New US ambassador to Yemen, Thomas Charles Krajeski, has taken up office here, the SABA news agency reported. President Ali Abdullah Saleh received Krajeski's credentials as an ambassador of the United States, said the agency.
Boy. Who'd Krajeski cheese off?
Saleh met with Krajeski in Sanaa to discuss mutual relations and aspects of joint cooperation between the two countries. Krajeski, 54, has 15 years of diplomatic experience in the Arab region, including postings in Egypt, Tunisia and the United Arab Emirates. Fluent in Arabic, Krajeski takes over from Edmund J. Hull, who headed the US mission in Sanaa for the past three years, a period during which fighting terrorism was the cornerstone of Yemeni-US relations.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/17/2004 6:10:44 PM ||
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EFL: The Army's two heavy divisions in Germany, the 1st Armored and 1st Infantry divisions, will relocate to the United States, but not for at least two to three years, Pentagon officials said Monday. "From a very realistic standpoint, this would mean that families living overseas now — perhaps halfway through their tours — will more than likely not be affected by this move," said a Pentagon official who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They'll finish their tour and come 'home' before the wheels start moving on the process. Moving vans won't be pulling up next week."
But, unfortunately, building maintenace will most likely stop.
The earliest that troops will be pulled from Germany will be 2006, after the process of realigning and closure of stateside bases is under way, said senior defense and state department officials who spoke Monday of with reporters at the Pentagon on condition of anonymity. Exactly when and where those divisions will move to depends on results of the independent commission studying Base Realignment And Closure, the official said. By May 2005, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld must submit to the commission a list of selected bases. While BRAC does not affect overseas bases, it will be a factor in where the military will redeploy overseas forces. Between 1988 and 1995, four BRAC commissions proposed changes to 152 major installations and 235 smaller ones.
The senate was trying to add overseas basing to the review list.
After a three-year study, Pentagon plans to move many as 70,000 U.S. troops over the next decade and about 100,000 family members and civilian employees, President Bush announced Monday while speaking at the Veterans of Foreign War convention in Cincinnati. "Over the coming decade we'll deploy a more agile and more flexible force, which means that more of our troops will be stationed and deployed from here at home," Bush said. "We will move some of our troops and capabilities to new locations so they can surge quickly to deal with unexpected threats." The reposturing of forces will have no impact on lengths of tour of troops now deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, officials said. The Army's V Corps will stay in Germany, and will "be restructured to be more deployable and will have a number of combat elements associated," said a senior defense official said. A much lighter and rapidly deployable Stryker brigade will be stationed in Germany and "associated" with V Corps, he said, without providing further details.
They probably haven't figured them yet...
The 173rd Airborne Brigade in Vicenza, Italy, is gaining a brigade, and two F-16 squadrons will remain each at Aviano Air Base in Italy and Spangdahlem Air Base in Germany, the official said. Those not sent to stateside bases could move posts in Eastern Europe, though most likely for shorter deployment and likely without families, officials said. But, "we're not looking to take forces ⊠in Europe today and station them in the East," a defense official said. The reposturing of troops is not intended to eventually lead to a draw down in end-strength.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/17/2004 2:35:42 PM ||
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Alarm bells rang among German business groups on Monday after President George W. Bush announced plans to bring home up to 70,000 U.S. troops from Europe and Asia. The Chamber of Industry and Commerce in Bamberg, home to one large U.S. base, said: "It's not just the withdrawal of thousands of troops, but also of their families."
"Well, Helga. There goes the knicknack business."
"We might as well pack up and move to Bulgaria, Fritz."
"Initially, the retail trade would bear the brunt, but it would also have an affect on services, such as sports centres or swimming pools," said a chamber official. Bush announced plans to bring home the troops within a decade in a major realignment that Democrats said was politically motivated in an election year.
Anything Bush does, to include breathing in and out, will be interpreted as politically motivated by the Dems. I think most of us saw this coming sometime early last year, and the clouds forming in mid- to late-2002...
"The world has changed a great deal and our posture must change with it," Bush said of his plan for one of the biggest shifts of U.S. forces since the Cold War. Germany is home to 70,000 U.S. troops, many in the south of the country along the Rhine or in Bavaria, although some 20,000 soldiers normally based in Gemany are currently on active service elsewhere, notably in Iraq. The U.S. has made it clear that the Ramstein Air Base and the Landstuhl Medical facility, both much used during the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts, will remain, along with an army training facility.
Grafenwoehr Training Area, I believe they are also getting a Stryker brigade.
A number of army bases are clearly under threat.
1st Armored and 1st Infantry coming back to states, don't know where. Rhein-Main AB being totally turned over to Germans.
Edmund Stoiber, premier of Bavaria, which has many bases, said he feared that many U.S. soldiers would leave the state. "The plans have been on the table for some time, but now they are unfortunately firming up," he said. Germany has already seen some impact in the early 1990s when the U.S. Army cut its force in Europe to fewer than 150,000 from 210,000. However, that was in part compensated for by an economic upturn.
In the U.S. or Germany? I thought they were busy getting indigestion from East Germany back then?
Addressing the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Ohio, Bush said more troops would eventually be stationed in the United States, and those remaining overseas would have more combat power to "surge quickly to deal with unexpected threats." He said base closings would also save American taxpayers' money.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/17/2004 7:23:11 AM ||
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#1
The only downside to this is that TGA may be affected. However, Rantburgers are a tough lot, keeping their heads together while others are losing theirs, so he'll do fine, regardless.
#3
They'll get over it. In the long run, from an economic standpoint, they're better off without military bases. Germany isn't the Philippines - they'll figure something out. I'm just glad the boys are coming home from a country that views America with contempt.
#4
Sure, for the local communities the impact will be felt, and those regions are traditionally very U.S. friendly (which isn't just a money issue).
Germany doesn't view America with contempt. George Bush has few friends here, that's true, but the same could be said for Massachusetts.
What I feel sorry about it is that transatlantic bonds that have formed over 50 years will suffer. If barely any American remains in Germany a lot of Germans will take a more disaffected view towards America.
Fact is, we'll still need each other, maybe more than never.
Btw I still consider Mr Stoiber as one of the major players for chancellor in 2006.
#5
TGA - the affect is no differenct than communities here in the US that lost a base in the 90's.
If barely any American remains in Germany a lot of Germans will take a more disaffected view towards America.
This says more about Germans than Americans. If the only goodwill is based around having thousands of our troops based there something is fundamentally wrong with the relationship.
We need a posture that fits best with our needs as well as our allies. And having thousands of troops on garrison duty in Germany really does not fit todays world.
Posted by: Dan ||
08/17/2004 15:50 Comments ||
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Nope Dan, that's just human nature. You care more about people, things, events closer to you.
It's not a coincidence that in Texas Germans are liked more... and that increases the closer you get to the bases where German pilots are training (and feeding the locals Nutella and Gummi Bears).
#7
And of course the German presence in south Texas has more to do with immigration around 1900and before than any thing later. Surprised me whin I started visiting about 1970 thru now........
Posted by: dorf ||
08/17/2004 21:01 Comments ||
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#8
Kant spel either.......... Dorf is a dyslexic sPelling of fORD,,,,,,,,,
Posted by: dorf ||
08/17/2004 21:04 Comments ||
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(2004-08-16) -- President George Bush today announced that the United States would begin "drawing down" its military forces in Germany, signaling the impending end of the U.S. occupation of post-Third Reich Germany and thus the official end of World War II.
"The dictator is gone and it's time for the German people to chart their own course," said Mr. Bush. "Their land is now safe for democracy and our mission is accomplished."
Meanwhile, Democrat presidential candidate John Forbes Kerry said he would have voted to give authority to the president to remove troops from Germany, "but I oppose the way the president is going about it."
"It's good that the dictator is gone, and that World War II is over" said Mr. Kerry, who is also a U.S. Senator, "but does the president have a plan to win the peace?"
Posted by: Korora ||
08/17/2004 12:01:54 AM ||
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#1
Can we get a final tally on our losses now?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/17/2004 0:42 Comments ||
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International A.N.S.W.E.R. is having another one of those "Bring Our Troops Home Now" rallies in DC on August 29. Wanna bet they have a few "Keep Our Troops In Europe Indefinitely" signs as well?
#3
Actually, SH, there has been a price, excluding WWII. Annually there are loses to training accidents, garrison accidents, and automobile accidents. For the near 60 years of being there, well above the losses we have sustained in the shooting conflict since 9/11.
Posted by: Don ||
08/17/2004 8:07 Comments ||
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If only those troops were home in the States, they could have avoided all those "accidents, garrison accidents, and automobile accidents."
#5
You can count Patton as one of those first casualties of "winning the peace." He died in a car accident in Germany, Dec. '45. Truman should have cut 'n' run then! Truman lied, people died!
Posted by: Dar ||
08/17/2004 11:09 Comments ||
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August 29th, huh? Can I get arrested for "accidently" squirting a protestor with super stinky water from a water-bottle?
hee hee :-)
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 11:29 Comments ||
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B, go check out the Protest Warrior site...I think they are counter protesting. Or drop me an email, maybe I'll come out too.
BRITISH military wags define ex perience as the ability to recognize a mistake the second time you make it. By that measure, we now have abundant experience in Iraq.
We're in Najaf. Again. Once again our troops performed superbly, cornering Muqtada al-Sadr and his gang while inflicting lopsided casualties on these enemies of a rule-of-law Iraq. And once again the cease-fires and negotiations have begun, undercutting our military's achievements.
We could have eliminated Sadr a year ago, when he first embarked upon his campaign of terror. It would have been easy. But our political leaders, exaggerating the possible consequences, lacked the fortitude to take care of a small problem before it became a big one. Now Sadr's a very big problem.
We had another chance this spring, when the Army brought Sadr's Mahdi Army to the brink of annihilation. Again, our civilian leaders folded, choosing to defer the problem until Iraq's interim government took over.
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Posted by: tipper ||
08/17/2004 10:38:37 AM ||
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If you count Fallujah, this is actually our third backdown.
Ralph Peters hits the nail squarely on the head. Of course he laments the fact that we are actually "playing by the rules" that came into force with the handover. The fact that no one inclined to criticize / villify the US believes this fact is a double-whammy. Our military's hands are tied, we are limiting military action to that which Allawi / Ghawar / et al approve, and we are suffering for it. The situation does suck. But that's our tradition: play by the rules, when almost no one else does, and still win.
Someday we will decide, "Aw fuck it." - and the whole lot of asshats had better pray that day is far, far in the future. The gloves will come off, the rules will match up with reality, and a shitload will get one hell of a quick trip to Parafuckingdise.
#3
Please, I beg you, don't fall prey to that worst of all militaristic failings: thinking that victories aren't victories unless they are clear, easy to understand, *emotional* victories.
"Ah-hah, we didn't just beat you, we humiliated you, we degraded you and made you eat dirt. Your children and grandchildren will have to live with your shame and degradation and always know that we are better than they are. We kicked your ass and we feel good about it. Nyah-nyah, you are girly men!"
The difference between a militant and a militarist is that a militant wishes to accomplish a goal, to efficiently accomplish a mission; whereas a militarist craves a "glorious struggle" with a winner and a loser--victory and defeat--and handsome uniforms with young men proving their masculinity.
Najaf or Fallujah as case in point. From a militant's point of view, staggering victories, not just of a battle at hand, but as a trap to lure troublemakers throughout the region into a valley of death, killing them in places away from civilians and to the optimum advantage of the US.
The "peace" then surrendered is instead a less violent war against the militant's supporters--the women and children and old men who cheer the militant and curse the US. The militant cannot fight them directly, nor win them over with bribes, so he leaves them to be ruled over by their precious fanatics--let them enjoy the lash for their foolishness. Once they have tasted King Stork, will they cry out for King Log?
But from a militarists point of view, Fallujah and Najaf are crushing defeats. "Kill them all and level their city" goes the cry. Unfortunate that so many women and children had to be slaughtered, but they HAD TO BE. And yes, it IS what they would have expected, wholesale massacre at the hands of their hated enemies. And that is the rub. The militarist has only the tools of flight or fight. If they resist, then kill them. Or to leave in disgust when everyone hates them, when there are no friends left.
So please, we armchair generals all, let us not assume that our military are fools, or that our political leaders are naive, but instead be patient. Remember that what you hear and see is only a slight fraction of the whole truth, and much distorted by the inked wretches of the media.
#4
Anonymoose--I'm definitely not in the "flatten Fallujah, flatten Najaf" camp, but letting Sadr walk away only to pop up again is absurd policy! His militia may get gutted and splattered all over the walls, but he himself has stood up to the mighty US and survived to be a pain-in-the-ass another day--a moral victory in the eyes of the disgruntled--so the morons rush in to refill the ranks.
