U.S. Senator Mike Enzi, R-Wyo, Ranking Member of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee, today introduced legislation to wipe out tobacco use in America through an innovative cap-and-trade program that will shrink the size of the tobacco market over the next 20 years.
Tobacco kills. We need new ideas to get people to stop smoking, or better yet, never to start, Enzi said. Thats what my legislation does. My bill contains a novel cap-and-trade program that will guarantee that fewer people suffer the deadly consequences of smoking, while providing flexibility in how those reductions are achieved.
Cap-and-trade programs have a proven track record in the environmental arena, particularly in addressing acid rain. My tobacco plan is based on the successful program in the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990. This system achieved the desired results faster and at lower cost than had been anticipated. The same can be done for tobacco, Enzi said.
The cap-and-trade program will reduce the adverse health effects of tobacco use through reductions in the size of the US tobacco market to fewer than 2 percent of the population over 20 years. Tobacco manufacturers would be required to meet specific user level limits by specified deadlines and the plan would set up a market share allocation and transfer system in which allowances could be used, banked, traded, or sold freely on the open market.
The Enzi proposal, the Help End Addiction to Lethal Tobacco Habits Act (HEALTH Act), would also close loopholes in the law that tobacco companies have exploited and enjoyed for far too long. It would use proven approaches to help people stop using tobacco products and implement tried and true prevention programs.
Some have suggested that FDA regulation of tobacco is the way toward safer tobacco products. But we know that there is no such thing as a safe cigarette, Enzi said. Proposals to have FDA regulate tobacco are a misguided attempt to force a deadly product into the regulatory structure developed for drugs and devices products which DO have health benefits. The Democrats deadly scheme for tobacco would be very costly, and would not result in much of a health benefit. We can do better. Who elected this bozo?
#3
If this happens, then they'll have police aircraft searching fields of marijuana for the clandestine tobacco plants.
Enzi needs to be taken out behind the Capitol building and given a severe beating. I don't like tobacco, I don't like being around it, but I know it's none of my damned business. It's none of his, either.
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
07/23/2007 20:40 Comments ||
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#4
Lotta cows in Wyoming, Mike? How about we come up with a plan to shrink the size of the meat market in about twenty years? Even better, how about some term limits for U.S. senators?
How about you keep your face outta my business, okay?
#5
His idea is actually interesting in a way. If you believe that tobacco kills, then it is less hypocritical to try to eliminate than it is to tax it for revenue. His plan sucks, though.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/23/2007 23:35 Comments ||
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Zimbabwe is to revive two dormant state companies to spearhead its recently announced policy of taking 51 per cent of the shares of privately owned businesses.
Obert Mpofu, the trade and industry minister, said the defunct State Trading Corporation and the Zimbabwe Development Corporation would be revived to acquire commercial and manufacturing companies. Mr Mpofu, who chairs the governments price control task force, said his ministry had been allocated enough funds to ensure that industry does not collapse.
In the clearest statement to date of the governments long-term economic policy towards private enterprise, Mr Mpofu told businessmen: We do not want to kill you it's just business, after all but to make your business viable. Once you are in business and happy, you will also leave us to run the country.
We want to build some kind of an orderly business environment. I will hate to reach a stage where I will be forced to take over the companies from you, but if you do not co-operate that is what is going to happen and this is the position of the government.
How .. Soviet of him.
More clarification is expected on Tuesday when President Robert Mugabe opens a new session of parliament, during which the takeover plans will be debated.
The governments indigenisation and economic empowerment bill, which is expected to become law by September, requires designated businesses to sell up to 51 per cent of their shares to Bob's friends and cronies disadvantaged black Zimbabweans.
At a U2 concert in Ireland , Bono (the lead singer) asks the audience for some quiet. Then he starts to slowly clap his hands. Holding the audience in total silence, he says into the microphone...."I want you to think about something. Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."
A voice from the front of the audience yells out...."Then stop clapping, ya ass****!"
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/23/2007 1:14 Comments ||
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#3
designated businesses to sell up to 51 per cent of their shares
"Sell", my ass. Considering they're "buying" with worthless ZimBob money...
When all that's left is dirt, Bob and his mob will be stealing that.
#5
I happened to hear a panel discussion about the Zimbabwe situation on Beeb radio with some African commentators and pols. Translating from lefty New Speak, they seemed to feel the situation would take care of itself - after there was absolutely nothing left to steal, ZimBob would quietly slink away and spend his days sitting by the pool in Saudi with Idi Amin.
A former Bangladeshi lawmaker was Sunday sentenced to two decades in jail by an anti-corruption court for illegally amassing more than a million dollars in cash and property, a government lawyer said.
