RIYADH - Saudi Arabia said on Tuesday it had taken into custody a man on the kingdomâs most wanted list of fugitive Al Qaeda suspects. An Interior Ministry statement on the state-run Saudi Press Agency named the militant as Adnan bin Abdullah Al Omari, who featured on a list of 36 wanted men published in June.
Another of the al-Omari clan, turn over a rock and one crawls out.
A ministry spokesman declined to give any details, saying: âWe have got him back. Heâs one of the men whose name was mentioned on the list.â
Not that you're going to do anything to him
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 14:46 ||
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Influential Muslim cleric Youssef al-Qaradawi has called for calm in French riots led by disaffected immigrants, many of them Muslims of North African origin, the official Qatar News Agency reported. Qaradawi, dean of an Islamic college in Qatar known to millions of Arabic-speakers through a weekly show on the Al Jazeera television, also called on the French government to address the root causes of the violence. "As Arabs and Muslims we wish for security, safety and peace for France and its friendly people, not least because France has an attitude towards Arab and Islamic issues which is just and free from American domination," the agency quoted him as saying late on Monday. "He (Qaradawi) called on Muslim religious and political leaders in France to intensify their efforts and their calls for calm," the agency said. "He called on the French government to deal with the situation not only from a security perspective, but also use dialogue with religious and political leaders to treat the real reasons behind the deteriorating conditions of (minority) communities in France."
France's conservative government has struggled to respond to two weeks of overnight rioting by youths frustrated over unemployment, harsh treatment by police and racism. Qaradawi often addresses the situation of Muslim communities living in Western countries in his Al Jazeera appearances. Though seen as a moderate in the Arab world, pro-Israeli groups in the West have attacked him for backing Palestinian suicide bombings and attacks on Israeli civilian targets.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 08:29 ||
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Yup.. go back to yer homes.. and beat your women.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
11/08/2005 8:59 Comments ||
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France is our ally, not Americas. And France, if you do decide to become America's ally we have given you only a taste of what we do to our enemies. Resume you dhimmitude.
Colombian authorities arrested a suspected leftist rebel leader at Bogota's international airport in a journey that included Texas. Farouk Shaikh Reyes is wanted in Florida on drug trafficking charges. Investigators say Shaikh Reyes is an alleged foreign envoy of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC. Shaikh Reyes apparently had earlier traveled to Mexico by land from Houston. He was captured after he stepped off a flight late Saturday from Mexico City. Shaikh Reyes was sought on charges of conspiracy to import between one to six tons of cocaine into the U-S.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 01:03 ||
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MUSLIM leaders have appealed for calm amid claims that heavy-handed tactics were used during police raids across two states early yesterday morning.
The Mufti of Australia, Sheik Taj Din al-Hilaly, used Islamic radio to plead for patience among the community as Islamic leaders asked for more information about the operation.
And Australian Federation of Islamic Councils president Ameer Ali said the community was afraid of a new wave of mistrust directed at Muslims from the wider community.
"(We) feel afraid that elements of the broader community might take the law into their own hands and attack members of the Muslim community," Mr Ali said.
"The Government should provide protection for the Muslim community," he said.
Sydney barrister Phillip Boulten SC, acting for the men arrested in Sydney, said the politicians who had made comments on the cases were treading on dangerous legal ground.
He said he would examine media reports of the comments of "various people in high office" to ensure whether what was said was "fair commentary or prejudicial to the interests of justice".
One of Australia's most respected moderate Muslim leaders, Sheik Fehmi Naji al-Imam, the leader of Victoria's Preston mosque, said he was praying for the safety of those arrested.
"We hope that nothing comes out to prove that they've done anything wrong," he said.
Several residents of the houses raided in Sydney complained about a heavy-handed approach by police, who they said were rougher than they needed to be.
"All we saw was all these police officers on top of our heads," said Mohammed's sister-in-law Nada. "They are arrogant bastards, they treat people like animals. We are being persecuted for being Muslim.
"Imagine waking up with all these police officers over you. You can tell by the way the police were acting that these new terror laws have given them the freedom to treat us like animals."
Followers of controversial Sheik Abdul Salam Mohammed Zoud were planning to offer help to the families of many of those who were arrested, but it is understood the accused did not have any links with Sheik Zoud's Haldon Street prayer hall.
Sheik Zoud refused to comment on the raids.
A spokesman for the controversial Islamic political organisation Hizb-ut-Tahrir Wassim Doureihi said no members of his organisation had been raided.
"We have not and I don't expect that to be the case," he said.
Mr Doureihi said the raids - completed under existing laws - showed new counter-terrorism laws being considered were "clearly not just targeted at those engaged in violence, they are targeted at those calling for political Islam" such as his organisation.
Islamic Friendship Association of Australia spokesman Keysar Trad said he was annoyed that media appeared to have been notified of the locations of the raids.
"Things could have gotten out of hand today. There were scuffles. These could have all been avoided," he said.
Lebanese Muslim Association spokesman Abdul El Ayoubi said his organisation had been flooded with calls from members expressing alarm that yesterday's raids were targeted at Muslims rather than terrorists.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/08/2005 17:45 ||
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"Whoa Nellie! These blokes ain't like the Frogs. They're all over us like a bad suit. We better stay calm, boyz, or they'll be eating our lunch before the devil Allah gets His shoes curly toed slippers on."
#2
One of Australia's most respected moderate Muslim leaders, Sheik Fehmi Naji al-Imam, the leader of Victoria's Preston mosque, said he was praying for the safety of those arrested.
"We hope that nothing comes out to prove that they've done anything wrong," he said.
Okay, if I read that correctly through the double engatives he's hoping that no evidence proves them innocent. Typo? Misstatement? Idiocy? or knowledge of their guilt.
#3
He's saying he hopes Oz can't prove it. Whatever they did was OK as long as they don't get caught.
Somebody should tell Mr. Ali that because the law is finding out who has violated it in a timely fashion, no one will see the need to take the law into their own hands. The government should provide no protection to the Mohammedan community. It should provide equal protection to each Australian subject.
#5
The morning news shows were full of muzzie talking heads who appeared not give a damm about innocents being blown up and kept going on about how everyone was being unfair to muzzies.
BTW, a police car was petrol bombed in Sydney last night.
ANOTHER home was raided in Sydney last night as police continued their search for terror suspects.
Four police cars, an ambulance and a bomb squad vehicle raced into Glenview Ave, Panania, about 6pm.
The street, near an industrial area, was closed off for an hour as officers searched the house looking for suspected terrorists or evidence.
No arrests were made.
Late last night police were still searching a blue van parked outside the house.
Neighbours said the resident of the home, who did not appear to be in, was a Lebanese Muslim with two young children.
One resident, who did not wish to be named, said: "The 4WDs came speeding around the corner, there were no sirens and no lights. Then they blocked the street and I was told to get inside for my own safety."
A Lebanese Muslim neighbour said he had tried to befriend the man but he seems to "keep to himself".
"I say hello to him but he never says hello back," the neighbour said.
"He's not very talkative and rarely leaves the house. They don't seem to get many visitors either."
About 10.30pm a young man in his 20s pulled up in a vehicle outside the house.
The man, believed to be the brother of the resident, pushed past the officers and shouted: "That's my f...in' brother in there.
"Don't f...in' touch me I'll co-operate if you tell the media to turn their lights off. There will be violence if I see a camera."
The man then shoved a cameraman, who was rescued by police trying to calm the man.
Earlier in the day, a mix of anger and astonishment prevailed in the quiet suburban streets around Lakemba and Bankstown after the early morning swoops on terrorist suspects.
At the Myall St, Punchbowl, house of one of the seven arrested men - Khaled Cheikho - an occupant was obviously enraged by the arrest.
"You mongrels better get out of here or I'll get in my car and run over your head," he shouted from a window, pointing at a late model Mercedes parked in the driveway of the one-storey house.
At the Sir Joseph Banks St, Bankstown, unit of fellow suspect Mazen Touma, his young wife said: "I'm not in the mood to talk."
Another woman, wearing a traditional head-to-toe Muslim hijab, and escorting two young boys, denied she was there to visit Touma.
Neighbours around suspect Mirsad Mulhalilovic's home in Kent St, Belmore, said the Bosnian's demeanour had changed over the past 18 months.
In that time he had married, they said, and become more religious in his appearance and attitude.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/08/2005 16:24 ||
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These folk don't like the press. Usually the press is all on their side and rooting for them. Wonder whats wrong here.
FIVE associates of terrorist suspects gang-bashed a cameraman outside Melbourne Magistrates' Court yesterday. The gang rained kicks and punches on Channel 7 cameraman Matt Rose, dragged him by the hair and then smashed him with a chair. Chairs were thrown at other cameramen and into traffic on William St. A mother and her child sitting at outdoor tables where the attack happened were lucky to escape injury. One of the men raised a metal table and threatened to throw it at photographers.
Mr Rose, 31, was left with a bloodied face and might need stitches to his right cheek, which was still bleeding hours later. Herald Sun photographers John Hart and Craig Borrow, who was punched in the jaw, were witnesses to the attack. The attackers had been sitting in court during a bail application for accused terrorists Hany Taha and Abdulla Merhi.
A scuffle broke out inside the court building minutes before the attack when the group came outside during the lunch break about 1.10pm. As the men walked down William St, a large media pack followed, but most had dropped off when the attack happened on the corner of Little Lonsdale St. Mr Rose said the men were demanding he stop filming when he was struck from behind. "I was by myself when one of them hit me over the back of the head and kept trying to punch me," Mr Rose said. "Then they all jumped in. I eventually went to ground and one of them hit me with a chair. I'm just doing my job."
Mr Rose said he would consider pressing charges. The Herald Sun's Borrow said the attack was unprovoked. "All of a sudden Matt was targeted because he was at the front. I saw Matt's TV camera go flying in the air and he went down. They went in with kicks and punches and tried to drag him along the ground. Then one of them came over, lined me up and hit me in the jaw."
#4
They are showing this on bbc. There were 3 of them all jihadi bearded up laying into a camera man. If I was there I would of layed the boot in on them fat fucks
#7
Wow. Proves how "weird in the head" these Islamists are--no fear of the law, no fear of the countries/governments of the countries/ they reside in. To them, the fact that they are allowed to live in foreign countries proves the inherent weakness of those countries/peoples. And that's something they see as serving them now or in the future. Believe it.
SYDNEY - Australian counter-terrorist forces shot and seriously wounded a suspected extremist wearing a backpack during raids in Sydney early on Tuesday, police said. New South Wales state police said the man was walking near a mosque in the Sydney suburb of Green Valley mid-morning when officers who had him under surveillance ordered him to stop.
A police spokesman said the man fired a number of shots at police, who returned fire and shot him in the neck.
Most likely trying for a head shot.
The man was taken to hospital, where he is in a serious condition.
I hope it's extremely painful
A bomb squad robot was called in to examine the contents of the backpack and found it contained a second handgun, police said. The suspect, in his 20s, underwent surgery and was in a stable condition under police guard in hospital. Police said the man would be charged with unspecified offences.
Shooting at cops, unlicensed handgun, backpacking without a permit
Sixteen other suspected militants were charged in court earlier on Tuesday with planning a terrorist attack or membership of a âterrorist organisationâ after a series of pre-dawn raids by counter-terrorism forces in Australiaâs two biggest cities, Sydney and Melbourne.
âFour officers from Green Valley police station attended Wilson Road, saw the man that was of interest and as they did, he saw them,â said New South Wales Assistant Police Commissioner Graeme Morgan. âWitnesses have told police that he produced a firearm and fired at the police.â
"You'll never take me alive, coppers!"
The man fired twice, with one bullet grazing an officerâs hand before a colleague fired back, police alleged.
That's at least a attempted murder charge
âOne of the police officers returned fire and the person of interest to police was wounded in the neck,â Morgan said.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 10:20 ||
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Shooting at cops, unlicensed handgun, backpacking without a permit
Don't forget littering from all the blood he smeared around, and loitering from when he was laying on the sidewalk. Gotta add insult to injury in cases like this.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/08/2005 12:22 Comments ||
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It can be reported that neck shots sometimes hurt worser than head shots.
Posted by: Mo Hair ||
11/08/2005 18:29 Comments ||
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they definitely hurt longer *snicker*
anybody think of checking out the mosqkkk he was walking (to) near?
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/08/2005 20:09 Comments ||
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REPORTS a group of men were stockpiling chemicals to carry out a terrorist attack in Australia led to raids in Sydney and Melbourne, New South Wales Premier Morris Iemma said. Nine men have been charged in Melbourne with terrorism related offences and seven were being held in Sydney after a joint counter-terrorism strike in the two states this morning.
An Australian Federal Police (AFP) spokesman said 23 search warrants were executed in suburbs across Sydney and Melbourne as part of a joint counter-terrorism operation by the federal, NSW , Victorian police and ASIO. "Intelligence was received that a group was making arrangements to stockpile chemicals and other materials capable of making explosives," Mr Iemma said in Sydney today. "I've been further advised that police believe the group was planning a terrorist attack in Australia."
Mr Iemma said more than 360 NSW police along with 70 federal officers carried out the raids in Sydney this morning about 2.30am (AEDT). "I am advised that at least five of those arrested in Sydney are Australian citizens," he said. Mr Iemma thanked NSW police, their Victorian counterparts, the AFP and security agencies, for their efforts.
"Today's events leave us in no doubt at all of the need to be vigilant and unceasing in our efforts against the threat of terrorism and that threat is real and dangerous," he said. "Our determination to fight is unrelenting."
He said today's police activities were "in relation to laws that have been passed (by the Federal Government)." "(There's been) a determination on the part of governments, this government, our colleagues in Victoria and our Commonwealth colleagues to provide our law enforcement and security agencies with the security, with the resources and the laws they need in this unrelenting fight against terror." UPDATE - EFL:In a day of dramatic developments:
One suspect, 28-year-old Omar Baladjam was gunned down by police outside a Sydney mosque after allegedly shooting an officer in the hand as he tried to flee
A court was told the group was about to launch an attack to kill "innocent men and women in Australia". "Each of the members of the group are committed to the cause of violent jihad," prosecutor Richard Maidment QC said.
The suspected mastermind was Melbourne Muslim cleric Abdul Nacer Benbrika, better known as Abu Bakr, who has previously described Osama bin Laden as a "great man".
One of the Melbourne group, Ahmed Merhi, 20, was expecting his first child but dreamed of being a suicide bomber in Australia. "He wanted to die here. He said he wanted to be a martyr (for Islam). It was quite clear that he wanted to go similar to a suicide bomber," Det-Sgt Chris Murray told Melbourne Magistrates Court.
Police allege the group had stockpiled hundreds of litres of the volatile chemical acetone â the same substance used in the London bombings â and was preparing to begin a campaign of terror within weeks.
Police will allege the same chemical used in the London bombings in July â acetone â was being hoarded by the suspects for a similar attack in Sydney and Melbourne. Acetone is a key ingredient in common nail polish remover but becomes a deadly explosive when mixed with hydrogen peroxide (hair bleach) and sulphuric acid (drain cleaner).
The explosive known as acetone peroxide was dubbed the "mother of Satan" after the London bombings in July, which killed 54 people and maimed hundreds of others.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 01:10 ||
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Heard on the radio that some of the chemicals were ingredients to make TATP, the explosive used in the London attacks. Have any Aussies heard what the targets may have been?
Posted by: ed ||
11/08/2005 6:50 Comments ||
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What are the statutes for torture in Australia?? I'm sure the interrigators can find out what the targets were!!
#4
Heard on the radio that some of the chemicals were ingredients to make TATP, the explosive used in the London attacks.
And in that freak suicide in Oklahoma.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/08/2005 8:01 Comments ||
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Via Tim Blair:
Senator Barnaby Joyce: âThese people were, obviously, from what weâve heard in the news, well advanced in a plan to attack one of the train stations in Melbourne or Sydney.
Posted by: ed ||
11/08/2005 8:15 Comments ||
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Damn Amish and their violent religion of hate! Why can't they follow the example of the peaceful, tolerant muslim fundamentalists?
EXTRA counter-terrorism police have arrived in Sydney to take part in the 24-hour surveillance of two suspects believed to be planning an attack on Australian soil.
The Australian understands a command post has been established in Sydney to monitor the men, one of whom has been linked to the outlawed terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba.
A parallel operation is under way in Melbourne and it is believed raids are imminent on the properties of the six suspects, even though it would not necessarily lead to arrests.
Anti-terror police have asked for advice from the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions in the light of a one-word amendment to federal anti-terrorism legislation passed by parliament last week.
Police declined to comment last night on the operations, which involve dozens of police in NSW and Victoria.
The group have been electronically monitored for the past 12 months. Several of them are closely linked to fugitive Sydney man Saleh Jamal, who was arrested on weapons charges in Lebanon after the Australian Federal Police warned their Lebanese counterparts that Jamal intended to become a suicide bomber.
Police sources indicated some of the group first came to the attention of authorities before the Sydney Olympic Games.
Attorney-General Philip Ruddock yesterday defended the rushed amendment to the legislation while admitting arrests were not imminent.
"Authorities needed to be able to act if there was information about a potential terrorist act but where you didn't know the detail as to where and when it might occur," Mr Ruddock told the Ten Network's Meet the Press.
"The information we had suggested it would be desirable to have it in place now. That doesn't mean in any way that I or the Prime Minister influence operational issues. They are matters dealt with independently by the police and other authorities. Whatever will happen will happen at an appropriate time, if at all."
Mr Ruddock said the important thing was for police to have the capacity to deal with the threat -- which they now had.
He refused to comment on reports that spy agency ASIO was aware of a new radical cell comprising the Australian-born offspring of Muslim immigrants.
"Typecasting is never helpful," he said. "To suggest it is a particular group and to characterise it in a particular way isn't helpful either."
It was revealed in The Weekend Australian that John Howard's decision to publicly reveal the terror threat last week had caused a rift between the spy agency ASIO and state and federal police over the security of the counter-terrorist operations.
Senior police claimed the Prime Minister's announcement had jeopardised their monitoring and surveillance work.
But NSW and federal police were not officially commenting yesterday.
One of the Sydney men, who is a target of the current operation, had allegedly been identified by a US terrorist informant who claimed to have met him at a military training camp run by the outlawed militia group Lashkar-e-Taiba.
It is believed the man is the key link to another group of men in Melbourne who had been seen filming Melbourne landmarks including the stock exchange and tram stations. The group were all the subject of ASIO raids in June this year.
One of the Sydney men who was raided was highly distressed after the agents spent more than 24 hours searching his home in the western suburbs.
A relative of the young man said the agents even searched the roof of his home, leaving him and his family very upset.
The relative, who did not want to be identified, denied the man had done anything wrong, and claimed the raid was an example of the authorities unfairly targeting Muslims.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 01:04 ||
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good for Howard. John Howard's decision to publicly reveal the terror threat last week had caused a rift between the spy agency ASIO and state and federal police over the security of the counter-terrorist operations.
The spies would have just sat back and watched until they "lost contact" with their suspects and something blew up, like always happens. While I doubt it was helpful to give all the details that we are reading, it is more helpful than doing nothing but watching and waiting until Kingdom come.
Australian authorities believe they have foiled a major terrorist attack, arresting 17 people on Tuesday during raids in the country's two biggest cities of Sydney and Melbourne.
The arrests come less than a week after Prime Minister John Howard said Australia received intelligence about a "terrorist threat" and urgently amended anti-terror laws making it easier for police to arrest suspects.
"Intelligence was received that a group was making arrangements to stockpile chemicals and other materials capable of making explosives," New South Wales state Premier Morris Iemma told a news conference in Sydney.
"Police believe that the group was planning a terrorist attack in Australia," Iemma said.
Victorian state Police Commissioner Christine Nixon said the target of any possible attack was not known, but ruled out a threat to the Commonwealth Games â due to be held in Melbourne in March and opened by Britain's Queen Elizabeth II.
"We believe they were planning an operation, we weren't exactly sure when nor, more importantly, what they planned to damage or do harm to," Nixon told Australian radio.
Australian media last week reported that possible targets for extremists under police surveillance were the Sydney Opera House, harbour bridge, two Sydney oil refineries, the Australian stock exchange in Melbourne and Melbourne's main rail station.
Australia, a staunch U.S. ally with troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, has never suffered a major peacetime attack on home soil. The country has been on medium security alert since shortly after the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.
Four Australians are awaiting trial in Sydney and Melbourne on terror charges, linked to supporting and training with banned groups such as al Qaeda.
Police raided 23 houses in Sydney and Melbourne early on Tuesday as part of the country's largest ever counter-terrorism operation involving hundreds of police, following a 16-month investigation.
"We believe ⊠we've disrupted a large-scale operation which, had it been allowed to go through to fruition, we certainly believe would have been catastrophic," New South Wales state Police Commissioner Ken Moroney told Australian television.
Police confiscated a number of items in the raids, including chemicals that if combined would be "volatile," said Moroney.
Several searches were still under way, police told Reuters.
Police said eight people were arrested in Sydney and nine in Melbourne. Those arrested have been charged with offences including acts in preparation of a terrorist attack, being a member of a terrorist group and conspiracy to commit a terrorist act. One man has been charged with directing a terrorist group.
Police have not identified any of those arrested, but one of them included outspoken Muslim cleric Abu Bakr, his lawyer Rob Stary told reporters.
Bakr has voiced his support for al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden, defended Muslims fighting U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, but denied any involvement in terror activities.
The Australia Security Intelligence Organization (ASIO), last week acknowledged for the first time that Australia had home-grown extremists, some of whom had received terror training overseas.
Media reports have said ASIO is believed to have concerns over up to 800 Muslims in Australia who have voiced support for politically motivated violence, while up to 80 people resident in Australia were known to have trained with militant organizations in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:55 ||
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SECURITY forces in two states have interrupted an imminent terrorist attack with the potential to cause "great harm" in the community, Victoria's police chief said.
In the largest anti-terrorist operation seen in Australia, Victorian, New South Wales and Federal Police, ASIO and the NSW Crimes Commission conducted simultaneous raids on properties in Melbourne and Sydney about 2.30am (AEDT) today, arresting 17 people on terrorist-related offences.
One of those arrested in Melbourne was Abu Bakr, a Muslim cleric who made headlines in August for publicly stating his support for al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden.
The raids followed the announcement by Prime Minister John Howard last week of a possible terrorist strike on Australian soil, which prompted urgent amendments to legislation to widen the power of police to arrest and detain terror suspects.
In a news conference today, Victoria Police Chief Commissioner Christine Nixon said police feared a terrorist attack was about to occur.