Sadr needs to be eliminated before his exploits gain any further notoriety in Iraq. Each time he stands up to the US and walks away his legend grows. If the insurgents see Tater obliterated and succeeded by Spudder, who is subsequently obliterated and succeeded by Tuber, who is subsequently splattered and succeeded by Legume, etc. they will see there is a distinct disadvantage in taking up arms against the Coalition and the new Iraqi government, and they won't have any legendary leader of Robin al-Hood proportions to exhort them. We need to decapitate the movement instead of amputating its limbs.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/17/2004 14:40 Comments ||
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And how effective is "potato boy"? An important axiom is, if ever possible, to choose your enemies. To the typical Shiite, Sadr is immature, unlovely, arrongant, obnoxious and ugly. To follow him, they first have to hold their noses. But how easy would it be if they followed someone even marginally older, wiser or smarter?
Right now, the dummy is a magnet for the worst of Iraq--individuals who would always be looking for an excuse to attack the US. He is also a money pit for Iran, his masters, wasting both what they give him and the talent they send.
Besides the overt culling we're doing, we also have (according to the Israelis) one or two hundred SOG killers in the area, quietly exterminating anything that speaks Farsi. We are also feverishly working behind the scenes both at the Iraqi congress and supressing the Fallujahns and their ilk up north. AND engaged in hostile action along the Syrian border and the western zone. AND watching the Iranian border. AND keeping an eye on the rebel Kurds fighting the Turks.
So what does one potato mean in the balance of things? Not a whole lot. While to the American public it looks like we're being wimpy, the Iraqi on the street is utterly amazed at our goodness compared to that pig. If you read the Iraqi bloggers, they sound like Americans: why don't they go in and kill that idiot? But that is an ideal. We want to convince the vast majority of Iraqis that first of all, killing should be the LAST resort, and second, that democracy runs circles around anything potato boy or Zarqwari could possibly offer. It is not an easy lesson to teach, but we are teaching it.
#6
Well said, Dar. Peters hits the nailhead with these passages:
"And then there is the bogus issue of mosques, which our leaders approach with superstition, not sense. While Najafâs Imam Ali shrine truly is a sacred place, the fact is that there are mosques and there are mosques.
Our unwillingness to target even a derelict neighborhood mosque packed with ammunition, weapons and terrorists is not only militarily foolish â itâs based upon the assumption that Muslims are so stupid that they donât know the rules of their own religion. Thatâs nonsense. They know that mosques arenât supposed to be used as bunkers. But theyâre not going to shout it from the rooftops to help us out.
Were we to destroy a series of local mosques used by terrorists throughout Iraq, there would be an initial outcry â which the media would exaggerate. But it would blow over with remarkable speed. The only lasting effect would be to put the terrorists on notice that we wonât let them make the rules any longer."
I've been saying the same thing for some time now and we need to get down to business in a hurry. Hit the Imam Ali shrine with sleep gas and drag out Sadr for a trial so that he can twist in the breeze next to Saddam.
#7
Anonymoose--Good points, although I do disagree with you on a couple. Let me also say how thankful I am to have a civil debate with someone after all the BS with Gentle, Antigum, Murat, etc.!
I still feel Sadr should be eliminated, and the sooner the better. Yes, we do want to convince the Iraqis that democracy is their best alternative and we don't go around killing people indiscriminately. I think our excellent military has demonstrated that with their strict adherence to the RoE and judicious, almost surgical application of our overwhelming power.
However, I don't think killing should always be the last resort when you're dealing with someone who has demonstrated they're more than eager to kill and will not work within the system. In that case, making it the first resort could have saved us a lot of trouble by not only ending Sadr's reign of terror early but also discouraging similar aspiring thugs.
Remember, we're not talking about different political parties with opposing views--we're talking about a thug who is killing and terrorizing innocent Iraqis and shooting at our men and women in uniform. When lives are in the balance, it's time to take the gloves off.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/17/2004 16:51 Comments ||
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While reasonable people can differ on the best tactics in this situation, think of it from the point of view of the Marines. Tater has now had a second opportunity to kill Americans.
#9
Dar--I still have to give credit where credit is due on this. I truly believe that there are people in the US military and government who really *can* get a handle on both history and the byzantine scheme. Now ordinarily, I am first to cast aspersions on incompetence in the foreign service, aka the State Department--except *this* time.
A four-star general is the Secretary of State. The implications of this are staggering. This is the man who *directed* General Schwartzkopf in the last war. I cannot imagine a more dangerous diplomat than one skilled in the arts of war and realpolitik.
He is confident enough that he doesn't even visit Baghdad, and I would hazard to guess that his subordinates are managed much like a command staff. Screwing up is not optional, and the spider web covers the entire world.
I have also seen monumental changes taking place on the world stage that are so carefully managed that they almost don't make the news radar. For example, the creation of a US military Iraq *command*, a peer of CENTCOM, SOUTHCOM, etc. To create such a command implies that Iraq is to become the new Germany as far as the US military is concerned. And yet, it was done so smoothly that it barely made a ripple. Astounding.
Right now, Najaf and Fallujah have probably been "gamed" into unimportance, along with a thousand other potential trouble situations, and the *real* attention is being paid to such things as the Iranian nuclear problem.
This does not mean that Najaf and Fallujah are being ignored, however. I can imagine enormous yet invisible assets being directed to insure that the outcome is not just good, but the best possible, by dozens of criteria.
Remember when Bush, Sr. referred to "linkage" in international affairs. It was rumored that the Chinese were terrified of Sr., as they believed he knew more about the Chinese "way" than they did themselves. They saw *him* as "inscrutable."
I also suspect it runs in the family.
The United Nations should find ways to demonstrate political independence, regain the neutrality it lost after the Sept. 11 attacks and better communicate with the world's 1 billion Muslims, a top U.N. official said Monday.
I believe they communicate by hollering slogans or blowing things up...
Mark Malloch Brown, administrator of the U.N. Development Program, also said the Arab region, compared with other parts of the world, is stagnating and governments need to reform if they want to compete in the global economy. Malloch Brown was on an official trip to Lebanon, where he met with President Emile Lahoud on Monday. Malloch Brown said the Aug. 19, 2003, suicide bombing on U.N. headquarters in Baghdad, Iraq, that killed 23 people — including U.N. representative Sergio Vieira de Mello — forced the world body to question whether it had compromised its neutrality.
Milking the oil for palaces program didn't compromise its neutrality, of course...
While saying "broadly we don't believe we had," Malloch Brown told The Associated Press the bombing was "indicative of the fact that in this highly polarized post-Sept. 11 world, this sort of 'with us or against us' mentality which has infected both sides has dramatically reduced the space for a neutral third force like the U.N. to operate.
Was the original idea for the UN to be neutral? Didn't the "UN" fight World War II and Korea?
Posted by: Fred ||
08/17/2004 9:03:31 AM ||
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Lol - great comments, Fred! I could add some sexual references, since this article disingenuously refers to this mythical neutrality as if it were akin to virginity, but what occurs to me to write is somewhat indelicate.
*self-control*
The fact that the UN has been screwed, blued, and tattooed by every has-been, wanna-be, roaring mouse, thug, despot, mullah, racist, and Paleo-symp who ever wandered by makes the foolish and absurd drivel sentiments displayed in this "piece" a bit silly. Brown is obviously deluded, deranged, and disingenuous - not to mention a self-righteous parasite - and thus well-suited to be a multi-culti apologist and whining UN Staffer. Good fit.
#2
The United Nations should find ways to demonstrate political independence, regain the neutrality it lost after the Sept. 11 attacks and better communicate with the world's 1 billion Muslims, a top U.N. official said Monday.
In order to lose something, you have to have it first.
#3
"All of it is a steady erosion of the independence of the U.N. and I feel very strongly that we are failing to communicate with a billion Muslims in the world in an effective way."
I got a newsflash for you, bub. The UN can't communicate effectively with anybody.
Is that neutral enough for you?
#4
Neutral . . . between civilization and tyrrany? Between the use of force in defense of innocent life and genocide? Between the rule of law and the rule of men?
That sort of neutrality's not a feature, it's a bug.
"Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them."
--G.W. Bush, 9/20/01
Posted by: Mike ||
08/17/2004 12:28 Comments ||
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IS this asshat English or from North America? Nothing wrong with him a good stumble down a set of stairs won't cure. This is the kind of wussed out thought that has to be stamped out. There is no nutrality when your civilization is under attack mr. asshat.
From Shareeah Question:
I have been hearing some people say that the Jews and Christians are People of the Book. And since they are people of the book, we are not to call them kuffar, mushrikun (pagans) or any other derogatory terms, because Allah called them the People of the Book. May we call the Jews and Christians kuffar or pagans?
Answer:
This question is not unknown. It is part of a growing population of ignorant and unknowing Muslims that have been swept into the interfaith movement. Those in this interfaith movement do not seek to offend their unbelieving friends, so they have given them honourable and majestic titles, rather than the ones of humiliation that Allah has assigned to them,
And the Jews say that `Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah and the Christians say that the Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their words with their mouths and they mouth the words of those who are kuffar from before. Allah curse them for what they lie about. They have taken their priests and their rabbis as lords besides Allah. The Messiah, the son of Mary did not order with anything except that they worship one god. There is no god but He. Glory be to Him from what they are associating in shirk (polytheism). Surat ut-Tawba, ayah 31-32. Allah has also said,
And those that are kuffar from among the Jews and Christians, they are in the Hell fire forever, and they are the worst of creation." Surat ulBayyinah, ayah 6
Only the most ignorant and animal minded individuals would insist that prophet killers (Jews) and Jesus worshippers (Christians) deserve the same right as us. If you want to know the rights of Jews and Christians, read Surat ut-Tawba, ayah 29.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/17/2004 11:57:17 PM ||
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It is part of a growing population of ignorant and unknowing Muslims that have been swept into the interfaith movement. Those in this interfaith movement do not seek to offend their unbelieving friends
Waitasec, the ecumenical interfaith movement actually did something right?! *applause*
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
08/18/2004 3:21 Comments ||
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JAKARTA: The mastermind of the 2002 Bali bombings on Tuesday threatened to kill US President George Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon if he ever gets out of jail, where he is waiting to be executed for his role in the attacks that killed 202 people. Imam Samudra made the comments as six militants jailed over the nightclub bombings had their sentences cut by two months in traditional pardons to mark independence day, authorities said. Samudra's sentence was not affected.
Hopefully that means he'll be dead forever, instead of forever less two months...
"If I am freed, I want to continue my Jihad (holy war)," he yelled from inside his prison cell in Bali to reporters covering independence day festivities at the jail. "I want to kill Bush and if I am freed I will do it, kill Bush. I want to go to Afghanistan. I want to go to Israel and kill Sharon."
"Destroy America in Iraq and liberate Iraq. I am not afraid," he said in footage filmed by Associated Press Television News. Samudra also accused Australia and America of being "the kings of terrorism."
"Indonesia is not really independent at all," he said. "It's under the control of America." Samudra has shown no remorse since his arrest, and regularly shouts out anti-western statements when in earshot of reporters. The six militants who had their sentences reduced were convicted of crimes linked to the attacks, including hiding Samudra while he was on the run from the police, said prison head Tulus Widjajanto. They originally were sentenced to prison terms ranging from three to 16 years. The two-month reductions in the terms were suggested by prison officials and approved by the state.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/17/2004 7:44:49 PM ||
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#1
The mastermind of the 2002 Bali bombings on Tuesday threatened to kill US President George Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon if he ever gets out of jail, where he is waiting to be executed for his role in the attacks that killed 202 people.
So the turd is waiting to be offed, yet he says if he ever gets out of jail.....jailbreak anyone? If anyone tries, his captors should shoot Samudra's ass dead before he gets sprung.
#4
Yea.. go kill George Bush in Afganistan... Ok.
I think we need to put out a hit on this clown just to show them they are safe no where. Not even on death row.
#5
Flamebait, fer cripes sake, set yer sights a little higher. It's Bashir that most needs a case of fast onset lead poisoning. Just like painting a house, you always start at the top.
Sri Lanka's rebel Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam said Tamils are ``losing faith'' in the peace process because of political bickering and power struggles among the country's political parties. ``Tamil people are losing faith in the value of the peace process due to the political contradictions and power struggles in the south,'' said S. P. Thamilchelvan, head of the Liberation Tigers' political division, according to the TamilNet Web site. He was speaking after meeting European Union representatives yesterday in Kilinochchi in northern Sri Lanka. Tamils want peace talks to resume without delay, Thamilchelvan said.
