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Abdur Rahim: Dead again!
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 1: WoT Operations
3 00:00 John Anderson [] 
3 00:00 Super Hose [] 
17 00:00 Super Hose [2] 
18 00:00 True German Ally [2] 
7 00:00 Mike Kozlowski [3] 
2 00:00 Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) [] 
7 00:00 Anonymous [2] 
3 00:00 Super Hose [1] 
12 00:00 Polonius [3] 
14 00:00 Super Hose [] 
3 00:00 mojo [] 
1 00:00 Charles [3] 
4 00:00 Ken B. [] 
2 00:00 Super Hose [2] 
6 00:00 Fred [6] 
15 00:00 Becky [3] 
10 00:00 Old Patriot [2] 
7 00:00 John Anderson [2] 
1 00:00 Alaska Paul [2] 
10 00:00 tu3031 [6] 
0 [2] 
5 00:00 True German Ally [1] 
4 00:00 Super Hose [2] 
15 00:00 tu3031 [4] 
2 00:00 Super Hose [2] 
8 00:00 Dan Darling [3] 
13 00:00 tu3031 [3] 
1 00:00 mojo [2] 
10 00:00 Old Patriot [2] 
14 00:00 Not Mike Moore [7] 
8 00:00 R. McLeod [4] 
6 00:00 Steve [5] 
8 00:00 raptor [2] 
10 00:00 Old Patriot [1] 
21 00:00 tu3031 [6] 
9 00:00 tu3031 [2] 
8 00:00 Old Patriot [2] 
-Short Attention Span Theater-
Man passes counterfeit $200 bill with likeness of GWB
via Drudge. Funny picture of the bill at the link.
North Carolina cops are searching for a guy who successfully passed a $200 bill bearing George W. Bush’s portrait and a drawing of the White House complete with lawn signs reading "We like ice cream" and "USA deserves a tax cut." The phony Bush bill was presented to a cashier at a Food Lion in Roanoke Rapids on September 6 by an unidentified male who was seeking to pay for $150 in groceries. Remarkably, the cashier accepted the counterfeit note and gave the man $50 change. In a separate incident involving a different perp, Roanoke Rapids cops Tuesday arrested Michael Harris, 24, for attempting last month to pass an identical $200 Bush bill at a convenience store.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/15/2003 12:54:16 AM || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Remarkably, the cashier accepted the counterfeit note and gave the man $50 change."
What a nitwit. Everyone knows that it's Davey Crockett's picture on the $200 bill. Dubya's is on the $300.
Posted by: American conspirator || 09/15/2003 3:06 Comments || Top||

#2  Is there even a $200 dollar bill?
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 3:14 Comments || Top||

#3  Well hell, there goes her checkout job - about the only occupation left to her is politician, so I guess she'll run for public office soon. Sheesh, our pool of dumber than dirt people is getting kinda large! Scary. I may decide to just retire here in Thailand.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 3:42 Comments || Top||

#4  .com, I understand she's running for Governor of California.

Actually, lawn signs for the White House... that has some marketing potential. "This press briefing brought to you by Jif". A novel and free market way to lower the deficit.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 09/15/2003 8:33 Comments || Top||

#5  Maybe she'd take Confederate bills too?
Posted by: Hiryu || 09/15/2003 10:37 Comments || Top||

#6  Is there even a $200 dollar bill?

Sure there is, and I have one. Do you have change? :-)
Posted by: Steve White || 09/15/2003 12:40 Comments || Top||

#7  Sure, you take $25 bills?
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 12:52 Comments || Top||

#8  I'm sorry, there's a 3-Steve limit per post
Posted by: Frank G || 09/15/2003 13:27 Comments || Top||

#9  A 3-Steve limit - now THAT's a scream! Oooh! Oooh!!! I wanna do the Bwahahahahaha's OK? Hmmm, I just did, LOL!
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 13:52 Comments || Top||

#10  I have lots of Monopoly money. Anyone wanna do a 1-for-1 exchange? I'll even take Euros. Disney money is ok too
Posted by: Rafael || 09/15/2003 16:46 Comments || Top||

#11  When I was a kid I dared my sister to eat a tablespoon of raw sourdough starter and I would give her $2.00. She did so I gave her $2 in monopoly money. She did not like that so she appealed to Dad. I had to pay in real US greenbacks. Counterfitting does not pay.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/15/2003 17:36 Comments || Top||

#12  Hey! It was only two Steve's, me and the other one!
Posted by: Steve White || 09/15/2003 18:08 Comments || Top||

#13  Anyone know if Mike made bail last month? It might be another example of damn fine police work if the local gendarmes paid him a visit.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/15/2003 20:42 Comments || Top||

#14  I heard tell that Condi was on the $300 bill
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/15/2003 22:33 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan
Raiders Strike U.S. Troops in Afghanistan
Guerrillas fired at U.S. soldiers with mortars and machine guns in a troubled eastern Afghan province before retreating toward the Pakistan border, the U.S. military said Monday. The military said it suffered no casualties in Saturday’s strike, the latest in a series at coalition and Afghan security forces in the south and east of the country. Authorities suspect resurgent Taliban or al-Qaida fighters are behind the attacks.
"Turbans?"
"Check."
"AKs?"
"Check."
"Korans?"
"Check."
"Pointy-toed shoes?"
"Check."
"Legume, I suspect these may be resurgent Taliban or al-Qaida fighters!"
Soldiers from the 10th Mountain Division were patrolling near a U.S. base at Shkin in Paktika province, just a few miles from the border with Pakistan, when they came under attack. The U.S. troops responded with small arms and artillery, trading fire for about an hour before the guerrillas pulled back toward the mountainous border. There was no information on guerrilla casualties.
Another "shoot and run for the border" operation.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 10:23:13 AM || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I knew the Oakland players were mean, but this is a new low.
Posted by: BH || 09/15/2003 10:57 Comments || Top||

#2  Saw a report on Fox this A.M. stated 14 goblins dead, including one significant command-type. No name yet.
Posted by: Hodadenon || 09/15/2003 11:00 Comments || Top||

#3  Update from MSNBC: “FIFTEEN TALIBAN were killed, including Mullah Abdur Rahim, in Maruf district,” Afghan Foreign Ministry official Khalid Khan Achakzai said in Spin Boldak, not far from the border with Pakistan. Maruf is in Kandahar province. He said the fighters killed in the Sunday night clash had probably come from the province of Zabul, where hundreds of rebels had been involved in clashes with Afghan troops and U.S.-led forces in recent weeks.“They were trying to regroup and launch fresh attacks,” he told Reuters.
Mullah Abdul Samad, an intelligence officer in the radical Taliban regime that was ousted from power in 2001, confirmed that there was a clash in Maruf, but denied the death of Rahim. Rahim is the Taliban commander for southern Afghanistan, where rebels have been most active in recent months.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 11:12 Comments || Top||

#4  I'm so happy to hear Rahim's dead again. The world's always a safer place when he's dead.
Posted by: Fred || 09/15/2003 11:31 Comments || Top||

#5  I'm so happy to hear Rahim's dead again. The world's always a safer place when he's dead.

If he's worth killing once, he's worth killing twice!
Posted by: Steve White || 09/15/2003 12:42 Comments || Top||

#6  Mullah Abdul Samad, an intelligence officer in the radical Taliban regime, denied the death of Rahim. "There have been deaths on both sides but it is wrong that Abdur Rahim has been killed. It is mere propaganda," Samad told Reuters. Rahim has been suffering from wounds sustained earlier in the year in a clash with Afghan forces in Spin Boldak, and a deputy was appointed to assist him by the elusive fugitive Taliban leader Mullah Omar.

Guess he got better, hope he just had a relapse.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 13:06 Comments || Top||

#7  They were using the silver bullets this time.
Posted by: seafarious || 09/15/2003 14:33 Comments || Top||

#8  And why didn't we call in a air-strike? Flatten the Turbaninets!
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 15:41 Comments || Top||

#9  I didn't realize reincarnation was an Islamofascist doctrine.
Posted by: Mr. Davis || 09/15/2003 18:32 Comments || Top||

#10  I see they have new border signs:
"Welcome to Pakistan. The Cambodia of the 21st Century. Buckle Up For Safety."
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/15/2003 20:44 Comments || Top||


Arabia
Yemeni Politician’s Killer to Count Muzzle Blasts
A Yemeni court yesterday sentenced to death an Islamic militant convicted of shooting dead a leading politician last December and plotting to kill other secular figures. The North Sanaa district court found Ali Ahmad Jarallah, 26, guilty of gunning down the deputy secretary-general of the Yemen Socialist Party (YSP), Jarallah Omar, 56. Ahmad Jarallah was arrested immediately after the shooting which took place at a party congress for the Islamic-oriented Yemeni Congregation for Reform or Islah on Dec. 28, 2002. Police said after the attack that Jarallah belonged to the Islah, but the main opposition party vehemently denied his membership.
"Nope, never heard of him. He must of snuck into the party."
“We find him guilty of premeditated murder of Jarallah Omar and the attempted murder of Saeid Al-Mameri,” said the verdict read by Chief Judge Abdul-Rahman Jahhaf. Al-Mameri, a member of Islah, was injured in the shooting. The court ordered that Jarallah be executed by a firing squad. Dressed in blue prison uniform and standing behind bars, Jarallah, who did not show any emotion during earlier court hearings, nodded and smiled when the verdict was pronounced.
"Groovey, man. Oh wow, look at the colors!"
The court also convicted the man of planning to set up a 13-member terror cell to murder secular politicians, journalists and foreign missionaries.
Mostly politicians, they tend to frown on that.
Five other men, accused by prosecution of belonging to Jarallah’s group, were given prison terms between three and 10 years for helping him.
No revolving door prison for you guys.
The court acquitted six others due to lack of evidence.

The assassination of Omar came two days before Islamic militant Aabid Abdur-Razzak Kamil, 32, shot dead three American missionaries at a Baptist hospital in southern Yemen. Kamil shot dead two physicians and an administrator on Dec. 30, 2003. A fourth missionary was injured in the attack. Prosecutors said Kamil was No. 2 in the terror group established by Jarallah. Kamil was sentenced to death by a criminal court in southern Yemen in May.
Neither one will be missed.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 12:18:58 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Kamil shot dead two physicians and an administrator on Dec. 30, 2003.

Slight problem with this sentence.....
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 15:48 Comments || Top||


Saudi Arabian Prison Fire Kills 67
A fire broke out in a prison in the Saudi capital on Monday, killing 67 inmates, a prison official said. The official Saudi Press Agency, quoting the head of the Interior Ministry’s prison’s department, said 20 inmates also suffered smoke inhalation and three prison guards were injured. The cause of the fire was not immediately known.
Hummmm
Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef ordered an investigation into the fire, the SPA quoted the official as saying. The fire broke out midday Monday and ambulances and fire fighters rushed to the prison, according to the official was not identified further.
Could be a real fire, these things do happen. Of course, if it turns out that the prisoners were al-Q terror suspects and the bodies were burned beyond recognition...............
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 11:40:12 AM || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  that was exactly what I thought... along with: obviously alk runners having a dispute in prison
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/15/2003 11:57 Comments || Top||

#2  that was me
Posted by: Frank G || 09/15/2003 12:04 Comments || Top||

#3  Wonder how many got away. Good thing they weren't girls or the Special Turban Police would have been waiting outside.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 09/15/2003 12:26 Comments || Top||

#4  "bodies burned beyond recognition..."

Kinda like what happens with official records sometimes...
Posted by: Fred || 09/15/2003 15:19 Comments || Top||

#5  If they were AL-Q, then they aren't anymore. That's what really counts.
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 18:44 Comments || Top||

#6  But they're not gonna say anything to anybody outside the Family, either, are they?
Posted by: Fred || 09/15/2003 20:12 Comments || Top||


Britain
Prince Harry’s Bottom of the Class
Prince Harry’s D grade in geography was the worst A-level result of his year at Eton, it has been revealed.
You would think that Geography would be an important subject to royalty.
The prince, 19 today, needed only two A-levels at any grade to get into Sandhurst for officer training. His other A-level was art in which he achieved grade B.
Maybe he should be looking at concentrating on staging different art pieces throughout London. You know turkey on the head...
His poor performance was inadvertently revealed by Eton head, Tony Little, at a beginning-of-term assembly.
Maybe having his grades released publically even in the Western hemisphere will motivate him to do better.
via Drudge
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 1:04:39 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  BFD. Tell the kid to get a REAL job...
Posted by: mojo || 09/15/2003 13:14 Comments || Top||

#2  Cut him a break. He probably knows more about geography than most 19 year olds, and he's headed into officer training. I feel sorry for the kid -- it has been and will continue to be a life of misery, and there's no escape. Mom's dead, dad's a jerk, and the press hounds the hell out of him.
Posted by: Tom || 09/15/2003 14:23 Comments || Top||

#3  Sorry, for dumping on him. Was going for the bizarre take of the "No-Child-Left-Behind" angle. Everybody in class is doing well compared to Harry and he's somebody. Wonder if Tony Little has posted a resume on the British equivalent of Monster.com.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 14:48 Comments || Top||


Book: Britain’s Straw Had Doubts on War
Days before the Iraq war began, Britain’s foreign secretary asked Prime Minister Tony Blair not to send British troops to the conflict, a new book alleges. Excerpts from "Blair’s Wars," published in the Mail on Sunday newspaper, claim Foreign Secretary Jack Straw urged Blair in a personal memo in March to tell President Bush that Britain would offer moral and political support for the conflict, but no combat troops.
When a liberal in good standing shows doubt it’s a sign of their intelligence and sensitivity — means they really thought long and hard so the rest of us should STFU. Wonder if the Left will give Straw any consideration?
Blair’s office and the Foreign Office said they had no comment on the claims. The author of "Blair’s Wars," political journalist John Kampfner, did not claim to have seen Straw’s memo, but stood by his allegation. "I have verbal evidence of that, but it certainly did happen," he told the British Broadcasting Corp.’s "Breakfast with Frost" program on Sunday.
And if you can’t believe the BBC, who can you believe?
Straw, a loyal ally of Blair, has never publicly expressed doubts about going to war. In the excerpt, Kampfner said that after receiving the memo, Blair "asked him to clarify whether or not he would support the war, now that it was definitely going to happen. Straw said he would."
Good man — gave his best advice and then supported the plan.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/15/2003 12:42:06 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And as icing, he gets to tell his good friend Dom that he and his countrymen have a neurosis.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/15/2003 2:22 Comments || Top||

#2  I heard from Fox that is was the " friend of a friend of mine" situation that he recieved the info from.
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 3:31 Comments || Top||

#3  Of course the Beeb would delight in interviewing this asshat parasite - he's their kind of guy, see right there - Editorial Agenda item #1: Hurt Blair any way possible.

Bulldog, after it has been digested, let us know the street "take" on this... Are people buying it and, if so, is it cuz they want it to be true or because the guy is credible? I haven't done my Google search, yet! BTW, great job posting lately! What you choose to post tells us a lot about what matters "over there!"

Personally, I hope that Straw didn't do it - and rakes this Kampfner over the coals. If anyone should profit from a tell-all book here it's, uh, um, er, no one.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 5:06 Comments || Top||

#4  Isn't John Kampfner the same guy responsible for the BBC's Jessica Lynch travesty. You know, the one where they lied and manipulated the public on a story about how the penatgon and the American media lied to and manipulated the public.

This guy is jealous of all the attention that Andrew Gilligan is getting.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 09/15/2003 6:52 Comments || Top||

#5  Tokyo Taro - Yep - that's the one. Good memory and good catch! From Google, I get the picture that this guy wants to be the ultra-anti-Blair (or whomever) "correspondent." You've got him pegged!
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 7:11 Comments || Top||

#6  Ain't 20/20 hindsight wonderful?
Posted by: Hiryu || 09/15/2003 10:38 Comments || Top||

#7  Downing Street's not denying the memo was sent, and are claiming that what Straw was referring to was a fallback plan, in the event that Commons rebellion made sending forces politically impossible:

"...Number 10 said the suggestion was only part of contingency plans in case the government lost the key Commons vote on military action in March. The prime minister's official spokesman said: "The foreign secretary remains as convinced today as he was when the decision was taken that military action was thoroughly justified, by Saddam Hussein's defiance of the United Nations, and that it was the right thing to do. I don't think people should be surprised if thought was being given in different parts of government to fallback options that might follow a negative vote in the Commons - but that's entirely different to having reservations about the policy." Mr Straw continued to believe military action was "thoroughly justified", said the spokesman, but it had been only sensible to plan to for what might have happened in the vote."

Seems entirely plausible to me. Kampfner's definitely eyeing Gilligan's "most creative use of source material" mantle. The Telegraph have an article up now covering the Government response, too (they seem to be updating a lot more of their online version in real time now).

Thanks for the comments, .com. I try to post what I think to be the most important stories from the UK and the view from here, when I can.
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/15/2003 12:00 Comments || Top||

#8  BD - This is great feedback - and the link is most welcome, too. Thx! TT pegged him as a climber (and the guy who made a splash on the Lynch story, then disappeared) and your confirmation puts his comments in perspective - which is invaluable and much appreciated.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 12:55 Comments || Top||

#9  Bulldog, I appreciate the UK updates even if I don't comment. I do check the BBC website from time to time. The "Have Your Say" section is always amusing. "Is Amerikkka a Threat or a Menace? Have Your Say!"
Posted by: Matt || 09/15/2003 13:55 Comments || Top||

#10  Another name for the "list" a la "Mikado". I volunteer to be a part!
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 14:47 Comments || Top||


Europe
German neo-Nazi threat ’rising’
The Beeb picks up TGA’s threads... EFL
The threat to Germany from neo-Nazis has risen to a new level, Interior Minister Otto Schily has warned. The discovery of a suspected plot to bomb a Munich Jewish centre during a visit by the German president has "dramatically confirmed" the danger to society, he said on Monday. At least 10 suspects were held and up to 14kg (31lb) of explosives seized in police raids last week. Officials believe plans were being made to bomb the centre on 9 November, when its foundation stone is due to be laid at a ceremony attended by President Johannes Rau, Bavarian governor Edmund Stoiber and Jewish leader Paul Spiegel. The suspected attack would have coincided with the anniversary of the Nazis’ 1938 Kristallnacht attacks, when thousands of Jewish targets were attacked and dozens murdered.

"One could (even) say there is a new quality of terror, though we know from previous times that in right-extremist circles bombing attacks were planned and carried out," Mr Schily told Germany’s ZDF television, referring a 1980 attack that killed 13 people. "There have been hints that right extremists are really a great potential danger for our society... and this has now been dramatically confirmed." A "hit list" detailing other possible targets, including mosques!!!, a Greek school and an Italian target, had been recovered, said Bavarian Interior Minister Guenther Beckstein.

The explosives included at least 1.7kg of TNT. Weapons, grenades and ammunition were also recovered. German media reports at the weekend speculated on the possible phenomenon of a neo-Nazi "Brown Army Faction", referring to the disbanded left-wing Red Army Faction. "Faced with the flood of pictures from the Middle East, we had forgotten what extremists could also plan here at home," wrote commentator Guido Heinen in Die Welt. "German political terrorism is back."
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/15/2003 1:43:36 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Didn't know they had a beef with Italians?
It must have been a left-wing or Euro-oriented
target?
Posted by: J.H. || 09/15/2003 14:08 Comments || Top||

#2  Even with the anti-everything sentiment present right now, I'll put my money on honest regular Germans to slap these neo-Nazis down when they show up on the radar screen. Every society has morons like this who seek to make a niche for themselves by hating someone - offering up what they hope will be a social scapegoat for slaughter to assuage the frustrations of the dysfunctional.

This isn't history rearing its head, it's history being repeated endlessly in every society - and the Germans won't tolerate or support it. More than anyone else today, they appreciate the dangers and stupidity present in such crap. I hope they cut the funding off first, to take them off the news, then quietly snuff these parasitic cretins.

Shan? Shan, where are you? Doesn't this disgust you? Or might you be a target for these people? Murat would be, if he were to immigrate to Germany - and your stupid racial references indicate you would likely be, as well. Is it OK to "remove" these people from society? Is it okay to fight fire with fire when reason is beyond their ken? Can you discern differences which allow one situation, yet not another? Speak Solomon, or crawl back into your superior shell of silence.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 15:00 Comments || Top||

#3  I think they have a beef with anything that is not 'Aryan'.