"We were concerned that an attack was imminent and we believe that we have sufficient evidence to go before the courts to show that," Mrs Nixon said.
"It became more obvious to us as information became available to us that the way these people were behaving was of serious concern and that we needed to interrupt that activity and operation as soon as we could."
Australian Federal Police (AFP) agent Frank Prendergast told the Melbourne news conference that computers seized during the raids in the city would be examined for data as police investigate links with overseas organisations.
Authorities confirmed today they were examining connections between the men arrested overnight in Sydney and Melbourne and overseas networks.
Agent Prendergast would not reveal which country or countries were being looked at, but said there was no specific evidence linking the men to the group behind the London bombings.
"The investigation is on-going. The AFP and the other agencies have made extensive use of the AFP's overseas liaison network and are consulting widely with overseas agencies.
"Terrorism is an international issue and whether groups are locally or internationally connected, there's no doubt that international events impact on what they're doing," he said.
"We're investigating linkages, we're making inquiries overseas and I'm not prepared to go into specifics about those inquiries."
Agent Prendergast said police were yet to determine the nature of the electronic data seized in the Melbourne raids.
"We've seized computer equipment and computer storage media. It's too soon to really say what's on that and, again, that will be something that will come out in due course in court," Agent Prendergast said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:51 ||
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Where do you get"2 countries",Dan? I see no mention of another country being a target.The article mentions links,but not another country as a target.
One of the people arrested in anti-terrorism raids Tuesday in Australia is outspoken Muslim cleric Abu Bakr, also known as Abdul Nacer Benbrika.
Bakr has been the subject of intense scrutiny by Australian security and intelligence services for some time, most recently following public comments made in August in support of Al Qaeda mastermind Osama Bin Laden.
"Osama bin Laden, he is a great man," Bakr said then during an interview on Australian Broadcasting Corporation radio.
Australian media also have reported that some of the followers of Bakr's Melbourne-based fundamentalist Islamic group have attended terror training camps in Afghanistan.
According to media reports, Bakr had his passport removed in March by the Australian Security Intelligence Organization (ASIO) because "he was likely to prejudice the security of Australia or a foreign country" if he traveled overseas.
He also was the subject of two ASIO raids in June, ABC radio reported.
Bakr, 45, is a dual Algerian and Australian citizen who has lived in Melbourne's northern suburbs since 1989.
Melbourne is Australia's second-largest city and is the capital of the southern state of Victoria.
Among the ASIO concerns over Bakr's beliefs are his alleged support for the right of Australians to engage in militant jihad overseas and his adherence to Islamic law over Australian law.
In his ABC radio interview Bakr denied he was a threat, saying he was being targeted because of his strong Islamic views.
"I am not involved in anything here. I am teaching my brothers here the Koran and the Sunna, and I am trying my best to keep myself, my family, my kids and the Muslims close to this religion," he said.
But he also said he could not discourage those who wished to fight overseas "because Jihad is part of my religion," and to do so would betray those beliefs.
"I am telling you that my religion doesn't tolerate other religion. It doesn't tolerate. The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, has to be Islam," he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:49 ||
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Abu the fool "I am telling you that my religion doesn't tolerate other religion. It doesn't tolerate. The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, has to be Islam,"
Guess what Abie, you lose.
The seizure of chemicals in today's counter-terrorism raids highlights a dangerous lack of police information on people buying materials that could be used in an attack, a Government MP says.
Jason Wood, who was a counter-terrorism police officer before entering Federal Parliament last year, has called for national data collection of the "terrorist's chemical of choice", ammonium nitrate fertiliser, and other chemicals.
He says police have no way of knowing whether a terror suspect has bought explosives or bomb-making ingredients interstate, because each state police force has a separate database.
"Not one police force in the country would be able to tell you who has a licence to possess explosives," he told theage.com.au.
Mr Wood said he met privately with the Prime Minister last month to discuss expanding the Crimtrack database, which includes records of fingerprints and DNA. It is currently used to track sex offenders, and will soon include missing persons data.
"The Government recognises the need to co-ordinate all this. It's just working out how to do it," he said.
Mr Wood, who served as a senior sergeant with the Victoria Police counter-terrorism co-ordination unit, said al-Qaeda stockpiled legal chemicals for a thwarted attack planned to coincide with the September 11 attacks.
"They stockpiled 20 kilograms of chemicals, enough to kill 80,000 people.
"Terrorists use legitimate means to mount attacks, so they don't get detected through the planning phase.
"The precursor chemicals for terrorist attacks are often the same chemicals used to make illicit drugs".
"You have the crazy situation in Victoria in which anyone who has a licence to possess explosives is not on the database."
"A person purchases chemicals from NSW with a licence, they export them down to Victoria, the Victorian coppers look at this guy, they do a check, they wouldn't have a clue that he's been purchasing chemicals."
Mr Wood has called for Crimtrack to be expanded to register people who have licences to buy:
ammonium nitrate
explosives, and
high-consequence dangerous goods (chemicals used in the mining industry, or precursor chemicals like those used in the Tokyo sarin nerve gas attack in 1995).
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:48 ||
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He says police have no way of knowing whether a terror suspect has bought explosives or bomb-making ingredients interstate, because each state police force has a separate database.
A MUSLIM preacher arrested in today's anti-terror swoop was one of four men whose houses in Melbourne was raided by ASIO earlier this year.
Abdul Nacer Benbrika was one of nine men charged in Melbourne today with being a member of a terrorist organisation between July 2004 and November 2005.
Benbrika, 45, also has been charged with directing the activities of a terrorist organisation.
He was remanded in custody to reappear in the Melbourne Magistrates Court on January 31.
His home and the home of co-accused Fadal Sayadi, 25, were two of four raided in a joint operation conducted by ASIO and federal and Victoria Police in June.
Benbrika, also known as Abu Bakr, is a follower of the radical Melbourne-based cleric Sheik Mohammed Omran.
Benbrika is a dual Algerian and Australian citizen who arrived in Australia in 1989.
He was once declared an unlawful non-citizen after overstaying his visa but married a Lebanese-born Australian woman, with whom he now has six children.
Benbrika, who has previously denied any involvement in terrorist activities, rose to national prominence in August this year when he declared his support for al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden.
He told ABC Radio: "Osama bin Laden, he is a great man.
"Osama bin Laden was a great man before 11 September, which they said he did it, until now nobody knows who did it."
Mr Benbrika defended Muslims fighting against coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and said anyone who fought in the name of Allah would be forgiven their sins.
"According to my religion, jihad is a part of my religion and what you have to understand (is) that anyone who fights for the sake of Allah, when he dies, the first drop of blood that comes from him out all his sin will be forgiven," he said.
Last week criminal lawyer Rob Stary said he expected four men that were the targets of the June raids, including Benbrika, to be among the first people to be placed under federal control or preventive detention orders.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:46 ||
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#1
I will never take it for granted, when someone says I think "Osama bin Laden, he is a great man."
THE sleepy coastal Victorian town of Ocean Grove is just a stone's throw from the hamlet made famous by the hit television series SeaChange.
As such, it's one of the last places on earth you would expect to find terrorists training for an attack.
Not so, according to Prosecutor Richard Maidment QC, who today told the Melbourne Magistrate's Court that nine men arrested in suburban raids overnight formed a terrorist group to kill innocent men and women in Australia.
Mr Maidment said the Melbourne suspects had been planning terror crimes for more than 12 months, had undertaken military training, and were planning another training weekend in Ocean Grove.
But the court was told the Ocean Grove plan came unstuck because of a troublesome landlord.
Locals said the strip from Queenscliff to Barwon Heads, not far from the start of the famed Great Ocean Road, is more likely to field groups on a golf or bowls trip.
While a massive influx of holidaymakers doubles the population of the region to some 80,000 people at the height of summer, a group of men acting suspiciously would surely be noticed.
"It's a great place â warm, friendly, it's still one of your old school neighbourhoods," Ocean Grove Hotel general manager Ashley Kreig said.
"I mean 20 years ago or 10 years ago you used to be able to leave your front door open and the kids could play in the street â that's what Ocean Grove's still like today."
Besides, one of those arrested in Melbourne was Abu Bakr, a Muslim cleric who already has a public profile after attracting headlines in August for publicly stating his support for al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden.
"There's plenty of other places to go â if they wanted to blend in they'd be much better off going to a bigger place like Ballarat or even Geelong," Mr Kreig said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:38 ||
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#1
"I mean 20 years ago or 10 years ago you used to be able to leave your front door open and the kids could play in the street â that's what Ocean Grove's still like today."
Okay, okay, okay . . . here it is, hidden between the lines. The Islamists LOOK for what's best in western culture, which generally features safety, prosperity, family, stability, etc., because, from a para-military viewpoint it's WEAK. People on holiday are busy with their family and friends. They're relaxed. The perfect "bombing" spot. Like Bali. The most "bang for the buck" in terms of instilling terror--innocent people having fun are more traumatized than a barracks full of soldiers, and so the trickle-down effect among their families and friends is also greater. That's why I agree with a poster the other day about educating these guys in western universities. They also see that as a WEAKNESS and will exploit it to the hilt.
Time to get very, very non-ethnocentric about this. Easier to think of the Islamists as aliens from another planet--then there wouldn't be any "huh, they were gonna do what?" coming from the gullible earthlings.
France Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin decided to change his name to Dhimminique de Villepin [unconfirmed], to better reflect the nature of his plan:
- the creation of an anti-discrimination agency with special officials appointed to be in charge of certain regions, and making the fight against discrimination a national priority;
- 20,000 job contracts with local government bodies or associations paid a minimum wage would be reserved for those in the suburbs struggling to find work;
- an extra 100 million euros (120 million dollars) for associations that work in the neighbourhoods;
- 5,000 more teaching assistant posts in the 1,200 schools in districts designated as troublespots;
- the creation of 15 more special economic zones that provide tax breaks to companies that set up inside them as an incentive to boost local employment.
- social imbalances due to an insufficiently controlled flow of clandestine immigrationâ would be tackled.
(No word on whether similar handouts are planned for those who lost cars and shops at the hands of these poor disaffected youths.)
Word of the deaths spread quickly through Clichy-sous-Bois, a grim collection of housing projects an hour by train and bus from the center of Paris. Two teenage boys had been electrocuted while trying to hide near a transformer the night of Oct. 27. Rumor said they were running from police. Soon, dozens of angry young men came from the soulless high-rises looking for cops to fight and cars to burn on streets named, as it happens, after heroes of French culture: boulevard Emile Zola, allee Albert Camus, rue Picasso. Dead white men. "It's Baghdad here," the rioters shouted. Night after night last week, rage spread through the ghettos that ring Paris, then beyond to every corner of France. When a tear-gas canister exploded near a mosque in Clichy-sous-Bois on the fourth violent evening, a new cry went up. "Now this is war," said one of the vandals. Others cried "jihad."
It was neither, in fact, and Parisâthe capital known to touristsâwas not burning. But by using cell-phone text messages to coordinate their incendiary flash-mobs, rioters in the city's suburbs managed to burn thousands of cars, as well as buses, warehouses and stores. More than 200 people were arrested and there were many injuries, some serious, even if by last weekend no one had been killed. (The Los Angeles riots of 1992, by contrast, took the lives of more than 50 people.) What really shook the French government, and badly, was its inability to contain the metastasizing anger. Decades of French policies intended to force the integration of immigrants and their childrenâand children's childrenâinto French society had failed, and no Plan B was apparent. Fears also grew that in the age of terror, rage like this could swell the ranks of radical Islamists in the heart of Europe.
The first and most obvious casualty was the reputation of French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy. He's been angling for the presidency in 2007, posturing as France's most confident can-do politician. During the first days of violence, Sarkozy denounced the gangs burning cars as "scum" and told them in effect to bring it on. They did with a vengeance, and didn't stop. Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who is Sarkozy's main rival, reined him in publicly. Prodded by President Jacques Chirac, the two of them eventually tried to show a united front behind the slogan "Firmness and justice." That didn't work either.
The greatest challenge in the days to come is to keep the violent fringe from winning even wider sympathy. There are more than 12 million people of Muslim origin in Western Europe, roughly half of them in France. Many have adapted easily and well to European life. But constant tensions and deep resentments do remain, especially among those left behind in blighted communities that others managed to escape. In a report issued just days before the violence broke out, the French government counted 751 neighborhoods deemed "sensitive urban zones." Most of the people there have roots in Africa and Islam. Average unemployment is 21 percent, more than twice the national average, and rising. Among men under 25, the rate jumps to 36 percent. Disconnected from their past in the Muslim world and uncertain about their future in Europe, they've come to see themselves as citizens of nothing but "Neuf-trois," 93, the postal code for the outer edges of the Paris urban area.
The alienation and anger in these neighborhoods is not new. Riots broke out in the 1980s and 1990s, prompting new government programs supposed to bring hope to the projects. But as memories of the violence faded, so did funding. Outreach programs have been cut and neighborhood-based police have been pulled out. "We haven't paid attention for such a long time, there is a sense of abandonment," says French Sen. Dominique Voynet, who represents the main conflict zone.
In Clichy-sous-Bois, where it all began, calm was restored after the fourth night by young men from the local mosque. The government was thankful and hopes similar measures can work elsewhere. Some analysts are wary. Calling on mosques to restore order "validates the postulate that Islam is the answer to everything," says Dounia Bouzar, author of several books on French Muslims. Yet without the mosque, it would seem, the only option for the people along allee Albert Camus is what the author of "The Stranger" called "the tender indifference of the world."
Editor's Note: On Nov. 7, French police announced the first riot-related fatality. According to The Associated Press, a man died after being attacked while trying to extinguish a trash can fire outside his apartment building.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 09:12 ||
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Some "youths" also said on teevee they were in "Jerusalem"...
I guess all this glamourization of paleo intifada by the french msm, following the quai d'Orsay's cue, really paid off...
Official France truly played this pro-paleostinian, antizionist card (up to the point of the infamous and scandalous al durah forgery by France 2, see http://www.truthnow.org/), and only backpedaled this year, because it backfired into "french" antisemite violence (again, according to police intelligence, only 7% of theses attacks are made by the far right, the rest being done by "disaffected muslim youths").
Add the islamoleftists who tell the youth they are the "true indigenous people of France", while "ethnic french" are "colonizers" since France is a "post-colonial" colonial power on her own soil, and you've got a moral justification of the necessity of revolting : the "youths" playing the part of the "oppressed paleos", the police being the "zionists".
This is quite ironic, poetic justice in action, and would be very funny, if there wasn't thousand of innocent people losing their property, their security, and occasionally their life.
#2
It's still funny, or at least the basis for some timely humor. Let's not kid ourselves. France has slept with the devil because France thinks that the glory of France will prevail. They are nothing but a society of dreamers. Always were.
Judgement day approaches.
(This is frightening to see happening, and most definitely could happen here.)
I hope this wakes up most to try and get a handle on things before it does.
Posted by: Jan ||
11/08/2005 15:27 Comments ||
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#6
Dance with the devil and you get your toes stepped on. Appeasement has never worked.
From the site: "France:Behind The Riots + Famine In Africa" Hey don't foreget global warming, the sunami, and Hurricane Wilma. Maybe these young thugs didn't get enough tit*y as infants.
One can find all kinds of self-defeating, paralyzing excuses that prevent one from doing anything. We are in no less than a world war with the jihadists. The press, the left, and some of our politicians would deceive us into believing something else.
Police said Tuesday that 1,173 vehicles were burnt and 330 people arrested overnight as France experienced its 12th straight night of urban violence. Twelve police officers were lightly hurt, mainly by thrown projectiles. Some officers were the target for people firing buckshot, though none was hit. A dozen buildings were hit by arsonists.
The number of vehicles torched and arrests made were slightly lower than for the previous night, possibly signalling a tapering off of the unrest that has raged since October 27. Overnight Sunday, more than 1,400 automobiles were gutted by flames and 395 people were detained.
President Jacques Chirac was to hold a cabinet meeting
Tuesday which was to give regional authorities the power to impose curfews if necessary to restore public order.
Posted by: ed ||
11/08/2005 08:33 ||
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#1
When are these cowards going to call in the Army?
Is there anyone in France who remembers the movie "The Battle of Algiers?" Are there any Massus, Bigeards or Godards left in France? If not, we'd better be prepared to go in. We can't let the Muzzys get their hands on the French nukes.
Posted by: mac ||
11/08/2005 8:55 Comments ||
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#2
The French may have played their cards as well as possible given how clearly unprepared they were. Had they reacted more forcefully, some of the rioters may have been killed and real uncontrolled riots might have ensued. This episode seems to be burning itself out (pun intended). Now if the French take the time they have bought to build a stick to use next time, it will not have been a waste. But if they face the next round equally unprepared it will certainly hurt a lot more.
#3
Only 1,173 vehicles last night. Probably no more than $20-million in damages. I guess cars are being parked in safer places, or the Muslim youth are having to walk farther to get to them. On the other hand, a dozen buildings were hit. That count seems to be going up. Quagmire.
#6
Um, just how many cars are left to burn? I would assume that these "poor" suburbs have only a limited supply and after 12 days there can't be too many left, no?
When you use up all the local fuel, you must seek your fire wood farther from camp. When does Paris center start burning?
#7
The Belmont Club has a Car-B-Q graph of cars burned per night vs. time. Classic growth curve of organism populations until the resources start running out.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/08/2005 10:33 Comments ||
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#8
Rudy Guiliani should run for president of France. Or, better still, he should send them an estimate in case they wake up and realize how badly they need him.
#9
My Website's down due to a hack attempt being thwarted by my webhoster, so I'll have to comment at the 'burg until I figure out what to do next.
Let's keep several things in mind while reading about France's current troubles:
1. So far, the only stuff getting torched is local to the cites housing these scum: they're burning and crapping in their own nest.
2. Any REAL frenchmen threatened are the "little folk". Neither the EU nor French government officials, for all their socialist 'liberte egalite fraternite' bullshit, really gives a damn about the little folk. They're called 'conservative' because they're only center to center left and not far left. As far as they are concerned, there's no need for urgency because THEIR cars are not being torched and THEIR apartments are not being burned down. It's 'me first', 'me last', and 'me always'.
3. Where's the army? Actually, I believe they're tied up securing the nukes and nuclear spent fuel facilities if they're not engaged outside of the country. The French elite will make sure these yahoos are NOT getting anywhere NEAR those: a fire in a cite many miles away from their house is one thing, especially if they can order their fire department to go all out to put it out before it gets too close, but a nuke can't be contained by anything and doesn't give a shit about what makes the French elite so elite. Don't expect the French version of the ACLU to shed any tears for rioters shot dead attacking a nuclear bunker for atomic weapons with intent to vaporize their precious asses.
French leadership will get tough, in true socialist fashion, only when THEIR ASSES are on the line, not the little people's.
#10
Rooters: The decree was due to go into force at midnight (11:00 p.m. British time). It allows emergency measures to be in force for 12 days and can restrict the movement of people and vehicles in areas where local government officials known as prefects declare a curfew.
Riots in France's poor city suburbs appeared to be spiralling out of control on Monday after the worst night of violence to date, in which more than 30 police were injured and 1 400 cars burnt across the country.
"The shockwave has spread from Paris to the provinces," said Michel Gaudin, director-general of the national police.
For an 11th night in a row youths predominantly from France's large Arab-Muslim minority rampaged through their out-of-town neighbourhoods, setting fire to vehicles, businesses and public buildings and attacking police with stones and other projectiles.
Police figures showed that 1 408 vehicles were destroyed overnight - more than previous record of 1 300 on Saturday - and 395 people arrested. Most of the cars - nearly 1 000 - were targeted in towns and cities outside Paris, reflecting the way the violence has spread from its original flashpoint.
In addition 36 policemen were injured overnight - the worst figure to date - amid signs that rioters were deliberately seeking out clashes with the security forces.
At Grigny in the southern Paris suburbs two police officers were hospitalised after being hit by gun-shot in what colleagues said was an ambush set by a gang of youths.
"Their aim is to get us. It is to kill policemen," an officer who witnessed the incident told interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy who visited their headquarters overnight.
The violence - with was sparked on October 27 by the accidental deaths of two teenagers in an electrical sub-station in a northern Paris suburb - has fanned across the country in a nightly ritual of copycat attacks by disaffected youths complaining of economic misery and social discrimination.
Few regions of the country have been spared, with riots on Sunday night in the southern towns of Toulouse, Toulon and Draguignan, Strasbourg in the east and Nantes in the west. Tourist centres such as the Loire valley town of Blois and Quimper in Brittany were also hit.
Even the small village of Villedieu-du-Temple, 12km from the southern town of Montauban, saw six postal vehicles destroyed.
Among the targets of the rioters were churches, nursery and primary schools, town-halls and police stations as well as warehouses, car dealerships and a film-studio at Asnieres outside Paris. In the Normandy city of Rouen rioters used a car as a battering ram against a police station.
Overall more than 5000 cars have been burned and more than 1 000 people arrested since the beginning of the trouble, which is the worst to hit France since the May student uprising in 1968.
President Jacques Chirac intervened personally for the first time since the start of the unrest, summoning an inner cabinet meeting on Sunday evening and afterwards declaring that "the absolute priority is the re-establishment of security and public order".
A leading Muslim group - the Union of Islamic Organisations in France (UOIF) - issued a fatwa or formal instruction urging Muslims not to take part in acts of violence.
The group - which espouses a radical interpretation of Islam close to the Egypt-based Muslim Brotherhood - is the largest component of the French Council for the Muslim Religion (CFCM), the official representative body for Islam in France which was set up by Sarkozy two years ago.
Australia and Japan on Monday joined Britain, Canada, Russia and the United States in issuing public advisories that recommended that tourists to France exercise caution because of the violence.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:41 ||
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#1
Well Duh! Has the French Govt given them any compelling reason to stop?
#2
Dunno about Euros. Cops have to take molotov-coctail bombs and giant bolders, while they cower behind glass shields and tread lightly. The terror won't end until an effective response is allowed. And the most dedicated cops will take early retirement.
I recall a certain conversation that I had with a Greek soldier in 1974. I wonder what the frog colonels are thinking...
Posted by: Fde Fda ||
11/08/2005 3:16 Comments ||
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#3
Yesterday's news, today.
Posted by: Bobby ||
11/08/2005 5:33 Comments ||
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#4
Fde,
You may well have a point there. I'm sure there are a few French soldiers who remember that they actually have a proud military heritage and who are absolutely disgusted with the craven behavior of the politicians. Had anyone else but DeGaulle been President in 1960 there would almost certainly have been a military coup. I'm not at all current with the state of French military thinking but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a fair number of officers thinking it's long past time for a cleaning of the Augean stables that are France's political classes. If that happens, look for lots of boats full of Muzzy arsonist parents headed back to the Maghreb--and lots of their dead offspring buried anonymously in mass graves. Multiculti in Europe is coming to a screeching halt and about to slam head-on into reverse.
