Remember. When driving with death, buckle up.
A mobile phone call may have saved the life of a panic-stricken French driver who found himself hurtling down a motorway at 125 mph but unable to slow down because of a mystery fault with his luxury saloon car. I had a saloon car once. It got me to one and back and sometimes served as an actual saloon...
The driver called police to say the cruise control of his Renault Vel Satis had jammed while overtaking a lorry, and that all attempts to brake or put the automatic into neutral had failed, police said Tuesday. Oh, a Renault. That explains a lot.
The driver became increasingly sure he was about to die as his top-of-the-range model raced toward a toll station on the A71 motorway between Bourges and Clermont-Ferrand, the police officer who took the call Sunday said. "He was panicking. He was doing between 180 kph and 200 kph (110 mph to 125 mph) all the time. He was doing 140 kph (87 mph) and then the car just accelerated away on its own," officer Patrick Majerus said. Mon dieux!Ze Saloon Car! Eeeet haz gone bearsairk!
The driver, Hicham Dequiedt, veered left and right to avoid traffic and even switched at times to the hard shoulder reserved for rescue vehicles, in order to avoid vehicles in his path. "He thought he was finished. I'm not surprised he was scared -- it's not easy to go through a toll station at 200 kph, the gap is pretty tight," Majerus said. Never know unless you try...
Police attempting to escort him along the motorway found they were quickly overtaken. Dequiedt eventually managed to cut the engine and came to a halt around 12 miles from the toll station, which had been evacuated as a precaution. Oh, c'mon! 12 miles! Jeez, that was close!
Renault boss Louis Schweitzer said he was mystified by the incident, telling LCI television: "As its been described to me, this incident surprises me and seems highly improbable." Doesn't surprise me have driven one of your cars. The Renault P.O.S. I believe it was called...
A spokesman said Renault experts were inspecting the electronic speed control, brakes and automatic gearbox of the car. The results should be known by early Wednesday. Ve have come to ze conclusion...he was dronk
#11
"Hey, doll. Could you scare up another round for our table over here? And tell the cook this is low grade dogfood. I've had better food at the ballgame, you know? This steak still has marks from where the jockey was hitting it."
"He called me a baboon, he thinks I'm his wife."
"I hear this place is restricted, Wang, so don't tell 'em you're Jewish, okay?"
Damn he was funny.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
10/05/2004 21:42 Comments ||
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#12
One of my heroes....along with Redd Foxx. Both put on great shows in Vegas... :((
#16
The belief is that they always die in threes. Janet Leigh, Rodney Dangerfield.
OK, who else is, umm... really old, or really sick.
OK, I'll go away now.
"Suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an Eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep. He knew that it had become aware of his gaze. A fierce eager will was there. It leapt toward him; almost like a finger he felt it, searching for him."
"The Eye: that horrible growing sense of a hostile will that strove with a great power to pierce all shadows of cloud, and earth, and flesh, and to see you: pin you under it's deadly gaze, naked, immovable. So thin, so frail and thin, the veils were become that still warded it off." http://www.barking-moonbat.com/images/uploads/evil-eye.jpg
Edited for brevity.
A 67-year-old Australian pilot whose small plane crashed in the Pacific Ocean was spotted treading water after his aircraft went down about eight hours before, and a rescue ship was on its way, U.S. Coast Guard officials said. Ray Clamback was spotted Monday evening by a C-130 aircraft that was dispatched from Honolulu just before noon, said Chief Petty Officer Marsha Delaney, a Coast Guard spokeswoman in Honolulu. Clamback was able to climb into a life raft dropped by the C-130, but details of his condition or how he survived the ordeal weren't immediately available. His plane went down about 1,200 kilometers (750 miles) south of Oahu. Delaney said Clamback was to remain in the raft until he can be picked up by a container ship that was on its way to the crash site to help in the search. Officials said it was to arrive sometime around 2 a.m. Tuesday. It's 2 PM EDT right now--hopefully they already picked him up an hour or two ago!
Posted by: Dar ||
10/05/2004 2:00:21 PM ||
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#1
This reminds me of those "How to Speak Australian" commercials that Foster's used to run.
"Here already, mate? I was just getting warmed up."
Seriously, I hope the guy is OK.
Posted by: Matt ||
10/05/2004 14:42 Comments ||
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#2
I did hear on the radio news that a container ship was either in route to pick him up or had. But at 67 years old I have to admit hes got bigger balls than I do trying to solo south out of paradise
Edited for brevity.
An Army MP just back from a tour in Afghanistan was shot in a donut shop parking confrontation but then beat his alleged assailant into submission. Jeremy Bailey, 24, of Weymouth,[MA,] received stitches at South Shore Hospital to close a gash in his forehead left by the bullet, and was released. ''He's lucky,'' Weymouth Police Capt. Brian Callahan said. ''This was a dangerous, dangerous incident around 9 at night at a Dunkin' Donuts that is pretty busy.'' Police arrested Edward Green, 20, of Mattapan and charged him with attempted murder, and Nicole D. Pina, 21, of 11 McCusker Drive, Braintree, who was with him. Callahan said she assaulted several police officers. ''These people were totally out of control,'' Callahan said.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/05/2004 1:05:42 PM ||
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#4
This was up previously. Bailey lowered his head and charged the gunnie. The shooter's chick then tried to steal his car, so he pulled her out the window.
#5
Was it posted before? I did a search on his name and nothing came up. Oh, well...
Posted by: Dar ||
10/05/2004 17:37 Comments ||
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Edward Green of Mattpan - I'll provide the translation - "Minoroty drug dealer / carjacker training ground". Just wondering how his 'ho bitch made it out of the ghetto to Braintree as a resident.
Taking their lead from the Eddie Murphy comedy Coming to America, a gang of Africans based in Moscow succeeded in conning several Russian businessmen out of tens of thousands of pounds by posing as flamboyant African government ministers, according to police.
In the 1988 film which inspired the alleged scam, Murphy plays Prince Akeem from the kingdom of Zamunda. His deception is the other way round: Akeem poses as a fast-food worker in New York, so that he can escape an arranged marriage and find a bride who really loves him.
Four Africans have been charged with fraud and face up to six years if convicted. Prosecutors say they painstakingly copied the costumes and flamboyant mannerisms of Prince Akeem and his father, King Jaffe Joffer (played in the movie by James Earl Jones) to trick their Russian victims. The scam was said to be based on a tried and tested method usually employed on the internet. One of the gang would pretend to be the nephew of a wealthy minister, in one case the former deputy prime minister of Guinea-Bissau. He would explain that his uncle wanted to smuggle $22.5m (£12.5m) into Russia in an African diplomatic pouch, and was willing to give a cut to anyone who would help him. There was inevitably a catch; the victim would need to put up $43,000 in cash to bribe an African embassy in Moscow to take delivery of the pouch.
Continued on Page 49
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10/05/2004 4:49:14 AM ||
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A vibrating sex toy in a rubbish bin sparked a security scare and shut a regional Australian airport for almost an hour, officials say. An emergency was declared at the airport in Mackay, 500 miles north of Brisbane in tropical Queensland state, after airport staff heard a strange noise coming from the bin, Australian Broadcasting Corporation radio said on Monday. "It was rather disconcerting when the rubbish bin started humming furiously," cafeteria manager Lynne Bryant said. Police evacuated the terminal and were about to call in bomb experts when an unidentified passenger came forward to identify the contents of a package left in the bin. A police spokeswoman said the package was identified as an "adult novelty device".
Posted by: tipper ||
10/05/2004 4:44:54 AM ||
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#1
Lol! What tune? I had a girlfriend who would hum, uh, oh, nevermind. These devices will now prolly be labeled as "toxic waste" or "WMD" (wymyn's motion device?)and require special disposal measures, lol!
Please click on the link to view some truly marvelous mechanical models.
Welcome to the Engineman's model engineering web site. On the Models page you will find a photo gallery of miniature steam plants, stationary and marine engines, boilers, tools and working ornaments that I have constructed over the past seventeen years. The Workshop page is dedicated mostly to the tiny microlathe I used to make these things, and to a new minilathe that I purchased to ease the burden in future. I am a member of the Nova Scotia - based Atlantic Model Engineering Society. Our organization represents miniature machine enthusiasts and live steamers from four of Canada's ten provinces. The quality of this man's work cries out for sharing. I could not help but do so.
Posted by: Zenster ||
10/05/2004 1:12:59 AM ||
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#1
Please be sure to click on the "Engineman's models page" link. You'll be glad you did.
#4
Thank you, guys, you are most welcome. This man is an absolute master of his craft. I was confident that at least a few people here would really enjoy his work. I, for one, am simply astounded by his skill and attention to detail.
Saudi Arabia will release 5,500 prisoners, mainly convicted Asian and African workers serving prison terms in different jails.
Boy howdy that's a lot of alk runners.
Only those foreign workers, whose cases are unrelated to such serious crimes as terrorism and drug-trafficking, will be released and deported during Ramadan following a royal clemency to be granted by the drooling, incontinent Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Fahd. "The process to free the prisoners will start from the holy month of Ramadan that begins in mid-October," said Brig. Gen. Ali Al-Harithi, director general of prisons. Al-Harithi said in remarks published in a local daily that "no one convicted on terrorism charges will be released unless they're related closely to me. The process will continue throughout Ramadan." Al-Harithi neted that the imprisoned expatriates, once released, will be repatriated to their countries immediately.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
10/05/2004 12:12:49 AM ||
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...despite the gradual Saudization of jobs...
Which should be complete about, say, 2100 (unless the Magic Kingdom gets nuclear-glassed or fusion becomes commerically viable). But there will always be a need for 'assistants', who will do the actual work.
Kilroy's become a liability to UKIP alright.
Michael Howard's hard-line policy on blocking an EU constitution and bringing powers back from Brussels paid its first dividend last night when the UK Independence Party lost its biggest financial backer. Paul Sykes, a multi-millionaire Yorkshire businessman, said he would no longer fund UKIP because it had set out to "kill" the Conservatives at the next election by fielding candidates who could unseat Eurosceptic Tory MPs. His decision will come as a considerable relief to Tory MPs in marginal constituencies. David Davis, the Eurosceptic shadow home secretary, suggested yesterday that UKIP could damage the Tories in the same way as the former Referendum Party, which was reckoned to have cost them 30 to 50 seats in 1997.
Mr Sykes contributed half of UKIP's £2 million fighting fund for this year's European elections, which helped the anti-Brussels party quadruple its tally of Euro-MPs and emerge as a significant force. Over the past decade Mr Sykes has spent nearly £6 million on campaigns by Eurosceptic politicians. UKIP had been relying heavily on his backing for its general election campaign next year. Mr Sykes said that UKIP had "blown it" by deciding at its conference at the weekend to stand against the Tories in every constituency, rejecting calls not to challenge Tory MPs regarded as Eurosceptic.
Although Mr Sykes had wanted Mr Kilroy-Silk to become UKIP's leader, they have fallen out over the new aggressive strategy. Mr Sykes said that UKIP could not win a general election and by standing in every constituency it would damage the Tories, the only Eurosceptic party capable of forming a government. Leading Tories, including John Redwood, who returned to the shadow cabinet last month, have been in secret talks with Mr Sykes for weeks. Mr Sykes, who made his fortune by exporting second-hand buses and lorries, said he welcomed Mr Howard's tougher line on Europe.
Continued on Page 49
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10/05/2004 10:34:09 AM ||
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The chief economic adviser to the Russian President, Vladimir Putin, has broken ranks with his own government, criticising the Russian cabinet's decision to approve the Kyoto treaty on global warming. In the old days, he'd disappear for doing that. Hmmmm.
Andrei Illarionov called the treaty a "broad-based assault" on economic growth, the environment and on "human civilisation itself". HE gets it, even if the Western Euro wankers don't.
Politics rather than economic or environmental considerations motivated the cabinet's decision last week to approve the Kyoto treaty, he said. The 1997 treaty allows the sale of surplus carbon credits, a surplus Russia expects to gain, and he suggested that well-connected Russians would seek to profit from credit sales. Companies with "very good, special and personal relations with particular government officials" had lobbied the Putin Government to ratify the treaty, Mr Illarionov said. But, but, but, that's so French! Guess the Russians are more Western than we thought.
The treaty would create an "Orwellian nightmare" of "bureaucratic monsters" who would decide carbon limits country-by-country, and determine each country's economic potential. In other words, French with teeth. ANOTHER reason to tell the Kyoto klowns to stuff it. Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/05/2004 10:05:35 AM ||
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Fred - I swear I put this on Page 2. Please redirect.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/05/2004 10:20 Comments ||
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I think it's a good deal for Russia. In the short term Russia gets billions for doing nothing. When they develop enough to match their 1990 carbon dioxide levels, they can either ignore the limits (who is going to enforce it?) or repudiate the treaty. Money for nothing, and the chicks for free.
Posted by: ed ||
10/05/2004 10:36 Comments ||
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#3
Ed - you've got a point.
The Western Europeans aren't meeting their goals. (And I'm sure somebody is going to hold a meeting to discuss appointing a committee to discuss it.) Why should anybody else?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/05/2004 10:51 Comments ||
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Yep.
Kyoto is aimed directly at the US. If other countries fail to meet goals then little attention will be paid. If the US fails to meet goals then rabid environmentalists in the US will sue and the worldwide media will loudly decry the US failure to follow international law.
If the goal of reducing CO2 is important (and in the long run I believe it is), then the US can implement policies for reducing CO2 production that make the best sense for the US.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/05/2004 02:41 ||
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#1
From the tone of the article, this looks positive. It will be interesting to see if the Japanese public will approve of having their own forces take on some military functions as we withdraw some from Okinawa. The NORKs are in peoples' minds, I suspect, and the Japanese are figuring out what their role in international affairs & security will be for the next generation.
It's good to see the possibility of a successful, non-conflict-riddent realignment during these turbulent decades (as I suspect the next 20 yrs will be).
#2
Although I've no problem w/relocating folks to the mainland - Hokkaido is a great training place, so is Fuji for that matter. Reducing troops away from Taiwan is not a great idea imho. I'd love to see us shift from SKor to Australia if possible.
