After sifting through nearly 8,000 proposed state slogans that ran the gamut from colloquial â "NJ: How You Doin'?!" â to the cynical â "Most of Our Elected Officials Have Not Been Indicted" â the acting governor revealed the five finalists of a statewide contest Wednesday. All five potential tag lines are a bit more serious than some of those submitted by state residents, who also will get to choose the winner. Acting Gov. Richard J. Codey explained that the billions of dollars tourism contributes to the state merits a more straight-laced slogan.
I guess accuracy isn't a criterion, so "Most Many Of Our Elected Officials Have Not Been Indicted" is out of the running...
"As residents, we already know New Jersey is a great place to work, live and play," he said. "We have everything here â except a catch phrase that communicates our unique charm to tourists."
Ah, da unique charm of Hoboken...
Codey launched the contest for a new tourism slogan after rejecting as too negative the one a marketing company was paid $260,000 to drum up. Codey said that "New Jersey: We'll Win You Over," reminded him of when he was single and would ask girls out on a date.
How about "We'll always have Hackensack"?
There's a scene in "The Producers" where Bialystock and sidekick are proudly standing in front of a display of all their failed plays. My favorite: "South Passaic".
So, the acting governor invited residents to try their hands at creating a slogan that will be used on signs and Web sites promoting the Garden State. The finalists are:
[Drum roll...]
"New Jersey: Expect the Unexpected."
Well. I certainly didn't expect that one to be on the list...
"New Jersey: Love at First Sight."
Yeah. I can see that on a billboard in Trenton...
"New Jersey: Come See for Yourself."
Danger! Danger! Y'gotta get through Maryland and Delaware and Pennsylvania to do that...
"New Jersey: The Real Deal."
I can easily see that one turning raw, if y'know whudda mean...
And,
[TA-DAAA!]
"New Jersey: The Best Kept Secret."
I can picture thousands, even millions of people muttering "Dere's a reason fer dat!"
Residents can vote for the tag line they like best by calling 609-984-9893 or by going to the Web site www.nj.gov/slogan through Jan. 1. Saying he'd vote for "Love at First Sight," Codey joked that no woman ever experienced such a sensation upon meeting him. The person who submitted what turns out to be the winning slogan will receive prizes, which could include tickets to a Nets basketball game and a weekend at a Shore bed-and-breakfast. "We'll make it worth their while," Codey said.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/24/2005 00:00 ||
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The person who submitted what turns out to be the winning slogan will receive prizes, which could include tickets to a Nets basketball game and a weekend at a Shore bed-and-breakfast.
Second place will receive a trip to Vegas.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/24/2005 0:22 Comments ||
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#2
You know what they say about Hoboken: "The Statue of Liberty faces New York Harbor. Her ass faces Hoboken."
NJ's most famous musician has a lot to say about NJ: "New Jersey in the morning like a lunar landscape." "We've got to get out while we still can." Why didn't they use those lines?
Posted by: Eric Jablow ||
12/24/2005 1:10 Comments ||
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#3
"Come visit the Mob in New Jersey, it's still goin strong"
#5
"Noo Joisey: The place between Noo Yawk and Dellyware"
Posted by: Fred ||
12/24/2005 11:12 Comments ||
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#6
State Song:
When I die bury me low
Where I can hear the petroleum flow
A sweeter sound I never did know
The rolling mills of New Joisey.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/24/2005 12:15 Comments ||
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#7
LOL DB! I was thinking: "NJ - guess what that smell is today"
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/24/2005 12:17 Comments ||
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#8
Yeah and a Merry Christmas to all a youse talking smack about lovely NJ.
Jersey ain't so bad, The only part that smells is Secaucus, and that's only because its near where the Jets play. Drive about 30 miles northwest on Newark airport and your in some really nice affluent country.
And I mean affluent not effluent wise guys.
Whoa. Don't forget South Amboy. There is absolutely no smell quite like South Amboy. Coming down off the bridge, southbound on the Garden State Parkway in August, South Amboy goes far beyond the concept of mere "smell": it's a sensation that goes from the nostrils straight to the balls in a giant, crashing, nauseating wave of sludge, hitting with the force of a sledghammer wielded by every demon in Hell.
And don't forget Elizabeth. Dear, sweet Elizabeth, home of Exxon's Bayway Refinery. Just lovely.
And best of all: just a mile from where I grew up, on the banks of the serene Passaic River, lies beautiful Little Falls. Gaak!
Posted by: Dave D. ||
12/24/2005 16:26 Comments ||
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There's all sorts of snarky comments I could make, but man-o-man would I get into trouble with the other mods.
(AP) It was a conversation stopper. A lovers' dispute over a cell phone took a serious turn early Friday morning when the woman ended the spat by swallowing the phone whole.
That's the way it starts. First it's cell phones, then they move up to Princess phones, then it's an occasional toaster, a microwave or two, and then before you know it they're swallowing some major hardware...
... I have yet to see in our ER a woman who's swallowed a toaster ...
Police said they received a call at 4:52 a.m. from a man who said his girlfriend was having trouble breathing. When they arrived at the house they found the 24-year-old woman had a cell phone lodged in her throat. "He wanted the phone and she wouldn't give it to him, so she attempted to swallow it," Detective Sgt. Steve Decker of the Blue Springs Police Department. "She just put the entire phone in her mouth so he couldn't get it." Police said an ambulance transported the woman to St. Mary's Medical Center in Blue Springs. A hospital spokeswoman said she couldn't give details about the woman's health since police have not released her identity.
"Why'n'tcha call her and ask?"
"What'd she say?"
"I dunno, something like 'mmm-mm-mmmmmm-m-mmmm-mmm!'"
