The RAF is giving "exceptional" support to ground forces in Afghanistan, the head of the British Army has said after a highly critical e-mail was leaked.
General Sir Richard Dannatt reacted to a leaked e-mail from a major with the main UK battle group, which described the RAF as "utterly, utterly useless".
Major James Loden of 3 Para, based in Helmand, said more help was needed.
Gen Dannatt, the chief of the general staff, called the comments "irresponsible" and "regrettable".
He said in a statement: "The Harriers and the support helicopters have played, and continue to play, a vital role in ensuring the battle group's success," he said.
"Irresponsible comments, based on a snapshot, are regrettable," he added.
In the leaked e-mail, confirmed as genuine by the Ministry of Defence, Maj Loden said there had been "plenty of tears" following casualties in the intense fighting with the Taleban.
He is based in the north of the southern province of Helmand.
His e-mail also gave an example of the RAF's failure to provide air support.
"... Harrier pilot 'couldn't identify the target', fired two phosphorous rockets that just missed our own compound so that we thought they were incoming RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades], and then strafed our perimeter, missing the enemy by 200 metres," it said.
Gen Dannatt countered that he had visited Afghanistan since the incident described, saying: "Following my recent visit... the men of the battle group left me in no doubt as to the value of the RAF's support to their operations."
Earlier on Friday, an MoD spokesman said the "tears" Maj Loden referred to were "not tears of exhaustion or frustration".
"This is a reflection of the fact these men are under daily attack and sadly there are often daily casualties."
The spokesman added that the "moving" and "humbling" e-mail "reflects both how intense the fighting can occasionally be, and the enormous courage, dedication and skill of the British troops" in Helmand.
Some were "working to the limits of endurance, but their morale is high and they are winning the fight", he added.
Maj Loden's comments about the RAF "do not reflect the view of the vast majority of soldiers", the spokesman said.
It had "performed brilliantly in defending coalition forces", he added.
BBC defence correspondent Paul Wood said Maj Loden's comments reflected what officers were saying privately, but their tone and emphasis were at odds with the MoD's official statements.
Other Parachute Regiment officers had told him they prefer to call in American A-10 Tankbusters for air support when under fire because of what they see as the RAF's ineffectiveness, he added.
Liberal Democrat defence spokesman Nick Harvey called on the government to "provide an urgent statement" in response to Maj Loden's "disturbing comments".
His e-mail showed "the need for a reassessment of the full range of capabilities required to accomplish the Nato mission" in Afghanistan, Mr Harvey added.
"As our troops face increasing violence, we need to see a clear and achievable strategy and an honest assessment of the challenges ahead."
#1
"they prefer to call in American A-10 Tankbusters"
Something strange, in your neighbourhood
Who you going to call?
Muhammadbusters!
Something Weird and it don't look good
Who you going to call
Muhammadbusters!
I ain't afraid of no Muhammad.
I ain't afraid of no Muhammad.
You seeing things running through your head
Who you going to call?
Muhammadbusters!
An invisible man running through your head
Who you going to call?
Muhammadbusters!
I ain't afraid of no Muhammad.
I ain't afraid of no Muhammad.
Who you going to call
Muhammadbusters!
If your all alone,
Pick up the phone and call
Muhammadbusters!
I ain't afraid of no Muhammad.
I hear it likes the girls.
I ain't afraid of no Muhammad.
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
Who you going to call?
Muhammadbusters!
You have Muhammad, freaky Muhammads.
You'd better call,
Muhammadbusters!
Let me tell you,
Bustin' makes feel good
I ain't afraid of no Muhammad.
I ain't afraid of no Muhammad
Don't get caught alone, oh no
Muhammadbusters!
When it comes through your door,
Unless you just want some more,
I'd think you'd better call,
Muhammadbusters!
Who you going to call?
Muhammadbusters!
Posted by: Joe of the Jungle ||
09/22/2006 21:35 Comments ||
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#2
Joe of the Jungle, You need some time away from work.
Posted by: 49 Pan ||
09/22/2006 21:59 Comments ||
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#3
Heh, Joe. :->
"provide an urgent statement"
And say what? That the people there on the scene are wrong? There's no reason a Harrier can't pinpoint who's who and deliver fire on the bad guys. If a Warthog can do it, then the Harrier certainly can. The problem must be with the pilots - the hardware's already capable.
And armed forces are for fighting guys, you know, that violence stuff. The politicians should be asking the troops what's what, not running around trying to put band-aids on issues by refuting those who know and making pointless statements. If some RAF pilots are shirking, then rotate the bad ones out and discharge them. There are plenty of good guys who will step forward.
#4
49 Pan (It is rumored that he once navigated two Asian countries in the same night), Thought about that, but as you know this is the best war I fought yet!!!
Posted by: Joe of the Jungle ||
09/22/2006 22:25 Comments ||
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#5
Ya, nothing like two countries in a nite, life rock.
as far as Harrier pilots go they are just as good as the rest. Just because one pilot made a mistake under fire does not mean they are all bad. This is just politics and now some pilots are going to be smeared in the name of partisanship.
Posted by: 49 Pan ||
09/22/2006 22:31 Comments ||
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#6
Quit your F**king sniveling Major Loden, and get your head back in the fight!!! You always have to consider close air support as a convenience, and if you dont mark/call your targets effectively (Harrier pilot 'couldn't identify the target')sh*t happens..