#3
I'd like Guam to become a major military center. Sort of a Diego Garcia in the Pacific. Of course we can't put all of our eggs in one basket so a secondary base in Singapore or Australia would be nice.
A barking Leftist party that wants to institutionalise sexism? Noooooo. Say it ain't so...
A group of Swedish politicians is proposing to hit men with a domestic violence tax, in order to pay for the costs to society of abuse against women. Sweden's parliament will open debate today on the Left Party proposal, which follows an Amnesty International report this year which found that violence against women increased almost 40 per cent during the 1990s and that 20 to 40 women are battered to death in Sweden each year. "It must be clear to all we have a gigantic social problem and cost in men's violence towards women and we must discuss how we are going to pay for it," said Gudrun Schyman, the party's former leader, and one of several female MPs who have signed the motion. "We have to have a discussion so that men understand that they have a collective financial responsibility," she added. The Left Party says the idea of men collectively paying for the social costs of violence towards women is no different in principle than the fact that poor people pay less tax than rich people. Uh. Come again?
I read that twice. It made less sense the second time.
The Left Party, which has 30 members in the 349-seat Swedish parliament, supports the Social Democratic minority government, giving it enough votes to muster a majority. In order to gauge what the tax should be, it is proposing to appoint a taskforce to establish the cost of treatment of women who are victims of domestic violence tax. The Left Party motion, tabled by the party's feminist council, of which Ms Schyman is a member, is unlikely to win a majority in parliament although many women MPs are expected to vote in favour of it. Female members account for 45 per cent of the parliament, the highest proportion of women MPS in the world.
In 2003, 22,400 cases of violence against women were reported to police, but the country's Council for Crime Prevention said the number could be higher because many women do not report abuse. Sweden already has the highest taxes in Europe, with a person earning a monthly salary of 30,000 kronor (£2,280) paying 35 per cent tax. Call me cynical, but might this rise in domestic violence be linked in any way to the growth of Sweden's Muslim population? If so, maybe a Muslim tax might be considered? Why not be egaliatarian and just implement a person tax? Then they'd all be happy.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
10/05/2004 10:18:11 AM ||
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#1
If I gotta pay a tax, I'm damn sure gonna get my money's worth...
#2
From this week's News of the Weird: "In April, the St. Augustine (Fla.) Record announced the opening of artist Andrea Giovanni's exhibit on behalf of The Betty Griffin House, a local shelter for battered women; eight days later, the same newspaper carried news of Giovanni's arrest for allegedly beating up her boyfriend and trying to run him over with her car."
#3
Here's our girl. OUTSTANDING lefty credentials she's familiar with the tax laws...
Gudrun Schyman (born June 9, 1948) is a female Swedish politician. Currently a Member of Parliament for the Swedish Left Party, of which she served as leader from 1993 until January 2003, when she was forced to resign over charges of tax fraud. Shyman began her political career by joining a secterist Marxist-Leninist grouping (KFML) on the far left in the mid 1970s, but later claimed that she never had been a communist and that she only joined because she had been in love with one of the activists. Following the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Soviet Union Schyman, as the elected leader, she was successful in transforming the public perception of the party from a old communist party, albeit a reformed one, into a populist party, that was ideologically to the left and embracing feminism.
Even though the public perception of the party changed under her leadership senior party members are still admittedly communists, and in some respects there seems to have been few changes at the core. Shyman's greatest asset was her appeal to the voters, which doubled the number of MP's during her leadership, and because of this her transgressions were forgiven by the party and recurring public scandals did not seem to affect her popularity. In 2003 she was charged with missleading the tax authorities by attempting to make illicit deductions. Part of her populist agenda was based on critisism against that kind of behaviour and this finally made it impossible for her to continue as the head of the party.
#7
I believe the counter-proposal is for tradeable tax vouchers that would allow one to sell the right to beat another's wife. Or, if sold at a discount, to beat some sense into a Swedish Left Party.
#8
"Dang! I could feel my I.Q. being sucked out as I read that article."
Hell, I could feel the life being sucked out of me while reading it-- what a dour, depressive culture they must have, to have their government obsess over this kind of shit.
Ah, the glories of Socialism. Power to the People!
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/05/2004 17:00 Comments ||
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#9
Hmmmmm - what if you're muslim? Do the values of your multi-culti contribution to infidel society outweigh the emergency room bills unpaid from your wife's admittance after a proper Islamic beating? Oh, and provide all female doctors and attendants for her, infidel pigs!
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 17:15 Comments ||
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#11
Muslims should be taxed more to fund rape counseling programs since Muslims commit a disproportionate number of rapes in Sweden. Of Swedish women of course.
Four Congolese soldiers taking part in a five week training programme in Belgium have vanished from the army camp they were staying at, it emerged on Monday.
"One minute they wuz right here, then we turned around and, poof, they wuz gone!"
The four were part of a 280 strong contingent of troops from the Democratic Republic of Congo taking part in the training operation. Sources close to the Belgian Defence Ministry on Sunday called on the four to return to their barracks. It is not yet clear how or why the men disappeared but a number of experts have speculated that they may be trying to avoid returning home and are seeking to live permanently in Europe.
Stay in Europe or go back to the Congo, boy, that's a tough choice.
All four soldiers have family either in Belgium or in other European countries.
Anyone thing of looking for them there? Hello?
The disappearances led the authorities in charge of the training exercise to cancel visits to the remaining troops by family members living in Europe. The Congolese troops are set to return home on 20 October.
He said hopefully
Posted by: Steve ||
10/05/2004 10:16:40 AM ||
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The European Commission has signalled that it may suspend membership negotiations with Turkey candidate countries if they fail to meet tough EU criteria. The new conditions are set out in an EU panic strategy document as the Commission prepares to recommend the start of membership talks with Turkey. The keenly awaited reports on Turkey, Bulgaria and Romania will be released on Wednesday. Any backtracking on human rights or democracy would delay the negotiations.
The man who will oversee any future negotiations with Turkey, incoming enlargement commissioner Olli Rehn, also made it clear he wanted a permanent mechanism that would prevent large inflows of Turkish workers into the EU. Officials say they support the conclusion that Turkey has made sufficient progress to begin membership talks. But at the same time, the EU will signal a major shift in how it deals with Turkey prospective members. Starting with Croatia next year, membership negotiations will be longer and harder. Promises of reform will no longer be enough to conclude negotiations. According to the strategy paper - seen by the BBC - benchmarks for the implementation of reforms will have to be met. And for the first time, the EU will introduce a brake clause - the possibility to suspend negotiations in the case of a serious and persistent breach of the principles of liberty, democracy, respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. The EU itself wouldn't pass those tests. Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Bulldog ||
10/05/2004 9:52:31 AM ||
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#1
LOL, Bulldog.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/05/2004 10:53 Comments ||
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#2
Officials say they support the conclusion that Turkey has made sufficient progress to begin membership talks. But at the same time, the EU will signal a major shift in how it deals with prospective members. Starting with Croatia next year, membership negotiations will be longer and harder. Promises of reform will no longer be enough to conclude negotiations.
What looked like a very makeable twenty five yard field goal has been turned into something just a wee bit more difficult....
#4
"Our introductory offer at favorable terms/rates has expired. We do have a new program with slightly stiffer different terms and conditions. Apply today - we'll get back to you...."
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 12:47 Comments ||
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#5
If the EU had been lax about letting a not-fully-reformed Turkey join, you people would have seen that as further indication of Europe being turned to an extension of Middle-east.
If the EU had turned Turkey down flat, you'd have attacked EU as being the ally of jihadis in undermining democracy in Turkey -- this has been the attitude of several Rantburgers in the past, especially since idiot-Bush urged EU to let Turkey enter.
Now that EU is being responsible about the countries it allows to enter and strict about the criteria they must fulfill, you are calling this responsibility "squirming".
#6
if the EU countries lived up to the lofty ideals they hold others to, we wouldn't call them the hypocritical pseudo-elite assholes that they are.
But "doublethinking duckspeakers" was highly entertaining, and rather creative, for you ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 13:53 Comments ||
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#7
I thought Aris said he was leaving and never coming back.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/05/2004 13:54 Comments ||
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Frank> "if the EU countries lived up to the lofty ideals they hold others to"
Make it specific, Frank. Which "lofty ideal" *exactly* is being violated by EU countries even as its used to bar accession to Turkey?
And wasn't recently the problem that EU countries held *themselves* to a very lofty ideal, e.g. when there was a iron-hard watch against Heider's Austria? Ofcourse back then the claim was that the evil EU violated the rights of its member-states.
Robert> Your mind seems to be taking many months processing outdated information. You should consider upgrading it.
#9
If the EU had been lax about letting a not-fully-reformed Turkey join, you people would have seen that as further indication of Europe being turned to an extension of Middle-east.
If the EU had turned Turkey down flat, you'd have attacked EU as being the ally of jihadis in undermining democracy in Turkey -- this has been the attitude of several Rantburgers in the past, especially since idiot-Bush urged EU to let Turkey enter.
Depends which of us you mean - the firebreathing islam haters, or the utopian neocons and overly nuanced liberal hawks? :) I doubt the the muslim haters would have had any problem with the EU turning down Turkey, and I for one would not have attacked the EU for letting them in.
Some of course try to be BOTH islamophobes AND utopian neocons. I admit to having difficulty figuring such people out.
#10
Poor Aris doesn't know which way to point his guns. Of course the EU would be wise to admit the non-jihadist, resolutely secular nation of Turkey. Turkey is the best model existing for what muslim countries should aspire to become.
Embracing, instead of pissing on, Turkey would send a hugely positive signal that the west is serious about friendship with democratic, normal, sane, moderate, reasonably liberal and open muslim nations. Which is of course why Bush and Rumsfeld, brilliantly, have continued to push so hard for this.
#11
lex> Poor Aris doesn't know which way to point his guns. Not sure what exactly you mean by this. My stance on Turkey has been consistent: EU isn't ready to accept it yet.
EU *might* be ready to accept it in a decade from now. Depends on whether the EU and Turkey will be different by then, and in which direction.
"that the west is serious about friendship with democratic, normal, sane, moderate, reasonably liberal and open muslim nations"
Sorry but we have to judge "Reasonably liberal" according to European, not Middle-eastern standards. We won't lower our bar, they've gotta raise theirs. The bar can't be lowered in order to send a politically correct message of inclusiveness.
And ofcourse the other problem is the economical aspect of it, which has little to do with culture.
#12
Turkey is at least as liberal as the corruption-ridden banana republic to its west. I don't recall Turkey ever having civil war between fascists and communists during the past few generations.
#14
It's the Greeks who are stuck in the 1960s-1970s. That's the period I was referring to. You jokers are still blaming us for your own misery from that era. But you win on the "liberal" question.
Still, I'm sure you'd still agree with the banana republic characterization. I would also point out that EU membership has a liberalizing effect, which is why Bush and Rumsfeld, again, brilliantly, have urged membership for not only the former Warsaw Pact nations of Cz-Pol-Hu but also Turkey.
#15
Why didn't you choose to cite Transparency International's Corruption Perception Index this time, Aris?
Greece: 4.2
Turkey: 3.2
Both /10. Greece marginally better. EU average: 6.5. EU itself: ? Who knows. No competent auditing is done. Billions of taxpayers' money just disappears, and many billions more is wasted propping up uneconomic, inefficient and unsustainable agricultural practices.
#16
Bulldog> Believe or not, the time between my last response and now was taken downloading the 3 mb Transparency International report -- I don't have a broadband connection and it took me 7-8 mins or so. Was just about to say to lex, that his "corruption-ridden" is appropriate to refer to Greece when compared to most of the rest of Europe, but again fails when he uses it in a comparison between Greece and Turkey, since Turkey's even worse.
Lex> Sorry, no civil war with communists (or anyone else for that matter) in the 1960s-1970s. The last civil war we had (and only one involving communists AFAIK) was in the late 1940s.
"jokers are still blaming us for your own misery from that era. "
Yup. But whether for good or bad, EU doesn't have a "no-whining" criterion for entry.
#18
What was lex pointing at? I'm stumped. And I don't think it's my poor eyesight. Is someone going to point out that the EC/EU prevented us barbarous Euro hordes starting another World War after '45 next?
#19
Yes, the EU is, within Europe, a good thing for US interests: it diminishes greatly the chance that Europe's perennial tendency toward illiberal extremes will cause another suicidal European war that requires yet another US intervention and loss of American life.
It's the EU's ridiculous posturing on matters beyond Europe that's so annoying. Especially as regards the middle east. If the EU nations were content to accept their fate as a rich, happy, quiet, and harmless old folks' home that's of little importance to any other region's security, then I'd have no problem whatsoever with the EU. Might be a good retirement destination.
#20
The EU restrains the continent's pernennial inclination toward communism or fascism. It's esp. useful as a club that sets a high bar for aspiring new democracies who wish to join in on the EU gravy train.
But an increasingly integrated EU adds no value to wealthy, sane, stable liberal Britain.
#22
The EU restrains the continent's pernennial inclination toward communism or fascism.
It does? How? Simply stating something with an air of authority doesn't make it true. Is this assumption derived from the logic that a sufficiently large population is in itself enough to buffer politics? That is demonstrably nonsense. Germany and Italy turned fascist, and China and Russia, Communist. Are Denmark and Andorra's politics a neck-snapping endless volley from one extreme to another? China's population is far greater than Europe's. Some help.
The US (and NATO) has done far more to prevent another World War than the EC/EU has. IMO, the EU, with its attempts to portray the US as a common threat, a cartoonish villain, is more likely to cause one.
#23
Now that EU is being responsible about the countries it allows to enter and strict about the criteria they must fulfill, you are calling this responsibility "squirming".
Because that's what it is. Since it's pretty obvious that the EU doesn't like Turkey as it is now, they're simply going to drag it out as long as possible. No simple yes or no, just a long drawn-out pace. Ooooh, Turkey is now ready for TALKS! Yessiree....
EU *might* be ready to accept it in a decade from now.
Somebody relay this information to the Turkish government, and see what they have to say about it.
#24
The EU restrains the continent's pernennial inclination toward communism or fascism.
It does? How?
By allowing liberal Czech, Poland, Estonia to join the club and denying entry to authoritarian Slovakia, Ukraine, and Belarus. Ditto for Slovenia vs Croatia.