The court also ordered Abdul Wadud Bhuiyans property confiscated, public prosecutor Mosharraf Hossain Kazal said. The judge in his verdict said there is a gross mismatch between the income and wealth of Bhuiyan. He was unable to provide clear evidence how he acquired the fortune, he said. Bhuiyan, 46, an influential former Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP) member of parliament, was arrested in April by a military-backed emergency government.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/23/2007 00:00 ||
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Police have said the shooting of an officer in Carrickfergus, Co Antrim, during trouble between rival loyalists was attempted murder. His injuries are not thought to be life-threatening. A civilian was also stabbed and is in hospital.
Three men were arrested under terrorist legislation during the trouble in Castlemara housing projectslum estate on Saturday night. Weapons, including CS spray, a crossbow and baseball bats, were also found. The trouble is being linked to UDA feuding.
Just days after Brazil's deadliest plane crash a radar outage over the Amazon spread the country's aviation crisis overseas, spawning ripple-effect delays at a half-dozen U.S. airports.
For nearly three hours, air traffic controllers closed Brazilian air space The radar failure occurred during the wee hours of Saturday morning, peak travel time between Brazil and the United States. For nearly three hours, air traffic controllers closed Brazilian air space, forcing over 20 international flights to be diverted or canceled. Planes had to return to their points of origin or make unscheduled stops at other airports as far flung as San Juan, Puerto Rico and Santiago, Chile.
Two American Airlines planes traveling from Sao Paulo were forced to make unscheduled landings in the jungle city of Manaus and at least four planes were forced to return to Miami. A United Airlines flight from Washington carrying 73 athletes to Rio de Janeiro for the Pan American Games was canceled, forcing the athletes to arrive a day late.
The Air Force blamed the radar outage on electrical failure, but also said it was investigating whether sabotage was to blame.
The Air Force blamed the radar outage on electrical failure, but also said it was investigating whether sabotage was to blame. The outage came just hours after President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva went on national television to announce new measures to shore-up Brazil's ailing aviation system.
Brazilians have been suffering through flight delays and cancellations since September, when a Boeing 737 operated by Gol Airlines crashed over the Amazon rain forest, killing all 154 people aboard. Four air traffic controllers, as well as two U.S. pilots aboard an executive jet that clipped the 737, face criminal charges in connection with that crash.
The accident was Brazil's worst air disaster until Tuesday, when an Airbus-320 operated by TAM Airlines slammed into a building outside at Sao Paulo's Congonhas airport, killing 191 people.
The Gol crash touched off months of delays and canceled flights in Brazil, as air traffic controllers embarked on a series of work slowdowns to protest precarious conditions in the air.
Many in Brazil suspect recent radar outages that have sporadically stalled domestic air travel are actually veiled work stoppages
Because Brazil remains one the last countries in Latin America to have the military responsible for civilian flight controllers, striking is paramount to treason. Many in Brazil suspect recent radar outages that have sporadically stalled domestic air travel are actually veiled work stoppages hence the suspicion of sabotage.
Even so, experts say there is also ample reason to believe Saturday's radar outage was simple equipment failure.
Congressional hearings after the Gol crash shocked many travelers, revealing Brazil's airports to be seriously underfunded and stretched to the limit.
"There have been warnings, warnings, warnings about the need to do something about the communications systems, about the runways," said Brazilian aviation consultant Elias Gedeon. "The government didn't understand the importance of this. This is very bad for Brazil."
Gedeon says the problems stretch back at least five years. Spending on aviation security has averaged only $248 million a year since 2003, when Silva took office, about half of what was spent in 2002.
Gedeon says another problem is that the government has doled out top aviation posts to political appointees with little or no expertise.
#1
That was my first thought when I heard the story...some guy knows just how the system works, and what would look like a routine failure. Or, he just refuses to keep the system running with baling wire and duct tape like he usually does. Then the radar goes out, and the government looks like a bunch of asses, which they are.
CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that foreigners who publicly criticize him or his government while visiting Venezuela will be expelled from the country. Chavez ordered officials to closely monitor statements made by international figures during their visits to Venezuela _ and deport any outspoken critics.
"How long are we going to allow a person _ from any country in the world _ to come to our own house to say there's a dictatorship here, that the president is a tyrant, and nobody does anything about it?" Chavez asked during his weekly television and radio program.
Seems to work in the U.S. Our president gets criticized by furriners all the time in our own country and nothing much seems to happen.
The Venezuelan leader's statements came after Manuel Espino, the president of Mexico's conservative ruling party, criticized Chavez during a recent pro-democracy forum in Caracas.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/23/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
"How long are we going to allow a person _ from any country in the world _ to come to our own house to say there's a dictatorship here, that the president is a tyrant, and nobody does anything about it?"
Well, Hugo, the moment you do something about it, you'd only certify what they are saying.
You know what they say... the duck that got shot always quacks.