Decker said police had closed investigations on the swallowing, the first such incident of its kind here. "This is the first I've heard of this happening," said Decker. "I don't know what kind of phone it was. I don't know if it was on ring or vibrate, either."
Nope, nope, not gonna do it, nope ...
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/24/2005 00:00 ||
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Man-o-man, that's gonna hurt coming out the other end. ;-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/24/2005 0:19 Comments ||
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#2
"Can you hear me now? [SPLASH!]"
Posted by: Fred ||
12/24/2005 1:16 Comments ||
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#3
dumb question: Is it possible to win an argument with a woman?
#7
lol lol Steve, funny commentary.
Jackel, good to see you're home with your mom. Hope everyone else here enjoys being together with family. If you're not able to be home, know that many are thinking of you. My kids are all home too, even my military guy even surprised me coming home. :)
Gotta get back to my sauteing onions
Posted by: Jan ||
12/24/2005 11:07 Comments ||
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#8
get out of the gutter PD!
I was thinking the same thing ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/24/2005 12:03 Comments ||
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#9
This is *almost* a RB Classic.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/24/2005 12:21 Comments ||
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SOFIA - Bulgaria and Libya will set up a special fund for AIDS-infected children in Libya, where five Bulgarian nurses have been sentenced to death in an AIDS-related affair, the foreign ministry said on Friday. The announcement came two days before the five, along with a Palestinian doctor, are to appear before Libyaâs supreme court to appeal their convictions for âknowinglyâ transfusing AIDS-contaminated blood into more than 400 children.
I think we can all see the deal that's coming together.
The fund was agreed on in coordination with the European Commission, the United States and Britain, the ministry said in a statement.
Bulgarian President Georgy Parvanov had said earlier Friday that Sofia would have to pay âa very high price,â which he did not specify, to win the release of the five nurses.
In an an interview in the 24 hours newspaper, the full text of which is to be published Saturday, Parvanov also said that negotiations between Bulgaria and Libya for the release of the nurses were well-advanced. âThere is light at the end of the tunnel,â he said, adding, âI sincerely hope that this would be their last Christmas in Libya.â
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/24/2005 00:00 ||
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An operation in the Democratic Republic of Congo, involving helicopter gunships and 1,900 UN and Congolese troops, has taken a key town from a rebel militia.
The town of Nioka has been captured, UN military spokesman Major Hans-Jakob Reichen, told the BBC.
The town, 80km (50 miles) north of Bunia, had been a rebel stronghold.
The joint operation, which began on Thursday, was against a militia led by Peter Karim. He has now fled northwards, the UN says.
Two of his bodyguards have been captured and the UN and Congolese troops hope to take him as well.
The militia he leads has been accused of atrocities against civilians in the region, which borders Uganda and Sudan.
Lawless region
This is the most lawless region of DR Congo, which is recovering from years of civil war in which more than three million people have died.
The eastern region of Ituri has been out of the control of the capital, Kinshasa, hundreds of kilometres to the west.
Minerals and rich timber resources have led to vicious territorial disputes, which Congo's neighbours have exploited for their own ends.
The UN has 16,000 peacekeepers deployed in the country - its largest military operation in the world.
The aim is to hold elections later next year, but this will be an uphill task while gunmen and bandits rule so much of this vast country.
Posted by: john ||
12/24/2005 12:49 ||
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Ooops.. should be on page 3...
These are 300 Nepalese troops supported by Mi-25 "Hind" gunships of the Indian Air Force
Posted by: john ||
12/24/2005 13:25 Comments ||
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A billy goat did some rough, instant justice to the President when his motorcade stopped to refuel en-route to the eastern resorts of Nyanga. The president, popularly known as Bob got out to stretch his legs, and speak to a couple locals. He was holding a bottle of water, when a Billy goat developed a profound interest and chose to pursue it. Whilst Bob swung the bottle at the goat, it quickly and sharply pierced Bob's scrotum, and large bowel.
Mugabe's notorious bodyguards seemed unable to prevent the attack as the goat lunged towards the president, perhaps the goat should be handling his security in future. By the time they reached Christmas pass outside mutare, the President was in horrible pain and had to be rushed to a secret location in Mutare for medical treatment.
It is not clear why the president was visiting Nyanga but Zimdaily understands Mugabe has a secret passion for gambling. He is rumoured to have visited Montclair Hotel in Nyanga endless times to fulfill his gambling desires, as he cannot use the facilities in Harare Showgrounds for security reasons. Grace Mugabe, the president's young wife, is believed to be in Pretoria doing what she does best, last minute shopping for Xmas.
Rumours are mounting that the couple have a strained relationship and to be in separate countries so close to the festive season is a telling indicator that this is indeed likely to be true. It is almost common knowledge that they no longer sleep in the same bed, so this twist in events is unlikely to make that much of a difference to a marriage that seems to revolve around convenience.
The president is also rumoured to be in the process of acquiring a private jet to allow him to make more frequent, long distance trips more securely and to reduce the burden of fueling hassles. He is expected to join Grace and the children in South Africa once the doctors give him the all clear.
Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister of Russia, Grigory Karasin, arrived in Ukraine yesterday to have a meeting with the Black Sea Navy command to discuss the future of the Russian fleet in Ukraine. In the meantime, Ukraine has made the first legal step to raise tariffs for the deployment of the Russian Navy on its territory.
The Ukrainian government passed a decree to conduct the inventory of property of the former USSR's Black Sea Navy. "No one knows what kind of property it is exactly, how much of it Russia owns and who uses it," Ukrainian minister for Economy, Arseny Yatsenuk told reporters yesterday. The official specified that the government of Ukraine would make the list of unregistered property. "We will then try to come to an agreement with Russian colleagues regarding its further usage. It is quite possible that Ukraine will revise tariffs," the minister said.