By kicking Greece out of what was then the EC when the military quashed democracy and then letting Greece back in once it had shown an ability to cast off authoritarianism.
#25
lex> Greece was never part of the EC before the junta -- perhaps you are thinking of the Council of Europe. And Slovakia is hardly authoritarian and it is indeed inside the EU -- perhaps you are thinking of Moldova, which like Ukraine and Belarus forms the trio of Russia-leaning countries with an authoritarian bend.
Bomb-a-rama> "Since it's pretty obvious that the EU doesn't like Turkey as it is now, they're simply going to drag it out as long as possible." And that's "squirming" according to you?
"No simple yes or no, just a long drawn-out pace."
When somebody living with you asks you to marry them, I think that saying "I feel we are not quite ready for marriage yet, let's have a long cohabitation period where we try to work out the problems but we don't commit to anything as yet" is an honourable response to make.
Is that "squirming" according to you? I'd say "better patient than hasty". There's no procedure for other EU countries to evict a member yet. That's why we don't want to regret it.
#26
Btw, for the above analogy to work, you'll have to assume that the person being asked to marriage wouldn't have the power to easily divorce them afterwards -- the same way that the EU doesn't have the power to evict a member.
#27
"I feel we are not quite ready for marriage yet, let's have a long cohabitation period where we try to work out the problems but we don't commit to anything as yet"
Aris, on a purely personal note: Don't Try That. Hem and haw and go work in the yard or in the barn. Trust me. Clear datum.
#28
Just an analogy, Shipman. On a likewise personal (and thus irrelevant) note I'd be very unlikely to move in with anyone that I *wouldn't* be ready to also marry. But I'd not find it wrong for others to take the approach I described, if they feel it suits them best.
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 19:36 Comments ||
Top||
#30
"Promises of reform will no longer be enough to conclude negotiations. According to the strategy paper - seen by the BBC - benchmarks for the implementation of reforms will have to be met. And for the first time, the EU will introduce a brake clause - the possibility to suspend negotiations in the case of a serious and persistent breach of the principles of liberty, democracy, respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms."
Benchmarks (to measure whether reforms have met the test) or benchmarks for
*implementation* of reforms (to show a turn towards progress but not satisfying European standards for "liberty, democracy, respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms")? Quite different. The second would leave quite a bit of wiggle room timewise, I would think.
Are the "principles" explicit or open to interpretation?
#31
jules> In the end it doesn't matter how explicit or implicit the "principles" are, because 25 nations will have to individually give an assent vote, plus the European Parliament gonna have to give an assent vote, before Turkey is allowed to enter. And each of these is fully free to deny Turkey entry for whatever reason, including their own interpretations of whether the criteria for "liberty, democracy, human rights, etc" have been been passed or not.
One blackball is enough, even though ofcourse any nation would hate to use its veto in isolation and will first attempt to find others to share the rejection of Turkey.
So, you see... as long as the question of Turkey's suitability is in *any* doubt, the system of 25 potential vetos makes it practically impossible for it to enter. Even Cyprus wouldn't have entered were it not for having Greece as an ally on the inside.
Yep, sure is. They wanna join, and you and your French/German cohorts are looking to throw as many obstacles in their path as possible. All under the premise of not wanting to be "hasty".
But go ahead and take your time; it's going to take like, ten, twenty years possibly before anything happens? Make sure you're not being hasty. Others will call it by its real name, and it starts with "SQ".
#33
Thank you, Bomb-a-rama. As you say, we'll make sure of not being hasty.
"Caution" and "squirminess" are identical, heh? We don't need no stinking mind, go with the gut feeling instead. Cheering or booing, as I've said in the past --- other alternatives are mocked. It tells more about you than about the EU though, this attitude.
Yes, it's quite likely to take ten, twenty years possibly before anything happens: and that's bad, because...? Norway on her part has been making sure that she'd not been acting hastily for the last 40 years -- and unlike the EU's case with Turkey, Norway would even have an out atleast.
#34
Yes, it's quite likely to take ten, twenty years possibly before anything happens: and that's bad, because...?
Hey, what's another twenty years when you've been snubbed for forty already? Turks obviously need to be reminded of their place, eh? Turkey might be crashing the party a lot sooner than you think, Aris!
#35
The racism is yours, Bulldog, not mine. This has nothing to do with punishing the Turks, nor "teaching them their place".
I was in favour of the Annan plan --- that means I was already in favour of a Turkish community entering the EU, of Turkish becoming an official language of the EU. I am still in favour of the Turkish-cypriots entering the EU, within or without a reunification with the Republic of Cyprus.
But Turkey is poor, humongous, and democratically lacking. EU is not ready to accept it yet, the same way it wouldn't be ready to accept Russia. Russia's size makes it impossible for it to ever enter EU, Turkey's case is not as problematic, so she still may, just not yet.
Snubbed for forty years? LOL, yes according to you I'm sure that even the Soviet Union should have been given a seat. We don't need no steenking mind.
And dude, why the hell are you in favour of Turkey's entry in the EU? EU is a *bad* thing according to you remember? So, why hate the Turks so much?
#36
It's just a meaningless game. Before 10 years is over, the current muslim population of Western Europe-- ~18.5 million -- would reach about 45 million, while European indigenous population is in decline. Provided that things stay the same, by 2050, 50% of population would be muslim and by 2099, 85%+. But things would not be the same. Within 10 years, Islam will conquer Europe and shari'a would be the new codex of law. Sorry Euros, there's nothing you can do about it and when you realize you should, it will be already too late. You self-wussification would be turned into dhimmification without too much of an effort.
Projecting racism once again, Aris? Why is it always you who tries to drag race into conversations? You are race obssessed, and I must infer, racist. You should aspire to higher issues.
But Turkey is poor, humongous, and democratically lacking.
Well the EU meets the last two criteria, and is on its way to achieving the third. Turkey's moving the other way in at least two.
Turkey is ... humongous ... Russia's size makes it impossible for it to ever enter EU
And you know what? I call bullshit. Tell me why size suddenly matters. Germany must now be too large for your inexplicably size-limited EU? Are there just too many God-damned krauts in the club for your liking? Does smaller = better as far as you're concerned? Why? What nonsense. What a lame excuse.
Snubbed for forty years? LOL
It's certainly more than 30... But how much longer would you ideally like the amusing snubbing to go on for? As you've suddenly announced to us your objection that Turkey is too humungous to join, I assume you'd like it to be a running joke at Turkey's expense forever.
And dude, why the hell are you in favour of Turkey's entry in the EU? EU is a *bad* thing according to you remember? So, why hate the Turks so much?
Why do Bush and Cheney 'hate' Turkey so much? Two words for you: Trojan horse. The way EU federasts like yourself get your knickers in a twist at the mere mention of Turkey shows you want no room in your aspirational middle-aged moribund post-Christian euro socialist real-world drop-outs' superstate for a mass of young Turks. Turkish membership of the EU would be good for everyone except committed federalists. No superstate EU for you. Instead back to a more sensible free trade concept without restrictive ties and a monstrous and ambitious Government. Don't you get it?
#38
"The racism is yours, Bulldog, not mine. Projecting racism once again, Aris? Why is it always you who tries to drag race into conversations?"
Oh, sorry, I forgot that for you bigotry because of nationality and bigotry because of race are two *entirely* different things. I just can't be bothered to differentiate between them, though. I've never seen a reason to.
Size doesn't "suddenly" matter, it always mattered. Besides the political issue, a poor small country wouldn't affect EU's budget as much. A poor *huge* country does. Taking in Albania, even though she's even poorer than Turkey wouldn't be an economic problem. Turkey would.
Germany is wealthy and fully democratic. Russia and Turkey are not.
Russia, where population is concerned, is bigger than any two other EU countries combined. Where land-area is concerned she has borders with Mongolia and China and even North Korea.
If you don't see why that makes it different from Germany which is at the geographical center of Europe, then again that's your problem.
"Why do Bush and Cheney 'hate' Turkey so much?"
Bush and Cheney, unlike you, haven't claimed that EU membership is horrible. They meant it as a good thing for Turkey, when they asked EU to let it in.
"Trojan horse. "
Am glad you admit that's your reason. If Bush and Cheney likewise have that reason they should be honest about it: "We want Turkey inside the EU as a trojan horse to destroy it."
"Turkish membership of the EU would be good for everyone except committed federalists. "
According to you, "committed federalist" is anyone who doesn't want to turn EU into a mere copy of EFTA.
"But how much longer would you ideally like the amusing snubbing to go on for? "
Until Turkey is atleast a 2/2 in the Freedomhouse scale, and until the possibility of national vetoes have been extinguished from most decision making processes, and the percentage of population representation required for a vote to pass the Council of Ministers, goes down to atleast 60% from the current 72% or the proposed 65% of the EU constitution.
"The way EU federasts like yourself get your knickers in a twist at the mere mention of Turkey shows you want no room in your aspirational middle-aged moribund post-Christian euro socialist real-world drop-outs' superstate for a mass of young Turks."
It shows that we recognize UK's and USA's pressure for Turkey's entry as the Trojan Horse that you admitted it to be.
This "EU federast" here would have no problem with the young muslims of Bosnia or Albania or even Azerbaijan joining up -- in fact I'm eagerly waiting it: in Azerbaijan's case when it becomes democratic enough ofcourse.
#40
Not a Trojan Horse any more than our advocacy of Polish EU membership was.
It's Bush and Rumsfeld who are pushing muslim nations toward democracy and Chirac who's supporting the fascist "resistance", not the other way around. Helping Turkey gain membership in a club of democratic western nations will ensure the survival of Turkish democracy. Sorry to burst your conspiracy theory.
#41
It wasn't I who voiced the conspiracy theory about the Trojan Horse, it was Bulldog. I, on my part, I am quite willing to accept the possibility of a decent motive on Bush's and Cheney's front.
#42
Oh, sorry, I forgot that for you bigotry because of nationality and bigotry because of race are two *entirely* different things. I just can't be bothered to differentiate between them, though. I've never seen a reason to.
You moron. Racism is simply biological prejudice, nationality is about culture, religion, mores, attitude and outlook... You can be an ethnic Indian but 100% British, or an ethnic Lithuanian who is French. Is it really so hard to grasp? You can't differentiate between racism and culturalism, other -isms... How old are you? You're a typical bloody lefty in this respect. You scream "RACISM" whenever you feel threatened and expect to be able to taken seriously. It's pathetic. You should be f*cking sorry...
I don't have the time to waste responding to all the rest, Aris. Do you really think I'd be reading your own blog entries elsewhere to know size doesn't 'suddenly matter' to you? Get a grip. You've never mentioned 'size' before, here. And as far as I'm concerned, it's still a lame excuse. I'd respect your argument more if you stuck to the real issue - cultural. Turkish propserity is rising. It's corruption is barely worse than Greece's. The most popular (and often stated) reason for objection is that it is Muslim. Which reflects badly on EU nationalists like yourself.
The Trojan horse factor is one reason why I support Turkish entry. It's not the only one, but it is the main one.
lex - Chirac's in favour of Turkish EU membership. Perhaps you think that's strange, but it's true. Another factual error on your part. When are you going to apologise for ignorantly accusing the average Brit of being anti-Semitic?
#43
"Racism is simply biological prejudice, nationality is about culture, religion, mores, attitude and outlook... "
No, a person's nationality isn't about religion, it's not about mores, it's not about attitude and it's not about outlook.
I'm sure that TGA for example, would be very insulted if you told him that he must share the attitude, the mores, and the outlook of Hitler in order to be part of the same nation as Hitler was.
Nor do I feel that I have to share the opinions, outlooks, mores or attitudes of any other Greek in there in order to be considered Greek. I'm Greek only by the fact that I was raised by Greek parents in a Greek culture.
Nothing about opinions in that definition. Nothing about accepting or rejecting the widely held beliefs of that culture. Nothing about believing in the religion of people sharing that culture.
You are born and raised in your nation, same as you are born into your race. To insult a person because of their nation is same as to insult them because of their race.
Do you really think I'd be reading your own blog entries elsewhere to know size doesn't 'suddenly matter' to you?
You are definitely not obliged to follow my posts here or elsewhere, as long as you don't imply that I invent new criteria "suddenly".
Is it really so hard to grasp? You can't differentiate between racism and culturalism, other -isms...
Yes, I have a hard time understanding why hating e.g. all Jews is better than hating all blacks.
#44
No, a person's nationality isn't about religion, it's not about mores, it's not about attitude and it's not about outlook.
Wrong. Are you saying that a black immigrant to Greece can never be considered Greek? That their children couldn't be? What shite you do come out with. Unless, of course, you really believe that. Which makes your idea of 'nationality' merely biological, and I would say racist, and rather primitive.
From Chambers: race; the descendents of a common ancestor... nation; a body of people marked off by common descent, language, culture or historical tradition, whether or not bound by the defined territorial limits of a state; the people of a state...
In my book, race is a poor means of judging anyone, however it is patently true that you can assess the collective behaviour of people as nations. That is not to say that all individuals are the same, just that the collective actions of the whole are important, and indicative of the characteristics of the people's culture. This is all far too nuanced for you, I guess. You stick to your all-cultures-are-the-same, all-people-are-independent-thinkers-not-influenced-by-their-peers moral relativist bullshit.
Yes, I have a hard time understanding why hating e.g. all Jews is better than hating all blacks.
Are you trying to imply that I hate all members of a group, or a religion? If so, please explain why you think that is the case. There's a considerable difference between having a high or low regard for groups of individuals based on ethnicity, and having high or low regard for different cultures. I have no problem with anyone who is black, arab, Jewish, Welsh, Greek, English - unless their character offends me. The human hardware, as far as I'm concerned, and as far as I've experienced, is a neutral thing. It's the software that determines behaviours and attitudes. Religion is a software that can seriously fuck large groups of individuals, e.g. Wahabbist Islam. It's got nothing to do with race. It's culture, and nations, by and large, are defined by a shared culture.