#2
Since the KKKossacks and DU-niks love Chavez so much, and Chavez has now come out foursquare in favor of "crushing of dissent", logic demands that they stop complaining about the (nonexistent) "crushing of dissent" here. Well, kids?
[crickets]
Posted by: Mike ||
07/23/2007 6:47 Comments ||
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#3
I put forth the plan where the DU and Kossacks front for employment in "Hugo's Paradise". Job openings developing right now. Think of shipping out all those angry wannabe Marxists to warm and inviting Caracas away from their parents basement, university coffee shops, and work cubicles in most MSM establishments. No more Bushhitlerland. The wonders of the workers paradise await you, the true believers.
#4
O.K. that's it. I'm scrapping my vacation plans. Not a place I really want to go. Chavez is poor excuse for a leader. Squelching a free press and outside criticism is the mark of an fearful, insecure dictator. This guy was made in the mold of Hitler and old style Communist heads of the former USSR.
#5
I haven't seen all of the United States yet, so I'm in no hurry to go to Venezuela. I guess that means I can call that little tinpot a$$hole dictator a little tinpot a$$hole dictator pretty freely. Hey Chavez, may your nation do Zim-bob-way one better, ok? You're already off to a good start.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
07/23/2007 20:38 Comments ||
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More Chinese officers and soldiers boarded trains here on Saturday for Russia, where they will join an anti-terrorism drill held by the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). This is the last batch of officers and soldiers transported by trains to Russia along with armaments to be used in the drill.
The six member countries of the SCO -- China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan -- will stage a joint anti-terrorism drill from Aug. 9 to 17.
The drill, "Peace Mission 2007", will be carried out in Chelyabinsk in Russia's Ural mountain region and in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. "They (the soldiers) will travel a total distance of 10,300 kilometers," said Qiu Yanhan, deputy commander of the Chinese troops taking part in the drill.
This is the first time the Chinese People's Liberation Army has sent so many soldiers and armaments to such a distant drill. A total of 1,600 soldiers from China's army and air force -- including airborne and logistic units -- will take part, according to the Ministry of Defense.
Posted by: John Frum ||
07/23/2007 8:40 Comments ||
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#3
Does this portend a coming large scale Muzz cleansing by Putie and the Chicoms in concert ? Could be a big hurt coming for certain Muzz in the path of the steam roller.
#5
Wel-l-l, CHIN MIL FORUM > China is emplacing modernized DF-21's, -25's IRBMS which not only threatens INDIA, but can also easily target nearby Russian missle- and mil bases in central Asia. China is also reportedly staying adamant that the USA not emplace GMD missles + radars in Alaska or near North Pole-NORPAC corridors. * IONews, GLOBALRESEARCH/COUNTERPUNCH/OTHER > THE COMING US-RUSSIAN WAR OVER THE ARCTIC [Oil + minerals].
CNOOCs willingness to strike an oil deal with the fragile government of Somalia, which has been a failed state for more than a decade, has provided stark evidence of Chinas willingness to brave terrain that western oil majors deem too treacherous. The state-owned Chinese oil giant has signed a production-sharing deal with the transitional federal government in the east African country, which ranks as a high-risk frontier even in an industry well accustomed to dangerous environments.
Thereby making all members of the transitional federal government, their families, friends and cronies, wealthy.
In doing so, CNOOC and its smaller partner, China International Oil and Gas, are gambling on three points. First, that the interim government has the authority to make such deals and will stay in power. Second, that violence stemming from perennial inter-clan conflicts and more recently Islamist extremism will not derail its work. Third and most fundamentally that the country has some oil worth extracting.
Several western oil majors held exploration concessions in Somalia in the 1980s, but fled in 1991 when the overthrow of dictator Siad Barre ushered in 16 years of chaos.
Ali Mohamed Gedi, Somalias interim prime minister, told the Financial Times last week that ConocoPhillips, Chevron, BP, Royal Dutch Shell and Eni would be invited to return and change their concessions into production-sharing agreements under a new oil law due to be published in the next two months.
But that looks like a distant prospect. BP, Shell and Eni say they still consider the concession deals to be subject to force majeure code for unexpected and disruptive events that prevent contractual obligations from being met. Chevron and ConocoPhillips have declined to comment.
#1
Considering the typical level of ruthlessness evidenced by the Chinese in dealing with oil producing regions in unstable countries, Somalia might just become functional soon. The Sudanese government has been given upwards of 10,000 "armed oil workers" from China, in order to protect the Chinese investments in Sudan's oil regions. The same seems likely in Somalia, especially since no other oil company has the access to troops and arms that the Chinese state oil firms do. That means that the Chinese will effectively get the full daily oil and natural gas production of Somalia for the next 20-30 years. And the Chinese will NOT be frightened off by a few thousand casualties in a war for resources, anywhere in the world.
