Regrets to her family and all that, but........
Californiaâs central coast was on high shark alert yesterday after a woman aged 50 enjoying an early-morning swim with sea lions was mauled to death in full view of a lifeguard training team. Deborah Franzman, a college sociology lecturer who swam in the Pacific several times a week, died when what is believed to be a great white shark attacked from below, taking a huge bite out of her left leg and severing her femoral artery. Four lifeguards dived in to help her, but by the time she was brought ashore she was dead. Ms Franzman had been swimming just off the pier at Avila Beach, a picturesque resort town halfway between Los Angeles and San Francisco.
If the femoral artery was severed, she didn't die instantly, but it was close...
Marine biologists say great whites usually attack humans only when they mistake them for something else. The fact that Ms Franzman was wearing a dark wetsuit and flippers might have been her undoing, said John McCosker, a shark expert with the Californian Academy of Sciences. "If you are wearing a wetsuit and fins and you are swimming with sea lions, you are doing a clumsy job of imitating shark food," Mr McCosker told the San Francisco Chronicle. It sounds like she did a first-rate job of imitating breakfast.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 3:37:41 PM ||
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a 15'-18' (determined from the bite radius and fin sighting) Great White shark eats anything it wants to...swimming with the seals in Great White territory while wearing a black wetsuit is nearly a Darwin award in itself.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 16:04 Comments ||
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Hope the shark is ok
Posted by: Michael ||
08/21/2003 16:08 Comments ||
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I feel sorry for the lifeguards who had to swim out to get her knowing there was a shark in the area and blood in the water. Hoping all that stuff about Sharks not really wanting to eat humans is true.
Apparantly being a lifeguard in North California isn't all slow motion jogs down the beach like Baywatch.
#5
No wonder the sea lions let her swim along. She was providing them a valuable service. Kind of like the role that the older antelope with the athritic knee plays for the rest of the herd in lion country.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/21/2003 16:29 Comments ||
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Jeez, what a moron. Why not go ahead and dump a bucket of chum over yer head?
#9
Yeah, I read that all the time that sharks only attack humans when they mistake them for seals. You gotta ask, though: Do sharks possess the kind of intellect where they can discriminate between one kind of meat or another? Do they care? Are they supposed to be introspective and say to themselves "I could take a bite out of that, but it would be wrong"? No, she wasn't imitating shark food, she was shark food. Moral equivelance is bad enough between different groups of humans, but to apply the doctrine between a voracious carnivore and its prey is ludicrous.
Posted by: Stephen ||
08/21/2003 21:11 Comments ||
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actually Stephen, IIUC, most of the time the human's rejected after the first or second bite (which is how a GW tastes its food lol) because it wasn't the expected pinniped delicacy
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 21:29 Comments ||
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#11
she might have lived if she'd reached up her leg and grabbed the pulsing, retracted end of her femural artery and held on to stop the blood escaping.
EFL
French President Jacques Chirac has promised to remedy defects in his countryâs health service in the wake of the heat wave that has killed thousands of mainly elderly people. Weâve proudly decided to become even more socialist!
The French funeral directors association said 10,416 had died during the first three weeks of August because of the heat wave and projected the death toll for the month from the heat wave would be 13,632. 10,000 people! Jeez! 100 degrees isnât that hot, people... its that hot everyday in Texaaaas... what gives?
France, which normally has temperatures in upper 20s Celsius (80s Fahrenheit) was hit with temperatures in the upper 30s (90s to over 100 Fahrenheit). After the first week of the heat wave, French officials, many of whom had been on vacation, thatâs what we call in here in the good olâ U.S. of A "being asleep at the wheel"
rushed back to work. The death toll soared by 3,000 in that week. In a bid to divert criticism, Chirac added: "Today, the time is for contemplation, solidarity and action. I think about each of these victims and hold out my hand and express the solidarity of the nation." what a schmuck...
Chirac rarely speaks directly to the nation after a Cabinet meeting and tends to rise above day-to-day domestic politics. Thursdayâs broadcast shows how defensive his administration feels about the crisis, which has been accused of inaction during the heat wave and the high number of deaths it caused.
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08/21/2003 9:22:29 AM ||
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sorry... that was posted by moi... ----------<<<<-
#2
This is like having 63,000 people dying in the US. It is like the Firesign Theater: the poor people have no air conditioners, so they have to leave their furnaces on during the summer.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/21/2003 9:31 Comments ||
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Can you imagine what it must smell like over there? 100 degree temps , French people and no soap or deoderant being used! God help anyone silly enough to venture over.
#4
At least the Inuit have stopped putting their elderly out on an ice floe to die. The French, however, go on vacation. As I wrote on my blog:
Où est grand-père?
Chez nous, ma petite.
Ce qui! Il fait très chaud.
C'est bien. Il est vieux. Quand nous retournons des vacances, vous pouvez avoir sa chambre à coucher.
#5
10,000 dead from 100 degrees - hmmm now I know why the Frogs were so opposed to going to Iraq!
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
08/21/2003 11:48 Comments ||
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If I remember correctly,France has a large agricultural population.I could understand it if elderly were dying in rural areas-probably few farms have/need a/c.But if they are mostly dying in cities,then I say there is a major problem in Europe.MSNBC had a report a day or so ago of suspected 1,000+ heat-related deaths in Portugal.
If the Us had anywhere near the death toll from heat like Europe's experiencing,there would be all kinds of air-conditioned shelters being made available.Why not in France,or are we not heariring of them?
Posted by: Stephen ||
08/21/2003 12:13 Comments ||
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When the heat finally cools down the only ones left at this rate will be those acclimated to real hot weather, North Africa hot weather. Shirah law may come sooner then expected in France.
#9
Why do the French expect the gov't to do everything for them. Why can't the populance do for themselves. And what is so hot about 100 degrees.
Posted by: Bill ||
08/21/2003 13:26 Comments ||
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Portugal had an estimated 1,316 deaths in the first 12 days of August that were caused by the heat wave that covered western Europe, Lusa news service said, citing the Health Ministry. The ministry said that a study by the National Health Institute reached that estimate by comparing the number of deaths in that period with the same period a year earlier, Lusa said. The deaths caused by heat will probably finish the year at a similar level to 1991, when about 1,300 heat-related deaths were registered, and less than in 1981, when there were 1,900, Lusa said.
1981 - 1991 - 2003, looks like you are getting heat waves roughly every ten years. Seems like they also have short term memory problems.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 14:11 Comments ||
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I'm right next store in Germany and yes, the last few weeks have been bad. There is, however, a simple solution.....
DRINK MORE WATER!!!
Simply put away the whine wine and drink water. If your urine is coming out yellow or a dark golden color your body is telling you that you're dehydrating. If it's clear with very little yellow then your body has enough fluids. You don't need AC. You need WATER!!!
I've been downing at least 1 1/2 gallons of water a day (working out as well) and I haven't suffered any heat injuries. France, get a clue, before you're all dead. Hmmm...uh..er...please disregard this last transmission.
Well, at least now when someone tells you to go to hell you know you can fly directly to it from most international airports.
Posted by: Paul ||
08/21/2003 14:28 Comments ||
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I think about each of these victims and hold out my hand...
...and fully expect someone to put few francs in it.
Jake, you are one bigass piece of shit.
#13
Last month, my mother had some major medical problems, and we booked out of here for Spring, Texas, down near Houston. We lost a transmission in Quanah, Texas, between Amarillo and Wichita Falls. Took us a week to get a replacement and have it installed. We lived in a single motel room while we waited. Outside, the temperature rose above 100 degrees every single day, reaching a high of 107 on one day. The heat index was usually one or two degrees higher than the actual temperature.
I don't remember anybody dying in the town from the heat.
I don't remember anyone even getting sick from the heat.
The highs there were almost 15 degrees F. higher than they were in Colorado Springs during the same week. Nobody died in Colorado Springs from the heat, either.
It was in the high 90's to low 100's in Spring, with a heat index from the low 100's into the 110 range, due to the heavy humidity.
It gets hot in France. The temperature around Marseilles is about the same as it is in Texas. Not many people are dying around Marseilles.
The people who died in France mostly died in and around Paris. They died because they weren't used to the heat, and didn't know how to cope. As Paul said, a lot of people died because they became dehydrated. Others died from being out too long in the sun. Those who were younger and still died from the heat did so because they continued to behave as if the temperatures were 'normal'. The government probably did little or nothing to educate people on what to do, and what not to do, during the exceptional heat.
Really applicable bumper sticker I saw in Texas: "Stupidity is a terminal illness. Have you seen your doctor recently?"
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2003 15:30 Comments ||
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I guess this is one of differences between heartless capitalism and paternal socialism.Here in Florida,first time temp. climbs above 80,local news starts running stories on what to do,and repeats the advice during first summer heat wave.The first big heat wave in NYC makes national news especially if there are 3-4 deaths to go with story.The story also includes details of shelters available.If Old Patriot is right(I assume he is),and most deaths are in Paris area,once death toll climbed into the 100's-let alone thousands-why didn't local or national gov't start an urgent campaign to find/create/open shelters and inform populace of safety measures people could take?
Posted by: Stephen ||
08/21/2003 17:40 Comments ||
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Our solution in Tallahassee is to shower frequently and sit quietly and think Western thoughts. Showers! That's it!
#16
From the one time I spent a few weeks in Texas isn't the local Wal Mart the air conditioned shelter? Seemed to be quite a few people wandering the aisles doing not much shopping?
Posted by: Aussie Mike ||
08/21/2003 20:05 Comments ||
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Ummm... How often does the summer temp in Phoenix fall below 100?
Posted by: Fred ||
08/21/2003 22:16 Comments ||
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I still don't get the whole thing. It was about as hot in Germany as it was in France (and we're a bit up North). Why didn't Germans die by the ten thousands? Sure television told us how to stay cool but I didn't read much about any government measures. It does get hot in a box apartment without air condition and fans sold out everywhere but cool wet towels, long trips to your shower and the local department store help. Actually I enjoyed the heat, it was dry and if you ask me, summers should be hot (and girls should wear skimpy clothes!)
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 22:58 Comments ||
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The difference, TGA? Unlike the French, Germans don't have their heads up their asses and aren't waiting for somebody to come by and pull them out for them.
EFL
ZHUKOVSKY, Russia (AP) - A Russian Sukhoi fighter wowed the audience Tuesday with its acrobatic rolls and dives. But when the American F-15 made its debut at the Moscow International Air Show, roaring high over this once-secret Soviet air base, even President Vladimir Putin leaned out of his seat for a better view. For the first time, the U.S. Air Force brought combat jets to the show at Zhukovsky airfield, where the Soviet Union once tested its military aircraft under the tightest security.
An F-15 and F-16 - rarities to Russian eyes - were parked directly opposite their former Cold War foes, the MiG-29s - the jetsâ sleek noses pointed at each other. A B-52 bomber was scheduled to arrive Wednesday. "It has always been my dream to visit Moscow, but to actually arrive here in an F-16 - I never thought Iâd see that day," said F-16 pilot Capt. Jessica Rhyne, based in Germany.
Putin, arriving by helicopter, was the opening dayâs star guest. As police and soldiers kept onlookers away, Putin peered into the cockpits of fighter jets and strolled past menacing helicopter gunships.
The Moscow event has always been as much about giving a publicity boost to the countryâs suffering aviation industry as it has about closing multimillion dollar deals. Most Russian aircraft makers found themselves struggling for survival when generous government orders dried up after the 1991 Soviet collapse. In the decade that followed, the Russian air force received just a handful of new aircraft and its pilots logged only a minimal number of flying hours, while Russian airlines spurned domestic aircraft makers for Boeing and Airbus.
Recently, Russian companies have been chasing joint projects with Western firms, and the Russian government has also pledged to make it more attractive for Russian airlines to lease Russian-made aircraft. Ilya Klebanov, minister for Industry, Science and Technologies, said Tuesday the Russian airline Transaero reached a $200 million agreement to lease 10 Tu-204 airplanes, in one of the air showâs first announced deals.
But even while the number of commercial exhibitors has grown - bucking a trend at the more established Paris Air Show, which saw the number of participants drop this year - it is still the powerful and world-renowned Russian military jets that steal the limelight.
The Sukhoi company has been the most successful - and it was its SU-30MKI that stole the show Tuesday, causing the VIP grandstand to erupt in applause. Earlier this month, Malaysia sealed a $900 million deal to buy 18 Su-30 fighters. Yemen, Indonesia and Brazil have also come shopping, and Russia has sold large batches to India and China.
Gennady Zyuganov, a lawmaker and leader of the Communist Party, suggested, however, that the Kremlin should be ashamed. "All this technology around us is from the Soviet era. Democratic Russia hasnât done anything," he said. "Ah, the good old days when men were men, vodka was vodka, and dissidents were shot!"
U.S. Air Force Maj. Gen. Edward LaFountaine said he was proud to see U.S. military aircraft parked alongside their Russian counterparts. "For us, this is a very important opportunity to show the cooperation and ever-developing ties between our two nations," he said.
Robert Myers, a weapons system operator on the F-15E, said it was an entirely new - though pleasant - experience to be standing in front of his plane on a Russian airfield, about 15 miles southeast of Moscow. "This airplane was designed to do things in Russia other than come to air shows," he said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2003 12:57:04 AM ||
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It reminds me of the joke about the British Airways pilot who had trouble at a West German Airport.
West German Air Traffic Control denied him landing rights and he remarked: "Funny, the last time I came to Dresden, I was carrying a different cargo and I had half the trouble." The Germans let them land...
Posted by: Brian ||
08/21/2003 2:26 Comments ||
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A B-52 bomber was scheduled to arrive Wednesday
I would pay serious money to watch the approach from the cabin. Has a Buff ever been deep inside Russia?
#3
"But even while the number of commercial exhibitors has grown - bucking a trend at the more established Paris Air Show, which saw the number of participants drop this year "
Ahhhh must be the weak $ vs Euro thang
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 8:15 Comments ||
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But even while the number of commercial exhibitors has grown - bucking a trend at the more established Paris Air Show, which saw the number of participants drop this year....
Ah, the US stayed away from Paris to punish the French government for their siding with the terrorists foreign (and domestic) policy. If this keeps up, Moscow will replace Paris as the premier air show.
Memo to Chiraq:
Don't **** with the US.
#7
Dale Brown,.com.Just read "Wings of Fire".
Wendy Mclahnahan died.
Sorry about spelling on next post,guess I should have finished my first cup'a'joe.
#8
raptor - Thx - I didn't see a new book for over 2.5 yrs in SaoodiLand. Just getting back into the habit here in Heaven - read new Crichton book last week. I'll look for Brown, then - got a lot of catching up to do!