Posted by: mac ||
11/08/2005 6:21 Comments ||
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#5
Can't see it happening,Mac.The only official I've seen so far calling for the use of the military is the head of the police union.
While mayors of riot-hit towns welcomed the tougher line, some asked what another measure announced by Villepin - extended powers for them - would actually mean in practice.
"Every time they announce more powers for mayors, they cut the funds," complained Jean-Christophe Lagarde, mayor of the north-eastern Paris suburb of Drancy.
Elisabeth Guigou, a Socialist deputy from the north-eastern Paris suburbs, said that invoking a curfew law passed during the Algerian war was "not the best reference" for fighting unrest among youths mostly of North African Arab and African origin.
The left-wing daily Liberation recalled Jacques Chirac was elected president in 1995 pledging to repair France's "social fracture" and his government was now imposing curfews. "Chirac's reign is a tragic farce," it wrote in an editorial.
The Interior Ministry said 814 vehicles had been torched by early Tuesday morning, compared to 1,408 for the whole previous night. It said it would give full figures later on Tuesday.
The number of injured police officers dropped from 36 on Sunday night to four overnight. Some 143 rioters were detained.
Villepin said 1,500 police and gendarmes would be brought in to back up the 8,000 officers already deployed in areas hit by unrest. He also promised to accelerate urban renewal programmes.
Government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope said: "The absolute priority is to show everyone that public authority must be re-established."
But Villepin dismissed growing calls for army intervention, saying: "We have not reached that point."
The opposition Socialists said Villepin had not done enough to give hope to those people in areas hit by the unrest, which has involved poor whites as well as French-born citizens of Arab or African origin complaining of racism and unemployment.
"Beyond the necessary calls for order, what was missing in the prime minister's address was a social dimension, a message and precise commitments towards the people of these areas in difficulty," the Socialist Party said in a statement.
While last nigh was the first not worse than the previous, at least in Paris, it appears the French have admitted defeat and are prepared to reward the perpetrators newly annointed victims with lots of government goodies. I also smell a preferred status coming.
The word muslim in English means surrender. France is almost fully muslim.
#7
How about busting some fucking heads? That usually puts a stop to shit like that fairly quick. You can't stop a town full of rioters by being a spineless pussy. If force and violence is all they can understand, then learn to speak their language.
I think the Foreign Legion is fluent in that particular dialect
#10
The French government is beyond foolish. They'll beget only more headaches for the effort. If they are allowed to continue along the line taken they will be well on the way to dismantling the France they profess to defend. It's the average Frenchman who will suffer the ultimate burden of this idiocy.
#12
I'm starting to think that the longer this goes on, the more and more likely it will restart (assuming it is stopped in the first place at some point) on each and every little "provocation" in the future. Now that's the rioters have had fun and I'm sure they feel in control and can do anything they like, anything less than an absolute crackdown will be seen by them as a green light to fire this back up any time they want in the future.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
11/08/2005 9:45 Comments ||
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#13
The gvt is simply hoping this will dry out by itself (and this will, too), the police apparently has orders not to be "provocative" so there isn't any casualty among the rioters that would really "inflame" them.
In the meantime, my impression of the media and official response really is "give them more money" (first 5 billions euros, then 25 billions in the Borloo plan)... after all, liek the socialists said, they are "fragiel populations" :
- enforce affirmative action (like the possibility of joining the administration without passing an exam... not only is the administration in france bloated beyond comprehension, but this is also an insult to average, non car-burning youths)
- renewing the subventions to non-profit orgs ( France already gives about 800 millions euros to non profits orgs a year IIRC?, a large majority of theses being trotskyst or socialist fronts, btw)
- tripling the scholarships in theses areas (again, where's the justice for non car-burning youths?)
Etc, etc... This "social treatment" has been ongoing for 30 years, and it is estimated about 40 billions euros were invested in theses areas, notably building infrastructures which are repeatedly burned to the ground.
This has failed before, this will fail again, this doesn't adress the true problems :
- an arabo/african-muslim identity in secession from the mainstream french identity,
- an unbridled, uncontrolled settlement immigration (300-500 000 a year not counting children, almost as many as the USA IIRC, a country 5x more populous, with only 5% of theses coming to work, official figure, while the others come to enjoy benefit).
- a socialist/statist/corporatist economical and social model that produces low social mobility, high unemployement and low growth, and a population that gets poorer by the year.
- the failure of the rule of law (crime is rampant, justice is way too laxist, adminsitrations don't enforce their rules when it comes ot "sensitive" populations, example the polygamous muslim families, theorically forbidden, but who nonetheless earns thousands of euros of family benefits each month),... all this while legal enforcement is castrated by the power, and only gets support when it comes to cracking down on taxpayers.
- a general breakdown of society, values,...
I repeat myself, but... France :
*Statist since the 1945 pact between gaullist and communists (who to this day own public sector and education).
*Progressive since the 60's.
*Technocratic since 1974 (when the oligarchy seized power and tweaked democracy to its needs).
*Immigrationnsit since the 1976 law on migrant family reunion, which turned a work immigration into a settlement immigration (this was of course the brainchild of, you guessed it, none other than Jacques Shiraq, the man who has personified french politics for the last 30 years).
*Socialist since 1981 (in one form or another, since the "conservatives" goversn exactly like the socialists... the whole french political landscape is incredibly shifted to the left anyway, "conservative" Shiraq is to the left of Blair or Schroëder).
*Globalist since 1993.
*Dhimmi since 2002.
#15
Fear not! I hear that Chirac has been in meetings almost every day since the riots began. How long does it take to realize that they need to kick ass and take names?
The statistical bit is quite credible, there are reports 35% of births in France are from non-european parents.
The "muslim car" thingie is true too (straight form people who live or lived in big cities, where is not a bad idea to let a hand of fatima hang from the rearview mirror, it really is supposed to avoid many problems even in nomral times), and the gangsta rap imagery ("France is a whore, let's f*ck her", "french men are unmanly and homosexuals", "french wimmin are sl*ts who loves arabs and blacks") is spot on... of course, that kind of music is protected by the society (justice doens't follow people who sue them for antiwhite racism, big music retailers such as the trotskyt-founded Fnac offer them a large exposure,...).
"Statistiques inquietantes, au vu des emeutes de ces derniers jours ... Le New York Sun aujourd'hui ( faut une inscription ) :
It is one thing to know in theory that France has undergone major ethnic changes over the past 30 years and another thing altogether to confront a mass ethnic insurgency. The figures are inescapable. There are about 60 million inhabitants in continental France, plus 2 million citizens in the overseas territories (essentially the French West Indies and La Reunion island in the Indian Ocean). About 20 million, most of them white and Christian, are over 50
Out of the remaining 40 million or so, 10 million or so belong to the ethnic minorities: Muslim North Africans, Muslim Turks or Near Easterners, Muslim Black Africans, Christian West Indian, African or Reunionese blacks. When one regards to the youngest age brackets, the proportion is even larger. It is estimated that 35% of all French inhabitants under 20, and 50% of all inhabitants in the major urban centers, belong to the ethnic minorities. Islam alone may claim respectively 30% and 45%. Since war is essentially the business of youths, the combatant ratio in any ethnic war may thus be one to one.
Which brings us to a second question: How ethnic is the present violence in France? Liberal commentators, both in France and abroad, tend to say that poverty and unemployment, rather than race or religion, are the driving force behind the riots. [Prime Minister Dominique de]Villepin himself tends to share this view, at least in part. He said yesterday on TV that he is earmarking enormous credits for housing rehabilitation, education, and state-supported jobs in the areas where the unrest has developed. But the fact remains that only ethnic youths are rioting, that most of them explicitly pledge allegiance to Islam and such Muslim heroes as Osama bin Laden, that the Islamic motto â Allahu Akbar ["God is great"] â is usually their war cry, and that they submit only to archconservative or radical
imams.
The fact also remains, according to many witnesses, that the rioters torch only "white" cars, meaning white owned cars, and spare "Islamic" or "black" ones. One way to discriminate between them is to look for ethnic signs like a sticker with Koranic verses or a picture of the Kaaba in Mekka or a stylized map of Africa. Further evidence of the animating influence in the riots lies with the French rap music to which the perpetrators listen. Such music obsessively describes White France as a sexual prey."
#19
I wonder if the Basque people are paying attention. In the meantime, my impression of the media and official response really is "give them more money" (first 5 billions euros, then 25 billions in the Borloo plan)... after all, liek the socialists said, they are "fragiel populations" :
#21
Wanna bet after the Police Union is ignored and the French police find themselves on the crap end of the stick on this one that enlistment goes down. That reenlistment drops. That France is in a far worse position next go around
#22
"Further evidence of the animating influence in the riots lies with the French rap music to which the perpetrators listen. Such music obsessively describes White France as a sexual prey.""
A kind of music, which while out of the mainstream of French culture, is not middle eastern culture either. Its the culture of the Cites, modeled after the cynical, nihilist culture of American "ghettos". France has a cultural problem, buts it not necessarily the one we've been talking about here.
#23
"But the fact remains that only ethnic youths are rioting"
Including non-muslim african youth.
"that most of them explicitly pledge allegiance to Islam and such Muslim heroes as Osama bin Laden"
A good way to shock the locals, like wearing a Malcolm X shirt here.
"that the Islamic motto â Allahu Akbar ["God is great"] â is usually their war cry"
Ive heard mixed reports on this - mainly that they used it some imam was telling them to behave. I havent heard they really use any war crys - they flash mob, torch, and run.
"and that they submit only to archconservative or radical imams. "
Any evidence that they submit to ANY imams? Or any adults, for that matter?
#24
The U.S. main stream media has yet to report that muslims are doing the rioting. They seem to be ignoring the obvious for whatever collective reason(s) they have.
The french have a few good military units. The biggest problem is the screwy leadership in the government. I think the french have the capability to crack down. If they don't have the capability to respond, they have a lot of trouble on their hands. This means that basically, their country has been taken over and hamstrung by a minority that has reached a critical mass (read thugs).
#25
With those stats, the jews in France don't stand a chance. Personally, I'd get out now. In another 20 years . . . think about it.
These young "men" do not have a moral base, have no respect for authority, etc. Jobs, better housing, won't calm this down. It's a failure in human cultural/religious structuring from the ground up. It will only get worse.
This is a media myth - equating non-Arab Africans with non-muslim. AFAIK Non-arab African immigrants are overwhelmingly muslim. Maybe A5089 could confirm.
#27
I'm no expert, in fact I know nothing on nothing, which explain why I'm fat and (rightly) unloved, but IIRC about 80%+ of the african immigration to France is muslim.
France will impose curfews under a state-of-emergency law and call up police reservists to stop rioting that has spread out of Paris' suburbs and into nearly 300 cities and towns across the country, the prime minister said Monday, calling a return to order "our No. 1 responsibility."
And it hasn't even taken two weeks to realize that...
The tough new measures came as France's worst civil unrest in decades entered a 12th night, with rioters in the southern city of Toulouse setting fire to a bus after sundown after ordering passengers off, and elsewhere pelting police with gasoline bombs and rocks and torching a nursery school. Outside the capital in Sevran, a junior high school was set ablaze, while in another Paris suburb, Vitry-sur-Seine, youths threw gasoline bombs at a hospital, police said.
"We don't need no edu-cay-shun... No hospital treatment, either."
Asked on TF1 television whether the army should be brought in, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepinblanched and said, "We are not at that point."
"Non, non! Certainment not!"
But "at each step, we will take the necessary measures to re-establish order very quickly throughout France," he said. "That is our prime duty: ensuring everyone's protection."
"However, we are being entirely reactive. We are being careful not to assess the situation, lest we see something that might frighten us."
The recourse to curfews followed the worst overnight violence so far, and foreign governments warned their citizens to be careful in France.
"Think about Kosovo. It's safer."
Apparent copycat attacks took place outside France, with five cars torched outside the main train station in Brussels. German police were investigating the burning of five cars in Berlin.
"Fritz, I süspect it mäy be disäffected yoots!"
National police spokesman Patrick Hamon said there was a "considerable decrease" in the number of incidents overnight into Tuesday in the Paris region.
"We think they might be running out of gasoline. Some of the more recent Molotov cocktails were charged with diesel fuel, and we think one was cheap perfume!"
Nationwide vandals burned 814 cars overnight compared to 1,400 vehicles a night earlier, according to national police figures. A total of 143 people were arrested down from 395 the night before.
"Into le paddy wagon avec vous!"
The mayhem is forcing France to confront anger building for decades in neglected suburbs and among the French-born children of Arab and black African immigrants. President Jacques Chirac, in private comments more conciliatory than his warnings Sunday that rioters would be caught and punished, acknowledged in a meeting Monday with Latvian President Vaira Vike-Freiberga that France has not integrated immigrant youths, she said. Chirac deplored the "ghettoization of youths of African or North African origin" and recognized "the incapacity of French society to fully accept them," said Vike-Freiberga.
"Really, if they were invited into the best homes and treated like civilized folk, I'm sure they'd be just like you and me! Except for the turbans, of course."
France "has not done everything possible for these youths, supported them so they feel understood, heard and respected," Chirac added, noting that unemployment runs as high as 40 percent in some suburbs, four times the national rate, according to Vike-Freiberga.
"So really, you see, it's our own fault they're incapable of adhering to any social norms. Far from shipping their sorry derrieres back where they came from, we must do all we can to make life here easier for them. Then I'm sure they won't kill us all in our beds."
In violence Monday, vandals burned churches, schools and businesses, and injured 36 police officers in clashes around the country, setting a new high for arson and violence, said France's national police chief, Michel Gaudin. "This spread, with a sort of shock wave spreading across the country, shows up in the number of towns affected," Gaudin said.
"And it's our fault! It's all our fault," he added, beating his breast and weeping tears of frustration.
In terms of material destruction, the unrest is France's worst since World War II — and never has rioting struck so many different French cities simultaneously, said security expert Sebastian Roche, a director of research at the state-funded National Center for Scientific Research. Villepin said curfews will be imposed under a 1955 law that allows the declaring of a state of emergency in parts or all of France. The law was passed to curb unrest in Algeria during the war that led to its independence.
And now, coincidentally, will be applied largely to Algerians. No doubt someone wearing a turtleneck will write a long, introspective piece on the subject for publication in Paris Match.
He said 1,500 reservists were being called up to reinforce the 8,000 police and gendarmes already deployed. The Cabinet will meet Tuesday to authorize curfews "wherever it is necessary," he said. "The multiplying acts of destruction, the destruction of schools and sports centers, thousands of cars set on fire, all of this is unacceptable and inexcusable. To all in France who are watching me, who are disturbed by this, who are shocked, who want to see a return to normalcy, a return to security, the state's response — I say it tonight forcefully — will be firm and just."
I'll bet there are lots of people who believe that. Thousands of latter-day Madame Lafarges are no doubt getting out their knitting needles in anticipation of the tumbrels rolling.
Villepin said "organized criminal networks" are backing the violence and youths taking part are treating it as a "game," trying to outdo each other. He did not rule out the possibility that radical Islamists are involved, saying: "That element must not be neglected." Local government officials will be able to impose curfews "if they think it will be useful to permit a return to calm and ensure the protection of residents. That is our No. 1 responsibility," the prime minister said.
I'd suggest a nice massacre, myself. You've still got them outnumbered, you know...
A Socialist opposition leader, Francois Hollande, said his party would closely watch to make sure the curfew law is applied properly. "This law cannot be applied everywhere, and it cannot be long-lasting," Hollande said. He said Villepin should have put more emphasis on improving life in tough neighborhoods and said the premier's proposals were vague.
Of course they're vague. The man himself is so vague he's fuzzy around the edges. But if he made a definite statement the Champions of the Downtrodden™ like M. Hollande would be down on him like flies in an outhouse.
Villepin said he wanted to speed up a $35.5 billion urban redevelopment plan, triple the number of merit scholarships for talented students and offer jobs, training or internships to disadvantaged young people. "We must offer them hope and a future," he said.
Oh, good idea! Throwing money at problems always works...
But nearly 600 people were in custody Monday night, and fast-track trials were being used to punish rioters.
"Jean-Pierre, that is not a tumbrel! That is a Citroen!"
France's biggest Muslim fundamentalist organization, the Union for Islamic Organizations of France, issued a religious decree against the violence. It prohibited all those "who seek divine grace from taking part in any action that blindly strikes private or public property or can harm others."
That should do it. The disadvantaged yoots are bound to obey the dictates of the caliphate...
Posted by: Fred ||
11/08/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Just make sure....
If anything burns in an area...
The mosques in that area burn too.
#3
"Frankenfada": that's a gem. The best I could do was: frogenfada.
Posted by: Fde Fda ||
11/08/2005 3:19 Comments ||
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#4
The Frenchies have gotta do something - its NOT enough for the main Govt. anymore to simply promise more jobs, benefits and "integration" in the name of "Reform" and espec Socialism. Any Muslim ambitions for "Caliphate" t'aint gonna stop at Paris or the old Maginot Line border. The irony here is that the Euros as a class by these riots now have excellent opportunity to redo the EU but in the image of the USA. THE RIOTS > WESTERN DEMO SOCIALISM AS ORGANZ PUBLIC MODELS CAN'T CUT IT ANYMORE, FOR ANYTHING!?
I must admit sympathy for the politically immobilized French police. This auto-terror incidence will force a political shift to the right, hopefully not to the National Front anti-Semites. There is not much choice in the Gallic surrender entity.
http://www.vie-publique.fr/sites_references/partis-politiques.html
Posted by: Fde Fda ||
11/08/2005 4:39 Comments ||
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#6
Frogs = fools
Clue to frog government: You better step all over these turds now, send anyone w/out citizenship backhome now, or the Louvre will end up just Buddhist statues at Bamian, Afghanistan. When the caliphate established Sharia law in France they will "Party Like It's 1789." in Paris.
1) Let the adorable little scamps burn their 'hoods
2) Give them scholarships once they get bored and stop doing it.
3) Be sure you don't hurt their feelings by assigning blame for their own actions.
Y'know, I am a liberal arts graduate from a state school, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me somehow.
#10
The mayhem is forcing France to confront anger building for decades in neglected suburbs and among the French-born children of Arab and black African immigrants. President Jacques Chirac, in private comments more conciliatory than his warnings Sunday that rioters would be caught and punished, acknowledged in a meeting Monday with Latvian President Vaira Vike-Freiberga that France has not integrated immigrant youths, she said. Chirac deplored the "ghettoization of youths of African or North African origin" and recognized "the incapacity of French society to fully accept them," said Vike-Freiberga.
France "has not done everything possible for these youths, supported them so they feel understood, heard and respected," Chirac added, noting that unemployment runs as high as 40 percent in some suburbs, four times the national rate, according to Vike-Freiberga.
The French socialist model cannot create real jobs for anybody, which leaves Chirac and the socialists pratting about solutions they cannot provide.
I suspect we'll be seeing a fresh influx of Europeans into our own country.
Mr de Villepin stressed the government's first priority was to restore calm and stop the nightly violence in the cities and suburbs. He announced:
Continuing large-scale police deployments, including 1,500 extra reserve officers, in troubled areas
Swift and effective justice for all law-breakers
A judicial inquiry into the deaths of two teenagers in Clichy-sous-Bois, Paris, which sparked the riots
New powers for the mayors of French cities and municipalities, to impose curfews and maintain order
A restoration of spending programmes (recently cut back) on community associations of all kinds, to promote social solidarity
Community leaders from France's main ethnic minorities have demanded new laws to end discrimination in jobs and housing, and an end to what they say is police harassment. They resent police searches for "sans-papiers" - illegal immigrants - and the constant threat of deportation hanging over them. They also want the right to vote, even for those without French citizenship. In response, Mr de Villepin proposed:
A tripling of state scholarships in poor areas, and increased spending on training schemes for under-achieving young people. Some 150,000 children, mainly from immigrant families, are leaving school without any qualifications
A lowering to 14 of the age when children wanting to quit school can begin an apprenticeship; this idea was at once criticised by some teachers' leaders
More company job training schemes in problem areas. Immigrants with a college degree complain they rarely even get job interviews because of blatant discrimination
An urban renewal programme, re-building districts damaged by the riots and building more humane living environments
More, unspecified, sanctions to counter social discrimination of all kinds
The prime minister skirted round the highly sensitive issue of Islam, the religion of the great majority of the immigrants and their offspring. Many French Muslims demand more public recognition by the state, and resent the law which bans the wearing of Muslim headscarves. Mr de Villepin said only that in France all faiths were respected. He acknowledged public concerns about the growth of radical Islamic thinking, but played down the urgency of the issue.
With all the commentary on the intifada in France, one thing that has been lost, until Dominique's statement today, is this: no longer can the French lord their superior social welfare system over us peon Americans. The French statist social welfare model provided unemployment compensation, job training, education, health care, retirement pension, maternity leave, paternity leave, go-fishing leave, and so on, and all you had to do was put up with stifling taxes and a loss of economic mobility. That was the deal and the French were proud of it, particularly when compared to the dog-eat-dog Americans.
And the French also considered their social model to be superior to ours in terms of race: everyone was a Frenchman, and the French didn't even keep racial statistics, because they didn't need to. They didn't have racial tension (don't mind those Algerians across the street), they didn't have concentrated poverty like Gary and New Orleans, and they for darned sure didn't have race riots like Watts and Detroit.
And now it's been demonstrated to be a lie. A whole sub-population of young people are SOL with no future prospects, and they're mad as hell. They were never included in the social welfare model, and they've been discriminated against every day. The fact that most of these people are Muslim and Arab or African is a part of it, but not all of it. Even more 'moderate' Arabs, Berbers, Africans, etc shoved into these dreadful suburbs are mad as hell. The French coppers brutalize them on a regular basis. The French employers refuse to consider them. The French government shoves them into high-rise filing cabinets and then slam the doors shut. And all the while they hear pious crap about how wonderful life is in France, crap that they know is a lie from start to finish.
So it's no surprise that there are riots on top of despair and casual violence. Now throw in some trecherous Muslim leaders, budding Islamist terrorists, organized gangs, drug-dealers, gun runners, and ineffecutal community 'leaders', and you have suburbs full of angry, don't-give-a-shit people. Toss in police that are alternately brutal and cowardly, politicans that are corrupt and gutless, and a French public that hates the Arabs in a visceral way, and you have a disaster in the making.