Let me be the first to say that this is great news! No, not he anti-semitic stuff, but that fact that xenophobic anti-foreigner violence is taking root. This is a slap in the face to EUropean PC, and nanny socialism.
I especially delight in the fact that they would target mosques! Wow, more power to them. Finally, the Islamofascists will take some of their own fucking medicine. I say, kill them, kill them all.
Please don't respond saying that I'm a bigot, blah, blah, blah. I don't give a shit what you think. I support Israel, and feel that the Israelis are too soft on the Arabs. It would be unfortunate that anti-semitic attacks would kill innocent Jews, but if it forces more of them to go to Israel and prop up their non-Arab population, then it might be for the better good in the long run.
I am just ecstatic that finally, finally somebody is targeting those motherfucking Muslims. Bout time.
Posted by: jlc || 09/15/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||

#4  "Please don't respond saying that I'm a bigot, blah, blah, blah. I don't give a shit what you think. "

You are a bigot and a racist and an all-around evil man. And I don't give a shit that you don't give a shit what I think.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/15/2003 15:10 Comments || Top||

#5  "Didn't know they had a beef with Italians?"

Italians are foreigners so they have a beef with them. That's the way it works.

And why in the world was Bulldog surprised that mosques were being targetted? Is it the first time you guys have ever heard of anti-Turk violence by neo-Nazis?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/15/2003 15:15 Comments || Top||

#6  Sheesh! And I was just getting used to the idea that I'm a wild-eyed-racist and kill-em-all-and-let-God-sort-em-out genocidal maniac kind o' guy. I'm a fucking wimp! I'm crushed!
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 15:24 Comments || Top||

#7  Aris Katsaris, you can go fuck yourself with a baseball bat. Better yet, let me do it for you! Faggot.

It is my opinion that bout 5-10% of Muslims in Europe are out and out terrorists, maybe 20% are enablers of terrorism, and a mojority(60-70%?) silently cheer the Islamofucks on. They are a mortal threat to Western civilization. The brownshirts in Germany, and other fascists in Europe will never attain political power again, unless a given contry totally disintegrates politically and economically. They may just, however, put the fear of G-d into the ruling elites, and finally force them to change course. That would indeed be a godsend. So I say, more power to them. I'm cheering them on.
Posted by: jlc || 09/15/2003 15:38 Comments || Top||

#8  "And why in the world was Bulldog surprised that mosques were being targetted? Is it the first time you guys have ever heard of anti-Turk violence by neo-Nazis?"

A combination of surprise and amazement at what the consequences would be. Surprise because, as was discussed a couple of days ago, there is a historical and political association between German neo-Nazis and Islamists (despite the anti-Turk violence which I'm well aware of), which is, the marriage of convenience created by shared Judeophobia.

Amazement at the idea of mosques being targetted by terrorists in the heart of the EU. Imagine the self-righteous protestations of Muslims throughout the world. Imagine the possible soul-searching that would presumably, hopefully, follow. Imagine the response of the western political "elites", Islamic terror apologists, and the holier-than-thou Europhiles (such as yourself). Just ponder the consequences...
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/15/2003 17:00 Comments || Top||

#9  It's always a good idea not to feed trolls, of all sides. They will crawl back to stormfront.org soon enough.
My sympathies for nutbags who wanted to blow up a ceremony I was going to attend is limited.
I don't believe that Germany will "relapse". If these guys manage to blow up something significant they will be whacked thoroughly and that's that. Unlike leftist of islamist terrorists these brown dirtbags only applaud themselves.
I've been getting occasional death threats from them for the last 30 years. If only they used toilet paper I could put them to good use. Nothing to lose sleep over. They write German worse than a Neanderthal man.
Actually the radicalization of the brownies show something: They have no other chance to get some attention.
Bulldog, as for the link between Islamofascists and Neo-Nazis we established, I think it's more an (ideological) one way street. The islamofascists may draw from Nazi ideology, but I can't just see a fanatic Turk and a Neo-Nazi burning a synagogue together. Of course you can never tell how much of a method madness may have.
But if mosques go up in flames, will we witness a whiny Bin Laden ask us: "Why do they hate us so much?"
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/15/2003 17:32 Comments || Top||

#10  "Aris Katsaris, you can go fuck yourself with a baseball bat. Better yet, let me do it for you! Faggot. "

Hey, didn't you say you didn't give a shit about what I think about you? It now seems to me that you *do* give a shit or you wouldn't have gotten so upset.

I think that people who feel the need to mention they don't give a shit about other's opinions are generally the most insecure of them all. Or they wouldn't have bothered to mention it.

Anyway, you supported the murderous actions of the racist and xenophobic Neonazis. The kind of people who take innocent teenage children and (because said children are Greek or Turkish or generally non-Aryan) carve svastikas on their foreheads. Your kinds of people, your best pals. You said that though you disapprove of their antisemetism you are glad about all the rest of their anti-foreign actions. In your stated approval of them, you became morally complicit.

You are philoNazi scum and as evil as they. Burn in hell, baby, burn.

"The brownshirts in Germany, and other fascists in Europe will never attain political power again, unless a given country totally disintegrates politically and economically"

Not pan-European power, no. But the nationalist racist anti-Muslim scum had enough power to cause ethnic cleansing and genocide in Bosnia. Or to drown Grozny in blood, for that matter.

But, hey you probably are happy of the Serbs battling the Muslim terror in the Balkans. And here is me, disgusted and all about the attitude of most Greek media which supported the Serbs: You'd probably think that is the proper attitude to take, instead.

Bulldog> I think that the long-term thinking Neonazis are in an alliance of terror with the Islamists, both being opposed to Israel or secular democracy. Short-term thinking Neonazis haven't evolved much beyond the level of "Evil non-Christian or foreigner! Get him!", I'd say. The difference between Neonazi leadership and troops.

Or it may be as TGA said.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/15/2003 19:50 Comments || Top||

#11  I read what jlc wrote to Aris and am quite surprised that there are still some the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" dudes still hanging around. I file the skinheads in with abortion clinic bombers and the anti-government militia shooters that hate the central government so badly that they "off" the local sherrif.

For a historical recap Stalin was nobody's pal. He killed Germans, Jews, Russians and Poles. Basically, he killed indescrimminantly. Hopefully, the Poles weren't cheering when Stalin depopulated whole Russian villages, because Stalin was an equal opportunity psychopath.

More recently OBL was not our friend when he was arming the mujahadim. We made that mistake. Only the village idiot cheers the skinheads.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 19:59 Comments || Top||

#12  The issues in postings here are often of great importance and serious and heated arguments are good. That is why Rantburg is here. However, the "go fuck yourself" and other personal attack lines are counterproductive and vile and serve only to bring the whole thing into the gutter. There are plenty of other websites where one can wallow in the gutter. That's my two cents, anyway.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/15/2003 20:20 Comments || Top||

#13  AP> Thank you.
Aris> Apologies from a regular.
Posted by: Old Grouch || 09/15/2003 20:35 Comments || Top||

#14  Aris,

There are many websites that a conservative mid-westerner like myself can hang at and here people like myself agree in a conservative love-fest. I would rather frequent a website with divergent views. You, Bulldog, Murat et al make the site interesting and mentally challenging. Please continue and ignore the skinhead. Hopefully, he will take a break to enjoy some autoerotic asphyxiation and find his bowie knife too dull to part the chord at the moment of truth.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 20:37 Comments || Top||

#15  *amused* People, there's no reason to apologise for the actions or words of jlc -- his idiocy is his alone and I know most people here don't approve of it...

And I was mostly amused, not offended, by his second post - first the "I don't give a shit if you call me a bigot" thing but then flying off the handle when I did call him one. Funny! :-)
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/15/2003 21:48 Comments || Top||

#16  You are philoNazi scum and as evil as they. Burn in hell, baby, burn.

LMAO. Oh man.. there should be a classic comments section.
Posted by: Rafael || 09/15/2003 23:07 Comments || Top||

#17  ""You are philoNazi scum and as evil as they. Burn in hell, baby, burn. LMAO." Oh man.. there should be a classic comments section."

Heh. I wish I'd been keeping a record!

TGA, Has the ceremony on the 9th been postponed?

TGA & Aris, When I said "marriage of convenience", I didn't mean to imply that there was an actual deep-rooted association between neo-Nazis and Islamists, only, I presumed, a kind of unspoken non-aggression agreement given the overriding centrality of their shared judeophobia. Attacks on immigrants, including Turks, are par for the course for neo-Nazi behaviour, but high profile attacks on mosques are surely a new development (tell me if I'm wrong), and would have considerable international consequences, being interpretable as an attack on Islam itself and not just on foreigners who happen to be Muslim.

Do neo-Nazis really have controlling leadership with defined political agenda? I gather the brownies are few in numbers anyway, and as TGA indicates, primarily mentally challenged (did the Neanderthals really speak German, badly ;) ) losers for whom hate is adopted as a world view for want of the ability to grasp anything more intellectually demanding. Acts of violence for them are simply achievements in themselves, as they are for al Quaeda, with no realistic assessment, or no assessment at all, of the consequences of the acts, which will in all probability be an overwhelming counteraction. Methodical madness, you could say.
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/16/2003 5:34 Comments || Top||

#18  The ceremony has not been cancelled or postponed. And I hope this won't change.
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 9:23 Comments || Top||


Straw labels French Leaders "neurotic"
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw has accused French leaders of suffering from an anti-American "neurosis" leading one tabloid newspaper to warn that Straw had triggered an "astonishing diplomatic row".
Why the hell can’t we Merkins have a Secretary of State as good as Jack Straw? *pouts*
The Daily Mail reported that Straw "reignited tensions" over the Iraq war, which France opposed, by accusing French leaders of being anti-American. "There isn’t any question but that a significant part of the way in which the French political diplomatic class defines itself is against America, and this has been a continuing neurosis amongst the French political class for many decades," Straw was quoted as saying.
Maybe if we made Colon and Condi swap jobs????
Posted by: Ptah || 09/15/2003 11:27:32 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I still can't believe the amount of vapors straight talk causes the diplos.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/15/2003 11:49 Comments || Top||

#2  This is awesome! Straw is welcome in the US, too, when the EUwwww throws him out for their greatest crime: truth-telling.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 14:13 Comments || Top||

#3  We can't have a "straight talking" Secretary of State because there's power in "good-cop/bad-cop" and we would be silly to waste that power. As disgusting a game as it is, we actually benefit.

You want more straight talkers? Good grief, many people are upset that the President, the Vice President, and the Secretary of Defense are straight talkers! They would prefer Clintonesque BS to reality.
Posted by: Tom || 09/15/2003 14:39 Comments || Top||

#4  Wow... the part where he says the neurosis stems from the fact that Britain stood alone while the French capitulated to the Germans in WW2 was the best thing I've ever heard a senior politican say. He's taken the belt from Rumsfield hands down. Ladies and gentlemen introduing the NEW heavyweight champion of tellin it straight in the world.... JJJJJAAAACK STRAW! Ok, I got a little carried away there ;) Seriously this guy is a class act, I wish we had him in the US admin.
Posted by: Damn_Proud_American || 09/15/2003 14:42 Comments || Top||

#5  I'm perfectly happy to see someone of his class - and his honesty - in European politics. The rest of the crowd would push a prostitute to seek a cloister.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 15:28 Comments || Top||

#6  Just in case you read French, you might want to take a look at Le Monde where philosopher André Glucksmann gives French foreign policy a pretty good whacking.

Irak : faut-il aider les Etats-Unis?
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/15/2003 17:39 Comments || Top||

#7  "Why the hell can’t we Merkins have a Secretary of State as good as Jack Straw?"

Because he believes too much that those in power have no need to listen to other people. Remember, when residentd of Gibraltar talked of a non-binding vote on giving Spain "co-rule" he called the very idea of a vote 'undemocratic.'
Posted by: John Anderson || 09/15/2003 18:49 Comments || Top||


Former President Bush Meets With Putin
Former President George H.W. Bush met Vladimir Putin upon arriving Sunday in the Black Sea resort of Sochi, less than two weeks ahead of his son’s talks with the Russian leader.
Funny how the timing worked out, isn’t it?
Bush and his wife, Barbara, traveled to Sochi on a plane provided by the airline that serves Putin and other Russia government figures. Putin, his black Labrador retriever nearby, greeted them on the tarmac in English, shaking Bush’s hand and giving Barbara a bouquet of roses. Putin rarely meets even high-level visitors at the airport, and Bush thanked him for his "extraordinary courtesy."
Nice he took the time to meet the Bushes on their "un-official" visit.
Bush, who was briefed at visited the White House before leaving for St. Petersburg, Russia, last week, said Sunday "our president has a great feeling not only of respect (but) of friendship for President Putin. This is not diplomatic language, this is right from the heart."
Putin returned the praise, suggesting his relationship with the younger Bush transcends politics. "When I talk with the U.S. president, our opinions do not always coincide, but the most important thing is that we have a very good rapport, very good feelings toward each other, and trust," he said.
"Plus, I really like the BBQ they serve at the ranch."
The warm words set a cordial tone for the summit, which comes as Russia and the United States seek to patch up relations after deep disagreement over the war in Iraq and continued debate about the postwar situation. The Kremlin said last week that Putin and the younger Bush will meet Sept. 26 at Camp David. Russian news agencies quoted an unidentified Kremlin official as saying Saturday that talks in Sochi would focus on the development of Russian-U.S. relations over the past decade and opportunities presented by the upcoming summit. They also will discuss world affairs since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the official said.
Uh huh, "un-official visit" my ass.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 10:10:30 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hell, all the good stuff gets handled "unofficially" these days...
Posted by: mojo || 09/15/2003 11:23 Comments || Top||

#2  Going to guarantee some/most Iraq payment for shutting down Iran's reactor and Kimchee?
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/15/2003 11:29 Comments || Top||

#3  They let him ride in a RUSSIAN PLANE ? Secret Service needs a little lesson in safety.
Posted by: eyeyeye || 09/15/2003 11:56 Comments || Top||

#4  "traveled to Sochi on a plane provided by the airline that serves Putin and other Russia government figures."
This would be the airline that gets plenty of maintenance funds, Putin didn't get to be where he is by being stupid.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 12:51 Comments || Top||

#5  On his way back he might want to plan in a stopover in Berlin. The older Bush is one of the best friends Germany ever had.
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/15/2003 17:43 Comments || Top||


Yoko Ono ’strips’ for world peace
Yoko Ono, widow of murdered Beatle John Lennon, could end up naked on a Paris stage in her art show Cut Piece.
No one deserves her more.
First performed in 1964 as a peace protest, Ono asks the audience to cut off pieces of her clothing to "send to the one you love". "When I first performed this work I did it with anger. This time, I do it with love for the world," said Ono. "Come and cut a piece of my clothing wherever you like - the size of less than a postcard --- and send it to the one you love," Ono, 70, said in a statement ahead of the show at Paris’ Ranelagh theatre.
Take that, France!
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 9:08:31 AM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  eeeewwwwwww,nasty
Posted by: raptor || 09/15/2003 9:19 Comments || Top||

#2  Frankly, Yoko, I don't think it is a good idea to have sharp objects around the likes of you.

It is really hard to make a joke of this since it is such a pathetic display of leftist sentiment from a woman who, at 70, just won't let go.

The world is on to you and your bullshit, Yoko. Your strip tease worked back in 1964 but in a world full of bin Ladens, Arafats and their communist sympathizers here in the US, its just a tired and sorry display no one wants, or wants to see.
Posted by: badanov || 09/15/2003 9:29 Comments || Top||

#3  This is scary on so many levels.....
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 10:01 Comments || Top||

#4  I hear that Madeline Albright is going to join Yoko onstage....theres a nice visual for your breakfast
Posted by: wills || 09/15/2003 10:12 Comments || Top||

#5  Being mobbed by a crowd with sharp scissors?

She must be crazy – uh…..
She must be high – uh ….
She must be desperate for attention – uh ….

Well all right then.
Posted by: Red || 09/15/2003 10:33 Comments || Top||

#6  Here's Yoko's invitation:
The events that have occured since 9-11 have made me terribly vulnerable, as if the slightest breeze could make me cry.
I had the impression that all of my ideals were swept away, but nevertheless I continued to stand by my convictions.
The media provided us with the news that they saw fit to report to us. Faceless men were at work. Brute strength and intimidation were in vogue, people were silenced.
I had always thought that I would want to live forever and not be afraid of doing so. But can I truly want to live in the world the now surrounds us?
Some of us have gone to Palestine to be human shields. This gesture has touched me deeply. If we could all do as much without machine gunning each other... I immediately thought of joining them. I almost did.
The world then learned of the death of Rachel Corrie. She took a stand, in all of our names.
Cut Piece is an expression for my hope for world peace. Today is a special day for me. As is every day. I've decide to relish each instant.
I was shaken and angry when I completed the performance for the first time in 1964. This time, I am doing it out of love for you, me, and the world.
Come and cut a piece of my clothing, anywhere you like, a piece no larger than a postcard, and send it to your loved one.
My body is the scar of my mind.
See you soon.

y.o.
summer 2003

Should have figured she would be a big fan of Speedbump Corrie.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 10:44 Comments || Top||

#7  Doesn't this go under "Fifth Column"?
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 10:47 Comments || Top||

#8  Nah. "Short (very short) attention span theatre".
Posted by: Ptah || 09/15/2003 11:09 Comments || Top||

#9  Yoko is the anti-Viagra. With an image like this, you have to wonder how far away we are technologically from developing the flashing mind-erase pen from Men In Black. I'm going to check Brookstone's site in case somebody exposes me to pictures of the event.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 12:29 Comments || Top||

#10  I knew Yoko Ono was insane, but I didn't know she was mad enough to support the International Pro-Holocaust Solidarity Movement.
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 14:10 Comments || Top||

#11  I hope someone can give us a heads-up as to the exact date, so most of us can call in sick ahead of time. I'll meet you all at the local hospital coffee shop - it's just a short walk to the Emergency Room from there, and if anyone spews, it'll be easy to clean up.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 15:34 Comments || Top||

#12  Islamic hell: The Jihadist is rewarded with 72 Yokos.
Posted by: JFM || 09/15/2003 16:13 Comments || Top||

#13  Maybe she could perform together with Woody Allen to promote tourism in France?
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/15/2003 17:45 Comments || Top||

#14  TGA: The Frankistanis aren't THAT stupid.
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 19:24 Comments || Top||

#15  If she's so hot on Rachel baby, why doesn't she do everybody a favor and have herself run over by a bulldozer. She could call it "Annoying Woman Run Over By Bulldozer Piece".
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/15/2003 21:02 Comments || Top||


Fifth Column
Pledge beauzeaux delay recall
Those assholes again. EFL.
LOS ANGELES - A federal appeals court postponed the Oct. 7 recall election Monday in a decision that threw an already chaotic campaign into utter turmoil.
*crunch* "What was that?" "A wrench falling into the machinery."
The 9th U.S. Circus Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the election cannot proceed as scheduled because some votes would be cast using outmoded punch-card ballot machines. The decision applies to all the recall questions on the ballot, as well as two propositions.
Either of them politically incorrect emasures that these beauzeaux fear will pass?
The court, the nation’s largest and most loony moronic liberal federal appeals court, withheld ordering the immediate implementation of its decision by a week to allow time for an appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
They’re crossing their fingers that the Supreme Court won’t hear it.
It is the same court that ruled last summer that reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools is unconstitutional because of the words "under God" inserted by Congress in 1954.
Same moonbats, same wrongness in ruling.
Ted Costa, head of the Sacramento-based Peoples’ Advocate, one of the groups that put the recall on the ballot, said an appeal of Monday’s ruling was certain. "Give us 24 hours," he said.

Both Gov. Gray Davis and Arnold Schwarzenegger, the leading Republican among the 135 replacement candidates, said they would continue their campaigns despite the decision, which could force the U.S. Supreme Court to rule on another highly partisan political issue — one Democrats have said echoes the 2000 election in which the high court declared Republican George Bush the winner.
And this ought to have the same sort of end: the Supreme Court having a moment of sanity and overturneing the lower court.
Schwarzenegger issued a statement calling on the secretary of state to file an appeal on behalf of Californians.

"Historically, the courts have upheld the rights of voters, and I expect that the court will do so again in this case," Schwarzenegger said. "The people have spoken, and their word should, and will, prevail."
"I’ll be back."
Davis spokesman Peter Ragone said the governor will continue fighting the recall effort and supports the appeals court’s ruling.

"Anything that leads to greater enfranchisement in California is something we support," he said.
Then his lips fell off.
The ruling is likely to benefit Davis if the election is delayed to the next regularly scheduled primary, March 2.
I can’t believe the 9th. Circus Court!
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 3:38:43 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  At what point will the left simply *CONCEDE* that they do NOT endorse the democratic process UNLESS the outcome favors their candidates???
Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/15/2003 15:42 Comments || Top||

#2  The state should deliver absentee ballots to the counties in question and let people fill in the ballots and drop them at the polling place.
Posted by: Yank || 09/15/2003 15:51 Comments || Top||

#3  Every time the majority in this state raise their voice in opposition to Moscow Sacramento....the black robed fanatics of the 9th Jerk-it have been there to slap us down. Props 187....209...doesn't matter. This is not democracy...this is totalitaranism. Behold the Great Socialist Uber State! Heil Kommerade Davis....Gott Mit Uns!
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 09/15/2003 16:15 Comments || Top||

#4  See it all depends on what the meaning of 'democratic' means, you think its means the people voting to determine their future, they think it means democrat party bosses doing what they damn well please, and the people be dammned. I'd like someone to explain to me how voting machines that were good enough to elect Gray Davis in November are not good enough to recall him the following October. Is it now the case that any election can be delayed as long as some fault is found in the election process? Can I sue to have the voting roles purged of illegal voters or delay the election until I have my "right to a fair election" secured?