"The decree is a technical, purely economic document which determines the Ukrainian government's responsibility for Ukraine-based property," Yatsenuk said. The document stipulates that the Defense Ministry of Ukraine will control all military objects owned by the Russian Navy in Ukraine.
The government of the Ukrainian city of Sevastopol was very concerned about such a sudden turn of events with the Russian Black Sea Navy. The chairman of the municipal council, Valentin Borisov, stated that the navy should not be withdrawn from the city. "The Black Sea Navy of Russia and its infrastructure are highly important for the city economy. Furthermore, many Russian military men are married to Ukrainian women. There are families, in which one brother may serve in the Russian and the other one - in the Ukrainian navy," Borisov said.
In the meantime, Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko tried to ease the situation not to make it grow into another political scandal with Russia. Yushchenko said that Russia was Ukraine's "eternal strategic partner." The president also promised that Ukraine would make efforts to create the Russian-Ukrainian free trade zone in 2006. "We also hope to settle the gas problem with Russia. It would probably be easiest to coordinate the growing prices on the Russian natural gas with increasing rates for its transit via Ukraine's territory," Yushchenko said.
Ukrainian citizens organized actions of protest in Kiev and several other Ukrainian cities. Having put up tents in front of administrative buildings, the protesters urged Russian President Putin not to put obstacles on Ukraine's European integration. The demonstrators call upon the Ukrainian government not to disregard Russia's intention to raise gas prices and respond adequately setting world prices for the Russian Black Sea Navy.
Ukraine's tough position pertaining to the Russian Navy has made Russia's Gazprom release harsh statements regarding the gas prices. "It is incorrect to say who will be the winner or the loser of this game. Russian-Ukrainian relations may suffer seriously," Ukrainian analyst Vladimir Fesenko said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/24/2005 00:00 ||
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Why did the Ukraine keep the Crimea anyway? It was Russian for centuries until one of the Commies (Kruschev?) transferred it.
Posted by: Jackal (from Moms house, like people on DU) ||
12/24/2005 8:59 Comments ||
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NEW BEDFORD -- The UMass Dartmouth student who claimed to have been visited by Homeland Security agents over his request for "The Little Red Book" by Mao Zedong has admitted to making up the entire story.
The 22-year-old student tearfully admitted he made the story up to his history professor, Dr. Brian Glyn Williams, and his parents, after being confronted with the inconsistencies in his account....
[snip]
....The student's motivation remains a mystery, but in the interview on Thursday, he provided a glimpse.
"When I came back, like wow, there's this circus coming on. I saw my cell phone, and I see like, wow, I have something like 75 messages and like something like 87 missed calls," he said. "Wow, I was popular. I usually get one or probably two a week and that's about it, and I usually pick them up."
Fed up Dog
#1
Article: There was an increased sense among some Americans that the U.S. government was overstepping its bounds and trampling on civil liberties in order to thwart future attacks of terrorism.
That should probably have read: I had an increased sense that the U.S. government was overstepping its bounds and trampling on civil liberties in order to thwart future attacks of terrorism. It would have been more concise - and more importantly - more accurate.
#2
BDS is endemic in certain circles and venues. This little twitter couldn't think any farther than the end of its nose - and made itself a casualty. Given its obviously limited intelligence, things have worked out for the best, however.
#3
they won't release the name of the litle puke who did this. Why not? He's obviously an adult above 18, and has made slanderous lying accuations. Future Ward Churchill honors? Run this punk up te flag so he can get his consequences for his actions, otherwise, what are you teaching him?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/24/2005 20:03 Comments ||
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WASHINGTON (AP) - Sexual assaults and harassment are still significant problems at the nation's military academies, polls of students at the schools show, despite recent scandals that triggered intensive training to prevent the behavior.
Up to 6 percent of the women at the Army, Navy and Air Force academies said they experienced sexual assault during the 2004-2005 school year, and about half or more said they were sexually harassed, according to a survey released Friday by the Pentagon.
The Pentagon's emphasis on training and awareness, however, has not seemed to resonate on the campuses. While nearly all the students said they had received training in sexual assault and harassment prevention, half to two-thirds said it was either slightly or not at all effective in preventing the incidents.
The impact of increased training was most evident at the Air Force campus in Colorado Springs, Col., where reports of rape by dozens of women triggered the 2003 scandal. According to the new survey, Air Force cadets reported a lower percentage of women students who said they were either sexually assaulted or harassed than the other two military academies. Four percent of the Air Force women said they were assaulted, while 49 percent said they were harassed.
Cadets at the U.S. Military Academy in West Point, N.Y., reported the highest number of assaults and sexual harassment. According to the survey, 6 percent of the women were sexually assaulted, and nearly two-thirds were sexually harassed. Of those assaulted, about 4 in 10 reported it. And among those who reported it, nearly 40 percent said they experienced repercussions.
At the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md., 5 percent of the women said they were assaulted and 59 percent said they were sexually harassed.
The Air Force Academy cadets reported that the situation there is improving. The survey said that 81 percent of the female cadets and 87 percent of the men said sexual assault was less of a problem in the 2004-2005 school year than when they enrolled. Similar numbers said sexual harassment was less of a problem. Those percentages were well above those for the other two military academies.
``We are reviewing the findings carefully and examining our policies, programs and leadership efforts to determine how such incidents can be prevented and to ensure we respond effectively if they do occur,'' said David S. C. Chu, under secretary of defense for personnel and readiness.
More than 5,300 students at the three military academies were surveyed, and about 85 percent responded.