Although the new low level requirement would apply to the other SAC bombers, it would have its greatest impact upon the B-52. To fly the new attack profile, the B-52C through H models were modified with a new terrain avoidance radar, an improved radar altimeter, increased cooling capacity for sustained low altitude operations, modified equipment mounts, and a general strengthening of the aircraft's secondary structures. The goal was to permit reliable, all-weather operation at 500 feet, to avoid detection, and to minimize encounters with enemy defenses. Low level training for SAC bomber crews began in the late 1950's, with actual aircraft modification beginning in 1961.
#15
What can I say? The goal wasn't reashed. Anybody that wants to jockey a B-52 through heavy fog at 500 feet is freakin' insane. It flies like a truck. A BIG truck.
#17
Buffs fly low - over oceans. Between 300 and 500 feet, depending on the mission profile, the attack profile, and the part of the globe. Most Buffs, however, wouldn't do "nape of the earth" flying because the reaction time for that lumbering junkyard flying in loose formation is too slow. Fuel consumption also goes wayyy up when flying low. You can play with the mission profile, and have some parts down low, but the average Buff flies at 2000 feet or higher. Anything else is suicide.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2003 20:33 Comments ||
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Fuel consumption goes wayyy up? Then just select another target! You'd still have enough fuel to ditch near the weather ship at tango delta.
Posted by: Pete Stanley ||
08/21/2003 21:20 Comments ||
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President Bush will make his first visit to Washington state since the 2000 election on Friday to promote his environmental policies and raise money for the Republican Party, but protesters plan to haunt his short stay. Washington is part of a sweep heâs making through the Northwest. Heâs going to rural areas â the Deschutes Forest in Oregon and the Tri-Cities area in Washington â to promote his environmental policy, but heâll be stopping off for fund-raisers in Portland tomorrow and Hunts Point on Lake Washington on Friday. Already, protest banners are being unfurled and demonstrations are sprouting throughout the central Puget Sound region as his Friday visit draws near. Events are planned for tomorrow, Friday and Saturday in Seattle, Tacoma and Bellevue. Get your banners, canât have a protest without banners.
Labor, environmental, abortion-rights and anti-war groups are objecting to just about everything Bush does, including his economic, environmental and foreign policies. "We object to President Bush being in Seattle. We would like the Northwest to be a George Bush-free zone," said Hannah McFarland, a spokeswoman for the Majority Visibility Project, a group formed to protest the war in Iraq. And they did such a good job of stopping that.
The King County Republican Party and other groups supporting the president are sponsoring a welcoming rally in Bellevue at the corner of Northeast Eighth Street and Bellevue Way from 10:30 a.m. to 2 p.m. "They wanted to send a message they welcome the president," said Mary Lane, a spokeswoman for the state Republican Party. Plenty of other groups will be sending the opposite signal, including a group that calls itself the Eighth and Bellevue Way Committee. They will be competing for space with Bush supporters to protest a broad spectrum of the presidentâs policies. Theyâll be the ones with spittle running down their shirts.
Not far away, at Bellevueâs Crossroads Park, the Bremerton Metal Trades Council and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers plan a rally and then hope to greet Bush, if he drives to the McCaw home, by lining up protesters along the road leading to the residence. "Heâs selling out the jobs in this country," said Mike Goddard, a spokesman for the group, which represents about 12,000 workers employed by private companies and government agencies. "Itâs all about big business to him. He doesnât care about labor. We donât like what heâs doing."
"Nope. Nope. Never have. Never will."
The union plans to haul in up to 2,000 protesters by bus to the road leading to McCawâs home, Goddard said. The event will last from noon to 2 p.m. The union, Washington State Democrats and other groups have a separate rally planned at Victor Steinbrueck Park next to Pike Place Market from 12:30 to 3 p.m. Environmental groups also are making the most of the presidentâs visit. Tomorrow, the Sierra Clubâs Washington, D.C.-based executive director, Carl Pope, who will be following Bush up the coast, will join several environmental groups and Physicians for Social Responsibility in a Seattle news conference condemning the presidentâs environmental policies.
"Nossir. I don't like 'em."
Friday, at Jack Hyde Park in Tacoma, the groups will host a protest rally with speakers including Rep. Adam Smith, D-Tacoma. "Tacoma provides a perfect storm of things Bush has been doing to us, from weakening protections for salmon streams to trying to weaken Endangered Species Act protections," said Kathleen Casey, with the Sierra Club in Seattle. "Itâll involve a broad spectrum of folks. And itâs not just about forest protection, but about the economy, public health and his failure to protect the overall quality of life in Washington."
"It's about his very existence! Oh, why, oh, why did I vote for Ralph?... But I'd do it again. Yes, I would..."
About 20 environmental organizations also have joined to take out full-page advertisements in newspapers in Spokane, Seattle and Tacoma, lambasting Bush for raising money in Washington while "wreaking havoc" on our environment, Casey said. On Saturday, the Majority Visibility Project, among other groups, plans to hold a rally at Myrtle Edwards Park in Seattle at noon and then march down Alaskan Way from Broad Street to Spring Street and back. They will be protesting "the world view of the Bush administration," McFarland said. Thatâs their big problem, he doesnât have a "world view", he has an American view. Board up your shops, and get the tear gas ready, itâs gonna be a busy weekend.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 4:28:45 PM ||
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"his failure to protect the overall quality of life in Washington"
Now, where is that in the Constitution?
Posted by: Matt ||
08/21/2003 16:48 Comments ||
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These asshats fail to note that Bush signed on to lower diesel emissions, which will be a substantial good for the environment. He also signed protectionist legislation for steel, timber and farms -- so much for the "anti-jobs" claim. And he signed an education bill that even Ted Kennedy liked.
Nope, these asshats are just card-carrying members of the Not-So-Vast-Left-Wing-Conspiracy, and just as goofy as the VRWC.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2003 17:14 Comments ||
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I hope they have the giant puppets - nothing declares your seriousness on the issues like a giant paper-machier puppet
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 17:49 Comments ||
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Maybe George should drive through Washington in an Abrams tank, flanked on both sides by chain-gun wielding Bradleys.
It's easy and cheap to "oppose" or "protest". It takes time, effort, money, and an IQ above 20 to actually DO something about all the problems that exist in this nation. Unfortunately, the protest-mentality groups are also the ones that helped cause a lot of the problems that need to be solved. Of course, making the connection needs more neurons than are left after 30 years of smoking pot and drinking beer.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2003 20:57 Comments ||
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"Of course, making the connection needs more neurons than are left after 30 years of smoking pot and drinking beer"
I can personally vouch that that is not true (although Merlot has replaced beer)....um..wait..what was the question?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 21:25 Comments ||
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Bring on that Abrams tank! Liking that image in my head.... still remembering this in Seattle -- the riots against the WTO, on December 2, 1999 -- and this was with Clinton in charge -- had to bring troops in.. indeed...
http://www.cnn.com/1999/US/12/02/wto.05/
Yea... bring on the Abrams -- these folks started the 60's.. still live in the 60's.... how many organizations will be there? Hummm... maybe I can go and protest about my not having.........
Posted by: Me ||
08/21/2003 23:22 Comments ||
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The only good that will come of this is that the envirogroupies tend to run around naked with slogans painted on their shapely firm little butts.
The man sitting opposite me doesnât look violent, but he is certainly capable of violence. Aside from being involved in assorted criminal activity, Hafeezullah, an activist of the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, one of many extremist religious groups in Pakistan, is one of the accused in a case rated among the countryâs worst incidents of sectarian terrorism - the 1998 massacre of 16 people in a Shia mosque in Muzaffargarh. While he doesnât admit guilt, he doesnât deny complicity either. And he has little sympathy for the victims. "Donât term them innocents, they were enemies of Islam," he contends. "And anybody who is an enemy of my religion deserves to be killed." Apart from the Muzaffargarh killings, Hafeezullah is also wanted by the authorities in dozens of other murder cases, and the government has announced a one million rupee award for information leading to his arrest. Hafeezullah cannot recall the exact number of shootouts he has been involved in, but with chilling precision he recounts the number of people he has murdered in cold blood: 21 to date. He is not troubled by any pangs of conscience. "Once you are in, you are in, and there is nothing to repent. Killing is in my blood now," he says nonchalantly.
Equipped with pagers and mobile phones, armed with heavy machine guns and automatic pistols, and supported by a well-entrenched party network, a new generation of militants has come of age and is ruthlessly pursuing its real and perceived enemies within and outside Pakistan. Hundreds are wanted for myriad crimes - from murder to kidnapping to house robbery, to acts of terrorism. Hafeezullahâs journey began when, as a five-year-old in 1981, his impoverished parents sent him as a boarder to a madrassah for religious education in his home town, Muzaffargarh, in southern Punjab. As he grew older, he started attending religious lectures, learnt first-hand about jihad as he saw his senior colleagues leave for Afghanistan to fight the Soviet occupation, and finally joined a militant religious outfit - the extremist Sunni Sipah-e-Sahaba, Pakistan (SSP) - himself. Soon thereafter, Hafeezullah was asked to go across the border for combat training. Completely indoctrinated, he readily agreed, "That was the final nail in the coffin. When I returned to Pakistan after the training I was an altogether changed person," he says. However, he claims he became far stronger psychologically as a result of the Afghan experience. "When I was leaving for that totally alien land, I was scared. But after undergoing so much training, by the time I completed my course I had became so strong within that I used to feel I could single-handedly defeat an entire battalion of enemies. Subsequent to the training, I came home, but soon thereafter returned to Afghanistan and fought for two years. However, by then the focus of my organisation had changed - and so had the enemy. After the withdrawal of the Soviets from Afghanistan in 1990, the new nemesis was the enemies of Islam within the country," he says. And according to his party high command, these were the Shia "infidels." When he moved back to Pakistan, he and his militant brothers brought the war against the Shias back with them.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/21/2003 2:46:33 AM ||
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This is the end-product of the Wahabbi script. And the exact negative of a functioning rational man. For those who still believe there can be even a dialog, much less a peaceful coexistence, once this ilk oozes out of the backwaters of the world and into the West, this should be required reading. A quiz should be administered afterwards to see if they are intellectually honest and capable of connecting adjacent dots - many of the tool-phools are definitely suspect in this regard.
#2
A Pakistani describing Afghanistan as "that totally alien land"?
Reminds me of the phrase ".. so narrow minded (that) he could look through a keyhole with both eyes."
President Pervez Musharraf on Wednesday called for solving political issues by utilizing democratic and constitutional means. He was speaking during the question-answer session at the conference organized here by the Berlin-based anti-corruption organisation Transparency International (TI). The president said that political instability and sectarian and militant extremism were hindering Pakistan from realizing its full potential. Dismissing the notion that the country needed any aid to move ahead, Gen Musharraf said that the nation needed to "put the house in order," adding that Pakistan possessed necessary resources and was capable of making progress. Referring to the present political and governance scenario, the president eliminated the possibility of any political interference and called for generating momentum to achieve national objectives, saying that the government possessed a majority in the assemblies necessary to pass any legislative measure any time. He cautioned about assigning extra importance to what was happening in the assemblies, saying it would not stop the government from performing its role. "We want democracy to mature in Pakistan," President Musharraf said.
"How long'll it take to mature?"
"'Bout 900 years..."
Technocrats, businessmen and representatives of the United Nations, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund are attending the conference to discuss public and private sector corruption with government representatives.
Comparing notes? Or techniques?
Later, addressing the participants of the conferenceâs concluding session Gen Pervez Musharraf said: "Strong and autonomous state institutions, merit-based selections, and removal of discretionary powers are the basic ingredients to check corruption." Other measures, he said, needed in this regard were reducing human contact through e-governance, improving the quality of law enforcement agencies and "an honest, dedicated and correct leadership." Enumerating governmental measures taken in the past three years, the president said that the creation of an anti-graft watchdog National Accountability Bureau (NAB) and the Securities Exchange Commission of Pakistan (SECP) plus complete autonomy of the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) were just some measures aimed at wiping out corruption. Referring to the local government system, he said that it was now in place where the people could keep a watch against misuse of public sector funds.
Posted by: omer ishmail ||
08/21/2003 1:35:15 AM ||
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WHAT A PARADOX,THE WORLD IS FALLING APART DICTATORS TALKING ABOUT DEMOCRATIC AND CONSTITUITIONAL MEANS- WHEN HE AND HIS FELLOW ARMY MEN HAVE VIOLATED THEM BOTH - REPEATEDLY 25 OUT 51 YEARS AND NO ELECTED GOVERNMENT HAS EVER COMPLETED ITS TENURE OF OFFICE IN THAT COUNTRY ....
#3
Omer Ishmail -
Interesting post, but why are you SCREAMING?
Are a Pakistani? Are you IN Pakistan? If so, do you feel you need to scream? I guess I can sympathize.
As for Musharraf, when he did allow elections he won by a huge margin and, except for the incredibly absurd asshat jackoff dipshit parasitic corrupt whore-mongering political party hacks and the totally fucking insane backward brutal barabaric Islamicist fuckwads, he's still very popular. This information came to me from Pakistanis I worked with in Saudi Arabia who went "home" regularly. They liked and trusted Musharraf - and indicated most people do / did. They said he was trying to bring Pakistan out of the 7th or 8th century into the present.
Kicking and SCREAMING, it seems.
But then even the cynics and irrational asshats were innocent open-minded people, once.
I don't care for dictators, either... But if not Musharraf, given the mass insanity of Pakistan, it would probably be some Islamic "cleric" bent on eliminating internal party competition and, external to his "party", anyone different from himself. Perhaps you should be rather more glad of that fact than you seem. From any POV that actually involves rational thought, Musharraf the progressive dictator is certainly the lesser of those two evils - by a wide margin.
If a miracle occurs and the Pakistani people suddenly throw off the yoke of the Islamicists, Sunni and Shia alike, and adopt tolerance and peace and a thirst for knowledge as a way of life, then you will be able to have a discussion about military dictators - and your comments will actually matter, since they won't be swept away in a sea of religious violence and mayhem.
But that hasn't happened, yet, has it? No, I didn't think so. Have a nice day, anyway.
#4
.com - yep, he did win by a huge margin, 97% in fact, even Musharaff was embarrased by such an obvious amount of rigging, so he declared that some of his followers were "over enthusiastic".
What Omer is probably referring to when he disparages the Pakistani military, is that is directly responsible for many of Pakistan's present day ills. Although there highpoint was definitely when they killed 1 to 3 million Bangladeshis before surrending unconditionally to the Indians in 1971, arguably another of their great crimes is turning Pakistan into Jihad central.
From the time of General Zia ul Haq in 1975, to General Pervez Musharaff in 2003, the Pakistani Army (and it's subsidiary - the ISI) has been in alliance with the most reactionary religious elements in the country. The extremist Deobandi Mullahs have been given free rein to recruit Jihadis and train them in ISI-run camps throughout Pakistan for the past 2 decades. First the Jihadis were used to fight in Afghanistan, and then after the Soviets pulled out, the Generals diverted this private armies to fight in Indian administered Kashmir. Just like in Afghanistan, the Jihadis were killing and dying for the strategic interests of Pakistan.