This is the worst possible outcome for Gray Davis, he stood a reasonable chance to win in October, but now this will sit and fester in peoples minds for another 5 months, with never ending ads on TV and radio sucking the oxygen out of the air for the democratic primary that will occur at the same time as the recall.

It is now possible for Mclintock to win.
Posted by: Frank Martin || 09/15/2003 16:20 Comments || Top||

#5  I knew the 'election' was a sham! What about the last election? Punch-cards were/are used all over the state. In fact, the absentee ballots are ALL punchcards! If they are not good then the entire legislature should resign since they were elcted by those same punchcards. I knew the Demoncrots would find a way to twart the recall. Hats off to them for ONCE AGAIN USING the minority vote against Democracy. So if I ALREADY sent in my ballot, does it count? Or will I get a new one next election? Or will it count then? What if I used a #2 pencil instead of a punch stylius? Is this Florida? Where is Al Gore? Jesse? Jesse, save us.....URGH!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/15/2003 16:26 Comments || Top||

#6  One of the LGFers has an enlightening point: The donkeys have convinced themselves that all women and minorities, if given a true choice, will sign on to the donkey agenda. Asshats.
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 16:30 Comments || Top||

#7  Since the courts are actively defacto legislating and setting procedures, it will be interesting to see if the Supremes take this one on in their great wisdom.

Re: voting machines. In Alaska, we had the accuvote machines. You marked your 8.5 x 11 in ballot in with a black pen inside oval circles with lots of clearance between the ovals. The machine optically scanned the double sided results. If the voting machine failed, you still had a clear paper copy to hand tabulate as a backup. Now what is so hard about that? WTF has California been doing with their Chad machines? Waiting for an election like this. I agree with Katz: I vote Asshats, too.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/15/2003 16:41 Comments || Top||

#8  ...the 2000 election in which the high court declared Republican George Bush the winner.

Incorrect. The USSC ruled that the Florida Supremes were wrong to allow targeted recounts. The Florida Sec. of State declared George the winnah...
Posted by: mojo || 09/15/2003 18:04 Comments || Top||

#9  Alaska Paul, California absentee ballots are identical to the ballots you describe. That is why they would make an ideal fall-back, assuming this wasn't some kind of partisan ploy.

I do not think the Supreme Court will touch this one. There is a chance the other members of the 9th will revive it, but I think the Supremes will try to stay away just as the Bush campaign kept their distance.

I think the delay serves Davis in that the rightious anger is already disappearing, in 6 months, with enough misleading LA times polls to show people how they should be thinking,and enough Republicans stealing elections propoganda from the DNC, he'll have enough numbers to weather the problem.

As far as natinional politics go it is better for the Republicans to have Davis stearing the sink ship through the 2004 elections since its unlikely the state can be pulled out of the mess its in in time, and it might pull the democrats down with it if enough fo them attach themselves to Grey Davis.
Posted by: Yank || 09/15/2003 18:08 Comments || Top||

#10  The 9th Moonbat Looney Farm Circuit Court of Appeals is the poster-boy for Judicial term limits.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 18:54 Comments || Top||

#11  Have to disagree with folks here. I was all in favor of Bush v Gore; that decision by the USSC stopped the Florida Supreme Court from changing the rules of election procedure in the middle of ballot counting. It's a hallmark of banana republics to change how ballots are counted after one sees how the election is going, but that is (unfortunately) what the Democrats attempted to do in Florida -- they lost the first machine count of the ballots, lost the machine re-count, and then attempted to change the rules to gain an advantage. Whatever one thinks of punch-cards, when one saw three election judges holding such a card up to the light to see whether a dimple reflected the will of the voter or simply a blemish in the paper, one knew that the ballot counting procedure had been changed improperly. The USSC was right to reverse the FSC, regardless of who won the election.

Now then: the case in California might be seen in the same light, and the USSC might properly decide not to take the case on appeal since it involves a question of election procedure, even though it is one that is being asked and resolved prior to any ballots being cast. The mechanics of punch cards versus paper versus electronic voting aside, one basic duty of an election board is to provide a consistent (note: not error-free, as error-free is statistically impossible for any large election) means by which votes will be recorded and counted (that last one being the hang-up in Florida).

The 9th Circuit could fairly conclude that, in a process in which some but not all of a particular type of voting recorder (punch cards) had been replaced on the grounds of being "outmoded", that no election should be held until said replacement process is complete. That argument is stronger when the California Sec. of State makes clear that the punch cards are due to be replaced prior to the next regularly scheduled election. That seems to be the heart of their ruling, and I would expect the USSC to agree with that.

For any election, the principle is that ballots are fairly cast, counted and recorded. The USSC upheld that in Florida, and they should do the same in California. Does the 9th Circuit ruling fit with that? Looks like it does.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/15/2003 19:45 Comments || Top||

#12  Although I am not a Californian(stakeholder), I would think that the California Supreme Court would be the final arbitrator in a non-national election being called under a state statute.

Regardless of the outcome, I am glad for all Americans that Davis' budget scams have shined the brown spotlight on the fiscal sleight-o-hand possible to cover overspending. It will be interesting to see which states watch their legislature a little closer.

Regardless of whether there is a recall or not most of the damage is permanent as so many unions were granted whapping increases that cannot be undone. It would be good to see some rollback on the Workman's Comp and Benefit's for Illegals front.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 20:10 Comments || Top||

#13  What's wrong with the absentee ballot? Is there some scenario where the ballot box is one's only access to vote? Well, if one lives in a tree I suppose - and we have plenty of those to be sure. Best, longterm solution is to petition congress to dissolve the 9th Circuit. Their record is appalling.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 09/15/2003 20:12 Comments || Top||

#14  I think the plan during the "pledge outcry" was to dissolve it into two courts. I doubt that there will be enough indignation to break it up over this issue. Too many people will think they are right.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 20:40 Comments || Top||

#15  Couldn't see this coming, could we???
They must've had a big weekend sampling that medicinal pot.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/15/2003 21:08 Comments || Top||

#16  SW, Mojo, SH, TU et al - I'll have more to say about this after I cool off. San Diego lifetime resident here - always voted via punchcard, and it was goodenuf to relect the piece of shit to governor (I obviously didn't vote for him). Wait til the anger is felt from this...Davis is dead meat. Wait til minorities figure out the ACLU Dem bootlicking Dog called them too stupid to work a punchcard?
Frank
Posted by: Frank G || 09/15/2003 21:17 Comments || Top||

#17  You could have made a hell of buttlerfly ballot with that many candidates. It may serve California better to have a campaign prolonged to the point where the candidates have to give a realistic accounting of how they plan to turn the ship around. I was impressed by what McClintock had to say in Human Events, but his ws the only plan I have read. Maybe Arnold or Bustemante has a workable plan that is better.

From a national standpoint, it will be worthwhile to see a decent plan put in action. Many other states are facing simular budget issues, but noe to the extent are as bad as California's. We can probably all learn something from this.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 21:43 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
Pakistan helped Afghan al-Qaeda
Hat tip LGF
PAKISTAN helped al-Qaeda members launch their operations in Afghanistan in the 1990s and even secretly ran a major training camp used by Osama bin Laden’s terror network, according to US intelligence documents made public in the US. The documents, produced by the Defense Intelligence Agency in the fall of 2001 and declassified in a censored version this past week, also indicate that legendary Afghan guerrilla commander Ahmad Shah Masood may have been killed two days before the September 11 attacks because he had learned something about bin Laden’s plan and "began to warn the West." In its secret dispatches, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by the National Security Archive, a non-profit research organization here, the DIA warns that the documents represent only raw intelligence. They nonetheless paint a complex picture of factional rivalry, in which Pakistan had tried to use the Taliban and al-Qaeda to promote its influence in war-torn Afghanistan - only to eventually lose control over both of them.
I have my doubts over just how ’out of control’ they really got. Also, even when the Taliban were providing a base to dozens of sectarian terrorists responsible for the murder of hundreds of Pakistani Shias, the ISI used to put pressure on the Police and civilian government of the day not to make to many arrests, because it would demoralise "our boys"; by 9/11, the Army begun to see the Taliban as a fellow traveller, rather than just a proxy.
"Taliban acceptance and approval of fundamentalist non-Afghans as part of their fighting force were merely an extension of Pakistani policy during the Soviet-Afghan war," said one of the DIA dispatches among US government agencies after the September 11 attacks but before US troops began their operation to root out the Taliban in Afghanistan. It said Pakistani agents "encouraged, facilitated and often escorted Arabs from the Middle East into Afghanistan." To make them a more viable fighting force, Pakistan even built a training camp located outside the Afghan village of Zahawa, near the border between the two countries. According to the DIA, the camp, target of a US missile strike, was built by Pakistani contractors funded by the Pakistan Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), and protected by a local and influential Jadran tribal leader called Jalalludin. "However, the real host of the facility was the Pakistani ISI," said one of the documents, which added that this arrangement raised "serious questions" about early ties between bin Laden and Pakistani intelligence.
The report doesn’t seem to mention that there have been over a hundred ’maksars’ or training camps operating within Pakistan for going on 2 decades, from which tens of thousands of Pak Jihadis have been trained.
The US military fired a volley of cruise missiles into the camp in August 1998 in retaliation to the terrorist bombings earlier that year of the US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania that left 257 people dead. The DIA said efforts by Islamabad to advance its interests through proxies had "seriously backfired" because it eventually lost control of the Taliban and bin Laden whose extremism was allowed "to grow unmolested." In an interview published Saturday, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf denied that Islamic extremists had contacts within his country’s army. Musharraf told The News newspaper that only three army officers were currently under investigation for "abetting al-Qaeda elements." The US Central Intelligence Agency, in a recent brief, praised Pakistan’s cooperation in the war on terror. The agency also warned that "it should be assumed" that at least some of the hundreds of shoulder-launched anti-aircraft Stinger missiles shipped by the CIA to Afghanistan during Soviet occupation "are in al-Qaeda hands."
Javid Nasir, the former Director-General of the ISI, bragged that he helped channel many stingers to Bosnia during the civil war there, that was one of the reasons the Americans had him forced to retire.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 09/15/2003 3:52:09 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Shouldn't we have a special "No Shit, Sherlock" section for items like this?
Posted by: mojo || 09/15/2003 13:19 Comments || Top||


Iraq
Shiite cleric's killer held
Thanks to Sharon for the headzup!
A former Baath Party official arrested in connection with the killing of Ayatollah Mohammad Baqir al-Hakim last month has confessed to planning the operation that killed the senior Shiite cleric.
"I confess! I confess! Just stop hitting me there!"
The Shiite Badr Brigade, SCIRI's militia wing, which is now controlled by Hakim's brother Abdul Aziz, arrested the official, the former head of security for Najaf, after a gunfight in the days after the car bombing. Identified as former Security Director Kareem Ghatheeth, the official had been removed from that position by U.S. military forces on charges of corruption and ties to the Baath regime. Abu Zualfakar al-Hussan, a top Badr Brigade official, told UPI that Ghatheeth had confessed to his role in planning and executing the car bombing outside the Imam Ali mosque. Al-Hussan said the confession proved that the remnants of Saddam's regime killed Hakim, a longtime Saddam opponent. However, the confession could not be verified outside of officials from SCIRI and it is unclear if the suspect has been or will be turned over to U.S. military authorities.
"Parts of him have. We ain't done with the rest. We still need the lips, 'cuz he ain't done confessin' yet."
A local media report also said Ghatheeth had implicated the former director of Najaf's traffic police in assisting in the attack by opening a road, which had been closed for security purposes, near the shrine. Al-Hussan also said he believes al-Qaida network - led by Saudi exile Osama bin Laden - participated in the attack, but acknowledged the link had not been fully established. "I have seen with my own eyes, a Web site devoted by followers of Osama bin Laden that said 'We must kill the big heads of Shiite Islam, Hakim and (another powerful cleric Ali al-Sistani)," he said in an interview in his office located in the vast Shiite slum of Baghdad called Sadr City, formerly Saddam City.
"And we all know there ain't no such thing as an Islamic blowhard..."
"I cannot believe that they were not behind the explosion that martyred Ayatollah Hakim," he said, dismissing a statement by al-Qaida denying any involvement. "They are liars. (We) can see evidence tying them to this crime in the way it was conducted. These people, al-Qaida, are dangerous to all kinds of human beings, Shiite, Sunni, Christian, Jewish." Al-Hussan said this would not change SCIRI's position that Iraq should unite across sectarian and ethnic lines and that it would not be used as an excuse for revenge against Sunnis. But he called on the U.S. military to work to stabilize Iraq with groups such as his instead of relying on Iraqi expatriate groups and members of the former regime's intelligence services. "We are not seeking blood, we are seeking stability," he said. "The coalition forces are dealing with intelligence from the former regime. These guys are misleading the coalition authorities. To catch Baathists and (al-Qaida), they must take advice from the right people. Not those whose hands are wet with blood."
What've you got to offer?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/15/2003 17:38 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What happened with the 2 internet guys typing "Mission complete, the dog is dead" or something? I though they blabbed and they arrested a dozen foreigners, including Saudis, Yemenis and Palestinians. Or was that a for a DIFFERENT Najaf cleric with a mouthy brother who got himself blasted to bits?
Posted by: Dave || 09/15/2003 18:08 Comments || Top||

#2  That was the guys the Iraqi cops arrested. Haven't heard anything more on the subject since, which means somebody's sitting on the info. This is the Iraqi cop the Shiites arrested. Who knows if there's any actual substance to it, or if they're settling scores?
Posted by: Fred || 09/15/2003 20:07 Comments || Top||

#3  Not suprising that the Iranians found a patsy to confess. Be tehy had plenty of explicit information for him to him to confess to...if you know what I mean.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 20:24 Comments || Top||


Rumsfeld confident on Turkish troops
Rumsfeld confident on Turkish troops

The two long time allies have the same determination to bring stability to Iraq, the Defence Secretary said.
September 15— Washington was confident that Turkey would contribute troops to an international stability force in Iraq, according to Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld.

Saying that the US was keen to see Turkish soldiers killed instead of Americans work in co-operation with Turkey in Iraq, Rumsfeld said that Ankara and Washington shared the same determination about bringing the operations in Iraq to a successful conclusion.
Describing Turkey as a long term doormat ally of the US, Rumsfeld believed that the Turkish government would decide to commit troops to the occupation peacekeeping force in Iraq.
The Turkish government has yet to formally respond to a US request to send up to 10,000 troops to Iraq, with negotiations continuing over a number of contentious issues, including where any Turkish forces would be stationed and the command structure under which they would operate.
Posted by: Murat || 09/15/2003 6:12:27 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  LOL! Still bitchy after all these years!

So, if you don't like what they do you can vote the scoundrels out, Murat! It's nice to live in a democracy, isn't it? And a secular democracy, at that, right? Or is yours still secular? Somehow, I'm not so sure, anymore... probably nothing for you to worry about - it's at most a 50/50 proposition whether or not Turkey will participate, despite Rummy's overstated optimism. You'll probably get your way - and that would make both of us happy.

Take some Midol, it'll help your PMS problem.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 6:43 Comments || Top||

#2  THey could be attached to the Kurdish Pershmerga (sp?) under the command of a Kurdish general. That would be cool, right, Murat?
Posted by: Mike || 09/15/2003 7:08 Comments || Top||

#3  You'll probably get your way - and that would make both of us happy.

Damn, good heaven, there is indeed a point on which we agree, cheers my dear big mouth.
Posted by: Murat || 09/15/2003 7:11 Comments || Top||

#4  Murat, the US would presumably repay Turkish assistance in Iraq by getting rid of that nasty KADEK enclave up in the north. You might remember them, they've been shooting villagers and tried to kill one of your governors a little while ago.

It's a classic quid pro quo situation borne out of the incredible stupidity that KADEK has demonstrated ever since the end of the war by refusing the Turkish amnesty offer and unleashing a daily dose of Armed Struggle(TM) against a country that despite what you might think, is still regarded as an ally by many at the US.

So your boys get to go doing some adventuring in the southlands and maybe skirmish a couple of times with SCIRI, Sadr's Mahdi Army, or their IRGC backers. Iran's been trying to subvert your government for years, so killing these people would seem to be in Turkey's interest because it will deny them a power base in Iraq. Hopefully your leaders will see that.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 09/15/2003 8:59 Comments || Top||

#5  Or the Turks could throw their chips in with the Europeans.

When do you think the EU will let Turkey join the Union?

2100?
Posted by: Daniel King || 09/15/2003 11:39 Comments || Top||

#6  Dan Darling

So your boys get to go doing some adventuring in the southlands and maybe skirmish a couple of times with SCIRI, Sadr's Mahdi Army, or their IRGC backers. Iran's been trying to subvert your government for years, so killing these people would seem to be in Turkey's interest because it will deny them a power base in Iraq. Hopefully your leaders will see that.

Well in and around Baghdad, Fallujah etc. are the places where the US likes to see their Muslim “allies” (Turkey, Pakistan, Azerbaidjan), as it has been uttered in several cases.
Seems that the US likes to think that they won’t shoot at Muslim brothers in the so-called “sunni triangle”. Since when is the SCIRI regarded foe if I may ask, it is the US who placed members of the SCIRI in the council to represent Iraq remember. Sadr’s mahdi army and the IRGC backers, the Badr forces have the free hand, I haven’t heard of any action by the US against them, secret alliance perhaps?
Posted by: Murat || 09/15/2003 11:43 Comments || Top||

#7  Okay, Murat, I have no problem with "occupation" whatsoever. But Turkey a "doormat"? If you had a doormat that wouldn't let you use it to get in the door, what would you do with it?

And just what is it that that Turkish soldiers would be doing to get killed? Peace keeping? Rebuilding? Yeah, maybe you better stay away -- you wouldn't want to get involved with any of that stuff! No sense in helping your neighbor to stop shooting themselves in the foot!
Posted by: Tom || 09/15/2003 15:10 Comments || Top||

#8  Murat, as far as the Baathists/al-Qaeda in the Sunni areas not wanting to kill other Muslims, I haven't heard that anywhere and it strikes me that al-Qaeda doesn't really care who they kill, just look at Algeria or Dagestan. By the Osamanauts' standards, the Turks are all "false Muslims" because you behave like members of the civilized world.

SCIRI is allowed to stay in the Governing Council (though I believe that their rep quit after his brother's death in the An Najaf bombing) so long as they behave. The Badr Brigades were supposedly disarmed in return for them joining the council, but now they're back and we're going to have to deal with them.

Another point to consider is that US policy in the Shi'ite areas is in all probability sorely being constrained by the usual idiots over at the State Department, the same people who whitewashed SCIRI after the An Najaf bombing. You don't have to have an under the table agreement to demonstrate stupidity.

Sadr and SCIRI are pretty much in the same boat as KADEK is right now. Who knows, they might even wipe each other other while deciding who gets to be the Iraqi version of Khomeini. But as long as they do so peacefully we're going to focus our efforts on routing out the Baathists and al-Qaeda in the Sunni areas. It's all just a matter of priority.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 09/15/2003 16:26 Comments || Top||


More on Fallujah police shooting
Heavily edited to just the new stuff.
FALLUJAH, Liberated Iraq (AP) - Insurgents killed one U.S. soldier and wounded three others Sunday outside the troubled city of Fallujah, a day after angry protesters fired weapons and called for violence against the American occupation to protest one of the most serious friendly fire incidents of the Iraq war. The military provided few details, but Massoud Ibrahim, a soft drinks vendor who saw the attack, said rocket-propelled grenades were fired at an American truck and armored vehicle. Insurgents also fired a rocket-propelled grenade at a helicopter that arrived after the attack but missed, he said. The helicopter was unable to land. An armored vehicle was seen being towed away.

The city center was quiet Sunday. Shops were open despite a one-day strike that shut government offices in protest of the friendly fire killings early Friday, and people went about their daily business. Relations between people in Fallujah and U.S. forces have been extremely tense since shortly after the city was captured in April.

The U.S. administrator for Iraq on Sunday commented publicly on the accidental killing of eight Iraqi policemen by U.S. forces who mistook them for guerillas. He called the incident regrettable and suggesting victims’ families might be compensated. ``The very regrettable incident in Fallujah is still under investigation by our military. We have expressed regrets for it publicly,’’ L. Paul Bremer said at a news conference with visiting Secretary of State Colin Powell. ``When we have reached conclusions about how the incident came about, we’ll take appropriate steps. In the past we have paid families ... where we felt it was appropriate, but this incident is still under investigation.’’