The Tamil Tigers are calling for peace negotiations to resume based on their proposals for an interim self-government in the rebel-controlled north and east of the country. Sri Lanka's President Chandrika Kumaratunga earlier this month went back on an offer to accept the plan as a basis for talks. Her coalition government, which came to power in April, has partners opposed to autonomy for the Tamils. Sri Lanka's government is also allowing paramilitary forces loyal to a renegade commander to operate against the main Liberation Tigers group in the east of the country, Thamilchelvan told the EU envoys, according to the Web site. Peace talks between the government and the rebels stalled in April last year. Both sides are maintaining a cease-fire that came into force in February 2002. Two gunmen yesterday killed a member of the government in the capital, Colombo. The killing is the second this month, after a man said to have worked as a government military operative was shot in front of a department store in the city. The government said last week the political killings threaten the cease-fire agreement. Tamils make up less than one-fifth of the South Asian island nation's population of 19.9 million people. The Tamil Tigers have been fighting for a separate homeland since 1983 in a conflict that has killed at least 60,000 people.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/17/2004 12:19:43 AM ||
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Two American diplomats renewed calls yesterday for Syria to pull its troops out of Lebanon, 48 hours after a US Congress delegation made a similar plea, in what analysts said could presage further sanctions by Washington against Damascus. Vincent Battle, the US ambassador to Beirut, told the Lebanese daily An-Nahar that it "was time the Syrian Army withdrew from Lebanon" so that the country "could enjoy total sovereignty". He added that differences between Washington and Beirut were growing over the question of southern Lebanon and the Hezbollah resistance group which holds sway there and is branded a "terrorist organization" by the US government. "We have begun talks with the Lebanese government with a view to deploying the Lebanese Army in southern Lebanon and disarming Hezbollah, but they haven't brought about a result for the time being."
Yeah. That'll happen.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/17/2004 6:07:47 PM ||
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Where is the Arab League? Can't they see how unjust this perpetual occupation of an Arab republic is?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/17/2004 23:05 Comments ||
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"Sure, he may be a bloodthirsty raving Islamofascist terrorist, but he's our bloodthirsty raving Islamofascist terrorist."
Hezbollah's executive has re-elected Sheik Hassan Nasrallah as chief target leader of the militant Shiite Muslim movement, according to a statement Monday by the party that the United States brands as terrorist. Nasrallah begins his fifth consecutive term as secretary-general of the terrorist organization Hezbollah, a post he has held since an Israeli helicopter gunship killed his predecessor, Sheik Abbas Musawi, in south Lebanon in 1992.
I'll bet the guy would be a great mattress spokesman, never sleeps in the same one twice.
The bearded, black-turbaned Nasrallah, 44, has steered Hezbollah toward the mainstream of Lebanese politics.
... which doesn't say much for the Lebanese mainstream.
Under his leadership, Hezbollah has abandoned the extreme anti-Western policies with which it was associated during the civil war years of the 1980s and become a party that champions the poor and holds nine seats in the country's 128-seat parliament.
... and developed an entire new set of extreme anti-Western policies.
He remains, however, a goofy fiery orator who regularly denounces the United States and Israel, whose Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has said Nasrallah is on a list of possible targets for assassination. Hezbollah's statement said Nasrallah was chosen as leader for another three years by a closed meeting of the seven newly elected members of the Shura Council. The party said the members of the policy-making council had also been re-elected, and their portfolios would be announced in the coming days. The council is elected by party officials. Despite his condemnation of the United States, Nasrallah has refused to commit Hezbollah publicly to the conflict between U.S.-led forces and Iraqi insurgents, such as the militia loyal to fellow Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr in the holy city of Najaf. Nasrallah has said his group operates only in Lebanon.
Demonstrating a keen survival instinct if not good sense.
The United States has asked the Lebanese government to freeze Hezbollah's assets and curb its activities, arguing it is a terrorist organization. Lebanon has refused, saying that Hezbollah is a legitimate resistance movement.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/17/2004 12:15:19 AM ||
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#1
How come Jimmah wasn't over there supervising this election? So many whitewashes, so little time.
#2
overthrow of the mullahs would be a nice congratulatory gift to this tool
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/17/2004 9:52 Comments ||
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I can just imagine what it says about him in the madrassa's yearbook:
Sheik Hassan Nasrallah -- Track & Field (hand grenade shot-put) 3,4; Student Council 2,3,4; Seething Club 1,2,3,4; voted "Most Likely to be Blown Out of Existence by a Hellfire Missile."
Posted by: Mike ||
08/17/2004 17:57 Comments ||
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Months of rising crude oil prices have finally produced what economists from New York to Tokyo have feared, justifiable worries of a global economic slump. Last week two key reports triggered widespread concerns that the worldwide economic recovery could die, the Wall Street Journal reported Monday. On Friday the U.S. trade deficit reportedly widened to a record $55.82 billion in June from $46.88 billion in May, and Japan's growth plunged to an annual rate of 1.7 percent in the second quarter, mostly because of a slump in business investment, after topping 6 percent in each of the previous two quarters.
The two reports jarred financial and business leaders. "The risks that the global economy will enter an extended soft patch are rising," economists at J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. wrote in a report to clients. They estimate that world growth probably slowed sharply to a 2.7 percent annual rate in the second quarter after several quarters above 5 percent. "Growth in the rest of the world appears to be slowing," U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow said Friday. "The price of oil is causing an economic headwind."
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
08/17/2004 1:59:29 AM ||
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#1
And this is why the Saudi apologia and silly-assed statement about they wish, they really really do, that oil prices were between $25 and $30 / bbl. Yewbetcha, Babaloo.
#2
Months of rising crude oil prices have finally produced what economists from New York to Tokyo have feared, justifiable worries of a global economic slump.
It's nobody's fault but the traders. They are the ones bidding up the price of oil on THEIR OWN FEARS, and nothing less. They'd probably have handled the situation differently if THEIR jobs were on the line in the event of a global economic slump.
If you are not reading this blog, you should be. Here is his post on CNN's description of what happened during an attack in Mosul, and his own first hand account: Men In Black. Continue reading for his full account, and he is from San Francisco too. The Bay Area is proud of you dude. Stay safe.
This was previously posted on August 6. Still worth a read.
#1
I don't trust this guy and think he's making it all up.
Clues: 1.) He has "Guernica" as his art--bigtime peacenik icon.
2.) He idolizes Hunter S. Thompson--also not a good sign for a soldier.
3.) I've seen no reports of enemy killed in Mosul or of combat action there.
Mosul is in the Kurdish part, which has been quiet and orderly almost from the beginning.
4.) I don't think the military allows this kind of "debriefing" by blog that he engages in.
It's just not done--talking in detail about taking on the Enemy and the bloodiness and bloody-mindedness of it all.
In short, I think the guy's trying to create serious disinformation about what our military's doing over there and let's put it this way, it's not to flatter them as heroes.
From Al Muhajiroun
... The current problems in Darfur are fueled firstly, by the Muslims in the region having become subservient to the enemies of Islam led by the Jews who live in the region. These Jews have met with the militia in Darfur a number of times, supplied them with weapons and even given them training.
Second, is the Eritrean government known for its relationship with Israel and led by a Christian Asyas Aforgi; He is backed by the Jews and the American to play the role of stirring the fitnah.
Third are the Americans. All of these are forces playing a part in igniting the fitnah in the south and west of Sudan to serve the western and Israeli interests. Furthermore, there are also other local forces working for the same western interests, the role of USA is clear like the sun in the middle of the day and hardly needs elaboration.
What is known by necessity in Islam is that the kuffar will be happy and satisfied from the suffering of the Muslims and they do not wish for them any goodness, this is evident in the saying of Allah, "The disbelievers of the people of the book and the mushrikeen do not wish for any goodness to come to you from your lord."
If we know that the people harmed in Darfur are Muslims, we will know for sure about the lie in the tears shed by the kuffar for those 'immigrant' and the oppressed Muslims. .... The matter is not the matter concerning Darfur as they claim; it is a matter regarding Sudan, it is a stage and a part of the global crusade against Islam and Muslims. ....
Since the animosity of the kuffar, the Jews and Christians is not open to debate and whoever denies it is fabricating against Allah; hence it has been decided that the kuffar does not love the Muslims nor wish for them goodness and they wish for them all the hardship, it will become clear for the Muslims the purpose for the intense media coverage and floods of crocodile tears shed for Darfur. ....
Darfur had one of the biggest training camps for Jihad in the time of Sheikh Usama Bin Laden and weapons are available in the hands of the people. ....
Darfur ... was and remained a difficult area upon all the Christians and Jewish missionaries that have been rejected by the Muslims and refused them to enter their countries, Therefore for them, it is necessary for military forces to enter to guarantee and enable those missionary organizations to work to make the Muslims Christians the way it happened in many other areas under the pretext of 'humanitarian aid' .... Bearing in mind the evangelist movement that is considered to be one of the most important political bases for George Bush, for which he is needy for them in order to gain the votes of big portions of the US people, their reason for announcing the killing of the Africans is nothing but a plot to convert the Muslims by using it to turn the Africans whom the Arabs brought to them Islam, by breaking them away from anything to do with the Arabs, including their Islam and their Arabic book the Qur'an. ...
As for the claim that the Arab janjaweed committed crimes against the Muslims in Darfur, we ask, where are you for the crimes committed every 3 second in USA? And for those 35,000 killed annually from gun crime in USA, whereas there is a maximum of 3,000 killed in Darfur? If Bush wishes to capture the votes of the black people, where is he for the 627,000 racist crimes committed in one year 1993? ...
USA tried to make more financial deals with the European community, in particular Britain and France and let them share and divide the goodness of Sudan in order to earn their consent and silence about Iraq, in particular for France who initially rejected the entrance into Iraq, that is why we see the first army to enter Sudan is from France and the second to declare their entrance is Britain, that is the bribe of USA to side with her and not to be an obstacle for her. Bearing in mind the dark history of France with this Ummah and her role in the crusades in the past, Muslims should not forget that history or ignore it, because we know that the kufr of USA and UK and France is the same, the matter between them is disputing over their roles in the light of their own joint interest or reconciled interests or conflicted interests. .... the UK forces are already on their way to Darfur and French forces are already there to collect their bribe. ...
More than that, they wish to attack one of the strongholds of Al Qa'ida in Sudan, where many of the followers of Sheikh Usama Bin Laden are still there. ....
They are drawing their plan to divide Sudan to small states and small provinces as part of the crusaders missionaries in order to re-draw the map of the 'big middle-east' as they call it, which in fact is the Muslim world, it is meant to divide the Muslim countries more and more and make it weaker and to increase its border and racial and nationalistic problems. ...
... our concern is for the humiliated silence of the Sudanese government and her subservience to all their pressure and commands, it is not the first example of her subservience, she was subservient when ordered to exile Abu Abdullah Sheikh Usama Bin Laden, and she was subservient when she was ordered to stop the mujahideen when they fought against the Christian separatists in the south of Sudan, and when she obeyed the order of USA to negotiate with the enemy of Allah .... Verily the Sudanese government failed from the first day that she obeyed the kuffar and permitted them to interfere with her affairs, if she had refused the first time they wished to interfere and if she rose the flag of jihad, all the western countries would have calculated a thousand times before they tried to interfere, but Allah made Sudan face the worse consequences of her sin, verily dignity cannot be achieved by subservience to the kuffar, and it is not part of the political policy to bow to the kuffar, rather the political policy and all the politics in Islam is by obeying Allah exclusively and seeking the dignity for Him and His commands and not for anyone else .... The Sudanese government must reject the interference of the crusaders in her internal affairs, whether it comes from USA or Europe or the UN. The issue of Darfur is an Islamic issue among Muslims, who must look for an Islamic solution for it. ...
The Sudanese armies must enter Darfur and get rid of all agents of the crusaders and prosecute all those agents be they Jews or Christians, and announcing that they have gotten rid of all people who instigated that strife in the region, and to keep forces from the Sudanese army to guarantee security and to distribute the weapons for the people of Darfur and the jihadi movements in order to be prepared for any foreign intervention and moreover, not to permit any international observers to enter into the province of Darfur as they are nothing but spies, they have the American and European agenda. ....
It is a duty upon Muslims in Darfur and all parts of Sudan to start to collect all forms of weapons and to prepare training to be ready for any emergency. They should start now in campaigning and recruiting on an aqeedah level and instilling some facts such as, Al Walaa wal baraa and Jihad, in order to be prepared before the enemy attacks because it is not allowed for us just to await the attack of the enemy, we must prepare for the attack. In addition, the Muslims in the surrounding areas to Sudan, they must be prepared to support their Muslim brothers in case Allah opens the borders of Sudan to be a passage to paradise because paradise is under the shades of swords. .....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/17/2004 11:36:14 PM ||
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#3
The current problems in Darfur are fueled firstly, by the Muslims in the region having become subservient to the enemies of Islam led by the Jews who live in the region. These Jews have met with the militia in Darfur a number of times, supplied them with weapons and even given them training.