Throughout the 90's, armed Jihadis operated in Pakistan with complete impunity, holding demonstrations where thousands would march down the street firing weapons in the air, and contributing to the total anarchy that existed in that country. But the ISI/Army always made sure that the police could not do anything to bring them into line, because if they arrested them it would 'demoralise' the cause of Jihad.
This is where Musharaff comes in. For the past 4 years he has been the military dictator in charge of the country, and he continued the Army policy of supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the Jihadis in Kashmir.
He ditched the Taliban after being given after 911, but he had the ISI organise the disparate Islamist groups into one alliance, and then gave them control over two Pakistani provinces.
Of course he also released all the leaders of the terrorist Jihad groups from house arrest, and even put one of them in his government.
The dark truth in Pakistan is that the Mullahs and the military are two sides of the same coin, they have been allies for 30 years, and it doesn't look like changing any time soon. Afterall, they share the same outlook - Pakistan is the citadel of Islam, Kashmir must be "liberated" into Pakistani control, Pakistani liberals are a fifth column, and the Pakistani army must maintain it's dominant position in the country.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/21/2003 4:22 Comments ||
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#5
PM - Obviously you have a far better command of the details than I (to be honest, I can't keep up with the myriad of factions of factions...). So, while I don't doubt any of your statements, I still see Musharraf as "holding back the tide" in Pakistan. That was my point - he is the better side of the coin, so to speak, and was deserving of better than given. If Omer (assuming he's Pakistani) and his countrymen would like to go where Musharraf is leading, whether led by him or not, then they should clean up the other side - and stop the incessant assassination attacks. If not - and they really do treasure their role as the most throughly insane society on the planet - then they should stand up and wave their arms at the West, like the Black Hats of Iran, and we can stop trying to cooperate with Musharraf and put them down for carpet-nuking, I guess. MusharrafLand is a muddled muddle of murderous Muslims methinks. Say what? ;-)
#6
Most of your arguments in favour of Musharraf could just as easily have been used in favour of Saddam...
"and stop the incessant assassination attacks"
If you are talking about assasination attacks against Musharraf, then why the hell should they stop the assasination attacks against a bloody dictator? (and all dictators are bloody)
Oh, yes, if not for Musharraf some Pakistani cleric would take the lead. And if not for Saddam some Iraqi cleric would have taken the lead. And indeed may still do. But indicating some dictator as progressive... Pfft. Yeah, about as "progressive" as Saddam or the house of Saud is.
#7
Aris - well if that isn't a troll comment, I've never seen one. Musharraf = Hussein? What a classic troll statement - painting it black or white when it suits you, then playing with a million shades of gray what that suits you. I've seen you split hairs so small as to be indetectable to anyone else - and they made the mistake of engaging you - a waste of effort. Here you toss out a tree trunk and imply equivalence - that's just trolling. You're on-form, today. If you wanna play, get a mirror. Not interested.
#8
You've said that Musharraf stood against Islamic fundies. So did Saddam. You've said that he won elections with overwhelming majority. So did Saddam. (None of these elections were free and fair of course).
What I do know is that they are both bloody dictators who've attempted destabilisation of nearby countries. And while Iraq used chemical WMDs, Pakistan has *nuclear* WMDs.
I think it's your responsibility to indicate the ways that these people are *not* morally equivalent. And "We like Musharraf but don't like Saddam" doesn't work, .com, as once upon a time "we" liked Saddam also.
#9
And, btw, it's *your* calls towards a nation to stop their assasination attempts against their tyrant, that I find to be either trolling or just morally obscene. "Stay subjugated, be happy!" Whatever.
"We" never liked Saddam. That's a piece of antiwar mythology, and just as bogus as the claim that "the U.S. trained Bin Laden."
During the 1980s, when we perceived Iran as the greater threat, the US did provide Iraq with very limited intelligence support. That was arguably a mistake, but an understandable one. Iraq's primary weapons supplier was the U.S.S.R. (that's where all the T-72s and AK-47s came from), with the French (Mirage III fighters) and Germans (Roland SAMs) in a supporting role.
Besides, if it were true that the U.S. "liked Saddam" at one time, that would only strengthen the argument for removing him. After all, if "we" were responsible for putting him in power, then don't "we" have a moral duty to atone for the error and remove the source of the suffering "we" inflicted on the Iraqi people?
Posted by: Mike ||
08/21/2003 8:45 Comments ||
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#11
Right Omar. And remember the Shah of Iran was an evil megalomanic dragging his country into the 20th century on the broken bodies of his people. Corrupt and vain. Things would only be better when he was ousted. Or so we were told.
Posted by: Don ||
08/21/2003 9:21 Comments ||
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#12
Aris,
You make a good point, if it's your point that we should not get too cozy with Mushy. Equating him with Saddam, however, is bull%#$ and you know it. You're just being stubborn and dishonest when you say they are both dictators with WMD. That's pretty much par for the course for you when it comes to intellectual honesty. Blur all distinctions and erase all context. Never mention that Saddam was a declared enemy sworn to revenge. Forget everything you know about Saddam's history and 30-year record and personality cult. Mushy is a shady character but next to Saddam he's the Dali Llama.
I hope that peaceful reform comes to Pakistan, sooner rather than later. And you can be sure that the U.S. will support it. But let's be realistic. The first step should be to reform or replace all those Wahabbi funded Madrassahs.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
08/21/2003 9:44 Comments ||
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#13
Aris the pathological liar: And "We like Musharraf but don't like Saddam" doesn't work, .com, as once upon a time "we" liked Saddam also.
We never "liked" Saddam. From the moment of his coup, we cut off relations with Iraq - gradually improving them only after the Iranian hostage situation. We don't "like" Musharraf - the alternative to him is either the Pakistani version of the Taliban or at minimum a nuclear-armed hostile regime (kind of like a nuclear-armed Greece).
The State Department keeps on pushing democracy as the solution to all our problems. The truth is that democracy only works if it is enforced by American power. Otherwise, you get situations like Algeria and Pakistan pre-Musharraf, where Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif were racing the mullahs to see how quickly they could impose Islamic theocracy.
#14
Aris: You've said that Musharraf stood against Islamic fundies. So did Saddam. You've said that he won elections with overwhelming majority. So did Saddam. (None of these elections were free and fair of course).
Saddam and Bush also get up and shave in the morning. They put on their pants one leg at a time. The fact that they share certain common characteristics does not make them the same. This is the kind of simplistic "analysis" that Aris comes up with all the time.
The important thing about the Musharraf vs Saddam comparison is that Musharraf is with us, for now. Aris seems to think that all foreign ties should be unconditional love-fests. Our ties to Musharraf are not. This is why he got monetary aid but no F-16's. His reliability as an ally (as opposed to friend, which he probably won't ever be) remains to be seen - just before 9/11, he was sponsoring the Taliban. Whatever Musharraf's foibles, Pakistan is a more valuable ally than Greece, which is a neutral, if not hostile, country.
What we are finding out is that democracies are not natural allies of other democracies. Each country has its particular foibles. The Greeks in particular are in the grip of an anti-American pathology that is daily reducing the power of the influential Greek lobby here in America.
#15
Dictators come in all sizes: some of them limit themselves to govern without elections while still tolerating some dissent, some others have the daughters of opponents raped by state rapers, put people into plastic shredders or drop gas on civilian cities.
#16
Zhang, as long as you accept the the important thing about the Musharraf vs Saddam comparison is that Musharraf is "with you" and Saddam was not, that's okay. I'll agree.
This of course give no reason whatsoever why the average Pakistani should like Musharraf or stop assasination attempts against him.
People in America may consider it a plus for a foreign dictator to be on their side, but in the long terms it tends to simply anger the native population against America.
"as opposed to friend, which he probably won't ever be"
GW Bush disagrees.
``President Musharraf is a courageous leader and a friend of the United States. America has a strong relationship with Pakistan''
"Whatever Musharraf's foibles, Pakistan is a more valuable ally than Greece, which is a neutral, if not hostile, country. "
And why, Zhang Fei, should I care about how valuable an ally to America is a country of slaves?
My values are more pan-human than that. Pakistan is a dictatorship with more than a hundred million people in it. Greece may be small and theoretically "hostile" to your ambitions, but atleast it's a country of free men.
"The Greeks in particular are in the grip of an anti-American pathology that is daily reducing the power of the influential Greek lobby here in America."
And Americans are in the grip of a war the enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend pathology that doesn't see how the dictatorships it's propping up today will turn around and bite it in the ass tomorrow. A war pathology that ignores that democracies like even France are ten times more trustworthy allies than dictatorships like Pakistan or quasi-dictatorships like Russia are.
And that, no matter what you may say about democracies not being natural allies, that's just extreme foolishness. How many true democracies have you had to invade lately to protect yourselves? None. How many true democracies have militarily threatened other democracies? None.
If you want security stop propping up dictators, "friendly" or not. Dictators care only about their own power and your former friends (and Dubya *called* Musharraf a friend) have a tendency of either turning into enemies when it suits them better or being overthrown and the popular hostility towards the US-supported dictator turning into popular hostility towards the US itself. Leading to either a hostile-to-the-US democracy (like Greece), or a hostile-to-the-US different-kind-of-tyranny (like Iran).
#17
JFM> Rapes, murders, attacks on civilian cities with thousands of people killed... Nothing that *Putin's* forces haven't done in Chechenya, and yet the people here still seem to prefer him to Chirac, given the guffawing over American forces ditching that Paris air show in favour of the one in Moscow. Or some such thing.
But I can concede that Saddam was a worst tyrant than Musharraf currently appears to be. I just don't know if this happens only because Saddam had a much tighter grip on power than Musharraf does. After all not all of Saddam's excesses were immediately apparent either.
Nero himself seemed benevolent during the first few years of his reign.
Saddam - hundreds of thousands if not millions killed. Many more imprisoned tortured, etc.
Perv - a few opposition leaders threatened with imprisonment.
Saddam - started and persisted for years in WMD programs. Perv - continued existing Paki nuclear program
Saddam - started war with Iran, invaded and annexed Kuwait, attacked Israel. Perv -supported limited war in Kashmir, where Pak has genuine (if disputable) claims.
Saddam - no opposition parties allowed.
Perv - several opposition parties exist
Saddam - no free press.
Perv - free press
Saddam - no open politics at all - any questioning of govt can result in death
Perv - presidential election fraudulent. Parliamentary election resulted in victories of opposition parties, some limited fraud claimed, claim disputed.
Saddam - used terror as means at home and abroad.
Perv - turned Pakistan away from support for Taliban, has failed to completely turn ISI and military away from ties with terrorists.
#19
Saddam vs Vlad the impaler
Saddam - attacked Iran, Kuwait, Israel.
Vlad - only war is in Chechnya, universally recognized as part of Russia
Saddam - commited genocide against kurds, marsh arabs.
Vlad - allowed his troops to commit war crimes in Chechnya - no evidence of deliberate genocide
Saddam - no open political activity
Vlad - won in free election
Saddam - no free press - all opposition at risk of death
Vlad - owners of major opposition TV networks subject to legal harrassment
Saddam - developed WMD in violation of treaties and UN
Vlad - has observed disarmament treaties. Quibbles about nature of support he gives to Iran, etc.
Saddam - worst tyrant on the planet. Glad we're rid of him.
Perv - definitely a problem. Alliance of convenience may be necessary, but cant last long term, unless he changes
Vlad - not our problem. Watch him though.
#21
That's a good list. I'd also like a Vlad-vs-Chirac checklist though, if I'm to understand why France is hated more than Russia... But I recognize that's a different discussion.
#22
Aris: Never trust dictators to *remain* benevolent.
There's an important thought. Perv is not Saddam as LH points out. Perv might be a better guy who's trying to lead his country to the mid 17th century or so. Then again, he might be a scumbag who just can't get his evil thoughts on track.
We can use such people to help meet our ends, but we should never trust them. The Cold War should have taught us that. Perv, Vlad, and the rest all need a gimlet eye kept upon them.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2003 14:01 Comments ||
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#23
Russia vs France
1. Russia - opposed US policy on Iraq
France - organized and led oposition to US policy on Iraq, including lobbying of small third world states, bullying east europeans,etc
2. Russia - was never really seen as our friend
France - an "ally" sense of betrayal deeper, and more frustrating when war opponents said "our allies are against it"
3. Vlad the impaler seems to have a good personal relationship with Dubya, and helped him (albeit grudgingly) on missile defense issue.
Point 1 is a very real and important international relations issue - we can look the other way when somebody opposes us (and should be mature enough to do so) but when somebody goes to that extent to lobby the world against our policies it behooves us to impose at least some consequnces, else we are a paper tiger.
2. Is less rational, but is very deep, and accounts for much of the gut reaction against France.
3. Is something that I personally have little patience with.
#24
"1. Russia - opposed US policy on Iraq France - organized and led oposition to US policy on Iraq, including lobbying of small third world states, bullying east europeans"
Hmm... I'd have put it somewhat like this: France- organized and led opposition to US policy on Iraq. Russia - sent officials to militarily help Saddam even days prior to the war. France - back in the 70s helped Iraq with a nuclear plant, Russia - *currently* helping Iran with nuclear plants...
And ofcourse there's the whole war crimes in Chechenya, sliding back to autocracy thing.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2003 17:16 Comments ||
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#26
France has been of little import since 1914. Without Russia French foreign policy relies on magic and cheap shoes. Cut the Russ slack. Can and boil the frog.
A previously unknown Iraqi group claimed responsibility for the attack on the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad this week, an Arabic television channel said on Thursday. Dubai-based Al Arabiya said it received a statement claiming responsibility from an Iraqi Islamist group calling itself the "Armed Vanguards of the Second Mohammed Army.""The statement promised to make war on all foreigners and do similar acts," the station, showing a picture of the statement in Arabic, said. "It warned Arab countries against sending armed forces to Iraq and called for continuing what it called acts of jihad (holy war) against all those who help the Americans, even if they are Arab or Muslim," the station said.
They could be these guys that DEBKA told us about yesterday: Muhammadâs ArmyThis group of Iraqi Baathists operates in the guise of Muslim fundamentalists. They are concentrated around Baghdad international airport and the cluster of military airfields in Habania and western Iraq, H-1, H-2 and H-3, armed with shoulder-launched Sam 7 anti-air missiles. In July, they tried to down a US fighter plane and a C-130 transport but missed both.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 1:59:21 PM ||
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#1
"Armed Vanguards of the Second Mohammed Army."
I think they open for the Kerbalist Thought Club...
#2
It is possible that the '2nd Mohammed' is supposed to be Saddam or maybe Osama b L Also possible they just liked the way the name sounds in Arabic (doubt that Dave Barry would say it is a good name for a rock band).