#45
Yup, that Wahabbi OS is a two-bob piece a shit allright.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/07/2004 6:25 Comments ||
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#46
No, a person's nationality isn't about religion, it's not about mores, it's not about attitude and it's not about outlook. Wrong. Are you saying that a black immigrant to Greece can never be considered Greek? That their children couldn't be?
Their children might very well be if they were raised in the Greek culture. There's nothing biological about what I claim. Immigrants themselves may very well achieve Greek citizenship, and for me the willing participation in the functioning of the common society of men is more important than questions of what actual nation they belong to.
But we're not talking about citizenship, we're talking about nationality. And I will not be one to deny them their own heritage if they want to retain it by telling them stupid things like e.g. "you have to choose whether you are Albanian or Greek" -- which is similar to saying "you have to choose, whether you are Jewish or American". A man's "software" can partake in more than one one culture traditions, even in cases where he has only one citizenship.
a body of people marked off by common descent, language, culture or historical tradition, whether or not bound by the defined territorial limits of a state;
Hey, what do you know, no "opinions" or "attitudes" or "mores" in that definition. It doesn't say "a body of people sharing the same religion, opinions, attitudes, morals". Why, I wonder.
"In my book, race is a poor means of judging anyone, however it is patently true that you can assess the collective behaviour of people as nations."
But you are a racist (oh, sorry, a bigot -- big difference) if you take it from the collective to the personal, and start evaluating or *punishing* any person because of their nationality.
That is not to say that all individuals are the same, just that the collective actions of the whole are important, and indicative of the characteristics of the people's culture.
Yes, you can probably figure the mathetical *average* of the attitudes and mores of a nation.
But tell me, when you spoke about my supposed desire to collectively punish the Turks, did you imagine I would be so psychopathic and inhuman as to believe that you can punish a statistical abstraction without hurting individual innocents?
"Are you trying to imply that I hate all members of a group, or a religion?"
No, it's you who were trying to imply that about me. "Those Turks must obviously be reminded of their places", you said, when I said Turkey and the EU weren't ready for Turkey's membership at this time.
What exactly did you mean by that if not that I wanted to collectively punish them? How would you feel, if someone implied to you that your actual opinions meant "Those Jews must be taught their place."
#47
Now who's squirming? Squirming about individual words in a dictionary definition. We're not talking about citizenship, we're talking about nationality: squirming about the nature of the debate (you go from race to nationality to citizenship - what next?).
But you are a racist (oh, sorry, a bigot -- big difference) if you take it from the collective to the personal, and start evaluating or *punishing* any person because of their nationality.
You are the racist, Aris. We've established that. It is you who are obssessed with race. A Jew cannot be a Briton, eh? A Jew cannot be Greek either? YOU ALONE think that race is an obstacle to nationality. Stop projecting your own odious rasicm onto others, knobshite.
When a neighbouring country invades your own, will you approach each invading soldier to ask him how he feels about his actions? Or will you fight? If you refuse to fight, on the absurd principle that you're facing a statistical abstraction, not real people, your nation, your country will perish. You may think your transnationalist utopianism is high-minded. It's just a cop-out. Are you a pacifist? I think you must be. Let me know when you join the real world.
#48
Bulldog, you are illiterate. Just my above post said that a Jew *can* be an American (and thus a Jew can ofcourse also be a Greek or a Briton or whatever ofcourse) the same way that a person can feel both Albanian and Greek -- but you are obviously too dumb to read. I likewise said that race has nothing to do with nationality, but once again you, Bulldog, are too stupid to be able to read.
Keep on playing with yourself, I'm not your wank-toy.
And the thing about war is that it doesn't matter how the other person feels about you or whether they are nice or bad. That's why the division usually made is between soldiers and civilians, not nice enemies and bad enemies.
#50
If a Jew is an American, he, by nationality, is an American. He is not just an American citizen. It is you, moron, who is the illiterate here. Now shut the fuck up, you self-important freak. We've both wasted enough of Fred's bandwidth.
Keep on playing with yourself, I'm not your wank-toy.
#51
If a Jew is an American, he, by nationality, is an American
If a Jew is an American, then by nationality he might be both Jewish and American, depending on how he feels about the issue. A Jewish American friend of mine certainly feels "culturally Jewish" even though not religiously much of a believer. And he certainly also feels American.
You keep on failing to understand the point that "A man's "software" can partake in more than one one culture traditions". You want to limit people to only one nationality per force.
Fuzzy sets confusing your tiny brain?
Or are you gonna be claiming that "Jewish" is by necessity a reference to religion, and has no hint of a common national identity? Many people exist who are religiously atheist or agnostic but *nationally* (aka ethnically, aka culturally) Jews. Aka they were born and raised in Jewish culture, same way I was e.g. born and raised in Greek culture.
#52
What's it say on his passport, wank-toy? He may be racially Jewish, feel part of the Jewish nation but his loyalty, legally and when push-comes-to-shove will be to America, or he shouldn't be entitled to said passport (unless he's a dual national, which is a fuzzy area - safe to say he's not a citizen of "both America and The Jewish Nation"). Seriously, you're wasting Fred's bandwidth with your inane hair-splitting.
#53
Passports are about citizenships, boy. Different national minorities don't get different passports, boy.
Loyalty "legally" is about *citizenship*, boy. And refer to #46 about the willing participation in the structures of the state, which I already said is more important to me than what cultural tradition someone feels partake in his/her heritage.
Aka a citizen's loyalty and willing participation to the democratic state is more important than his nationality aka whether he feels "British" or "foreign" to you, according to your bizarre absurd criteria of holding the same "mores, attitudes, opinions" as you -- the criteria *you* have defined for nationality, and yet don't appear in either dictionary nor can appear in a passport.
If you could only read, this thread wouldn't have needed to exist at all, you know.
#54
Observe Bulldog "squirming" with his definitions: At #42 "nationality is about culture, religion, mores, attitude and outlook", ten posts later at #52 nationality is suddenly about what is written on a person's passport, and about a person's *legal* loyalty...
It's always bitterly amusing to see doublethink in motion. Bulldog holds both these definitions in his mind and he doesn't even see that they are as different as they can get.
#55
If only your racist pea-sized brain could comprehend that race does not 'aka' nationality, you wouldn't keep on making such an ass out of yourself, boy.
You think "boy" is an insult? LOL! As I said before, you have a lot to learn about English, you arrogant 'tard.
And refer to #46 about the willing participation in the structures of the state, which I already said is more important to me
Arrogant? ME? Pretentious? Moi? Do you think it matters what you think?! The fact is that (inconvenient though it may seem to you): your American friend's nationality is American.
Please re-read that until you comprehend. And then go and look up 'nationality' in an English dictionary.
I never said that race was "aka" nationality, I very clearly said that it was NOT. But as I said: you are illiterate.
"And then go and look up 'nationality' in an English dictionary."
www.dictionary.com : 2. A people having common origins or traditions and often constituting a nation.
My friend celebrates Hanukkah (common traditions, anyone?). Jews around Europe did the same pre WWII -- they were an interspersed Jewish nation far before there was a state that they could call their own.
And I assure you that my tone of voice would definitely make "boy" a very clear insult. In this case it says "little kid who pretends to be a man".
Ethnicity: "1. Ethnic character, background, or affiliation. 2. An ethnic group. "
Ethnicity: "an ethnic quality or affiliation resulting from racial OR CULTURAL ties;"
Ethnic: "Of or relating to a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, NATIONAL, RELIGIOUS, LINGUISTIC OR CULTURAL heritage."
"Being a member of a particular ethnic group, especially belonging to a NATIONAL GROUP BY HERITAGE OR CULTURE but residing outside its national boundaries: ethnic Hungarians living in northern Serbia. "
"A member of a particular ethnic group, especially one who maintains the LANGUAGE OR CUSTOMS of the group."
When people talk about the Kosovars being ethnic Albanians, I assure you they are not talking about some-sort of Albanian *race* dependent on blood-descent. They are talking about national characteristic like language and culture.
I know your own fucking language better than you know it yourself, Bulldog.
Read all the mention about customs and national characteristics above, little ignorant *boy*.
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/07/2004 19:16 Comments ||
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#65
Holy Bandwidth Batman!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/07/2004 19:17 Comments ||
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#66
I know your own fucking language better than you know it yourself, Bulldog.
It doesn't surprise me that you think that, Aris. Do you know the meaning of 'delusional'? Why don't you look it up, you ludicrously arrogant boneheaded dickwad.
From Chambers:
ethnic, concerning nations or races; pertaining to the customs, dress, food etc. of a particular racial group or cult; foreign; exotic; pertaining to a particular racial group; between or involving different racial groups...
#67
I "don't know shit", Bulldog? But even your own definition says about ethnic: as "concerning nations" and "pertaining to customs, dress, food, etc".
Ooh, is that culture and nationality, methinks? And yes incidentally the cultural and national characteristics that some racial groups may also exhibit. Cheerio.
And nonetheless you claimed that my usage of "ethnicity" in connection to "nationality" and "culture", means that I was saying that nationality and race were one and the same.
#68
And if you choose Chambers, here's a whole *essay* about the word ethnic from Chambers: http://www.worldwidewords.org/topicalwords/tw-eth1.htm
"By that time, it seems that for most people the word had lost the connection with religionâdisparaging in effect if not in intentâand had adopted a more neutral one of a person belonging to an IDENTIFIABLE CULTURE WITH COMMON RACIAL, SOCIAL, RELIGIOUS OR LINGUISTIC CHARACTERISTICS, very much the way we use it now when we speak formally."
Even with granting you choice of battlefields, still you failed.
#69
Insanity? This is like debating colours of the spectrum with someone who's colourblind. One of the blessings of the English language is that words have different meanings. Hence, nation can be applied to bothstate and race. If you can't deal with that, I suggest you stick to Greek. Refer to post #44. The word nation can mean "the people of a state", not just a race as you obstinately seem to think.
"Nation" can definitely not be applied to "Race", except in racist terminology (e.g. the people calling themselves "white nationalists"). They are using that phrase only because "racism" sounds too nasty nowadays.
#72
"Nation" can definitely not be applied to "Race"...
You've fallen off the edge of reason, Aris. I was arguing that nation need not mean race. Now you're denying there can be any association between nation and race? LOL
And where's the word 'nation' in your non-Chambers reference to the word 'ethnicity'?! It's a word used primarily in relation to race, just as I was saying... You should to go to bed.
#73
I never denied that ethnicity can mean nation. You refused to countenance the idea that nationality can be considered independent of race. Nation, however, is most commonly used as synonymous with state. Race, in that context, is an irrelevance.
#74
I was arguing that nation need not mean race. Now you're denying there can be any association between nation and race?
There can be association only in the sense there can be association between "nation" and "religion". They are not synonyms and can never be. "Race" same as "religion" is simply one of a characteristics that may mark the majority of a national (aka ethnic) group.
And where's the word 'nation' in your non-Chambers reference to the word 'ethnicity'?!
Well "CULTURE WITH COMMON RACIAL, SOCIAL, RELIGIOUS OR LINGUISTIC CHARACTERISTICS" does make it pretty close to a nation's description, don't you think, and pretty *far* from making it a mere synonym for "race" as you claimed.
If you want to sleep, nobody's stopping you. I'm a nightowl, myself.
#75
"I never denied that ethnicity can mean nation. "
I think that your objection to when I said "nationality (aka ethnicity)" is well noted, having launched a new row all on its own.
"You refused to countenance the idea that nationality can be considered independent of race."
When you asked me if the children of a black immigrant can be Greek, and I said yes ofcourse they can be Greek if they are raised in "Greek culture", I think I had made it quite clear that the culture you are raised in is much more important than the incident of your race.
In highschool I knew a black kid for example -- a *Greek* black kid. He was the adopted son (I believe, never asked him right out) of a Greek couple who had lived in Zair for a very long time. Having raised by Greeks, he was undeniably Greek, regardless of race.
Now that I've put it in the specific rather than the general, will you get it?
Or will you say that the kid was "ethnically Zairian" or some foolishness like that, even though we was raised as Greek?
#76
"I never denied that ethnicity can mean nation. "
I think that your objection to when I said "nationality (aka ethnicity)" is well noted, having launched a new row all on its own.
"You refused to countenance the idea that nationality can be considered independent of race."
When you asked me if the children of a black immigrant can be Greek, and I said yes ofcourse they can be Greek if they are raised in "Greek culture", I think I had made it quite clear that the culture you are raised in is much more important than the incident of your race.
In highschool I knew a black kid for example -- a *Greek* black kid. He was the adopted son (I believe, never asked him right out) of a Greek couple who had lived in Zair for a very long time. Having raised by Greeks, he was undeniably Greek, regardless of race.
Now that I've put it in the specific rather than the general, will you get it?
Or will you say that the kid was "ethnically Zairian" or some foolishness like that, even though we was raised as Greek?
EFL
The government of Charles de Gaulle held hundreds of foreigners, including at least three Britons, in an internment camp near Toulouse for up to four years after the second world war, according to secret documents.
The papers, part of a cache of 12,000 photocopied illegally by an Austrian-born Jew, reveal the extent to which French officials collaborated with their fleeing Nazi occupiers even as their country was being liberated. They also show that, when the war was over, France went to extraordinary lengths to hide as much evidence of that collaboration as possible.
The documents are in a mass of registers, telegrams and manifests which Kurt Werner Schaechter, an 84-year-old retired businessman, copied from the Toulouse office of France's national archives in 1991. They are uniquely precious: under a 1979 law most of France's wartime archives are sealed for between 60 and 150 years after they were written.
Can't allow messy paperwork to interfere with the mythology of the Resistance.
#2
Doesn't surprise me, Zen, few people in Europe collaborated as openly and freely as the French during the war.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/05/2004 1:30 Comments ||
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#3
A few reamarks
1) Of course France retained foreigners in concentration camps. To begin with there were thousands of Russans who had fought in the German Army and, in revenge of the STO, many, many Germans who were kept for work in French farms.