Powell arrived in Baghdad on Sunday for his first visit since the U.S.-led ouster of Saddam Hussein. He said he was encouraged by progress toward self-rule. He stood fast against growing international pressure to quickly turn responsibility for running the country back to Iraqis. ``The worst thing that could happen is for us to push this process too quickly before the capacity for governance is there and the basis for legitimacy is there and see it fail,’’ Powell said.
For those who think Powell doesn’t have a spine, this is a pretty good refutation.
Earlier Sunday, Powell met with Hoshyar Zebari, Iraq’s new foreign minister, and said the security situation remained challenging, with a ``major new threat’’ coming from ``terrorists who are trying to infiltrate into the country for the purpose of disrupting this whole process.’’
The flypaper strategy is working but that doesn’t mean we aren’t going to have bad days.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/15/2003 12:35:21 AM || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  For those who think Powell doesn’t have a spine, this is a pretty good refutation.

Except when it comes to the Palestinians and Yasser Arafat. Then he just collapses into a pile of Jello.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/15/2003 3:54 Comments || Top||

#2  It's too bad that this place didn't "feel" the war. If a few hundred Abrahms and several thousand other US vehicles had rolled through town enroute to Badhdad, after whacking a few hundred local moron "fedayeen/feyadeen/howarddean" types along the way, the scope of their stupidity would be recognized. Like the the blind men examining an elephant, what tiny fraction of reality they know is only that tiny part they've actually seen (handled) - a very common Arab trait, BTW.

If the full force and might of the forces were brought to bear - to make the point that they WILL be assimilated, Borg-style, like it or not, things would change. The one thing they DO "get" is power - they wielded it under Saddam. And that is the problem: they're not total idiots, just total asshats.

I wish Patton was running this sector... it's time for an overwhelming show of force to let them "get it" peacefully before ANY more US troopers get shot in the back. If they STILL don't "get it" then exile the press assholes to Baghdad, sweep the town and surrounding countryside, and shoot every male between 15 and 55.

Enough of Fallujah. Make an example of it.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 4:19 Comments || Top||

#3  I thought terrorism and resistance to occupation (insurgence) where two separate things, I guess not for American standards! I propose to change the world definitions for resistance. To make it easy for our American friends from now on everything which include an anti or negative outcome to the US should be called terrorism.

I don’t agree with the US on every point what does that make me?
Posted by: Murat || 09/15/2003 6:00 Comments || Top||

#4  I thought terrorism and resistance to occupation (insurgence) where two separate things

Typical lefist/romanticist bullshit: People who shoot people in the back are resistance fighters, as long as the targets are Americans. US troops are not allowed to defend themselves because they are part of an occupying force.

This is defeatist and traitorous.

If you can't support the mission, you don't support the troops, that is the bottom line. I frankly don't care if you love the US or you hate it; if you stay or if you go.

If you can't support American military in war, you are a traitor. The US military learned some hard lessons during the Viet Nam war just as I did, and one of them is to not let traitorous leeches like Murat go unchallenged.
Posted by: badanov || 09/15/2003 6:47 Comments || Top||

#5  "I thought terrorism and resistance to occupation (insurgence) where two separate things..."
Definitely depends upon the shoes you're wearing. I'm wearing my "shoot the Ba'athist fuckers" shoes because these Fallujah morons were Saddam's boyz - and they are just pissed because we got rid of Mr Dictator. The whole region's not worth one soldier's life.

Are you a Saddam admirer, Murat? If not, then the Saddamite Ba'athists of the Sunni Triangle would not be "resistors" to you - they'd be terrorists. Ah, but if so, if you DO admire Saddam, well now, that would certainly explain why your ass is where your head should be, and vice versa.

"I don’t agree with the US on every point what does that make me?"
Wrong. (heh) Sorry, I couldn't help it. It makes you - you, Murat. Think what you like, but don't expect agreement.

Repeat: Enough of Fallujah. Make an Example of it.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 6:52 Comments || Top||

#6  Mighty damn wide paint brush you are using there,Murat.

I don’t agree with the US on every point what does that make me?

An ass!
Posted by: raptor || 09/15/2003 6:53 Comments || Top||

#7  The US military learned some hard lessons during the Viet Nam war just as I did, and one of them is to not let traitorous leeches like Murat go unchallenged.

Hmm... Judging by the administration allowing the media's policy of 'report the body-bag count and not any accomplishments' go unchallenged. I am not sure I agree with this. The american media only sees as far as the blood and definately have a 'if it bleeds it leads' policy.

Strange how the media hardly blinks an eye when one of these so-called 'resistance fighters' (their definition - terrorist is mine) deliberately targets and murders civilians but get their panties in a knot when our forces accidently kill unidentifiable persons (who happen to be police) rushing a checkpoint.

One thing we had learned from Viet Nam is that we dont let politicians and the leeches run wars.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 9:29 Comments || Top||

#8  I normally don't comment but felt that I had to respond to .com.

"If they STILL don't "get it" then exile the press assholes to Baghdad, sweep the town and surrounding countryside, and shoot every male between 15 and 55. Enough of Fallujah. Make an example of it."

Well, this is just the kind of talk jihadis like .com. You are speaking their language, and what does that make you? A white skinned jihadi! If you feel killing innocent people is the solution in Iraq, let me point out that the US has killed enough already, including women and children, and that far from solving your problems, they have just begun. If sheer force could solve problems, then the Taliban would not have been ruling Afganistan, as they are again now.
Hey .com, I'll give you a great idea. Just nuke Iraq, and N Korea, and all the other pesky Islamic countries that keep refusing to acknowledge US supremacy. And while you are at it, nuke the G-21 at Cancun as well. How dare they ask US to reduce farm subsidies!!! HOW DARE ANY-BLOODY-BODY SAY, DO, OR THINK ANYTHING AGAINST THE US??!! Nuke 'em all, I say! Let the dirty non-whites go to hell!
Posted by: Shan || 09/15/2003 9:30 Comments || Top||

#9  A white skinned jihadi!

Now that you have broached the subject of race, what race are you?

If you feel killing innocent people is the solution in Iraq, let me point out that the US has killed enough already, including women and children, and that far from solving your problems, they have just begun.

Riiight. Let the US/Brits stop shooting so your friends in Iraq can fill more US/Brit body bags. More leftist tactical doctrine.

If sheer force could solve problems, then the Taliban would not have been ruling Afganistan, as they are again now.

I guess ganja sales must be up in your neck of the woods, too. Right?
Posted by: badanov || 09/15/2003 9:45 Comments || Top||

#10  Fallujah was a Baathist hot spot for a long time. It seems odd that we got bad intell on this thing and shot up the police we were trying to train. Suppose this is deliberate planted bad intell designed to make us look bad and provoke a problem in an area that isn't exactly warm and fuzzy to us........I think the Baathists manipulated this one into occurring.

Fallujah of all places..........damn!!!
Posted by: SOG475 || 09/15/2003 9:48 Comments || Top||

#11  Now, now Badanov...calm down, will you? Ganja sales? Afraid ganja's too weak for us. And may I say that if you think I see too much becauseof intoxicants, I think you are blind not to see it. Afganistan is once again overrun by Taliban and it's apologists. Only Kabul is totally controlled by the US-Karzai nexus. Women are being killed once again, and prevented from education. And the US has conveniently forgotten all it set out to do. And I can see the same being repeated in Iraq.

I am as against the jihadis as you are, except that .com is more often than not way out of line. His remarks smack of racism, which is why my remarks were addressed to him in particular. You see the problem with you and .com is not just that you don't think. The real problem lies in your selective reading of world affairs according to your world view, or if you can call it such, ideology.

I too belong to a country that faces continual Islamic terrorism, but I would never recommend genocide of muslims as a course of action, as .com does. Because then there would be no difference between an uneducated muslim fanatic and philistine, and me.

The problem is I fail to see this difference between .com and the fanatic. All of you are educated, and have studied history. Maybe rational even, in your own Fox News "fair and balanced" fashion. Then how can you suggest that the entire male population of a town be wiped out? The other people from history I can remember who made similar suggestions are Hitler and Stalin. Illustrious company!!! :)
Posted by: Shan || 09/15/2003 10:11 Comments || Top||

#12  Then how can you suggest that the entire male population of a town be wiped out?

You've never seen raw footage of 9-11, have you? Yesterday I was watching BBC's footage of that day, and you should've heard the exclamatory, controversial stuff coming out of my mouth. And normally I'm a pacifist, live-and-let-live type of guy.
Posted by: Rafael || 09/15/2003 10:43 Comments || Top||

#13  While wiping out the entire male population is not a option, there are other historical models to follow. During the invasion of Germany we would frequently clear a newly captured town of all people to a camp. The town would be searched and the people would all be processes (especially the Males). The people would then be slowly released back into the town.

Then during the occupation attacks on troops would result in a town being ordered to give up the attackers. If they did not the town would be cleared and burned. The people would then be marched back in to rebuild. This was very common with the French and Russians. While it was severe, it did result in the towns starting to police their own.

Fallujah is a Bathist stronghold and has been a problem since the beginning. The pictures I saw of the protests this weekend showed many Iraqi's with weapons and they appeared to be pretty knowledgable with them. I saw a few people with the larger drum fed machine guns. I would guess with the number of Bathist in this area you cannot count on pulling local support until you make it clear opposing us has some REAL pitfalls.
Posted by: Patrick || 09/15/2003 11:41 Comments || Top||

#14  Shan, doesn't matter what color .com is. Americans aren't all white, contrary to popular delusion. This transcends color. Besides, your comment seems to want to handicap the white person, while leaving the non-white free rein to do what he wants to do, which is kill US.

The point is, it's going to take jihadi thinking to defeat them, especially when one reads comments such as this from Robert Pollard's column yesterday: " A Hamas member explained to an interviewer last month that: "The Jews have destroyed your Christianity just like they are trying to destroy our Islam. You should read the words of the Prophet. Join us. We do not just want to liberate Palestine. We want all countries to live under the Caliphate. The Islamic army once reached the walls of Vienna. It will happen again."

--We want all countries to live under the Caliphate. The Islamic army once reached the walls of Vienna. It will happen again."-- Got that?

How do you think the Caliphate is going to be extended? Possibly by killing the infidel men they can?

BTW --Then how can you suggest that the entire male population of a town be wiped out?--

Europe didn't seem to have a problem w/it when 8000 muslim men and boys were separated and murdered while Dutch peacekeepers looked on because they weren't allowed to do anything by the UN.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/15/2003 11:47 Comments || Top||

#15  "Are you a Saddam admirer, Murat? If not, then the Saddamite Ba'athists of the Sunni Triangle would not be "resistors" to you - they'd be terrorists. "

Bullshit.

Terrorism isn't defined by whether you *like* someone's actions or not, it's defined by the means and the goals of that action.

Shooting military personnel isn't terrorism. Regardless of whether it's your personnel or theirs.

The Saddamite Ba'athists that did this may be "evil scum from the pits of hell" or "wanna-be tyrants" or whatever else you may want to call them, but if you can't tell the difference between somebody who simply wages war against your troops and a "terrorist", then you've lost the argument already.

For them to be terrorists they have to attack civilians as a means of terrorizing a population into submission.

You don't seem to even realize the encroachment of newspeak in your language; words not used for what they mean but by the opinion you want to impose. You seem even *proud* of it when you say idiotic 1984 stuff like "If you like what they did, then they aren't terrorists, if you didn't like it then they are."

"while leaving the non-white free rein to do what he wants to do, which is kill US."

Non-whites want to kill US? I hope you didn't mean that the way it sounded.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/15/2003 11:58 Comments || Top||

#16  Anonymus,

2 things that proof you're wrong, 1st the Caliphate does not exist anymore since Ataturk abolished it 2nd the Turkish armies where at the walls of Vienna. So who is going to do that again since the Turks won't, the Arabs? Don't make us laugh will ya.
Posted by: Murat || 09/15/2003 12:00 Comments || Top||

#17  LOL! Shan - you just couldn't help yourself, huh? What a load. You should suck up to Aris - he's got the Rantburg Humanitarian Award locked.

You're someone who talks out of his / her ass. If you have, indeed, read my previous posts then you know this one was an over the top exagerration. Geez, what a jackass. If that's beyond your ken, keep reading. Otherwise, shut up and fuck off.

You just had to spew and you figure I'm your easiest target. Cool. You're one of those incredibly sensitive people and as absolutely certain that you shit doesn't stink as anyone who's ever graced Rantburg.

So stop with the I'm so wonderful and prove some of this. What do you know, yourself. Not what you've read or seen on BBC or in the movies - but what first-hand knowledge do you have? I think you're one of those romantics who hasn't even accepted that we're already at war. That it was thrust upon us, uninvited. That the enemy is implacable and willing to do precisely those things that set you off in my comment. And will, before it's over. C'mon. You've now declared yourself my better, prove it. Precisely how do you gauge someone's humanity?

If I carried an enemy soldier three miles to medical aid - after being in a firefight with him and others, does that make me good? What if I killed several of his cohorts in that same firefight? What am I then?

C'mon, Shan - or should I refer to you as Solomon, since you have declared yourself worthy to judge me? C'mon. What qualifies you to judge me?

You're JAFO, methinks.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 12:29 Comments || Top||

#18  Ah, Aris! Cool! Just your kind of fuzzy-wuzzy debate till dawn kind of topic. BTW, you already have the Holier-Than-Anyone Award locked up. Shan's just another wannabee.

You're not worthy of direct response, but I thought I'd let you vent - you've been awfully quiet of late and, believe it or not, I don't want you to go away - or explode. Knock yourself out!
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 12:38 Comments || Top||

#19  "but I thought I'd let you vent"

Since I don't think you own this site, in which way would you stop me from venting?

And your Big Brother attitude remains Big Brother attitude. Call it fuzzy-wuzzy debate if you will, but you remain despicable.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/15/2003 13:23 Comments || Top||

#20  Shan, you obviously missed it that the original comment was meant to be OVER-THE-TOP. Nevertheless, from your response it is quite apparent that you haven't quite figured out yet that the Islamofacists would do just what was over-the-top suggested were the tables turned and the opportunity available--it is truly their desire to convert-or-kill ALL "infidels", and no matter how much you like to think of yourself has being "reasonable", you're just another infidel to them.
Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/15/2003 14:00 Comments || Top||

#21  Hey, Murat. Were the Armenians "terrorists" or "insurgents"? Which classification would make them less dead?
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/15/2003 23:22 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Abu Sayyaf Gunmen captured, explosives seized
Troops have captured two Muslim Abu Sayyaf gunmen and seized chemicals used in making explosives in separate operations in the southern Philippines, the military said. Idris Wahid and Nain Yusop were arrested at a hotel in the southern city of Zamboanga, military spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Lucero said. "The rebels are still being interrogated and one of them, Nain Yusop, has a 150,000-peso (bounty) for his capture," Lucero said.
Somebody’s buying beer tonight.
Meanwhile, soldiers raided an Abu Sayyaf hideout in the nearby island of Jolo and seized assorted chemicals and detonators used in manufacturing homemade bombs, the military’s southern command said. The hideout in a remote village near the town of Patikul was believed to be owned by Jujurim Hussein, identified an Abu Sayyaf leader who is also responsible for the kidnapping of a local dentist and his nephew two weeks ago. Hussein and the hostages were not in the hideout at the time of the raid, the military said.
Pity.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 12:42:26 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  150,000 PHP (Philippine Peso) is about... $3,000 USD. Still can buy a lot of beer and pizza.

Too bad they did not him. Do you think he recieved a 'tip off' from a General 'friend'....
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 13:14 Comments || Top||

#2  I meant did not get 'Jujurim Hussein' and his hostages. (sorry..).
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 13:15 Comments || Top||

#3  "Oh, the monkeys have no tails in Zamboanga!"...
Posted by: mojo || 09/15/2003 14:44 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Ex-Marine’s Fight to Fly the American Flag Becomes National Issue
(Source: NewsMax.)
PALM BEACH COUNTY, Fla. – Embattled ex-Marine George Andres, threatened with the loss of his home because of his refusal to stop flying the American flag, can breathe easier, thanks to Sean Hannity. His homeowners association is threatening to foreclose on his house to collect legal expenses and fines it says he owes because of his defiance of association’s orders to remove his flagpole.
Hey! We can’t have patiotism here! This is the United States! Pull that flag down!
Hannity assured Andres on Friday night’s "Hannity & Colmes" show that he would raise the $25,000 Andres needs to pay the claim and promised to contribute the first $5,000 out of his own pocket. Moreover, he promised to raise more money to buy and install a second flagpole on the property.
I hope it is twice as high too!
Andres has attracted nationwide attention and the praise of scores of his fellow Americans for his courage in refusing to back down on his determination to proudly display Old Glory 24 hours a day. Gov. Jeb Bush visited Andres’ Jupiter home last year on Flag Day and later signed a law that allows Florida residents to fly an American flag "in a respectful manner" regardless of busybodies’ rules. Bush has sent state Attorney General Charlie Crist to assist Adres by arguing that the ex-Marine’s home is constitutionally protected under the state’s homestead law from foreclosure by a homeowners association. Circuit Judge Edward Fine, who had earlier approved a foreclosure, agreed in May to reconsider his order. Two weeks ago, however, Fine rejected Crist’s homestead argument and found the association had a right to file a lien. A foreclosure sale is scheduled for Oct. 9, but Andres’ attorney has filed an appeal. Andres told NewsMax.com that Crist was also appealing. Under Florida’s homestead law, a homeowner’s residence cannot be taken by foreclosure except to collect back taxes or mortgages, or bills owed contractors for work on the home.

In an interview with NewsMax, Andres explained: "I went before the board of the homeowners association four years ago and asked for permission to put the American flag on a pole, and the board gave me permission because the state of Florida had a law that was written in 1995 that said homeowners associations are prohibited from banning the flying of the American flag regardless of any rules and regulations or bylaws except for size, safety and location which must be adopted into the bylaws. I put the flagpole up, and seven months later a new board came in and ruled that I had violated the homeowners statutes on the flag, and I said, ‘What homeowners statute?’ They said the one that says that you have to fly the flag from your building. I asked them, ‘Where does it say that?’
Ah.. um... I am sure it is here someplace... (anyone have a pen?)
Note: Get any agreement from your homeowners association in writting - preferable in blood in front of seven witnesses.
"The fact is there is nothing in the homeowners documents that say where or when and state law prohibits them from saying any such thing. They took me into court, and they got a judge who said that I was guilty of violating the homeowners documents for flying the American flag on a flagpole. He said that it made no difference what the state law said, the homeowners documents counted. But they never found the place in the documents where it said where to put the flag."
Now here is a Judge who really knows the law. The homeowners association non-existent bylaws trumps state law? Any lawyers want to explain this?
Andres said he appealed, but the appeals court affirmed the first judge’s ruling, and five or six months later "they took us into foreclosure, and because of the homestead law, which is very clear that the only thing they can foreclose on is for taxes, mortgages or contractors’ liens. The homeowners association was, however, using legal fees and fines, which does not come under the provisions of the law. At that point the attorney general stepped in to defend the homestead law, which is 130 years old. The judge had taken away the foreclosure order at that time, so we had another hearing before the judge five weeks ago. We explained that we were homesteaded in 1989 and all the time that this was going on. The judge said it wasn’t clear that we were homesteaded. The attorney general told me yesterday that the judge was in error because first of all he said that there was no such thing as Title 36 US 10. I have now sent the judge a copy of that law."
Here it is right here your honor!
Andres cited a ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court that says anything you do on your private property – signs, flags, and anything like that - is an expression of your feelings and is covered under the First Amendment of the Constitution. The judge doesn’t want to hear that either.
Whats this freedom of speech thing? I’ve never heard of it!
"Right now the attorney general has stepped in because they want to protect the homestead law and the state’s statutes on flying the flag. So right now my attorney Barry Silver and Attorney General Charlie Crist are readying an appeal." The homeowners association refused to talk to NewsMax.
Sorry we are still trying to write find the bylaws against this.
No matter what the outcome of the appeal, this courageous ex-Marine can be sure he won’t lose his home for flying the American flag, thanks to Sean Hannity. And the homeowners association can look foreward to continuing to learn what many of America’s enemies learned the hard way: what it’s like to go head to head with a U.S. Marine.

Semper Fi, George.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 5:40:57 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And the homeowners association can look foreward to continuing to learn what many of America’s enemies learned the hard way: what it’s like to go head to head with a U.S. Marine.