Interesting OP/ED in the Washington Times by Ion Mihai Pacepa, a Romanian, the highest-ranking intelligence officer ever to have defected from the former Soviet bloc. Edited for length, click on the title and read the whole article:
As a former Romanian spy chief who used to take orders from the Soviet KGB, it is perfectly obvious to me that Russia is behind the evanescence of Saddam Husseinâs weapons of mass destruction. After all, Russia helped Saddam get his hands on them in the first place. The Soviet Union and all its bloc states always had a standard operating procedure for deep sixing weapons of mass destruction â in Romanian it was codenamed "Sarindar, meaning "emergency exit."I implemented it in Libya. It was for ridding Third World despots of all trace of their chemical weapons if the Western imperialists ever got near them. We wanted to make sure they would never be traced back to us, and we also wanted to frustrate the West by not giving them anything they could make propaganda with.
All chemical weapons were to be immediately burned or buried deep at sea. Technological documentation, however, would be preserved in microfiche buried in waterproof containers for future reconstruction. Chemical weapons, especially those produced in Third Worldcountries,which lack sophisticated production facilities, often do not retainlethal properties after a few months on the shelf and are routinely dumped anyway. And all chemical weapons plants had a civilian cover making detection difficult, regardless of the circumstances. The plan included an elaborate propaganda routine. Anyone accusing Moammar Gadhafi of possessing chemical weapons would be ridiculed. Lies, all lies! Come to Libya and see! Our Western left-wing organizations, like the World Peace Council, existed for sole purpose of spreading the propaganda we gave them. These very same groups bray the exact same themes to this day. We always relied on their expertise at organizing large street demonstrations in Western Europe over Americaâswar-mongering whenever we wanted to distract world attention from the crimes of the vicious regimes we sponsored.
Iraq, in my view, had its own "Sarindar" plan in effect direct from Moscow. It certainly had one in the past. Nicolae Ceausescu told me so, and he heard it from Leonid Brezhnev. KGB chairman Yury Andropov, and later, Gen. Yevgeny Primakov, told me so too. In the late 1970s, Gen. Primakov ran Saddamâs weapons programs. After that, as you may recall, he was promoted to head of the Soviet foreign intelligence service in 1990, to Russiaâs minister of foreign affairs in 1996, and in 1998, to prime minister. What you may not know is that Primakov hates Israel and has always championed Arab radicalism. He was a personal friend of Saddamâs and has repeatedly visited Baghdad after 1991, quietly helping Saddam play his game of hide-and-seek. The Soviet bloc not only sold Saddam its WMDs, but it showed them how to make them "disappear." Russia is still at it. Primakov was in Baghdad from December until a couple of days before the war, along with a team of Russian military experts led by two of Russiaâs topnotch "retired" generals,Vladislav Achalov, a former deputy defense minister, and Igor Maltsev, a former air defense chief of staff. They were all there receiving honorary medals from the Iraqi defense minister. They clearly were not there to give Saddam military advice for the upcoming warâSaddamâs Katyusha launchers were of World War II vintage, and his T-72 tanks, BMP-1 fighting vehicles and MiG fighter planes were all obviously useless against America. "I did not fly to Baghdad to drink coffee," was what Gen. Achalov told the media afterward. They were there orchestrating Iraqâs "Sarindar" plan. Makes sense to me.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 12:40:53 PM ||
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#1
Remember the convoy of Russian "diplomats" that didn't follow their advertised egress route from Bagdad and got whacked. I felt bad about that mistake.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/21/2003 12:54 Comments ||
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#2
Me too, should of wacked them on the way in.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 13:01 Comments ||
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#3
Some heads will roll with this one... Awesome info - I hope Pacepa's got his ass thoroughly covered - Prez Putty and Gen Primavera are still puttering around, after all.
The next paragraph sorta puts a period at the end of the WMD hunt: "The U.S. military in fact, has already found the only thing that would have been allowed to survive under the classic Soviet "Sarindar" plan to liquidate weapons arsenals in the event of defeat in war â the technological documents showing how to reproduce weapons stocks in just a few weeks."
He explains Putty's UN stance, too. Putty knew nothing would be found, so he could play the Euro side for what they were worth to him and know there would be no egg on his face when he faced Dubya, again... except he didn't plan on Pacepa (or other equally informed person) going Op-Ed and spilling the beans...
Definitely time to disinvite Prez Putty regards that upcoming trip to Texas I've read about - unless he's willing to be the main BBQ course.
I wish Pacepa would do more to discredit the tool-phools - this is Non-Trivial info. He only shoots down the World Peace Council... by affiliation, I guess that might show several others for what they are. Removing their cover for the doofs of the press and the tools to see is long long overdue. These groups are so incestuous that some enterprising reporter might take down the entire house of cards. These "suckers welcome" orgs run most of the West's anti-govt "demonstrations" (and funnel money to the goofy pol parties, such as the so-called "Greens") - much the same as the NorKs have manipulated the idiot SKor "student" groups. Isn't it time to hear from our resident IndyMedia fount of wisdom?
Pacepa's a brave dude - and I hope we are covering him vewy vewy well, indeed - he'll need the resources of a state to stay alive.
#4
These groups are so incestuous that some enterprising reporter might take down the entire house of cards. well said, .com!
I've always wondered why the intelligence services don't leak enough info to make the public aware of the connections, it's such a small worthless group of dirtbags allowed to have such a big influence. It's time for their gig to be up.
Sometimes I get ticked that the Intelligence Services just seem to collect information endlessly .... but never seem to actually do anything with it. While I understand the benefit of letting the small fry go to get the big fish, it really doesn't do any good to endlessly create file folders, year after year after year, and never do anything with the information but use it to collect more of it.
#5
It's hard (for me) to know how much of this to take seriously. But this:
Our Western left-wing organizations, like the World Peace Council, existed for sole purpose of spreading the propaganda we gave them. These very same groups bray the exact same themes to this day.
I have often wondered if some of the more surreal beliefs held by the world's moonbats weren't originally Soviet propaganda, which continues to grow and prosper long after the death of its host organism.
But I have always figured that was tinfoil hat territory.
#6
Sometimes I get ticked that the Intelligence Services just seem to collect information endlessly .... but never seem to actually do anything with it.
The majority of the people who actually work in spook outfits like the ones I've belonged to and know about (a lot!), and that I'm sure Fred and a few others here have been associated with, are very carefully, very fully restricted about what we can and can't say, can and can't do. The document I signed just before my retirement limits me from saying almost anything for seventy years after I retire - that is, until (supposedly) long after I'll probably be dead anyway.
The collection and analysis is done by professionals - the dissemination (actual release and use) is governed by politicians. Need I say anything more?
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2003 21:23 Comments ||
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The 55 most-wanted Iraqis and their status, according to U.S. Central Command. Thirty-seven are in custody, 15 remain at large, two have been confirmed killed and one has been reported killed. Here are those still missing:
-No. 1: Saddam Hussein, president.
-No. 6: Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, Revolutionary Command Council vice chairman, longtime Saddam confidant.
-No. 7: Hani Abd al-Latif Tilfah al-Tikriti, director, Special Security Organization.
-No. 14: Sayf al-Din Fulayyih Hasan Taha al-Rawi, Republican Guard chief of staff.
-No. 15: Rafi Abd al-Latif Tilfah al-Tikriti, director of general security.
-No. 16: Tahir Jalil Haboush, chief of Iraqi intelligence service.
-No. 21: Rukan Razuki Abd al-Ghafar Sulayman al-Majid al-Tikriti, head of tribal affairs office.
-No. 27: Gen. Sultan Hashim Ahmad, defense minister.
-No. 36: Sabawi Ibrahim Hasan, presidential adviser, Saddamâs half brother.
List is getting shorter, some of these most likely died during the war and are buried in unmarked graves. Sammy is the important one, we only have to get lucky once.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 11:56:29 AM ||
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BTW, WaPo this AM says an automatic rifle goes for $100 in Iraq.
An Australian land mine expert survived the truck bombing at the UN offices in Baghdad - less than a year after narrowly escaping injury in the Bali nightclub blasts. Rodney Cocks, of Melbourne, was at the UN headquarters when the huge explosion rocked the building on Tuesday, the Sydney Morning Herald said. The 27-year-old was in Iraq as part of a mine clearance unit. The newspaper said that moments before the detonation, he left his desk, about 15 yards from the centre of the blast, and walked to another office to search for a phone number. "I was standing there, and the next thing I know I was covered in glass," Cocks told the Herald. "I was on the floor, bleeding. I couldnât breathe, there was thick black smoke all around and fire." Last October, Cocks -- who was on leave from duty in East Timor with the Australian Army -- was about 40 yards from Paddyâs Bar when the first of two explosions rocked Kuta, killing 202 people. "I am sore and battered but I canât believe my luck," he said. "Someone is looking after me. If I had been at my desk on Tuesday I would have been dead." Rodney, let us know where you are planning your next vacation so we can stay far away.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 10:09:32 AM ||
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how many chances can a guy named Cocks get?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 10:24 Comments ||
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U.S. forces captured a suspected senior member of Saddam Husseinâs Fedayeen militia who was carrying a shopping list for explosives materials, a military official said Thursday. "Whatâs this list in your pocket, letâs see; milk, eggs, C-4, det cord, bread, batteries...humm, lock him up."
The man, Rashid Mohammed, was also holding a list of ten Iraqi names that U.S. forces believe was an assassination list when soldiers stopped his car on a highway north of Baqouba, 45 miles northeast of Baghdad, with two other men in a car, Lt. Col. William Adamson from the 588th Engineering Battalion said. Mohammed was detained along with two men who were traveling with him, he added. "We suspect this was a senior man organizing Saddam Fedayeen activities in Baqouba. We also have reason to believe, based on documents obtained, that he was actively purchasing improvised explosive devices with remote controlled detonators," Adamson said. He did not give the names of the people on the list. I expect somebody will be in touch with them.
Adamson said other informants had told U.S. forces that Mohammed had been trying to organize a 600-strong militia in the area around Baqouba. And now he wonât.
In a second operation northeast of Baghdad, U.S. soldiers raided a farmhouse Thursday after receiving a tip that Saddam was hiding there, U.S. military officials said on condition of anonymity. They detained five men but did not find the former Iraqi leader, the officials said. One soldier was shot in the arm as the soldiers from the 67th Armored Regimentâs 3rd Battalion left the village, U.S. military authorities said, adding his injuries were not considered serious. The house that was raided was owned by an alleged Saddam loyalist, Khalid al-Dosh. It was not immediately known if he was among those detained. Officers with the 4th Infantry said a second informant told them that two wanted men - Hussein Ali Taha and Haji Abed - also were in the house that was raided. It was not clear if the pair were among the five detained, nor did the military say for what the men were wanted. "I can say no more"
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 9:30:05 AM ||
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U.S. soldiers raided a farmhouse
Damn it always sounds like they're after grandpa Walton.
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Ali Hassan al-Majid, a feared cousin of Saddam Hussein nicknamed "Chemical Ali" for his use of poison gas in attacks, has been captured by U.S. forces in Iraq, CNN said on Thursday. CNN said it had no further details of where Majid had been detained. He was number five on a U.S. list of the 55 most wanted Iraqis and the "king of spades" in a U.S. army deck of cards depicting fugitive members of Saddamâs government. Puh-lease, file extradition to Kurdistan immediately. Or let him "escape" in Kurdish controlled territory.
Like I always say, they've got to be lucky every time. We only have to be lucky once. I sure hope they plan on trotting him out on the teevee for all the Arabs to see, so they can be inspired.
I'll be outside, ululating and firing off my AK for the rest of the day... I think I'll hoist a cold one, too...
Posted by: Mark IV ||
08/21/2003 7:42:51 AM ||
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#1
Damn, how many times has this guy been captured?
#2
First time captured, but he has been "killed" more times than I can count.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 8:31 Comments ||
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#3
Really!?! Are they really sure they have caught this scum bag? After all, we have heard reports (several times) that Chemical Ali was killed in numerous attacks.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
08/21/2003 8:39 Comments ||
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#4
Holy Hazmat, Batman! This is good news. Need to verify, though. This guy is like John Barleycorn. They tried to kill him, but he keeps coming up.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/21/2003 9:11 Comments ||
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#5
I'm awaiting official confirmation before starting the ululating.
Posted by: Kathy K ||
08/21/2003 9:14 Comments ||
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Posted by: Kathy K ||
08/21/2003 9:23 Comments ||
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#7
Does anyone rember the Kurt Russel charecter Snake Pliskin from Escape from NY. Everyone thought he was dead also.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/21/2003 9:37 Comments ||
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#8
Yesss,beer and brauts all around I can hear Stevee boy crying now.steveerosa aka stevey"pilsbury boy"robinson.May not be the same but sure sounds like our boy stevey.
They all thought Big Jake(aka John Wayne)was dead too.
#9
Is it just me or are the Kurds doing the lions share of rolling up ol' saddams gang?
Didnt we kill this guy on D-day+3? Gosh, Can we expect to see a Nuremburg style trial any time soon?
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
08/21/2003 13:01 Comments ||
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#10
Indeed good news and deserving of a cold one. As head of the Fedayin Saddam, this will really put a wrench in their ops.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/21/2003 13:02 Comments ||
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#11
Rex Mundi? That wasn't Chemical Ali, that was Qusai Hussein!
Posted by: Lu Baihu ||
08/21/2003 13:20 Comments ||
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#12
FM
BBC
'Dilshad Miran, of the Kurdistan Democratic Party, said Iraq's Governing Council - of which the KDP is a part - is currently setting up a court to try figures from the fallen regime.
"We do not have a date set," he said, adding that he hoped the system would be up and running within the year.
"We feel happy that people like Chemical Ali should be tried in an Iraqi court and by the Iraqi people themselves," he said. '
#13
Correctomundo Lu Baihu .... Ali headed regulars and Baathist Militia types in the South during the war. But he also may have taken command after Qusai went for the eternal dirt bath...but that's just pure guessin' on my part. It does appear they caught hiim shopping for 'splosives. The two militias never really seemed to coordinate amongst themselves, though. The Fedayin fought and the Baathists ran.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/21/2003 14:43 Comments ||
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#14
Scott Ott at Scrappleface notes that he should be called Conventional Ali, since everyone knows Saddam didn't have any WMD's (/sarcasm off)
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 15:54 Comments ||
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Sen. John McCain said Wednesday the United States should spend "whatever it takes" to complete its mission in Iraq after a bomb ripped through U.N. headquarters in Baghdad, killing at least 20 people including the top U.N. envoy. McCain, R-Ariz., is leading a seven-member delegation of U.S. lawmakers to Iraq for meetings with soldiers, military officers and civilian administrators. The group - on the second day of a three-day visit - had just toured a mass grave site near Hilla, 34 miles south of Baghdad. "After an event like this (the U.N. bombing) we have to evaluate whether we have enough people, whether we have the right kind of people and whether we are spending enough money, and I think itâs appropriate to make that evaluation," McCain told reporters at Baghdad International Airport. Sounds like good congressional oversight here.