And for the three Britons, if they were from Lord Haw Haw kind they should thank the Lord for not having being shot on the spot (or handed to the British)
2) "The stain of a codwardly submission will be never erased. The poison of havoing surrendered will sap the efforts of future generation" This Clausewitz but is quoted by Hitler in Mein Kampf, and that is why Hitler was very careful in proposing "acceptable" cease-fire conditions in 1940 in order to get having the French government to surrender instead of going into exile. De Gaulle who had read Clausewitz (and probably Mein kampf too) knew about the poisoning effect and told in the 60s: "I don't care about truth, I care about allowing France to reraise". Ie by making believe to the French, that the defeat and collaboration involved uniquely an illegimate governùmant 5vichy) and that they were unananimously in the Resistance he wanted them to regain their self pride and trust in themselves.
3) If the French had collaborated so openly and freely then there wouln't have been any Jews
left. Their survival rate was higher than in any other country except for Denmark.
4) Charles De Gaulle resigned in January 1946 and was succeeded by people who were hostile to him so
attributing to "De Gaulle's government" a captivity who extended into 1948-1949 seems quite abusive to me.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/05/2004 3:44 Comments ||
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#6
I've never been one to let the French off the hook, but JFM is quite right.
The French had every right to hold collaborators after the war, that is not an issue.
Worse, this article misleadingly associates unrelated events in an attempt to blame deGaulle for events that occurred under the nazi occupation or after he left office.
The article emphasizes, for example, that Sumner Kirby and the other foreigners were "transported" in "June," (which had to be in 1944 from context) and even that Kirby was believed to have died in Dachau. It pointedly fails to mention that these events occurred under the auspices of the Germans, not deGaulle and the Free French. In fact it tries to create the opposite impression. Juxtaposing the final transfer with a reference to deGaulle's victory parade, that the parade occurred first, and failing to mention that the camp was still under German control at that time, certainly invites the conclusion that deGaulle was somehow responsible. This is an outrageous slander, worthy of the nazi's own Joseph Goebbels, ironically enough.
#7
This is from Al Guardian and the obvious intention is to accuse the allies of complicity in the deportations to Germany, an absolute absurdity, but one which obviously follows from the article's references to deportations occurring after liberation, as though this were a whole and complete process from day one.
#8
I see that Al Guardian is still running the libelous red herring about GWB's grandfather assisting the nazi's rise to power. They also have a lurid and emotional article about the mass suffering in Gaza, one that natually, blames Israel alone for it.
As far as I am concerned, the Guardian staff and editors are war criminals under the Goebbels/Streicher precedent and should be treated accordingly.
#9
Might it be...ummm...politic of the Guardian to post these documents on the internet where they can be minutely examined by...oh,I don't know...freaking everybody? Old photocopies of old archival docs... sound familiar, anyone?
Not to compare a collection of 12,000 documents in an official archive with six documents of mysterious origin, but these are incindiary charges, and the Guardian has just as much a predisposition as CBS to give credance where their bias takes them.
#10
Sgt. Mom-
The heck with the documents - Alistair Horne's "The Fall Of The Third Republic" (40 years old but still an incredible work) should convince anyone that the French are no longer to be trusted. The rot set in after the Bourbon restoration, and it's been downhill since.
Mike
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
10/05/2004 7:46 Comments ||
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#11
#4 Mark - quite a few, I would suspect.
Especially in the government.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/05/2004 9:54 Comments ||
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#12
I think everyone agrees that "The Guardian" is pro-Muslim and not to be trusted. I am with AC, I am very skeptical of the timing, regarding the article release.
Some are angry about what the French did in the WWII era and some are angry about what the French did in this current Iraq war.
But, here is what I will be forever angry(understatement) at the French. In fact, I will forget it as long as I live.
The fact that the French DID NOT allow Reagan to fly over their country to bomb Lybia. The French did not have to provide troops, jets, logistics, intelligence, etc. Not a damn thing. Just flyover. If memory serves me right, I believe we lost a jet as a result of the French not allowing flyover. The French govt. always have and will be the lowest SCUM on earth. What will it take to replace these morons with Germany on the security council or better yet, abolishing the Useless Nations?
#13
#3 JFM
I suppose these were friends of Lord Haw Haw? If so why were they transported to concentration camps?
On June 26 the commandant informed the prefecture that he had four American "guests": Moore Sumner Kirby, born in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania in 1895; Herbert Lespinasse, Stamford, 1884; Gerald McLanghin, Detroit, 1898; and James Smith, Los Angeles, 1904.
Sumner Kirby is known to have died in the Leau concentration camp near Bernberg, Germany, on April 7 1945.
Charles De Gaulle resigned in January 1946 and was succeeded by people who were hostile to him so attributing to "De Gaulle's government"
So why did they continue his work? Anyway they were still Frenchmen
This is ridiculous. June 26, 1944 the Allies wee still struggling in the bocage and the only liberated part of France was the peninsula of Cotentin (that thing who points towards England west of Omaha beach). Around 1 percent of French soil. The guy who wrote the letter was on the other 99% and was taking his orders from Vichy not from De Gaulle.
#1
"The Michigan Republican Party wants filmmaker Michael Moore prosecuted for giving college students packets of underwear and noodles in return for their promise to vote."
Michael Moore has been passing out underwear????? Uh... no, I don't want to ask.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/05/2004 20:52 Comments ||
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#2
these may be Clinton's boxers he contributed to charity for tax deductions...typical that Moore would have/hold/sniff them
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 20:59 Comments ||
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#3
Frank.... Oh, GAAAAK!
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/05/2004 21:17 Comments ||
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#4
Put a tent stake in his drawers and you probably got the equivalent of a 2 bedroom apartment. Tough to get by the stench though.
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 21:26 Comments ||
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#6
D'ya think maybe he-- **SHUDDER**
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/05/2004 21:35 Comments ||
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#7
Ohhh, gawd... (brief pause while I run to throw up in the bathroom)
Thanks for that perfectly sick-making suggestion. I just ate dinner, too. What a waste.
A Canadian submarine sent a distress signal from the North Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Ireland, the British navy said, adding that a military rescue operation was under way. A helicopter left the Royal Air Force's Prestwick base in Scotland, and a Nimrod long-range sea patrol plane was being dispatched to the Chicoutimi submarine, located 100 nautical miles (180 kilometers) northwest of Ireland, the navy spokesman told AFP. "We are responding and assisting," he said, without elaborating on the submarine's problem. "I can say no more"
seriously, good luck lads, our prayers are with you
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 1:11:14 PM ||
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Navy spokesman Mike Bonin told Canadian Press that a few people among the crew of 57 aboard suffered some smoke inhalation but were okay.
âEverybody on board is safe,â Mr. Bonin said in an interview. âThere was a small fire on board. It was quickly put out. The sub has surfaced and is awaiting a tug to take it back to somewhere along the European coast.â
The submarine which was purchased by Ottawa by the British Military of Defence. It joined Canada's navy fleet on Oct. 1. The spokesman said the sub radioed for assistance about 200 kilometres west of the London area, saying it had lost power, "believed to be the result of a fire on board." "That's about as much on the actual incident as I've got but we can tell you that there is assistance obviously being provided with air and sea assets. Three U.K.-based navy vessels are headed to the scene and are expected to arrive at the site by Wednesday, the spokesman said. They include RFA Waveknight, HMS Montrose and HMS Marlborough. The Royal Navy and Maritime Coast guard agency tugs are being made ready as well.
A Nimrod aircraft and a helicopter has also been launched to assist with communications with the submarine."There is contact with the vessel," the MOD spokesman said. "They're obviously treating this as a serious naval matter."
Posted by: Steve ||
10/05/2004 13:20 Comments ||
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#2
Excerpt From CBC:
Military officials in Halifax said a fire broke out on HMCS Chicoutimi about 425 kilometres west of Ireland, but has since been extinguished.
Three submariners inhaled fumes, but there were no serious injuries, said Halifax-based military spokesman Mike Bonin.
"Everybody on board is safe," Bonin said in an interview with the Canadian Press. "There was a small fire on board. It was quickly put out. The sub has surfaced and is awaiting a tug to take it back to somewhere along the European coast."
Submariners are usually inhaling fumes. Unless they have chunk pumps, "sanitation" tanks vent inboard after blowing the contents to sea. Ummmm, yummy. Pass a Snickers Bar please. :^)
A group of protestors stormed and then ransacked a Bush-Cheney headquarters building in Orlando, Fla., Tuesday, according to Local 6 News. Local 6 News reported that several people from the group of 100 Orlando protestors face possible assault charges after the group forced their way inside the Republican headquarters office. While in the building, some of the protestors drew horns and a mustache on a poster of President George W. Bush and poured piles of letters in the office, according to the report. "We told them to leave, they broke the law," Republican headquarters volunteer Mike Broom said.
Two protestors received minor injuries when the crowd stormed the building, including a Republican volunteer. One of the protestors said she wanted to send a message. "We want to send a clear message to Bush, we want him to take his hands off our overtime pay," protestor Esmeralda Heuilar said. Local 6 News learned that most of the protestors were from the AFL-CIO and were taking part in one of 20 other coordinated protests around the country. A spokesperson with the AFL-CIO told Local 6 News that the Orlando protest did not go as planned. A protest similar to Orlando's demonstration was held at a Bush-Cheney office in Miami at the same approximate time, Local 6 News reported.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/05/2004 10:07:24 PM ||
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#1
Jeez... the election is still a month away; how many more times are we going to be treated to the sight of Democratic thugs trashing Republican campaign headquarters? Are people going to get killed before this is over?
I'm fed up with Democrats. I'm fed up with their hatred. I'm fed up with their ignorance, their bigotry, their stupidity and their malice.
And I'm starting to feel for them what they're apparently so eager to demonstrate they feel for me.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/05/2004 22:26 Comments ||
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#2
lock n load?
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 22:30 Comments ||
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#3
Close. Getting close. But not quite yet...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/05/2004 22:31 Comments ||
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#4
A spokesperson with the AFL-CIO told Local 6 News that the Orlando protest did not go as planned.
Yeah. Nobody got killed and we couldn't get the fire started.
#8
Corrupt organization. Well, that's exactly what the Democratic Party is-- to the core. The party is a mob of ignorant bozos and goons, led by cynical, manipulative, corrupt demagogues, and backed up by a corrupt, parasitic ideology promulgated by effete academics and funded by fat cats.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/05/2004 22:42 Comments ||
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#9
Brownshirts. They use Nazi tactics to call the conservatives nazis.
Breaking and entering, shootings, burned grass. All with the intent to deny people their right of free speech.
Looks like they graduated from ripping Bush/Cheney posters from 3 year old girls....
And yes, I think is was an intentional act by the AFL-CIO and the DNC. Once might be an accident, twice a coicidence(sp?), but thrice is intentional.
#11
The Democrat Brownshirts make a good case for compulsory concealed carry. They wouldn't be so bold if their intended victims could put one between their beady eyes.
#12
Funny that they call Republicans Nazi, but they use Nazi tactics. This, the shooting, and the buring lawn have me kind of nervous about this election. I am taking Wed-Fri after the off and watch the goings on. Bet you that at least one LLL tries to pull something stupid. I work with a bunch of them and they are less than confident of a Kerry victory. Also the tone of the banter has taken a darker hue since Kerry sunk in the polls.
#13
Cyber Sarge, can you enlighten me on how the overtime pay change will affect union workers. These are all AFL-CIO people who get paid according to what they negotiate with the companies that they work for. The overtime pay change may or may not have an effect on a salaried position, like mine, but why would hourly folks be storming the Bastille? - Frankly, anytime my compensation is impacted I weigh all my options and adjust accordingly. I don't really need or appreciate the actions of thses folks.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/06/2004 3:18 Comments ||
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#14
Keep cool, boys. Publicize-- publicize and shame. Leave the bully-boy stuff to the other side. If handled and publicized properly, these incidents could be the nail in Kerry's coffin.
"After watching John Edwards win tonight's Vice Presidential debate against Dick Cheney, I've concluded that only by electing John Edwards and John Kerry can America wipe clean the deep stain of Halliburton and rid the country of evil Republicans once and for all. Kerry and Edwards are America's team."
I considered adopting a more partisan stance, but thought the better of it; the "moderate" pose I struck is a lot better, don'tcha think?
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/05/2004 18:38 Comments ||
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#4
we need to be polite :-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 18:40 Comments ||
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#5
No no no! We all have to send the exact same message:
Edwards beat Cheney in the greatestest super-duper debate rout EVER! Kerry's victory is assured! Finally, on that glorious day, the Democratic Party will have its revenge, and we can finally round up those no-good evil Republicans and conservatives, and force them into re-education camps, and do away with those who oppose the NEW ORDER..
#9
Already had one media response thanking me for my feedback :-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 19:51 Comments ||
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#10
BTW - SPOD - Kern County = Randsburg? Too fitting?
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 19:52 Comments ||
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#11
The debate confirmed my suspicions. We all know the truth. We all know whose ox is being gored. I donât have to tell you how flabbergasted I was when I heard him say what he said. The American people are too wise for the wool to be pulled over our eyes anymore. Thatâs all I have to say.
Of coulse this will be taken as an opinion that Edwards won. Remember, when they were counting votes in Florida, that Palm Beach Election Judge said he was looking into his heart to find out who the ballot was cast for...
#17
I'm not watching, either. I notice Bush shares on www.intrade.com are up about two points since before the start of the debate.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/05/2004 21:56 Comments ||
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#18
LOL Frank that highway through the Kern river canyon didn't exist when they moved it, hell automobiles didn't exist. I suggest we force about a case of beer into Edwards and put him in a car and send him down that road in the dark and roll bolders at him.
#19
Ouch! Cheney skewered Edwards with the 'I'm president of the senate and am there every tuesday session and the first time I've met you is today on this stage'... (I think I got that right...)
#20
LOL Sock Puppet - you've been there, I can tell...
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 22:06 Comments ||
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#21
article is spot on. MSM keeps giving bad information and driving their viewers to the blogs. They seem to be clueless how much credibility they've lost by lying to their viewers. Using forged docs and bad statistical data will only hasten their demise.