One sexual assault is one too many. And the women at the academies are going to be officers, peers and colleagues. This has to come to a halt.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/24/2005 00:00 ||
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Steve,
I sympathize with the comment but I think you're dreaming. It's not going to come to a halt because the government has created a situation where gasoline and sparks are in constant close proximity. The combustible atmosphere WILL get above LEL (often due to the introduction of booze) and there WILL be explosions. It's going to happen. All that can be done is to try to minimize the number of them by punishing the offenders harshly.
Posted by: mac ||
12/24/2005 7:24 Comments ||
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#2
There's another approach too. You could also stop this sort of shit. Not the article, but the puerile need to immediately turn a story about women warriors into phallic bombs straddled by big boobs.
That shit has consequences - it tells others it's just fine and dandy to treat women soldiers first and foremost as porn objects, even if the story is about women fighting and in some cases dieing in combat.
You want to jack off over pictures of women with guns, fine. Do it in private, do it with pics of civilian shooters - but if you turn a story about women in combat into a jerkoff opportunity, don't even try to tell me you support our female troops.
I suspect we'll be getting to that right after we wrap up the war on drugs and end drunk driving deaths.
It would be interesting to compare the percentages for the academies to similar surveys for the Ivy Leagues. Somehow, I expect the academies would come out looking pretty good. But it's not as much fun to beat up on the Ivies; they're on the MSM isde and the academies are the enemy.
By choosing to eliminate single sex schools, we have exacerbated this problem. It may well have been worth it in toto, but there are consequences, forseen and unforseen, that we live with.
#4
Sexual harrassment is a term that covers a lot of ground from true situations to dillusional fantasies. Just as harsh words is now considered torture. They need to be a bit more specific before I can work up any kind of froth over this.
Were the 6 percent asked out for a cup of coffee by trolls and found the offer unwanted and thus potentially sexual harrassment? Or where they fondled on their way to class? Big difference, the first should see the female tossed out because they don't have what it takes to serve and the second should see the male tossed out because they are brainless.
#5
rjs, the definition of harassment was NOT trivialized, there have been suspensions / expulsions / courts martial and in one case a prison sentence over this and it's being take pretty seriously by very senior leaders in DOD.
6% of the women cadets at West Point = roughly 30 women who had been assaulted. That's at a single snapshot in time, i.e. it represents 1 class with 3 1/2 yrs there, 1 class with 2 1/2 yrs etc. The total number of sexual assaults since women were admitted is presumably much higher.
This is not and is not being treated as a political issue, first and foremost. It is a military discipline issue and in some cases, a Uniform Code of Military Justice issue.
So don't bother working up a froth if it's too much trouble. Those of us who know the women who were assaulted and for whom this is a lot more than just a chance to show our non-political-correctness chops will take care of the real issues which bear directly on our professional military force.
Re: the article -- Wanna wager on whether or not the percentages bandied about in this article aren't in line with those everywhere else? Aw fuck it, you're not interested in honesty, just your sensitive button being pushed.
Okay. Well, as one of the resident shit magnets, I'm gonna get killed for this, but hey - somebody's gotta say it. So come on, all you pieces of shit who can't handle it, lol, come to Poppa.
Fact: Everyone is wired for sex. Yep. Even you, SPIT. Go figure, eh?
You can pretend that you are more "civilized" and everyone who doesn't share your particular mindset is broken, but the fact is - it's very possible that you're the one who's broken. A male's automatic response to two softly rounded shapes in the right position on a femalian is absolutely automatic. Don't like it? Go talk to your God. He/She/It created the wiring.
It's what people do about the urges and fantasies and attractions that matters. You don't have any of those? If not, then you are definitely broken - Nature trumped by the PC Squad. If you do, well then, join the Human Race. Actions. That's what matters, both in law and in reality, though it's an inconvenience has been wildly skewed by the PCism rampant in the West. In other words, what floats your boat today will sink it tomorrow...
1) Some laugh it off, as we did in that thread.
2) Some follow up their autonomic urges with actions, such as harassing, molesting, raping, and all of the other twisted responses to the natural urge. Then, in the most egregious ironic twist, thanks to the PC Squad, they get a pass - pseudo-rehabilitated and turned loose to prey again. Where did the brainpower and self-discipline they lack go? That's easy: they come from a fuckwit self-destructive socio-engineered PC-blindered disaster which has decreed that there is no guilt, except for disagreeing with them, of course, and no failure, except for not taking their agenda far enough.
3) And some get their panties in a bunch and spew in a blame game, painting with the broadest brush they can find. Brilliant response. Congratulations, you're *PC* Approved... sorta, for now.
If the PCism was removed from our society, you'd see the molesters treated appropriately - castration (whether chemical or physical) or death. In other words, they would be permanently prevented from re-offending. We would also not have self-righteous "SPIT" posts.
The fact is, in my not even remotely humble opinion, our society has become far too lenient and created a multi-edged sword of tolerance/intolerance. That which should not be tolerated is not only tolerated, it is celebrated and allowed to live to prey again. And there's the tolerated intolerance of a class of people who are convinced their shit doesn't stink, such as you, so they're free to paint all with the brush of their personal demons. But never fear, the PC Social Engineers have an answer for everything... Witness the current move to de-certify anything as actually offensive. A social engineer's wet dream. Offended? Well then, instead of punishing offenders and removing their ability to re-offend, just eliminate the social rules and stigma - from the offender, of course. Voilà ! No offense should be taken because nothing is offensive! Got a problem with that? Here, take 2 of these 4 times a day and take an anger management or sensitivity course. Big point on the old resume and, well, absurd in every way. You know, you should be careful, SPIT, you're behind the curve a bit, there. Can't be too thin, too rich, too gay, too tolerant, or too picky these days. It's all the rage, y'know. Yeah, well, fuck 'em. It's time to throw off this disaster, instead of placing bet after bet on an obviously losing hand. The same exquisitely crafted decadence that we deride in the EU support of the Paleos, endless diplo-dances, etc., both cloaks you in a mantle of self-righteousness and also demands that you tolerate everything except honesty and justice. I'm being honest. I demand justice for actual offenses, acts, not manufactured outrage. My bad.