Posted by: Joe of the Jungle ||
09/22/2006 23:00 Comments ||
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(RIA Novosti) - Five Russian Interior Ministry servicemen were killed in the Chechen capital Thursday as the car in which they were riding came under fire, a source in the republic's law-enforcement authorities said. One of the servicemen died while an ambulance was taking him to hospital. "There is every reason to believe this was an ambush, and that the criminals made their escape in a car," Chechen prosecutor Valery Kuznetsov said. Criminal proceedings have been launched and an investigation is underway.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
"There is every reason to believe this was an ambush, and that the criminals made their escape in a car,"...
Quick work by CSI:Chechnya. I was thinking Muslim wedding and pogo sticks...
OSLO (Reuters) - Norwegian prosecutors unveiled on Friday evidence against four men detained on suspicion of plotting to blow up the U.S. and Israeli embassies and of participating in a shooting at the Oslo synagogue last weekend.
Prosecutor Unni Fries told a court the Norwegian secret services had bugged the car of the main suspect and recorded conversations between the men planning the attacks.
"They spoke in detail about how to attack the synagogue and the U.S. and Israeli embassies," Fries said, asking the court to detain all four suspects for four weeks without visitors or other contact with the outside world.
Early on Sunday morning at least 10 shots fired from an automatic weapon hit Oslo's only synagogue. No one was hurt in the shooting, the most serious in a string of attacks in recent months on the Nordic country's small Jewish community.
Police have identified the detainees only as men between the ages of 20 and 30. Defense lawyers, who said their clients were innocent, said one suspect was of Turkish origin, two had Pakistani backgrounds and one was a native Norwegian.
Fries said the main suspect had "expressed extreme Islamist views" and was briefly detained during this summer's World Cup by German police, who found drawings of rockets in his car.
During a trip to Britain in June he was reported to have told his girlfriend over the telephone that he "felt that he had to act", Fries said. She did not say whether prosecutors were linking the suspects with any extremist organization.
The U.S. embassy said in a statement that it was watching developments closely and would cooperate fully with Norwegian authorities.
"We are deeply concerned about the emerging information on these planned terrorist attacks," ambassador Ben Whitney said. "This situation reflects the importance of having the necessary legal tools to prevent terrorism."
The four men could face jail terms of up to 12 years if convicted of conspiring to carry out acts of terror.
#3
Im still waiting on this headline US Declares War on Islam
Posted by: Joe of the Jungle ||
09/22/2006 21:13 Comments ||
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#4
Surprised. That's sort of a dirty pink with silver sparkles isn't it Zenster? I may have to buy the 120 pack of crayolas because I just. don't. see it in my 64 pack.
Posted by: Scott R ||
09/22/2006 21:39 Comments ||
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SRINAGAR: Indian forces on Thursday killed at least five suspected Islamist militants, four of them in a gunbattle close to the Line of Control (LoC), a police officer said. Police launched a joint operation with the army after receiving a tip-off that four armed men were around Lachipora village, said area police chief Viplav Kumar. A gunbattle ensued and government forces later found the bodies of four suspected insurgents, Kumar told The Associated Press.
Meanwhile on the same day, the army and police killed another suspected militant in Chitragam village, said police officer Imtiaz Hussain. There was no independent confirmation of the incident. Also on Thursday, suspected militants detonated a small landmine as a police patrol walked through Qaimoh village, said Hemant Lohia, a top police official, adding that one police officer had been wounded in the attack. He said that a policeman and a civilian, meanwhile, had been wounded when militants lobbed a hand grenade on Wednesday evening at a police post in the town of Anantnag. At around the same time, Lohia said, militants had shot and critically wounded an activist for the state's ruling pro-India People's Democratic Party in the town of Bijbehara. After initial treatment at a local hospital, the activist was taken to Srinagar for specialised medical care.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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Ten people were killed and five injured on Thursday when gunmen opened fire on a passenger van at Toddo Mara, some 40 kilometres from Islamabad. The attackers drove up in a car with Islamabad registration plates and stopped the van on its way to Haripur from Kangra Colony, pulled its driver Mubasher out and shot him dead. Then, the attackers opened fire at the van passengers indiscriminately, killing five people Abdul Basit, Raja Irfan, Qaiser, Khurshid and Fayyaz at the scene. Muhammad Saleem and Nazakat died of bullet wounds on the way to hospital.
Two others were killed, but police have not yet identified them. The attackers fled the scene. The five injured passengers were rushed to Ayub Medical Complex, where doctors declared four to be in critical condition. Locals said that two of the victims, Muhamamd Fayyaz and Khurshid, were pursuing a court case and were going to court to attend a hearing, and the killing might be related to that. However, the Kot Najeebullaha police station house officer rejected the speculation and termed the incident an act of terrorism.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
It appears the van survived
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/22/2006 2:49 Comments ||
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#2
Terrorism? Local cops must not have received the official PC guidebook.
Posted by: john ||
09/22/2006 7:11 Comments ||
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MIRANSHAH: Suspected militants shot dead an Afghan man in North Waziristan for allegedly spying for US forces in Afghanistan. "Wazir Khan was killed because he was a US spy," stated a letter near the bullet-riddled body, which was found near a checkpoint two kilometres north of Miranshah. The letter, written in Pushto, said the alleged spy was a resident of Khost province in Afghanistan.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Doesn't mean he was an american agent, it just means somebody thought he was.
SARGODHA: Two unidentified gunmen on Thursday morning shot dead a Shia leader in Sargodha's Muslim Bazaar, police said. Two men on motorbikes approached Bashir Hussain and fired at him in what witnesses described as a drive-by shooting. Husain was rushed immediately to DHQ Hospital, where he later died of his injuries. As news of his death rapidly spread through the city, a group of locals came on to the roadside to raise protest slogans. They also blocked approaching roads with burning tyres. Police personnel have been deployed at imambargahs.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Whatever is a "imambargah"?