It's the old Zionist plot again, chief! [/Maxwell Smart]
Pakistan continues to provide sanctuary to various Sikh militant groups and ISI was also putting pressure on these outfits to revive terrorist activities in Punjab, says the annual report of Union Home Ministry. "There are reports that Pak-ISI continues to put pressure on Pakistan-based pro-Khalistan militants to revive terrorist activities in Punjab," the report for the year 2003-04 said. It said that Pakistan continues to provide sanctuary to leaders of important Pro-Khalistan militant outfits like Babbar Khalsa International (BKI) headed by Wadhawa Singh, Khalistan Commando Force led by PS Panjwar and International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF) led by Lakhbir Singh Rode. Militant groups like Khalistan Zindabad Force led by Ranjit Singh alias "Neeta" and Dal Khalsa International led by Gajinder Singh also continued to receive sanctuary from Pakistani soil, the report said. It said that BKI and ISYF had been banned even by the United Kingdom Anti-terrorism Act 2000 and have also been included in the list of terrorist organisations by the European Union also.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/17/2004 7:51:02 PM ||
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#1
Let's do the math:
ISI implicated in Taleban Afghanistan
ISI implicated in Kashmir
ISI implicated in Punjab
ISI implicated in Indian state house terror attack
How about the ISI getting it's clock cleaned? Soon enough Musharraf is going to be offed by ISI pro-terror elements. Isn't it time he did a little house cleaning before he takes the dirt nap? What use is an intelligence organ that routinely tips your hand to the enemy and helps them plot your own downfall?
"Nope. Nope. Never happened."
DARGAI: Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) Ameer Qazi Hussain Ahmed on Tuesday denied that his party had any links with Al Qaeda and other militant organisations. "We do not believe in violence," Qazi told a public meeting in Sakhkot Bazar.
"'Course, it all depends on yer definition of violence!"
He criticised the government for charging JI leaders with links to Al Qaeda and other extremist groups. Qazi accused the government of taking directions from the United States. "The US is the biggest of all terrorists and is responsible for killing tens of thousands of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan", NNI quoted him as saying.
"Yeah! An' they wudn't doin' nothin'!"
The JI chief denied differences within the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA), saying all religious parties of the alliance were united.
"Some are just more united than others..."
Earlier talking to journalists in Dargai, Qazi resolved that the JI would not be intimidated by government accusations. He said the US and Pakistani governments had vested interests in keeping Al Qaeda 'alive.' He said JI activists loved peace and criticised the government for not allowing them to attend the jirgas in Bajaur, Khyber and Mohmand agencies. He said that the MMA was working to unite Shias and Sunnis.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/17/2004 7:35:33 PM ||
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QUETTA: Chief of the Jamhoori Watan Party and tribal leader Nawab Akbar Bugti has said that military cantonments cannot bring development to any area and the people of Balochistan will not allow the establishment of military cantonments in the province at any cost. "Yar! We don't want no furriners sniffin' around our wimmin!"
Nawab Bugti accused the rulers of trying to usurp oil and gas, the national resources of Balochistan. "We have been treated as if we were immature for a long time," he said. "The rulers say that they know what is best for us, but we say it is better to mismanage things ourselves than to allow somebody else mismanage us and they mismanage everything." Ummm... He does have a point there...
Another nationalist leader Sardar Akhtar Mengal said that military rulers had always mistreated the "Baloch nation" in Pakistan. He said that former military ruler Ayub Khan and then ZA Bhutto had initiated military operations in Balochistan and now the present rulers were doing the same. Meanwhile, central general secretary of the Jamhoori Watan Party, Agha Shahid Bugti, claimed that two days ago Frontier Corps personnel had defaced the portrait of Nawab Akbar Bugti in Sui. He said that this had instigated the people against the FC. He said that people had snatched a vehicle from the Frontier Corps. Shahid Bugti said that the matter was resolved but later in the morning some people attacked the convoy and four personnel were killed.
See? I'm psychic. Toldja it was Bugtis...
Posted by: Fred ||
08/17/2004 7:22:38 PM ||
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#1
Whoa! Looking like nature boy jackson!
I'd whoop 'em with me cat 'o 19 tales....
#4
Enough said. Bring on Singapore justice, public caning.
Posted by: Capt America ||
08/17/2004 20:19 Comments ||
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#5
A decorated U.S. combat veteran filed a lawsuit on Tuesday asserting that the government can not prevent reservists from leaving the military when their enlistment periods end.
I military member gives up his right to sue when he signs his contract. I wonder what "decorations" he is sporting.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/17/2004 23:02 Comments ||
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...... The other funny thing was his appearance on TV a few days ago with his hand bandaged. Come on Muqty! I'm sure you can do better than this. I recall that we used to do this trick when we were young teenagers to attract girls' attention "Look I got injured while I was kicking some a**es" but I can't figure out why is Muqtada using it now. Perhaps we should consider convincing him to see a neurologist (when he's in jail of course); maybe this will help us understand better the etiology of his sickness and what the hell is going on in his CNS, plus we can try some new drugs on him instead of the poor guinea pigs.
FRAMINGHAM -- Not a day goes by that something from the Muslim world does not make the headlines, but many in the United States, including school teachers, have sparse knowledge of the culture and history of Islam. Forty teachers from around the state are spending the week at Cameron Middle School to build their knowledge about Islam so they can return to class this fall to teach the subject that is now required under the state's history curriculum frameworks.
Are they required to teach other religions as well?
The teacher workshop, called "The Genesis and Genius of Islam," covers a variety of topics, from the founding of Islam, to the expansion and achievements, to how the religion changed. The weeklong course is hosted by Primary Source, a Watertown-based group that runs teacher workshops on history and humanities. ... Primary Source began offering courses about Islam for teachers three years ago. The classes have become popular due to current events and because Islam must be covered under the Massachusetts curriculum frameworks for history. The workshop has been paid for by grants from the Massachusetts Foundation for the Humanities and the Virginia-based Mosaic Foundation, Cunningham said, as well as money paid by school districts that belong to Primary Source. Mosaic Foundation is an organization founded by wives of Arab ambassadors to the United States. According to its Web site, member countries include Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Syria.
Ah, yes. Anyone want to wager on who funds the biggest share?
The money was well spent, said David Tebaldi, executive director of Massachusetts Foundation for Dhimmitude the Humanities. "It's just an incredibly important topic at all times, but especially at this time," Tebaldi said. "The more we know about the Islamic world the better, as far as I'm concerned."
Read Rantburg.
The Massachusetts Foundation for the Humanities will continue its Islamic education sponsoring a series of book discussions open to the public, which are led by scholars who study Islam.
Only ones promoting it, I'm sure.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/17/2004 1:15:48 PM ||
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#1
...because Islam must be covered under the Massachusetts curriculum frameworks for history.
I wonder if American history fits in somewhere in the curriculum framework and when they'll be running the workshops on it? Somehow, I doubt it.
Islam is a caustic blend of regurgitated paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its lone prophet, conceived his religion solely to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist. And if you think these conclusions are shocking, wait until you see the evidence.
The critics of this work will claim that Prophet of Doom is offensive, racist, hatemongering, intolerant, and unnecessarily violent. I agreeâbut I didnât write those parts. They came directly from Islamâs scriptures. If you donât like what Muhammad and Allah said, donât blame me. Iâm just the messenger.
Others will say that I cherry-picked the worst of Islam to render an unfair verdict. They will charge that I took the Islamic scriptures out of context to smear Muhammad and Allah. But none of that is true. Over the course of these pages, I quote from almost every surah in the Qurâanâmany are presented in their entirety. But more than that, I put each verse in the context of Muhammadâs life, quoting vociferously from the Sunnah as recorded by Bukhari, Muslim, Ishaq, and TabariâIslamâs earliest and more trusted sources. I even arrange all of this material chronologically, from creation to terror.
Somehow I dont think this view is being taught at this 'workshop'.....
#4
this is going to backfire on them. The bottom line is that they will stir interest in Islam. And they will open the door to teaching Christianity.
By all means, let's educate them. What does it matter if the chidren dress up in hijabs,play dodgeball with little stones, and draw a colorful prayer rug. In the battle of ideas, Islam can't compete.
It's kinda like when they tried to put women into men's baseball. They ended up disproving the very theory they hoped to prove.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 14:08 Comments ||
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#5
B the problem is.... they simply won't teach Christianity -- PERIOD. Not even the historical siginificants of it.
The ACLU would be all over them -- it'll be a shark feeding frenzy!
That is except for the 'And then the Murdering Crusaders invaded the peaceloving muslim lands and raped all the men, women, children, furry-bunny-rabbits, and baby ducks!'.... kind of crap as dictated by the ACLU and NEA (Teachers union).....
That is how my teachers covered the Crusades during the '70s. I'm sure it got worse since then....
#6
Heloooooooo Frank, Bulldog, R2D2, C3PO , Jamon, David and the gang...Welcome to an evening of entertainment and only in the esteemed paper of Great Britain...The Rantburg. Please...only use the Queen's English in your discourse. I missed you all but I have to say that I don't have much time these days. As you know, giving "one liners" is not my style but I'm afraid my replies will have to be shorter this time. The teacher workshop on Islam is a great idea because there is so much misinformation about our religion, Islam. Such workshops will help us see that we are all brothers and sisters in humanity.
#8
Such workshops will help us see that we are all brothers and sisters in humanity.
Excellent idea. I'm sure the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia won't mind me jetting over and teaching the Catholic faith to my fellow brothers and sisters in humanity.
#10
And I'd like to take this time to thank those fine public servants of mine in the Massachusetts Legislature for helping to waste even more of my tax dollars as a misguided sop to political correctness.
#11
Read anything by Bernard Lewis or Daniel Pipes. Robert Spencer too, for that matter.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
08/17/2004 14:27 Comments ||
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#12
Hi! Please keep calm. "Dreadnot" that is not a good idea. I mean, can I teach Islam in the Vatican? That would not be appropriate. Certain places are exclusive, like clubs. You need to become a member to gain entry. Think of it that way. And please...keep it cool.
#13
Crazy Fool...each time the ACLU allows the teaching of Islam, they set a precedent for allowing educational units for other religions. Each time the Muslims get on our TV's and school boards and demands that they can teach Islam the ban on teaching Christianity weakens in the public's mind. We should thank the Islamics for opening this door for us.
And I have to agree with Salahuddin. We should teach these things. To do so is to break down the barriers. There is nothing wrong with allowing children to study Islam. Just like there is nothing wrong with allowing them to learn about their Christian Heritage.
The best way to combat Islam is to educate our children. The best way to get them interested in the topic is to have them draw some pretty pictures and want to find out more about the Arabian Knights. It's not a battle that Islam can win.
Please, if they want to open this door...let them!
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 14:30 Comments ||
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#14
Final word on this belongs to Ann Coulter:
We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity
#15
"The Genesis and Genius of Islam"?? Give me a break. I guess the 7th century is everything its cracked up to be.
To waste tax $ on this is truly disgraceful.
I learned on 9/11 that Islam wants me to convert or die and to destroy the American way of life. Somehow I doubt thats how the "class" will be taught.
The left really does want to give this country away.
#17
Well...I have to disagree with all of you. The more I have learned about Islam, the more I have become impressed with Christianity.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 14:38 Comments ||
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#18
So, you are likening the entire country of Saudi Arabia to the Vatican?
Okay, then, how about Morocco then? Last time I was there I didn't see any cathedrals. I would like to teach Catholicism in the Maghreb. My brothers and sisters in humanity need me.
#21
badanov ...you got that right. The best thing you can do is expose it to them when they are little and then let them make their own choices.
Truth is the best disinfectant.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 14:43 Comments ||
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#22
B: There is right way and wrong way....mandates from the legislature that require a greater burden on the tax payer with no provision for consent is the WRONG way.
A lifetime ago my 9th grade Humanities class included a unit on religion covering the five major religions. We each then got to choose one and follow its tenets for a 24 hr period. No mandates, no propoganda.....a much more level approach. I agree, if we're gonna teach then we should teach. Cal and Mass are engaging in indoctrination.
Salahuddin: is "keep it cool" the Queen's English?
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/17/2004 14:51 Comments ||
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#23
Just a thought... what if a Christian extremist group somehow interpreted the Bible as telling them to wage a 'Jihad' type of war on America and started blowing people up. Would we then start teaching Christianity in schools as a peaceful, respectable religion?
#25
I agree with "B", my brother in humanity. We must have a discussion. Let's sit together, Muslims and Christians and do it. Believe me you will be surprised how much misinformation there is about Islam.
Posted by: The Management at the Rantburg ||
08/17/2004 14:56 Comments ||
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#26
I agree with "B", my brother in humanity. We must have a discussion. Let's sit together, Muslims and Christians and do it. Believe me you will be surprised how much misinformation there is about Islam.
I agree with your assertion that knowledge is the best course, but, many of us, if I may be presumptuous enough to speak for others, are dubious as to the prospects of a course funded by Arab governments giving a thorough airing of not only the tenets of Islam, but the consequences of those tenets (i.e., how does sharia affect a country's goverenance versus separation of church and state; how does the ban on charging interest affect a modern capitalist state).
If kids walk away from these courses thinking that Islam is just like Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, except Mohammed is their prophet versus Jesus, Moses or Buddha, then your thesis has been gutted.
A serious comparative religions class would be far more helpful, IMO.
#28
good point Rex. But I still think that we'd be wise to let the Islamists open the door to teaching about the world's religions in the schools.
Look, I'm not naive that they are dishing out propaganda. But no matter how much make up and perfume you spray on a corpse, it's still looks dead.