Bullshit - to your spew and to the PC nitwits who mandate that we should not kill that which should be killed. You may be an otherwise solid rational person, but this pushed one of your personal buttons and you spewed bile at those who have their behavior under control and take the laughter / banter approach to laugh it off. If even that is unacceptable - too fucking bad - this is America... at least for the moment. That will pass, of course, if we maintain this track. I am one of those for whom you have such misplaced bile to dispense and, gosh, I don't appreciate it. I am somewhat sorry for whatever experience created your button, but -> I <- didn't do it, so fuck off. Work out your personal problems in public and you get a personal answer in reply - in public.
I once worked on a contract for a woman who had a hand-lettered sign centered on the wall above her chair:
"Sexual Harassment is not encouraged, but neither is it forbidden. Grades will be issued - and posted."
She was smart as hell, a great Team Leader, a great programmer, drop-dead gorgeous, and did not suffer fools. Neither do I. My 3 month contract was renewed 11 times. I'd happily wade through 10 million PC twits with a broadsword to save her from the slightest inconvenience, too. I wouldn't give you the time of day.
I do note that you don't ever seem to have assumed responsibility for military leadership, so it's not entirely clear to me that you understand the real issues here.
But, I gather you DO understand the ... opportunities ... afforded by sexual instincts and responses.
It's a free country, do as you like - which seems to include being able to handle women ONLY in sexual terms and to suggest they are inadequate and not normal if they disagree with you.
It's certainly true that I'm at a disadvantage discussing this with you, since I spend most of my time around men who mangage to be mature, sexually active and attractive AND disciplined.
But hey - you say instinct is all, and if that condom fits (i.e. if it's not too big) go ahead and wear it.
And I will continue to call things as I see them in practice, on the ground, with regard to our female soldiers.
#11
equally outraged at beefcake calendars and pics?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/24/2005 13:12 Comments ||
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#12
.com's attempt at diversion notwithstanding, I've never expressed outrage at soft porn in general.
What I *am* saying is that quick diversion of discussion about women in combat on Thursday into girlie pics trivializes the service and in some cases sacrifice of women soldiers.
And, I am saying that attitude feeds into the assaults and harassment that women soldiers are facing in various places, including (as illustrated by the stats above) at our military academies.
.com and perhaps others would like to deflect that by suggesting I am sexually inadequate or denying my sexual nature. It's an old, tired attack that misses the point.
No, I don't have a problem with beefcake. I believe the research suggests that men respond to visual sex images more often and more strongly than women, on average, but hey - if beefcake's your thing, go for it.
The issue here is invoking cheesecake and soft porn specifically -- and immediately, as in the Thursday thread -- when the issue of women in combat is discussed. THAT's the source of outrage -- not only because it trivializes female soldiers, but also because that attitude has very real consequences over time.
#13
I think I know .com pretty well after a couple years' contributions, and he meant humor and snarkiness rather than disparaging female contributions or adequacy IMHO. Part of Rantburg is knowing the commenters, their quirks (I personally am a cynical, semi-humorous jerk) and historys. Not to deny the validity of your outrage...just 'splaining
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/24/2005 13:31 Comments ||
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#14
Much of the problem is based in the concept of the military academy. It is obvious that academies are anachronistic in many ways. Most evident in that they recruit from "the best and the brightest", with intent to produce "the best and the brightest."
Then why are academy graduates often despised when they enter active duty? It is not envy. They already have two strikes against them. Both enlisted and other officers hold them in general disdain, until proven otherwise.
Many see them as either offensively "hard-assed" and egotistical, especially to subordinates; or as disheveled and disordered individuals.
A military historian I know has described the academies as "initiative-destroying" institutions, with tunnel vision when teaching military history and philosophy. He went to West Point after having reviewed an ROTC military science program at a major state university. He reported that the West Point cadets received a typical education that could have been obtained at a better small university, and yet their military training was inferior to ROTC.
He said that the difference was that between being taught militarism and militantcy. The academy cadets spent far too much time on useless endeavors such as drill and ceremonies and other uniform skills. ROTC cadets almost never wore dress uniforms and spent the vast majority of their time learning or practicing combat skills. Uniform skills were pro forma, and had little respect from the ROTC cadets.
At the time he was at West point, the singular emphasis in historical tactics was the US Civil War. At the ROTC course, the students had been taught about Vietnam, Korea, the Burma Campaign, the Battle of the Bulge, and Austerlitz, and were given several Cold War scenarios for which they were to write essays projecting possible outcomes.
Much of what the ROTC cadets created had to conform to the US Ranger School Operations/Patrol Order format. As much as 2/3rds of their semester weekends were spent in Field Training Exercises, and they even provided OPFOR services for the area National Guard and Reserve units, involving airborne operations, counterinsurgency tactics, the use of CS and smoke, and POW and interrogation training. Their primary trainer was a Special Forces Master Sergeant. Officers usually taught classroom.
So are the academies a bad thing? Only so far as they ruin potentially good officers. It would be better that they be reorganized and kept modern to reflect the current needs of the military.