Posted by: Bobby ||
09/22/2006 6:42 Comments ||
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#2
An imambargah is a prayer/meeting hall for Shiites. It is known by other names in other areas. Elsewhere in India, it is sometimes called a Hussainia; however that name is more in-your-face to Sunnis because it honors the 3rd Shia Iman.
TIMES NOW has acquired a CD recovered from arrested LeT militants, which confirms for the first time that Maulana Masood Azhar, the leader of the Jaish-e-Mohammad who is based out of Pakistan, has embarked on a war against India. In the CD, Maulana Masood Azhar who was freed by the government in exchange for hostages during the IC 814 hijacking, is exhorting young men to rise up in arms and join the 'jihad' against India.
The CD contains provocative speeches, lectures, literature and visuals to motivate minorties into joining the LeT. The CD was recovered by the Gujarat police on Tuesday (September 19) after they busted a Laskar-e-Taiba cell and arrested four men - Illiyas Memon, Khalid Kashmiri, Kari Mufidul and Sirajuddin Ansari from Surat and Ahmedabad.
This is not the first time that such propaganda CDs have been recovered by authorities — there have been several instances of 'motivational' CDs, circulated by Lashkar-e-Toiba militants operating in the Kashmir valley, being seized by J&K police.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
GERALDO on O'REILLY > Radical Iran's Moud desires a permanent seat on the UNSC, and for Iran [Persia] to be a GLOBAL SUPERPOWER, NOT JUST REGIONAL-LOCAL. Basically affirms that Radical Iran wants to be the SOLE SOURCE, THE ALPHA-OMEGA, for Islamist thought and influence. Secular Totalitarian or God-based Totalitarian, the Commies and Spetzlamists want INDIA.
NEW DELHI: Rahil Sheikh, the alleged Lashkar-e-Taiba militant who managed to escape when a joint team of the Delhi and Mumbai police raided his residence in Mumbai this past May, is suspected to have fled to Pakistan. He is also suspected to be involved in the conspiracy behind the serial blasts on Mumbai trains this July.
The Delhi police received inputs about Rahil's activities and whereabouts from Feroz Abdul Latif Ghaswala of Mahim in Mumbai, and his accomplice, Mohammad Ali Chippa of Ahmedabad, after they were arrested at Hazrat Nizamuddin railway station here in May. At their instance, the police also gunned down a Pakistani militant in an encounter.
Investigations revealed that Rahil, who is in his mid-twenties, lived with his mother, sister and two brothers in a flat on Grant Road in Mumbai. After his father passed away, Rahil started attending meetings called by extremist leaders, mostly those owing allegiance to Ahl-e-Hadis who encouraged young men to join ``jihad." Living away from home for long durations, he began working for LeT in 1999. He won the confidence of senior LeT militants and was entrusted with the task of recruiting young men for operations against India.
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Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Once again sorry for boring people but people worldwide need to wake up to the fact that Pakistan is TERRORISM CENTRAL!!!!
#2
Oh, I think they noticed when all the threaads for that 10-plane hijacking plot out of London came together with a beautiful bow in Pakistan, Cheregum Crelet7867.
Coalition forces in Iraq have suddenly received the manpower equivalent of three light infantry divisions. They did not suffer any repercussions in domestic politics as a result, and now have a huge edge over al-Qaeda in al-Anbar province. How did this happen? Tribal leaders in the largely Sunni province on the Syrian border got together and signed an agreement to raise a tribal force of 30,000 fighters to take on foreign fighters and terrorists.
These leaders have thrown in with the central government in Baghdad. This is a decisive blow to al Qaeda, which has been desperately trying to fight off an Iraqi government that is getting stronger by the week. Not only are the 30,000 fighters going to provide more manpower, but these tribal fighters know the province much better than American troops or the foreign fighters fighting for al Qaeda. Also, this represents just over 80 percent of the tribes in al-Anbar province now backing the government. Rest at link.
Posted by: ed ||
09/22/2006 14:58 ||
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#1
They will of course insist on the right of legitimate resistance against coalition forces as said coalition forces assist the tribes in their fight against al Q. Right?
#3
The coalition and the Iraqi government should be all over that "like a duck on a June bug". The idea being to organize them as a uniformed paramilitary whose mission can be "migrated" to perform all sorts of useful and productive work in Anbar.
They start out like a Sunni army, like the Kurdish Peshmurga, but you quickly move them into civilian, not military, development work. So it becomes a jobs program, repairing and integrating Anbar with the central government. From that they become civil service employees for their local government.
Optimally, they end up with so much invested in their local area and Anbar that they are good citizens.
#4
I know that when you are dealing with militias or tribal forces, things can get out of hand. But given our ROE, they could be very helpful in dealing with the bad guyz without being encumbered by our ROE, if ya know what I mean.....It would take a bit of finesse to make it happen without going out of control, but it seems doagble, IMUHO.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/22/2006 16:48 Comments ||
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#5
Los pepes
Posted by: Mark E. ||
09/22/2006 17:21 Comments ||
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NAJAF, Iraq - A top aide and three supporters of Shia radical leader Moqtada Sadr were arrested in a pre-dawn swoop by US and Iraqi forces in the Shia holy city of Najaf Thursday, as part of a nationwide crackdown on sectarian violence. Salah Al Obeidi, a close colleague of Sadr, was picked up from his home in Najaf along with cleric Bassim Al Ghuraifi, the radical leaders office said. Two others were also arrested, but their identities were not immediately known.