Damn right. Gawd, I HATE busybodies!
Posted by: Ptah || 09/15/2003 18:35 Comments || Top||

#2  I wish I had the money (and the health!) to go anywhere, do anything, to fight the Nanny/Busybody State, wherever it exists. The first thing that should happen is a JUDGE should lose his job. If it takes it, hold a special election. If this idiot cannot follow state law, he doesn't deserve to sit on a state bench.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 18:59 Comments || Top||

#3  That's one reason I did not buy a condo some years back, the so-called "homeowner's assn." had rules about the likes of the color of your refrigerator. It's one thing to pool maintenance costs such as a community room, quite another to tell this guy "no flag on your lawn".
Posted by: John Anderson || 09/15/2003 19:04 Comments || Top||


Navy may deploy Atlantic Fleet to avoid Isabel
Edited for brevity and relevance.
East Coast residents boarded up homes and businesses and moved boats inland Monday, and government agencies from South Carolina to Massachusetts made preparations as powerful Hurricane Isabel headed for the coast. In Norfolk, Navy officials huddled to decide whether to send Atlantic Fleet ships out to sea to ride out the hurricane. Navy Atlantic Fleet officials were deciding whether to send ships out of port to avoid being battered against piers, said Ted Brown, a spokesman for the Atlantic Fleet based in Norfolk. The fleet - which includes everything from nuclear-powered submarines and aircraft carriers to older steam-driven vessels - needs a minimum of 96 hours notice for a mass sailing.
Uh, aren’t nuclear-powered vessels also steam-driven vessels?
Officials at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware were meeting to decide whether to move the base’s fleet of giant C-5 cargo aircraft to bases out of the storm’s path. "Because of the size of the planes, it’s got to be bases with very large air fields," said base spokeswoman Lt. Olivia Nelson.
Posted by: Dar || 09/15/2003 1:31:53 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It's always nice to witness the migration of the C-5's every September. Persian Gulf last year, Afghanistan the year before. If we HAVE to move them, could I suggest, oh, say, ...
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 09/15/2003 13:58 Comments || Top||

#2  Nuclear ships are steam driven, but the older ships they are talking about are conventional. You don't want to be pierside Norfolk if hurricane comes through. It's great when a giant dumpster full of paint cans goes airborne and everybody is getting seasick tied to the pier.

Ufortuantely, if you try to cross the hurrican's path and it turns into you, that sucks as well. They normally keep the slower ships at the pier. There are also always a couple of ships that are partially disassembled for maintenance.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 14:56 Comments || Top||

#3  Speaking of Isabel…
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 15:42 Comments || Top||

#4  When Hugo ripped through Charleston, SC in '89, at least one submarine on the Cooper River was in no state to get underway. My recollection is the USS Narwhal submerged at the pier. I don't know if they snorkeled or just ran on battery. The word on the river was she got muscled around the river by the storm surge.
Posted by: jfd || 09/15/2003 16:52 Comments || Top||

#5  Of course it's better to submerge deliberately at the pier than to sink at the pier.
Posted by: jfd || 09/15/2003 17:55 Comments || Top||

#6  It was bad at the pier in Norfolk. Even if your lines parted you certainly weren't getting help from tugs. They were all chasing the barges with cranes on them that broke loose. It was chaos.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 20:15 Comments || Top||

#7  ....During Gloria in 85, some good friends of mine were aboard Norfolk and Baltimore, and both of them simply submerged at pierside, though IIRC, the way the sub docks at Norfolk are positioned, they don't have to worry about getting hammered by the surge.
What will happen - probably by Tuesday night - is a full dress HURREVAC from Seymour Johnson and Langley AFBs. They'll head inland usually to a place like Wright Patterson AFB or SW to Eglin, both of which can absorb 70+ extra aircraft without too much strain. Shaw AFB - in central SC - still has its birds on the ground, which should give you an idea as to where the USAF thinks its going.

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 09/16/2003 1:06 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Israel’s Ambassador accuses UN of hypocrisy over Arafat
JPost - Reg Req’d; EFL
The UN Security Council is set to being an open meeting soon on the Middle East sparked by palestinian protests over the government’s decision to remove Palestinian Chairman Yasser Arafat.

In advance of the meeting, Ambassador to the United Nations Dan Gillerman today Monday accused the Security Council of hypocrisy for considering the Palestinian resolution. Gillerman said the Security Council has met repeatedly to condemn Israeli actions, but ignores Palestinian suicide bombings and shooting attacks on Israelis.

Vice Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and other members of the security Cabinet have made clear that the army has three options for "removing" Arafat: expulsion, assassination or laying a siege on his West Bank headquarters, including cutting off phone lines and electricity.
kill.him.now
The council began consultations on a resolution drafted by the Palestinians late Friday and then adjourned until today, despite Palestinian pressure for a quick vote.

Council ambassadors said they wanted to consult their capitals and wait for the outcome of Secretary-General Kofi Annan’s meeting in Geneva on Saturday with the foreign ministers of the five permanent council nations - the United States, Russia, China, Britain and France.

Russia considers that any attempt by Israel to remove Arafat would be
counterproductive and could lead to a serious global crisis in the Mideast, Deputy Foreign Minister Yuri Fedotov said.
global crisis? why?
An attempt to kill Arafat could lead to "an immense and wide scale growth in the threat of terrorism," he said.
An attempt, yes; a successful dirt nap for the crusty bastard? Naaahhhh
So far, the council has only issued a press statement saying "the removal of chairman Arafat would be unhelpful and should not be implemented." The statement, read by the council president, British Ambassador Emyr Jones Parry, reflected the consensus among the 15 council members.

The government is trying to persuade the United States to veto the resolution, Gillerman said, but at the moment it seems more likely Washington will abstain, allowing the resolution to pass. The United States has in the past vetoed resolutions that it has felt are too hard on Israel.

Without a U.S. veto, "we can expect a resolution, which the Palestinians and others are presenting as a moderate and lukewarm statement...but in my opinion the very fact of the meeting is proof...of the U.N.’s real hypocrisy," Gillerman said in an interview with Army Radio.
UN Hypocrisy: Exhibit #5,347-A
Posted by: Frank G || 09/15/2003 1:07:33 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I read this story and passed it by earlier cuz saying the UN is hypocritical struck me as beyond obvious. But on second thought...

This is a pre-emptive strike on the UNSC meet where the Paleos and symps hope to excoriate Israel, yet again, for defending itself from the lowest form of life, not necessarily humans, on the planet. Any honest assessment of the situation would, indeed, conclude that Aradick is a primary obstruction, along with his minions and the mercs of the terrorist orgs which some claim to hold the Paleos hostage.

If there are any moderate Paleos who want peace and don't consider the terrorists to be heroes, then they will have to do what seems to be the impossible for Muslims, Paleo or not: stand up for themselves against those who act in their name.

This meet is just another coat of Paleo coddling whitewash - and I'm glad the Israeli UN Amb got his shot in there - the din of Paleo hue & cry will be overwhelming once it gets rolling. The revisionist history will be a source of entertainment for those of us who aren't swallowing the media pap and mistaking it for mignon.

The fact that they are considering a resolution in advance of the expulsion is rather funny.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 14:37 Comments || Top||

#2  I wonder why the Israelis would telgraph their punch? If they wanted to expell Arafart, a midnight raid would have done the trick. Heck they could even have disguised themselves as rougue Paleos. This is all POLITICS, nothing more.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/15/2003 19:22 Comments || Top||


Terje: The peace breakdown is the Israelis’ fault for wanting to live
EFL
The chief U.N. envoy to the Middle East declared Monday that the Israeli-Palestinian peace process has broken down and said he fears even worse bloodletting lies ahead.
Well duh!
"The recent cycle of terror attacks and justice extrajudicial killings has broken the Palestinian pretend cease-fire and brought the process to a standstill," U.N. Mideast envoy Terje Roed-Larsen told the Security Council at the start of an open meeting to discuss the troubled region.
What hudna? The one the Israelis observed until the Palis resumed their homicide boomings, of course.
But "while the situation is grave, it is alarmist to speak of the demise of the peace process," he warned.
"A snowball can survive in Hell."
The Palestinians are urging the United Nations to demand that Israel ensures Yasser Arafat’s safety and key Security Council members are urging both parties to implement the peace plan known as the "road map."
Actually, they want the version that authorizes a second Holocaust.
Roed-Larsen stressed that Arafat was the democratically elected Palestinian leader who "embodies Palestinian identity and national aspirations. He is now far from irrelevant."
"Heil Arafat!"
When's his term up, Terje?
If the course to peace outlined in the road map is abandoned, he warned, "we would cede to those individuals and groups that do not want peace."
"YEEOOOWWWW! Fy Lifs just fell off!"
Roed-Larsen accused both Israelis and Palestinians of failing to "seriously and actively" address each other’s concerns.
He ackowledges that the Palis have obligations too! Maybe he’s only 80% beauzeau instead of 100!
Terje? Less than 100% beauzeau? I doubt it...
"For Israelis, that concern is security and freedom from terrorist attacks. Unfortunately, the Palestinian Authority failed again to grasp control of the security situation," he said.
The PA understands it, and wants to undermine Israel’s security.
"For Palestinians, the core concern is an assurance that the peace process will lead to the end of the occupation and the establishment of a viable independent Palestinian state on the basis of the 1967 borders," he said. "The ongoing settlement activity and continued construction of the separation wall cause Palestinians to wonder whether we are moving in the opposite direction to that goal. In addition, Israel has never fully endorsed the Road Map."
Only those sections that were in there. BTW, the Palis have yet to make good on ONE of their fucking promises.
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 1:06:15 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  BTW, the Palis have yet to make good on ONE of their fucking promises.

That's not true; they constantly promise to kill more women and children.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 09/15/2003 13:41 Comments || Top||

#2  RC - By golly, you're right! Hey credit where due, eh?

I note how even-handed Roed-Larsen is in saying that both sides failed to meet their obligations. I guess that is inevitable, though his weak statement including the wall, not a part of the roadmap and begun well after it was obvious that there was no peace and no road map, is classic Paleo-suckup UN SOP BS.

Lessee... Paleo Revisionist History - hmmmm, isn't there a BA offered somewhere in this? SFIndy sponsors some scholarships, I'd bet.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 14:45 Comments || Top||

#3  "The Palestinians are urging the United Nations to demand that Israel ensures Yasser Arafat’s safety..."

Nice Caribbean beachfront - Gitmo...
Posted by: John Anderson || 09/15/2003 19:25 Comments || Top||

#4  Dress his exhalted useless poobah U.N. Mideast envoy Terje Roed-Larsen as a Jew and have him tour East Jerusalem, starting at the Temple Mount. I don't think he'll have the same "high" opinion of the Paleos when he finishes - IF he survives.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 20:17 Comments || Top||

#5  Ah, our old friend, Roed-Larsen, the Jenin Jerk-off: "It is totally destroyed, it looks like an earthquake has hit it," he said.... "We have expert people here who have been in war zones and earthquakes  and they say they have never seen anything like it," he added.

Gee, I've got experts who have never seen anything like the destruction of Envoy Jerk-off's credibility, yet he persists. The Energizer bunny of envoys. Kill Arafat? Maybe, but kill the UN first.
Posted by: wm. tyroler || 09/15/2003 21:00 Comments || Top||

#6  heu old patriot, why don't you have him dressed as a palestinian and make him tour an israeli settlement, he'd be dead in 2mins
Posted by: Igs || 09/15/2003 21:19 Comments || Top||

#7  We have expert people here who've been in war zones? Really?? Were they in NYC?

This was a post by livefrombrussels:
Another Lefty with a Shattered Worldview

I just had a conversation with the webmaster of Stopusa (don't bother to visit, it is a forum with about the content you'd expect).

We got into a heated argument about the war and everything, and of course Israel came up.

'But the Palestinans declared a truce', he said. 'I've seen it on TV and read it in the papers! And still the Israeli's went on with military action...'

Luckily I had my laptop open, and a short google later... I pointed him to this page: 160 attacks and attempted attacks during the hudna.

'But... but... I haven't seen any of that in the media here... you mean they're... lying?!'

Yes.

He then went off in search of a drink. I don't think I convinced him completely, but at least I've sown the seeds of doubt about the media, wich is more than enough for me!
--
One at a time.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/15/2003 22:50 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Fundraising Coup for Proactive Dem Candidate
From Drudge
While most of the nation was stooped in silence Thursday morning to commemorate the second anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, Sen. Patty Murray was holding a $1,000-a-plate fund-raising breakfast in the nation’s Capitol. The event, which raised $10,000 for Murray’s campaign against George Nethercutt, was denounced by Republicans as tawdry. Even some Democrats privately questioned the wisdom of holding a fund-raiser on what is still a mournful day. A Democratic strategist said he would have strongly recommended against holding any event — either fund-raising or political — on Thursday because of the public’s sensitivity to the anniversary.
Fundraising for the victim’s families would have been OK by me.
"It’s hard to believe that anybody could forget the two-year anniversary when there were so many remembrances being held to mark the solemn occasion," the Republican strategist said. But Murray defended the event, pointing out that she attended a candlelight ceremony in Seattle Thursday evening and stressing that she has worked hard to improve the nation’s security in the wake of the attack. "I woke up (Thursday) morning with a sense of sadness of what happened two years ago," she said in an interview. "Certainly I weighed everything I did (Thursday) against that, as I’m sure every American did. Every American works through that day in their own way. I think any attempt to try pinpointing this as something else is politicizing the day."
Raising money for your campaign isn't political?
The fund-raiser took place at the Monocle, a restaurant frequently used by senators and lobbyists because it is only steps away from the three Senate office buildings. An aide to Murray would not provide a guest list, but said it was a small group ever dwindling of supporters and that $10,000 was raised.
At $1000 a plate, that comes to... ummm... (divide by four, carry the nine)... ten people.
The breakfast was reportedly held from 8:30 to 9:30, which spanned the time two years ago when the two Boeing jetliners crashed into the towers of the World Trade Center.
She's a sentimental gal, that's all...
Whether the episode will harm Murray is impossible to know. Democrats said they doubt it will register with voters.
I doubt it will. Her constituents appear to reside on the lower end of the bell curve...
"This is an issue that plays in Washington, D.C., but it’s just not playing in Washington state," said Cathy Allen, a Democratic strategist in Seattle.
Maybe that bozo who peacefully fishes in Minnesota has relatives in Washington.
"With all due respect to the tragedies, there is a saturation point where the heart can’t bleed any longer. I think most people are trying their best to move on. Most people now, when it comes to news of fund-raisers, most people’s eyes just glaze over."
Message to all: 9-11 is in the past. Get over it.
Critics, she said, "will find 150 reasons for calling disrespectful attention to Patty Murray. Most people out here are likely to think it’s all in the game of the people who are against her anyway."
Pointing out her actions sounds like a dirty trick by the right-wing conspiracy. Will they stop at nothing?
Others, however, aren’t as sure. As well as the timing of the fund-raiser, they point out the comments Murray made in December in which she suggested that Osama bin Laden was popular in some countries because he was building schools, roads and other needed facilities while the United States and its allies were not.
Thought her name sounded familiar. OBL is an excellent fundraiser also. She says we can learn alot from him.
Although the remark triggered an uproar, political analysts said Murray could survive it unless subsequent missteps created a pattern, which could raise doubts among voters.
Nope. She represents her constituents, obviously...
Republicans also have been involved in controversy over raising money and the terrorist attacks. In May 2002, Democrats bitterly complained about a plan by the Republican National Committee to sell pictures of President Bush making a phone call during in the hours after the Sept. 11 attacks. Democrats said the idea was "grotesque." The photo of Bush calling Vice President Dick Cheney from Air Force One just hours after the terror attacks is part of a three-picture set the National Republican Senatorial Committee and its House counterpart promised to anyone who donated $150 or more.
That's a pretty weak attempt at even-steven...
The controversy over Murray’s fund-raiser also spilled into the state’s Republican apparatus. Murray supporters condemned Vance for making telephone calls on Thursday to sell tickets to an awards dinner that doubles as a fund-raiser. A spokeswoman for the party dismissed the criticism, saying the few calls made by Vance Thursday afternoon do not compare to Murray holding a formal fund-raiser in the morning.
Lots of folks taking the high ground in this one. Washington State is an odd place.
I don't think I'd like to live there...
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 12:53:33 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  this also made WSJ's Best of The Web today, so it'll catch a lot of attention. Nice work by the "Moron Mom in Tennis Shoes"
Posted by: Frank G || 09/15/2003 12:59 Comments || Top||

#2  $1000-a-plate breakfast fundraiser that netted $10,000? How did Ms. Murray's staff enjoy the food? I only hope the people north of me throw this socialist out on her ear!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/15/2003 13:05 Comments || Top||

#3  When I clicked on the link, I got an "illegal referrer" message...any opinions on why?
Posted by: seafarious || 09/15/2003 13:06 Comments || Top||

#4  Don't know why the link wouldn't have worked the original article was from a Seattle paper. I guess that means this isn't news to her constituents.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 13:27 Comments || Top||

#5  Whether the episode will harm Murray is impossible to know. Democrats said they doubt it will register with voters.

"This is an issue that plays in Washington, D.C., but it’s just not playing in Washington state," said Cathy Allen, a Democratic strategist in Seattle.

That is because the democratic party's lapdogs in the local Washington State media are not reporting it - it is not in any local news link that I could find.

Anyone have a decent link (that is not illegal referrer)?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 13:46 Comments || Top||

#6  Let me try again.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 14:59 Comments || Top||

#7  Thanks SH. I guess some Seattle area news are reporting it after all.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 15:36 Comments || Top||

#8  I recall Senator Murray as the one who told some school kids that maybe UBL was loved in the Middle East because he built so many roads, and schools and day care centers.
Posted by: eLarson || 09/15/2003 15:46 Comments || Top||

#9  eLarson: Yep; that's the same traitor bitch
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 16:20 Comments || Top||

#10  $1000 a plate and raised only $10,000? I am not that smart, but doesn' that mean only 10 people attended? Not a very good showing.
Posted by: LBW || 09/15/2003 21:26 Comments || Top||

#11  I bet she gets a tough challenge in the primary. No party can afford to send a candiadate with a tin ear into a genernal election. I am assuming that her views on OBL are offensive in Washington state. That may be a bad assumption.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 21:47 Comments || Top||

#12  I have lived in Seattle for 30 years, and have watched it turn from a laissez-faire place to a nuthouse. In Eastern Washington they mostly have their heads screwed on, but 60% of the State's population is between Everett and Olympia. That 60% is predominately wacko liberal, and gets more so every year. No tax is too high, no program too looney, no position too liberal, for this lot. We spend tens of billions to put trains and monorails where 80%-subsidized busses now run. Hey, we're voting tomorrow on an "espresso tax" so the bureaucrats can hire more buddies "for the kids," dontcha know. That's just the least of it. My property taxes rose 2000% in 20 years, which is typical. Really.

Hey, this is really turning into a rant! Let me unbunch my knickers and conclude by saying that Patty bin Murray hews to the party line on "the right to choose" and the perpetual expansion of wealth transfer from those who succeed to those who don't, so most of that 60% don't give a damn if she's a lunatic on OBL, disrespectful of 9-11 or anything else. She's the "D" and she'll be reelected if she runs. She will continue to be an embarrassment to the state and to say dumb things (in real life, she is an idiot) and the majority of her constituents just don't care, because she's politically correct. Sure wish Jennifer Dunn would have challenged her.
Posted by: Polonius || 09/16/2003 0:21 Comments || Top||


School reviewing teacher’s decision to show kids Sept. 11 footage
This is a load of BS
AURORA - An 8th grade teacher in the Cherry Creek School District was placed on administrative leave after showing his class a CNN video of the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center. Jason Ritter, who teaches social studies, showed the video as part of a lesson he presented on the anniversary of the terrorist attack. However he didn’t get permission from parents or administrators first. The next day he was put on paid administrative leave. “I was just told I was being put on administrative leave, until they could sort out both sides of the story,” Ritter said. “Then they’d let me know when I would be ready to go back to the classroom." He was told to submit a statement detailing why he showed the video in class. The school district was planning to meet about the case Monday morning.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 09/15/2003 12:50:15 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  OMG! A social studies teacher showing a video about current events! We cannot allow that to happen! I mean next we will be showing things which really happened like bus bombing.... we can't have that!

BS is right.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 13:20 Comments || Top||

#2  When in the hell does a teacher need to get permission from parents or administrators to do the job he was hired to do in the first place?! What a load of crap!
Posted by: Dar || 09/15/2003 13:27 Comments || Top||

#3  Permission? Admin Leave? Submit a Statement?