Wearing a floppy canvas hat and mopping sweat from his brow in 120 degree heat, McCain said he looked forward to a congressional hearing in September that would review the "size of the United Statesâ commitment, the expenses" and the number of forces positioned in Iraq. "Itâs going to be interesting when we sit down and see how much money is being spent," said McCain, who supported the U.S.-led war that ousted Saddam Hussein. L. Paul Bremer, the U.S. civil administrator in Iraq, has said he hoped that most of the money for Iraqâs reconstruction would come from its oil exports. But the lucrative oil pipeline has been the routine target of saboteurs, and oil exports are not flowing as they should. As a result, Bremer said he was preparing a list of projects together with their price tags to present to an international donors conference in Spain in October. Ugh, I donât like the hat-in-hand image.
One delegate, Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, said the United States needed to stand firm in the face of insurgents and attackers such as those who exploded a truck bomb outside the U.N. compound on Tuesday. Over 100 people were injured and many were still missing Wednesday. "I think they will go to any means to stop the process of peace and prosperity in Iraq, which means our commitment must be even more firm and more resolute," Hutchison said. McCain and the other lawmakers were to visit the southern city of Basra on Thursday before leaving for Pakistan, Afghanistan, Cyprus and Turkey, said Rep. Jim Kolbe, R-Ariz. Before Iraq, the delegation was in Israel.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2003 1:02:00 AM ||
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#1
Ah. A rational man speaks. Indeed, the sky is not falling and we need only do a mid-course compass correction - something we should do frequently, anyway. Take stock, reassess needs and priorities, ignore the press and their incessant demands for information that can't be known in advance by mere mortals - and for scapegoats for everything that does or doesn't happen, and get on with the job. It's essential to complete it - and to get it right. Issue ear-protection to everyone involved so they can concentrate in spite of the endless Hue & Cryâ¢.
(http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-hue1.htm)
#2
problem is not more troopd problem is there r no more troops available to be sent there...despite having a 1.5 million man Army ..when broken down there just arent any men left
#5
DOD's position is that whatever additional security is provided must come from Iraqis.
Certainly from a cost standpoint this is pretty persuasive. A 100-man unit of Iraqis costs much less to operate than bringing another 100 man unit over to Iraq.
Steve's point is also well taken. While we have a large standing army and lots of reserves, many units are not qualified to do the Iraq work. And while it is not PC to say it, of the large number of females in the army, very, very few would be useful in Iraq (actually, most would be worse than useless).
#6
I am forced to listen to NPR and yesterday they featured one of their reporters reporting that Iraqis hate the US, want them to leave and are taking steps to make that happen?
WTF?!?!
Why hasn't the CIA talked to this f*cker and made him tell where the opposition is? Why does an American reporter get away with anti-US reporting and the CIA does NOTHING about it? It seems to me that this reporter knows something and he needs to talk to the nation which gave him the freedom to shoot his mouth off, or get the f*ck out of Iraq.
Intel is our biggest problem, apparently, but an element of that is to wreck our home grown commies' need to wreck what we are trying to do in Iraq.
I think NPR and BBC need to be monitored closely and whenever a statement such as knowledge of terrorist attacks being planned (or indicated) is broadcast, the reporter need to have that information available to the good guys first, not the NPR's and BBC's traitorous allies. Preferably voluntarily.
#7
I can't figure out why anyone wouldn't expect we'd be facing precisely what we're facing in Iraq - and will be for many more months to come - 2-5 years, I've read. Sounds about right to me. It takes time to do what we're doing. Always has and always will - the examples of the efforts of the US and others is easily located. And 6 months is all that has elapsed since the first cruise missiles flew. Add to it the facts about Arabs in general and the Iraqis in particular - they haven't known anything akin to civilized society for a very long time.
Deep breaths should be issued to the breathless BBC, NPR, CNN, et al hacks and anyone else who seems not to get it. Then throw them all out, if that will help. This is our effort, our little test-tube baby. The average Iraqi wants the same things we want: home, family, safety, peace, a future. Many will like what they see as we progress. Keep the bad elements (UN, NGOs, Press, CAIR/ISM/ANSWER tools, etc) out, if needed. Foster the honeypot / flypaper game and kill asshats by the busload, and funnel it to a killing ground of your choosing, if that's needed.
This isn't magic, it's good sense and hard work:
Let the military make the best plan they can from the best available intel, let them handle the details and issue the kit and manpower and skills lists - they know what they're doing. Let them execute it. Let them update it as often as needed. Persevere. Don't second guess. Keep the press of their backs - using whatever means you need. Ignore the ankle-biters and the press-release junkies. Their sky falls everyday. The real one remains in place - as it always has and always will.
There's a saying used in my business:
Good. Fast. Cheap. Pick two.
#9
dcreeper - Only when someone's being pretentious - software development. All sorts of oil & gas stuff to web apps - 30 yrs so far. There are some Real engrs around, like Frank G. I won't pretend to be in his class!
whenever i hear complaints about Iraqi women being body searched by male american soldiers, I wonder where are all the females? Of course I suppose if their not in a combat unit they cant be used for that - and it may not be logistically feasible to attach one female GI to each combat unit just for body searching females.
Does make you wonder if standard combat units are the best for these kinds of search missions though - would a dedicated, linguistically and culturally trained (and coed) peace-keeping corp do a better job?
#11
.com: Ignore the ankle-biters and the press-release junkies. Their sky falls everyday. The real one remains in place - as it always has and always will.
#12
Regardless of how things are going in Iraq, we do have a major problem in the Department of Defense. It boils down to simply too many commitments for the manpower and resources available. The only solution is to cut commitments, or increase the size of the military. A compromise, consisting of dropping a few commitments where it's possible to do that, and at the same time beefing up both the standing military (army, navy, air force, marines) and the reserve/guard force, would be the best solution. All of it will take time, money, and manpower. Right now, we're a bit short of all three.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2003 12:44 Comments ||
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#13
Rumsfeld is right - a good portion of our tropprs are mowing the grass and standing gate guard duty CONUS. Hire Pinkerton to guard the gate and free up soldiers.
Also offer anyone in Levanworth a one year for 3 off their sentence to direct traffic in downtown Bagdad.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/21/2003 12:48 Comments ||
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#14
. com: both Alaska Paul and I are licensed Civils - his is more water resources oriented (he knows his sh*t IMHO); I'm more structural - bridges and buildings are my thing
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 22:11 Comments ||
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#15
byw - AP's off on a trip or I'm sure he'd comment as well, thanks
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 22:13 Comments ||
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#16
byw? yeow! how about btw....nite all!
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 23:18 Comments ||
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A radical Islamic cleric accused of heading an al-Qaida-linked terror network in Asia wept in court Thursday as he accused the Indonesian government of framing him on charges of treason and plotting to assassinate its president. "Nope. Nope. Wudnât me."
With tears in his eyes, Abu Bakar Bashir denied any wrongdoing and said authorities in neighboring Singapore and Malaysia had tortured witnesses to testify against him. "Look, Iâm cryinâ here."
Indonesian prosecutors say that under his leadership Jemaah Islamiyah plotted to kill President Megawati Sukarnoputri with the wider aim of establishing an Islamic state in Indonesia. ``I never had any intention to kill Megawati,ââ Bashir said. ``This is just slander.ââ "Iâm just a humble holy man, and besides, she was standing in the way of my Caliphate...er, I mean, lies, all lies!"
A defense lawyer asked the court Thursday to call Riduan Isamuddin to testify in Bashirâs trial. Isamuddin, also known as Hambali, is believed to have masterminded the Bali and Marriott bombings. ``Hambaliâs testimony is compulsory, because his name was mentioned in the indictment,ââ said Muhammad Assegaf. ``His testimony is very important.ââ Hambali was captured in a raid by the CIA and Thai police on an apartment where he was hiding in a town just outside Bangkok. U.S. authorities are interrogating him in an undisclosed location. Hambaliâs giving testimony...ummm...somewhere else right now. Then heâs scheduled to be deposed by the Indon JAG office. Take a number and have a seat...
#1
Hambali huh? Pretty bad when you have to get a mass-murderer to give you a character reference
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 15:06 Comments ||
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#2
Bashir's a classic terrorist coward. What a pathetic excuse for a human - in every regard. And he's only facing 15 years - for treason - a good reason to be wary of letting the Indos prosecute HamBall. I'll bet big bucks that Bashir shit himself when he found out that HamBall had been taken - and not by some friendly asshats, like the Malaysians. ;-> Gutless shithead.
EFL
Indonesiaâs plans to use nuclear power to meet its spiralling energy demands have been boosted by the Russian Governmentâs approval of a draft agreement allowing it to build nuclear power plants in Indonesia. Russian news agency Interfax on Tuesday night announced the draft agreement between the Russian and Indonesian governments covering "co-operation in the peaceful usage of nuclear energy". Gee, this sounds familiar.
"The document states that Russia and Indonesia will work together on developing, designing, constructing and operating research reactors and nuclear power plants, including low-capacity nuclear power plants, and pertinent research associated with them," the Interfax statement said. Now where have I heard this before?
Although it is the worldâs biggest natural gas producer, Indonesia has long expressed a desire to build nuclear power plants to meet a power shortage that the World Bank says poses serious threats to the country. Letâs see, plenty of natural gas, power shortage, wants nuclear power plant, islamic majority, wait, itâll come to me.....
However, there is considerable opposition to nuclear power, especially in the likely location of Java, which is dotted with active volcanoes and is the worldâs most densely populated island. There were major protests in the mid-1990s when former technology minister Habibie proposed a nuclear power plant on the slopes of an active volcano. Now thereâs a really good idea, for a disaster movie that youâd watch and laugh at because nobodyâs that stupid.
Indonesia is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the Interfax statement stressed it would not have the right to use the nuclear materials and technologies it receives for creating nuclear explosive devices. And nobody would violate the treaty, right?
The agreement with Russia is for 10 years, with an extension for a further five years, and it is considered unlikely that any project will be started before 2010. Russia is keen to sell its nuclear technology and is building power plants in Iran, India and China. Thatâs who it was, Iran! Well, we donât have anything to worry about in Indonesia, I mean itâs not like they have a problem with terrorists or anything.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 11:28:51 AM ||
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I've been worried about the Indonesians getting their hands on nukes from their faternal/religous brothern in Pakland for quite some time. If I was the Ausies I'd get very freakingh nervous about this. Ditto for the Kiwis too. But they've got their heads so far in the sand they won't see it coming till it's too late. Anybody want to bet that the North Koreans have been talking to Jakarta too?
Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire ||
08/21/2003 18:53 Comments ||
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The Southeast Asian Jemaah Islamiah militant Muslim group has at least 300 fighters trained in the Philippines and Afghanistan, a senior Indonesian policeman said Thursday. "According to our count it would be 300, but it could be more than that," Erwin Mappaseng, head of the police criminal investigation department, told a news conference when asked about the Jemaah Islamiahâs strength. 300 seems low.
The 300 had been trained in Afghanistan and the southern Philippines, Mappaseng said. Muslim guerrillas have been battling government forces in the south of the mostly Christian Philippines for decades. "Theyâre competent in war tactics including the use of bombs and explosives," he said. Putting bombs on buses doesnât make you competent in war tactics, it makes you a terrorist.
Mappaseng did not say where the 300 Jemaah Islamiah were believed to be from, nor where they were thought to be based now. No way they are all in one location, we couldnât get that lucky.
"This force has a core special squad. When they conduct a bombing, they may receive orders from Hambali. We donât know how big this core is but indeed itâs less than the 300-strong force." The real hard core well-trained personnel most likely number a few dozen.
Indonesia wants to question Hambali who authorities have accused of involvement in a series of bombings in recent years, including the blasts that killed 202 people in the tourist island of Bali in October. You can talk to him after we suck his brains dry.
... but bring your own pliers, dammit!
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 9:57:49 AM ||
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#3
snellenr - I get it, bro. ;-) How many days have they had HamBall, now? Take about 18-24 hrs to get him to Gitmo (Ooooohhh! Gitmo!â¢) and I'll bet that was the last shut-eye he's had since the grab. And that brings to mind the "He's no fun, he fell right over!" bit. Seems like everything I read here brings to mind some FT bit - I'm terminally infected! And happily so, Grid willing!
A key suspect in last yearâs Bali terror bombings told an Indonesian court Thursday that the deadly nightclub attack had been initially scheduled to coincide with the first anniversary of Sept 11, 2001 attacks in the United States. When a panel of judges trying the case asked why the date was changed to Oct 12, he replied: "Thatâs when the bombs were ready." He said fellow suspect Imam Samudra, who will hear a verdict on September 10, made the suggestion during a meeting at Solo in Central Java in August 2002. The meeting was also attended by several other suspects, including another of Imronâs brothers Amrozi who has been sentenced to death, Mukhlas, Abdul Ghoni, Zulkarnaen, Idris and Dulmatin.
"Because Dulmatin and Idris were the ones knowing the situation (in Bali), it was decided to be done on a Saturday evening," Imron said. He said Dulmatin was the one who proposed Bali as a target since there were many white people there.
Imron, who wore a Western shirt unlike other suspects who prefer a Muslim cap and tunic, said Samudra assigned tasks. He said Dulmatin was tasked with assembling the bomb, Ghoni with mixing the explosive ingredients, Idris with taking care of accommodation and Amrozi with buying a van and chemicals to make one of the bombs.
Ali Imron, testifying in his own trial, said he doubted whether the Jemaah Islamiah (JI) regional terror group ordered the bombing of two nightclubs which killed 202 people on the Indonesian resort island last October 12. "As to whether it was a mission of the JI, I do not know. According to me it was not a mission of the JI because the majority of the JI do not like violence," he said. "According to me, it could only be the work of Hambali and Mukhlas." The international crisis group claimed that there had been a split in the JI ranks, with the younger members angry at their emir, Abu Bakr Bashir, because he was not radical enough. Iâm not sure if it is true or just an attempt by his followers to shield him, but the ICCâs very detailed look at JI is definitely worth reading.
Hambali was arrested in Thailand last week and is in US custody at a secret location. Mukhlas, alias Ali Ghufron, is an elder brother of Imron and is being tried separately for the Bali blast.
Imron, the only suspect to express remorse for Western victims, said that "this incident has destroyed me. Why did I, an ustadz (religious teacher), do things like that? How could I just obey and not think?" he said, adding that he usually obeyed Mukhlas as a respected elder brother and his superior in JI. Imron profusely apologised to the victims, to their families and "all those who were victimized by the Bali bombs. My actions not only victimised Islam but also made non-Muslims confused about Islam," he said. "I say this frankly, my action was a mistake and no one should follow in my footsteps."