A spokesman for Sadrs group in Baghdad, Hazem Al Aaraji, denied he was one of those arrested as reported earlier, but confirmed that security forces had surrounded his house in the Shia shrine district of Kadhimiyah. Military forces sealed off my house for three hours, Aaraji told AFP, without specifying whether they were American or Iraqi.
Hope they're American, you'll get treated better.
Sadrs representatives accused US forces of carrying out arrests and seeking to destabilize regions where security prevails. Americans want confrontation with Sadr because this movement is gaining in popularity. We are trying hard to avoid confrontation and to pursue other ways to resolve this issue, Sheikh Abderrazzak Al Midawi said in Najaf.
"Please don't turn us over to the Sunnis!"
A member of Sadrs movement in Najaf, Sheikh Moayed al-Khazraji told reporters that the cleric had called for the crisis to be resolved peacefully. Sayyed Sadr is keen to avoid the shedding of Iraqi blood and calls for calm, he said.
"Please don't turn us over to the Kurds!"
The US military would neither confirm nor deny the arrests. We are carrying out continuous operations against individuals we believe are responsible for sectarian violence in the country, US military spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Barry Johnson told AFP.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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#3
If they do have to release them, or maybe they could just release them for the heck of it, they should drop them off in front of their houses in a limousine and send them on their way with a loud, heartfelt "Thank you and have a nice day!" and see if they show up for work the next day.
#4
gorb, you left out the part about them being dressed in brand new hand-tailored silk suits with their pockets stuffed full of C-notes and Cuban cigars.
PS: The drop-off crew is supposed to blow them kisses and wave vigorously while thanking them loudly for "their vital cooperation."
#6
I heard this last night, and thought there must be some significance to the fact that Tater's Tots are not rampaging, pilloring, plundering, rioting, and torching everthing in sight.
What's it all about (Alfie)?
Posted by: Bobby ||
09/22/2006 6:41 Comments ||
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#7
AHMADINEJAD in the US. Then we pick up some of Sadr's men. Coincidence? I think not.
#8
we can release them. AFTER we've gotten Baghdad calmed down. The Sammarra bombing unleashed a genuine "cycle of violence" (unlike the so called cycle in Israel-Pal) that the Sadrist rode for all it was worth. IF we can break the cycle, the hope would be that Baghdad naturally calms down, and its not so easy to get the cycle started again. Which means you just need to hold the key Sadrists for a few months. Which Sadr knows - the implicit threat is that if sends his people to the mattresses against the Americans en masse, his people DONT get out in a few months. And maybe we go after him personally. Is it worth the risk? After all, if we win, and Iraq ends up a stable democracy, he probably still ends up a pol leader with enough following to get a cabinet seat and whatever perks accompany. If we lose, and civil war breaks out, while he stands a percentage of becoming El Jefe of Iraq, he also stands a percentage of becoming food for worms, at the hands of any other faction. So while he will push for civil war, he wants to keep open the other options, I think.
#9
As I understand it the tater tots are very unpopular in Najaf so arresting them there isn't too difficult.
The more difficult problem is in baghdad where the tater tots are responsible for hundreds, probably thousands, of murders (although many of the people murdered were probably Baathist scum, al-Q agents, etc. themselves).
#10
Even better, a delivery van should pull up to the house w/a generator, frig, latest computer, killer (and I do mean killer) stereo system, new matresses, linens, etc.
#12
Not just Najaf. Recently, US and Iraqi Army have been taking Shiite neighborhoods and arresting Sadr's black clad terrorists. They are shrinking the areas the Madhi Army can operate in Baghdad. Because of this, fighting has been increasing and expect a big fight once forces reach Sadr City.
Posted by: ed ||
09/22/2006 12:35 Comments ||
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#13
A top aide and three supporters of Shia radical leader Moqtada Sadr were arrested in a pre-dawn swoop by US and Iraqi forces in the Shia holy city of Najaf Thursday
(KUNA) -- A joint Iraqi police and army force arrested Thursday 18 suspected terrorists near Kirkuk and seized large quantities of weapons and explosives. An Iraqi police source told Kuwait News Agency (KUNA) that the Iraqi joint force, backed by Multinational Forces (MNF), carried out a number of raids in Daqouq area, South-West of Kirkuk, and was able to arrest 18 suspects, some of whom were wanted for insurgency cases.
The Iraqi force also confiscated warehouses where various kind of weapons and explosives, including a ton of TNT, were hidden, added the source. He noted that Iraqi police also confiscated 80 rockets hidden near Al-Marai Village, west of Kirkuk.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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Insurgents killed at least 32 people across Iraq on Thursday, 24 of them security men, security officials said. Gunmen killed six policemen when they opened fire on a police station in Baghdads upscale Mansur district, a security official said. Three policemen attached to the Ministry of Electricity were killed when their vehicle was hit by a roadside bomb in southern Baghdads Al-Dura district.
In a separate strike in Baghdad, insurgents set off a car bomb in a market in Al-Hurriyah, killing two people and wounding eight more, the official said. A roadside bomb also went off in east Baghdad killing three and wounding another four. Elsewhere, seven Iraqi soldiers were killed in two incidents in Fallujah. Iraqi army captain Mohammed Fayad said four soldiers were killed and three wounded when a missile hit their camp northeast of Fallujah.