I pointed out some facts - honest and relevant facts - that both responded directly to your misplaced bile and anger, as well as the topic of this story. Remember, this story is the point, the topic at hand.
That my observations do not add to your desired groundswell of outrage do not make them off-topic or even off-point - in fact, I am on-topic - and you are not.
Factually speaking, making this thread a personal piss & splatter festival for your personal issues by addressing a previous RB story and comments on that thread which pushed your personal bandstand button are trollage.
My post mostly addressed the underlying issues for such actions - regardless of the venue, i.e. Military Academy or elsewhere. I made the mistake of addressing your piss-fest directly. My bad.
#18
Frank, .com has a couple chips on his shoulder. And he gets very personal with his attacks as soon as one of those massive chips gets jostled a little - often only in his imagination.
Wanna wager on whether or not the percentages bandied about in this article aren't in line with those everywhere else? Aw fuck it, you're not interested in honesty, just your sensitive button being pushed.
As it happens, I do know how the stats at the military academies stack up with standard undergraduate schools. Exactly which one of us isn't interested in facts or honesty? I'm working off of firsthand knowledge. .Com is working off of massive assumptions and a lot of direct personal attacks on me.
Factually speaking, making this thread a personal piss & splatter festival for your personal issues by addressing a previous RB story and comments on that thread which pushed your personal bandstand button are trollage.
Deflecting discussion that ties together articles at RB on a military topic by labeling them a "piss & splatter festival for (my) personal issues" ... now THAT qualifies as trolling.
Oh, and .com - I never said you committed the offenses mentioned in this article. I did say - and continue to say - that IMNSHO the girlie pics and the sexual innuendo in the Thursday thread (in which you participated, including a link to a NSFW soft porn pic) trivializes women soldiers and soldiers, especially when posted in direct response to a discussion of women in combat.
And THAT in turn - not just here but when repeated a lot of places by a lot of people in various ways - sets the conditions which foster the assaults and harassment that women soldiers and cadets are facing.
There's PC bullshit out there to be sure - RJS's comment about being asked for cofee a case in point.
But then there's actual responsibility for the indirect consequences of our actions. And just because someone somewhere got all PC on some issue doesn't mean there aren't times when the criticism is valid.
#19
One of my teenagers is college bound next fall and submitted applications to five colleges, three of which any of you would surely recognize. I had a crime concern about one of them because it was in an urban area, so I Googled crime statistics for the campus and found that there was a crime problem, including sexual assault and rape. So then I Googled crime statistics for one of the rural campuses and -- surprise, surprise -- the crime rates were pretty much the same in all categories. And then I did another, and another...
It's not just a military school issue: it's a societal issue. And it doesn't end on graduation day in the civilian world either.
#20
Darrel, I think it goes to my point that until they seperate the crimes from the regrets you get misleading stats. Currently on College compuses they lump date rapes together with real rapes. Date rapes can be real crimes, and they area also next morning regrets.
People stand with the early morning regretters because the crime is so vile and person if real and they prefer not to imagine a world where someone would make such a false claim. That doesn't take away the fact that many false claims are made, lives ruined, and we still look at the same stats and say my god its dangerous out there.
#22
aaUSMA - You imply the percentages are not in line with other institutions. Hmmmm. No proof offered.
Y'know, even if you do begin to offer links to back up your base-line assertions, I've come to see you as someone who wouldn't hesitate to cherry-pick to suit. You have your ego on the line here, obviously. The chips on my shoulders are no different from yours (and you obviously have them), where they actually exist, lol. And that's the funniest bit - you don't know where to attack - this, or any disapproval of me, lol, isn't one of them. To mix metaphors, I work on my chips regularly, turning sacred cows into BBQ at every opportunity. Mesquite chips, lol. I recommend the diet to you. You need it.
You are trolling by hijacking this thread and you are myopically presenting your hot-button opinions as fact, though couched in some nice grammar.
Do my posts constitute denigration of females in uniform? I dunno, I don't think so, having served and never having had any problems of any kind whatsoever with my femalian peers. Gosh, being honest sounds so much less authoritative and official and impressive. *frown* Mebbe I should adopt your pretentious tone of self-assured puffery.
Wait! I know! Why don't you ask the woman in the pic that started the snarking? She's in uniform, mostly. Apparently she has no difficulty with being a soldier and a female at the same time. Why, I'd wager she thinks that the game you're playing is rather more a rhetorical exercise in your fevered mind, from beginning to end, than a valid outrage. But I'm sure you'd say she's already adopted her victimized situation and doesn't know any better. Poor thing - broken and in need of your fixes and doesn't even know that she's a tool of people like me and in need of being saved by your likes. Damn! But hey my bad, I'm adding to the thread hi-jacking you initiated.
Your moral superiority is phoney and faux, but finger-wagging is very fashionable - and you're a natural.
My curiosity itch is approaching infinity... If you aren't RKB / lotp, then color me surprised. Would any other of the RB Mods like to state, factually and publicly, that this isn't? Color me very curious. A third nym would be trollage, methinks. Everything, and I mean everything, fits to a "T".
#23
Ima gonna piss a lot of people off. You want to get rid of harrassment of women in the military academies? Unfortunately, the solutions are all harsh and politically unacceptable:
* Put them in separate barracks.
* No men in the women's barracks or vice versa. If they want to study together, they do it in supervised study rooms.
* Don't admit women unless they pass the Army Physical Readiness Test under the _male_ standards. Whether you were a male or a female, the number one way for you to get harrassed while I was a cadidiot was to fall out of a run, fall out of a road march, or fail an APFT. In fact, 90% of the harrassment that I witnessed while I was there was directed at females who were physically weak.
* All social contact is chaperoned.