I have no doubt the French will -- eventually -- get things under control. For now. But they don't have the ability we've had to be critical of themselves and fix their problems. We had race riots. We figured out why and we're doing better (hard to tell sometimes).
We're capable of addressing our problems. The French aren't. It shows.
#1
Train the yoots for jobs that don't exist, offload the cost onto private industry, build a shiny new bureaucracy to oversee it all, and rebuild the yoots own neighborhoods that they're torching now. Something about snowballs and warm climates comes immediately to mind.
#3
That pic of Dom-with-the-sash reminded me that he (and the rest of France's leadership) was a child of '68. To them the current riots are just an updated version and therefore to be tolerated (if not cheered). The wolf will eat them last.
#5
You know, it would be a great thing for the French public that "hates Arabs in a visceral way" to demonstrate that by expelling the lot of them back to countries of origin. That NEEDS to happen someplace in Europe so that the Muzzies get the message, loud and clear, that their violent refusal to assimilate will not be tolerated one moment longer. Bad as that sounds, the alternative (Final Solution, anyone?) stands to be MUCH worse. These people need a real club to the head/kick to the nuts to see the light and if it doesn't come soon, the delusion of grandeur they're living under may well cause them to do something that ends up having most of them incinerated by nuclear weapons.
Posted by: mac ||
11/08/2005 9:41 Comments ||
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So it is racism who has stirred the poooooor "jeunes". Pleeeeeeeease.
The truth is that in French society racism is something very politically uncorrect and the truth is that the rise of the Front National followed and not preceeded the massive rise in crime who accompanied immigration.
The truth is also that there is a very good reason for the police "harrassing" the people who look North-African and/or wear some type of clothing: the fact that many North-Africans or African Blacks are illegal immigrants (enough with the idiotic "undocumented immigrants" BS), the high rate of crime beteween them (police is supposee to arrest criminals isn't it?) or the fact they usually travel without paying when they board the public transportation system.
If they are just poor discriminated victims of racism then explain why the Chinese thrive (and have coped the market for reselling computer parts), why the Vietnamese aren't harrassed, why the Blacks in teh Evangelist school 1 mile from where I live look reasonably prosperous, happy (and well dressed, no gangsta dressing).
And don't try to make me cry about the rate of unemployment. Thet fact is most of them don't get jobs becauise they are basically unemployable. I will pass upon the problems in a company who hires an employee who is a half-serious muslim (1) ie a man who believes he has no orders to receive from a woman or even from a male kaffir (cf the many excerpts in Koran, Haddiths and Shariah telling that infidels should not be in position of giving orders to Muslims). The fact is that in 4eme (in US terms must be 7th or 8th frade) most of them are still unable to handle so simple notions as proportionality (1), that they show disrespect for professors (including sexual propositions to female professors) or that they flatly refuse to study "anti-islamic" lessons like the building of cathedrals or the Holocaust. There is a class of north-african kids who dont do bad at school: the girls. But for the boys, they are immersed in a spoiled brat mentality (3) and do nothing at school. So any wonders if later they can get no job better than floor cleaner? But someone raised as a spoiled brat will be quick to accuse racism for him not getting the superpaying job or more exactly the superpaying position (no work required)
(1) ie I have a rectangle of 6x4 and a second one who is similar but lenght is 12 instead of 6. Calculate the width. An enormous proportion of those kids are unable to solve the problem.
(2) Of the mainstream variety. I am not referring to Ahmedists, Allawites or Ismaelists.
(3) A woman of Muslim extraction tells in her book how boys are allowed to push their daughters out of their chairs even when they are much older. The boy is king at home. Then he goes to into a world where he isn't.
#13
They didn't have racial tension (don't mind those Algerians across the street), they didn't have concentrated poverty like Gary and New Orleans, and they for darned sure didn't have race riots like Watts and Detroit.
They also didnt have Slavery as a founding institution of their national identity.
Posted by: bk ||
11/08/2005 11:34 Comments ||
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#14
BK... all of that, .....and yet they still want to come here by the millions. Amazing isn't it?
#16
They resent police searches for "sans-papiers" - illegal immigrants - and the constant threat of deportation hanging over them.
I agree that worrying about the constant threat of deportation is a terrible thing. Best to get it over with quickly and not worry anymore.
Seriously though, if someone is trying to kill me I don't really care if he has a legitimate beef or not--I will try to stop him by any means necessary. Is that a hard concept for deVillepin?
Posted by: James ||
11/08/2005 14:46 Comments ||
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#17
Sea, I'll take his word for it. I'm not getting close enough to check.
#18
RJ's 3 point plan.
(1) Send in the military and crush these areas. Go house to house to mosque and arrest anyone who cannot prove they are French, and who has had any involvement in the riots.
(2) Leave the areas in ruins, as occupied territories, for months without promises of rebuilding to let the inhabitants know what they have caused.
(3) Offer to help anyone emigrate out of France who so desires.
JFM's post is VERY informational and spot-on. A must read. It's impossible to understand what's really going on (i.e., Shock's stuff is to be taken with a grain of salt) without understanding the inner workings of the families/values they grow up with. The Moslem men ARE whiny brats who are "kings" at home from an early age, and when they come of age are only able to show what useless specimens of immaturity they truly are. Jobs won't help. They don't want to WORK. And as JFM says they especially don't want to work for infidels. I would suggest that Turkey and Pakistan import them all and use them to fix up after the earthquakes.
#20
A little bit of hard labor under the supervision of a Moslem foreman with a gun might go a long way.
BTW, the hardcore Islamists LOVE guys like de Villepin, who are so entrenched in their own "take" on the world, that it's inconceivable to him that the Muzzies don't care about what he cares about.
Culture must be defended against the forces that seek it's destruction. In other words, the ability to enjoy one's wine and cheese depends on one's commitment to protect the enjoyment of one's wine and cheese. These things aren't "givens," they're earned.
Italian state TV reported this morning that the US used chemical weapons-- white phosphorus, which melts human flesh to the bones "I saw the burned bodies of women and children. The phosphorous explodes and forms a plume. Whoever is within a 150 metre radius has no hope," one former US GI, Jimmy Massey reports.
Actual video clips (click image to fill screen) from the Italian Documentary, 'Fallujah - the hidden massacre' show charred remains of female victims and an interview with a former US GI.
Just one GI "witness", whose lies were exposed the other day. I wondered why the MSM hadn't jumped on this "documentary". Now it's clear, they know he's a phoney
The Italian Documentary reported, on Tuesday, November 8th, that white phosphorous is supposed to be used "to illuminate enemy emplacements" purposes, to light up the sky. This documentary claims the shells were fired indiscriminately and the documentary claims to show images of Americans strafing the city with phosphorus.
Mohamad Tareq, a biologist who was in Fallujah, reported in the film, "A rain of fire fell on the city, the people struck by this multicolored substance started to burn. We found people dead with strange wounds, the bodies burned but the clothes intact."
The documentary reports that Manifesto reporter Giulana Sgrena said, "I gathered accounts of the use of phosphorus and napalm from a few Fallujah refugees whom I met before being kidnapped," who was kidnapped in Fallujah last February, in a recorded interview. "I wanted to get the story out, but my kidnappers would not permit it."
Yeah, right.
The suppression of this story gets darker when one considers that Sgrena was wounded by American troops at the same time that Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari was killed by the US troops. The Italian people and government have opposed the war in Iraq.
So, we tried to kill her to suppress the story?
The film also reveals the use of a new kind of Napalm, called MK77, reporting that "The use of these incendiary substances on civilians is prohibited from the conventions of the UN since 1980."
In the US, Massey, author of a book published in France, Kill, Kill, Kill is being Swift-boated by "fellow GIs and the mainstream media are reporting that he has never actually witnessed what he's reported.
The mainstream media being in George Bush's pocket, don't ya know
The US military has denied the accusations as "disinformation.
Snicker, poor Italian tv, they didn't count on their star witness being proven as a lying fraud just before the video was shown.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 11:51 ||
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former US GI, Jimmy Massey
WTF? I thought this shitstain claimed to be a Marine.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/08/2005 12:25 Comments ||
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#2
âswiftboatedâ must mean that someone is telling the truth and it aint the author. If one of your comrades calls you a liar that is one thing, but if all or most of them cal you a liar, then maybe you arenât being truthful. Make no mistake it shouldnât be that hard to find a disgruntled GI that will vouch for war crimes or any other perceived ill that the left come up with. But if you have ONE person saying one thing and 200 saying another, I wonder who has a problem with memory? Throw in that lefty reporter that we tried to kill and you canât help but laugh at them. Maybe Richard Clark and Joe Wilson will give periphery information?
#4
This guy is obviously suffering the (kerry)mental disorder LYING THROUGH YOUR TEETH and very delusional. This fits good w/ mommy sh*thead and her group.
#5
You're right RC, but this old Marine doesn't view Jimmy Massey as a brother in arms. As R. Lee Ermy said in Full Metal Jacket, he "doesn't pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps".
#6
You're right RC, but this old Marine doesn't view Jimmy Massey as a brother in arms.
Hell, I'm 4F at best, and I think Massey's a traitor. I can't imagine what would have happened to someone who pulled this kind of crap in WWII.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/08/2005 14:28 Comments ||
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#7
If white phosphorus is a chemical weapon, isn't any explosive material?
And then there's this: "The suppression of this story gets darker when one considers that Sgrena was wounded by American troops at the same time that Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari was killed by the US troops. The Italian people and government have opposed the war in Iraq."
A few points -- if we wanted to suppress Sgrena's BS, we could have made her disappear. Also, if Italy's government was against the war, how come thousands of Italian troops served in Iraq?
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/08/2005 15:19 Comments ||
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#8
In the same way elements of our own Government oppose the war, I suppose. In our case they are the bureaucrat lifers in State and the CIA, and some of the elected Dems in Congress. Not sure what the Italian equivalent are. This or that cabinet minister?
INFO TO WASH POST 'DAMAGED NATIONAL SECURITY'
Tue Nov 08 2005 11:36:31 ET
Sources tell Drudge that early this afternoon House Speaker Hastert and Senate Majority Leader Frist will announce a bicameral investigation into the leak of classified information to the WASHINGTON POST regarding the âblack sitesâ where high value al Qaeda terrorists are being held and interrogated. Said one Hill source: âTalk about a leak that damaged national security! How will we ever get our allies to cooperate if they fear that their people will be targeted by al Qaeda.â
According to sources, the WASHINGTON POST story by Dana Priest (Wednesday November 2), revealed highly classified information that has already done significant damage to US efforts in the War on Terror.
Now where do you suppose (coughCIAcough) she got her leak from? And will she go to jail to protect them?
Developing...
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 12:17 ||
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Hey Steve, No one protects them anymore.This is treason.Take Priest throw her in jail and if she doesen't spill, charge her!!!!
#2
They should also be investigating the NY Times story on the CIA's prisoner transfer flights.
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/08/2005 15:08 Comments ||
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#3
Took the words right out of keyboard, Tibor. They outed a whole freakin' active covert OPERATION all while pitching a bitch about Valerie Effing Plame.
#5
So -- how do we DEMAND that MSM cover this story? There has just got to be a way to force them to cover this at least half as much as Phame -- this is really a much more serious problem, as we do know, national security has been compromised and agents have had to be brought home.
What can we do, other than post on the net? That doesn't get the attention this deserves. This is Reps opening it -- they must really go after that reporter or this entire investigation will be forgotten in less than 2 weeks. Just like Sandy Burger.
#6
Here's a WaPo semi-internal self critique published by Gene Weingarten. You'll want to read the whole thing, but here's his thoughts on Dana's article:
1. A story by Dana Priest disclosing the existence of a shadowy web of U.S.-run prisoner interrogation camps so secret that it will surprise some of the most powerful people in this country and the world. This story is so potentially explosive that we actually aren't telling everything we know, for the sake of world peace.
Thanks for nothing, WaPo. And Gene, don't strain your deltoids patting yourself on the back.
#8
Anonomous sources should be eliminated and the media should have to disclose sources for confirmation just too open to abuse in the current situation. These leakers have committed treason and it pisses me off that only now after Plame and the politics are the Repubs ready to prosecute what they should have been prosecuting from the begining. I can remember many such stories the outing of our tap on all cell phones by NSA, the Stealth Satelite, special ops here and thier, and this and more and more. They all should be prosecuted to the fullest for TREASON yes I said treason. National security should be above a good story or politics or ELSE.
#9
CIA staff (including Ms. Plame) are prohibited by law from using their knowledge for political purposes, but their spouses (like Joe Wilson) are not. Georgia Senator Zell Miller wants to change that. Include in that (Miller's proposed amendment, named after Ms. Valerie!) MSM folks leaking and punish - PUNISH - some leakers, and the leaks will stop.
Ask Joe Stalin. Well, maybe that's a bad example....
Posted by: Bobby ||
11/08/2005 20:48 Comments ||
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#10
By KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writer
37 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The CIA took the first step toward a criminal investigation of a leak of possibly classified information on secret prisons to The Washington Post, a U.S. official said Tuesday.
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The agency's general counsel sent a report to the Justice Department about the Post story, which reported the existence of secret U.S. detention centers for suspected terrorists in Eastern Europe.
The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the issue deals with classified information, said the referral was made shortly after the Nov. 2 story. The leak investigation into the disclosure of covert CIA officer Valerie Plame's identity came about through the same referral procedure. The Justice Department will decide whether to initiate a criminal investigation.
Post spokesman Eric Grant said the newspaper had no comment.
On Capitol Hill, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert called for a congressional investigation into the disclosure of the existence of the secret prisons.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice sidestepped questions on secret prisons, saying the United States was in a "different kind of war" and had an obligation to defend itself.
If the Post story is accurate, "such an egregious disclosure could have long-term and far-reaching damaging and dangerous consequences, and will imperil our efforts to protect the American people and our homeland from terrorist attacks," wrote Frist, R-Tenn., and Hastert, R-Ill., asking for a joint leak probe by the Senate and House intelligence committees.
The newspaper's story of a week ago said the CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al-Qaida captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, part of a covert prison system set up by the agency four years ago that at various times has included sites in eight countries. Those countries, said the story, include several democracies.
"If the leadership determines that we should investigate the leak, it would be much like the 9/11" commission, said Senate Intelligence Committee chairman Pat Roberts, R-Kan., who did not dispute a reporter's suggestion that a probe would raise First Amendment press-freedom issues.
Such an investigation would become "very difficult when you're getting into matters like this," said the senator.
Roberts also said he would support hearings into the importance of maintaining a covert agent's cover, a topic triggered by the leak of Plame's identity, eight days after her husband accused the Bush administration of manipulating prewar intelligence to exaggerate the Iraq threat.
Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada said the House and Senate committees with normal jurisdiction should conduct any hearings, not a bicameral committee as suggested in the letter of the two Republican leaders.
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said any such joint investigation should also investigate possible manipulation of prewar intelligence on Iraq.
"If Speaker Hastert and Majority Leader Frist are finally ready to join Democrats' demands for an investigation of possible abuses of classified information, they must direct the House and Senate Intelligence Committees to investigate all aspects of that issue," said Pelosi.
The letter asked, concerning the leak of information about prisons, "What is the actual and potential damage done to the national security of the United States and our partners in the global war on terror?"
"We will consider other changes to this mandate based on your recommendations," Frist and Hastert wrote.
The letter said the leaking of classified information by employees of the U.S. government appeared to have increased in recent years, "establishing a dangerous trend that, if not addressed swiftly and firmly, likely will worsen."
"We are hopeful that you will be able to accomplish this task in a bipartisan manner given general agreement that intelligence matters should not be politicized," it added.
Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch, said Republicans "should be focused on the illegality of these prisons, not the revelation of the illegality."
The allegations about secret prisons prompted denials from governments in the former Soviet bloc. Such prisons, European officials say, would violate the continent's human rights principles.
While not confirming the existence of secret prisons, Rice told reporters, "We, our allies, others who have experienced attacks, have to find a way to protect our people."
The administration has protected itself "within the constraint of the Constitution and cognizant of our values," said Rice. "The United States holds to these values today as strongly as we ever have."
By Sher Zieve â Monday, Ernesto Cienfuegos a leader of the California-based separatist group La Voz de Aztlan wrote: âToday, here in Los Angeles, we are already seeing ominous signs of an impending social explosion that will make the French rebellion by Muslim and immigrant youths seem "tame" by comparison.â
Uh huh. And so will the response by the LAPD.
Los Angeles currently has an Hispanic Mayor and California is well-represented by a large number of Hispanics in both the State House of Representatives and Senate. La Voz de Aztlan is an Hispanic terrorist separatist group that has, for years, been demanding that the Border States including California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas be returned to Mexico.
Mr. Cienfuegos also wrote in his Monday column: âThe social and economic conditions that exist in France that adversely affect its immigrant and Muslim populations also exist here in the USA.â La Voz de Aztlanâs website also carries articles claiming that the Muslim beheadings of American citizens are âfraudsâ and publishes pro-Communist and anti-Semitic writings.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 15:00 ||
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#7
there's a Wade Churchill in every fringe - all talk no walk. This fat fuck would be the one with the bullhorn, behind the lines, urging others to do what he is afraid of. Aztlan? You can't even run a third world country propoerly, dickwads
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/08/2005 15:27 Comments ||
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#11
Besoeker, you are beginning to worry me. Your comment leads me to believe you have never been on the receiving end of hostile fire. If one has to defend oneself from hostile people that is all well and good but one should NEVER WISH for something Mr. Cienfuegos is alluding to. This isn't a game, real people will be maimed and killed. He strikes me as being loco y lleno a rebosar de palabreria.(full to overflowing of hot air)
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
11/08/2005 15:50 Comments ||
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#12
BJ Clinton once again steps in it, giving credence to Savage's premise that "Liberalism is a mental disorder."
#13
Can any body help me. If he gets his way, what rivers would they have to cross to get work in Oregon, Colorado, Oklahoma, Nevada and Utah for work?
#14
when it happens I'll have so many decisions to make
PIMF :-(
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/08/2005 16:01 Comments ||
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#15
Deacon: My mother is worried about me too. I'm an overweight, 26 year old gay UCLA Vaginacology grad student and civil war medical corps reenactor. I vote independent, drive a VW, collect comic books. I hate violence, and airplane noise. I've just applied for my Class-III license. I help out around campus on week ends by feeding birds and picking up dead animals. I hope to one day become a bartender on Bourbon Street. What do you do and where do you live?
#16
if the muslims and africans in France were as well integrated as hispanics are in the US, Paris would be quiet now. And France would be much stronger than it is.
#19
WTF? Does not like airplane noise? Well, I can see it if you lived on the approach path of a jet airport, but we think of the sounds of in-line and radial aircraft engines to be soothing lullabies for our kids in Rural Alaska.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/08/2005 16:23 Comments ||
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#20
Without going into great detail let me be the first to say that this guys is what San Franciscanâs call a âhump.â While nothing is perfect, the assimilation of Mexican immigrants (especially legal ones) into the American family is preceding along briskly here in the West. Yes, itâs important to remember Michael Savageâs motto of âBoarders, Language, Cultureâ when it comes to our foreign affairs. At the same we should remember that this has nothing to do with race, religion, or the right of new immigrants to maintain any number of traditions, so long as they donât radically conflict with our own. With most non-Islamic immigrant cultures this isnât a big problem. For example, both of my wifeâs parents immigrated to our country from Europe (Ireland and Italy, respectively). My business partner immigrated from England. I have one sister-in-law whose parents came here from the Philippines, another whose parents moved here from Mexico. It may surprise Mr. Cienfuegos to learn that no cars have yet been burned at one of our annual Christmas parties.
To summerize:
1) Americans are largely Christian. Mexicans are almost exclusively Christian. Franceâs Muslim âyouthsâ despise Christianity.
2) Americans are largely capitalist. Mexicans are capitalism personified. Franceâs Muslim âyouthsâ have never even considered starting a business that didnât involve drugs, thievery, or gang rape.
3) Americans are largely hardworking. Mexicans are very hardworking. Franceâs Muslim âyouthsâ seem to despise work.
4) Americans like their women, who get to vote, run corporations, and hold public office. Mexicans are a little more conservative but, in most places, woman can still do these things. Franceâs Muslim âyouthsâ remind me of droogs from A Clockwork Orange. Womenâs what, Abdul?
5) While opinions on what âtoleranceâ actually means may differ, Americans generally donât care if you are gay. Mexicans are about the same. Franceâs Muslim âyouthsâ despise homosexuals... which probably means that they are gay. Actually, I donât want to think about that one very hard.
We like most of the same sports, we both speak Latin based languages, and we both use democratic federal governmental systems to run our countries (yes, I know Mexicoâs is corrupt). Yes we sometimes fight with each other (much like older and younger brothers do), but itâs been almost 100 years since there has been any kind of real war. Like any neighbors we have problems, but with some effort they are solvable.
All of which somehow leads me to believe that Mr. Cienfuegos isnât going to become the governor of the Mexican state of California del Norte anytime soon.
#21
There's no doubt that Mexican men and women full of dignity, willpower and a capacity for work are doing the work that not even blacks others want to do in the United States.
#23
if the muslims and africans in France were as well integrated as hispanics are in the US,..
That's relatively speaking. I had an ex-girlfriend that was a U.S. born Latina. She and a number of her latina buddies had just a little too much cultural baggage to suit me....
#24
Plainslow,
What rivers? They are already here. A better question is what river would they have to cross to go back.
liberalhawk,
whoa, that would be very scary if the muslims were as entrenched as the hispanics. Important here to note illegals vs citizens, also muslims vs jihad type muslims. Here in Denver we have several scary neighborhoods populated by hispanics mostly illegals, and the amount of violence is very frightening. I sense what is happening in France will soon be here, before we know what's hit us. The amount of poverty seems high too, I'm sorry that I don't have the numbers.
While diversity is a good thing, saturation has shown it's ugly face with folks wanting services because of being so very poor.
Posted by: Jan ||
11/08/2005 16:56 Comments ||
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#25
Hopefully a few people will replay this fellows comments when the elections start rolling around and the immigration questions start burbling up.
It'd be a lot easier for the US to expell unhappy Mexicans than for France to airlift out the Muslims.
#26
"...impending social explosion that will make the French rebellion by Muslim and immigrant youths seem "tame" by comparison."
The response by US authorities and citizens defending their property and country will make the French response seem "tame" by comparison as well, mi amigo.
This gringo says: Los Estados Unitos es no Frauwncepussieland. ?Comprende, bandejo?
#27
I think it is possible that we could have outbreaks in our ghettos. The actions in France will have emboldened them.