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/21/2003 3:57:36 AM ||
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The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) said this week that China will be the greatest espionage threat to North America during the next 10 years to 15 years, reports Canadaâs Asian Pacific Post. FBI Director Robert Mueller told the United States Congress that China has more than 3,000 "front" companies in America coordinating direct espionage efforts. Some of the thousands of Chinese visitors, students and business people who visit the United States each year also have a government intelligence task to perform, authorities say. "Left unchecked, such a situation could greatly undermine U.S. national security and U.S. military and economic advantage [in the Pacific region]," Mueller told Congress.
In Canada, intelligence reports indicate the number of Chinese front companies to be between 300 and 500. But unlike America, Canadaâs China experts say the political climate in Ottawa is not conducive to cracking down on the threat. "Virtually all the recent prime ministers and Paul Martin - who is likely to be the next prime minister - have strong connections to China on personal, business and political fronts," said an intelligence analyst specializing in East Asian affairs. "They find it difficult to understand this threat... some just deny it," he said. For former Canadian Foreign Service officer Brian McAdam, this weekâs FBI warning reads like a passage out of a report he produced for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS). McAdam worked on "Project Sidewinder" which was conducted by the CSIS and aided by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police between 1994 and 1996. That study mirrors this weekâs FBI assertions that China poses the most significant threat to North America.
I've color-coded Futures entries as red-yellow-green. To avoid having to view wearing sunglasses, I turned them into pastels, so they're pink-light yellow-light green, with the "reds" representing Probables and the "greens" the Unlikelies. That's not quite as confusing as the Homeland Security approach...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/21/2003 21:57 ||
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Herbert Murerwa, Zimbabweâs Finance Minister, announced in Harare today that President Robert Mugabeâs cash trapped government has decided to increase the salaries of cabinet ministers, MPs and judges. "Itâs inflation, how are we suppose to maintain our lifestyles unless we get a pay increase?"
Murerwa did not say when exactly this would come into effect and by how much. He was addressing Parliament this afternoon during his presentation of the governmentâs R5.4 billion supplementary budget. Murerwa announced also that next month Zimbabwe will print a new one thousand-dollar note as its highest denomination, in attempt to deal with the countryâs worsening cash crisis. Currently, Zimbabwe has a five hundred-dollar note as its highest denomination. Thatâll help, Herb, thanks. Oh, and yes I do know that Zimbabwe is in East Africa and Liberia and Nigeria are in West Africa, regardless of where I posted the stories here. The, ah, worm did it.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 3:16:15 PM ||
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Inflation? That's easy to solve. Just print more money! Maybe they can invest it all in North Korean Government bonds! Bob, you friggin' genius!
Nigeria Coalition on International Criminal Court (NCICC) has given the Federal Government 14 days within which to either extradite former Liberian President Charles Taylor to the Special Court in Sierra Leone, or start a legal action against him. Enjoying your retirement, Chuck?
The group said failure on the part of government to heed the directive would leave the coalition with no option but to launch a national and global campaign to bring Taylor to Justice. Addressing newsmen in Lagos yesterday, the secretary of the coalition, Mr. Ameen Ayodele, said the coalition would at the expiration of the 14-day ultimatum " embark on joint programme of popular mobilisation, rallies and processions begining from Calabar to make Nigeria hot and unsafe for Taylor". Sounds like fun.
The group said it noted the indictment of Taylor by the United Nations Special Court in Sierra Leone and warrant of arrest issued to that effect, even as it was mindful of the questionable role of the United States in the whole saga, which it described as a double standard, considering that the Chief prosecutor to the court was an American. Ayodele regretted that the United States had continued to undermine the International Criminal Court (ICC), an institution charged with the role of entrenching international justice. The group acknowledged that the US was presently seeking Bilateral Immunity Agreement (BIA) from countries to immune its own citizens from the jurisdiction of the international court. Is Chuck a U.S. citizen? No? So shut up about the ICC already.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 2:48:10 PM ||
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"FG Gets 14-Day Ultimatum to Extradite Taylor"?
But....but....I don't know nothing about Chuck Taylor...except I had a pair of Converse Chuck Taylors when I was a kid
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 15:04 Comments ||
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#2
Quit stalling, FG. Are you going to extradite him or not?
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 15:07 Comments ||
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#3
I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I don't like seeing the bastard escape justice, on the other hand other bloody dictators are going to see whats happening (as with Pinochet) and decide its better to fight it out rather than cut a deal that might lead to betrayal.
#4
You knew they'd drag the US into this to carp about how we won't accept the ICC. Nevermind the fact that our pressure helped get Chuckles out of Liberia in the first place so that the nattering nabobs at the NCICC could yammer on.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2003 17:10 Comments ||
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#5
gonna have to extradite him - he's getting into my daughters' lingerie drawer
FG
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 17:35 Comments ||
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#6
Been thinking a lot about Chuck. Ya know, locking him up is too good for him. Three squares, a bunk, and running water? Naaahh! What Chuck needs is something that'll get his attention.
Amputate both his hands.
Then...
Drop him in the middle of the densest jungle you can find. With a cell phone.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2003 20:25 Comments ||
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Police tightened security at the world university games in South Korea on Thursday after a tip-off that Islamic radicals could launch a chemical weapons attack on the venues. Iâve never heard of these games before.
More than 7,000 athletes and officials from more than 170 countries are set to participate in the event, including 137 athletes from the United States and 99 from Britain. Sounds like the kind of target theyâd go for.
Police had heightened surveillance and stepped up checks on vehicles around venues in Taegu city in response to the alert, the South Korean Environment Ministry said in a news release. "We received a tip from a governmental agency that the Universiade games is a possible target for an Islamic terrorist attack. All our security is on high alert," an official from the National Intelligence Service told Reuters. Theyâve had plenty of practice.
The Environment Ministry said an anti-terrorist squad, including a special chemical-weapons team, would be in place to respond to any attack during the games but that the extra measures were just precautionary. "Security was a crucial issue at the 2002 (soccer) World Cup, as at any international event," Choo Jon-ho, chief of the university games security division, said. "But these days we have to pay closer attention to chemical terror threats like with anthrax." I donât think there is a big islamic community in South Korea for terrorists to hide in, they have to enter as tourists or business men. Thereâs no easy border to sneak across.
A no-fly zone was set up around Taegu World Cup Stadium for Thursdayâs opening ceremony, while air traffic has been restricted to regular commercial flights over venues until the games end on August 31. "We do not want the crowds to get scared by aircraft," a South Korean air force official told Reuters. "We have military posts established around the venues with hand-held missiles in the case that the venues are attacked (by aircraft)." And the S.K. Army will shoot first and ask questions later.
A defence ministry spokesman said the September 11 attacks in the United States in 2001 were a factor in limiting air traffic. "Of course, those kinds of things affect our plans. We have a special plan for the university games," he said, declining to give details. "I can say no more."
On the ground, police have restricted the access of vehicles carrying dangerous materials within five kilometres (three miles) of the venues. Security has also been heightened around the North Korean teamâs accommodation. Nobody gets in or out, mostly out.
A 31-year-old man was detained this week after police found weapons in the back of his car as he tried to park at the official games hotel in Taegu. Probability of sucessful attack here, by outside islamic terrorists at any rate, is low. This is not a soft target.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 2:28:56 PM ||
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I don't know about the rest of Korea, but there is a mosque and a bunch of Pakistanis in the I'taewon "entertainment" district in Seoul just up the street from Yonsan (USFK HQ)
PC sensitivity to illegals smashed by common sense? (cue Montgomery Burns voice) Excellent!
An order by the chief Border Patrol agent in San Diego for his agents not to arrest illegal immigrants on city streets or question them except along the border has been overturned by Robert C. Bonner, commissioner of the new Bureau of Customs and Border Protection. Chief William T. Veal was told Friday to recall the Aug. 8 memo, which he issued after protests from the Mexican Consulate over the Aug. 2 arrests in San Diego of illegal aliens seeking to obtain Mexican identification cards.
The initial order directed Chief Vealâs 1,600 agents to make arrests only along the U.S.-Mexico border or at highway checkpoints, according to Bureau of Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officials. The order, the officials said, was overturned after a closed-door meeting at CBP headquarters attended by Mr. Bonner and Border Patrol Chief Gus de la Vina, whose agency has been moved to the new bureau from the Immigration and Naturalization Service. CBP officials said Mr. Bonner, who has given the Border Patrol a front-line role in the nationâs war against terrorists, weapons of mass destruction, illegal aliens and illicit narcotics, ruled that the order was "overly broad and restrictive" and should be rescinded. Mr. Bonner also directed the Border Patrol to review its policies nationwide to determine whether agents are enforcing immigration laws in areas outside the immediate border. "Under the leadership of Commissioner Bonner, Border Patrol agents now, more than ever, will be able to do their job more effectively in preventing the entry of terrorists, their weapons, and weapons of mass destruction from entering the United States between the ports of entry," Border Patrol spokesman Mario Villarreal said. "The Border Patrol is committed to protecting our borders while reassuring the general public we are dedicated to enforcing the immigration laws of the United States."
Border Patrol agents in San Diego had questioned whether it was a lawful command and whether they should abide by it â particularly in view of the fact that many Border Patrol supervisors were instructing the line agents to disregard the policy. "We were very happy to hear that the order had been rescinded," said agent Shawn Moran, spokesman for National Border Patrol Council Local 1613 in San Diego. "We hope itâs a harbinger of things to come, that the Border Patrol â under Customs and Border Protection â is now going to focus on law enforcement."
Agent Joseph N. Dassaro, president of the National Border Patrol Council Local 1613 had issued a statement last week saying that while agents were "disgusted" by the order, the agency maintained the right to determine the Border Patrolâs mission. He advised the agents at the time to "fully comply with the policy, regardless of personal or professional opinion." "We are all disgusted at the recent turn of events concerning the Mexican Consulate, subsequent related events, and the issuance of this recent policy memorandum," the Dassaro statement said. "The situation in totality represents the systemic abrogation of our responsibilities to foreign governments and interests. As federal officers, we should all be disgusted; however, we should not be surprised."
Chief Veal, whose San Diego sector includes more than 7,000 square miles along 66 miles of international boundary with Mexico, said in his memo that the future of Border Patrol operations was dependent on the elimination of the perception that agents were conducting neighborhood sweeps. It also described the agentsâ main priority as the "maximum containment" of illegal immigration at the border and preventing terrorists from entering the country. It said the enforcement of immigration laws away from the border was now the responsibility of the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Chief Vealâs memo followed the Aug. 2 arrest by Border Patrol agents of five members of a Mexican family outside the Mexican Consulate near downtown San Diego, all of whom were returned to Mexico. The five were en route to the consulate to apply for matricula consular cards, an identification card issued by the Mexican government to its citizens living in this country. Deputy Consul General Javier Diaz met with Chief Veal to protest the arrests, while Mexican Consul General Rodulfo Figueroa issued a statement saying he was astonished by the arrests because of their proximity to his office.
There has been widespread concern about the use of matricula cards, which the FBI has described as an unreliable form of identification. FBI officials recently told a Senate committee the cards posed a criminal and terrorist threat, and were easy to obtain through fraud and a lack of adequate security measures by the Mexican government. Some 1.2 million digitally coded matricula cards, which cost $29, have been issued by Mexican consulates in the United States and are accepted by hundreds of localities, local agencies and banks across the nation. Guatemala is planning to issue similar cards to its nationals in the United States, while Brazil, Poland, Nicaragua and Haiti have shown interest in such cards. The Mexican government lobbied the U.S. banking industry to accept the cards, hoping to cash in on some of the $11 billion believed by federal authorities to be sent home each year by Mexican nationals in this country unable to open bank accounts because of a lack of proper identification. However, no major bank in Mexico lists the matricula card among the official documents they accept to open an account. Federal authorities believe the cards are useful only for illegal aliens, since legal immigrants have usable, U.S. government-issued documents. Mexico needs to be reminded where the border lies and where their sovereignty ends
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 2:22:22 PM ||
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The memo ..... said the enforcement of immigration laws away from the border was now the responsibility of the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
snicker...wonder if Veal was unhappy with the new organizational chart and issued the original memo in a childish act of protest. Regardless, his bending to PC pressure landed him up in the frying pan. Chicken?? or Veal??
#3
The "matricula" is wastepaper as far as valid ID goes. The cops oughta tear the damn things up when handed one. It's almost a guarantee of an illegal.
#4
hmm...too bad they aren't really valid ID's in the first place. If they were, they'd be mighty handy in tracking illegals if we ever got serious about doing so. Of course, if I were betting futures on that...I'd only bet 25% (that we will get serious) ..unless we have another major terrorist attack..or if Arrrrnold wins and decides to upset the status quo with some common sense.
#5
Not knowing whether you are going to be picked up and deported must be very stressful for illegal immagrants. If we clarify to all illegals, the exact conditions under which they can be seized, there will be fewer illegals succumbing to stress related health care issues. If we eliminate the uncertainty for these people, uncovered healthcare costs should drop in states bordering Mexico. We all win that way.
At the very least Immigration Enforcement Officers should have a bag limit, so large groups of illegals can be sure that by congregating together they stand less of a chance of being deported. That way the criminal element of the illegals will generally only prey on other illegals. Because illegals will probably be too wary to report the assualts ect. Crime statistics will drop and there will be fewer folks in jail.
Do you think the ACLU will see it my way?
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/21/2003 18:31 Comments ||
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At the very least Immigration Enforcement Officers should have a bag limit.
I'm all for it! Each Immigration Enforcement Officer should have a daily minimum bag limit of at least two, and a maximum possession limit of no more than 2000, Illegal Immigrants, regardless of country. Any illegal caught with a matricula consular counts twice toward possession limits. All that are caught should be fingerprinted, have mugshots taken, record all vital information, and taken back to the capital of their home country, and released. Anyone caught the second time will be required to police the border area, picking up any loose paper, plastic bottles, clothing, and other assorted trash for 90 days before being released in their national capital - along with all the garbage they've picked up. Get picked up a third time, and lose your kneecaps.
How long do you think it will take before we a) have a clean border, and b) have fewer illegals?
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2003 21:12 Comments ||
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Hamas has called on Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas to resign his office and leave Palestinian territory. Senior Hamas official Ismail Haniya made the call Thursday afternoon.
"Get out of town if you know what's good for you, Mahmoud!" I think we saw this one coming...
Hamas officialy declared Thursday that it was pulling out of the Hudna (cease-fire) on attacks against Israel in response to the targeted killing of top Hamas official Ismail Abu Shanab in Gaza City earlier in the day. Islamic Jihad released a statement in Gaza saying that it too is declaring an end to the cease-fire on attacks against Israelis. Both of whom had perpetrated (Hamas) or attempted (IJ) bombings of civilians under the "ceasefire". F*&k em and kill em
Hamas founder and its spiritual leader, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, said his group would take revenge. "This crosses all red lines," Yassin said of the missile strike. Addressing the Israelis, he said: "You will pay the price for these crimes." all red lines? oh yeah..heâs a blind cleric, dosnât know how many there are...