This must've been an up-scale district where people are more, um, sensitive.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 14:11 Comments || Top||

#4  .com - you hit it right on. Cherry Creek is like an affluent Boulder.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 09/15/2003 14:13 Comments || Top||

#5  Oh man, YS - this is just so sad and pathetic. Someday, rather sooner than the deniers can handle I'll bet, there are going to be some remarkably stupid decisions and asshat foolishness come back to haunt the haughty ill-informed elites. I hope it's publicly and utterly embarassing, since that's the worst thing you can do to people like these. Phools.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 14:19 Comments || Top||

#6  There is nothing in post to indicate context of rest of lesson.What reason(s) did he give for attacks?I would like to know what he was trying to teach before I rushed to teacher's defence.Having said that,I will say it is ridiculous to suspend a teacher solely for showing class a video repeatedly aired over CNN and other broadcasters.
Posted by: Stephen || 09/15/2003 14:32 Comments || Top||

#7  I made my 10th grader watch a World Trade Center show last week instead of a "reality" show. Am I in trouble?
Posted by: Tom || 09/15/2003 15:00 Comments || Top||

#8  Stephen - If the story is correctly stating it: CNN's coverage, then I think we're on the right track. Pretty hard to take away anything from the incredible horror of that morning - even if it was CNN. It took them at least a week to start apologizing for us being attacked...

Catch this thread on LGF? Tilley's story:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=8099#c0195

Not polished - just how it happened. Awesome read. Recommending this would probably get Ritter fired outright.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 15:08 Comments || Top||

#9  Apparently he's back to work this morning, after the STUDENTS and their PARENTS protested his suspension! Guess the administration kinda, sorta, over-reacted to a nothing story, trying to make something happen that didn't. Hope a lot of the school board members got nasty calls.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 15:44 Comments || Top||

#10  I guess concentration camp pictures would be definitely out of the question. Nothing like editing evil out of the syllabus; gives a fairer shake to the perpetrators.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 16:41 Comments || Top||

#11  Something tells me that the TEACHERS there were taught under NEA-run OBE.
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 16:51 Comments || Top||

#12  Update.
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 17:10 Comments || Top||

#13  I guess they then rule out any history before the 1970's. Would not want to tramatize little jimmy with pictures of 'WHITE ONLY' drinking fountains, restrooms, and schools as well as concentration camps or 'ovens'.... And god forbid they show a slave (of any color).

Would like to note that the SCHOOL DISTRICT did this and not the parents or students. Asshats!
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 17:20 Comments || Top||

#14  That was a good duck and cover by the school district to avoid coverage on the O'Reilly factor.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 20:18 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Terrorists Use Little Boys as Guinea Pigs
Two little Arab boys, scared and barefoot, crossed the fence from Gaza into pre-1967 Israel last night - and said that an Arab man from Gaza had made them do it. "An adult told us to cross the fence, and if not, he would hurt us," the boys said yesterday after they were found in the Kisufim area. The incident began when the army received warning of an infiltration. They searched the area, and in a grove of trees found the two scared boys. Army officials said that terrorist elements sent them as "guinea pigs" to see how the IDF would react.
Bastards, sent the kiddy fodder ahead to see if the way was clear. They’d do the same thing if Israel had minefields on the border.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 11:57:47 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  But.. But... But.... these are 'freedom fighters'? They could never do such a thing!

Damn... this sarcasm dial is turned way to high... sorry...
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 12:01 Comments || Top||

#2  Agence France Presse (hat tip to LGF) wrote the article without properly explaining why the boys mysteriously were on the Israeli side, leaving out the Paleo evil in using their children as guinea pigs...bastards
Posted by: Frank G || 09/15/2003 12:03 Comments || Top||

#3  "Can you point out the bad man, boys?..."
Posted by: mojo || 09/15/2003 13:23 Comments || Top||

#4  "Yes, sir. it was the man over there with the black mask covering his face, and the headband proclaiming 'Death to Israel'".

"Wow. There are so many like that. Set your phasers to kill, men. Widest possible dispersement."
Posted by: Ken B. || 09/15/2003 13:46 Comments || Top||


Senior PA Officer Apprehended Driving a Stolen Vehicle
Police apprehended a senior PA police official driving a Mazda Lantis that was stolen from inside Green Line Israel in 2001. He was questioned in an IDF district coordinating office and admitted to stealing the vehicle which he stated was abandoned.
"It was just siting there with the keys in it, honest!"
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 11:51:25 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  (snicker) This guy was prolly hand-picked from his staff of sycophants by Arafish hisownself to be s "senior PA police official." Tha is how one gets such a plum job, of course...

"50K Goombahs per year and all the cars you can hijack in Israel find 'abandoned' Jamil, whaddya say? We'll toss in the odd 'last night before Paradise' jihadi too, male or female, your preference."
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 15:18 Comments || Top||

#2  Would have thought that a vehicle stolen in 2001 would have been nabbed at a checkpoint before now.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 20:28 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Anti-terror laws increasingly used against common criminals
Tip to Drudge on this one
Boo Friggin Hoo to the criminals
In the two years since law enforcement agencies gained fresh powers to help them track down and punish terrorists, police and prosecutors have increasingly turned the force of the new laws not on al-Qaida cells but on people charged with common crimes.
Let’s not mention the cells that were caught in Buffalo, Spokane, Detroit, etc. They don’t count
The Justice Department said it has used authority given to it by the USA Patriot Act to crack down on currency smugglers and seize money hidden overseas by alleged bookies, con artists and drug dealers.
Hmmm? Using a law to put CRIMINALS away! How novel!
Federal prosecutors used the act in June to file a charge of "terrorism using a weapon of mass destruction" against a California man after a pipe bomb exploded in his lap, wounding him as he sat in his car.
No, no they should let him go so he an cook some more crack!
Can't see a bomb as a "weapon of mass destruction," though. Weapon, yes. Why go overboard?
A North Carolina county prosecutor charged a man accused of running a methamphetamine lab with breaking a new state law barring the manufacture of chemical weapons. If convicted, Martin Dwayne Miller could get 12 years to life in prison for a crime that usually brings about six months.
He won’t be missed, trust me.
Prosecutor Jerry Wilson says he isn’t abusing the law, which defines chemical weapons of mass destruction as "any substance that is designed or has the capability to cause death or serious injury" and contains toxic chemicals.
My teeth are sore from gritting them...
Civil liberties and legal defense groups are bothered by the string of cases, and say the government soon will be routinely using harsh anti-terrorism laws against run-of-the-mill lawbreakers. "Within six months of passing the Patriot Act, the Justice Department was conducting seminars on how to stretch the new wiretapping provisions to extend them beyond terror cases," said Dan Dodson, a spokesman for the National Association of Criminal Defense Attorneys. "They say they want the Patriot Act to fight terrorism, then, within six months, they are teaching their people how to use it on ordinary citizens."
This is just too funny. Everyone go their ACLU card?
Presumably that's ordinary citizens who're doing the same things terrorists do. But he's right, in that we have other laws that cover them. This is in the same category as the abuses of the RICO act...
Prosecutors aren’t apologizing.
So there!
Attorney General John Ashcroft completed a 16-city tour this week defending the Patriot Act as key to preventing a second catastrophic terrorist attack. Federal prosecutors have brought more than 250 criminal charges under the law, with more than 130 convictions or guilty pleas. The law, passed two months after the Sept. 11 attacks, erased many restrictions that had barred the government from spying on its citizens, granting agents new powers to use wiretaps, conduct electronic and computer eavesdropping and access private financial data. Stefan Cassella, deputy chief for legal policy for the Justice Department’s asset forfeiture and money laundering section, said that while the Patriot Act’s primary focus was on terrorism, lawmakers were aware it contained provisions that had been on prosecutors’ wish lists for years and would be used in a wide variety of cases.
Sounds like it's being used to prop up lazy prosecutors — or that opponents are cherry picking abuses to bolster their own position...
In one case prosecuted this year, investigators used a provision of the Patriot Act to recover $4.5 million from a group of telemarketers accused of tricking elderly U.S. citizens into thinking they had won the Canadian lottery. Prosecutors said the defendants told victims they would receive their prize as soon as they paid thousands of dollars in income tax on their winnings.
Another good application of a law to PROTECT citizens!
But bunco laws have been on the books for at least 100 years...
Before the anti-terrorism act, U.S. officials would have had to use international treaties and appeal for help from foreign governments to retrieve the cash, deposited in banks in Jordan and Israel. Now, they simply seized it from assets held by those banks in the United States.
Sounds easier to me!
"These are appropriate uses of the statute," Cassella said. "If we can use the statute to get money back for victims, we are going to do it."
It sounds like having it, they didn't bother looking for any other methods...
The complaint that anti-terrorism legislation is being used to go after people who aren’t terrorists is just the latest in a string of criticisms. More than 150 local governments have passed resolutions opposing the law as an overly broad threat to constitutional rights.
Ask the oldsters that got their money back if they like the law.
Critics also say the government has gone too far in charging three U.S. citizens as enemy combatants, a power presidents wield during wartime that is not part of the Patriot Act. The government can detain such individuals indefinitely without allowing them access to a lawyer.
Terrorists can kill you, and you'll be dead for an indefinite period without access to a lawyer. Tough bananas...
And Muslim and civil liberties groups have criticized the government’s decision to force thousands of mostly Middle Eastern men to risk deportation by registering with immigration authorities.
Excuse me Achmed, you are SUPPOSED to register to remain in the country. That was true BEFORE 9/11, they just are making a big deal about it now.
"The record is clear," said Ralph Neas, president of the liberal People for the American Way Foundation. "Ashcroft and the Justice Department have gone too far."
I have to hate this org. just based on the title.
Neas was saying that before Ashcroft was appointed...
Some of the restrictions on government surveillance that were erased by the Patriot Act had been enacted after past abuses — including efforts by the FBI to spy on civil rights leaders and anti-war demonstrators during the Cold War. Tim Lynch, director of the Project on Criminal Justice at the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, said it isn’t far fetched to believe that the government might overstep its bounds again.
I'm sure they will. It's one of those pendulum things. At this moment, though, I think that the tough approach is more appropriate than the wienie approach. It's my opinion, at the risk of repeating myself ad nauseum, that we don't have the wartime mentality. We're in a war we can't afford to lose. This isn't Vietnam, where the poor Viets took it in the shortz when we left. This is an aggresive crusade launched against us by people who hate us, hate our way of life, hate everything we stand for. Non-jihadi Americans in the Islamist world aren't treated with consideration. Just ask Daniel Pearl or Martin Burnham.
"I don’t think that those are frivolous fears," Lynch said. "We’ve already heard stories of local police chiefs creating files on people who have protested the (Iraq) war ... The government is constantly trying to expand its jurisdictions, and it needs to be watched very, very closely."
"We’ve already heard stories" Without getting into names and charges? I got a ’story’ for you: I haven't read any stories about attacks in the U.S.? I like my story!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/15/2003 11:36:02 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  How many bookies, con artists, etc. hide their money overseas? .0005%?
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/15/2003 12:00 Comments || Top||

#2  Cyber Sarge,

it's "power to the people" not "power to the gov"

I find your support for an Act which goes against our core values as a people, well disturbing.

The article was centered primarily on the concept of the Patriot Act being used in a manor in which we were told it would NOT be used.

The Patriot Act is supposed to be a temporary measure to combat terrorism and safeguard the american people, but now it is also being used for other purposes. This is NOT a good thing!

Why? Because law enforcement officials want to get the job done and get criminals off the street (yeah I know, duh), this act makes it easier on them to do so, which makes them happy. They are going to get used to having it around, I predict they will fight to make the Patriot Act permanent, which would of course permanently shrink the civil liberty of the american people.



I don’t know about anyone else here, but I'm not big on being lied to, I'm also not so big on having my civil liberties threatened
Posted by: Dcreeper || 09/15/2003 12:47 Comments || Top||

#3  Dcreeper, We are talking about ISOLATED cases where a prosecutor has applied this law (rightly or wrongly) to a particular case. Contrary to the Arab-American whiners group and then ACLU, there are NO documented abuses under the Patriot Act. As for the Meth cooker and the swindlers they get what they deserved. I hate it when the guilty cry foul when they are caught. WHAAAA WHAAAA!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/15/2003 13:01 Comments || Top||

#4  eh, we are talking about 2 example cases, no where in the article did it state that they are the only occurrence of it's usage.

I think ye should in account that, generally, in most cases, more happens than is reported.

Or do you really expect me to believe the additional surveillance options are not being used on non-terror suspects?


documented ?
(this bit from EFF)
FBI and CIA can now go from phone to phone, computer to computer without demonstrating that each is even being used by a suspect or target of an order......
The government need not make any showing to a court that the particular information or communication to be acquired is relevant to a criminal investigation.
(/EFF)
what documentation? they can just simply do it. no paper work

the Patriot Act loosely defines far too many things.

As for the Meth maker and the poor bastard with a pipe bomb.. Terrorism? my ass. If they committed a crime fine, charge them accordingly, but terrorism ? how far will this sort of thing go if it is not opposed or vilified?

what is your logic behind the belief that is ONLY these two isolated events?

Do you have no love of the American free spirit? Does the loss of your liberties bother you at all ?
Posted by: Dcreeper || 09/15/2003 13:32 Comments || Top||

#5  Dcreeper, good points. And no I do not have proof that these are the only cases. I also do not have proof of any other cases and I DO NOT/WILL not feel sorry for someone who makes crack for a living. Also I APPLAUD the resourcefulness of the prosecuter that used the ACT to get the money of the swindlers. Sorry but I have some faith in my law enforcement. I have not observed a 'loss' of my civil liberties, have you? With the exception of having to wait longer to board a plane, my life continues as normal. Is that because I am not cooking meth or running a con on old people? You can play chiken little if you want, but the sky is not falling on me.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/15/2003 14:00 Comments || Top||

#6  Cyber Sarge,

You make a good point. I hear all these people whining about the Constitution being trampled and loosing all of their civil rights, yet I have yet to hear one of these people mention a specific case of having a civil liberty violated.

So Dcreeper, what right have you lost today? I for one have continued to live my life as normal. I critize the government where appropriate. I send lewd emails to friends. Drink my beer, watch football, go to work on Monday. I can even go to church if I want (which I don't). I don't have a gun, but I could get one if I so desired. What rights have I lost?
Posted by: Swiggles || 09/15/2003 14:25 Comments || Top||

#7  Dcreeper, if it were a story about innocents being prosecuted for their politics, then I could see your point. But it's about bookies, con artists, drug dealers, and defrauders of the elderly! Get me a list of political prisoners if you want my attention, and preferably not the list that includes convicted cop-killers.
Posted by: Tom || 09/15/2003 14:56 Comments || Top||

#8  Cyber Sarge, Swiggles, Tom:

Those of you who have seen my posts know that I am amongst the most conservative, Democrat hating, gun loving, LEO supporting Rantburghers around - but I don't like the patriot act. Why? Precedent, my friends, precedent. Can you imagine the Patriot Act in the hands of Janet Reno? Howabout President Hillary Clinton? I really don't want this golf club left in their bag; no thank you.
Posted by: Secret Master || 09/15/2003 15:13 Comments || Top||

#9  Oddly, few of the actual examples in the article have anything to do with the Patriot Act. The meth dealer was charged under a state law, for example. Lots of prosecutions are being laid at the foot of the Act that have nothing to do with it.

NRO answered some questions here
Patriot Act site here
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 09/15/2003 15:21 Comments || Top||

#10  Secret Master, I see your point but even if that come to pass I will have to put my faith in the law. Also IF Billary does get into the White House she will be under a BIG microscope, just like President Bush. If there were any funny business vis-a-vis the ACT, the fat-ankle shrew Hillary would be the FIRST one to start clucking (rightfully so). So far we have ACUSATION of wrong and very little proof. I stand firm and like Tom, I want to see a list of 'political' prisoners.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/15/2003 15:30 Comments || Top||

#11  Sounds like when they used the RICO statutes against abortion protestors, doesn't it? Gotta agree with S-master. Jefferson would be crying, 'foul'!

If you need a law, make a law. Then only use it for the reasons for which it was written.
Posted by: Scott || 09/15/2003 16:29 Comments || Top||

#12  All finer points aside, there is one interesting point being brought out here. And that is that drugs like heroin, crack, etc. really are weapons of mass destruction. Maybe it's time we point out to our bleeding hearted democratic friends that if they really care about saving lives and preventing suffering, perhaps their time would be better spent educating the populace about the dangers of glorifying drug use...rather than, oh, say, the dangers of having a gun in the house. And perhaps they can spare of few of the tears that they use to sobb themselves to sleep at night over regretful civilian casualties of wars being fought to rid the world of mass murdering despots ..to shed a few tears of compassion to the millions "civilian casualties" who are the result of their MTV-esqe glorification of drugs.

But...since all is political in their selective pity, I'm sure we can expect them just to continue to look away from the fact that drugs kill far, far, more people annually than do bombs.
Posted by: Becky || 09/15/2003 18:01 Comments || Top||

#13  Sorry Becky, but that argument doesn't fly. FAR MORE people are addicted in this country to a LEGAL intoxicant (alcohol) than are to the illegal variety. Further, far more of the driving deaths and "episodes of violence" are attributable to the consumption of alcohol than are to illegal drugs.

I'm all for law and order, but for the law to be taken seriously, it has to have a logical foundation. One cannot simultaneously POUND on the societal costs of "illegal drugs" while simultaneously smoking a Marlboro and sipping a cold Coors--the logical inconsistancy in such a position won't allow it to be taken seriously.
Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/15/2003 18:29 Comments || Top||

#14  Finer points. Like the rules of engagement at Waco? Ruby Ridge?

Drugs as WMD? Are you including alcohol? The biggest killer of all the drugs.

Becky, I see your intentions and they are noble. But as was pointed out, unscrupulous leaders will twist the fruits of your good intentions against whatever group is not THEM. And eventually that will include YOUR group. Our constitution was framed primarily to protect us from our government. Limiting the Hillaries (and the Ashcrofts) is precicely the reason why.

You want to execute drug dealers? Fine. Pass a law. Enforce THAT law. But do not let the government assume powers that it was not specifically given. Sooner or later, we're gonna get a Hillary.
Posted by: Scott || 09/15/2003 18:35 Comments || Top||

#15  Well, good points both...but I really didn't want to go there. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of the politically selective piety...oops..I mean pity.

There are lots of things we can cry over.... but if one wants to feel superior to me by proclaiming to care more than me about human suffering caused by war or gun possession...then it is only fair that I be allowed to point out my own far greater superiority (heh, heh) for being more concerned with the far greater level of human suffering, created by drug abuse (legal or no), auto accidents, AIDS or unattended children drowing in buckets.

I know it's a double edged sword...but I think it's safe to say that heroin, meth, crack and ...yes..alcohol are WMDs. Not trying to execute anyone or make public policy...just making an observation that it's not inaccurate to acknowledge drugs as a WMD. If you take the political consequences out of the picture (if only it were possible) then I'm just making a statement of fact.
Posted by: Becky || 09/16/2003 2:21 Comments || Top||


Middle East
U.S. stopped Israeli raid to seize Arafat
The United States has prevented Israel’s military from capturing the headquarters of Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat.
thank you Colin Powell....ass
U.S. government sources said the Bush administration sent a harsh message to Israel to suspend plans to capture Arafat’s headquarters in Ramallah over the weekend. The sources said the had military planned to raid the so-called Muqata’a on late Friday and capture Arafat.
that would’ve been interesting with all those human shields..
Both Secretary of State Colin Powell and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice telephoned Israeli and PA leaders and warned Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to suspend the military plans, Middle East Newsline reported.

The U.S. sources said the Bush administration was alarmed by the Israeli entry into Ramallah on Thursday. An Israeli military force captured a PA ministry about 300 meters from Arafat’s headquarters and established a command post for the capture of the Muqata’a.

At that point, the sources said, the administration was informed by the CIA that Israel planned to imminently capture Arafat’s headquarters and seize the PA chairman. They said Israel planned to exile Arafat to a distant Arab country.Like ...Hell?
"The United States does not support either the elimination or the exile of Mr. Arafat," Powell said. "It is not our position and the Israeli government knows this. There would be rage in the Arab world and the Muslim world. And I don’t see this moving forward the roadmap."
I’ve gotten to the point that Arab Stret™ rage doesn’t scareme, it just pisses me off even more...
Powell and Rice sent Israel a message, the sources said, that the United States regards any move to exile Arafat as harmful to Washington’s interests in the Middle East, including the roadmap for a Palestinian state. At the same time, U.S. ambassador to Israel Daniel Kurtzer met Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz and warned of an international backlash to Arafat’s exile.

The sources said the U.S. pressure worked and by Saturday Mofaz ordered the withdrawal of the Israeli military force from Ramallah. At the same time, Powell telephoned PA International Cooperation Minister Nabil Shaath and pledged that Washington will continue to ensure that Arafat is not harmed
Posted by: Frank G || 09/15/2003 11:28:36 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  If this was only Powell, I'd agree that this was a bad mistake. But if Condi weighed in, then I'd like to hear what her take is on it: Her track record is so much better than Powell's on things like this.