The best they can hope for is a replay of New Orleans. The mayor of Los Angeles may be a Nagin, but California isn't Louisianna, not by any stretch. So maybe the RFSP will run around for a day or two, claiming all of LA belongs to them. But spiral out of control for more than 2 days for lack of response, it won't. And it won't spread out of the cities, as our citizens are armed.
Now, as for Dearborn or places like that, well, they might get a few more days to thump their chests and have the media film the local leaders breaking into sobs on camera for the poor downtrodden, as those places are as equally corrupt as New Orleans or France. And care will ramp up a fundraising effort about how Muslims are singled out for abuse. However, when the feds step in, the party will over and the RFSP will have lost the respect and good will of their neighbors, who have to clean up their mess and we will be one step further away from tolerance and one step closer to tightening immigration controls than we were before.
Look at New Orleans. We aren't even sure we want to rebuild it. No pony promises will be the result here.
#29
you know, to summarize my above post, you think at some point these folks would learn. When you attack Americans - we bite back - hard. It's always been that way ..since the our initial revolution, etc., etc. Pearl Harbor, 911 etc. Constant demands and whining from the ghettos resulted in welfare reform. Constant demands and whining from Muslims resulted in the patriot act. Sobbing in New Orleans will result in a sweeping of corrupt police and politicians.
Our press and some fringe elements may demand pony's for the RFSP - but the American people aren't willing to pony up.
#32
Off topic to Besoeker: I've liked all your posts, except your reply to cingold the other day (I'm catching up on the past few days). Some of us have been here several years and are fully acquainted with some of the more clever "trolls" that show up. You were off base. Zenster DOES have an agenda, which if understood, puts his posts in context. If not, he sounds can sound just like you (some friendly FYI). Personally speaking, rantburg was more fun in the old days when the trolls abounded--and we sure had some doozies. I'm glad Zenster is still here, and sometimes he has some good things to contribute when he's not contributing his other stuff.
#33
You know, it just occured to me that most of hispanics I know are either military veterans or the children of military veterans. I don't think any of them are into "La Voz de Aztlan" or anything like that, and if Aztlan popped into existance tomorrow I suspect they'd be much better suited to _run_ it than a professional perennial politican like Cienfuegos.
Posted by: Phil ||
11/08/2005 17:20 Comments ||
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#34
Thanks for the reassurance Bes. I like things when they are under control. NOLA is looking good.
#36
Don't forget, kids, most Mexicans who move here (legals and illegals) are looking to access the American Dream: education, entrepeneurship, upward mobility, malls, suburbs, and so on. (The la Raza types are loud, but numerically insignificant.) They don't want to trash the place, they want to buy in.
The French muslims are mostly born in France, and are, for numerous reasons detailed here, basically closed out of the "French dream."
Different populations, different circumstances--it's like comparing appleas and crabpples.
Posted by: Mike ||
11/08/2005 17:29 Comments ||
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#37
Since that guy's name translates to "100 Fires", methinks he will have a talk with "Son of the Devil", the Secy of Homeland Security, Chertoff.
#38
2b, I'm not sure where you were going on the comments about New Orleans, but the motto on the Louisiana state flag has been changed to "Shoot to Kill."
Posted by: Matt ||
11/08/2005 17:46 Comments ||
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#39
Mike,
While I agree that some Mexicans move here for the american dream, the ones that I encounter are here for the free services. Free medical and school to name a few. Draining our community, having to spend millions for interpreting services rather than real hands on programs. (Referendum C passed here which is terrible in my view.)
As far as the French "muslims", from sites I've read it seems they have more loyalties to their homelands than to France.
Posted by: Jan ||
11/08/2005 18:03 Comments ||
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#40
Ernesto Cienfuegos still thinks that Mexicans living in California yearn for he old country. I know a lot of expats and other thatn the family that is there they do not hope that Mexico annexes California or to become it's own country. That's becuase as Americans we have a lot more rights than Mexico or the Aztlan group would grant to everyone. These guys are popular at college but most drift away after they graduate. It's an anti-establishment phase that is getting smaller every year. Basically he is a Berkley type that never grew up.
#41
I need a good rotation of my ammo I have stocked...
Please Ernesto start here in SoCal. Between the commies, Moooslums and you idiots it is a very target rich environment!
#43
The lead democrat trying for the Governor position was a member of one of these idiot groups in college MeCHA and I think it helped kill his chances.
#44
CS is on it - they have appeal in colleges but only the hard-core stay involved after. Mexicans are hard working, I just want them to enter legally (or work temporarily - legally). My ex-wife was half-mexican and her extended family in Tijuana and Ensenada were delightful people - doctors, teachers, professionals. I hope some day that the Mexican gov't gets reformed, tehy make it easier for Mexicans to stay home to earn living wages, until then, Cienfuegos? chupame
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/08/2005 19:44 Comments ||
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#45
I always figured that the wording was chosen rather carefully:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
Before they send in the Marines and the Rangers to restore order (under a media blackout), maybe broadcast a piece about MSG Roy Benavidez, to make sure the banditos know in whose memory they are being "netralized".
It's become much easier to identify the "domestic enemies" these days when they announce their intentions in the MSM.
A number of my friends have applied for and received CC Weapons Permits in other states and and packing at all times here in California. It's not really legal, but WTF, it's easier to beg forgiveness after the fact especially with an armed dead cholo at your feet.
#51
It drives me nuts how the American poor get shafted with medical care, while the illegals get free medical with emergency medicaid. For the middle class it's even worse with monthly insurance premiums, caps on illness and co-pays for visits and drugs, and some plans only pay 80% of the hospital bill. Sometimes I wonder if the hospital encourages the illegals because they are funded so well by the government.
The Mexicans need to come in legally; and the ones here illegally shouldn't be granted citizenship after being here trompling all over laws that they broke. It isn't fair to the ones that came here legally.
Here in Denver, the city has started talking about "residents" rather than "citizens". This is part of our sanctuary policy that Denver seems to have adopted. These illegals often aren't living in the best of circumstances, very similar to the poor muslims in France. Dare I compare?
I know it isn't PC these days to harbor these feelings, most hispanic people are very loving and family oriented. Stepping back to see the whole picture here though of how this issue is tearing our country apart is what we need to look at. We need to at least all play by the same rules.
I have several friends that are getting eaten alive with medical bills. What's up with our not transporting the illegals back?
The OTM's are of grave concern here. I feel it's only a matter of time before they get more organized and we'll have rioting like France here in our backyard.
BAR yep and that's us.
Sorry for drifting off topic a bit here.
Posted by: Jan ||
11/08/2005 22:54 Comments ||
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#52
Jan: Our country and society can only absorb so much of the medical costs, there is definately a limit. The cost of Federal mandates that tell hospitals to treat patients regardess are simply passed on to those who have insurance and can pay. The non-payers have no qualms about taking advantage of the free health care. The Mexicans work damn hard until their bodies wear out at around age 45-50. Most don't just retire and go back home, they stay here and continue to take advantage of the health care system...just like I would if I were they. Consequently, we now have both worker immigrants and retirees to care for. The system is in overload and severly aggrevated by another ill the Feds have done little about calle legal tort. Doc's are leaving the profession in record numbers. Few people can affort to pay $150,000 to half a million each year in tort insurance. The numbers just are not there. I won't even go into perscription meds. Medical care in this country is in a crisis.
TAMPA, Fla., Nov 7 (Reuters) - A fired Florida university professor and three other Palestinians sent money to a group that they knew had killed Israelis and Americans, a prosecutor said on Monday in closing arguments. The prosecutor's statement came at the end of a five-month trial in one of the most important cases to go before a U.S. court since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.
Palestinian academic Sami al-Arian was arrested in February 2003, along with Sameeh Hammoudeh, Hatem Fariz and Ghassan Ballut on charges they helped the Palestinian group Islamic Jihad, named by Washington as a terrorist organization. Assistant U.S. Attorney Cherie Krigsman told jurors that evidence indicated the four men raised and sent money to the Palestinian Islamic Jihad "when they knew the PIJ murdered people."
"The evidence has shown time and time again that the defendants acted to further the goals of the PIJ," she said.
Al-Arian, a former professor at the University of South Florida, and the others were charged in a 53-count indictment with conspiracy to commit murder, racketeering, money laundering, immigration fraud and obstruction of justice. If convicted, they could be sentenced to life in prison. The defendants have said any funds they sent to the Islamic Jihad was for charitable activities. Al-Arian said he was being persecuted for his outspoken support of Palestinian causes.
At the time of the indictment, then-U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft said Al-Arian was the Islamic Jihad's North American leader. The United States designated the Islamic Jihad a terrorist organization in 1997 and said it was responsible for killing more than 100 people in Israel, including three Americans. But Krigsman disagreed. "When you support a terrorist group, you support a terrorist group," she said.
Krigsman said there was no direct evidence that the defendants committed any murders. But she told jurors they could use circumstantial evidence and their common sense to find that the defendants were acting to further the goals of the Islamic Jihad.
None of the defendants testified at the trial. Al-Arian and Ballut did not call any witnesses.
Most of the government's evidence was based on thousands of hours of wiretapped telephone calls along with intercepted e-mails and faxes and bank records. Al-Arian founded the Tampa-based Islamic Committee for Palestine and the World and Islam Studies Enterprise. Attorneys for the defendants will make their closing arguments on Tuesday and Wednesday before the case goes to the jury.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 10:30 ||
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#1
I know your Islamic Studies program is in the ditch USF, but thank you, you liberal, leftest accademian wonks for hosting Dr. Sami, the worthless piece of kak. I hope he gets 10,000 years.
#2
"Al-Arian, a former professor at the University of South Florida (and current asshole and not likely to get better). Saw this guy on Fox a couple of years ago. He is one of the most arrogant assholes I have had the displeasure to listen to.
#5
It's only really arrogance if you aren't as good as you think you are. Unfortunately, most of these leftist, academic jerks aren't even in the same universe as their self-esteem.
Investigators in the United States and Britain are urgently investigating information suggesting that a group of terrorism suspects recently arrested in the London area may have been plotting to blow up Washington landmarks using homemade bombs. Counterterrorism officials, who asked to remain anonymous because the investigation was continuing, said the suspectsâ possible targets included the White House and the U.S. Capitol complex.
Investigators appear to be uncertain about how far the plotting against Washington targets had advanced before the arrests. While British officials call the investigation active and urgent, U.S. officials, while acknowledging they were aware of the possible threats against the White House and Capitol Hill, said they were not sure whether the targets were part of an imminent plot or was more bravado among Islamic militants. Officials in both countries are concerned, however, that the suspects could be part of a terror network stretching from the United States to Britain to Bosnia.
British authorities are treating the suspects as serious conspirators. According to an official charging document issued on Friday by Scotland Yard, police last month seized a computer hard drive belonging to Younis Tsouli, 22, containing pictures of âa number of places in Washington D.C. including a CRBN vehicle in circumstances which give rise to a reasonable suspicion that your possession is for a purpose connected with the commission, preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism.â Tsouli is also charged with possessing other computerized slides demonstrating how to make a car bomb. (CBRN stands for chemical, radiological, biological or nuclear. The document may have be referring to an anti-WMD vehicle deployed by law enforcement.)
Tsouli is also charged with conspiring with Wassem Mughal, 22, also arrested, to cause explosions in Britain and with Tariq al-Daour to commit credit-card fraud. Mughal is charged with having in the bedroom of his home in Chatham, Kent, a town southeast of London, a DVD entitled âMartyrdom Operations Vest,â as well as a document in Arabic entitled âWelcome to Jihadâ and a piece of paper containing the words âHospital=attack,â according to the Scotland Yard document. Mughal is also accused of possessing a document containing a recipe for rocket propellant and âguidance-containing explosion.â While Tsouli and Mughal are both charged with conspiracy to murder and conspiracy to cause an explosion, the only terrorism-related charges faced by the third defendant, Al-Daour, 19, involve financial activity âfor the purposes of terrorism.â
British media reports said at least two of the arrested men were naturalized U.K. citizens; other reports said none of the suspects were born in Britain. At an arraignment hearing in London on Friday, the suspects confirmed their identity and had the charges read to them, but did not formally enter pleas to the charges. The identities of their lawyers could not immediately be determined.
U.S. counterterrorism officials said they had been aware of the London investigation before todayâs Scotland Yard announcement but were uncertain about how seriously to take the information indicating that the suspects had plotted attacks against the White House and Capitol Hill. One official indicated that the targeting of Washington landmarks could be little more than âjihadist chatter.â Another official said that some of the images of Washington contained on the seized hard drive could be innocent vacation snapshots.
Nonetheless, the officials said, appropriate security personnel around Washington had been informed about the threat. Terrance Gainer, chief of the U.S. Capitol Police, told NEWSWEEK: âWe continue to be very, very vigilant up here ⊠We work very closely with all the federal agencies and are fully informed.â Gainer added, however, that his department was ânot concerned about any direct threat or attackâ against the Capitol in the immediate future. A spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security had no immediate comment.
Counterterrorism officials in the United States and the United Kingdom said that the new criminal charges against the London suspects were the result of an elaborate international investigation, codenamed Operation Mazhar by Scotland Yard, into a suspected jihadi network stretching from London to Washington to the Bosnian capitol of Sarajevo. According to the officials, the U.K. suspects are believed to have been in e-mail contact, via Hotmail accounts, with a suspected major jihadi recruiter who used the Internet nom de guerre âMaximus.â According to the officials, Maximus was initially based in Sweden, but then moved to Bosnia, where investigators believe he helped to run a network recruiting disaffected European youth to go to Iraq to join the insurgency. Investigators believe the network engaged in extensive credit-card fraud to finance its activity and raise funds for jihadi groups.
Mughal had been residing in an outer suburb of London. Tsouli lives in a run-down apartment building in West London with an older man who neighbors say they believe is his father. A neighbor, Ludmila Mitusova, said the first time she saw Tsouli was during his arrest on Oct. 21: âThere were about 20 policemen who came in with special masks on their faces,â she says, âThe police stayed for two nights at his home.â
Al-Daour, the man charged only with financial offenses, last January appeared before London magistrates court charged with racially motivated common assault. He was accused of attacking a 24-year-old Jewish man outside a North London parochial school in late 2004. The case against him was thrown out of court recently because of a lack of evidence. Al-Daour lives in a six-story apartment complex on a busy street near a West London railway station.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 09:10 ||
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#1
Newsweek: salt to taste
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/08/2005 10:30 Comments ||
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Five foreign terrorism suspects at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have been charged with war crimes and will face military trials, bringing to nine the number charged at Guantanamo to date, the Pentagon announced on Monday.
Two of the five "enemy combatants" facing charges are from Saudi Arabia, the Pentagon said. The other three are from Algeria, Ethiopia and Canada. Nearly 500 detainees are being held at the Navy prison in Cuba.
The charges were announced just hours after the Supreme Court said it would decide whether President George W. Bush has the power to create military tribunals to put Guantanamo prisoners on trial for war crimes, an important test of the administration's policy in the war on terrorism.
The five suspects face charges ranging from murder to attacking civilians, the Pentagon said. The Canadian, a teen-ager, is accused of killing a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan.
No dates have been set for trials of the five by U.S. military commissions, which critics have said do not give detainees the same rights as civilian courts.
Hundreds of other detainees held at Guantanamo, most of them arrested in Afghanistan and many held for more than three years, have not yet been charged. The Guantanamo facility opened in January 2002, just months after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.
The Bush administration has come under strong international criticism, including from the International Committee of the Red Cross, for holding prisoners for years without charging them. The administration counters that the terror suspects do not have rights guaranteed under the Geneva Conventions.
The Pentagon on Monday identified the five charged as Ghassan Abdullah al Sharbi and Jabran Said bin al Qahtani of Saudi Arabia, Sufyian Barhoumi of Algeria, Binyam Ahmed Muhammad of Ethiopia and Omar Khadr of Canada.
Khadr, a Canadian who recently turned 19 years old, was just 15 when he was sent to Guantanamo and is accused of killing a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan and with attempted murder.
The other four are charged with conspiracy to commit murder, attacks on innocent civilians, destruction of property and terrorism.
Barbara Olshansky, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights who has represented Khadr and other Guantanamo prisoners, called it shocking that the charges were announced on the day the Supreme Court said it would review the legality of military tribunals.
"The fact that they've seen fit to designate people for trial by military commission when the very constitutionality of the tribunal is up before the Supreme Court just evinces the most blatant disdain for the judicial branch and the separation of powers principle," Olshansky said.
Khadr is the son of suspected al Qaeda financier Ahmed Said Khadr, who was born in Egypt and jailed in Pakistan in 1996 for alleged involvement in an Egyptian Embassy bombing before being freed at the request of Jean Chretien, Canadian prime minister at the time.
The elder Khadr was killed in a 2003 shootout with Pakistani security forces at an al Qaeda compound.
The four detainees charged earlier include Australian David Hicks, two Yemenis and a Sudanese.
Hicks' trial, put on hold last year because of federal court rulings over Guantanamo, is set to resume on Nov. 18. Dates have not been set for trials of the other three men.
Spurning a request by U.N. human rights investigators, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said last week that the United States would not allow them to meet with detainees at Guantanamo.
Rumsfeld also told a Pentagon news conference that prisoners at the naval base were staging a hunger strike that began in early August as a successful ploy to attract media attention.
The military said last week that 27 detainees were engaging in the hunger strike, including 24 receiving forced-feedings. But detainees' lawyers estimated that about 200 were taking part and that the strike was a protest of the prisoners' conditions and lack of legal rights.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:44 ||
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#1
Shocking, simply shocking. And it would've been better to wait some more, before charging anyone? Then you could've complained even longer, Madam Olshansky.
Posted by: Bobby ||
11/08/2005 5:42 Comments ||
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#2
Two of the five "enemy combatants" facing charges are from Saudi Arabia, the Pentagon said. The other three are from Algeria, Ethiopia and Canada. Nearly 500 detainees are being held at the Navy prison in Cuba.
Surprise Surprise Surprise! Sergeant Carter Have I got a Surprise for you!
#4
You gotta question the enemy combatant label. These people had no allegiance to a country or government. They wore no uniforms. Terrorists seems to be a good label. Firing squads seems to be appropriate.
An Arabic translator who worked for an Army intelligence unit in Iraq was held without bail yesterday on charges that he had lied to gain United States citizenship. Federal prosecutors also said he had made unexplained telephone calls from the United States to people linked to the Iraqi insurgency.
The translator had a classified document in his Brooklyn home, a prosecutor said at the bail hearing in Federal District Court in Brooklyn. The man was employed under the false name Almaliki Nour by the L-3 Titan Group, which has a military contract to provide Arabic-speaking interpreters, the prosecutor said.
While the translator had a security clearance, he was not authorized to have the classified document in his home. "This document, which is quite thick, contained detailed information about the insurgency and the means for combating it," said the prosecutor, John Buretta, an assistant United States attorney. No charges related to the document have been filed.
In arguing against bail, Mr. Buretta told Magistrate Judge Kiyo A. Matsumoto that investigators had found telephone numbers for two known Iraqi insurgents stored in the man's cellphone address book.
Mr. Buretta said the translator had also made about 100 telephone calls to numbers that were directly involved with the insurgency, including some that had been found in safe houses that may have been used by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Mr. Zarqawi is the leader of Al Qaeda's Iraq operations.
The translator developed ties to several Sunni sheiks whose tribes supported the insurgency, and they provided him with cash to travel to Egypt and Jordan, Mr. Buretta said. He contended that releasing the man, who lives on Hoyt Street in Brooklyn, "likely would directly endanger U.S. soldiers in Iraq."
But prosecutors have not charged the man with spying, nor do they contend that he worked as a double agent. It was unclear whether he would face more serious charges related to the classified document.
Prosecutors said that much about him - including his real name and his background - remained unclear. At one point, he told F.B.I. agents his real name was Noureedine Malki, but investigators could not confirm that. They believe he is from Morocco.
The criminal complaint says the man began seeking political asylum in 1989 under the name Almaliki Nour, claiming he was escaping religious persecution in Lebanon, where he had received death threats because his mother was Roman Catholic and his father Muslim. He claimed that both were killed when his family's house in Beirut was shelled and that he feared that "their fate awaits me."
He became a naturalized citizen on Feb. 18, 2000. He later admitted that many of the statements made on his asylum application and a subsequent application for citizenship were false, and that the name was fictitious, according to the criminal complaint.
The man's lawyer, Mildred M. Whalen, acknowledged during the hearing that her client had become a citizen based on false statements. But she said that he had spoken to the Sunni sheiks as part of their negotiations to get contracts with the United States military and that the conversations had developed into social relationships. "He would receive calls from them, he would call them to simply ask how they were," Ms. Whalen said.
Later, in a telephone interview, she denied that he had had any contacts with insurgents and said that he had never done anything to hurt the American soldiers with whom he had worked.
"What I can say is that he became a citizen of this country because he loves this country, and he went to Iraq because he thought he could help this country," she said. "He has never done anything to knowingly harm this country."
She said that the military people he worked with had written him letters of recommendation and letters of commendation. She said she could not provide them because her client had handed them over to prosecutors.
The complaint said that the man worked for L-3 Titan for about two years. A spokesman for the company, Evan Goetz, said that the man no longer worked there. But Mr. Goetz could not say when the man stopped working for Titan or why, or say anything about the circumstances under which he was hired or about his work there.
It was unclear why the translator came under scrutiny, but the complaint said he was interviewed by F.B.I. agents and Department of Defense investigators in Iraq in September to determine, among other things, whether he should continue to have access to classified information.
Later, in Brooklyn, he admitted to F.B.I. agents that he had lied about his name, his date of birth and where he was born, among other things, the complaint says.
The man, who is charged with three counts of lying to federal authorities, faces a maximum of 20 years in prison if he is convicted.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:39 ||
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"Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk."
-Henry David Thoreau
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/08/2005 7:56 Comments ||
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Sigh. Our government is made up of a bunch of Special Ed dropouts.
Posted by: ed ||
11/08/2005 8:00 Comments ||
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Seems to me employing non-native citizens in positions with access to classified information (in either governmental or private industry positions) needs some rethinking.
#8
Remember that after 9/11 the Persian-Jewish community (who were all US citizens of long standing) volunteered en masse to work as translators for the FBI, but none were hired, lest the Muslim translators be upset by having to work beside Jews.
#9
The more one hears about the endless stream of Muslim complaints, the more difficult it is not to develop a healthy dislike for the religion and a lot of its adherents.