Abu Shanab and at least two other Palestinains were killed Thursday afternoon when Israel Air Force Apache helicopters fired five missiles at a car in a crowded Gaza City neighborhood. The other two Palestinians killed were reported to have been Shanabâs bodyguards. No civilian deaths = better targetting. Nice shooting Avram!
Israel officials said Shanab was directly involved in planning the suicide bombing attack on the No. 2 bus in Jerusalem on Tuesday, and was also active in strengthening Hamasâ military infrastructure. Abu Shanab had been imprisoned in Israel for a period of 10 years as a result of his activities, and had admitted to being involved in planning and carrying out the kidnapping and murder of Israeli soldier Ilan Saadon. Abu Shanab, in his position as one of the Hamas leaders, was responsible for policy decisions and directing and approving military operations. good target
"Thereâs no question that there is a direct link between the heads of Hamas and the terrorists on the ground," said Israeli Foreign Ministry official Gideon Meir, though he would not say explicitly that Israel killed Abu Shanab. Hamas formally called off a three-month unilateral cease-fire it declared June 29. "We consider ourselves no longer bound by this cease-fire," said a Hamas leader, Ismail Hanieh, after identifying Abu Shanabâs decapitated body at a Gaza City morgue. "that looks like his arm, but that foot, no...oh yeah I recognize that part!"
Another Hamas official, Abdel Aziz Rantissi, himself a target of a failed Israeli missile strike in June, said Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon will pay a high price for the killing of Abu Shanab. "If Sharon thinks the Hamas political leadership fears assassination, he is mistaken," he said. then quit hiding...pussy
Hamas had carried out two suicide bombings under the umbrella of the cease-fire, including the Jerusalem bus attack that killed 20 people on Tuesday. Palestinian prime minister said that the killing of Hamas leader undermines planned crackdown on militants. theyâre always "planned" arenât they?
Hamas representative in Lebanon, Osama Ramadan, said that his organization would avenge the killing of Abu Shanab, one of its top five leaders. Dire Revenge (ver 8.7)⢠Will be ours!
"The assassination proves that Israel has never been interested in peace and that Israel has never taken the road map seriously," Ramadan said. then his lips fell off
Ramadan called on Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas to cut off all contacts with Israel. "Abbasâs mission is to protect the Palestinians and not the Israelis," he added. Abu Shanabâs gold-colored station wagon was driving in the Rimal neighborhood near the United Nations headquarters in Gaza City and had slowed down to avoid a large stone in the road when a first missile struck the front of the vehicle. heh heh
The missile strike came two days after a Hamas suicide bomber blew himself up on a Jerusalem bus, killing 20 people, including five Americans. One of five top officials of the group, Abu Shanab is known as a moderate within Hamas ranks. The moderate tenor of his statements has often conflicted with the inciting rhetoric of more militant leaders, like the groupâs No. 2, Abdel Aziz Rantissi. Palestinian officials condemned the strike calling it "irresponsible on the side of Israel which will complicate matters." "by killing our killers"
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 10:21:47 AM ||
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"Hamas has called on Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas to resign his office and leave Palestinian territory. Senior Hamas official Ismail Haniya made the call Thursday afternoon. "
Im not sure this statement alone justifies the headline - could just be words. Much as i look forward to the PA hitting the mattresses against Hamas, I'll believe it when I see it.
#2
They're doing scenes from "High Noon" -- Abbas 'seems' to have said "This West Bank isn't big enough for the two of us" to Hamas/IJ, and they've responded "you're right".
It remains to be seen whether Abbas is playing the Gary Cooper part, or the Grace Kelly one...
#4
Interesting to note that the Palestinians ADMIT that IDF strikes are against their leadership, and vows revenge AGAINST Civilians. Meanwhile, even Reuthers grudgingly admit that the IDF attacks in response to attacks against Civilians.
If people were REALLY worried about collateral damage of palestinian civilians by IDF attacks on legitimate military targets, then send 300 JDAM packages to Israel to ensure they shoot straighter...
#5
Don't insult the late Princess of Monaco like that! As I recall, she gave up her Quaker ways in the movie and kicked Aztec...
Posted by: Ernest Brown ||
08/21/2003 12:01 Comments ||
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They should put snipers in Gaza and the West Bank and shoot anyone in black overalls and a head band.......they should start with Arafat though..he is calling the shots.
Word on the street is that the Palestinians are essentially prisoners of these terrorist groups. The Infadata has completely destroyed the economy of the Palestinian areas. Most of the skilled workers and professionals have left to find work. Most of what that is left are blue collar types and street punks (sorta like South LA with turbans and Burkas)mostly uneducated, and unemployed.
My only criticism of the IDF on this episode is that they shoulda gone the Mossad route and done a nice little assassination with a sniper or a prostitute. Then they could have tried to make it look like a IJ job or a Hamas power struggle..and got them working on each other.
The whole thing is not about Palestine, it is about power and money and status. The terrorists are a business run by sociopaths.
#7
Mossad should start spreading disinformation that Hamas is going to target both Arafat and Abbas. See if that really jump-starts the civil war.
The US should sell Israel some globalhawks, they can circle around looking for targets of opportunity. It would be nice to pop the spiritual head of Hamas during a televised rally.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 12:27 Comments ||
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Paging George Sherman, paging General George Sherman. We need another "march to the sea". Only this time, it's from the center of Israel to the Red Sea - south of Shaarm al Shaik.
Truthfully, this should be the last straw. There should be no more consideration, no concessions. The Israelis should say, "enough", and start herding paleos outside their borders, put up an even BIGGER wall, top it with all kinds of nasties, and build a bunker about every 1000 feet, capable of decimating a tank division at 4000 meters. There can never be a peace when one side refuses to acknowledge the other side's right to exist. Time to clean up the olive groves, using Merkavas.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2003 12:58 Comments ||
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er, uhm wasnt it William Tecumseh Sherman? or am i missing the joke?
#11
The problem with the march to the see is the Pals really don't have any crops to burn, and the psych advantage or running rampant behind their front lines is missing when they have no real front lines to begin with.
Sadly enough I agree with the second part of Old Patriots post 100%. The Pals will not stop and the world could not possibly hate the Jews any more if they expelled the Pals than they do now. At least it would be a move towards stopping the killing and eventually everyone forgets (just as the world seems to have forgotten near constant Arab attempts at genocide).
George W. Bush should respond to such a move by setting up refugee camps in Iraq where (a) the US has troops to deal with troublemakers (b) the US can push towards absorbing the refugees into Arab society (c) they will be able to attempt a takeover as they did in Jordan.
#12
well the real problem with the march to the sea is well, i want to say this politely, there arent any Blacks.
Sherman showed that the South could not win a conventional war. It was widely held (see "Why the South Lost", etc) that the North did not have anything like enough troops to suppress a guerilla war on their own. The southern leaders decided to discourage a guerrilla war for independence for several reasons, but one was the virtual certain prospect that it would turn into a race war. Hard to maintain a guerilla war when a third or more of the locals are willing to fight tooth and nail for the occupiers (for a contemporary example see Mosul)
#16
Liberalhawk... George Sherman was a character in a novel I read once - might have been Damon Knight. The guy was comic relief to the extreme. Supposedly a take-off on George Patton and William T. Sherman. The doofus couldn't tie his shoes without causing a war.
Right now, the Paleos need a heavy taste of war. The Islamofascists that make up about 2/3 of the 'Palestinians' will stop at nothing short of utter defeat or the destruction of Israel. As for the "equivalents in the Pal territories", try the very, very few Arabs who would welcome life under the banner of Israel. Right now, they can't even admit to themselves they'd prefer that - not and live past sundown.
The area's a mess, and the problems won't be solved by talking. We've had 55 years of talking and appeasement, which has done nothing but make the matters worse. It's going to take blood, death, and destruction to even "level the playing field" to where honest discussion can take place among the survivors.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2003 21:44 Comments ||
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OP - unfortunately for the innocents I have to agree with you. A lot of Paleos will have to die until this death cult is beaten back by Palestineans who want to live and prosper. Only then can they be granted a sovereign state to do as they will. Israel's not going away, and if the Paleo, Iranian, Soddy, Syrian, Lebanese bastards acting tough want to find out, I'm afraid they will....mushroom clouds over Mecca, Medina, then Qom, Damascus, Bekaa, Riyadh.... The jews should never be underestimated in their will to survive and succeed over the 7th century arabs trying to defeat them. They will not go quietly, nor should they IMHO
Tehran.....
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 22:33 Comments ||
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JPost - reg reqâd
Note that this attack was stopped PRIOR to the IDF decapitation of the Hamas A**hole. So much for a hudna, hmmm? IJ is also declaring an end to the "ceasefire"....Duh
The IDF arrested four members of an Islamic Jihad terror cell from the West Bank town of Jenin on Tuesday, thereby thwarting another terrorist attack on the day a suicide bomber killed 20 people and wounded over 100 in Jerusalem. According to security report released Thursday, the terrorists were on their way to carry out a suicide bombing in Haifa. An IDF unit arrested the bomber, 26-year-old Omar Utman; his driver Ashraf Halil, and Muhammad Thana, who was in a leading car and was meant to clear the way for the car carrying the suicide bomber. During their interrogation by the Shin Bet the terrorists gave up their commander and planner of the strike, Bashar Shuhana. Shuahana was released from an Israeli prison in March this year. He was serving a two-year sentence. The terrorists also led the interrogators to the suicide bomberâs explosives belt, which weighed 10kg. Army sappers detonated t device in a controlled explosion.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 10:01:29 AM ||
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Probably explains why both Hamas & IJ claimed credit for the Tuesday blast. They didn't know which team got caught... SOBs, all of 'em.
Israel killed a senior Hamas political leader in a missile strike Thursday, retaliating for a suicide bombing of a bus in which 20 people died including six children. The Islamic militant group threatened revenge and formally abandoned a truce declared eight weeks ago. Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas warned that the assassination of Hamas leader Ismail Abu Shanab would make it harder to crack down on militant groups. Under pressure from Washington and Israel, the Palestinian leadership had decided on a clampdown just hours before his death. Sure you did.
Abu Shanab was riding with two bodyguards in his gold-colored station wagon Thursday in Gaza City when five missiles fired from an Israeli helicopter hit the vehicle. The car burst into flames and three bodies were pulled from the wreckage. Fifteen bystanders were hurt. Five missiles? Guess they wanted to make sure.
Dozens of Hamas supporters at the scene dunked their fists in blood, raised their hands and vowed revenge, chanting "God is great." Bloody fists, dire revenge, must be the Religion Of Peace(tm).
Israel has routinely targeted members of Hamasâ military wing but rarely gone after the groupâs political leaders. Abu Shanab, a U.S.-educated professor of engineering, was the third member of Hamasâ political wing to be killed in the past two years. Israel says the distinction between political and military leaders is insignificant, because both are involved in planning attacks.
The politicals pick the targets, the militaries pick the boomers and snuffies...
"Thereâs no question that there is a direct link between the heads of Hamas and the terrorists on the ground," said Israeli Foreign Ministry official Gideon Meir, though he would not say explicitly that Israel killed Abu Shanab. "Might have been us, I just canât say".
"Coulda been somebody else flying an armed heli around Gaza. Say! You don't suppose it was them Samoans, do you?"
Hamas formally called off a three-month truce it declared June 29.
Might as well make it official. The "ceasefire" went bye-bye when the bus did.
"We consider ourselves no longer bound by this cease-fire," said a Hamas leader, Ismail Haniyeh, after identifying Abu Shanabâs decapitated body at a Gaza City morgue. "Hold it up to the light so I can see.....OK, thatâs him."
Hamas had carried out two suicide bombings despite the cease-fire, including the Jerusalem bus attack Tuesday that killed 20 people. The group had insisted these were limited retaliations for deadly Israeli raids and not violations of the truce. Then just consider this a limited retaliation for your limited retaliation and not a violation of the non-truce.
This is a significant hit. Shanab's a member of the Hamas politburo. So is Rantissi, who was targeted (and missed, dammit!) just prior to the "ceasefire." Haniyeh's a member, too, I think. And of course Sheikh Yassin would make a nice target. If Israel doesn't decapitate Hamas and IJ, and then continue decapitating every time a new Great Leader™ steps up to the plate, they're not going to beat the Islamists.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 9:17:35 AM ||
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Hamas will start foaming at the mouth, get a few more big dogs popped, then they will hit the mattrasses and go u/g. Keep it up IDF an rid the earth of this scum.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/21/2003 9:41 Comments ||
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Dozens of Hamas supporters at the scene dunked their fists in blood, raised their hands and vowed revenge, chanting "God is great."
SHeesh. Too bad one of the missles wasn't time delayed. The Palestinian's have a PR problem when people like me, who carefully catch spiders and take them outside, couldn't care less when they kill these *&^%$#s. In fact...make that... I'm glad he's dead. Yeah..that's right. The cold hearted irony is that each time they kill one of their leaders we are one death closer to peace.
#5
I can solve this problem. Fire the missiles. The last missile deploys a few time-delayed bomblets. The Paleos will figure this out after the firstsecondtenth time. Then you can have wonderous TV images of Paleos standing around at the fringes after a missile attack frustrated and screaming because they CAN'T dip their fists in blood. I like it.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2003 13:52 Comments ||
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#6
Modify the op orders. Fire one missle, kill goblins in car. Wait for Dire Revenge crowd to gather and start blood ritual (ugh!). Fire remaining missles.
EFL
Israeli militants killed a senior Hamas official and two of his bodyguards Thursday in a strike meant as retaliation for Tuesdayâs deadly Jerusalem bus bombing. The targeted attack brought the already tenuous truce between Israeli and Palestinian groups perilously close to destruction. Two reactions:
1. What truce?
2. If anything should be "perilously close to destruction," it should be Hamas.
An Israeli helicopter fired five missiles at a gold-colored station wagon in a crowded Gaza City neighborhood Thursday, killing Hamas senior official Ismail Abu Shanab and two of his bodyguards, the Islamic militant group said. Hard kill, no collateral damage. Nice work.
A senior Hamas official on Thursday declared the cease-fire previously agreed upon between militant groups dead. I say again, what truce?
"We consider ourselves free from this make-believe cease-fire," said Hamas official Ibrahim Haniyeh. "The assassination of Abu Shanab ... means that I need new underwear the Zionist enemy has assassinated the truce and the Hamas movement holds the Zionist enemy fully responsible for the consequences of its crime," Ismail al-Haniyah told reporters in Gaza. The three-month unilateral cease-fire was declared June 29. Hamas, vowing retaliation for Thursdayâs attack, just two days earlier carried out a homicide bombing in Jerusalem, killing 20 people, but insisted at the time it was still observing the truce. This must be some bold new definition of "observing the truce" that was previously unknown to the civilized world.
Posted by: Mike ||
08/21/2003 9:11:36 AM ||
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Beat me by that much.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 9:18 Comments ||
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I love this shit: "perilously close" - isn't that just precious?