Meanwhile, a top aide and three supporters of Shia radical leader Moqtada Sadr were arrested in a pre-dawn swoop by US and Iraqi forces in Najaf on Thursday. Salah al-Obeidi, a close colleague of Sadr, was picked up from his home in Najaf along with cleric Bassim al-Ghuraifi, the radical leaders office said. Two others were also arrested, but their identities were not immediately known. A spokesman for Sadrs group in Baghdad, Hazem al-Aaraji, denied he was one of those arrested as reported earlier, but confirmed that security forces had surrounded his house in Kadhimiyah. Sadrs representatives accused US forces of carrying out arrests and seeking to destabilise regions where security prevails. The US military would neither confirm nor deny the arrests.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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Insurgents are now using unwitting kidnap victims as suicide bombers - seizing them, booby-trapping their cars without their knowledge, then releasing them only to blow up the vehicles by remote control, the Defense Ministry warned Thursday. It was unclear from the Defense Ministry's statement whether the insurgents are using kidnap victims because they are having trouble finding recruits for suicide missions. Suicide car bombs are responsible for 7 percent of the total Iraqi deaths this year - down considerably from 25 percent of the overall deaths in the last eight months of 2005, according to an Associated Press count.
A U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity said he was aware of such incidents but was unable to provide further details. American officials have said in the past that insurgents often tape or handcuff a suicide driver's hands to a car, or bind his foot to the accelerator pedal, to ensure that he did not back out at the last minute. The remains of such hands and feet have been found at blast sites.
Although roadside bombs are the main weapon used by insurgents, suicide car bombers are often their most effective one - designed to maximize casualties and sow fear among the population. According to the Washington-based Brookings Institution, since the fall of Saddam Hussein to Sept. 17 there have been 343 suicide car bombings involved in attacks causing multiple deaths around Iraq. "According to our intelligence information, recent car bomb explosions targeting checkpoints and public places have nothing to do with (traditional) terrorist operations," the Defense Ministry said in its statement.
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Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
It's psychotic depravity like this which has me nigh-well convinced that nuclear weapons are the only way to cull out this sort of incredible evil.
#2
Its what 3000 years for marrying your first cousin does for you . And yes , level the Middle East totally , Turn it into an area of solar panels and oil to feed power to the decent folk of the world
#6
The "brainwashing" of ALL Moslems is obviously NOT working for everyone, which indicates the existence of other than kood fringe people in the Moslem population. I mean, even the kidnappers themselves aren't buying into the 72-virgin promise and "honor" of "martyrdom." If the world's Moslems were all into this "lifestyle" there wouldn't be any of them left. Got to get rid of the baddies. The others aren't hurting anybody--and if we have to get serious, as in all out war, you'll be glad you had the right attitude. Wars are NOT neat and tidy, even nuclear ones. Please stay rational.
#7
That's "kook" fringe, and if all muzzies deserve death, then there's no reason for raging against the kidnapping bomber muzzies. By logic, they're doing the job for us since they're getting rid of more muzzies.
Three Palestinian militants were killed in northern Gaza on Thursday morning as they handled a rocket launcher they used earlier in the day to fire two Kassam rockets at Sderot, Israel Radio reported. Palestinian sources described the men as "shepherds."
Simple, pious shepherds with rockets and automatic weapons.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
I'm sure they were inspecting the discarded rocket launcher to see if it could be converted to peaceful purposes, or perhaps be recycled into Koran covers.
Posted by: Bobby ||
09/22/2006 8:43 Comments ||
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Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas told the U.N. General Assembly Thursday that the planned national unity government will recognize Israel. The Hamas-led Palestinian government has refused to recognize Israel, end violence, and honor past agreements between Israel and the Palestinians. Palestinians agreed last week to replace the Hamas-led government with a unity government of Hamas and Abbas' more moderate Fatah faction.
Hamas to deny all in 5-4-3...
Posted by: Fred ||
09/22/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Sure, they'll agree to recognize Israel; in English, while denying it in Arabic. Then the EU will resume giving them cash - which will go straight to buying weapons and building bombs.
#2
As soon as they get what they think they want they will 'recognize' that Israel needs to be destroyed. Better pin them down on this one, including clauses saying "OK to arrest entire government" etc. if they try to weasel out. Now to define 'weasel out' . . . .
#3
This is pure unadulterated horseshit. There has been no unequivocal recognition of Israel by Hamas. Without that, there should not be any financial aid released. These maggots have played this game for so long that it is simply unreal. How these politicians can believe that they have gotten away with any sort of victory is like the way a smirking carnival mark walks off with the giant grand prize Teddy bear after blowing over $200.00 on the ring toss to win it.
#7
#3 How these politicians can believe that they have gotten away with any sort of victory ...
Well, that's because we're so much smarter than the other politicians, you moron! Wossamatter wid you?
Posted by: This Politician ||
09/22/2006 8:34 Comments ||
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#8
Does everyone (anyone) read these articles?
"Abbas' moderate Fatah faction struggles to win agreement from the governing Hamas to recognize Israel in negotiations to form a national unity government. The militant Islamic group Hamas won elections in January and has refused to recognize Israel, end violence and honor past agreements with Israel.
There are those in Palestine who'd rather do business with Israel and get rich and lead normal, than blow them up and have all this trouble. Duh.
#10
I sure did, ex-lib, right after I read the article I've cited. And your point is??
Notice how the original link does not have anyone from Hamas actually agreeing with the content of the article. Every other player in this sorry mess has a representative making all the appropriate noises. There may be some Palestinians who are starting to get a clue that maybe, just maybe, living with the Jews next door and making some money isn't a bad way to live, but it still hasn't reached any kind of critical mass to effect a meaningful change in their government or the way it acts.