When your opponent can help you by helping himself, by all means, let him.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 15:01 Comments ||
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#29
yeah, Maryland, Great Britain....but we have off-shore servers in Malta and Diego Garcia
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/17/2004 15:05 Comments ||
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#30
Dreadnought, I agree with your point 100%. But I still think the best they can hope to do is put some blush on the corpse.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 15:10 Comments ||
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#31
The problem with teaching this crap in school is this: in order to get a passing grade in a class, you have to show that you have mastered the subject matter. You cannot teach religion in this manner without assuming some things to be true. Now if I take this class and decide that Islam is twenty pounds of pigsh*t in a ten-pound bag, and everything the teacher has said was a complete lie, I either have to parrot a bunch of crap in order to pass or tell the truth and fail the class.
Hmmm... say the words or pay a penalty. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
#32
True B. Explains why I was a virulent anti-communist by the 6th grade. My problem is I don't trust the Govt on this one. I think this is where the parents have to step up.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/17/2004 15:14 Comments ||
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#33
A corpse. Simply the best word for a worldview that crushes everything and everyone it embraces.
Tell you what, B. Toss a critical reasoning course on to the front end of our Exploration into Islam class, and you've got something.
#34
Believe me you will be surprised how much misinformation there is about Islam.
I don't think any of us would be surprised. I mean, we hear the misinformation all the time: "Islam means peace", "Islam is a peaceful religion", blah, blah, blah.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/17/2004 15:27 Comments ||
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#35
let me give some personal background here. Way back before 9/11, I volunteered in elementary schools in a multi-ethnic environment.
At the elementary level, it really doesn't matter if they get the sugar-coated version. We did all kinds of multi-ethnic things and it was really cool. Day of the Dead parties, Thanksgiving, Rhamadan, Christmas (yes...we did!) Kwanza.... Cowboys and Indians... it was all good fun. I learned as much as they did..it was cool! Doing that allows us to take the things we like from other cultures and morph them as our own. We used to call it "the melting pot"..but that's frowned on these days.
Face it, if you were a little kid...you'd really dig it if they allowed you to make a jeweled sword and wrap a towel around your head. It's just about that deep.
No matter how they slice or dice it, Islam is 7th Century. It can't cut it in the Western world. That's why they are trying to wipe us off the planet. Education will only reinforce that knowledge, it won't change it.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 15:29 Comments ||
Top||
#36
Sal, as to our "discussion", we brothers in humanity? Can Liberalhawk come too? He'll bring the Matzoh...
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/17/2004 15:30 Comments ||
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#37
Great idea. Maybe the Mass. school system can raise the kids to be suicide bombers. That will resolve the problem of having terrorists sneak in the country. Whoever came up with this must be brilliant.
#38
Believe me you will be surprised how much misinformation there is about Islam.
Yes, most of it put out there by Muslims.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
08/17/2004 15:34 Comments ||
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#39
Fact is there are some people that get great comfort in being told what to do and having minimal freedom. Look at the old folks in Russia who pine for the Soviet Union. There is a sense of security in having someone else do everything. Islam provides that in bucketloads. Koran even tells them the proper way to wipe their buttocks.
The Koran inverts everything and plays this obvious weakness (among others) as as strength. The Koran fills a need and thus will always have some appeal to those that fear taking responsibliity for their own actions.
#41
Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit on Islam and blogs:
I'VE BEEN MEANING TO POST SOMETHING on this item by Bjorn Staerk about the growth of anti-Islam comments on a lot of blogs.
As I was posting shortly after September 11, there are lots of different flavors of Islam. It's actually playing into the hands of the Ladenites to assume that Wahhabi extremism represents the authentic face of Islam. Islam has many traditions, and Wahhabism is actually a fairly recent one, and it is rather more extreme than it is authentic.
That said, it would be useful if those more moderate Muslims would take a more aggressive role. Some are -- see, for example, the Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism -- but we could use more of that, no doubt. But to the extent that these people encounter comments urging that Islam be "banned," they're likely to feel less, rather than more, motivated toward reasonableness.
How deep is the commitment of "moderate" Islamic theorists if they are more put off by inane blog comments than by nutballs like Bin Laden hijacking not only airlines but their religion?
Also, this notion that Wahhabism is not authentic Islam reminds me of some of the useless debates during the Cold War as to whether the Soviet Union was authentically "communist." All I knew was that I wasn't going to wait around for the Mensheviks or Trotskyites to make a comeback, so they were communist enough for my tastes. Ditto for the Wahhabis. By all means, encourage the Islamic world to reform itself, but that doesn't mean we take a break from analyzing, critiquing, debating and defending.
#44
so, dot com, is even glen reynolds a nuanced wimpy liberal?
I dont think hes saying that Bin Laden and comments in blogs and elsewhere are equal - he saying that Bin laden motivates the change, but blog comments dont help. there are also other factors that would motivate someone to not step forward, such as fear, peer pressure, etc.
And Reynolds is NOT saying Wahabism isnt a form of Islam. "more extreme than it is authentic" doesnt say its not at all authentic - it says its less authentic than it is extreme. And its not THE authentic face - its no more authentic than other forms, and arguably a lot less authentic.
I guess im being nuanced again. Of course its in defense of the writing of the premier conservative blogger on the net, so i guess its not just my liberalism in play.
#45
I think it's a bit hypocritical to take any negative comment regarding Islam and turn it into a blanket condemnation of all Islamics.
So...I guess I'll just make a little disclaimer that I will put at the bottom of every post.
Disclaimer:
Any negative comments I make towards muslims are generally meant for extremeists only, ie: those who have embraced the idea that I am an infidel worthy of death. I may also make negative comments of Muslims who blame all of their own problems on Jews or Westerners. This is not all Muslims, and any Muslim's who do not feel this way may feel excepted from my negative comments. Additionally, I sometimes make negative comments regarding Muslims who fail to speak up against Muslims who do wish to exterminate me. Muslims who do speak up, may feel exempted from my comments. And finally, I would like to exempt any Muslims who believe in equal rights for women, homosexuals, Jews and and "honor killings" may also be exempt.
When I make negative comments re: Muslim's I am not referring to those who do not embrace any of the above views. I am aware that there are many of them, and I wish them great success and happiness in our welcoming country.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 16:13 Comments ||
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#46
LH: The problem with Reynolds argument is that if they're less inclined or not inclined at all to be reasonble, then who cares? Makes for a target rich environment from my perspective. The onus is entiirely theirs. In the meantime we've got work to do and so do they. I suggest they get busy.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/17/2004 16:14 Comments ||
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#47
b - he was linking to an article which talked about people commenting positively about a far right Norwegian party that wants to ban Islam. Most of the comments cited were from LGF, but by no means all.
#48
LH -- so I guess nasty comments about racists make it less likely for borderline racists to change their minds?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/17/2004 16:17 Comments ||
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#49
I'll agree that the idea of banning Islam is absurd. But I don't think this shush, shushing when someone mentions the deranged, infidel-killing elephant in the room is productive.
If Christians were actively supporting the KKK at a state level, then we'd deserve the same types of comments.
I feel bad for peace-loving Muslims who are caught in the middle of this. But they need to speak up, just as whites needed to speak up against slavery or black racism. To fail to do so makes one complicit in the overall crime.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 16:24 Comments ||
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#50
oops..isn't productive
soo...I'm a crappy proof-reader. So fire me.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 16:26 Comments ||
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#51
RC - well if you think that all muslims are racists, and moderate muslims are borderline racists. I know how we would rip that kind of thinking apart if it was coming from the left.
#52
B - millions of christians supported things far worse than the KKK. I daresay that if any Jews in 1944 had called for the banning of Christianity, wed have been told that this discouraged the statements of some Christians, and would have been distinctly unhelpful. And that would have been correct.
#54
LH..I think that was my point. Most Christians did not support the evil of the KKK, but failed or feared to act. So I guess you are agreeing with me???
thanks jules.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 16:39 Comments ||
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#55
snicker...I find it interesting LH, that you are so quick to say "millions of Christians did worse things" as you sit on your high white horse looking down upon Americans who complain of "millions of Muslims who wish to exterminate us". Shall we go back in Jewish history too?
Most people are good. But the failure or fear to speak out against those who are bad is also worthy of condemnation.
thanks for making my point.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 16:47 Comments ||
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#56
And millions of German Christians did not support the very pagan Nazi regime, but a visit by the Gestapo seemed to be an effective deterrent against "moderate" views.
Most Germans would probably argue that the Nazis did not represent "authentic" Germany. And a few forlorn Jews in Warsaw shaking their fists in frustration at Christian persecution would be unlikely to drive those opposed to Nazism into Hitler's arms. It took the combined willpower and blood of the Allied armies to end that particular brand of evil.
#57
It took the combined willpower and blood of the Allied armies to end that particular brand of evil.
Amen! That reminds me of a rant I've been wanting to get off my chest re: the fact that the left has become the Puritan right.
Sigh..I guess we all grow up and become our parents...
If the Puritan right can be faulted for their inability to acknowledge human nature in regards to sex, then why can't we fault the New Puritan Left for their inability to acknowledge human nature in regards to war.
The left spends endless hours mocking the right for their belief that we need only promote abstinence and...poof!...prostitution, teen sex, illegitimacy, and AIDS will all disappear. Yet the left seems unable to realize that simply being "for peace" will stop the horrors of war.
Don't get me started!
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 17:02 Comments ||
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#58
As a Mass. resident and parent, I'm wondering how long before the Wicca/Pagan ADL gets their religions on the mandatory list. My kids already spend more time learning about the Salem witch trials than they do about the Continental Congress.
#62
Only religions founded in major oil producing nations should be considered for pedagogical dissemination in the great state of Massachussetts or elsewhere...
______________________________BorgRealist
#63
Only religions founded in major oil producing nations should be considered for pedagogical dissemination in the great state of Massachussetts or elsewhere...
Finally! Zoroastrianism gets the respect it deserves!
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/17/2004 21:50 Comments ||
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#64
OK, this opens the door for lots of stuff - when cna I demand they teach Catholicism, since it had a far greater influnce, especially in Boston or any other city with lots of Italian and/or Irish immigrants.
Riddle me this: Why is this considered part of AMERICAN Culture?
And what is so "Genius" about Islam, given that societies to adopt it have remained frozen in midaeval time in terms of human rights and militiant theocrats?
#65
It is Islam's creed that makes it unique, "OldSpook". Our creed is, very briefly, that God is unique, there is nothing like Him. He is One of a Kind. You cannot imagine Him or make a picture of Him. He does not have a son or a father or a mother. He does not sleep. He does not rest. He does not need anything. He is totally Self-Sufficient. He is above the heavens, above His throne which He created. He is the First and the Last. Ofcourse He is the Creator, Who Creates from nothing. He is Merciful and Loving. He is Merciful even to those who don't believe in Him and hate Him. He is the Subtle and the Gentle. He forgives again and again. He is also the Just and He gets angry when His laws are broken but ofcourse His Anger is not like human anger. He will reward those who follow Him with heaven and punish those who disobey Him with hell, but if you ask Him to forgive you before you die, He will forgive you. He will forgive even those who had disobeyed Him, if only they would ask for His forgiveness. All His attributes are perfect. He has a Face, two Hands, two Eyes and two Feet but, ofcourse, they are not at all like ours. You cannot picture them or imagine them and you must never do that because His attributes are unique and there is nothing in creation like them. He is above the seven heavens, above His footstool and above HIs throne...He is above all His creation and He never comes down to earth. The entire universe in His Hand is like a mustard seed in your hand! This is just a fraction of the information about God (Allah in our language) from our creed. Do you now see why Islam wins more hearts than any other religion?
#67
Hi! Now you all can witness the mercy of God. "Bulldog" calls God a "figment of my imagination," an "inherited delusion". He says God's unique attributes will bore readers. Don't you see "Bulldog" that God allowed you to write the above? Don't you see how Merciful He is to you? He could have easily stamped you out of existence for what you said about Him. Then you would have been worth less than a squashed dung beetle. But He lets you live. He gives you another chance to repent. And he will keep giving you chance after chance until your time period on earth has expired. Then it will be too late to repent. You will be dragged into hell and fry in there forever. Your skin will be the thickness of mountains so you can keep on suffering excruciating pain. You fool! Wake up! Don't take a chance. You can't afford it...fool!
Posted by: Howard UK ||
08/19/2004 8:37 Comments ||
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#69
Allan's will, huh, Sal? Does he will Islam to lose every friggin' battle with the Infidel evil Joooos? Guess so
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/19/2004 8:48 Comments ||
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#70
Hi! "Frank", you are right. God wills us to loose every battle with the Jews because we our disobeying Him. God is Just. Once we get our act together, obey the Islam laws and submit to God...watch the fireworks! "Howard", my wife got very, very angry when she found out I was chating with you all on the internet. It cost us a lot of money. So I am writing from somewhere else. That is why I can't write a lot. But you all know how I love to give long and thorough replies. Take care.
#71
Don't take crap like that from a woman - shouldn't she be cleaning behind the fridge rather than observing your internet habits? BEAT her!