Okay. Enough of that phoolishness: being forced to hold vewy vewy still while the other guys never quit shooting.
Deport Tool-Phoolsâ¢. Revoke credentials of the biased Press outlets. Total Paleo Lockdown. Do The BIG Wallâ¢. Heap ridicule on anyone who says there ever was or ever will be a truce or peace as long as there is a PA, or Hamas, or Hezbollah, or Al Aqsa, et al.
#4
From the Fox story is this jewel: "Who was the [Israeli] fool who took this decision?" a Palestinian source told Fox News. "We [the Palestinians] were at the final stages of preparing a massive operation against these brutes," but the assassination destroyed Palestinian efforts to police themselves, he added.
Yup. We were this close and you went and fucked it up. Uh, huh, Right.
I nominate "We were this close!" for the Paleo group headstone. True enough - Just about 3 years ago, Sept 2000, they had the world eating out of their hands. Then they started the intifada. This time? Nawwww. The only thing that was close was the rocket that missed RantSissy.
Notice that none of the quotes come from him? Betcha he's holed up in his bestest safehouse and damned few people know where that is. C'mon, man, come on out and play, this is what you wanted, come and get some of it.
China is reported to have cancelled a long-planned visit to China by members of the Dalai Lamaâs government-in-exile. The US-based Radio Free Asia reported that China had opposed the visit because some members of the delegation had engaged in what it described as âsplittistâ activities. "Splittist" being Chinese for "ungrateful people who want us out of their country".
Neither the Dalai Lamaâs office nor the Chinese Foreign Ministry have commented on the report. China has ruled Tibet since it occupied the Himalayan region in 1951. Diplospeak for invasion, murder, etc.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 8:58:38 AM ||
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The history, regardless of China's self-serving revisionism and supreme arrogance, speaks for itself.
Gere will have to give an interview or three. He will serve to inform those who can't or don't read of his special version, I'm sure.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 10:03 Comments ||
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China's real message? "Richard Gere! Call off your gerbils!"
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 10:04 Comments ||
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Is this really a suprise to anyone? China can't even get Hong Kong to say it's part of their country, so of course they can't let anyone else in. Hell, even the French could encite uprisings in China.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/21/2003 10:25 Comments ||
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#5
If they "reunite" with Taiwan, they will have another bunch of folks that they find it difficult to control.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/21/2003 12:41 Comments ||
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Frank G - I can't believe you managed to bring in the gerbils thing. (snicker) So, uh, is it time to do an Elmer Fudd routine on the Chinese gerbils?
Government and rebel delegates have selected a businessman, Gyude Bryant, to head Liberiaâs interim post-war administration. His appointment was formally announced on Thursday in Ghana, where peace talks have been taking place for more than two months. "I see myself as a healer," said Mr Bryant after being chosen ahead of two other candidates. Interim President Moses Blah is due to stand down in October in favour of the new administration, which is supposed to organise elections in 2005. "due to stand down" and "supposed to organise elections" are the key phrases here.
Mr Bryant, chairman of the Liberia Action Party, is a leading figure in the Episcopal Church, one of Liberiaâs main religious denominations, and is not seen as a political heavyweight. The BBCâs Jonathan Paye-Layleh in the capital, Monrovia, says that Liberians are surprised by his appointment. His deputy, Wesley Johnson, is an accounting lecturer. When you need to rebuild a shattered economy, you could do worse than appointing a businessman and a accountant.
It sounds like they compromised on the most innocuous fellow they could find with an accounting lec... lect... ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz.... Whuh? Oh. An accounting lecturer to write his speeches...
Under the power-sharing agreement, neither Liberiaâs new leader nor the vice-chairman could come from either of the armed factions. Since he doesnât have his own private army, itâll make it easier to overthrow him when the worldâs attention has shifted to the next crisis.
A contingent of Ghanaian troops is due to leave for Liberia later on Thursday to join some 900 Nigerian peacekeepers already deployed. The Nigerian and Ghanaian soldiers are to be joined by troops from Senegal and Mali later in the week. Eventually the West African force will number more than 3,000 troops. However, there has been fighting in Bong County, 100 kilometres (62 miles) north-east of Monrovia, despite the ceasefire agreement. It is a African ceasefire after all.
Like, wow, man! Like Bong County!
Aid agency Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) warns that the frontline is now just 45km (28 miles) from camps where some 60,000 people have sought refuge. "If the fighting gets closer, we fear a mass displacement of civilians," said MSF head of mission in Liberia Pierre Mendiharat. Why bother, the fighting will just follow you.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 8:52:48 AM ||
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Now all we need to do is send over Jesse Jackson. Then again, he'll just seize power and proclaim himself the ' President of the Lord '.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/21/2003 10:21 Comments ||
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However, there has been fighting in Bong County...
Coon Rapids, MN--A Marine who told Anoka County authorities that he was shot while trying to help a stranded motorist has admitted that he shot himself, a sheriffâs spokesman said Wednesday. Adam D. Welter, 20, of Andover was released Monday night from Mercy Hospital in Coon Rapids, where he was treated for a wound to his left shoulder. Welter reported that he was shot early Monday after he stopped in the 14800 block of Prairie Rd. to help a man whose black, rusted pickup truck was disabled. Investigators searched and found no evidence of a shooting. Iâm betting the powder burns, angle of the wound, etc. clued the sheriff in real quick.
Welter, an Anoka High School graduate, was home on leave and had been scheduled to return to active duty on Monday. He called the Sheriffâs Office on Tuesday afternoon and admitted making up the shooting story, said sheriffâs Capt. Bob Aldrich. "I think he felt bad and wanted to tell the truth," Aldrich said. "He was trying to do the right thing. . . . He was awfully apologetic." Welter was apparently despondent about an impending long-term overseas military assignment, according to investigators. Welter had been in training for about a year to intercept and decode radio messages, and he was to be stationed in Hawaii, said Valerie Welter, his mother. Attempts to contact Welter on Wednesday were unsuccessful. He was despondent about going to ... Hawaii???
The case will be forwarded to the county attorneyâs office where possible charges for giving false information to deputies will be considered, Aldrich said. He would not say where Welter got the gun he used but said it will be returned to its owner. After the county attorney gets done with him, I think the JAG office will be calling.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2003 1:06:39 AM ||
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#1
he probably shot himself to avoid being shot at in the sunni triangle where his ass was obviously
#6
Being a male, he was unable to get pregnant to miss deployment. Drastic measures were required.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/21/2003 9:38 Comments ||
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#7
OK, just reading the story it sounds like this guy is a first termer, just finished tech school, getting shipped away from home, and he didn't want to leave. (I know, most people would be happy to shoot someone in order to get an assignment to Hawaii) You always get a few of these types who just can't adapt to military life. Most likely he'll get a quick discharge.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/21/2003 9:40 Comments ||
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#8
Hawaii's got snow.
Posted by: Pete Stanley ||
08/21/2003 11:32 Comments ||
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#9
Some people have a hard time putting aside 'childish things' and growing up. This young man sounds like one of them. He also may be having a hard time adjusting to the security restraints placed upon him by his job. Life on the "dark side of the Force" isn't an easy walk for anyone. Working with classified information on a daily basis requires 'strong moral character'. I think he's been able to eliminate himself from the job the Marines picked out for him. I don't think he'll much care for where the Marines dump him after this exercise, though - in a rifle platoon, if they don't kick him out altogether.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2003 12:19 Comments ||
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This was unexpected. Heh.
Israeli troops and tanks moved into the West Bank towns of Nablus and Jenin early Thursday, searching for Palestinian militants in the wake of a devastating suicide bombing earlier in the week. Shots rang out in Jenin after some 20 tanks, personnel carriers and other vehicles entered, but there were no immediate reports of casualties in either town. A curfew was imposed in central Nablus after more than 30 vehicles — mostly trucks and a few tanks — entered the town. Troops were carrying out searches for bomb laboratories and wanted Palestinians, an Israeli military source said. No arrests were made in the latest raids, though on Wednesday night six wanted Palestinians were arrested in the area of Jenin, the source said. "Moshe, we ready back there?"
"Yep, Ari, got the giggle juice and the pliers."
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has approved a series of ``pinpointââ military strikes in response to a suicide bombing that killed 20 and injured more than 100 in Jerusalem on Tuesday. On Wednesday night, Israeli troops shot and killed one Palestinian 16-year-old and wounded at least five others in the northern West Bank town of Tulkarem, Palestinian witnesses said. An Israeli military source said the troops came under fire while seeking to arrest wanted Palestinians and fired back. Palestinian witnesses, however, said the teenager was unarmed. The troops later left. And we all know how reliable Paleo witnesses are!
"They wuz just standin' there, mindin' they own bidnid, when these Zionists, they starts shootin' fer no reason!"
In a village just outside Jenin, troops early Thursday also demolished the home of a suicide bomber who blew himself up last month, killing one Israeli woman. The army regularly destroys the homes of suicide bombers in an effort to dissuade others from attacks. Next time put his handler inside the house before you blow it.
The Israeli military maintains security responsibility in Tulkarem, Jenin and Nablus, among other West Bank towns. As part of the current U.S.-backed ``road mapââ peace plan, Israeli soldiers pulled out of parts of the Gaza Strip and Bethlehem in the West Bank in July. The plan requires a gradual Israeli withdrawal to positions held before the outbreak of fighting, and a Palestinian crackdown on militants. I think I know the spin on this one, and it isnât going to be âcause and effect.â
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2003 12:40:07 AM ||
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#1
Just bulldoze the ENTIRE westbank, and shunt every paleo into Jordan, Syria and Saudi.
Then build a big BIG wall.
It is time for a partition... a big wall with not a single Paleo living inside its bounds.
That BIG wall should be there for around 300 years, just until the Paleos evolve into accepting Israel's right to exist. Then maybe it can come down again. Problem solved.
#2
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has approved a series of ``pinpointââ military strikes in response to a suicide bombing that killed 20 and injured more than 100 in Jerusalem on Tuesday.
"Mr. Prime Minister, every damn house in the West Bank and Gaza has some pins in it!"
"Yep, get them all..."
#3
I like it. Easier than taking their children away so they can't be indoctrinated. Obviously, nothing short of utter separation or utter anihilation will work, as the other alternatives have been tried in almost every degree already.
#4
Yes, the 'Dozer Corrie Memorial Wall at Gazaâ¢.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/21/2003 9:26 Comments ||
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#5
AP? Ya want butter with that Pancake?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2003 12:26 Comments ||
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#6
I'd like to point out that one of the classic signs of mental illness it to repeat an action that does not produce the desired result. For example negotiating and declaring cease fires that have no hope of working. Why do it again?
Mentally healthy people dont keep repeating this sort of error. How about the Israelis change tactics? For example every time a terror attack happens, bulldoze a palestinian city. Shoot anyone who resists.
Those who say the europe will retaliate - so what? You want good trade so you let your citizens be killed? What kind of dumb trade is that?
Theyâre butchering English again.
A person to person belt forming rally opposing the U.S. threat of war to the Korean peninsula and demanding a stop to the suppression of the South Korean Federation of University Student Councils (Hanchongryon) was reportedly held in front of the U.S. 8th Army base in Ryongsan, Seoul, on August 16. The rally was a part of the August 15 reunification function. Person to person belt forming rallys? What the hell is that?
Participating there were members of the Reunification Solidarity, the National Peopleâs Solidarity, the All-people Measure Committee for the Death of Schoolgirls and citizens and students, at least 5,000 in all. The All-people Measure Committee for the Death of Schoolgirls? I know theyâre hungry, but,... jeez.
Kwon Yong Gil, representative of the Democratic Workersâ Party, addressing the rally said the Bush administration should make it clear to the international community that it has no intention to mount a preemptive attack on the north and conclude a non-aggression treaty with the north in the name of the U.S. government. He strongly urged the U.S. forces, the regime and the conservative media to stop suppressing Hanchongryon, saying that the studentsâ struggle against the U.S. troopsâ war exercises was righteous. Like, righteous, man. Who wrote this, Linc Hayes from the Mod Squad?
A resolution was read out there. Out there, indeed.
The resolution called for a turnout in a struggle to frustrate the U.S. moves to blockade the north and launch a war as they drive the situation on the peninsula to a higher pitch of strain. Ouch! Sounds painful.
At the end of the rally, the participants tried to enclose the base but failed due to the riot police. ...and a new group was formed, The All-people Measure Committee for the Death of Riot Police.
Posted by: tu3031 ||
08/21/2003 12:21:00 AM ||
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tu3031 - Uh, I think you said it all in your inline comments! Wacka-wacka. Just what I was thinking - right up until the end: The All-people Measure Committee... I don't have anything that comes close! (snicker) Good stuff!
Creative, new, different - ws it from a South Korean source, not KCNA?
Oh Bravo. I think the US should print an excerpt from this article on educational pamphlets right under the headline of "WHY THE US IS LEAVING SOUTH KOREA" that should be dropped en masse on the country.
Just so when the US leaves, South Korea can only blame themselves.
Creative, new, different - ws it from a South Korean source, not KCNA?
Oh Bravo. I think the US should print an excerpt from this article on educational pamphlets right under the headline of "WHY THE US IS LEAVING SOUTH KOREA" that should be dropped en masse on the country.
Just so when the US leaves, South Korea can only blame themselves for what will happen next.
#5
>>Oh Bravo. I think the US should print an excerpt from this article on educational pamphlets right under the headline of "WHY THE US IS LEAVING SOUTH KOREA<<
I agree. The pathetic mainstream media should also give it some coverage. The anti-American rallies take place practically every week now, and they're bigger and bigger each time. And that jackass Roh was elected almost entirely on his anti-American rantings, much like Schroeder in Germany, and of course both are becoming persona-non-grata in their respective countries now because there was never much else good about them. (That's the one good thing for Americans to take out of all of it. hehehehe)
Posted by: g wiz ||
08/21/2003 8:27 Comments ||
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#8
Bufh. This is a performance in a different class. Like comparing Modern Gymastics to Classical gymnastics. I say the point scoring system needs to be developed, and the initial grades appear a bit high for not only the first competetor, but for the ONLY competetor.
#9
a higher pitch of strain A Randy Rhoads guitar solo, maybe? (*holds card*) 9.4!
Posted by: Raj [http://angrycyclist.blogspot.com] 2003-8-21 11:24:26 AM
Well, the "lyrics" did seem to resemble Ozzy's lame attempt of "Take Me Out to the Ballgame"!
#14
The article is a classic example of what happens when you translate grammatically poor Korean into grammatically incorrect english........
You know, I think it is time that we bring the troops home, roll up the sidewalks and pray, the world is honest to goodness going completely nuts.
Those looneys have a complete psychopath with a napoleonic complex running around with a freakin nuclear weapon and they are protesting the only thing that keeps them from eating grass and drinking tree bark tea..........I bet if they were in this country they would vote democrat.......what most of them are going to come over here AND vote democrat.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