Abbas can (and will) say anything at this point. Sorry if I don't take his word for what an opposition party is willing to do. I'd rather hear it from Hamas. All they offer is a hudna. They are just trying to buy some time and maybe convince someone to give them $ without backing down from their original stand. I don't consider that progress at all.
#11
What's the rest of their plan ?
They will recognize Israel, then what ? Rebuild the farms and join the world's produce market ? Remove anti-Israeli brainwashing from their schools ? Disarm ? Become productive ? What ?
#13
US money too. Even with the embargo, the US is still providing $245 million jizya this year.
Posted by: ed ||
09/22/2006 12:56 Comments ||
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#14
# 6Instead they want a 5-10 year truce.
# 10All they offer is a hudna.
Glad to see no one's pulling the wool over our Swamp Gal's eyes. You had me worried for a second there with post # 6.
For once and all, people need to realize that the depths of Muslim perfidy absolutely demand the very worst cynicism from anyone forced to deal with them. All promises must be construed as false. All contracts must be looked upon as breached. All assurances of peace must simply be laughed at. This is especially so with respect to the Palestinians. They have consistently broken every promise and agreement entered into during the enitre peace process. Israel knows this and that is why they continue to kick Palestinian ass on every occasion they can. All taqqiya, all the time.
Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas said Friday he will not head a government that recognizes Israel, striking a potential blow to efforts set up a more moderate ruling coalition.
#16
The Israelis, at least those on the conservative side of the aisle, have the required cynicism Zenster. And when they deal with that cynicism in their negotiations the rest of the gullible world thinks the Israelis are assholes. In fact it is the rest of the gullible world that are the marooons.
#19
"Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas said Friday he will not head a government that recognizes Israel, striking a potential blow to efforts set up a more moderate ruling coalition."
For Abbas to announce ANY recognition of Israel is a death wish where he comes from--unless we are maneuvering behind the scenes to help further define Hamas as uncooperative (as in redefining just who is and who is not the problem in Palestine, as in it's not the jooos) for the general public and for military reasons--in which case Abbas is going along with it. If so, hope we'll hold up our end of whatever bargain was struck.
#20
No matter what, if we deal with only Abbas and not Hamas too, we lose. Besides, Hamas gets brownie points at home for looking "uncompromising". Look at the suffering they are causing their own people. Are the Palestinians blaming them for their troubles, or are they blaming a conspiracy of Jews/Americans for their current difficulties? It's the latter. They still haven't gotten the whole cause=effect thingy.
We don't get credit for following through on any promises. They will conveniently forget the ones we deliver on and forever remember the ones we didn't come through with, regardless of whatever justification we may have for not doing so. They will continue to spew their hate, indoctrinate their young to think of being a martyr as the highest good, and dream of ways to drive Israel into the sea.
No thanks, ex-lib. They know what our conditions have been from the start, and that is, recognition of Israel's right to exist. They wanna sit in the corner and hold their breath till they turn blue, stamping their feet, fine with me.
When they finally grow up, then we can deal with them. Not before.
#21
"We don't get credit for following through on any promises."
Right, but that wasn't my point.
I meant for the sake of Abbas, I hope we follow through on whatever backup we've (perhaps) promised in connection with his speaking in support of recognition of Israel--cuz' he's going to be totally DEAD--like so many other moderate Palestinian leaders who have dared to go against the tide.
Just because I try to focus attention toward the existence of Moslems who aren't down with the Satan/West thingy, doesn't mean I don't understand what's going on. I've been on the Burg for four years.
The problem is, it's the insane Moslem mullahs and political leaders that are actually pushing this toward war (with Russia and China waiting quietly in the wings). And why is that? Differing theories exist. But what is not arguable is that these world leaders and their idiot minions know very well what they're doing in terms of manipulating both the right and the left in America their direction and toward their (ultimate) power strategy. In politics you've got to wonder what's beneath the surface.
Frankly, I don't want to play into their hands since they trying SO hard to create a REACTION from us. We should stay in control and continue to go after the hardliners.
#22
Just because I try to focus attention toward the existence of Moslems who aren't down with the Satan/West thingy, doesn't mean I don't understand what's going on. I've been on the Burg for four years.
Same here. I've been Desert Blondie before I moved from Arizona to Florida and became Swamp Blondie. And I have stated before that I'm not ready to go along with some of the "kill 'em all" talk that has been ratcheting up here lately. Please don't patronize me.
Somehow I doubt that Abbas has turned into the Palestinian "Menachem Begin" (aka former terrorist turned peacemaker). If you want to put me down as another cynical Gen X'er, fine. Guilty as charged.
I just don't see right now how he can deliver on anything he promises. Maybe I missed something, but what has he managed to bring about that he said he would? Talk is cheap, especially in the ME.
I don't want to play into their hands, either. They have a long history of saying one thing in English and something completely different in Arabic for domestic consumption. They also have a history of promising the moon and ignoring every single thing they swore they would carry out (aka Oslo).
Quite frankly, he can screech "Kumbaya" all he wants from a compound in Ramallah, but if he can't deliver a single friggin' thing, so what? It's wasted cash and effort we could be spending on someone else, or a bunch of someone elses, who could. Find him, her, or the gang of them that can, and stop wasting time with this guy if he can't deliver anything but empty words.
(And some of youse guys here on the 'burg don't think a liberal can look at the bottom line and demand results.... ;) )
WTF? Where are you coming from and what are you talking about?