Posted by: Howard UK ||
08/19/2004 9:05 Comments ||
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#72
I used to be hooked on drugs now I am hooked on Allan, hmmm M`OK.
Posted by: Trolling for Allan ||
08/19/2004 9:06 Comments ||
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#73
Hi! I will definately NOT beat my wife, "Howard". In fact, we share the duties in our home and I was the one who actually cleaned underneath and behind the fridge last time! Look at the way you are talking about women-shame on you. And weren't you the one who said Islam treats women badly? A woman is not the property of a man as you believe in your culture. My wife kept her last (family) name and did not change it to mine as they do in pagan custom (Roman, where a woman was considered the property of a man-you have inherited that custom, Howard). (No personal offense to any pagan or Astra person). Islam does not persecute any peoples-but it disagrees with customs which are not monotheistic. But Islam believes in freedom of all religions. Let everyone talk about their religion and then let the people choose which is the true religion. Let the people decide. That is the American way! And that's what Islam wants. And as our Holy book the Quran says, "Let there be no compulsion in religion." There should be absolutely NO pressure on you.
#74
Quit lying, "Salahuddin". What happens when someone decides they're no longer a Muslim, hmmm? Why do so many former Muslims leave their homelands and change their names?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/19/2004 10:34 Comments ||
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#75
Go tell it to the Saudis - (work on your irony detection as well!)
Posted by: Howard UK ||
08/19/2004 10:36 Comments ||
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#76
Hi! "Howard", as a Muslim I try my best to avoid irony or sarcasm. I try to write in a straight forward manner. That is why I don't have much practice detecting ironic and sarcastic people! "Robert", becoming Muslim is not like becoming a Christian or a Jew. To become a Muslim you must testify that there is no God worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad is His messenger. You must think very carefully before you make this statement as it entails huge responsibilities. It is a verbal contract between you and God. Once you realize the tremendous responsibilities it entails (example-that you must pray five times a day for the rest of your life), then you say it. We don't advise anyone to say the testimony until he fully understands what
it entails. "There is no compulsion in religion"...Quran. But once one says it, there is no going back. The punishment is death. Islam is no joke and neither are heaven or hell...eternal pleasure or eternal torture. And "Why do so many Muslims leave their homeland and change their names?" I didn't. I lived in America for 25 years and migrated to a Muslim country and I didn't change my name. Unfortunately, we have the best car but some of the worst drivers.
#77
Who's the "fool", Salahuddin? Do you think if you'd been born Hindu you'd be banging on about Allah now? No, you'd be banging on about Holy Cows. Your dear religion is simply a superstition you were born into. You're the fool because you bought the scam without any evidence whatsoever and consequently your life will be a wasted series of devotions to a non-existent divinity.
Try to prove to us your Allah exists. Gentle tried but gave up pretty quick. Maybe she's having doubts about the Big Con now. If you had an ouce of critical thinking ability in your head, you would too.
#78
PS I know a whole bunch of younger generation Westernised 'Muslims' who don't buy the con either. They're biding time while their parents are alive before skipping the mosque altogether and enjoying a more rewarding life with real "tremendous responsibilities" that don't involve being a slave to a book, and the guys who shout the loudest on Fridays.
#79
Hi! "Bulldog"...You know very well Who you will think of when you are in a life and death situation. You know very well Who you will think of when your airplane encounters heavy turbulence. Fools like you have to get shaken up to acknowledge God. Intelligent people don't need a calamity. They believe in Him from all the evidences around Him. Stop being a stubborn fool and listen to your heart. In Islam the word for disbeliever is "Kaafir," or "one who covers (what is in his/her heart." Don't take this personally, just be honest with yourself.
#80
You're the fool, Salahuddin. You bought the con. You fell for the 'Islam is the truth' lie a long time ago and even at your mature age have never thought to question the wisdom of it. Why can't you bring yourself to answer any of my questions and address my challenges? You lack the answers. Just admit it, and stop being evasive.
Who you will think of when your airplane encounters heavy turbulence.
Last time that happened I didn't think of any god. Keep your superstitions and new age "listen to your heart" nonsense to yourself, OK? I'm not interested.
Address my points, or don't bother posting again. Thanks.
BTW, thanks for th ZoneAlarm link you posted a couple of days ago, .com. It's installed on my machine and seems to be doing sterling service. I had no idea I was being probed so frequently just sat innocently using the computer.
#84
Heloooooooo Frank, Bulldog, R2D2, C3PO , Jamon, David and the gang...Welcome to an evening of entertainment and only in the esteemed paper of Great Britain...The Rantburg. Please...only use the Queen's English in your discourse. I missed you all but I have to say that I don't have much time these days. As you know, giving "one liners" is not my style but I'm afraid my replies will have to be shorter this time. The teacher workshop on Islam is a great idea because there is so much misinformation about our religion, Islam. Such workshops will help us see that we are all brothers and sisters in humanity.
#85
It is Islam's creed that makes it unique, "OldSpook". Our creed is, very briefly, that God is unique, there is nothing like Him. He is One of a Kind. You cannot imagine Him or make a picture of Him. He does not have a son or a father or a mother. He does not sleep. He does not rest. He does not need anything. He is totally Self-Sufficient. He is above the heavens, above His throne which He created. He is the First and the Last. Ofcourse He is the Creator, Who Creates from nothing. He is Merciful and Loving. He is Merciful even to those who don't believe in Him and hate Him. He is the Subtle and the Gentle. He forgives again and again. He is also the Just and He gets angry when His laws are broken but ofcourse His Anger is not like human anger. He will reward those who follow Him with heaven and punish those who disobey Him with hell, but if you ask Him to forgive you before you die, He will forgive you. He will forgive even those who had disobeyed Him, if only they would ask for His forgiveness. All His attributes are perfect. He has a Face, two Hands, two Eyes and two Feet but, ofcourse, they are not at all like ours. You cannot picture them or imagine them and you must never do that because His attributes are unique and there is nothing in creation like them. He is above the seven heavens, above His footstool and above HIs throne...He is above all His creation and He never comes down to earth. The entire universe in His Hand is like a mustard seed in your hand! This is just a fraction of the information about God (Allah in our language) from our creed. Do you now see why Islam wins more hearts than any other religion?
#86
Hi! Now you all can witness the mercy of God. "Bulldog" calls God a "figment of my imagination," an "inherited delusion". He says God's unique attributes will bore readers. Don't you see "Bulldog" that God allowed you to write the above? Don't you see how Merciful He is to you? He could have easily stamped you out of existence for what you said about Him. Then you would have been worth less than a squashed dung beetle. But He lets you live. He gives you another chance to repent. And he will keep giving you chance after chance until your time period on earth has expired. Then it will be too late to repent. You will be dragged into hell and fry in there forever. Your skin will be the thickness of mountains so you can keep on suffering excruciating pain. You fool! Wake up! Don't take a chance. You can't afford it...fool!
#87
Hi! "Frank", you are right. God wills us to loose every battle with the Jews because we our disobeying Him. God is Just. Once we get our act together, obey the Islam laws and submit to God...watch the fireworks! "Howard", my wife got very, very angry when she found out I was chating with you all on the internet. It cost us a lot of money. So I am writing from somewhere else. That is why I can't write a lot. But you all know how I love to give long and thorough replies. Take care.
#88
Hi! I will definately NOT beat my wife, "Howard". In fact, we share the duties in our home and I was the one who actually cleaned underneath and behind the fridge last time! Look at the way you are talking about women-shame on you. And weren't you the one who said Islam treats women badly? A woman is not the property of a man as you believe in your culture. My wife kept her last (family) name and did not change it to mine as they do in pagan custom (Roman, where a woman was considered the property of a man-you have inherited that custom, Howard). (No personal offense to any pagan or Astra person). Islam does not persecute any peoples-but it disagrees with customs which are not monotheistic. But Islam believes in freedom of all religions. Let everyone talk about their religion and then let the people choose which is the true religion. Let the people decide. That is the American way! And that's what Islam wants. And as our Holy book the Quran says, "Let there be no compulsion in religion." There should be absolutely NO pressure on you.
#89
Hi! "Howard", as a Muslim I try my best to avoid irony or sarcasm. I try to write in a straight forward manner. That is why I don't have much practice detecting ironic and sarcastic people! "Robert", becoming Muslim is not like becoming a Christian or a Jew. To become a Muslim you must testify that there is no God worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad is His messenger. You must think very carefully before you make this statement as it entails huge responsibilities. It is a verbal contract between you and God. Once you realize the tremendous responsibilities it entails (example-that you must pray five times a day for the rest of your life), then you say it. We don't advise anyone to say the testimony until he fully understands what
it entails. "There is no compulsion in religion"...Quran. But once one says it, there is no going back. The punishment is death. Islam is no joke and neither are heaven or hell...eternal pleasure or eternal torture. And "Why do so many Muslims leave their homeland and change their names?" I didn't. I lived in America for 25 years and migrated to a Muslim country and I didn't change my name. Unfortunately, we have the best car but some of the worst drivers.
#90
Hi! "Bulldog"...You know very well Who you will think of when you are in a life and death situation. You know very well Who you will think of when your airplane encounters heavy turbulence. Fools like you have to get shaken up to acknowledge God. Intelligent people don't need a calamity. They believe in Him from all the evidences around Him. Stop being a stubborn fool and listen to your heart. In Islam the word for disbeliever is "Kaafir," or "one who covers (what is in his/her heart." Don't take this personally, just be honest with yourself.
#91
Hi! Please keep calm. "Dreadnot" that is not a good idea. I mean, can I teach Islam in the Vatican? That would not be appropriate. Certain places are exclusive, like clubs. You need to become a member to gain entry. Think of it that way. And please...keep it cool.
Sadr Asks Vatican to Help Settle Najaf Standoff
-- Shiite Muslim cleric Moqtada al-Sadr invited Pope John Paul II to try to mediate an end to the standoff in the Iraqi holy city of Najaf, Agence France-Presse reported, citing an aide to the cleric. ``We welcome the offer from the Pope at the Vatican and we invite him to solve the crisis,'' AFP cited Sheikh Ahmed al- Shaibani, as saying. Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican secretary of state, said yesterday the Pope would mediate if asked, AFP reported.
"Yes, by Allan! You're the ultimate hostage!"
But first you must convert, my son and I'll handle your confrimation, personnally.... mostly because I'd love to slap the shit out of you.
Al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia this month began a second uprising against the U.S.-led coalition in southern Iraqi cities, after a monthlong rebellion that started in April. Iraq's national conference, which is meeting in Baghdad, is sending a delegation to Najaf to call on al-Sadr to withdraw his fighters from their positions around the Imam Ali shrine, the holiest Shiite Muslim site, AFP reported.
nahhhh. Look, the Pope's position on the war was completely consistent with his position on all wars and conflicts and its consistent with his position on the value of human life. The guy opposed the war on spiritual reasons and because that is just what a Pope should do. He should be the one who stands in opposition to the messes we get ourselves into.
Remember that as bad as Saddam was, he got a lot of help from many nations, including our own. At some point we had a choice to make about him that might have saved us a lot of lives and trouble. Someone has to be out there reminding us that no war is just one sides fault and that we are all guilty to some extent when we find ourselves involved in one. The Pope is not a secular leader, he is a moral one with an altogether different way of operating in the world.
#7
Peggy-I agree with this part of your statement:
...the Pope's position on the war was completely consistent with his position on all wars and conflicts and its consistent with his position on the value of human life. The guy opposed the war on spiritual reasons and because that is just what a Pope should do...
The problem is, if the Pope accepts this offer, he has exited the "spiritual reasons" realm and has inserted himself in the political realm. That can have deadly repercussions which I am positive he does not intend or realize.
Respectfully, where I disagree with you is the idea that "we are all guilty to some extent". That just isn't my philosophical or religious worldview.
#8
Someone has to be out there reminding us that no war is just one sides fault and that we are all guilty to some extent when we find ourselves involved in one.
Historically, a statement so utterly untrue that I could dedicate an entire doctoral thesis to it. When the Mongols swept through Europe, they fought, defeated and slaughtered populations that 5 years prior they never had any contact with whatsoever. One would be hard-pressed to find the provocation that Denmark committed to earn the enmity of Germany in 1940; they just happened to be in the way.
Spiritually, it smacks of "blame the victim", but I'm willing to bet that you didn't intend that.
#10
One would be hard-pressed to find the provocation that Denmark committed to earn the enmity of Germany in 1940; they just happened to be in the way.
Bingo, Dreadnought. This "we are all guily to some extent" bullsh!t is precisely how Americans have been persuaded to believe that we in someway deserved the 9-11 atrocity. That sort of pansy-@ss thinking needs to be flushed down history's toilet, pronto.
#12
Maybe Mookie will ask the Pope to arrange for the Sadrites to be transferred to the Church of the Nativity where they could desecrate a Christian holy site. That wouldn't bother the Muslim world at all.
