along its streets. Perhaps they can tell you.
Posted by Pappy 2007-07-04 20:41||   2007-07-04 20:41|| Front Page Top

#31 Woozle dear, I did make the point that I'm pretty much the Platonic Ideal of civilians. Of course I know nothing about matters military. Who would be silly enough to think I did?
Posted by trailing wife 2007-07-04 23:56||   2007-07-04 23:56|| Front Page Top

23:56 trailing wife
23:54 Zenster
23:51 twobyfour
23:51 Mike N.
23:49 Zenster
23:48 trailing wife
23:47 Eric Jablow
23:45 trailing wife
23:45 twobyfour
23:43 Zenster
23:41 Zenster
23:41 Swamp Blondie
23:39 Swamp Blondie
23:38 Mike N.
23:37 twobyfour
23:27 Frank G
23:26 Frank G
23:25 Abdul Aziz
23:19 Mike Sylwester
23:17 trailing wife
23:16 Mike N.
23:09 Zenster
23:04 Frank G
23:01 Zenster









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