I MEANT that I "get it" about how bad the muzzies are (and since you're Desert Blondie I'm presuming you already know that). I'm not a dumb-dumb peacenik when it comes to Arabs or Moslems. Sheesh.
Also, when I said "Just because I try to focus attention toward the existence of Moslems who aren't down with the Satan/West thingy, doesn't mean I don't understand what's going on," I'm commenting on the absolutist views regarding the advocation for the extermination of the Moslem people, circulating around here lately. I've been anti-terror and not too fond of the muzzies, to put it mildly, from day one, but there's entirely too much knee-jerk from the group of late, and that always puts you in a bad position. (If you play poker you know what I'm talking about.) Sure, we have to be ready to do what it takes, and it might have really bad consequences on many innocent people who are trapped in these countries controlled by crazies, but it's not something to run toward with open arms. That's all I'm saying. And I'm getting a lot of flack for even "Daring" to suggest some moderation and analysis when it comes to this conflict. When I see everyone charging off in EXACTLY the direction Mr. Ahminahajib in Iran wants the West to go, I get a little worried. Iran can do things some of the other Moslem countries only dream of. And he can't wait. And neither can they. So, if we respond with "imperial overreach" and spread ourselves too thin, politically and militarily, it will prove disasterous.
Next, I NEVER said Abbas has turned into a "Palestinian 'Menachem Begin' peacemaker," and I don't see how he can deliver anything he promises either, considering his situation and lack of real power, even if he wanted to, which I think he does, but he's outgunned--which is why something else is going on behind the scenes, or he wouldn't have claimed that they were willing to recognize Israel's legitimacy. Either it's a ruse or we're backing him in order to define and target. It's just an opinion.
Finally, I have no idea whatsoever about "And some of youse guys here on the 'burg don't think a liberal can look at the bottom line and demand results." What does that even mean?
Look, not everything in that post was directed at you, especially that last line. It was more of an inside joke towards some of the conservative guys on this board. Why else do you think it was in parentheses? Trust me, they know exactly what I was driving at.
Ok, maybe I misinterpreted your attitude at the end of that "I've been here four years" remark. If so, I apologize. But it still came across to me as incredibly patronizing, as if I was just some ditz who stumbled across this site last week. Hence the remark.
And lastly, the remark about Begin is mine and mine alone. I never claimed you made it. I was using it as an example of precisely what he is *NOT*, namely a bad guy who has seen the error of his past ways and is trying to leave a decent legacy behind at the end of his life. Abbas isn't that kind of guy. He also is a freakin' joke and can't do a blessed thing to change the situation.
I personally think he's hoping to get something for doing absolutely nothing, so he'll mouth all the nice things he thinks we want to hear. He did it before, he'll do it again, and we aren't going to get anywhere until we deal with someone who can actually bring about change. He gets a shiv or gets blown up, no big loss. He's been working on that kind of payback for a long time, and it couldn't happen to a nicer bag o' crap. That's all.
#28
So, if all muzzies are not the enemy, and those innocent muzzies act, talk, and dress just like the enemy, what should be done ?
1. Go about your business then if attacked, fight back, bleed and die.
2. Totally avoid all muzzies.
3. Make all muzzies strip to their sox before letting them within 50 yards of you.
4. Ask them if they are on a jihad.
5. Tell them you are a muzzie on jihad and they must leave if they are innocent.
6. Gather evidence at any bomb scene, and try to match DNA samples.
7. Tell an allan joke and watch if they laugh.
8. Show them an allan cartoon and check their reaction.
9. Frisk everyone you come in contact with searching for weapons, etc.
10. Ask them what is the main reason they will not convert to another religion.
11. Wait till prayer time and when they lay out their little prayer rug, try to smell the gun oil on it.
None of the above seem efficient enough for everyday life. Does anyone have any ideas ? I'm stuck on kill 'em all.
#29
It's okay SB. I think tensions are running high on the boards, especially because of certain agitators who set up long, important sounding diatribes or short quippy things that stir emotions, and seem to have a semblance of logic, but are actually well-versed manipulations. Don't know if that makes sense, but this directions and those doing it are setting up a hierarchy of social dominance and a kind of dogma for their adherents.
That said--no, I was complimenting Rantburg as an educational resource when I said "I've been here 4 years." I wasn't trying to say anything but that (just read it with a different tone and you'll get it). : ) I also was letting other readers know that I'm not a softie.
#30
wx: as long as they're not threatening the US or US interests, they can be as stupid as they want to be. Now the tough part. Right, if the governments of these countries are posing a threat to us, everyone in their country might have to pay the price (which is too bad and unfair). The only other thing is sanctions, coalitions, or arming the resistance movements in their countries. The problem with the ME is the oil and the huge capital that brings them to play these games. Same with Chavez. BTW, your list was hysterical and points out the utter insanity and frustration all of us are feeling. Thanks.
#31
Does anyone have any ideas ? I'm stuck on kill 'em all.
Well then hop to it! What're you waiting for?!?
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/22/2006 21:16 Comments ||
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#32
I don't want to play into their hands, either. They have a long history of saying one thing in English and something completely different in Arabic for domestic consumption. They also have a history of promising the moon and ignoring every single thing they swore they would carry out (aka Oslo).
Quite frankly, he can screech "Kumbaya" all he wants from a compound in Ramallah, but if he can't deliver a single friggin' thing, so what? It's wasted cash and effort we could be spending on someone else, or a bunch of someone elses, who could. Find him, her, or the gang of them that can, and stop wasting time with this guy if he can't deliver anything but empty words.