Posted by: Tibor ||
08/17/2004 16:29 Comments ||
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#13
Someone has to be out there reminding us that no war is just one sides fault and that we are all guilty to some extent when we find ourselves involved in one
Actually, it is just one sided. If the Iraqi insurgents would lay down their arms, we could send our army home. If Sadar came out with his hands up, we wouldn't shoot him.
We learned what happens when you have a war and nobody comes...you get Darfur with massive rape and genocide. Your wishing that not to be true doesn't make it any easier for those watching their 14 year old daughters get raped and hacked to death.
Posted by: B ||
08/17/2004 16:31 Comments ||
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#14
We went to war with Saddam. We were attacked on 9/11 there is a difference.
War is something conducted by both sides with the consent of both sides. Attacking and slaughtering a peaceful civilian population as in your specific examples is not war. Its a criminal act.
That said, those who fight back against an enemy who has invaded out of nowhere and without provocation have may have good cause but they can't avoid guilt in the Christian sense. No Christian should be against protecting and saving the defenseless who are in danger of immediate harm but it is a core teaching that we all contribute in some way to perpetuating the sad state of the world. In this way there is no escaping the guilt no matter what we do. Christians have always generally accepted that given the fact that since guilt cannot be avoided, one might as well err on the side of justice and fight in defense of the helpless. The fact that there is guilt does not generally cause us to avoid doing what we gotta do, it just means that we don't believe that we get off the hook by fighting or dying in a just war any more than we believe that we get of the hook for fighting in an unjust one. Contrast this to what the Muslims believe that one can cleansed of all sin by fighting or dying in a just war.
This is what I mean by there is always guilt on both sides between any two groups who fight each other. I dont believe in blaming the victim anymore that anyone else here, but I don't believe that its possible for any adult with the power of choice to be entirely innocent. This doesn't mean that anyone deserves to be butchered. Its just a fact.
While the Pope can do little to change our overall guilt, it is his job to nonetheless hold us to a higher standard. The constant challenge that the modern day church represents to us is absolutely neccessary to the maintenance of our civilization in that it makes us properly reluctant to go to war. This is one of the reasons why we are different from the muslime who seem to find it way too easy to find "good" justifications/excuses to go to war with the rest of the world. The church was fundamental in forming our moral conscience in the West and it still functions rightfully as a voice of conscience against war in our modern society.
I for one am glad that the Pope was against the war even though I supported it. I am glad for his voice of dissent in the matter.
#17
While the Pope can do little to change our overall guilt, it is his job to nonetheless hold us to a higher standard.
How sad it is that the Pope's own minions didn't feel too compelled to uphold "a higher standard" while they were buggering little boys and girls. The Catholic church has a lot to answer for before they can run around condemning others.
#18
The people in the Vatican should see this for exactly what it its: a political ploy.
As for the Pope - it was a Papal opinion to oppose the war, not a disciplinary matter (which is not binding but requires serious resons to overcome), nor part of the doctrine or dogma (fundamental items of the Faith).
As such it was not binding on Catholics, unlike the Church's stand on Abortion and Euthanasia (both Doctrine).
As for "Just War", its not that the war was neccesarily unjust, its that it was unclear if it met all the standards for a Just War.
1) The damage inflicted by the agressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave and certain.
2) All other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective.
3) There must be serious prospects of success.
4) The use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgement of those who have responsibility for the common good.
(straight from the Catechism).
Point 1 - its fairly obvious that if you consider the "nation" to be the people of Iraq and the region there - its obvious that the damage Saddam did met the criteria, and based upon the *best* intelligence we had (and the Pope had no access to this, which explains why he may have been mistaken), there was certain grave danger for the community of nations in the region, and given the results of our failure to preemptively act before 9/11, there were dire conseqeunces. After the fact, this may be where the "failure" might be, because someone takes a differing view on the graveness or the immediate danger from Iraq to the US.
Point 2 - 10+ years and a ton of UN resolutions and all kinds of failed inspections, that pretty much spells "impractical and ineffective"
Point 3 - obvious.
Point 4 - This is the debatable part, in that we failed to sufficiently provide for post-war security. But prior to the war, this was an "obvious" point in that the depredations of the Husseins was quite obvious a great evil, and their repressions produced almsot genocidal actions against minorities like the marsh arabs.
As for "proper authority" - that rested fairly with Bush, not with the Pope, given the disparity in ability to gather intelligence in the region.
I believe the Pope was ill-served by the Vatican staff, and the Bush Whitehouse staff did not do a good job of taking the case for a Just War to the Vatican.
And Zenster, the number of pedophiles in the Catholic Church is smaller than the public in general according to one of the latest studies I saw - its just that the Church hid it away and amplified the crimes by doing so, acting according to worldly concerns instead of for the betterment of the Church's mission. This is one place I do fault the Pope's judgement: he should have demanded the immediate "retirement" of that Boston Archbishop/Cardinal and prosecution of any wrongdoers. Render unto Caesar...
But also, let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
#19
Old Spook, I agree with your point by point analysis.
Because I do not stand in a pulpit, I take a dim view of those who abuse such a position. Regardless of how the rate of abuse within the church compares to external society, the fact remains that those carrying the church's flag knowingly paraded under false colors.
This is an affront to their own faithful and people in general. The Catholic church's lethargic and often flat-out concealment was heinous. The huge numbers of cases where known pedophiles were transfered to another unsuspecting parish is simply criminal.
While it might be argued that insurance is paying out the settlements in these cases, where did the money to buy that insurance come from? I'd wager from the collection plates. Money given in good faith to do good works was therefore invested against a most serious form of wrongdoing by the church's own servants.
Better that the College of Cardinals and the Vatican itself have their enormous budgets shorn of the settlement costs than to have congregations faced with bankrupt Archdioces. Does anyone think that the Catholic top brass will face any curtailment of their perks despite signing off on the program of concealing these offenses?
The faithful have taken it in the shorts yet one more time, as they too often have all through the Church's history. Such tremendous wealth and power as the Church possesses has been defiled and desecrated by its own ministers and there should (literally) be Hell to pay.
No the Pope isn't perfect and neither is he perfectly consistent on moral issues, but he is in a position of moral authority. I think our point in defending him is not based on his being perfect in all ways morally, its based on his being consistent with the value that he places on the human life ie that we shouldn't destroy it physically. He properly utilized his office and issued a correct opinion in keeping with his church's teachings.
Unfortunately, we can't ignore someone's moral opinion because they aren't perfectly moral. If we did so then no one, absolutely no one, would have any grounds to protest anything on moral or ethical grounds. No one could challenge another person to rise to a higher standard. Where would we be if this was the case?
"let him who is without sin cast the first stone" Amen.
Israel declared psychological war on hunger-striking Palestinian prisoners today, saying it would barbecue meat outside their cells to try to break their spirit. "Sammy! Who is bringing the chicken? I have a dozen tri-tips here!"
The 1,700 inmates, seen by Palestinians as symbols of resistance to Israeli occupation, want wardens to stop strip searches, allow more frequent family visits, improve sanitary conditions and install public telephones, supporters said. Stop strip searches? I remember Dustin Hoffman's character in "Papillon".
In Gaza, about 3,000 Palestinians held a rally in support of the hunger strikers. Khaled al-Batsh, a senior leader of the militant Islamic Jihad group, said gunmen should kidnap "Zionist soldiers and settlers to be swapped for our prisoners." You attend this rally or you will be the object of an honor killing. . . -Hamas Please read full story!
Posted by: BigEd ||
08/17/2004 11:00:13 AM ||
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#1
Uh oh. Look for AI and HRW to scream, "Torture! TORTURE!!!"
#4
Butterflied leg of lamb, marinated in balsamic vinegar and rosemary, whole pig on a rotissery, washed down with copious amounts of a favored cuvee, Anyone notice an increase in the amount of carniverous threads lately? Gonna be tough on mucky.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/17/2004 11:16 Comments ||
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Y'all are making me hungry, but I doubt they will be cooking pork. Just a hunch.
#6
Of course, the Jews don't eat pork, either, but properly aimed smoke from Lamb kabobs will really bring on the calls of torture
from Amnesty International.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/17/2004 12:00 Comments ||
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#11
You are all sick and twisted
And as the Palestinians demonstrate even more of their seemingly ingrained stupidity, we get even MORE cruel and heartless. Ever hear of the phrase, "cause and effect"?
#14
You guys are too meat centered. How about the deep fried aromas of nice felafel, fragrant with cumin? Hummus, with fresh (72?) virgin olive oil and paprika, with yeasty warm pita bread?
Fits everybodys religious preferences, and no animals need to be killed :)
#17
puleeze--you think the smell of lamb kerbab will permeate and overcome the fetid smells of the paleo/arabanimals that inhabit the prison-better to offer them live goat tushie as a reward for imbibing hummis
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
08/17/2004 13:24 Comments ||
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#18
You guys are too meat centered. How about the deep fried aromas of nice felafel, fragrant with cumin? Hummus, with fresh (72?) virgin olive oil and paprika, with yeasty warm pita bread?
Liberalhawk, you forgot the garlicky tahini relish made with chopped seeded cucumber, diced red onion and tomato chunks. Some of that topping along with a bit of shredded cabbage and lettuce stuffed inside the warm pita bread plus those falafels and you are goin' downtown! I'm rather fond of Lamajoon, myself.
#19
ANTIWAR - no you are sick and twisted..people here are just having some...but you would perfer to give these asshats their demands..with the hope they could someday be killing children...your posts in the past in support of terrorists is truly twisted and sick...
Posted by: Dan ||
08/17/2004 14:18 Comments ||
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#20
As I sit here with my Quizno's Meatball sandwich with mushroom & bell peppers, listening to Hannity. . .
My meat-centered soul is satisfied.
and, .com. . .no offense taken. Contruibution to Fred's forum is a good idea anyway. I sent him $20, and I suggest all others show support.
#21
Zen - i dont like too much tahini (sesami paste) sauce, but i do like the diced cucumbers, tomatoes and onions, which Ive always known as "salat", the modern Hebrew for salad. Shredded cabbage is fine too.
#25
How about the deep fried aromas of nice felafel, fragrant with cumin? Hummus, with fresh (72?) virgin olive oil and paprika, with yeasty warm pita bread?
Guess I've got my menu for Sunday lunch. No tahini for me, tho.
You are all sick and twisted Nah, this is just gallows humour, and a mild form at that.
Iran and Saudi Arabia called Monday for the United Nations to intervene in Iraq to stop the fighting between U.S. forces and Shhite militants hiding in the holy city of Najaf. Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi made the request in a telephone conversation with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, the official Islamic Republic News Agency reported Monday. "Americans once again made a grave blunder in calculating developments in Iraq and provoked the sentiments of the Iraqi people through resorting to the use of force," IRNA quoted Kharrazi as telling Annan. The Saudi Cabinet issued a statement expressing "deep pain and sorrow" over the situation in parts of Iraq and calling for "a greater role for the United Nations in efforts to stop the bloodshed," the official Saudi Press Agency reported.
Radical Iraqi Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his followers have fought U.S. and Iraqi forces from within the compound of the Imam Ali mosque in Najaf, in central Iraq, for over a week. U.S. forces on Sunday launched a new offensive against the militants in the mosque, the burial place of the Prophet Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, who is revered by Shiites. Predominantly Shiite Iran is keenly interested in the security of the holy sites. It also has links to Iraq's Shiite majority, and Iraqi officials have accused Tehran of meddling in the country's politics — a charge Iran denies.
Meanwhile, Iranian government spokesman Abdollah Ramezanzadeh said Tehran holds the interim Iraqi government responsible for the safety of an Iranian diplomat kidnapped in Baghdad. A militant group holding Iranian diplomat Faridoun Jihani has said it would release him if Iran frees 500 Iraqi prisoners it is holding but Tehran has rejected the conditions, saying there were no Iraqi prisoners in Iran. "We hold the Iraqi interim government responsible for the safety of the diplomat," Ramezanzadeh told reporters Monday. According to the Arab television station Al-Jazeera, the kidnappers — who say they belong to a group calling itself the Islamic Army of Iraq — has threatened to "punish" the diplomat but hasn't specified how. Jihani, the Iranian consul to the Iraqi city of Karbala, was kidnapped while traveling from Baghdad to Karbala, 50 miles south of the capital last week. Scores of other foreigners have been kidnapped as leverage to force foreign troops and businesses from the country.
There has been tension between Iraq and Iran in recent weeks. Last month, Iraqi Defense Minister Hazem Shaalan said Iran was Iraq's "first enemy" because it was playing a role in the insurgency. Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi later distanced his government from the remark. Ramezanzadeh said such hostile comments resembled the language used by the toppled Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/17/2004 9:00:21 AM ||
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#1
Hmmmm Tater's masters try to pull him from the fire?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/17/2004 9:45 Comments ||
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#2
Iran, Soddies Calls for U.N. Intervention in Iraq
So does this mean that the UN is now authorized to set up a sex trade operation somewhere in Iraq? Or maybe an oil-for-terror operation perhaps?