An external review of how CBS News came to use disputed documents in a report on President Bush's military record will probably not be concluded until after the November election so as not to interfere with the Kerry's chances presidential race, a top executive said on Tuesday. Les Moonves, the co-president of CBS parent company Viacom, told an analyst meeting that the review of the CBS "60 Minutes II" report being done by former Attorney General Dick Thornburgh and retired Associated Press chief Louis Boccardi had no timetable for completion. But he said he did not want it to interfere with the DNC's chances in the Nov. 2 election. "Obviously, it should be done probably after the election is over so that When Kerry's camp is implicated the election is a done deal and its to late it doesn't affect what's going on," he told a Goldman Sachs media conference in New York. A CBS spokeswoman had no immediate comment on the statement. But she pointed out that when CBS News President Andrew Heyward named Boccardi and Thornburgh to conduct the investigation of the Sept. 8 report, he said he hoped it would be completed in weeks rather than months. 12 weeks or three months... whats the difference?
The CBS report alleged that Bush had received special treatment while serving in he Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War. The report also produced documents purportedly written by Bush's Guard commander complaining that he was pressured to "sugar coat" Bush's record -- but the man who gave the documents to CBS later admitted that he lied about its origins and serious questions have been raised over their authenticity. There is some question on weather the memo's came from the DNC/Kerry campaign.
#4
They'll probably be done right around the time Dan Rather signs off for the last time. ("Spring" was as specific as I've heard for that joyous occasion.)
Seriously, I believe after retiring Gunga Dan will continue in a job (paying this time) as a media consultant to the DNC
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 18:43 Comments ||
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#9
If the information would interfere with presidential race then not refering it is interfering too. Since the conclusions are supposed to be right and truth, CBS is supporting or hiding a lie.
HT - Drudge
An unknown suspect fired several shots into the Bearden office of the Bush/Cheney re-election campaign Tuesday morning. According to Knoxville Police Department officers on the scene Tuesday, it is believed that the two separate shots were fired from a car sometime between 6:30 am and 7:15 am. One shot shattered the glass in the front door and the other cracked the glass in another of the front doors. There were no witnesses to the shooting. A customer at a nearby dry cleaning store noticed that shattered glass on the sidewalk in front of the headquarters and called police.
Volunteers and staffers at the campaign office say they have no clues as to who might have committed the crime. However, they add that the shooting makes them even more enthusiastic and energized about working for their candidates. "If I have to sleep here (at the campaign office) now, that's what I'll do," says volunteer Suzanne Dewar. In an unexpected twist, a bank directly across the street from the headquarters was robbed just as KPD officers were busy investigating at the scene of the shooting
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 11:56:05 AM ||
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#1
Sounds like it might have a diversion to rob the bank.
#8
I live in Knoxville. Will keep you posted on anything else that unfolds. The shooting into the Bush/Cheney headquarters was between 6:30 and 7:00 a.m--not exactly banking hours here. This would be a stupid Darwin move on the part of bank robbers since the FBI and KPD were just across the street. East Tennessee is strongly Republican. Middle Tennessee and West Tennessee tend towards Democrat. I have not heard anything about the status of the bank robbers.
Yet another another RB'er livin' in God's Country. God bless American...and Go Vols!
Spot on w/ analysis of E. TN being Republican. Nashville tends to lean Demo though I suspect it's because there's more Yankees here now than when Sherman passed through. Memphis is a socialist enclave. Rural W. TN seems to be shifting gradually away from Demos from my limited, unscientific perspective.
#21
Was going to go get my Bush-Cheney signs tomorrow. When I called a couple of days ago they were out. Guess I'd better go there packing since TN is a CCW state. Things do make sense in TN.
IOLA: We will see about the Dawgs come Saturday. Gol VOLS.
#22
The local news is coming in on the bank robbery. Sounds like two different coincidental incidents. The bank robbery was about 4 hours later than the headquarters shooting. Police do have bullet fragments from the headquarters shooting. Depending upon what kind of round they were shooting they may or may not be able to determine ballistics.
#27
Hillbilly, here in East Tennessee (tri cities) Bush is the man as well. We do see a few Kerry/Edwards signs but they are mostly in Johnson City where ETSU is. I read a Time Magazine article today in the Dr. office about the President. The interviewer came to the conclusion that the President sees things in black and white with almost no greys and that's why people either really like him or really hate him. This sounds like the work of the really hate crowd. By the way, War Eagle. I only got killed once at the Battle of Franklin this past weekend. 12,000 reenactors. Whoooboy!!
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
10/05/2004 18:30 Comments ||
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#28
I can help - I speak Jive:
Laughing Out Loud . Rolling On The Floor Laughing My ass Off
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 18:34 Comments ||
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#29
Thanks Frank G. I got called a troll for one my comments on one of the postings. Had to look it up on the net to figure out what it meant. Reminds me of a time that I said something to someone about 35 years ago in Chattanooga--one of those Freudian slips--and the man said "I will overlook your scatological remark." Did not respond because I did not know what it meant. Didn't realize I was insulted until I got home and looked it up in the dictionary. Sometimes it is good to be a little ignorant.
#32
Was admiring a Ktec 40 at my favorite botique the other day. I picked up a bumper sticker that says: Flush the Johns, Vote W. November 2004. A little concerned about putting it on my car because the "end justifies the means vandals."
#36
lightning bolt through the head conveys the consequences nicely, neh?
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 22:27 Comments ||
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#37
A follow-up on this (courtesy Prof. Glenn). The capper:
Knox County Democratic chairman Jim Gray called the attack "despicable."
"I can't imagine what kind of thinking inspired it or maybe what amount of alcohol," Gray said. "My second thought is, maybe it was just someone who got tired of their darn Kerry signs being stolen."
Even when trying to be gracious, the 'moonbat' shows...
#38
Have not heard of read about any incidents of
darn Kerry signs being stolen. I'm not sure who around here would want them. Perhaps Mr. Gray's statement was motivated by alcohol--I say a lot things under the influence.
#41
Instpundit=Glenn Reynolds? No, I have not seen him. I would not know him to see him. He is a professor in the UTK Law School. A few years ago he did a Constitutional analysis of the 2nd Amendment. Concluded it guarantees an individual the right to bear arms.
Dem vp hopeful John Edwards cut to the chase last night on ABCNEWS NIGHTLINE:
ABC'S BOB WOODRUFF: "He has avoided the kind of negative attacks that can make national news, although recently, he has stepped up his rhetoric."
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC) (clip of a speech): "I'd say if you live in the United States of America and you vote for George Bush, you've lost your mind."
WOODRUFF: "There's been criticism that you have been too soft."
EDWARDS: "Do I seem soft to you?"
END
Tue Oct 05 2004 08:57:47 ET
Crazy, I'm so Crazy...lu lu lu la la la....
Posted by: BigEd ||
10/05/2004 11:05:41 AM ||
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#1
LOL! What next? Stoopid? Lefties love the people, don't they...
#4
stoopid comment if he's wants to pull the large numbers of dems and centrists who won't vote sKerry but might have considered (now past tense) voting for him.
#5
You can't make this stuff up. With all the goofy things Kerry himself says, he also has his sister, daughters, wife, the DNC, CBS, Michael Moore, pretty much everyone under the sun, adding to the chorus of insanity coming from the Donk side. Unbelievable. Talk about wanting to "win the hearts and minds." Kerry and his crew are their own worst enemies. You can't even bring up a vast right-wing conspiracy with these loons.
#6
nada - sounds like the makings of a good TV ad. I can see it now: a circus theme with Kerry as the ringmaster and all the Donks' Big Tent clowns and freaks marching round in a circle. Animated would probably be best. South Park style.
#11
"You just think that because of the cantaloupe."
What are some other good ones? Hmm.
"I'm not crazy, I've just been in a bad mood the last ten years."
Although thinking about the situation, I suspect that Breck Girl is just jealous, because there's no medication he can take to become sane. He's an attorniopath and there's nothing that can be done about it.
#16
A favorite cartoon of mine, from the old Omni:
A maniacal character in a white lab coat is menacing another guy in a lab coat, the latter is chained to the wall. The maniac is saying, "Mad?Me? mad? Why yes, I'm mad, but I HAVE TENURE!"
#1
"But I can do a better job of protecting America's security because the test that I was talking about was a test of legitimacy, not just in the globe, but elsewhere.â
John Kerry made a speech before an audience in New Hampshire. This is significant. In 1961, in New Hampshire, Betty and Barney Hill, local residents, claimed to have been taken aboard a UFO. Perhaps the aliens, who âabductedâ Betty and Barney Hill, are the âelsewheresâ that John Kerry is talking about. Under hypnosis Betty Hill drew a map she claimed the alien had showed her. In an issue of âAstronomyâ Magazine in 1976 titled, "The Zeta Reticuli Incident" proported to claim the aliens were from a star called Zeta Reticuli. This star is only visible from the southern hemisphere, and is 18 light-years away.
John Kerry again has gone ahead of the curve with interstellar diplomacy.
Posted by: ed ||
10/05/2004 11:06 Comments ||
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#3
This is a sKerry idea. The movie "Alien" took place in the Zeta II Reticuli system. I don' want no stinkin' facehuggers dictating American foreign policy.
John Kerry for President
Commercial, Non-Union
Genre - Standard Spot
Format - Digital Video
Union Status - Non-Union
Roles: US ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL / Male or Female / All Ethnicities / All Ages
Men and women of the Armed Forces (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, etc.) that served in Iraq, are voting for John Kerry, and are willing and able to be interviewed on camera about why they are voting for Kerry.
*Audition is October 6th, 6pm-9pm, at the Democratic Headquarters in Santa Monica, CA. 900 Wilshire Blvd, Santa Monica, CA 90401.
Wardrobe: casual or uniform
Casting Company - McBride Casting
Casting Dates Wed. 10/6/04
Big supporter of unions, unless you're working for him.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/05/2004 8:56:38 AM ||
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A few words from the military on the subject:
Legal restrictions are placed upon Department of Defense personnel because they are public servants. Also, there is a long-standing DoD policy that DoD personnel acting in their official capacity may not engage in activities that associate DoD with any partisan political campaign or election, candidate, cause or issue.
Under the provisions of Army Regulation 600-20, paragraph 5-3, a Soldier on active duty may not participate in partisan political management, campaigns, or conventions, including the solicitation of votes or political contributions for a particular candidate or issue.
The Army Materiel Command Web site states while on active duty, a Soldier may do the following:
1. Register, vote, and express a personal opinion on political candidates and issues as a private citizen, but not as a representative of the Armed Forces;
2. Promote and encourage other Soldiers to exercise their voting franchise so long as it does not constitute an attempt to influence or interfere with the outcome of an election;
3. Join a political club and attend its meetings when not in uniform;
4. Serve as an election official if such service is not as a representative of a partisan political party, does not interfere with military duties, is performed while out of uniform, and has the approval of the installation commander;
5. Sign a petition for specific legislative action or a petition to place a candidate's name on an official election ballot so long as the signing does not obligate the Soldier to engage in partisan political activity and is done as a private citizen and not as a representative of the Armed Forces;
6. Write a letter to the editor of a newspaper expressing the Soldier's personal views on public issues or political candidates, if such action is not part of an organized letter-writing campaign or concerted solicitation of votes for or against a political party or partisan political cause or candidate;
7. Make monetary contributions to a political organization, party or committee favoring a particular candidate or slate of candidates subject to statutory dollar limitations;
8. Display a political sticker on the Soldier's private vehicle.
#2
An interesting commericial this is going to make. Winter Soldier II? I don't think it will be too hard to round up some Bay Area vets that don't like the President. Are they trying to get the military vote? If so this aint the way to go about it. Should be entertaining at least. Maybe I should go down there and try out?
#3
RN, all true but I'll bet the Kerry/Edwards stickers are few and far between on any military base. Kerry is goading soldiers to go on camera and express a political view. Probably in hopes that someone will take action against the individual. Then they (K/E) would swoop in and cry "DISENFRANCHISEMENT, HALIBURTON, RACISIM" to make some cheap political points. I wonder if ANSWER or MoveOn are behind this?
#4
CS...I'm living on one post, working on another and my Son is serving at a Camp. Agreed there are few Kerry stickers...and they are out numbered by W stickers.
Posted by: ed ||
10/05/2004 10:46 Comments ||
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#7
Yes, but the UCMJ is clear, as RN has pointed out, there are existing regulations -
Art. 92. Failure to obey order or regulation
Any person subject to this chapter whoâ
(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;
(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by a member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or
(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
with a special twist for any commissioned officer -
Art. 88. Contempt toward officials
Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
In other words an 'officer' appearing in such a commerical has already decided to end his/her carrer in the military. Court martial is really not necessary, just a letter of admonishment in the personnel file for every review board to read, quick passovers for promotion, and deadend assignments.
Posted by: Don ||
10/05/2004 11:00 Comments ||
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#8
Active duty can rant all they want about how you hate Bush/Haliburton/Enron/etc but you have to do that as a private citizen. You can't be identified as a soldier or wear a uniform (or part of) when you make the political statement. I am retired so I can bad mouth Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Santa Claus, or God just so I use the tag 'Retired' after my name. This sounds a awful lot like Kerry is baiting some poor smuck to appear on camera as anti-Bush soldier. And make it appear as he/she represents the Military as a whole. A line such as: "Many people in my unit feel this way, but are afraid to come forward." or something like that will do the trick. I still contend that MoveOn or ANSWER are behind this.
#9
Might get some Guard or Reserve people who have seperated. If they have fully completed their commitment, I'd say they would be free to do this. They better not be in uniform. Of course, silly rules don't apply to Democrats.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/05/2004 11:28 Comments ||
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#10
dems are stoopid. Not just, as already noted: Wardrobe: casual or uniform but...oh please, oh please... let's find a guy name "John Smith" whose never served in the military to show up at the casting call and pretend that he did. *snicker*
#11
hmmm... here's a question: If someone has served in Iraq - what is the time period that they are considered "active reserve" or whatever it's called.
#15
D'oh - tried to link to adjacent photo....damn..sorry
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 12:02 Comments ||
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#16
2b, No you are not allowed to give a statement in uniform. Makes no differnce if you are activated or not, it still against the UCMJ. So whomever is running this casting call is openly inviting soldiers to disobey the UCMJ. This could and should backfire on the Kerry folks.
#17
So when Kerry appeared before congress in uniform and lied about 'war crimes' it was a violation of the UCMJ since he was still in the Navy (inactive)?