#10
Trailing Wife, I guess it never occured to anyone in the gov to have two buildings and not let them talk to each other? THey should do that as a matter of course and have some things translated by both groups for a compare and contrast on the quality levels.
#11
#9 The more one hears about the endless stream of Muslim complaints, the more difficult it is not to develop a healthy dislike for the religion and a lot of its adherents.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-11-08 16:57|| Front Page|| Comment Top
Rama: Most of my friends and family have already arrived!
#12
The man's lawyer, Mildred M. Whalen, acknowledged during the hearing that her client had become a citizen based on false statements. But she said that he had spoken to the Sunni sheiks as part of their negotiations to get contracts with the United States military and that the conversations had developed into social relationships. "He would receive calls from them, he would call them to simply ask how they were," Ms. Whalen said
Mildred, that is weak. Very, very weak. I mean that is SO lame, Leno could use it.
Five foreign terrorism suspects at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have been charged with war crimes and will face military trials, bringing to nine the number charged at Guantanamo to date, the Pentagon announced on Monday. Two of the five "enemy combatants" facing charges are from Saudi Arabia, the Pentagon said. The other three are from Algeria, Ethiopia and Canada. The charges were announced just hours after the Supreme Court said it would decide whether President George W. Bush has the power to create military tribunals to put Guantanamo prisoners on trial for war crimes, an important test of the administration's policy in the war on terrorism.
The five suspects face charges ranging from murder to attacking civilians, the Pentagon said. No dates have been set for trials of the five by U.S. military commissions, which critics have said do not give detainees the same rights as civilian courts. Hundreds of other detainees held at Guantanamo, most of them arrested in Afghanistan and many held for more than three years, have not yet been charged. The Guantanamo facility opened in January 2002, just months after the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.
The Bush administration has come under strong international criticism, including from the International Committee of the Red Cross, for holding prisoners for years without charging them. The administration counters that the terror suspects do not have rights guaranteed under the Geneva Conventions.
Khadr, a Canadian who recently turned 19 years old, was just 15 when he was sent to Guantanamo and is accused of killing a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan and with attempted murder. The other four are charged with conspiracy to commit murder, attacks on innocent civilians, destruction of property and terrorism.
Barbara Olshansky, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights who has represented Khadr and other Guantanamo prisoners, called it shocking that the charges were announced on the day the Supreme Court said it would review the legality of military tribunals. "The fact that they've seen fit to designate people for trial by military commission when the very constitutionality of the tribunal is up before the Supreme Court just evinces the most blatant disdain for the judicial branch and the separation of powers principle," Olshansky said.
Khadr is the son of suspected al Qaeda financier Ahmed Said Khadr, who was born in Egypt and jailed in Pakistan in 1996 for alleged involvement in an Egyptian Embassy bombing before being freed at the request of Jean Chretien, Canadian prime minister at the time. The elder Khadr was killed in a 2003 shootout with Pakistani security forces at an al Qaeda compound.
The four detainees charged earlier include Australian David Hicks, two Yemenis and a Sudanese. Hicks' trial, put on hold last year because of federal court rulings over Guantanamo, is set to resume on November 18. Dates have not been set for trials of the other three men.
Spurning a request by U.N. human rights investigators, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said last week that the United States would not allow them to meet with detainees at Guantanamo. Rumsfeld also told a Pentagon news conference that prisoners at the naval base were staging a hunger strike that began in early August as a successful ploy to attract media attention. The military said last week that 27 detainees were engaging in the hunger strike, including 24 receiving forced-feedings. But detainees' lawyers estimated that about 200 were taking part and that the strike was a protest of the prisoners' conditions and lack of legal rights.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/08/2005 00:00 ||
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Coalition forces killed two terrorists and captured six others today during a raid on an al Qaeda in Iraq safe house in Albu Bani near Ramadi, Iraq, military officials reported. Acting on multiple intelligence sources and tips from concerned citizens, coalition forces converged on the terrorist safe house, which apparently was used as an operational base to plan and conduct attacks on Iraqi security and coalition forces in the Ramadi area, officials said.
Elsewhere, Iraqi police and members of a Task Force Baghdad military police unit responded to the scene of a terrorist rocket attack in eastern Baghdad Nov. 7. Three Iraqi citizens were killed and another was wounded when the 127 mm rocket detonated shortly before 4 p.m. Iraqi police secured the site and evacuated the wounded to a local hospital.
In other operations, a patrol operating near Logistics Support Area Anaconda, southeast of Balad, discovered six separate weapons caches after seeing an insurgent digging near a road Nov. 6. The man spotted the patrol and tried to cover the hole and walk away, but the patrol was able to stop him and check the area he was digging in, finding three separate caches. The soldiers escorted the man to his home, where three more caches were found. Among the items unearthed were more than 20 rocket-propelled grenades, four mortar rounds and two artillery shells. The patrol called in an explosive ordinance disposal team, which destroyed the weapons in controlled detonations.
Acting on a tip from an Iraqi civilian, Task Force Baghdad soldiers discovered bomb-making materials Nov 6 in the backyard of an Abu Ghraib farmhouse. The tip led soldiers from 1st Squadron, 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment, to five possible terrorist safe houses. The search began around 6 a.m. At noon, the soldiers discovered cell phones and a video camera in a bucket buried behind the farmhouse. This find led the unit to conduct a more extensive search of the area, which netted several more items intended for improvised explosive device construction. The soldiers found a car battery, 10 cell phones with wires, four voltage regulators, one video camera, a ski mask, eight cell phones wired for IEDs, 15 feet of detonation cord, a washing machine timer, eight sticks of dynamite encased in rock plaster form, one 60 mm rocket, two 107 mm rockets, and plastic explosives.
In other Iraq news, soldiers from 1st Battalion, 184th Infantry Regiment, conducted a combat operation onto two river islands along the Tigris River Nov. 7. At the end of the day, the soldiers found a weapons cache that included 100 rounds of 12.7 mm ammunition, one 57 mm rocket launcher, a six-tube mortar launcher and one 60 mm mortar round. During an earlier mission on the evening of Nov. 5, the soldiers detained three terror suspects in the town of Horajeb.
In the air war over Iraq, coalition aircraft flew 53 close-air support and armed-reconnaissance sorties Nov. 7 for Operation Iraqi Freedom. These missions included support to coalition troops, infrastructure protection, reconstruction activities, and operations to deter and disrupt terrorist activities. Coalition aircraft also supported Iraqi and coalition ground forces operations to create a secure environment for ongoing Transitional National Assembly meetings.
United States Air Force F-15s attacked a terrorist weapons cache near Ramadi. U.S. Navy F-14s and F/A-18s struck buildings used by terrorists as firing positions near Husaybah. Navy F/A-18s struck a building used by terrorists as a firing position near Mahmudiyah. U.S. Air Force F-16s and F-15s provided close-air support to coalition troops in contact with terrorists near Husaybah.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/08/2005 13:13 ||
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U.S. Marines killed five insurgents and captured 10 others in a city west of Baghdad as American forces there stepped up their campaign to suppress deadly roadside bombs, the U.S. military said Tuesday. Roadside bombs killed at least seven Iraqi security troops across the country.
Four Americans, meanwhile, died Monday evening in a suicide car bombing in southwestern Baghdad, the military said. A civilian translator was also killed in the attack.
According to a military statement, the five insurgents died Monday in Ramadi, 70 miles west of Baghdad, in a series of shootings that began when Marines discovered their attempts to plant bombs in a hole used by militants in the past to conceal explosives.
The incident occurred one day after Army snipers killed eight insurgents who were also trying to conceal explosives in Ramadi, capital of Iraq's most volatile province, Anbar.
Roadside bombs have become the major killer of American forces in Iraq, accounting for most of the 96 deaths among U.S. service members here last month. And roadside bombs killed at least seven Iraqi security personnel Tuesday, according to police.
Four Iraqi soldiers, including a major, were killed by a roadside bomb in Khalis, 35 miles north of Baghdad. To the south, a senior member of the Iraqi police in Basra, Col. Mahmoud Qassim, was killed by a bomb south of the city, police said. Another policeman also died in the attack.
A roadside bomb also killed a policeman and wounded three others Tuesday near the northern oil city of Kirkuk, police said.
The U.S. military released few details about the deaths of the four Americans and their translator in the suicide car bombings. They were members of the U.S. Army's Task Force Baghdad and were killed about 5 p.m. Monday, the military said.
Their deaths brought to at least 2,054 the number of U.S. military personnel who have died since the Iraq war started in 2003, according to an Associated Press count.
U.S. commanders have stepped up operations against the insurgents in hopes of establishing enough stability for national elections to go ahead as planned Dec. 15. U.S. officials hope to encourage a large turnout among Sunni Arabs to encourage many of them to lay down their arms and join the political process.
Sunni Arabs, who make up an estimated 20 percent of Iraq's 27 million people, form the core of the insurgency. Many of them boycotted the January election, enabling Shiites and Kurds to dominate the current parliament - a move that has led to further alienation among Sunnis.
In advance of the election, U.S. and Iraqi forces have launched a major offensive against the town of Husaybah, a major way station for foreign fighters entering the country from Syria.
Al-Qaida in Iraq apparently warned the Iraqi government Monday to halt the offensive within 24 hours or see "the earth ... shake beneath their feet."
"Let them know that the price will be very heavy," said an Internet statement purportedly issued by al-Qaida, which has been blamed for some of Iraq's worst terror bombings. The warning's authenticity could not be confirmed.
Despite the threat, the chief of staff of Iraq's army, Gen. Babaker B. Shawkat Zebari, said U.S. and Iraqi forces will expand their operations in Husaybah to include other insurgent strongholds in the Euphrates River valley. He said operations were also planned in Diyala province northeast of Baghdad.
"Intelligence information indicates that terrorists are still coming from Syrian territories," Zebari told the Arabic newspaper Al-Hayat. "This is a very dangerous matter and this is what made us carry out series of attacks against areas on the Iraq-Syria border."
In a statement Monday on the Husaybah fighting, the Marines said American and Iraqi troops were trying to flush out insurgents in mosques, schools and other public buildings but did not say how much of the town had been secured.
The statement said at least 36 insurgents had been killed since the assault began Saturday in the town 200 miles northwest of Baghdad. A Marine commander gave the same figure Sunday night.
Also Monday, the U.S. military said five soldiers from the Army's 75th Ranger Regiment were charged with assault, maltreatment and dereliction of duty during a Sept. 7 incident "in which three detainees were allegedly punched and kicked while awaiting movement to a detention facility." All five were reassigned to administrative duties, the statement said.
The Army said the alleged incident occurred in Baghdad and that the detainees, all men, suffered bruises "caused by striking with a closed and open hand, kicking, and hitting with an object described as a broomstick."
Allegations of prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad gained international notoriety in 2004. Nine Army reservists were convicted in that scandal.
In other developments Tuesday:
- Police found six handcuffed corpses in a water treatment plant, police said.
- One civilian was killed when gunmen opened fire in the notorious Dora district in the south of the capital.
- A car bomb exploded near Mustansiriyah University, killing one person and injuring another.
November 8, 2005: The U.S. Army Special Forces are using a Vietnam era tactic in Iraq, with tribal militias being organized to fight Islamic terrorists. During the 1960s, the Special Forces organized, from a tribal population of about a million people, some 60,000 men to fight the communists. But they encountered the same problem in Iraq that they had to confront in Vietnam. The tribesmen could be motivated to clear the bad guys out of the tribal territory, but the tribesmen were very reluctant to go beyond their own turf. However, the Special Forces found that, by recruiting qualified fighters, who were willing to fight elsewhere, they could put together a force, that, after five years reached a size of 9,300 troops and was willing to go just about anywhere.
While there is concern about the many private militias in Iraq, itâs hard to get rid of them. There are over a hundred tribal organizations in Iraq, and several dozen of them are large enough, and cohesive enough, to form armed militias from adult males. Since just about every household in Iraq has an rifle of some sort, and some of those tribes have over 100,000 members, you can appreciate the extent of the problem. But there are other differences between the Vietnamese and Iraqi tribes. In Vietnam, the tribes were ethnically different from the majority of Vietnamese, having evolved from many different ethnic groups (Malay, Polynesian, Chinese, Lao) that, for one reason or another, preferred to distance themselves from mainstream Vietnamese culture. In Iraq, the tribes are very mainstream, and the Sunni Arab tribes provide the popular support without which the terrorism would not be possible. Many of the Sunni Arab tribes are now switching sides, partly so they can get in on the reconstruction, partly because they donât believe the terrorism will work, and partly because the terrorism is killing so many Iraqis. To that end, the Sunni Arab tribes are willing to mobilize their gunmen and drive the terrorists out of their territory. But, like the Vietnamese tribes (who were willing to drive North Vietnamese troops and South Vietnamese communists out of their neighborhoods), they are not willing to go do the same thing elsewhere.
However, the Iraqi tribes have traditionally been willing to lend their militias to the cause of a strong man. Most recently, that strong man was Saddam Hussein (there were several other Sunni Arab Saddams in the past that also sought, and got, tribal support.) As a result of this, the Sunni Arab (and Shia Arab and Kurdish, and other) tribal militias have to be handled with a great deal of care. One long term objective of the Iraqi government is to weaken the power of the tribal militias. That will take a long time, generations most likely. So for the moment, the help from the Sunni Arab tribes is appreciated, and encouraged, in the short term. But long term, most Iraqis (who do not belong to a well organized tribe with a militia), would like to see the tribal armies fade away.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 09:42 ||
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Militias exist either when their is not greater authority in evidence, or when that greater authority is corrupt. Otherwise, you get what could be called the "two cops on a street corner" effect, in which the real cop tells the militiaman to go home or go to work--that is his (the cop's) corner.
Initially, with a respected greater authority, this turns the militiaman into a "minuteman", who has his gun handy, but just never needs to pick it up. It doesn't take too many years before it becomes rusty and dusty through ill-use. And the same with the militia itself. It stops being a fighting group and devolves into a club, then fades away.
November 8, 2005: In Iraq, U.S. Navy EA-6B electronic warfare aircraft are using their USQ-113 communications jammers to take control of terrorist communications. Department of Defense electronics warfare geeks found ways to use the jammer to do all sorts of things with radio, TV and cell phone signals. Working with psychological warfare and intelligence experts, the EA-6Bs have become key players in counter-terror operations. Thereâs also a version of the USQ-113 that can be plugged into communications and sensor networks, making it easier to use the EA-6Bs in support of ground combat. Another new feature arriving with the upgrade will be the ALQ-219 pod, which allows the EA-6B to jam a small area (a single building or block). Sometimes, the barrage jamming also interferes with friendly communications.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 09:37 ||
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OS or not, I'd much rather see some SPAM about the "Cockran Group" than assist with dissemination of this info. How can it help?
#4
The EA-6B's capabilities are pretty much common knowledge as it has been around for quite some time. This compact and sturdy craft is known as "The Christmas Tree" for the way it can "light up" the entire bandwidth of a RF spectrum analyser's display. Its ability to intercept and spoof any RF band it pleases makes this electronic marvel a valuable workhorse in our ELINT arsenal.
#8
Steve, I'm just an average person here, I don't know alot about military stuff, I'm actually trying to keep abreast of what's going on with my son active military. I've been learning alot here on this site and I thank you for that.
I'm wondering if your comment was said in jest about budgets. I've always felt that all of the branches pull their weight when asked to come to the plate. Or am I wrong here?
Wasn't it the SEAL's that have cleared alot of areas covertly in Afghanistan and Iraq both?
Posted by: Jan ||
11/08/2005 15:38 Comments ||
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#9
No jest about the budget, some of the most brutal infighting goes on in the Pentagon over who gets how much.
Right now, the Army is pulling the heavy load in Irag and is getting pretty much anything they want. Marines, for all intents and purposes, have gotten away from being the Navy's poor children and are in second place. Navy has patrols offshore of all hotspots, plus the carrier air wings, so I put them in third place.
The Air Force, my old service, is running fourth and very nervous about it. No air-to-air combat to speak of in the war so far, so they are worried about losing funding for the F-22. The Army has all those cool RPVs spotting terrorists, so the Air Force types just fly boring circles until they get called to drop a bomb by a Army type. The Air Force keeps trying to take over all the robot planes and insists only officers can fly them. Army told them to piss up a rope and wants Army NCO's to be in charge of calling in airstrikes rather than Air Force FACs.
I could go on about the fight over the A-10, Air Force kept trying to get rid of it, Army loves the support it gives them and threatened to go to Congress over it, but you get my drift.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 16:41 Comments ||
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#10
Jan: It's all requirements based. Like Steve indicated, the ground campaign right now is taking priority which places absolutely necessary future systems like the F-22 Raptor in jeapardy. Its all about current operational requirements and trade offs. The difficult end or long pole in the tent of SOF (USN Seals/US Army SF/USAFSOF) is not so much funding but more often the personnel training piece, which can take years.
#11
Besoeker and Steve, thanks for your time in explaining this info to me, it's much appreciated.
Posted by: Jan ||
11/08/2005 18:17 Comments ||
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#12
Steve the BIG RPVs are flown by the Air Force and they have been over there since before the begining. Yes this rotation of EA-6B probably has more to do with rice bowls that operational effecticeness. It's is smart to give the Navy some opertional flights it's good training for them.
#13
Sarge, I know about Predators and Global Hawaks. I've read tha the AF wanted to take over EVERY RPV program, except the very small ones.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 20:00 Comments ||
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At the recent Army UAV conference the head of Army aviation announced that UAV piloting will move from MI to aviation branch. That's a big sign of how widely they have been embraced by commanders from the squad level up to battalion and above.
They're not waiting for the final tests and deployment of the FCS levels of UAVs either - they're grabbing the Marine-type Ravens down at the squad level and every other model at other echelons that they can get their hands on right now. HUGE success factor, and not just for tactical recon for infantry types.
#15
A-10's - am I the only one who loves em? Does the job, takes fire like an old gunslinger, and gets close enough to see the kills....
who couldn't like em?
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/08/2005 20:08 Comments ||
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It is important to get all services involved in these insurgent live fire exercises if possible, vs waiting and trying to do at night over Duke field, ie., Desert One. None of the services have the market cornered on good ideas, initiative, or valor. It is a team effort, in which everybody brings something to the party. Unfortunately...War is our business, and business is good. One of the second order effects of conflitct, terrible as it may be, is the dividend of experience that it creates for future events or conflicts.
Remember it is a military-industrial complex General Eisenhower warned about. There's plenty of defence contractors working hand in glove with the Generals/Admirals to get the Congresscritters to approve their pet project.
I believe most of the folks working on each project truly believe it is the most important project in the Pentagon and that's part of why they work so hard for its approval. But they also know careers are made and broken, both military and civilian, every time a contract is signed or cancelled.
The Department of Defence is a big organization full of fallible humans. Their work is frequently evaluated in the "real world" of combat maybe once a decade or two decades. Even with the high operations tempo of the last 15 years, since defence requirements declined due to the end of the cold war /sarcasm> there were and continue to be plenty of weapons and logistic problems supporting the troop in the field, whatever branch. And it will always be so.
Like keeping troops healthy and disease free, these topics are not glamorous, but are critical to troops being able to accomplish the tasks given them and return home to tell the tale. That is why there is the old expression amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics.
Your son is part of the finest military organization in history, not because of its achievements in combat, but because it does a better job of selecting, training, equipping, and leading each individual troop into combat. Because it values each troop so highly and becasue each troop knows it, they make the sacrifices necessary to achieve all they have in combat.
Thank you for the sacrifice of worrying every night about your son as he runs the risk of going in harms way to protect us all.
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Gunmen opened fire on a car carrying two lawyers defending some of Saddam Hussein's co-defendants in a trial for crimes against humanity, killing one and wounding the other, police and defense team sources said. Tuesday's attack followed the murder of another defense lawyer in the team, Saadoun al-Janabi, who was shot the day after the trial started in Baghdad last month.
As they say, it's a start
Police and defense team sources said Adil al-Zubeidi was killed in the attack in western Baghdad, while Thamer Hamoud al-Khuzaie was wounded.
Both men were on a team defending Saddam's brother Barzan al-Tikriti and former vice president Taha Yassin Ramadan, legal sources said.
In last month's attack, Janabi, who was representing Awad Bandar, was kidnapped from his office by armed men who identified themselves as employees of the Interior Ministry and murdered on October 20, the day after his court appearance at the start of the trial. Saddam and seven others are facing trial on charges of crimes against humanity but his defense lawyers, fearful for their lives, called on Monday for his trial to be moved abroad. Saddam's trial is due to resume on November 28.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 09:15 ||
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#1
This is not difficult to understand. This is Hussein's own people killing off his defense team. 1st it delays the trail. 2nd if no one will defend Hussein out of concern for thier own safety then there can't be a trial. 3rd it supports the idea of turning over the Hussein trial to an out side court.
#2
Every day Saddam continues to breath provides hope and encouragement for the insurgents. His execution will be a turning point. It cannot happen soon enough.
#8
"I remember once, when I lived in Spokane, Washington, there was a gala event called "A Celebration of Heroes." The headliner was the Gulf War commander Norman Schwarzkopf. Neither the mainstream nor the alternative papers published articles, or even letters to the editor, about Schwarzkopf's war crimes. I think that holding up mass murderers as heroes is as much a problem as holding up the rich."
Ramsey Clark quote - www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html
#11
Imagine Saddam being transported and his car being attacked. I'd feel sorry for the loss of life to the driver and entourage....
It's stupid that so much time has gone by with Saddam not being punished yet.
Man he better not be able to squirrel his way out of this one.
We should have left him in his hole, shooting at anything that tried to pop up out of the hole. Sometimes we're just too nice, Gitmo???
Posted by: Jan ||
11/08/2005 15:21 Comments ||
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Saudi nationals appear to be taking over the Al Qaida network in Iraq. U.S. officials said military intelligence has detected the flow of Saudi financing and senior operatives to Al Qaida in the Al Anbar province. They said Saudis have financed leading Al Qaida operatives in the Faluja area. "It seems that senior Al Qaida operatives in Saudi Arabia have moved their operations to Iraq, where they are well-financed by prominent Saudis who don't want to see a democratic Iraq," an official said.
Saudi nationals have been smuggling Al Qaida recruits into Iraq for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces, officials said. They said Iraqi and U.S. units have increased their search for Saudi operatives and bolstered security along the southern Iraqi border. The Al Qaida network in Iraq has been led by Abu Mussib Al Zarqawi, a Palestinian with Jordanian citizenship.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 08:26 ||
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Find out who the "prominent" Saudis are and let's see some yachting accidents in Monaco and Caan harbors.