My gut feel is that Condi wanted more time to think things through, and that the pace of events took her by surprise.
Posted by: Ptah || 09/15/2003 11:37 Comments || Top||

#2  Time to flood the White House with email. Forget your Congressman & Senator - go for Dubya direct here:
president@whitehouse.gov

BUT KEEP IT CLEAN AND SIMPLE AND NON-THREATENING!

Get the point across with numbers, folks. Pass the email addy to everyone you know - don't forget to pass along the warning, too.

Maybe, just maybe, we can get the big guy to realize that there is strong support for strong measures. And that the greatest "problem" in the M.E. is the continued presence of the murderer Arafat.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 11:42 Comments || Top||

#3  The Israelis missed their chance that first night when mostly men brandishing AK's went to the Muqata to defend Yasser.

I would have loved to see a couple of volleys of tear gas as Yasser addressed them.

Now its Palestinian folk dancing and their Boy Scouts performing there.

Now it's turning into a PR disaster.
Posted by: Daniel King || 09/15/2003 12:01 Comments || Top||

#4  Since when does Israel listen to the US ? Sounds like a last warning to Arafat with the US getting to look like the good guys. One more bomb, and Arafat is a goner.
Posted by: eyeyeye || 09/15/2003 12:04 Comments || Top||

#5  ""The United States does not support either the elimination or the exile of Mr. Arafat," Powell said. "It is not our position and the Israeli government knows this. There would be rage in the Arab world and the Muslim world..... "

You have got to be kidding me.

This unbelievable double standard crap has got to stop, NOW! We, the United States, have publically declared that we want to kill or capture Oama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. We HAVE proved that we are entirely in earnest by targeting, pursuing and killing Saddam Hussein's two misanthropic, cretinous sons. We then posted pictures of their dead bodies for the whole world to see. We then "desecrated" their corpses by "fixing them up" cosmetically for further pictures. No matter what we think of them, they were Muslims, and even so-called "moderate" muslims would be appalled at that act. Imagine what the already furious muslims would think. Was Powell concerned then about the rage of the Arab world? Don't get me wrong, I was and completely am still 100% behind every action we have taken in this war on terror since it started, and I believe that we had ample reason to do everything we did in Iraq. But we do not have 1/10th of the physical, indisputable evidence that Israel has to justify the elimination of the PLO and it's leader. If testimonies of frightened scientists, long-range drones, and abandoned WMD factory trucks were "smoking guns" for us, then Israel can produce an entire "smoking armory" of justifications for it's actions.

And for Heaven's sake... What Road Map?!!! The only road paved by any of these peace process efforts of the past 10 years is utterly impassable... because it is littered with dead bodies, rocketed cars, and shredded buses - from both sides of the conflict. The road of peace that we keep trying to pave and map literally looks like the final scene of "The Road Warrior". Screw the ridiculous roadmap, screw the PLO, and screw these constant, inane attempts to placate and appease this culture that has neither the desire nor capacity to reciprocate in kind.
Posted by: Ken B. || 09/15/2003 12:17 Comments || Top||

#6  Ken B - Excellent - easily Rant of the Day quality!!! Kudos!
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 13:48 Comments || Top||

#7  Remember the ratio: 47 to 1 in US/Israeli population. When they lose 10 people to a terrorist's bomb belt, it is the equivalent of the US losing 470 people. Would we be willing to write off 470 people? I think not. We may be playing our cards close to the deck, but its time to call and show. If we do not, then we are just enabling Arafat's behavior. Let the Israelis defend themselves. This is an outrage.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/15/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||

#8 

Granted, Arafat's a vile thug, but he's their vile thug and
symbol of their struggle--and they're bound to rally round him, even
without gunmen requesting their attendence at the
rallies. Anybody can predict that
this sort of threat will only make Arafat more popular. {The only thing
that was good at making him unpopular was actual governing. I seem to
recall that a lot of people were getting very sick of the PA a few years
back--mad enough to risk complaining. Think maybe that's one of the
reasons Arafat launched the second Intifada: to distract the people?}

So why make the threats? Is this desperation, or klutziness? Or are they
planning to make a big deal out of stomping him, and hang in there for
the resulting explosions? I'd worry about that--if some bigshot
Palestinian were to move fast enough he could take up the mantle of Arafat
and consolidate his power with a vengence war; and things could look very
ugly for a long time.

Or is somebody being clever and this is meant as a distraction?
What happens to the Hamas bigwigs during this turmoil? If they have to
pop up and yell "We're important too!" it makes them
easier to find: that's good. If they have to go kiss Arafat's ring, then
maybe it helps consolidate control of the terror groups, which would also
be a good thing (makes decapitation or spying easier). (A pity
negotiation isn't possible.)

Posted by: James || 09/15/2003 18:01 Comments || Top||

#9  This is total crap. If we're serious about terrorism, let's be serious about it. If not, then lets just blow ourselves up and save them the trouble. I'm really disappointed with Powell and Rice, as well as the President for not standing up on this one.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/15/2003 18:22 Comments || Top||

#10  Once Bush wins re-election (which, if he really screws Israel, may be questionable), he needs to dump Powell. The "Good cop-Bad cop" played out long ago. We need someone at State willing to clean out the stables and start running that organization as part of the United States government.

As for Arafart, the best thing to do is to let him stew until there's another bomb blast in Israel. Shouldn't take too long - a week or two at most. Then go in with guns blazing, and damn whoever gets in the way for stopping your bullets. Kill him, anybody with him, and totally raze the entire Paleo "capital" and all its "ministries". Those are for real governments, not the piece of kiss-ass crap Arafart runs.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 20:37 Comments || Top||


Iran
Iran says committed to nuclear pact. Yeah right.
EFL.
Iran moved Monday to cool fears it might follow North Korea and quit an international treaty intended to halt the spread of nuclear arms.
Nuclear legs, on the other hand

Tehran, accused by Washington of secretly developing the capacity to produce nuclear weapons, also said it would go ahead with talks with the International Atomic Energy Authority (IAEA) on a protocol permitting snap, short notice inspections. Iran’s ambassador to the IAEA, Ali Akbar Salehi, stormed out of an IAEA board session Friday after a tough, U.S.-backed resolution giving Tehran until October 31 to give full details of its nuclear plans. Over the weekend, Germany’s Der Spiegel magazine published an interview with Salehi in which he said Tehran could leave the IAEA and the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). But the head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization told delegates from the IAEA’s 136 member countries that Tehran had no intentions of withdrawing from the 1968 pact. "Iran is fully committed to its NPT responsibilities, not only because of its contractual obligations, but also because of its religious and ethical considerations," said Gholamreza Aghazadeh, who is also a vice president.
Then his lips fell off and his nose grew.
Washington, which labeled Iran a member of an axis of evil with North Korea and pre-war Iraq), lobbied hard to get the tough IAEA resolution passed.
Posted by: Katz || 09/15/2003 10:58:27 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Keep 'em on the defensive. Blocking inspections by the IAEA and saying that they have nothing but peaceful uses of atomic energy makes as much sense as Sammy's show to the UN for WMD. They should read the Sammy Scriptbook and learn something vicariously.....but they won't. They want an Islamic Bomb™.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/15/2003 13:48 Comments || Top||


Caucasus
Blast Kills 3 in Russia Near Chechnya
A truck filled with explosives blew up Monday outside a government security building in a southern Russian region bordering Chechnya, killing at least three people and wounding at least 22, an official said.
They’re back!
The explosion shattered all the windows in the Ingushetia regional headquarters of the Federal Security Service, or FSB, ripping part of the roof open and leaving the three-story building severely damaged but still standing. Overturned cars lay crumpled in a pile near the charred FSB building in Ingushetia’s capital, Magas. An Associated Press reporter saw at least one dead body inside one of the cars. The force of the blast was so great, said Muslim Dudarov, a man who works in a nearby building, that he was thrown out of his office and into the building’s lobby. He said that numerous people were hit by flying glass.
The ITAR-Tass news agency reported that there were as many as 100 people in the building at the time of the blast. Accounts differed as to whether the truck had been driven by a suicide bomber or parked outside the building.
My vote is on the suicide boomer.
Abukar Kostoyev, a deputy security minister in Ingushetia, said three people were killed and 17 hospitalized. An Emergency Situations official at the scene, who declined to give his name, said that three victims died after being transported to the hospital and a fourth body was found at the site. ITAR-Tass reported that four people were killed and about 40 injured.
Viktor Shkareda, a deputy chief of the Emergency Situations Ministry’s southern Russia branch, put the death toll at two. He said that 22 were injured, four in critical condition. It was not immediately possible to reconcile the conflicting death tolls.
It’ll take a while to sort through the wreckage, the body count will be on the higher side.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 10:19:24 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Iran
Third Shooting Targets British Mission in Iran
A motorcycle passenger fired shots at the main gate of the residential compound of the British embassy in Iran, the third time the mission has been targeted this month, a British diplomat said Monday. As with the previous incidents, nobody was hurt in the latest shooting which took place Sunday evening, British diplomat Andrew Greenstock told Reuters.
They’re not meant to hurt anyone, they’re meant to express displeasure with Britain.
Tensions have been rising between Tehran and London over Britain’s arrest at Argentina’s request of a former Iranian diplomat in connection with the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires that killed 85 people.
Britain protested "strongly" to Iran last week after the second of two drive-by shootings around the British embassy in central Tehran in under a week.
As they say, once is a accident, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.
Witnesses at the sprawling, leafy Gholhak compound where British embassy staff and their families live in northern Tehran, said they heard two shots Sunday night. "There were witnesses. It seems to be two men on a bike again," Greenstock said.
Those bikers get around.
He said the shots were fired around 6:10 p.m. (1340 GMT). Iran’s government was quick to condemn the shooting. "These kind of moves are completely unacceptable," Iran’s Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi told Reuters. He said the government would ensure those responsible were brought to justice.
"We’ll get to it right after we clear up this canadian thing."
British diplomats said there have been two drive-by shootings at the embassy in central Tehran but this was the first time the residential compound had been targeted. In the first incident on September 3 gunshots, also apparently fired from a passing motorcycle, pierced windows in the embassy building that stands near a busy street. On September 9, witnesses said three or four shots were fired at or near the embassy, coming from two men on a motorcycle.
Hum, don’t those pro-fundi mullah militia types ride bikes alot? Seems like they might want to look at them.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 9:37:26 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I bet it would be easier to ban bicycles in Teheran than ban AK-47's.
Posted by: SOG475 || 09/15/2003 9:45 Comments || Top||

#2  I thought I read that the British Authorities released the diplomat on bail.

Any bets on whether he skips?
Posted by: Daniel King || 09/15/2003 11:53 Comments || Top||

#3  DK, yes that's correct. Seems as though the extradition's by no means guaranteed either:

"An Iranian ex-envoy has been freed on bail in London, pending extradition proceedings over a bombing which killed 85 in Argentina. Hade Soleimanpour was freed on £730,000 bail, and must report daily to police. A High Court judge said there was no clear evidence Mr Soleimanpour was involved in the 1994 bombing of a Jewish centre in Buenos Aires. Mr Justice Royce said he had read reports from the investigating judge in Argentina - totalling more than 400 pages - but said it did not point to any "clear evidence demonstrating his involvement". He added that Mr Soleimanpour had stayed in the UK despite plenty of chances to flee. The envoy had known about a possible extradition request from Argentina since March and "clearly could have departed these shores by now had he so wished," he said.

His counsel, Mr Alun Jones QC, said the Argentine government's accusations were based on "innuendo, hearsay and suspicion". Argentina seemed to be suggesting that Iran was exporting state-sponsored terrorism through its embassy and that the ambassador therefore must have been involved, he said.

Mr Justice Royce said it was "too early" to reach a final view on the strength of Argentina's case against the diplomat - and that would be decided by a magistrate as the extradition proceedings began [19 September]."
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/15/2003 12:15 Comments || Top||

#4  It would be fun to stop the bikers with some piano wire.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||


Latin America
Tourists kidnapped in Colombia
Police in Colombia say eight foreign tourists have been kidnapped by suspected members of the left-wing guerrilla group, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC. The group is believed to include four Israelis, two Britons, a German and a Spaniard.
You’d have thought the Israelis would have been smarter.
The tourists were kidnapped as they hiked in the area, near the Caribbean coast, where a so-called Lost City (Ciudad Perdida) sits in the jungle built by an indigenous civilisation 500 years before Christ. The Israeli ambassador said that the four Israelis had travelled to the area because they had a keen interest in pre-Colombian Indian ruins.
"Ari, where shall we vacation this year?"
"Oh, I don’t know, Algeria?"
"Algeria is so last year, Ari. I know, let’s go hiking through the Colombian ruins!"
The area of Sierra Nevada where the tourists were snatched is a disputed territory, fought over by Marxist guerrillas, right-wing paramilitaries and drugs traffickers, none of whom welcome foreign visitors, says the BBC’s Jeremy McDermott in Bogota.
Perfect place for a vacation.
Most of Colombia’s 3,000-odd kidnappings every year - that is one every four hours - are carried out by FARC, who use the ransom to fund their 39-year war on the state. They often make their hostages walk for days between malarial jungle prisons. Guerrillas have been known to murder their hostages rather than allow them to be rescued and have held kidnap victims for up to five years whilst waiting for a ransom, our correspondent says.
As Latin America’s biggest guerrilla group with 17,000 fighters, FARC is currently holding dozens of political prisoners, including a former presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt, and three US military contractors it wants to exchange with rebels held in Colombian jails.
The ultimate "tourist trap".
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 9:02:55 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  You would think the Columbians would know better than to kidnap Israelis. I'd cut those four loose quuick.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/15/2003 11:30 Comments || Top||

#2  Wonder if the Israelis were really tourists. There is quite a bit of islamic terrorist organizing in that area. Sounds like an unliely place to be seeking that lost tribes.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 20:26 Comments || Top||


Korea
China sends troops to NorK border
EFL, RTWT
Guard duties along China’s increasingly tense border with North Korea have been transferred from the police to the People’s Liberation Army, China’s Foreign Ministry said Monday. The announcement, made in a brief statement faxed to reporters, follows media reports of heavy deployment of Chinese combat units to the border area in northeastern China’s Jilin province. The region has reportedly seen an upsurge in border crossings and crime by impoverished North Koreans and armed North Korean soldiers. The Foreign Ministry statement said it had no information about reports that 150,000 troops had been sent to the border. It said the decision to turn over Kimmiewatch guard duties to the PLA’s border guard unit had been planned years ago and was designed to express Beijing’s displeasure bring the area in line with other parts of China’s land border that are guarded by the military. The Sunday Morning Post newspaper in Hong Kong reported on Sunday that 150,000 troops had been sent to the border region since the middle of last month in a move to stem cross-border gathering crime by North Korean foragers soldiers.
Posted by: Dishman || 09/15/2003 4:40:02 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Diplo-speak is still a marvel of bullshit to me. No matter how transparent or petty or pointless, there seems to be an absolute wall between diplo-reasoning / statements and reality. "Nope, we've been planning this for years. No big deal. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along." Heh, heh.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 5:37 Comments || Top||

#2  Something's going down. This is good news.
Posted by: Ptah || 09/15/2003 9:07 Comments || Top||

#3  Appears that way,Ptah.150,000 does see like a hell of alot of"Border Gaurds".
Posted by: raptor || 09/15/2003 9:21 Comments || Top||

#4  Kimmie, put down the toys, step back and raise your hands.

150,000 is not much of a force to deal with 1.5 million soldiers using the latest in 1950's military hardware. Why anyone was intimidated by him or his father is beyond me. We should have whacked them both a long time ago.
Posted by: SOG475 || 09/15/2003 9:35 Comments || Top||

#5  SOG:

150,000 is not much of a force to deal with 1.5 million soldiers using the latest in 1950's military hardware.

I suspect most of those 1.5 million soldiers are trained to look south most of the time, and the thousands of artillery pieces threatening Seoul don't bother the Chinese one bit...
Posted by: snellenr || 09/15/2003 11:16 Comments || Top||

#6  Sog, you forget that the vast majority of NKor's soldiers are in the south part of the country, across the DMZ from SKor. Red China is one of the few countries Kimmie trusts, and I'd imagine the landscape between the northern border and the capital is relatively lightly defended: The only duty of the Army in that region is to enforce order on a gunless populace.
Posted by: Ptah || 09/15/2003 11:16 Comments || Top||

#7  This has to be freaking lil'Kimmie out. All his "safe havens" are nestled right up against the Chinese border, where it would be a cinch for a quick smash and grab operation if Kimmie starts anything. Kimmie is NOT ready for a 2-front war, his entire stratedy is predicated on having that nice big friendly doggie at his back.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/15/2003 12:39 Comments || Top||

#8  I wouldn't get to excited bout this. The chinese are probably getting swarmed with refugees and are trying to stem the tide. I seriously doubt they are planning to lauch any type of invasion plan or would even come close to helping us in one.
Posted by: Damn_Proud_American || 09/15/2003 13:59 Comments || Top||

#9  They are getting swarmed by refugees and bandidos, but this has very clear signals that go beyond Immigration reform.

Kimmie has been a naughty little satellite and has made them look bad to the big kids. PRC wanted to broker a deal, and he's screwed it up twice, now. They certainly don't want to give the mean old Merkins a reason to be sniffing around.

150k troops means stuff even to an NKOR whacko. PRC is spending big dollars they would rather do other things with, to send a message to bad puppy. When the Foreign Ministry, which will not normally concede whether it is day or night at any given moment, announces the move, it's a message.
Posted by: Mark IV || 09/15/2003 16:15 Comments || Top||

#10  The Russians just conducted excercises on their border. The Japanese are hassling the ferry riders. Almost like a multinational effort is underway. Read something over the weekend about how nothing would get done with too many countries at the table. Evidence is proving otherwise. This looks like the type of intervention that family members and coworkers use to confront drunks.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 16:47 Comments || Top||

#11  The northern area of NK is almost totally undefended. If 150k troops started from the border at breakfast, they would have lunch in Pyongyang. But what would be the fun in that? The PRC has no reason to stop Kimmey's sideshow with the nukes. It keeps Japan, SK , and the U.S. at bay. It's sort of Win, win, win for them on the strategic front. Unless we made some deal to let them 'liberate' the north, but what's in it for the PRC? 24 Million people to feed? Not a winning scenario. Maybe they are there to keep the Korean out in case of a SK attack?
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/15/2003 19:54 Comments || Top||

#12  The chinese are probably getting swarmed with refugees and are trying to stem the tide.
China hasn't had a great year, crop-wise, the worldwide recession that started in 1999/2000 is causing them some pain, and there's a host of problems on the horizon - Taiwan, a possibly nuclear-armed Japan, increasing Russian activity on the northern border, a resurgent Tibetan presence, and Muslim fruitcakes acting up in a few of China's western provinces. They don't need Kimmie causing more trouble. They also don't need to have to deal with a million refugees, and that is a very real possibility. They want Kimmie to clean up his playpen, and he's not cooperating. China could walk over Kim in a heartbeat, even with as few as 150,000 soldiers. Kim gets his ammunition from China. China has probably already frozen any such shipments. Without daily intervention from China, Kim has no gasoline, no coal for power plants, very little of anything for anything. More importantly, winter is only a few months away. Kim can either be warm and play nice with the big boys, or he can freeze his kiester off while trying to eat snow.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 20:10 Comments || Top||

#13  Hey, Kimmie? Who's side are they going to come in on this time if the shit hits the fan? Are you thinking about that? Maybe you should be.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/15/2003 23:26 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Passengers duct-tape troublesome passenger on Hawaii-to-LA flight
A pack, not a herd.
A Texas man who disrupted a United Airlines flight from Hawaii was subdued with the help of passengers and duct tape, authorities said Sunday. No one was reported injured, said Sgt. Carl Sansbury of the Los Angeles International Airport police. Brian Kane Eager, 36, of Austin, was held for 72 hours to undergo a psychological examination, FBI Special Agent Matt McLaughlin said. United Flight 54 left Honolulu for Los Angeles at about 8:50 p.m. Saturday. About 90 minutes after takeoff, the man got out of his seat and began talking and wandering the aisle, passenger Joseph Gugerty said. "He was pacing and reading the Bible," said Gugerty who was returning to Kentucky, where he is chief of communications in The Associated Press’ Louisville bureau. "They let him wander back and forth in the plane until he started to move forward," Gugerty said. "Then they surrounded him and pushed him to the floor."

About a half-dozen passengers were involved, he said. "He becomes agitated. A baby starts crying. He says he has to go help the baby and pushes his way past the flight attendant," McLaughlin said. "He was not trying to gain access to the flight deck." Passengers and a federal immigration and customs agent who was traveling for personal reasons helped restrain the man but he managed to slip out of handcuffs, McLaughlin said. The agent then used duct tape to restrain him, and the man was turned over to local police when the plane landed in Los Angeles at about 4:45 a.m., authorities said. He could face a federal charge of interfering with a flight crew, Sansbury said.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/15/2003 12:57:04 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Never again will a stew have to ask for help more than once... if that.
Posted by: Dishman || 09/15/2003 2:19 Comments || Top||

#2  "He was pacing and reading the Bible..."
One of those white-knuckle fliers... Not to mention an obnoxious jerk.