#18
CF - I was just gonna say that issue with the UCMJ might be lost on the Kerry Krowd
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 12:15 Comments ||
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#19
The Marine Corps Times in this issue, had a poll of Active duty/guard/reserves of who they would vote for Prez. Bush won - 73% to 18% for Kerry. I wonder if the DNC will find any of that 18%. You can pull up the issue if you want. It was Armed Service wide. Those who have just served in Iraq are even more strongly for W then those who've not deployed in the past 2 yrs. If the mil thinks W is the man I wonder what the problem is w/the rest of the country.
#20
It also affects US Government employees. A week ago the HRO people sent out something that I think was called the Hatching Act or some such, that pretty much says the same thing.
#21
add seems to be to be a waste of money if the Bush campaign counters with an add that highlights this: The Marine Corps Times in this issue, had a poll of Active duty/guard/reserves of who they would vote for Prez. Bush won - 73% to 18% for Kerry.
#22
2b, I don't think they are trying to capture the Military vote as they are trying to grab those voters who would be swayed by an anti-Bush ad with military people in it. As if to say: "See the military is against the President." Trust me they will find some wide-eyed kid who will explain he joined the military to escape poverty and never ever wanted to go to war, especially an illegal and unilateral one such as Iraq. He/she will also rant about how "most" of the troops hate Bush and think his is "selected not elected."
#23
Prior and during the Iraq War (even today), it wasn't difficult to find some military folk to whine that they didn't join the military to go to war...they joined to get the benefits.
I'm sure they probably have Kerry stickers and would be willing to compromise their sorry asses with the hopes that the ACLU or a blue state congressman will come to their rescue.
Animal Slaughter
Another excerpt from the best-selling Unfit For Command:
George Bates, an officer in Coastal Division 11, participated in numerous operations with Kerry from January 1969 through March 1969. In Bate's view, Kerry was a coward who overreacted with deadly force to protect himself when he felt threatened. Bates, a retired Navy captain, believed that Kerry treated the South vietnamese in an almost criminal manner.
Bates is haunted by a particular patrol with Kerry on the Song Bo De River in the first part of 1969. With Kerry in the lead, the boats approached a small hamlet with three to four grass huts. Pigs and chickens were milling around peacefully. As the boats drew closer, the villagers fled. There were no political symbols or flags in evidence in the tiny village. It was obvious to Bates that existing policies, decency, and good sense required the boats to simply move on.
Instead, Kerry beached his boat directly in the small settlement. Upon his command, the numerous small animals were slaughtered by heavy-caliber machine guns. Acting more like a pirate than a naval offcer, Kerry diembarked and ran around with a Zippo lighter, burning up the entire hamlet.
Bates has never forgotten Kerry's actions and was appalled by the complete hypocrisy of Kerry's quick shift to the role of a peace activist condemning war crimes upon his return. Even today, Bates describes Kerry as a man without a conscience.
HEY: It doesn't look like they're asking for REAL service people to audition--they're just looking for run-of-the-mill actors for the t.v. commercial.
It's all pretend. It's a ROLE (see the casting call link):
" Men and women of the Armed Forces (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, etc.) that served in Iraq, are voting for John Kerry, and are willing and able to be interviewed on camera about why they are voting for Kerry."
It looks like those are the lines (in voiceover) from the commercial itself. The actors will choose a uniform (which they will have to purchase, or which will be purchased for them) and will stand there looking serious (probably) while the viewer at home hears the voiceover--THUS giving the IMPRESSION that the people they see are actually real soldiers. If there are lines from the "soldiers," those lines would be scripted for them in advance. It's all an act. Trust me--with the $$$ it takes to produce and market even a 15-second spot, they won't leave anything to chance. The idea is to create a sense that the military is DIVIDED--Bush lied, people died. You know the mantra.
The Employment Situation, September 2004 Oct. 8, 2004 8:30 am
[ this is the big one -- not only the last payroll estimate before the election but also, the BLS will have calculated some end of FY 2004 adjustments which could renormalize the payroll figures -- it may report that payrolls, say were drastically underestimated the past year or, of course, it may not --- if the numbers are good the dems usual "suspicious timing" meme will be even more of a stretch than usual because this statistical adjustment has been done annually for a decade now at the end of the first full week of the FY]
these reports below probably don't matter diddly squat
U.S. Import and Export Price Indexes, September 2004 Oct. 14 8:30 am
Producer Price Indexes, September 2004 Oct. 15 8:30 am
Consumer Price Index, September 2004 Oct. 19 8:30 am
Real Earnings, September 2004 Oct. 19 8:30 am
Regional and State Employment and Unemployment, September 2004 Oct. 22 10:00 am
Employment Cost Index, September 2004 Oct. 29 8:30 am
Posted by: mhw ||
10/05/2004 8:45:58 AM ||
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During August, Personal income increased by 0.4 percent
Here is the main article
Gross domestic product -- total economic output -- was expected to grow 4.3 percent in 2004 and 3.7 percent in 2005, said a panel of 38 forecasters in the National Association of Business Economists (NABE).
"After a soft patch in the spring quarter the economy appeared to find firmer footing this summer," NABE president Duncan Meldrum said.
"Fortunately, our panel expects the expansion to gain additional traction over the second half of this year and advance at a solid pace in 2005," Meldrum said.
Asked how they might adjust their forecasts, 82 percent of the economists they would make no change for a win by Bush and 58 percent said no change for a win by his Democratic challenger.
Looks like the Economy is picking up right on time. Of interest is that the economists see Bush as a lock (82%) that the economy will grow - but Kerry barely manages a bit more than half (58%). These are the Pros, guys whose livelihood depend on these reports and they factor in oil prices and terrorism as well. I wonder how Kerry will spin this?
Posted by: OldSpook ||
10/05/2004 12:01:37 AM ||
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#1
Although Bush has signed off on growth in government in several cases, in most he has embedded elements that will be important in reverting control of spending to citizens in the end. I would much rather see the pie continue to grow through changes like removing double-taxes on dividends even if there is some movement on creating new entitlements like the senior drug benefit - I think in the end the Health Savings Accounts have got to be better than HMO's.
Bush also gets a bum rap for adding baggage inspectors to the governement rolls. There can't be that many sane people who would have seriously established legislative grid-lock at that point in time.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/05/2004 2:35 Comments ||
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#2
What the article states is true enough if one only focuses on those economic trending factors, but..
Crude oil is in danger of bolting far beyond $50 per barrel contingent on a very nervous energy trading pits quickly reacting to serious additional attacks on Opec or major non-Opec oil exporting nations (other then Iraq). There is another lurking concern among energy traders, which is the very real possibility of substantial oil export disruptions (Iran) with the start of the new year, plus the fact the winter, if very cold, will rocket up heating oil, natural gas & propane prices even further from near record highs, an no ice, no snow on the ground in northeast cities...yet.
In addition to the energy complex, copper prices continue to soar along with energy costs which are some of the ingredients for the 'i' word .......whisper this softly ........(inflation).
The Bush White House can not be blamed for typical energy market reactions. Another key point which should be considered. The Dems conveniently ignore, if Saddam was permitted to remain in power, and Osama killers had been left alone, energy costs might very well be a lot higher then where they are at present due to more mass murders terror attacks after 9-11, coupled with a possible repeat of Kuwait oil being threatened with an Iraqi invasion.
How soon the Kerry Crowd forgets and so they should knowing how John Forbes Kerry voted the first time Saddam invaded and burned every oil well in Kuwait. Kerry & the neo-socialist limousine liberals did demand huge global protests over the most massive oil spill in the history of the Persian Gulf. Like the 'human shields', where are they now when fellow Americans are being murdered in Iraq by the very psychotic Islamic serial killers they formerly protected? What a bunch of two-faced hypocrites!
Kerry and his 'global test', what a lot of bollocks! In the first Gulf War the U.N.-backed coalition included Britain, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, the United Arab Emirates, Oman and Qatar. All the pieces were there, including the cause of justice.
Note this FACT: Sen. Kerry actually voted against S.J. RES. 2, the congressional authorization that empowered President Bush 41 to liberate Kuwait from Saddam Hussein's brutal Iraqi invaders. (I hope someone at the top of Bush election campaign is reviewing this....hammer away at this Kerry FACT, the clock is ticking.)
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/05/2004 4:49 Comments ||
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#3
too many things would happen in 2005 to have any hint of certainity. Iran what would hapen there? Nigeria? North Korea? Taiwan?....
I would say invest in medical/biotech and arms and security firms.
"There is no terrorist threat."
Those are the words of uber-liberal filmmaker and author Michael Moore, whose controversial film "Fahrenheit 9/11," which essentially blamed President Bush for the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, has sparked a number of counter-films.
One of them, "Fahrenhype 9/11," by Alan Peterson, features interviews with a number of today's most influential decision-makers, analysts and pundits.
Narrated by actor Ron Silver — an admitted two-time Bill Clinton supporter who is highly critical of Moore — the film dissects Moore's work point by point, even featuring a number of people who appeared in the liberal icon's original film.
The United Nations signed a cooperation agreement on Monday with the new International Criminal Court, despite objections to the tribunal from the United States. When are we going to pull the plug on the UN?, this nonsense is growing tiresome.
The pact that would encourage "greater cooperation and consultation" on administration and judicial matters was signed by U.N. Secretary-General Kofi "America hating bunghole" Annan and Judge Phillipe Kirsch of Canada, the court's president. The 191-member U.N. General adopted a resolution last month approving the agreement. But in a nod to the Bush administration, the assembly's resolution says that the world body would be reimbursed by nations supporting the court for any expenses occurred. Reimbursed?, why in the world would the US contribute one thin dime to this?
Some 97 countries, including the entire European Union, have ratified the 1998 statute creating the court. The last three nations to ratify two weeks ago were Burundi, Liberia and Guyana. The Bush administration is bitterly opposed to the new court and rescinded former President Bill Clinton's signature to the tribunal's statutes, arguing that it would expose U.S. soldiers and officials to frivolous law suits. Agreed.
But supporters of the court say the ICC steps in only when a country is the USA unwilling or unable to investigate, making it highly unlikely U.S. citizens would be targeted. Don't make me laugh, this whole charade is designed as a tool of the UN to try and reign in the US. Continued on Page 49
Posted by: JerseyMike ||
10/05/2004 8:41:00 AM ||
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#1
U.S. citizen are entitled to a jury trial. Not a trial by a pannel of judges. Fark Kofi and the horse he rode in on. The ICC is incompatable with the US Bill of Rights. No US money to support iut not one dime.
#2
1 U.S. citizen are entitled to a jury trial. Not a trial by a pannel of judges. Fark Kofi and the horse he rode in on. The ICC is incompatable with the US Bill of Rights. No US money to support iut it not one dime.
#3
That's why the leaders of Sudan, the perpetrators of one the world's worst ongoing massacres and ethnic cleansing, are under indictment by the UN and ICC. What? Only silence from the ICC, support from the UN and the models of justice France, China, and Russia? Nevermind.
Posted by: ed ||
10/05/2004 9:32 Comments ||
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#4
I used to advocate moving the U.N. out of New York and into Paris. No more. Now I advocate rounding up all U.N. officials/diplomats/workers with foreign passports and deporting them to their countries of origin, then leveling the buildings. No transition plan.
Posted by: Tom ||
10/05/2004 9:35 Comments ||
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#5
just guessing that, while a fair and accurate description, 'Kofi "America hating bunghole" Annan' may not have been in the original CNN article...
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/05/2004 9:39 Comments ||
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#6
Tom, Level the building then salt the earth upon which it stood. Then use it for a sewage treatment plant.
My guess is that Kerry would sign onto the ICC in a heartbeat (global test and all). We need to tell people that this would remove the bill of rights.
#7
ABA Journal: The International Criminal Court has been in existence for more than two years. Under what circumstances would you ask the Senate to ratify the 1998 Rome Statute that created the ICC? Short of ratification, what should the relationship between the ICC and the United States be?
Bush: Submission to the jurisdiction of the ICC would put our troops and officials at unacceptable risk of politically motivated prosecutions. For this reason, when President Clinton signed the ICC treaty, he explicitly stated that the treaty would have to be altered significantly before the United States could consider joining it. The reforms necessary to protect our troops have not yet been instituted, and until they are, no president should consider sending the treaty to the Senate for ratification.
I believe that every country is obligated to take action against persons subject to their jurisdiction who violate fundamental forms of international law. Where countries are not able to do so, specific international tribunals can be formed to hold individuals to account, like in The Hague tribunal that is now hearing the prosecution of Slobodan Milosevic. We are now working with countries around the world to sign Article 98 agreements. These agreements, allowed under the Rome Statute, would protect U.S. nationals by not allowing them to be surrendered to the ICC without the consent of the U.S. government. I believe this solution will provide needed protections for our personnel while respecting other countriesâ desire to join the ICC.
Kerry: The Bush administration needlessly alienated our friends and allies by its ham-handed approach to the issue of the International Criminal Court. My administration will carefully consider the full range of U.S. interests at stake with respect to the court as we review our policy and fashion a more constructive approach.
On one hand, there's a well thought out response from GW.
Then there's Kerry's position...bent over kissing our collective ass good bye!
#9
Amen Mojo, Amen! How many nano-seconds do you think it will take before some LLL files some stupid charge against any number of U.S. citizens if they were bound by this Kangaroo Court. No offense meant toward our Australian cousins.
#12
Hey, that's great, Kofi. Does this mean we've got a venue for those Oil for Palaces trials that'll be coming up soon? Think your kid will like the Netherlands?
Hello? Hello?
When term papers get graded this school year, many students who turn in sloppy work won't be seeing red. An increasingly popular grading theory insists red ink is stressful and demoralizes students, while purple, the preferred color, has a more calming effect. "I never use red to grade papers because it stands out like, 'Oh, here's what you did wrong.' " said Melanie Irvine, a third-grade teacher at Pacific Rim Elementary in Carlsbad.
Well, duh!
"Purple is a more approachable color." Irvine said that in elementary schools, it's unnecessary to point out every error. Instead, a teacher should find a more delicate way to help a child learn. ---snip--
"We try to be as gentle as we can and not slice children's thoughts to pieces with a red pen," said Laurie Francis, principal of Del Mar Hills Academy. "The red mark is associated with 'This is wrong,' and as you're trying to guide students in the revision process, it doesn't mean this is wrong. It's just here's what you can do better."