#2
Your Royal Highness Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud The Magnificent, son of Sultan bin Abdulaiss Al-Saud, Royal Custodian and keeper of Holy Mosques ............... any comments?
#3
How about.......America seizes Saudi oil fields and gives KSA an ultimatum. Bush declares action will avoid another war while protecting vital energy resources.
#5
Gentlemen, that little idea is an RB original and has been under discussion for almost 2 years. It's referred to as the Republic of Eastern Arabia, lol.
A suicide car bomber killed nine people, including six Iraqi policemen, in the southern Dora district of Baghdad yesterday, police said.
A further 10 people were wounded in the attack, a day after a combined force of Iraqi and US troops entered their third day of operations, which had troops moving from house to house. At least one US Marine and 17 alleged al-Qaeda fighters were killed.
A force of 1000 Iraqi soldiers and 2500 US Marines, sailors and soldiers launched an operation early on Saturday in the far western Iraqi town of Husayba in an attempt to flush al-Qaeda fighters from the region.
The sweep, called Operation Steel Curtain, is aimed at preventing foreign fighters from entering the country.
Japan and Italy were considering pulling their troops out of Iraq within the next eight months and expanding Iraq-related air missions from Kuwait, the Yomiuri Shimbun newspaper said.
Meanwhile, Saddam Husseinâs defence lawyers yesterday called for his trial to be moved abroad to protect their lives after increasing threats since the murder of a colleague, Saadoun al-Janabi.
A statement by the lawyers for Saddam said the defence team had received no word from the court or the government guaranteeing their safety since the murder of al-Janabi, a day after his court appearance at the start of Saddamâs trial on October 19.
The government denied involvement in the murder and said it would increase security for the trial.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:43 ||
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A suicide bomber plowed a car loaded with explosives into an American checkpoint here on Monday evening, killing four American soldiers in the single deadliest suicide bombing against an American target in more than four months.
The bomber struck the checkpoint around 5 p.m. on Monday on a road in southern Baghdad, said Specialist Ricardo Branch of the Third Infantry Division, the Army unit that patrols the capital. The military declined to say precisely where the attack took place, or how the bomber managed to penetrate the security barriers that often shield such locations.
In Washington, the Pentagon announced planned troop rotations that would leave a force of at least 92,000 in Iraq through 2008, though officials emphasized that the numbers could change.
The suicide attack was the largest since June, when a suicide car bomber drove into an American convoy in Falluja, a rebellious city west of Baghdad, killing at least six people. Before that, the most lethal attack came in the spring of 2004, when a car bomber killed eight soldiers, also in southern Baghdad.
Suicide car bombings against American soldiers are rare, and the attack underscored the increasing skills of insurgents here. Military commanders acknowledge that insurgents are now staging more sophisticated attacks, but say troops have responded to the changes.
Of the more than 2,000 American deaths in Iraq to date, most have been caused by soldiers' vehicles hitting remotely detonated roadside bombs. Suicide bombers have tended to strike so-called soft targets, like mosques and markets, where security is virtually nonexistent.
The attack came as American marines, assisted by Iraqi troops, fought insurgents for a third day in a major sweep in the town of Husayba, an insurgent gateway into Iraq on the Syrian border. Thousands of troops scoured about 350 city blocks, killing numerous insurgents and punching nearly to the eastern edge of town.
Since May, the American command has conducted at least 10 sweeps of towns along the Euphrates River in Anbar Province, a heavily Sunni Arab area that has been an entry point for foreign militants in Iraq. This summer, the military began setting up a permanent presence in some of the towns, and spokesmen have said they will do the same in Husayba.
Several marines were wounded in fighting on Monday - officials did not release the exact number - but none were killed. Only one marine has been killed in the operation, officials said. Ground resistance was light, with the marines coming under only sporadic fire from AK-47 assault rifles, rocket-propelled grenades and at least one hand grenade.
In three days of battles in Husayba, American and Iraqi troops have killed 36 people believed to be insurgents, the military said. It said it had received no reports of civilian casualties. Almost all Husayba's estimated 20,000 residents fled in the face of the American assault.
The terrorist group Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia threatened to stage major attacks should the offensive continue. In an Internet posting, the group's spokesman, Abu Maisra al-Iraqi, set a 24-hour ultimatum for troops to stop the operation. Otherwise, he said, "they will face everything bad from us, and the Mesopotamia ground will shake under their legs."
"They should know that the price of blood that was spent will be very expensive," the posting said.
It was unclear whether the attack on the American checkpoint was part of that pledge.
There were other attacks in Baghdad on Monday. A mortar crashed into the busy Mustanseriya Square in central Baghdad, killing five people and injuring a sixth, a Ministry of Interior official said. In southern Baghdad, a homemade bomb tore into an Iraqi police patrol, killing two officers, the official added.
North of the city, an American soldier was killed when a homemade bomb hit his vehicle, according to a military statement.
Near Kirkuk, a suicide car bomber attacked an Iraqi checkpoint, killing two soldiers.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:40 ||
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Militants loyal to al-Qaeda in Iraq threatened to sharply intensify their campaign of violence unless government and US forces end a major offensive near the Syrian border, in an internet statement posted on Monday.
The statement also promised to destroy the homes of all Iraqi soldiers and government employees in response to recent comments by defence minister Saadun al-Dulaimi warning that those who sheltered insurgents in their homes would be considered targets.
"The organisation has decided to give the apostate government and its (US) master 24 hours to end their campaign against the Sunni people.
"After that they will only see from us the worst and something that's going to make the earth tremble under their feet," warned the statement signed in the name of spokesperson Abu Maisara al-Iraqi.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:35 ||
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#1
A conditional threat? These jerks are beginning to sound desperate. Better turn up the heat, and leave it on high as long as it takes!
#7
Militants loyal to al-Qaeda in Iraq threatened to sharply intensify their campaign of violence unless government and US forces end a major offensive near the Syrian border, in an internet statement posted on Monday.
[Geoffrey Rush Pirate Voice]
We are disinclined to acquiesce to your request. It means... No.
[/Geoffrey Rush Pirate Voice]
BAGHDAD â The Iraq Army has launched its first operation using a force of several battalions. Officials said Operation Steel Curtain was testing the Iraq Army's ability to launch battalion-size missions. They said the operation along the border with Syria was the first time that several Iraqi battalions were fighting alongside U.S. forces.
Iraq has about 120 combat battalions and a total of more than 211,000 soldiers and police, Middle East Newsline reported. In Anbar, Iraq has operated nearly two divisions, with 10 infantry battalions. "Operation Steel Curtain marks the first large-scale employment of multiple battalion-sized units of Iraqi army forces in combined operations with coalition forces in the last year," the U.S. military said. "This is the largest concentration of Iraqi Army forces to take part in an operation in Al Anbar this year."
The military said the Iraqi force also included platoon scouts recruited from the Qaim region. The scouts have been embedded in combat units and were "helping to identify insurgent strong points and areas known to contain these homemade bombs."
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/08/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Interesting choice of words. "Multi-battalion" sounds like "independent" battalions. However, if they are organized together, that is, conducting combined operations in a coordinated fashion, then they are a "brigade".
This is important, because brigade operations are very, very different from those of independent battalions. They take a great deal of skill to pull off successfully, and are a major stepping stone to having fully functional organic divisions.
For years, the US Army used the organic division task organization, which is optimal for Cold War conventional conflicts. However, the Rumsfeld conversion has re-ordered the Army to function as organic brigades--designed to fight an entirely different kind of conflict.
So how are we setting up the task organization of the Iraqi Army? We have already conducted two division-level maneuvers to train Iraqi officers in division operations. This training is priceless, as no other country but Israel in the whole region has the skill to field an organic division--their divisions are paper only.
And yet, this latest operation points to establishing brigade-sized operational zones within the country. There doesn't yet seem to be any task ordering high than battalion level, which is confusing. Are they intentionally trying to deceive about the level of Iraqi army organization, or are the Iraqis truly not yet able to function as organic brigades?
I doubt the latter, as with as many battalions as they have, and as many skilled US trainers, it seems unreasonable.
#2
Hey, 'moose, dont forget that this was written or edited by a journalist. On average these guys neither know nor care about the difference between a BN and a BDE. Its a "just a bunch of fools dressed alike" to your typical J-school grad.
Which, although frustrating, suits me fine in the OPSEC sense.
Posted by: N guard ||
11/08/2005 11:28 Comments ||
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Anonymoose
Brigades and divisions are not merely N batalions or regiments: they are combined arms entities while a multi-batalion force useually means mostly pure infantry or pure armor. A brigade is more capable but also requires more skill than a "pure" force of equivalent numbers.
A suicide bomber blew up his vehicle at a checkpoint south of Baghdad and killed four American soldiers Monday, the military said. The suicide attack came as U.S. and Iraqi troops battled al-Qaida-led militants for a third day in Husaybah, a town on the Syrian border that the military describes as a major entry point for foreign fighters. One Marine has died there, the U.S. command said Monday.
Al-Qaida in Iraq warned the Iraqi government to halt the offensive in Husaybah within 24 hours or see "the earth ... shake beneath their feet."
"Let them know that the price will be very heavy," said an Internet statement purportedly issued by al-Qaida, which has been blamed for some of Iraq's worst terror bombings.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/08/2005 00:00 ||
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Five U.S. soldiers from the 75th Ranger Regiment have been accused of beating detainees in Iraq, the U.S. military said Monday. "The allegations stem from an incident on September 7 in which three detainees were allegedly punched and kicked by the soldiers as they were awaiting movement to a detention facility," according to a news release from the U.S. military. The charges were filed November 5 after an investigation into the alleged abuse, the statement said.
The announcement came on a day when President Bush told reporters that the United States does not condone torture. "Our country is at war and our government has the obligation to protect the American people," Bush said in Panama City, Panama. "There is an enemy that lurks and plots and plans and wants to hurt America again. So you bet we'll aggressively pursue them. But we will do so under the law." Bush was responding to questions about reports of secret U.S. prisons in eastern Europe. The White House's opposition to a Senate measure banning torture has also faced criticism from some in the president's own Republican Party.
Our soldiers deserve better than a continuation of this insulting stuck-on-stupid media drivel. A load kak from the likes of liberal, lawyer, bleeding heart fagots. RLTW, always have, always will. (Thats Rangers Lead The Way) Hope I've not used too harsh a level of rhetoric or offended some parasite lawyer. I'm not much on gentility or mincing words for whinning squaters. I take Rant to mean just that, Rant. Cyber execute me if you will, but "Shoot straight you bastards."
My opinion's kind of different. There are times when torture is called for, despite what many who would prefer to believe otherwise may think. I don't think it should be routine; drugs and psychology â think LTC West â are more reliable and they don't leave bruises. But there's a difference between torture and rough handling, something else that escapes the warm milk crowd. It sounds like this is a case of the latter. Slapping prisoners around isn't usually a good or an honorable thing to do, though there are occasions when it can be called for, usually with a group's alpha male, occasionally in response to a provocation. Thumping them for fun is a different matter yet again. Those who do it are bully boys and should be tossed out of the military â think Graner and his pals at Abu Ghraib. It's not conduct I'd normally expect from Rangers, so I'll wait until the facts come out.
#2
All after "My opinion" is an addendum, to which I concur. Sergeants Graner and England were leadership failures at the officer level. "Men of the ranks are cunning and devious and bear close watching." This does not make them bad soldiers, just makes minding the store - or prison more critical. Blaming rankers is shameful and cowardly. Exercising effective leadership means stepping to the rear and allowing the soldier to take credit for success. It also means stepping immediately to the front to accept responsibility for failure.
#4
don't know why that was repeated. Ranger tactics just like thier missions are completely differnt than that of the 'legs'. These men don't react off cuff.
Israelâs chief of staff Lt.-Gen Dan Halutz finally admits Palestinians have smuggled shoulder-launched anti-air Strela missiles from Sinai to Gaza â confirming DEBKAfileâs reporting from mid-September. He was briefing the Knesset foreign affairs and security committee.
DEBKAfileâs military sources add that Palestinian terrorists were recently sighted testing the positions of these missiles for targeting Israeli aircraft. According to our counter-terror sources, the al Qaeda cells barricaded in the caves of central Sinai mountain peaks have managed to shoot down more than one Egyptian helicopter trying to chase them out of their hideouts. They used missiles from their substantial supply of Strelas. In one of these attacks, 30 Egyptian commandos lost their lives.
Today, Palestinian and al Qaeda terrorists are jointly capable of downing both Israeli air force planes flying over Gaza and Egyptian helicopters supposed to police the Philadelphi border route. Monday, Nov. 7, AMANâs research chief Big.-Gen Yossi Kupwasser again affirmed a massive Al Qaedaâs presence in Sinai when he briefed a Knesset committee.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 09:04 ||
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#1
nice - massive retaliation - clearing miles of Paleo "civilization" from airport proximity when they pop one off
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/08/2005 10:07 Comments ||
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Thats why God made the AN/TPQ-36 Fire Finder. Go ahead muzzie faggot, make that gunner's day.
TEL AVIV â The Israel Army said more than 80 percent of Kassam-class, short-range missiles fired by Palestinian gunners from the Gaza Strip have not reached Israel. Instead, the missiles land in Palestinian communities or fields in the Gaza Strip, causing injuries and damage.
"They seem to have a problem with the material and components they are using," an Israeli military source said. "It could be that they are using aging propellants that are no longer reliable."
Might be the sub-standard stuff the Israelis have been ... oh, we shouldn't talk about that.
Over the last two weeks, the army said, Palestinian gunners fired 40 Kassam missiles toward Israel, Middle East Newsline reported. In all but seven launches, the missiles landed in the Gaza Strip.
What's that German word again?
Palestinian Authority officials agree. They said at least 75 percent of Kassam and mortar attacks have landed in the Gaza Strip. On Sunday, a Kassam missile slammed into a home in Dir Al Balah in the eastern Gaza Strip. A police officer who lived in the house was injured. In mid-2005, the home of a former PA minister was struck by a Kassam missile. Three of his children were injured in an attack denied by all Palestinian insurgency groups.
Israeli military sources said Hamas has no longer taken responsibility for Kassam strikes in an effort to avoid a Palestinian backlash. The sources said Israeli artillery strikes against fields used by Palestinian gunners have hampered Kassam launches. "Kassam squads work very hastily because they know we will attack within seconds," a military source said. "So, they make mistakes and have fired from areas out of range of Israeli territory."
'cause in the end, Mahmoud's a coward.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/08/2005 00:04 ||
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#1
Good to see most of the missiles are landing on target...
#6
On the slight chance that these savages didn't know just how many of their rockets are landing short, perhaps this should have been kept quiet?
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
11/08/2005 9:50 Comments ||
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"So, they make mistakes and have fired from areas out of range of Israeli territory."
I ain't standin' around waitin' for no damn heli-zapping counter battery fire!
Posted by: MissleLaunching B. Hard ||
11/08/2005 10:21 Comments ||
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They don't know which direction Israel is. Okay. Who's gonna tell 'em they point their pointy little heads in the wrong direction at prayer times? These mooks are priceless and inept beyond words.
#9
We'll, it's really the fault of the Jooooos. If they wouldn't shoot back when fired upon, the Palestinians wouldn't be so nervous and could aim better.
I nominate the Palestinians for a group Darwin award.
#12
Please Ms. Trailing Wife don't attempt to fire off your tube. Rocket motor building is best left to experts. I fear many young folk in Gaza will lose eye-balls and digits while trying to save a few shekels (than's Jew money) on rocket motors. It is wise to buy from an old established firm.
Posted by: Vern Estes ||
11/08/2005 17:47 Comments ||
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Mr. Estes, I wouldn't dream of actually making such a thing -- Daddy was Haganah's pet biochemist before 1948, and that's quite enough of a donation from my gene line. And the shekels are Israeli currency; Israel's Arab citizens are permitted to use it, too.
#14
Yup, they call it sugar baby or rocket candy. Just sugar and pottasium nitrate making this involves melting the ingredients and mixing. As you might expect this can lead to work accidents. Now the palis have figured out how to do this cold process using gasoline or kerosine to make a slurry. Think October Sky when they went to get moonshine.
Now us rocket people like stuff that blows up real good too, but we do keep an eye out for people that don't fit the mold so to speak. See: http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/misc/aftclosure.aspx for a case where the bad guys contacyed some rocket geeks for help. Ny guess is the IDF converted some of these folks to catfood.
Posted by: bruce ||
11/08/2005 19:10 Comments ||
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#15
the ultimate downfall of the Paleo deathcult - we import attys who sue for damages to their clients' houses, properties, etc.
:-)
I can dream...
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/08/2005 19:54 Comments ||
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Fascinating, bruce. Thanks for the info! I hereby do solemnly swear not to mix Crest/Sensitive with sugar in my kitchen sink. ;-)
ISN SECURITY WATCH (08/11/05) â Thailandâs Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Tuesday said his government would go on the offensive against Muslim militants who carried out a series of deadly attacks overnight in the countryâs southern provinces. âMany were arrested. We have to continue our work,â Shinawatra told reporters. âNext time itâs our turn to be more offensive.â
Five people, including two militants, were killed in several coordinated attacks in the southern province of Yala, and one person was killed in the neighboring province of Pattani, late on Monday and early on Tuesday. The managing director of the Thongtin Thai newspaper was shot dead in neighboring Narathiwat province, a senior police source told ISN Security Watch. Abduloh Mama, 37, was killed by gunmen in the border town of Sungai Ko-lok, in Narathiwat, according to the police source.
The attacks took place after the prime minister had attended a Buddhist religious ceremony he chaired at Khao Kong temple in Narathiwatâs Muang district. During the visit to Khao Kong, Shinawatra announced that all temples in the three southern provinces hit by violence would have warning sirens installed and monks would be allowed to carry walkie-talkies. âNew security measures to prevent attacks on Buddhist monks in those provinces would include installing warning sirens in all of the 197 temples in Narathiwat, Yala, and Pattani,â the prime minister said.
According to a report carried by the Associated Press, Shinawatra on Tuesday claimed that Islamic insurgents from southern Thailand had held anti-government meetings in Malaysia - an assertion that could further raise tensions between the neighbors. Shinawatra told reporters he had received reports from people who had attended such a meeting in northern Malaysiaâs Kelantan state, and that âduring the meeting, they [Muslim insurgents] lashed out at me.â Relations between the two countries were strained recently by Malaysiaâs reluctance to repatriate 131 Thai Muslims who had fled into its territory.
Last month, Malaysiaâs Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar told reporters that the Malaysian authorities would not forcibly repatriate the 131 displaced Thai Muslims. âWe cannot force and pack the 131 people, as there are certain international norms that we have to abide [by] when people ask for refuge in our country,â Syed Hamid said. âThe migrants will have to decide on their own if they want to return home,â he added.
The 131 Thai Muslims say they fled to Malaysia because they feared for their lives in Thailand's restive south. However, Thailand suspected that some of those refugees were insurgents responsible for violent attacks in the country.
On Monday, Thailandâs Foreign Minister Kantathi Suphamongkhon rejected an appeal for self-rule made last week by the separatist Muslim group Patani United Liberation Organization (PULO). The PULO issued the statement from its office in Sweden last week. The group called for self-government in Thailandâs Muslim-majority south and warned that the conflict could degenerate into a war between religions.
âWeâre not a federal system. Autonomy in that sense is something that is not part of our system,â Kantathi said in an interview with Agence France Presse. âItâs a unified system that we have. We donât have the concept of autonomy within our constitution,â Kantathi added.
Kantathi was also asked if any foreign extremists from Indonesia, Malaysia or elsewhere with links to Osama bin Ladenâs al-Qaida network were involved in the unrest. The minister said: âWe have no indication so far.â âOf course, people know one another sometimes. But there is no indication of any foreign terrorism involvement in the situation,â he said, adding that the trouble in the south was âan internal problem in Thailandâ.
Francesca Lawe-Davies, a Southeast Asia Analyst with the International Crisis Group (ICG) in Jakarta, Indonesia, told ISN Security Watch Tuesday she did not think there was anything particularly new about the Thai governmentâs response to the PULOâs appeal for autonomy. âThe Thai government has always vehemently rejected any suggestion of autonomy for the majority Malay southern provinces. Beyond the fear of âBalkanizationâ, the word âautonomyâ, for which there is no equivalent in Thai, is often misunderstood as meaning independence, so there are semantic complications as well,â Lawe-Davies said.
When asked about Shinawatra's visits to the restive southern region, Lawe-Davies said while it was important for the prime minister to demonstrate that he was engaged with the problem and prioritizing it, the visits could cause frustration for locals, âbecause he [Shinawatra] comes under heavy military escort, with mobile phone signals jammed in the areas he visits to thwart mobile phone-detonated bombs, whereas locals remain vulnerable to militant attacksâ. âThere are no easy fixes, and this problem is likely to be with us for a long time, but focusing on improving intelligence collection, improving relations with Malay Muslim villagers, and trying to understand and respond to the political grievances from which perpetrators of violence are drawing strength, is likely to have a greater impact over time,â Lawe-Davies added.
Over 1,100 people have died in the Muslim-majority southern provinces of Thailand in 21 months of shootings, bombings, and arson attacks.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 09:33 ||
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#1
Don't take turns Thaksin, start kicking ass and don't stop until you reach KL. Ignore the super-lib ankle-biters. And screw making deal with Malaysia, fool, they've set you up and will grind you down. Your people are dying, you PR whore. Help them or resign.
#2
I have Thai friends who live in Ao Nang in Krabi with the nicest places/people on the map. It is not a million miles from Yala and Pattani so I hope Thaksin stops the militants, before they start trouble in the other Southern provinces.
Posted by: Wayne Rooney ||
11/08/2005 11:46 Comments ||
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ABU Sayyaf commander Radullan Sahiron is hiding in Sulu province, Armed Forces of the Philippines Chief of Staff General Generoso Senga said Monday.
This developed as the man police mistook for Sahiron threatened to sue policemen for arresting him over the weekend.
"Sahiron is in Sulu. His mass base is there. His bailiwick is there," Senga said in a chance interview with reporters in Camp Aguinaldo military headquarters.
On Saturday, police arrested Anthony Gara in Titay town, believing he was the one-armed Abu Sayyaf commander who led the kidnapping of foreign tourists from a diving resort in Malaysia's Sipdadan Island in 2000.
Police realized their blunder after an informant close to the bandit group noticed that Gara was missing his left arm. Sahiron's right arm, not his left, was amputated.
Philippine National Police (PNP) Chief Director General Arturo Lomibao has apologized for falsely announcing Sahiron's arrest, calling it an "unintentional oversight."
He said that the man police intelligence officials apprehended was only a "look-alike" of the Abu Sayyaf commander.