Dishman's right on.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 3:52 Comments || Top||

#3  There's a lesson here: Always carry duct tape.
Posted by: mojo || 09/15/2003 11:24 Comments || Top||

#4  Top WW II inventions: Nuclear weapons, WD-40, and Duct tape.
Posted by: Ptah || 09/15/2003 11:29 Comments || Top||

#5  Wait a miniute....

Isn't Duct Tape one of the things they dont allow on planes? Where did this come from?

Dishman is right on the money.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/15/2003 11:41 Comments || Top||

#6  It's not listed as specifically prohibited on this TSA list, but it depends on how widely you define "Tools" perhaps. I can't imagine it is prohibited, though.
Posted by: Dar || 09/15/2003 14:12 Comments || Top||

#7  Most likely the duct tape was part of flight crews equipment. Lots of lockers, bins, etc you don't want flapping around during flight.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 14:34 Comments || Top||

#8  When they pulled the tape off, was that a human-rights violation? My wrists are sort of harry.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||

#9  Zeesh...in a pinch I could stab with pens or hair clips or by by breaking my tiny little booze bottle; I can bind with my purse straps, bra straps or computer cords. Next thing we will all have to fly naked after undergoing body cavity searches.
Posted by: Becky || 09/15/2003 18:33 Comments || Top||

#10  I don't fly much any more, and I'm glad! If I did, however, I'd willingly give the stews and other flight crew a hand in anything they needed. I've been on enough military cattle-car flights to know the ropes. You've never experienced air travel until you've made the trip from McGuire AFB, in New Jersey, to Frankfurt, in Germany, with 300 other active duty military and dependents, half of which seem to be under 4. The crew on those flights needed all the help they could get, and you'd be surprised at the number of single GIs that end up changing diapers and holding a scared child while Mom was caring for another one. I don't know that I'd have bagged this fruitcake, but I'm glad someone did. I think eventually the word will get out that Americans have gotten over their "passive sheep" phase, and are back into that World War II "don't tread on me" attitude. Hope some OTHERS are watching...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 19:18 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Hamas Leader: EU Blacklist a Big Mistake
DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) - The European Union committed a "big mistake" by blacklisting Hamas as a terrorist organization, but the move won’t affect the group’s resistance operations, a senior leader of the Palestinian militant group said Sunday.
"Youse guys are gonna pay!"
Hamas leader in Syria Khaled Mashaal said as the group’s resources came from Arabs and Muslims, the EU ban would not affect Hamas’ struggle against Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territories. "Europe has made a big mistake by taking this decision," Mashaal told The Associated Press. It was "an aggression against the Palestinian people, rather than Hamas. It is a kind of compliance with Israel and submission to American Pressures."
What, no Dire Revenge™?
The European Union has added the entire Hamas organization to its terrorist list, but stopped short of a U.S.-like crackdown on related charities that allegedly funnel money to the group. The list had included only Hamas’ military wing.
Sounds like fundraising from amongst their dupes and cronies loyalists in the EU will continue.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/15/2003 12:49:44 AM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ...group’s resources came from Arabs and Muslims...

He's right, but the money is kept in EU banks. All they have left in Europe is the charities, which are alot easier to track.
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 3:29 Comments || Top||

#2  The European Union committed a "big mistake" by blacklisting Hamas as a terrorist organization, but the move won’t affect the group’s resistance operations, a senior leader of the Palestinian militant group said Sunday.

Nothing wrong with telling the truth. If you're exposed, well, that's just life.

The European Union has added the entire Hamas organization to its terrorist list, but stopped short of a U.S.-like crackdown on related charities that allegedly funnel money to the group.

Apparently, the EU needs proof. Give it to 'em.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/15/2003 3:46 Comments || Top||

#3  Every Hamas howl indicates a hit - and with these mercs, it's all about moneeeey. Cool. I hope the charity scam gets closed off too - then they'll be sucking air. RantSissy and the other mercs will bail to enjoy their Swiss accounts. Then we'll only have the dumb-as-dirt jihadis trying to blow themselves up with Pop Rocks and Pepsi.

We can hunt down the mercs later. It wouldn't do to have their deeds go unpunished... methinks Israel's Mossad knows how to handle this.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 4:55 Comments || Top||

#4  Terrorism is a business to these sociopaths.

They don't give a widows mite anymore about causes or politics or anything except obliterating Isreal and keeping their luxury apartments, limos, first class airline tickets, girls, whiskey and vacations in the south of Frahnz.
Posted by: SOG475 || 09/15/2003 9:37 Comments || Top||

#5  We are not terrorsts and if you say so we'll start suicide bombings throughout Europe! ~Hamas between the lines translation
Posted by: Yank || 09/15/2003 13:01 Comments || Top||

#6 
We are not terrorsts and if you say so we'll start suicide bombings throughout Europe! ~Hamas between the lines translation

It would serve the EUrodips right. Of course, they'd blame the U.S....
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 09/15/2003 18:21 Comments || Top||

#7  "The European Union has added the entire Hamas organization to its terrorist list..."
Oh? Last I heard, it was an agreement of ministerial reps, with France kicked into line - but has no force until considered by an EC comittee, proposed by said comittee, and voted upon - giving France a chance to leave it on the back burner and/or two chances to derail it.
Posted by: John Anderson || 09/15/2003 19:33 Comments || Top||

#8  Aris: you're the resident EU expert around here so please inform us as to the status and meaning of the blacklisting of Hamas. Window dressing or substantive?

And, since you were kind enough to give us a definition of terrorist in early postings, where do you place Hamas? Terrorist or freedom fighters? By the way, what is the line between the two types? What if a group attacks BOTH military targets and civilians, which Palestinian radicals do all the time. What are they then? Terrifying Freedom Fighters or Freely Dumb Terrorists?

Kidding aside, I'm seriously interested in hearing your take.
Posted by: R. McLeod || 09/15/2003 22:51 Comments || Top||


Africa: West
LURD threatens to quit government over jobs row
The Liberians United for Reconciliation and Democracy (LURD) rebel movement has threatened to pull out of a broad-based transitional government that is due to take power next month, claiming there are plans to deny it key government posts. "There are attempts by some associates of incoming transitional leader Gyude Bryant to stop the warring parties from occupying certain slots given to us in the Accra agreement," Joe Gbala, LURD Secretary General told IRIN on Friday. "They want Bryant to appoint all assistant ministers, which is a violation of the agreement," he added. Gbala formed part of the LURD delegation to talks in Ghana which led to the signing of a peace agreement between the government, LURD and another rebel faction, the Movement for Democracy in Liberia (MODEL)on 18 August.
Anybody surprised? Besides Joe, I mean... Didn't think so.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/15/2003 00:46 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I bet Chuck is absolutely amazed at the show of support he's getting in coming back to Liberia.
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 3:26 Comments || Top||

#2  "You promised! Give me the Ministry of Peace or it'll be war! Again."

Africa.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 3:45 Comments || Top||

#3  I think everyone goofed letting that little D***head Taylor leave Liberia in one piece.

Can someone shoot him? Or at least feed him to a couple of convenient crocodiles?

A mass murderer and criminal of epic proportions allowed to breathe and manipulate the politics in Liberia.

I have this feeling the African leaders would rather have a corrupt black leader in a country than a competent semicolonial mandate cleaning up Liberia. I know old Kofi Anonymous likes it that way. heaven forbid we admit these clowns can't govern themselves in their current state. What the hell happened anyway? Kenya and Liberia were functioning model democracies for the African continent. Now it seems every one of the African countries has a Mgabe clone for a leader.
Posted by: SOG475 || 09/15/2003 9:43 Comments || Top||

#4  Memo to Israel: A guy named Taylor and a guy name Arafat; don't make the same mistake.
Posted by: john || 09/15/2003 10:45 Comments || Top||

#5  Hmmmmm. I wonder what the payoff would be for a hit on Taylor? Carlos Hathcock has some worthy proteges, I'd bet. He prolly needs a bump on that retirement bubble, too.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 13:57 Comments || Top||

#6  .com, that'd be a pretty hard shot for Carlos to make, since he's been dead 4 - 5 years now.
Posted by: Steve || 09/15/2003 22:23 Comments || Top||


Africa: East
Somali leaders agree federal charter
Somalia’s factional leaders have agreed on a transitional charter which seeks to pave the way to a federal government, according to mediators. The 23 leaders attending the negotiations in Nairobi on Sunday agreed the federal system would include district, regional and state administrations to reflect the level of local administrations already in place. Kenyan diplomat Bethuel Kiplagat, the talks’ chief mediator, said agreement on the transitional charter was a “very, very important stage”. Kiplagat added 360 Somali delegates will discuss the charter on Monday. If the proposals are adopted, the talks will move into their final stage which will focus on power sharing. This will include the election of a president and the appointment of 351 members of parliament, based on Somalia’s complex clan system. Talks broke up three weeks ago when representatives disagreed over the type of federal system for the country. At least two northern regions, Puntland and Somaliland, have had their own administrations for several years. Somaliland has even been seeking international recognition as a separate country and has not taken part in talks. A further concern is that many important and influential figures have failed to turn up. Among those absent from the talks was Abd al-Qasim Hasan, president of Somalia's Transitional National Government.
Okay. Now everybody look surprised when this doesn't work...
Some of the countries underwriting the cost of the talks also felt "the conference will not be broad-based enough without the presence of these people”, James Kiboi of the Inter-Governmental Authority on Development.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/15/2003 00:42 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  351 members of parliament? That's over half the population of Somalia with a normal body-fat index!
Posted by: Steve White || 09/15/2003 0:50 Comments || Top||

#2  Old Somali saying: Me against my brother. My brother and me against our cousin. My cousin and me against the world.
Posted by: Grunter || 09/15/2003 0:56 Comments || Top||

#3  It only took them 10 years without us. I wonder how long Iraw would take without us and with UN politics involved? 20, 30 years perhaps?
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 3:20 Comments || Top||

#4  This is about the Golden Goose: NGOs. No fun just shooting and stealing from each other - they need some new blood / booty. This will provide the warlords with a centralized foe (read: target rich environment / negotiating partner) and a fresh influx of NGO money and goodies.

They've learned their lessons:

1) don't steal it ALL - let some aid get through or they'll leave

2) don't kill too many of the aid workers or they'll leave

Nothing will change. Ever.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 3:34 Comments || Top||

#5  The Anti-idiotarian Rottweiler had a link to this WSJ editorial by Martin Peretz concerning the Passive Saboteurs in the UN and NGO's.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 15:15 Comments || Top||

#6  SH - Great! That is a kick-ass story link. We knew it was happening, but the writing and research are impeccable. I have a few apologist friends who will get this link via email...

Fred - though labeled as "opinion" - I think this deserves a run of its own as a story tomorrow. It will, no doubt, draw many comments and observations.

Thx SuperHose!!!
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 15:50 Comments || Top||

#7  Good article,last week residents of my area were hit with flooding(7"of rain in 4hrs,10" over 3 days)I had some minor flooding in my house,but not bad.
Several of my neighbors had extensive flooding(from 3"-12" of sand and mud)loosing the entire contents of thier homes.3 familys lost thier entire homes,completely destroyed.The Red Cross showed-up,took a look around and said this disaster is not serious enough and is a waste of our time.These assholes will never get any of my money agin.
Posted by: raptor || 09/16/2003 8:57 Comments || Top||

#8  Good article,last week residents of my area were hit with flooding(7"of rain in 4hrs,10" over 3 days)I had some minor flooding in my house,but not bad.
Several of my neighbors had extensive flooding(from 3"-12" of sand and mud)loosing the entire contents of thier homes.3 familys lost thier entire homes,completely destroyed.The Red Cross showed-up,took a look around and said this disaster is not serious enough and is a waste of our time.These assholes will never get any of my money agin.
Posted by: raptor || 09/16/2003 8:57 Comments || Top||


Africa: North
Islamists target Morocco's Jews
Violent Islamists have murdered two members of Morocco's shrinking Jewish community in the past four days and look set to drive out most of the remaining members of a community whose history stretches back centuries.
That's that "path that respects diversity, pioneers new ideas and empowers people throughout society" that King Abdullah was talking about yesterday...
The stabbing to death of 75-year-old Elie Afrat as he left his house in Meknes, 90 miles east of Rabat, to go to the synagogue on Saturday has finally shattered what the Moroccan authorities had always held up as a model of coexistence between Muslims and Jews.
75 years old, was he? That's the kind of target Islamists like best. Shows their bravery, y'know...
The killing of Mr Afrat, one of just 120 Jews left in Meknes, came two days after a similar murder in Casablanca. On that occasion the victim was Albert Revivo, 55, a timber trader in the city's Lakria market. The authorities and community leaders first claimed that Mr Revivo's murder was connected to the black market and smuggling trade that goes through Lakria. But the killing of Mr Afrat, whose unidentified assailant ran off, drove home the message Islamist militants first sent when they bombed a Jewish centre in Casablanca on May 16. A series of suicide bombings that day, which killed 45 people in Morocco's first experience of Islamist terror, also targeted a restaurant in the city owned by a Moroccan Jew. Serge Berdugo, general secretary of Morocco's Jewish association, said: "These are all acts of terrorism aimed against us, and through us against all Morocco." A Jewish woman told the Spanish newspaper El Pais yesterday: "We must leave, not just for own security but for that of our children. What future do [Jews] have left if they must live in hiding?" Although Morocco's monarchs, including the current king, have traditionally sworn to protect the country's Jews, the community has fallen from 350,000 to 3,500 in half a century. Most young Jews have emigrated either to Europe or to Israel, where some 700,000 people claim Moroccan origin. Morocco held local elections last Friday, in which the country's main legal Islamic party, the Justice and Development party, made modest gains, despite a campaign against it by Moroccan authorities and the pro-government press, which have accused it of "moral responsibility" for the May 16 attacks.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/15/2003 00:31 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  They don't want the Jews in Morroco? I'm shocked! Shocked that Morroco is even important to the Muslims.
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 3:24 Comments || Top||

#2  "the community has fallen from 350,000 to 3,500 in half a century"
Gotta hand it to them, the Moroccan Jewish community is (was) 99% geniuses.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 3:38 Comments || Top||

#3  Shocked that Morroco is even important to the Muslims

It's important due to its nearness to Gibraltar which is the 11th most sacred Islamic site. Far more impotant than the sacred El Paso even.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/15/2003 8:46 Comments || Top||

#4  The other refugees that the UN wilfully forgets.
Posted by: Daniel King || 09/15/2003 10:28 Comments || Top||

#5  11th most sacred? Do they have a 238th most sacred shrine to?
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 15:44 Comments || Top||

#6  I believe that 238 is located on the Garden State Parkway. It's at a rest stop. Not sure which one.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/15/2003 16:34 Comments || Top||

#7  Hmmm, I always thought the 238th most sacred shrine was located in the Holy City of Cleveland!
Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/15/2003 18:43 Comments || Top||

#8  The 256th (2 to the 8 power) Most Sacred Shrine is the Anchorage, Alaska Landfill, where the properly disembowled sheep guts are thrown.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/15/2003 18:56 Comments || Top||

#9  The 210th Most Sacred Sight in Islam is an Exxon Station on the Amman- Baghdad Highway... or is it the Mass Pike? Anyways, it's said that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) once took a dump there. It's also said that you can still smell it.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/15/2003 20:53 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Israel may kill Yasser, deputy PM says
The Israeli government is considering killing Yasser Arafat as one of the means to carry out its threat to "remove" him as an obstacle to peace, Israel's deputy prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said yesterday.
That'd remove his pretty thoroughly...
The statement was immediately denounced by the Palestinian leadership, which said it was the thinking of the mafia, not a government.
Hasn't Hamas gone to the mattresses?
It also reinforced unusual questioning of the security strategy of the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, from within the country's political establishment, amid a growing belief that his insistence on a military solution to the conflict is costing Israeli lives. At the weekend, Shimon Peres, the former prime minister and present leader of the opposition Labour party, broke a long silence on criticising the government's security policies by warning Mr Sharon that the decision to "remove" Mr Arafat by exiling him, or any other method, would help the militant Islamist movement Hamas.
I said that, too. On the other hand, Yasser might do well to consider himself hostage for at least awhile. Next bus that booms, the rocket could be aimed at him, rather than at Sheikh Yassin...
"This government has destroyed the peace process," Mr Peres said on the 10th anniversary of the Oslo accords that won him a Nobel prize.
The Paleos had their chance with the road map. They wiped their collective ass with it.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/15/2003 00:16 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Peres is also forgetting that his Oslo accords were broken by the Paleo's first, not his own government.
Posted by: Charles || 09/15/2003 3:18 Comments || Top||

#2  The Israeli government is considering killing Yasser Arafat as one of the means to carry out its threat to "remove" him as an obstacle to peace, Israel's deputy prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said yesterday.

Please do. And then bury his body wrapped in pigskin.

"This government has destroyed the peace process," Mr Peres said on the 10th anniversary of the Oslo accords that won him a Nobel prize.

Maybe Ehud Barak can slap Peres to his senses.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/15/2003 3:51 Comments || Top||

#3  All we need is a group hug - and Arafish on a slab... of bacon. Side of fries and a Mecca Cola.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/15/2003 4:22 Comments || Top||

#4  Ha Aretz:

"In the government's final weeks, there was a
severe, overt crisis of leadership between
Abbas and Arafat. To clarify how peripheral an
entity the government had become, Abbas told a
story to illustrate his helplessness vis-a-vis
Arafat, and Arafat's cruelty to him. Abbas said
that after the bombing in Jerusalem, Arafat
held a meeting of the PLO Central Committee, a
body from which he had resigned earlier, at
which two proposals were raised. One, by Nabil
Sha'ath, was that Arafat name General Nasser
Yussef as his deputy, in the framework of his
position as chief of the Palestinian forces,
and that Yussef coordinate the activity of all
forces; the second was that Yussef be named
interior minister and put in charge of national
security [effectively replacing Mohammed
Dahlan]. "Nabil Sha'ath came to me with these
two proposals and presented them to me. I told
him `they are both acceptable to me' without
discussion or argument. Sha'ath left, and
phoned me 15 minutes later to say that Arafat
refuses and is not prepared to accept
preconditions from Abu Mazen. "
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/15/2003 10:17 Comments || Top||

#5  "Please do. And then bury his body wrapped in pigskin"

with Arafat this seems kinda redundant
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/15/2003 11:55 Comments || Top||

#6  oops - that was me...comments forgot who I was apparently
Posted by: Frank G || 09/15/2003 12:03 Comments || Top||

#7  One can only hope the Israeli government will hve the foresight to use an unregistered gun so the deed can't be traced back to them.
Posted by: Michael || 09/15/2003 14:17 Comments || Top||

#8  One can only hope the Israeli government will hve the foresight to use an unregistered gun so the deed can't be traced back to them.
No, make it open, make it blatant, and make it 1000% positive. Blow his stinking ass into the next eon. Do not leave even a blob of his protoplasm to pollute the earth. Let the WORLD know, and especially any islamofascists, that Israel will deal with whatever problems it faces in a manner that guarantees Israeli security of its borders and its people. Follow Arafart's death with an eviction notice for every Arab in the "occupied" territories. These territories were, indeed, occupied - by Egypt and Jordan, and considered such until Israel took them back in 1967. Now make it a permanent part of Israel, and mount a few Merkavas here and there with nuke rounds to ensure the point is plainly understood by everyone, even the loosest nut in Jihadiland. It's time Israel secured its borders, and the only way to do that is with its own might.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/15/2003 20:56 Comments || Top||



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Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has dominated Mexico for six years.
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Two weeks of WOT
Mon 2003-09-15
  Abdur Rahim: Dead again!
Sun 2003-09-14
  Human shields surround Yasser
Sat 2003-09-13
  Arafat fears "Zionist death rays!"
Fri 2003-09-12
  Syria gets new prime minister
Thu 2003-09-11
  Yasser to get the boot?
Wed 2003-09-10
  Another miss: IDF strikes at Zahar
Tue 2003-09-09
  Two Hamas booms today
Mon 2003-09-08
  Toe tag for al-Ghozi?
Sun 2003-09-07
  Yassin promises Dire Revenge™
Sat 2003-09-06
  Missed, dammit! IAF rockets Sheikh Yassin
Fri 2003-09-05
  U.S. Says Talibs on the Run, 70 to 100 Toe Tags
Thu 2003-09-04
  Army raids suspected rebel hide-out in Indian Kashmir - 7 Dead
Wed 2003-09-03
  Caucasus train boom kills four
Tue 2003-09-02
  Car boom at Baghdad cop shop
Mon 2003-09-01
  Two more Hamas snuffied zapped in Gaza


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