A militant group holding Iranian diplomat Faridoun Jihani has said it would release him if Iran frees 500 Iraqi prisoners it is holding but Tehran has rejected the conditions, saying there were no Iraqi prisoners in Iran.
They also say their nuclear program is for "peaceful purposes". Truth or bullshit? You be the judge.
Iraq's interim president promised on Monday to prevent Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq from launching attacking into Turkey, apparently hoping to avoid a Turkish military response. Kurdish rebels fighting for autonomy have stepped up attacks in Turkey, officials said, including bombings last week at two small hotels and at a liquefied petroleum gas plant in Istanbul that killed two people and wounded 11 others. There are some 5,000 Turkish Kurdish rebels holed up in the mountains of Iraq, where many among Iraq's Kurds sympathize with their cause. Turkey repeatedly has urged U.S. and Iraqi authorities to crack down on the rebels, and on Monday, Iraq's interim President Ghazi al-Yaweri assured Turkey's president that Baghdad would take action. "We cannot tolerate or allow any group or formation that is posing a threat to the security of our neighbors," al-Yawer said at a joint news conference with Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer.
In the past, Turkey's military — which has some 1,500 troops and tanks in Iraq to monitor rebel movements — has made incursions into northern Iraq to wipe out rebel bases and has left open the possibility of a future incursion. In an apparent attempt to avert a possible cross-border military campaign by Ankara, the Iraqi leader added that "good neighborly relations mean not mingling into the internal affairs of the other." Al-Yawer was in Turkey for two days, mainly to discuss security and trade, a visit that came amid a surge of kidnappings of foreigners, including Turkish truck drivers taken hostage this week, in Iraq. But Turkey has pressed the issue of the Kurdish rebels, who have demanded autonomy for Turkey's 12 million Kurds during a decades-long war that has claimed some 37,000 lives since 1984. "I told Mr. al-Yawer that we're expecting a new Iraq not to shelter terrorist organizations," Sezer said, referring to the rebels.
After declaring a unilateral truce in 1999, the rebels broke it off on June 1, saying the Turkish government was continuing to crack down on them despite the truce. Turkey has refused to negotiate with the rebels and never recognized the truce. Sezer also expressed concern over Iraqi Kurds' growing influence in northern Iraq, which also is home to thousands of ethnic Turks. Turkey fears that Iraq's Kurds could take over the oil-rich region around Kirkuk, which would strengthen their bid for an independent state — and encourage Kurdish separatists in Turkey to seek the same.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/17/2004 8:52:08 AM ||
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"...Monday, Pronk met Vice President Ali Osman Mohamed Taha, who emphasized "the sincere desire of the Sudanese government to normalize the situation in Darfur"...â
Yet here on earth...
â.'..some [refugees] had crossed back to Darfur and then have come back again because they have basically lost hope in the peace process,' Cue said..."
"Sudan resumed aid delivery to a camp for 90,000 refugees in the stricken Darfur Region U.N. officials said Monday, three days after soldiers reportedly closed the camp following a mob killing of an alleged pro-government militiaman...."
..."The top U.N. envoy to Sudan, Jan Pronk, told government officials that he was concerned about the fact that 'the Janjaweed militia was still active and continued to be a threat,' a spokeswoman for the U.N. Mission in Sudan said."
Everyone comfy in their conference seats to discuss the implications?
WAKE UP. What are you watching? Why are we watching?...
"...Monday, Pronk met Vice President Ali Osman Mohamed Taha, who emphasized "the sincere desire of the Sudanese government to normalize the situation in Darfur"...â
Yet here on earth...
â.'..some [refugees] had crossed back to Darfur and then have come back again because they have basically lost hope in the peace process,' Cue said..."
"Sudan resumed aid delivery to a camp for 90,000 refugees in the stricken Darfur Region U.N. officials said Monday, three days after soldiers reportedly closed the camp following a mob killing of an alleged pro-government militiaman...."
..."The top U.N. envoy to Sudan, Jan Pronk, told government officials that he was concerned about the fact that 'the Janjaweed militia was still active and continued to be a threat,' a spokeswoman for the U.N. Mission in Sudan said."
Everyone comfy in their conference seats to discuss the implications?
WAKE UP. What are you watching? Why are we watching?...
Unidentified gunmen opened fire on supporters of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto's party ahead of a key by-election, killing three people, police said Tuesday. The shooting happened Monday in Fateh Jang, a town about 35 miles southwest of Islamabad, where Pakistan's prime minister-designate Shaukat Aziz is contesting a by-election on Wednesday. Fateh Jang was also the scene of a failed assassination attempt on Aziz last month. Aziz escaped unharmed, but nine people were killed when a bomber blew himself up. Police said the gunmen had pulled up their car next to supporters of Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party, who were distributing campaign pamphlets, and began firing. At least three people died. No additional people were wounded.
Civil, well-aimed -reasoned discourse...
Police didn't know who was behind the violence, said Mohammed Yasin, a local police official. Nobody claimed responsibility for the attack, but Raza Rabbani, a senior leader of the Pakistan People's Party, blamed Aziz's supporters. "We have no doubt that the supporters of Aziz have killed our people," he said. Meanwhile, police have stepped up security in the town to prevent more violence.
It wouldn't have made any sense to do it after the assassination attempt on Aziz, would it?
Aziz, a loyal ally of the President Gen. Pervez Musharraf, was nominated by the country's ruling party for the premiership in June after Zafarullah Khan Jamali resigned from the post. However, Aziz, who is currently Pakistan's finance minister and a Senator, must first win a seat in the National Assembly or lower house of parliament before becoming prime minister. Aziz is also contesting by-elections in southern Sindh province, where two lawmakers of the ruling Pakistan Muslim League-Q party stepped down to help ensure Aziz wins a seat in the National Assembly. The previous ruling party lawmaker in Fateh Jang also resigned to pave the way for Aziz. Under Pakistani law, candidates can contest more than one National Assembly seat at a time.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/17/2004 8:47:54 AM ||
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The U.S. Army has been testing a robot armed with a pump-action shotgun for counter-insurgency missions. The unit has already seen action in Iraq. In combat, the PackBot can be equipped with a pump-action shotgun system capable of recycling and remote firing. A soldier controls the robot through a joystick and receives streaming video from a front-mounted camera transmitting to a personal digital assistant, or PDA. The PackBot also comes equipped with a nuclear, biological and chemical sensor package capable of detecting a wide range of NBC contaminants. An infrared camera lens enables the robot to operate in low-light conditions as well. The PackBot has been tested by the 29th Infantry Regiment at Fort Benning, Ga. as part of the unit's new experimental force platoon. The PackBot weighs about 40 pounds and is propelled by heavy-duty tracks. It has rotating, tracked arms that assist in propulsion and negotiation of obstacles.
The robot was introduced in Iraq in late June, officials said. The Army has also deployed advanced robot control systems with the 25th Infantry Division in Afghanistan. [On Aug. 8, the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq announced that Iraqi security forces received "massive shipments" of weapons and material over the past week. The shipments for the Iraqi military and National Guard were said to have included more than 2,500 vehicles, 600 radios, 55,000 weapons and 25,000 pieces of body armor.]
Officials said one use of the PackBot has been to transport up to 30 pounds of munitions or medical supplies to personnel trapped under fire. The robot reportedly costs $42,000. The PackBot has been operated through an advanced robot control system, officials said. The system allows for the remote control of different types of unmanned robotics elements and expands the communication capabilities from firing teams to higher echelons. PackBot is manufactured by iRobot Corp. in Burlington, Mass.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
08/17/2004 2:10:58 AM ||
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#2
PackBot sounds too much like PacMan...I vote for KillBot.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/17/2004 12:54 Comments ||
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#3
Gee I wonder if a fleet of several hundred of these bashing down the front doors to the holy Najaf mosque and dragging tater out by his beard would be considered desecration?
#7
I happened to see a video of one of these babies in action as part of a presentation on autonomous robots at a computer graphics conference last year. In the video, two Marines run up to an open window, one of them carrying the Packbot which looked liked a medium suitcase with treads. He tosses it thru the window with a two-handed fling worthy of the Olympic Suitcase Toss.
Inside the room, little Packbot crashes off the far wall, bounces across the floor a couple of times and sits motionless. At this point, the entire audience, including the three Marines I was sitting next to, is howling with laughter. After a couple seconds, as if it were regaining conciousness, little Packbot flips itself over. It fires up a video camera and heads down a dark stairway. Quite cool. And apparently rather sturdy.
By Laila M El-Haddad in Gaza Monday 16 August 2004, 22:08 Makka Time, 19:08 GMT
Thousands of Palestinians have marched in Gaza in a show of solidarity with political prisoners being held in Israeli jails and detention centres. Palestinians from across the Gaza Strip and its political spectrum, including hundreds of women, religious figures, MPs, and civil society activists, participated in Monday's protest. Many held up framed pictures of their loved ones and large banners proclaiming "Yes to hunger, no to submission". Too bad these morons don't realize that they've been saying "yes" to both hunger and submission for many years now. Arafat has stolen the food from their mouths for decades. Additionally, the violent terrorist factions have long forced the Palestinian people into submission over many issues as well. Remember how al Aqsa terrorists shot 15 year-old Hassan al-Zanin because his family didn't want a rocket launched from their home's yard?
Some 1500 Palestinian political prisoners in four different Israeli detention centres began a hunger strike yesterday in protest of their poor conditions. "We are here to express our solidarity with our brothers and sisters who are suffering under miserable conditions in Israeli cells. We are here asking for their freedom," said one marcher. The march ended in front of the Legislative Council, where a series of solidarity tents have been set up. Similar tents have been erected near Red Croissant Cross offices throughout the West Bank.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Zenster ||
08/17/2004 12:31:54 AM ||
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#1
Islam: the religion of pestilence.
Posted by: Annie War ||
08/17/2004 1:50 Comments ||
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Here's a fun game that the Israelis can play, and there's lots of different variations on it: first, take a several dozen prisoners, isolated in groups of a dozen each, inside. Keep them inside and separated for several hours. Then take one group into a room filled with a half-eaten banquet of prison food, and ask them if they want to eat the other half.
One of the tricks is to take *every* group to see the half eaten meal and get the offer. Maybe one group sees the full meal and one group has just a few scraps left. You might set a strict time limit: "all the food you can eat in 30 seconds".
The assumption is that all will turn down the food. If not, no problem. It was what they were going to be fed anyway, so it doesn't cost anything extra.
#4
One other thing: why the HELL doesn't Israel have the death penalty? Seriously, are they afraid of international condemnation? Don't they think that multiple murderers deserve it? But I've never even heard of any pro-death penalty lobby organization in their entire country, though I'm sure many individuals would be in favor of it.
DEBKAfile Exclusive Sources report: Radical Shiite leader Moqtada Sadr circulates bitter letter accusing ayatollahs and seminar heads of Najef and Iranian center of learning at Qom of failing the ultimate test, betrayal and leaving him and his fighters to die with their last drop of blood in the Najef shrine. Hence his appeal to Falluja Sunnis for help in teaching the "heretics" a lesson they will never forget.
Young Sadr just never had the political smarts his daddy had.
Posted by: Atropanthe ||
08/17/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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#1
Some background on Sadr (I did some open source digging):
The Sadr family used to be the Grand Ayatollah of the Najaf shrine. His father got a lot of say in where the money from that Shrine goes - and he steered a lot of it to the poor in what is now called "Sadr City".
Oh, you didnt know that EVERY pilgrim that goes to the shrine pays a tithe, a tax, for admission? You didnt know it was a large amount of money and that the Ayatollah Sadrand his family benefitted from it quite nicely - materially and in terms of prestige - you didnt know that?
As Limbaugh likes to say, Follow the Money.
So the Sadrs were rolling in the cash, hard currency from Pilgrims. That is until Saddam offed the elder Sadr for causing too much troiuble in the ghettos of Baghdad. And all of a sudden they needed a new leader, and the younger Sadr was not ready for the position, so Sistani got the position (and the cash).
After Sistani took over, the money flowed the other way (to the Southern areas instead of the Baghdad), and poor little Tater was off the gravy train. Thats why Tater had his rival cleric killed - the guy was much more popular and was in line to take Sistani's place. Sadr had him killed bacause he wanted to move up in line for the money from the Shrine.
And thats what he's doing now. Trying to position himself for the money.
#4
And thats what he's doing now. Trying to position himself for the money.
I guess he's about to learn that "you can't take it with you".
Maybe the Iranians don't like the idea that they are losing these funds and that the Iraqi's will be receiving them in the future without giving them a portion of the proceeds.
I hope Sadr doesn't blow the Mosque - but if he do - the fact that he did it willingly will mute the outrage that would have occurred if Iraqi's hadn't made of show of offering him surrender.
#6
well oldspook is right. Follow the money. Old-Sadr had a big pile from his salvation and soul recycling business.
The pimply faced bad toothed Mookster has bit off more than he can chew. The blood of Ali has been a cult right up there with wahabism.
lets nuke the taters! One potato (najaf) 2 potato - ?
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
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Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
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