"My family will not let them off with just an apology. We are seeking help so we can file charges," Gara said in a radio interview.
Gara said that at around 4 p.m. Saturday, four uniformed policemen without name plates forcibly took him while he was about to enter his house.
"They loaded me inside a van like a pig. They hit me in the head three times," he said, adding that while in detention, his eyes were covered with packaging tape.
"Maybe they [police] noticed that my arm was amputated, that's why they arrested me. They said my face was similar [to Sahiron's]," Gara said.
Senga said police arrested the Sahiron "look-alike" without
coordinating with the military. "Based on my talk with Southern Command commander Lieutenant General Adan, it was an independent operation."
President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo was the first to announce the "arrest" of Sahiron in her program over government television station NBN.
Senga confirmed the alleged arrest late Saturday evening, but he quoted information from police intelligence.
Sahiron, who is believed to be the Abu Sayyaf's chief of staff, is wanted for his alleged involvement in the kidnapping of 21 Western tourists and Asian workers from a Malaysian resort in April 2000. The hostages were freed after payment of huge ransom believed to have been financed by Libya.
Sahiron and current Abu Sayyaf chief Khadaffy Janjalani are among five of the group's leaders wanted by the United States.
The U.S. government has offered a five-million-dollar reward for information leading to their arrest and conviction, and has placed Abu Sayyaf on its list of terrorist organizations. The Philippine government has also raised a reward for their capture.
Washington has deployed American troops to the southern Philippines to train and arm Filipino soldiers battling Muslim militants and provided covert assistance in one major effort to capture Sahiron on southern Jolo island early this year.
The mistaken arrest showed the difficulty of the war on terrorism, Lomibao said.
"The fight against terrorism is a long, tedious and emotional battle," he said. "Along the way, there are hits and misses.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 00:59 ||
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#1
And Sulu is gay. Trekkie reference.
Posted by: Fde Fda ||
11/08/2005 3:10 Comments ||
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Heh. Gives new meaning to 'hiding in Sulu', doesn't it?
Iran sent letters protesting illegal overflights by two unmanned American aircraft that crashed in Iran in recent months, documents circulated at the United Nations on Monday showed. Iran's deputy U.N. ambassador Mehdi Danesh-Yazdi asked the U.N. Security Council on Oct. 26 to circulate two letters protesting "the violation of the territory and airspace of Iran by two American unmanned aircrafts." The two letters, which were circulated Monday, warned that "the government of the United States of America will be responsible for the consequences of any recurrence of its unlawful acts."
Gonna take some hostages, are you?
Posted by: Fred ||
11/08/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Quit aiding the terrorism in Iraq and we will quit crashing our UAVs in Iran.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/08/2005 1:17 Comments ||
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#2
I hereby declare that Iran is the new testing range for the United States Military. All branches will conduct live fire exercises in the new area and new weapons will also be tested there.
#3
I don't know if we want to piss them off. They might start infiltrating fighters in Iraq. Or maybe fund terrorist groups in Lebanon and Paleo-land. Or maybe even take over our embassy.
#7
Oh, to be standing on the windward border of Iran with a case of mylar balloons and a tank of helium! Not that I'm trying to stir up trouble or anything.
The fifth and latest edition of the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC) magazine al-Jamaâah was distributed over the forums on October 21-22. As expected, outside the customary ideological literature, much of the issue is dedicated to the question of the amnesty referendum, which took place on September 29, and which registered overwhelming public support. The commentary on the news concentrates on what the GSPC sees as the fabrication of the referendum results and the government-directed media coverage. In a declaration entitled La Silma bidun Islam (No Peace without Islam), also issued separately on September 27 on the movementsâ website (www.salafia.ne1.net), the leader of the GSPC Abdelmalek Droukdel, known as Abu Musab Abd al-Wadoud, dismissed the referendum as a waste of time. âAlgeria is not in need of a charter for peace and national reconciliation,â he maintained, âbut in need of a charter for Islamâ without which âthere will be no peace and no reconciliation.â In the body of the statement, Abd al-Wadoud enumerated some of the GSPC grievances with the Algerian state and its âunending list of treacheriesâ:
⢠Granting permission to the U.S. to establish military bases in the south of the country
⢠Selling off oil and gas resources to multinationals
⢠Enthusiastic embracing the Greater Middle East project in order to win American approval
⢠Joining NATO, with the Algerian army co-operating with colonial forces
⢠Enthusiastic embracing of membership of the Francophonie (organisation of French speaking states)
⢠Repealing the family law âin response to the call for moral degradationâ
⢠Abolishing the faculty of Islamic law, as a first stage in the Christianization of Algerian schools, and granting licenses to the setting up of schools that openly flout the basic beliefs of the Umma.
Abd al-Wadoud also reappears in the online magazine in an interview where he deals with two interesting issues arising out of the amnesty: the role of former GSPC leader Hassan Hattab and claims that the earlier amnesty, promulgated in January 2000, has actually scored success for the government. Reiterating the GSPC motto âno discussion, no compromise and no truce with the Apostates,â Abd al-Wadoud reassured the readership of the full commitment of the GSPC to jihad, and that relations with Hassan Hattab had been cut since his resignation and his âprostration to the Tyrants.â There was, therefore, no influence from this man on their political positions, and the reports of his having brought over with him many penitent mujahideen were mere âmedia propaganda.â As to the touted success of the 2000 amnesty in that the number of attacks being reduced, âlegitimacy does not depend on the number of followers.â In addition, those mujahideen who are now returning from the hills to accept the amnesty âonly took to the hills for partisan political reasons, which split and divided⊠their presence in the hills did not remain long.â
The claim of decline in jihadist activity, for Abd al-Wadoud, is similarly false: âhow can you interpret the numerous strikes of the mujahideen abroad [referring to the attack on Mauritania]? Or the fighting operations north, south, east and west in the country?â The issue of communications, legitimate spokesmen and unity of message continues to dog the GSPC. The publication of the al-Jamaâah magazine itself demonstrates this, since Terrorism Focus located the text circulating on one of the jihadi forums not specifically connected with the Algerian jihad (www.tajdeed.org.uk) âthe GSPC site (www.salafia.ne1.net) having been âdisbanded for good by the webmaster of NE1.net.â
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 10:53 ||
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COLOMBO - Police in the Sri Lankan capital Colombo have found an explosives-filled jacket usually worn by suicide bombers raising fears of an assassination bid ahead of next weekâs elections, a top official said on Tuesday. Police Deputy Inspector-General Pujith Jayasundara said an anonymous caller alerted police to the âcomplete suicide jacketâ abandoned along a lane in Colomboâs residential and commercial area of Kollupitiya.
âThis is a complete suicide jacket that is usually worn by Tiger suicide bombers. We found it late last night after a telephone call received by the police emergency unit,â Jayasundara told AFP. âThe jacket was found within a few kilometres (miles) of the prime ministerâs residence and the homes of several other VIPs,â Jayasundara told AFP. âIt may have been meant for a suicide assassination attempt.â
Tamil Tiger rebels are known for their trade-mark suicide bombings but it was not immediately clear if the jacket was the work of the rebel Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE). Jayasundara said the police were investigating. He said they were also probing the surrender of a man who claimed to have been associated with the Tamil Tigers. It was not clear if the discovery of the suicide jacket and the surrender were linked.
Police and military officials have expressed fears that there could be an escalation of violence in the run up to the November 17 presidential election. Previous poll campaigns have been marred by violence. Government forces and Tamil Tiger rebels have been observing a truce since February 2002, but despite the ceasefire some 190 people have been killed in violence linked to the islandâs drawn-out ethnic conflict this year.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 10:16 ||
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Haven't you heard. Its going to be the next big thing in the Paris fashion shows. They're going to create quite an impression on the runways. Burkas are so last year. Need to get those Sri Lankan shops hopping early for the Walmart knockoffs to be on shelves by spring.
#3
Sounds more like a deliberate attempt to sow fear, I can't think of any other reason to call the police and tell them where to find it unless you intended to cause disruption without actualy going BOOM yourself.
We need to know if the press was also notified, My guess is yes, otherwise how did it get in the news.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
11/08/2005 13:28 Comments ||
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#4
Sounds more like a deliberate attempt to sow fear
GUWAHATI, India - At least 21 people, mostly women, were wounded when a man threw a grenade into a crowded market in Indiaâs restive northeastern state of Manipur on Tuesday, police said. âSix of the injured are in critical condition,â a police officer told Reuters by phone from the state capital Imphal.
The grenade was thrown by one of two men riding a motorcycle.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 10:01 ||
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The Global Islamic Media Front, the voice of al Qaeda on the internet, has revealed its latest threat which it identified as Rakan bin Williams, who would wreck havoc worldwide. The name refers to an English convert to Islam.
Al Qaedaâs strategy âwill depend on surprise such as when near simultaneous attacks were carried out in Morocco and Turkey. Al Qeada's aim was to target the border between Europe and the Muslim world, east and west, so let this serve as a lesson to the entire west; we have arrived at your borders and no one will be able to stop usâ, the group said on the internet.
The British Sun newspaper indicated last week that al Qaeda was recruiting English men and pointed out six English-language websites affiliated with al Qaeda had published material encouraging Europeans to enlist and undergo military training.
Concurring with Prime Minister Tony Blair, who said, âthe rules of the game have changed after the July 7 London bombingsâ, al Qaeda warned on the al Firdaws forum, âDo not rejoice Blair as you will not be able to follow or halt the movements or stop al Qaedaâs new soldiers Rakan bin Williams.â
âAl Qaedaâs new soldiers were born in Europe of European and Christian parents. They studied in your schools. They prayed in your churches and attended Sunday mass. They drank alcohol, ate pork and oppressed Muslims, but al Qaeda has embraced them so they have converted to Islam in secret and absorbed the philosophy of al Qaeda and swore to take up arms after their brothers. They are currently roaming the streets of Europe and the United States planning and observing in preparation for upcoming attacks,â the group said in a threatening analysis.
The Jihadi website also mentioned al Qaedaâs past successful surprise attacks, such as the Madrid bombings on 11th March 2001 planned and executed by men of North African origin which brought about the withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq . Osama bin Laden had publicly rescinded on a truce with Europe , While Europe was expecting an attack in Italy , al Qaeda targeted an unexpected place- London- in July 2005, the message added.
Written by an imaginary person, Rakan bin Williams, the analysis of the groupâs strategy said, âThey restricted the Arabs and were attacked by those from Pakistan . You will not be able to find any solution because our next soldier cannot be put under surveillance or restrict his movement or arrest him.â
The Global Islamic Media Front publishes material by Islamic militants worldwide and is known as al Qaedaâs mouthpiece.
http://www.al-farouq.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3769
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/08/2005 08:24 ||
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#1
Rakan bin Williams hasn't made a good film since...Alladin. Just not funny any more. Not surprised he's turning to drama.
#3
Oh dear. Now the police are going to have to start oppressing white men with scraggly attempts at good muslim beards, especially the ones wearing burkas. Would the rest of you gentlemen please shave and wear suits, to make the newest bad guys easier to pick out?
#4
It almost seems as if they are goading the west into expelling the Islamic populations. Yeah that might create more angry muslims but wouldn't it be wiser to lay low and let demographics take their course?
Pirates who attacked a cruise ship off the coast of Somalia grinned as they aimed grenade-launchers and machine guns at the deck and staterooms, some passengers said Monday, recounting the ordeal after safely docking in this Indian Ocean archipelago.
"Huh huh! We're gonna kill people! Huh huh!"
The ship escaped by shifting to high speed and changing course, and the cruise line said Monday the crew also used a sonic weapon, which blasts earsplitting noise in a directed beam, as it tried to ward off the attack.
"Holy shit! I mean, Allahu akbar!"
"I tell you, it was a very frightening experience," Charles Supple, of Fiddletown, Calif., said by phone. The retired physician and World War II veteran said he started to take a photograph of a pirate craft, and "the man with the bazooka aimed it right at me and I saw a big flash. Needless to say, I dropped the camera and dived. The grenade struck two decks above and about four rooms further forward," he said. "I could tell the guy firing the bazooka was smiling."
Posted by: Fred ||
11/08/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
I struggle with the concept that there is an overwhelming need to flee from those type of pirates. How about an emergency backing bell? People that feel the need to carry a handgun in an SUV lack immagination. CHUM THE BASTARDS and they will cease to smirk .. unless their khat is truly high quality stuff.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/08/2005 8:07 Comments ||
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#2
Sonic weapon =>Horn. must be a reporter getting paid by the word.....
#3
yesterday I tried to post an article on the Sonic weapon - 150db focussed - started out with the USN after the Cole incident, adopted by many cruise ships. More than a horn
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/08/2005 15:40 Comments ||
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#4
Ima testing a short range depilatory weapon.
/Burma Shaveâ¢
Posted by: Mo Hair ||
11/08/2005 18:13 Comments ||
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A suicide bomber tried to kill the governor of a volatile southern Afghan province by blowing up an explosives-filled vehicle as the official was going to work, officials said. A man who said he was a spokesman for loyalists of the Taliban government ousted in 2001 claimed responsibility for the attack on behalf of the hardliners, who are waging an insurgency.
"We dunnit and we're glad!"
The attacker detonated the explosives as Helmand governor Sher Mohammad left his vehicle to enter his office in the provincial capital Lashkar Gah, his spokesman Mohammad Wali said on Monday. The governor was not hurt. The bomber survived but lost both his arms and both his legs, Wali said.
I'm so happy...
Intelligence officers were trying to get as much information as possible from the man "before he dies," including his nationality, Wali said. "He's an elderly man with a shaved face and big moustache," Wali said. Interior ministry spokesman Yousuf Stanizai said the bomber was a foreign national. "He has been badly injured and is in coma at the hospital," Stanizai said in the capital Kabul.
My heart bleeds.
But purported Taliban spokesman Yousf Ahmadi telephoned AFP and said the attacker was an Afghan national from Helmand. "The suicide attack was carried out by one of our mujahedin (holy warriors). His name was Salahuddin and he was 55 years old," he said from an unknown location. He said the attack was aimed at US military forces based near the governor's office.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/08/2005 00:00 ||
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HT to Drudge The crew of a luxury cruise ship used a sonic weapon that blasts earsplitting noise in a directed beam while being attacked by a gang of pirates off Africa this weekend, the cruise line said Monday. The Seabourn Spirit had a Long Range Acoustic Device, or LRAD, installed as a part of its defense systems, said Bruce Good, a spokesman for Miami-based Seabourn Cruise Line. The Spirit was about 100 miles off Somalia when pirates fired rocket-propelled grenades and machine guns as they tried to get onboard.
The subsidiary of Carnival Corp. was investigating whether the weapon was successful in warding off the pirates, he said. The ship's captain also changed its course, shifted into high speed and headed out into the open sea to elude the pirates, who were in two small boats, he said. Device maker American Technology Corp. said earsplitting "bangs" were directed by trained security personnel toward the pirates. That, combined with ship maneuvers, caused the attackers to leave the area, the company said.
The LRAD is a so-called "non-lethal weapon" developed for the U.S. military after the 2000 attack on the USS Cole off Yemen as a way to keep operators of small boats from approaching U.S. warships. The military version is a 45-pound, dish-shaped device that can direct a high-pitched, piercing tone with a tight beam. Neither the LRAD's operators or others in the immediate area are affected. American Technology, based in San Diego, compares its shrill tone to that of smoke detectors, only much louder. It can be as loud as about 150 decibels, while smoke alarms are about 80 to 90 decibels. The devices have been deployed on commercial and naval vessels worldwide since summer 2003, the company said. exxccceellennnt. Now look for the balance-deprived scurvy dogs with blood coming from their ears. Hang em
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/08/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Lol, agreed, Frank. I hope it hurts like hell and they never recover.
Kudos to Carnival, the Captain, and crew. *applause*
#3
Lol, I just watched Episode 15 of Brainiacs and they had a test of what is called brown noise / brown note. It is a frequency (seems to be a dispute about the precise one) which, um, relaxes / stirs / loosens the bowels, lol.
The Brainiac page: brown noise
(Note: this page did not load for me, for whatever reason, but since I watched the episode just now, I didn't keep trying until successful.)
I will say that the 22.275 Hz broadcast on the Brainiac show DID have effects, lol. It was only broadcast for about 10 seconds. I'm sure, since they mentioned it had been investigated by various militaries, that it has been studied to some degree. No doubt the sound devices can be easily engineered to transmit different frequencies. It would definitely put pirates and looters and asshats of all descriptions on the defensive, lol. It was barely audible (for me) and affected more than just the bowels - I could feel it in my arms - the elbow joints, specifically. It might have been noticeable elsewhere had I been standing.
#6
I remember early 70s stories about toys tested in Nam. One was a huge amp sending sound at a resonate frequency of a skull. Suppose to have been pretty effective for the right size and shape of skull.
#12
I'm sure it was a nice thing that the Captain had some kind of defensive system, but a 106 recoilless with a beehive round would have been far more effective - especially on inflatable boats! We've got to wake up to the fact that some people aren't "civilized", and need to be treated like the barbarians they are.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/08/2005 12:17 Comments ||
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#13
Ditto Patriot. It was called "Ontos" or "the thing" in Greek. 6 x the fun. Maybe you remember it.
#14
They weren't inflatable. I saw them on the teevee, looked like 21-foot whalers.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/08/2005 12:33 Comments ||
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#15
You know, you could sell a lot of tickets for a cruise that offered pirate hunting. Lower price fares would have to bring their own weapon and take a spot at the rail. Top of the line suites come with a 20mm mount right on your private balcony.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/08/2005 12:55 Comments ||
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#16
Where do I sign up, Steve? Sounds more exciting than the 2 cruises I've taken. ;-p
I'm glad the outcome was OK for the cruise ship, but I'm with OP - I'd prefer LETHAL weapons be employed against pirates. Kill them and sink their boats, too - if they're far enough out to sea, anyone who didn't catch a bullet will drown.
At least they'll arrive in Hell wet. The place could probably use some humidity. :-D
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/08/2005 16:11 Comments ||
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Posted by: Jim ||
11/08/2005 17:00 Comments ||
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#18
100+/- miles out to sea in an open boat with an outbaord motor????? Caught in a fairly accurate photo showing details of the boat and "crew". Avast - where's the mother ship?
Hope someone is checking the satellite photos for tracking - this should be an easy follow up.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
RIYADH - Saudi Arabia said on Tuesday it had taken into custody a man on the kingdomâs most wanted list of fugitive Al Qaeda suspects. An Interior Ministry statement on the state-run Saudi Press Agency named the militant as 
Influential Muslim cleric 
Colombian authorities arrested a suspected leftist rebel leader at Bogota's international airport in a journey that included Texas. 
FIVE associates of terrorist suspects gang-bashed a cameraman outside Melbourne Magistrates' Court yesterday. The gang rained kicks and punches on Channel 7 cameraman Matt Rose, dragged him by the hair and then smashed him with a chair. Chairs were thrown at other cameramen and into traffic on William St. A mother and her child sitting at outdoor tables where the attack happened were lucky to escape injury. One of the men raised a metal table and threatened to throw it at photographers. 
France will impose curfews under a state-of-emergency law and call up police reservists to stop rioting that has spread out of Paris' suburbs and into nearly 300 cities and towns across the country, the prime minister said Monday, calling a return to order "our No. 1 responsibility."
Mr de Villepin stressed the government's first priority was to restore calm and stop the nightly violence in the cities and suburbs. He announced: 
TAMPA, Fla., Nov 7 (Reuters) - A fired Florida university professor and three other Palestinians sent money to a group that they knew had killed Israelis and Americans, a prosecutor said on Monday in closing arguments. The prosecutor's statement came at the end of a five-month trial in one of the most important cases to go before a U.S. court since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.
Five foreign terrorism suspects at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have been charged with war crimes and will face military trials, bringing to nine the number charged at Guantanamo to date, the Pentagon announced on Monday. Two of the five "enemy combatants" facing charges are from Saudi Arabia, the Pentagon said. The other three are from Algeria, Ethiopia and Canada. The charges were announced just hours after the Supreme Court said it would decide whether President George W. Bush has the power to create military tribunals to put Guantanamo prisoners on trial for war crimes, an important test of the administration's policy in the war on terrorism.
Saudi nationals appear to be taking over the Al Qaida network in Iraq. U.S. officials said military intelligence has detected the flow of Saudi financing and senior operatives to Al Qaida in the Al Anbar province. They said Saudis have financed leading Al Qaida operatives in the Faluja area. "It seems that senior Al Qaida operatives in Saudi Arabia have moved their operations to Iraq, where they are well-financed by prominent Saudis who don't want to see a democratic Iraq," an official said.
A suicide bomber blew up his vehicle at a checkpoint south of Baghdad and killed four American soldiers Monday, the military said. The suicide attack came as U.S. and Iraqi troops battled al-Qaida-led militants for a third day in Husaybah, a town on the Syrian border that the military describes as a major entry point for foreign fighters. One Marine has died there, the U.S. command said Monday.
TEL AVIV â The Israel Army said more than 80 percent of Kassam-class, short-range missiles fired by Palestinian gunners from the Gaza Strip have not reached Israel. Instead, the missiles land in Palestinian communities or fields in the Gaza Strip, causing injuries and damage.
COLOMBO - Police in the Sri Lankan capital Colombo have found an explosives-filled jacket usually worn by suicide bombers raising fears of an assassination bid ahead of next weekâs elections, a top official said on Tuesday. Police Deputy Inspector-General Pujith Jayasundara said an anonymous caller alerted police to the âcomplete suicide jacketâ abandoned along a lane in Colomboâs residential and commercial area of Kollupitiya.
GUWAHATI, India - At least 21 people, mostly women, were wounded when a man threw a grenade into a crowded market in Indiaâs restive northeastern state of Manipur on Tuesday, police said. âSix of the injured are in critical condition,â a police officer told Reuters by phone from the state capital Imphal.
Pirates who attacked a cruise ship off the coast of Somalia grinned as they aimed grenade-launchers and machine guns at the deck and staterooms, some passengers said Monday, recounting the ordeal after safely docking in this Indian Ocean archipelago.
A suicide bomber tried to kill the governor of a volatile southern Afghan province by blowing up an explosives-filled vehicle as the official was going to work, officials said. A man who said he was a spokesman for loyalists of the Taliban government ousted in 2001 claimed responsibility for the attack on behalf of the hardliners, who are waging an insurgency.
The crew of a luxury cruise ship used a sonic weapon that blasts earsplitting noise in a directed beam while being attacked by a gang of pirates off Africa this weekend, the cruise line said Monday. The 