Bingo, Blondie. Long ago Abbas demonstrated that he is merely the same old (sour) wine in a new bottle. The fact that he has access to the Israeli prisoner Shalit and yet does nothing but prolong the hostage situation is a firm indicator of what to expect.
In his speech where he, for once, looked as if he was beginning to place blame upon the Palestinians, instead of the Jews, he nonetheless refers to the rockets sent into Israeli territory as "pipes" instead of calling them what they actually are and taking true responsibility.
Finally, That Abbas ever adopted his nom de guerre of "Abu Mazen" only goes to show that he continues to pander to the absolute worst side of Palestinians and their politics, namely, that of violence and war.
#16
I've read Sgt. Mom's delightful book, and so I know it's best to stay on her good side. I'll bet Fred's read it, too.
Posted by: Mike ||
09/22/2006 13:31 Comments ||
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#17
Ummm... I did get to be a mom, in the usual way, in that there was an unclothed gentleman involved... and one never looses one's aesthetic apprecation for a comely set of shoulders, and other physical attributes.
#18
We're all saints, RD? Dammit, another critical item nobody bothered to tell me! I s'pose now I'm going to have to give up tea parties as useless frivolity, and start wearing serious shoes. Why/ does nobody inform me of these things in a timely manner? I'm going to have to do some serious shopping next week, and rearrange the furniture in the living room to set up a proper little chapel for my meditations ... Mr. Wife is not going to be pleased about this, no indeed he is not.
#19
Ummm, TW? We need to talk .... Insofar as all mothers are saints, it does NOT imply ecclesiastical remodeling. Or any particular style of footwear, although i can think of a few styles that are contraindicated.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
(RIA Novosti) - Five Russian Interior Ministry servicemen were killed in the Chechen capital Thursday as the car in which they were riding came under fire, a source in the republic's law-enforcement authorities said. One of the servicemen died while an ambulance was taking him to hospital. "There is every reason to believe this was an ambush, and that the criminals made their escape in a car," Chechen prosecutor Valery Kuznetsov said. Criminal proceedings have been launched and an investigation is underway.
SRINAGAR: Indian forces on Thursday killed at least five suspected Islamist militants, four of them in a gunbattle close to the Line of Control (LoC), a police officer said. Police launched a joint operation with the army after receiving a tip-off that four armed men were around Lachipora village, said area police chief Viplav Kumar. A gunbattle ensued and government forces later found the bodies of four suspected insurgents, Kumar told The Associated Press.
Ten people were killed and five injured on Thursday when gunmen opened fire on a passenger van at Toddo Mara, some 40 kilometres from Islamabad. The attackers drove up in a car with Islamabad registration plates and stopped the van on its way to Haripur from Kangra Colony, pulled its driver Mubasher out and shot him dead. Then, the attackers opened fire at the van passengers indiscriminately, killing five people Abdul Basit, Raja Irfan, Qaiser, Khurshid and Fayyaz at the scene. Muhammad Saleem and Nazakat died of bullet wounds on the way to hospital. 
SARGODHA: Two unidentified gunmen on Thursday morning shot dead a Shia leader in Sargodha's Muslim Bazaar, police said. Two men on motorbikes approached Bashir Hussain and fired at him in what witnesses described as a drive-by shooting. Husain was rushed immediately to DHQ Hospital, where he later died of his injuries. As news of his death rapidly spread through the city, a group of locals came on to the roadside to raise protest slogans. They also blocked approaching roads with burning tyres. Police personnel have been deployed at imambargahs.
TIMES NOW has acquired a CD recovered from arrested LeT militants, which confirms for the first time that Maulana Masood Azhar, the leader of the Jaish-e-Mohammad who is based out of Pakistan, has embarked on a war against India. In the CD, Maulana Masood Azhar who was freed by the government in exchange for hostages during the IC 814 hijacking, is exhorting young men to rise up in arms and join the 'jihad' against India. 
NEW DELHI: 
NAJAF, Iraq - A top aide and three supporters of Shia radical leader 
(KUNA) -- A joint Iraqi police and army force arrested Thursday 18 suspected terrorists near Kirkuk and seized large quantities of weapons and explosives. An Iraqi police source told Kuwait News Agency (KUNA) that the Iraqi joint force, backed by Multinational Forces (MNF), carried out a number of raids in Daqouq area, South-West of Kirkuk, and was able to arrest 18 suspects, some of whom were wanted for insurgency cases.
Insurgents killed at least 32 people across Iraq on Thursday, 24 of them security men, security officials said. Gunmen killed six policemen when they opened fire on a police station in Baghdads upscale Mansur district, a security official said. Three policemen attached to the Ministry of Electricity were killed when their vehicle was hit by a roadside bomb in southern Baghdads Al-Dura district.
Insurgents are now using unwitting kidnap victims as suicide bombers - seizing them, booby-trapping their cars without their knowledge, then releasing them only to blow up the vehicles by remote control, the Defense Ministry warned Thursday. It was unclear from the Defense Ministry's statement whether the insurgents are using kidnap victims because they are having trouble finding recruits for suicide missions. Suicide car bombs are responsible for 7 percent of the total Iraqi deaths this year - down considerably from 25 percent of the overall deaths in the last eight months of 2005, according to an Associated Press count.
Three Palestinian militants were killed in northern Gaza on Thursday morning as they handled a rocket launcher they used earlier in the day to fire two Kassam rockets at Sderot, Israel Radio reported. Palestinian sources described the men as "shepherds."