#4
A friend of mine who teaches in high school says one of their science teachers walked out the other day, fed up with the bullshit and the pampered, lazy, precious little darlings who don't want to have to do any work, but expect straight "A"s in return.
Right in the middle of listening to one of his students whine about the homework being too hard, he just said "fuck this shit" and walked straight to the principal's office and quit on the spot.
I don't blame him.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/05/2004 13:03 Comments ||
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#6
I had papers in school that were awash in red ink (no surprise there)! Yes I was hurt, but I tried harder next time. Heck when I was writing evals in the military, I had a Chief that would 'bleed' all over my evals (and most others). It's called contrast people and it works.
#8
The second half of the article is definitely over the top as far as self-esteem goes. BUT, I correct in blue if student writes in black and vice versa and have done this for the past 14 years. However, I didn't need to be told by any "color theory teacher". Did it myself when I saw the papers were being tossed away.
Posted by: chicago mike ||
10/05/2004 16:26 Comments ||
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#9
Chicago Mike-that's a workable solution.
These self esteem issues wouldn't even be in the picture if the educators themselves (not including you here, Mike) would learn to focus on teaching students to analyze, to conceptualize, to deduce, rather than propping up students' self-esteem by following current day half-baked educational trends that emphasize "feelings". Students HAVE self esteem, students can better their self esteem when they have the tools to attack the tasks at hand. (The hugs and feelings that come after they have performed for their own goals are genuine and grateful!) When students are taught with the fuzzy feeling method-("what are you feeling, express yourself"-but don't actually solve a problem, write a paper, construct a formula) and don't actually get put to the test on their knowledge, they DO become dependent on outside boosts for their self esteem. I couldn't stand the new age mentality of the K-12 teachers' environment, so I moved into adult and higher education, where students tend to have a more serious dedication to real goals.
In early elementary classrooms, changing ink would actually be pretty darned appropriate. Children of the elementary age are in a stage of development where a sense of initiative and industry must overcome the competing pull of guilt and inferiority, so that a sense of purpose and competence can emerge (see link) . Students of this age do better when they can CONNECT personal accomplishment and learning. Red ink (commonly associated with police, firemen, stop signs, etc.) can be counter-productive, because students might feel like "they're in trouble" when they make a mistake and "disconnect," instead of seeing mistakes as part of the learning process. Additionally, effective teachers want students to learn the skill of analysis and self-correction-- as opposed to "you're 'bad' because you made a mistake," which shuts down students' desire to learn and achieve (ever had a disapproving, negative employer? It's like that.)
Fast forward to Jr. High. If middle-schoolers are still bothered by the red ink thing, it has to be from ealier bad associations. Other than that, it they're throwing papers away--well, that's middle-schoolers for ya! Identity formation is everything, and if it's "cool" to throw away papers--the whole pack will be doing it, red ink or not. They gotta learn what "loyalty" is, and going with the "group" is where they first start learning it.
High school? Red ink problems? If they haven't been taught to own and manage the learning process by this time, and are sweating corrections done in red ink, it's going to be a tough battle for any teacher. So, if changing the color of the ink is ALL a teacher has to do to help kids retain personal involvement in their learning--SO WHAT. I mean, do it.
The solution?: If teachers require STUDENTS to self-correct in red ink, early on, I don't think there will be any problems later.
As for all the mumbo-jumbo Southern California hype pseudo-spiritual new age nonsense in the article:
"Sheldon Brown, a visual arts professor at the University of California San Diego and director of the school's Center for Research in Computing and the Arts, said the negative reaction to grading in red is culturally embedded â a reaction more ingrained in the teachers than the students."
"Teachers may start out using purple, a color that they seem to think has less negative connotations, but in time, after kids have gone through 12 years of purple check marks, they're going to think purple is an awful color," Brown said.
#12
Quite frankly, I'm tired of all this self-esteem/sensitivity bullshit. Instead of simple red ink pen grading, failing papers get done in RED FELT-TIPPED MARKER PENS. Nice, big letters. Demoralized? Stressed? Too bad, try again.
I got red-lined when I was in school many moons ago, and I don't feel any ill effects from "damaged" self-esteem. (I didn't even know what the hell self-esteem was back then, and I didn't give a rat's ass about it either)
#15
Ex-lib-right with you on the Brown comment and with connecting personal accomplishment with learning.
It appears our opinions diverge radically on guilt and inferiority in elementary students (I don't believe they are born with those-they sometimes unfortunately learn those) and student self-correction, in the academic sense of self-correction. If you have outstanding students, they can mentor their fellow classmates, but can never supplant the teacher. The teacher IS the authority of the subject matter in his class (or should be anyway).
This tender touch trend started with the whole "there is no one right answer" bunch and was adopted by other educators in an attempt to lessen the hurt that students feel when they don't perform well.
In ESL, I saw that teachers bent over backwards to make sure that students could slip past certain benchmarks. Although it may comes from teachers' best intentions, it actually frontloads students for disappointment and surprise later, when they learn that the world DOESN'T bend over to make things easy for them, that you have to toughen up a bit to survive in the world. When we graded tests, some teachers softened the scores so that students would feel empowered. These same students were surprised when they weren't treated the same way when trying to gain entrance to college credit courses. I, and a few other teachers, graded students more realistically, which communicated to them exactly what level of performance would be expected of them in the real, workaday world.
Angry passengers on Monday turned the tables on six armed train robbers in eastern India, beating them to death with sticks and umbrellas, police said. The robbers struck as the train approached a small station, Mayur Halt, nearly 90 kilometres north of Calcutta, the capital of West Bengal state, said police Insp.-Gen. Chayan Mukherjee. Passengers who were robbed alerted others in the train. As the train came to a halt, the robbers tried to flee but were chased and beaten with sticks, stones and umbrellas, Mukherjee said. "The robbers were dead when police reached the spot," he said. Train robberies are common in eastern India.
... but will become a little more rare if this happens many more times...
Mercury astronaut Gordon Cooper gone at age 77
BY WILLIAM HARWOOD
STORY WRITTEN FOR CBS NEWS "SPACE PLACE" & USED WITH PERMISSION
Posted: October 4, 2004
Astronaut Gordon "Gordo" Cooper, a veteran of NASA's Mercury and Gemini programs that paved the way for the Apollo moon landings, died today at his home in Ventura, Calif. He was 77 and his death came 47 years to the day after the space age began with the launch of the Russian Sputnik satellite.
Gordon "Gordo" Cooper was one of NASA's original astronauts. Photo: NASA
"As one of the original seven Mercury astronauts, Gordon Cooper was one of the faces of America's fledgling space program," NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe said in a statement. "He truly portrayed the right stuff, and he helped gain the backing and enthusiasm of the American public, so critical for the spirit of exploration. My thoughts and prayers are with Gordon's family during this difficult time."
Former U.S. Senator John Glenn said, "Gordo's final launch came as a shock, because the last time Annie and I were with him, his health seemed to have improved. There are thousands of memories from our early space days. Gordo was one of the most straightforward people I have ever known. What you saw was what you got. Pride in doing a great job, whatever his assignment, was his hallmark. You could always depend on Gordo. It's hard to believe that he will no longer be with us in person. I know he'll be with us in spirit. Our thoughts and prayers are with his wife Suzie and his family."
Known as a natural "stick and rudder man," Cooper was the youngest of the Mercury Seven, selected along with Alan Shepard, John Glenn, Donald "Deke" Slayton, Scott Carpenter, Gus Grissom and Walter Schirra as America's first set of astronauts.
"We seven were bonded like brothers, maybe even closer if that's possible," Walter "Wally" Schirra said today. "Gordon backed me up on my Mercury flight which went very well. In turn, I backed him on his flight, which went equally as well. He now has joined Gemini crewmate, the late Pete Conrad, in orbit."
"This is truly the passing of a beloved member of a unique fraternity. We'll all miss him," Scott Carpenter said.
Cooper blasted off in his Faith 7 capsule atop an Atlas rocket on May 15, 1963, completing 22 orbits and becoming the first American to sleep in orbit before returning to Earth the next day.
"Cooper's efforts and those of his fellow Mercury astronauts, Alan Shepard, Gus Grissom, John Glenn, Scott Carpenter, Wally Schirra and Deke Slayton, serve as reminders of what drives us to explore," O'Keefe said. "They also remind us that to succeed any vision for exploration needs the support of the American people."
Of the original Mercury 7, Grissom was killed in an Apollo launch pad fire in January 1967. Slayton and Shepard, like Cooper, died earlier of natural causes.
Cooper joined Charles Conrad Jr. for his second space flight, an eight-day mission aboard a two-man Gemini capsule in August 1965 that was designed to confirm astronauts could survive in space long enough to reach and return from the moon.
Despite numerous technical glitches, the two astronauts completed a 191-hour, 122-orbit mission that included a make-believe rendezvous to test the techniques that would be needed during the Apollo program.
Cooper's efforts and those of his fellow Mercury astronauts ... serve as reminders of what drives us to explore," O'Keefe said. "They also remind us that to succeed any vision for exploration needs the support of the American people."
Leroy Gordon Cooper Jr. was born March 6, 1927, in Shawnee, Ok. He earned a bachelor of science degree in Aeronautical engineering from the Air Force Institute of Technology in 1956 and later received an honorary doctorate of science degree from Oklahoma City University in 1967.
Cooper received an Army commission after three years at the University of Hawaii, but he transferred his commission to the Air Force and began flight training in 1949. He flew F-84 and F-86 jets while stationed in Germany.
After earning his degree, he was selected for training at the Air Force test pilot school at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif. The sprawling base is just a few miles from the Mojave Airport where pilot Brian Binnie became the second private-sector astronaut earlier today with a flight that mirrored, in some ways, the early Mercury missions.
He was selected as a Mercury astronaut in April 1959, becoming an instant celebrity in the space race with the former Soviet Union. Along with his two space flights, Cooper served as backup commander for Gemini 12 and the Apollo 10 mission that preceded the first landing on the moon in 1969. He retired from the Air Force and NASA in 1970.
That same year, he founded Gordon Cooper and Associates, a consulting firm specializing in a wide variety of commercial enterprises. In 1975, he joined Walter E. Disney Enterprises Inc. as vice president of research and development.
He held a variety of other positions in the private sector and served as an on-air consultant for CBS News during Glenn's launch aboard the space shuttle Discovery in October 1998.
Cooper listed his hobbies as treasure hunting, archeology, racing, flying and outdoor sports. He was a member of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots, the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, the American Astronautical Society and many others. His honors and awards include the Air Force Legion of Merit, the Air Force Distinguished Flying Cross, the Air Force Distinguished Flying Cross Cluster and the NASA Exceptional Service Medal.
He also held the Ivan E. Kincheloe Trophy, the Collier Trophy and a variety of other aerospace honors.
This is a reminder of just how long it has been since the heady days of the early space program, and of how so little of that promise has been realized.
The history of spaceflight is a history of missed opportunities, of short-sighted politics, of bureaucratic fumbling and inertia, of facetious luddite soundbites undermining public support, and (most importantly in my humble opinion) of uncontrolled profiteering and careerism moving inexorably toward a state of nil results for infinite expenditure.
It is a bitter irony that Gordo left us on the very day that the X-Prize has shown the way to realizing the extraordinary possibilities that he and others dared and sacrificed so much to create.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy ||
10/05/2004 6:12:12 AM ||
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#1
Luddite media-slave soundbite: "Why should we spend all that money on space when we have so many problems right here?"
To begin with, I have never met anyone who said this who knew within an order of magnitude just how much was budgeted for space how this compared to, say, food stamps (about the same) or farm subsidies (twice as much as space) or defense (typically twenty times as much and much more these days).
Secondly, it is not possible to spend money in space as opposed to "right here." From the luddites' phrasing, you would suppose that we stuff spacecraft with diamonds and neogtiable bonds and shoot them off into the void. In fact, there are no contractors or facilities or banks on Mars or in the Asteroid belt (at least not yet), it is all spent on Earth.
Thirdly, spaceflight exists ultimately for the sole purpose of benefiting the human race by assuring its survival, and there are many short-term benefits as well. The average proudly myopic media slave is not obliged to acknowledge this but it is nevertheless quite real and documented.
Reflexive peaceniks like GnawAn'Pis deplore the existence of "spy satellites," for example.
They are either too ignorant or; more likely, too dishonest; to acknowledge that these very systems make comprehensive arms control agreements possible. Of course, they claim that is our fault if are threatened and that we can assure peace only by "trusting others" and "acknowledging our mistakes" (as the dictators, terrorists, and power-freak authoritarians see them) that is, abject surrender.
This would naturally result in totalitarians and terrorist slave-masters gaining absolute world dominance. The peaceniks cannot possibly be stupid enough not to know that. It is, in fact, their objective. It could not be more clear that they are not for peace, they are for the other side.
#3
I think the last lines of "The Right Stuff" are a fitting memorial:
"...'OH, LORD,WHAT A HEAVENLY LIGHT'...THE MERCURY PROGRAM WAS OVER. FOUR YEARS LATER, ASTRONAUT GUS GRISSOM WAS KILLED,ALONG WITH ASTRONAUTS WHITE AND CHAFFEE WHEN FIRE SWEPT THROUGH THEIR APOLLO CAPSULE. BUT ON THAT GLORIOUS DAY IN MAY, 1963,
GORDO COOPER WENT HIGHER,FARTHER, AND FASTER THAN ANY OTHER AMERICAN. 22 COMPLETE ORBITS AROUND THE WORLD.
HE WAS THE LAST AMERICAN EVER TO GO INTO SPACE ALONE.
AND FOR A BRIEF MOMENT,GORDO COOPER BECAME
THE GREATEST PILOT ANYONE HAD EVER SEEN."
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
10/05/2004 7:42 Comments ||
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#4
Hell, at this point in time, we can't even replicate what Cooper did in his Mercury capsule, let alone send humans to the moon. How the mighty have fallen.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/05/2004 9:54 Comments ||
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#5
Several Russians have made manual reentries but they all missed their landing zone.... Gordo said he decided to miss the Kearsage at the last minute.
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