Now I'm not an absolute fool and I know that my recommendations have snow ball's chance in hell of being adopted, but there you have it from a bona fide survivor of the South Hudson Institute of Technology. What I find interesting from reading this thread is how we've come to take post-modernism for granted, as if somehow changing the narrative can overcome 18-year-old hormones, 3-4 billion years of evolution, and 20,000 years of warrior ethos and the associated memes.
In general, the harrassment that I witnessed there (and yes I did occasssionally see women harrassing men... cadets are very aggressive people) disgusted me. It was a small but important contributor to my decision to join the infantry -- I just didn't want to deal with it anymore. Women are never going away in the military. A lot of them do a good job. But if you want to stop the harrassment, either you must change human nature* or segregate them. Nothing else will work.
* I suppose that someday there'll be a psychotropic drug that will turn every 18-year old into a virtual 50-year-old so that harrassment goes away. We'll diagnose horny teens as pre-sex offenders, put then on Argaiv (Viagra spelled backwards) and we'll all live happily ever after.
#24
I'm not pissed, 11A5S, lol. The truth is a joy to behold, though we are not always sufficiently appreciative, lol. What we do about it is what remains - and where we separate the wymyns from the grrlz and the myns from the boyz.
#25
"someday there'll be a psychotropic drug that will turn every 18-year old into a virtual 50-year-old"
As the father of three teenagers, puuleeeeease put me on the waiting list for three doses!
#26
'moose, the question of the role/value of the academies is a different topic. One perhaps worth pursuing at another time ... who is the historian?
FWIW the commandant at USMA has significantly increased live fire military exercises for all the cadets.
11A5S, I understand where you're coming from. I doubt you'll get much disagreement from the majority at RB.
We'll see what the military looks like 20 years from now and whether the physical standards play the same role. Clearly they always will for infantry type roles, at least until we have bionics or gene-engineering .... 75+ lb packs over rough terrain is a recipe for broken pelvises in many women.
Whether you were a male or a female, the number one way for you to get harrassed while I was a cadidiot was to fall out of a run, fall out of a road march, or fail an APFT. In fact, 90% of the harrassment that I witnessed while I was there was directed at females who were physically weak
Don't know when you were there. But a recent female grad who told me about a multiple-try assault attempt on her is a black belt in judo and was a very fine shot long before she got to the Hudson Valley. She never reported it officially because her cadet company commander was in her opinion a total jerk. (I knew him and I see her point.) FWIW etc etc.
#27
Darrell perhaps your statistics are more honest than the ones I've seen. Often the numbers include those made to administrations that do not go into the legal system. The fact that the claim is made ensures the perp is kicked out of school.
The fact that criminal charges are not brought up shows to me that the crime is not as serious as it should be. I understand how tough it must be for a rape victim to come forward and deal with the trials, and I suspect that is the rational for not prosecuting the perps, but the system usually used on universities also makes false accusations incredibly easy to make.
#28
angry at USMA: I agree my point was too vague, that the military academies are anachronistic in many ways, not just in their military training.
That is, they are 19th Century artifacts. The West Point uniform dates to the war of 1812, I believe.
The institution is founded on the principals of the alma mater (lit. "nourishing mother", but practically, "foster mother").
In those days, students were forbidden to be married. Chaperones were ubiquitous. As late as the 1940s at other universities, students were also forbidden to have cars or live off-campus among many other restrictions.
So, in effect, the military academies try to take modern high school students and put them in a chaste environment full of rigid regimentation.
High school students with a high expectation of personal freedom and sexual expression. Hard enough with only a single sex.
But when females were introduced, it was done with the attitude that the system could work just as well with both sexes as it could one. Combine the monastery and the convent, yet demand that both behave as if nothing is different.
So what it boils down to is to spend increasing amounts of money to deny that there is a problem and force chastity among the unwilling; or to accept that social change has made it acceptable for unmarried males and females to have sexual relationships.
It is not the mission of the military to enforce morality that does not affect the order and discipline of its personnel. And this even transcends the concept of morality, to much of what is "trained" at the academies. If it is not of benefit to the military, it is frivolous militarism.
#29
But a recent female grad who told me about a multiple-try assault attempt on her is a black belt in judo and was a very fine shot long before she got to the Hudson Valley. She never reported it officially because her cadet company commander was in her opinion a total jerk.
Then why didn't she report it to her TAC or TAC NCO? Just curious, not an ambush attempt.
Weird shit happens in those barracks at night, a@USMA. I had a drunk male upperclassman stumble into my bed one night. To this day I'm not sure if he was just incredibly blitzed or looking to play Brokeback Mountain. I wasn't sticking around to find out. I also had a woman cadet, who we all assumed was gay, come on to me one night. It was a clumsy attempt, and even with many years of intervening experience, I'm still not 100% sure since I beat feet out of that situation, too. Maybe her hanging out with the lesbians was just a defense mechanism, lack of self esteem, etc.
And yes, besides harrassment, there was all kinds of consensual straight and lesbian sex going on in the barracks. Young adults are young adults. They will find a way to have sex. And these are highly screened, highly indoctrinated young people. I shudder to think what goes on in your typical second-tier state school co-ed dorm. They need to be segregated.
#30
Then why didn't she report it to her TAC or TAC NCO? Just curious, not an ambush attempt.
I can only speculate on that. But, note that 60% of the assaults were not reported. The current Supe has put in place new DPOMs that make reporting easier, through more channels, and offer a way to get confidential medical help, counselling etc. if they don't want to report officially and trigger an investigation.
I was pretty dismayed only to hear about those 2 attempts after this woman graduated and was commissioned. I had been her sponsor for 3 years and we were pretty close, she asked me to pin her rank on after her oath .... probably the only reason she told me even afterwards.
She'll be fine, volunteered for and was one of the small % of non-combat arms grads to make it into an early rotation of BOLC II at Benning, which she loved and did well at from what I hear. Branched MP and will be kickass. Got good feedback/acceptance from her soldiers and NCO during CTLT. Dad was a sniper in Nam, her attitude about troops is what it ought to be.
For graduation I got her a range bag, really good hearing protection and some other goodies for her privately-owned sidearm. Her unit was due to rotate back to Iraq in a few weeks, but I haven't found out yet if they are still going. Either way, she was a little rusty compared to how well she shot before coming to USMA and I wanted to encourage her to put in some additional range time.
Now if her unit could get permission to carry .45s instead of the Berettas ....
Posted by: wondering too at USMA ||
12/24/2005 17:26 Comments ||
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#31
If the posts above are anywhere close to accurate, it cerainly shows that leadership at Westpoint needs a full clean-out. One set of standards, no exceptions. And zero tolerance for anyone that violates them.
To be totally honest, Pointers are far more likely to be jerks than the ROTC 2nd Lts I have had to "break in" during my enlisted days. Pointers were far less likely to listen, more evasive about admitting when they didn't know something, and out & out jackasses when confronted.
Don't get me wrong - once broken of the "snob" factors, they do turn out to be fine officers.
But I'd rather have a Citadel or VMI grad any day over a Pointer. Those places turn out leaders not just officers.
India is hopeful that most outstanding issues in its nuclear pact with the United States will be wrapped up by the time President George W. Bush visits the country in early March, a news channel reported today.
Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Bush had reached an understanding in July 2004 that the U.S. would supply fuel for Indian nuclear reactors, while India would place facilities associated with its civilian nuclear energy programme under international inspection.
India's foreign secretary Shyam Saran, who held talks with U.S. officials in Washington earlier this week, is expected to return with draft legislation to be presented by the Bush government for approval by Congress.
"If both sides are reasonably satisfied with this as also certain changes and guidelines of the Nuclear Suppliers' Group, it is possible to move forward," India's national security advisor M.K. Narayanan said in an interview to NDTV news channel.
"I don't think it (presentation of legislation to Congress) will happen before Bush comes to India. But by the time he comes, which hopefully will be in early March, most of the issues will be sorted out," Narayanan said.
Narayanan clarified that India's commitment to put nuclear facilities under international inspection would not compromise its strategic programme.
The U.S. had imposed curbs on the transfer of nuclear technology to India after the latter tested nuclear devices in 1998.
Posted by: john ||
12/24/2005 11:49 ||
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Link ||
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#1
The U.S. had imposed curbs on the transfer of nuclear technology to India after the latter tested nuclear devices in 1998.
The curbs actually date from the weeks after the 1974 Indian nuclear test.
What Bush and Rice are proposing is a radical departure from decades of US foreign policy.
Posted by: john ||
12/24/2005 13:28 Comments ||
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#2
What Bush and Rice are proposing is a radical departure from decades of US foreign policy.
So was getting into a military alliance with the Soviet Union in 1941.
Sure is a good thing Perv is rushing all that aid to the quake zone.
ISLAMABAD - Thousands of Pakistanâs quake survivors are caught in a desperate struggle for survival in the Himalayan cold and need urgent help, an international aid group said on Friday. âThe falling temperatures could be lethal,â British-based Oxfam director Barbara Stocking told a news conference after a tour of areas ravaged by the October 8 earthquake in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir and northwestern province.
Around 1,000 US troops and NATO units have been helping Pakistan in relief and rehabilitation efforts of survivors, shuttling supplies by helicopter and treating the injured at field hospitals.
Stocking called for an enhanced international response to the United Nation appeal for around 550 million dollars, launched in November, which had so far brought in only 40 percent of the needed funds. Children are falling sick in the freezing temperatures suffering from respiratory ailments while heating has been a problem because of the risk of tent fire, Stocking said.
She said Oxfam had provided shelter to 127,000 people and improved water and sanitation conditions for some 150,000. âThere is so much more that needs to be done urgently. We need to improve conditions in the spontaneous camps and reach those who have stayed further up the mountain,â she said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/24/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Go to your local Library, find all the Islamic religious books and texts, burn them for warmth,
You'll be better off than ever before.
While you're there check out a book on house construction, read it, use your new knowledge instead of wasting your time praying.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
12/24/2005 10:00 Comments ||
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#2
Here is a solution: use the radars on board the Ericsson AWACS to warm the survivors with their microwave emissions. Do the same with the F-16 radars - give one fighter to each village.
Five billion dollars well spent.
Posted by: john ||
12/24/2005 10:53 Comments ||
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#3
Here is a solution: use the radars on board the Ericsson AWACS to warm the survivors with their microwave emissions. Do the same with the F-16 radars - give one fighter to each village.
Good idea John, just make sure to puncture them with a fork so they don't pop
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/24/2005 12:02 Comments ||
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#4
"Around 1,000 US troops and NATO units have been helping..."
Meanwhile, the UN says "send us your money," Iran says "it's a myth," and Saudi Arabia is funding mosques in Los Angeles and Chicago. Musharraf needs to rethink his priorities and then give himself another pretty medal.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
SOFIA - Bulgaria and Libya will set up a special fund for AIDS-infected children in Libya, where five Bulgarian nurses have been sentenced to death in an AIDS-related affair, the foreign ministry said on Friday. The announcement came two days before the five, along with a Palestinian doctor, are to appear before Libyaâs supreme court to appeal their convictions for âknowinglyâ transfusing AIDS-contaminated blood into more than 400 children.