#1
Kosovo independence would be a catastrophic error. Most Eastern Europeans don't want that heroin conduit, as a sovereign country. We are not exactly working for Kurd, Mandean, Turkeman, Balochi, ad nauseum, independence in Iraq and Iran. Clinton is loving every bit of this homage to his lying, cheating, Serb killing self.
Volunteers form a human chain to honor fallen U.S. troops in World War Two and form the words "France Will Never Forget" as a symbol of the friendship between France and the U.S. in Omaha Beach, near the U.S. Cemetery in Colleville-sur-Mer, western France, June 30, 2007.
JFM, is that you second from the left in the letter "T"?
Posted by: Mike ||
07/23/2007 06:40 ||
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#1
I didn't knew about this initiative. Also I live in Paris and is not that easy for me to go to Colleville
However:
1) For the 60th anniversary of D-Day there were French citizens who scrapped their own pockets in order to build a monument on Omaha beach.
2) The prefet (ie the state's agent in the region, ie Chirac's representative) tried to have it demolished in september 2004 but citizen's resistance succedeed in thwarting the project.
3) When visiting Coleville's graveyard (BTW, a very beautiful place and AFAIK, American territory) I noticed an old man flowering a grave. Then he spoke in French to be one of his family and his French was too perfect and unnaccented for him to be an American.
4) I saw a public building flying Normandy's flag, the American flag and.. that's all. No trace of the European Union flag and no trace of the French flag.
#3
#2: The font of Anti-Americanism in Europe is the elites, not the people (sort of like in America). The problem is the elites control policy in Europe.
#5
The elites (and the Communist Party when it was influential) have brainwashed the French people for decades. It will take decades of deprogramming. But even in 2004 I was surprised how easy it was to find people who confessed to be pro-American. At that time saying it was like telling you were from the KKK, very politically incorrect.
#7
I lived in Paris for 2 years and can't tell you how many conversations I had with French people about all things political where we came to the mutual conclusion that 'it's not the people, it's their government.' And where, once we got to get to know each other and hang out, etc, we agreed 'hey, you guys aren't so bad.' The sad reality: our default behavior is to distrust, demonize and slander. It makes us feel better about ourselves - it also ensures we slaughter each other from time to time. Sad but true.
#8
The font of Anti-Americanism in Europe is the elites, not the people (sort of like in America). The problem is the elites control policy in Europe.
Well worth repeating.
How will we rid ourselves of such troublesome elites?
I'll quote John F. Kennedy:
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."
America's elite are closing ranks. Witness, for example, the immigration bill. They are making control of public policy a closed shop and increasingly ignoring the average citizen's input. There is another butcher's bill slowly accruing for this treason. Things are going to get very ugly when the tab finally comes due.
Posted by: John Kerry ||
07/23/2007 13:46 Comments ||
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#11
Thanks for the anecdotes, JFM. I'd always read and heard that the locals in the Normandy area maintain true heartfelt gratitude for their liberation.
#13
Always, but the libs are trying to make it impossible for more to join. It is hard to imagine, but the time is not far off when no one alive will be able to remember when a state was added to the Union.
#4
Reminds me of this story:
Atlee ran into Churchill at the urinal in the House of Common's men's room. Churchill stood as far away from Atlee as possible.
"Feeling standoffish today, Winston?" said Atlee.
Replied Churchill: "That's right. Every time you see something big, you want to nationalize it."
#6
Nationalize preschools? Bah! Enough of these halfway measures. Why not simply raise our young in vats of nutrient solution until they are old enought for the education camps?
Question: is it possible for Hillary to become even creepier than this?
#9
Come now they can brainwash our kids unless they have a National Program. This worked very well in Nazi Germany little Kinders in one door and good little Nazi out the other. Hopefully, before November 2008, everyone will see the current crop of Donks as what they truely are Socialists with a lean toward Nationalism.
#10
Meathead Reiners same prop C passed '06 in Colorado,
and so far, the 'study' group has only $12M tax money from that boondoggle and won't be able to (maybe) start the program until 9/08. Must be waiting for Fed $'s and Hillary ribbon cutting.
#14
As much as I hate to say it, I think she is right on this one. Half of our kids are in single parent homes and even married households struggle to help kids with homework and use TV as a babysitter. The early years are the most important for cognitive development and costs less than remedial care. My bipolar niece is not meant to have a child but you can't send them back. Her ADHD son was picked up by bus and transported to an old elementary no longer needed, where he had activity, supervision, and learning opportunities with other children rather than be ignored and yelled at. It is also a good alternative for daycare and provides employment for preschool teachers. As a bonus, social services checked on them and they had a couple of meals. It is a lot cheaper than incarceration in the long run to support struggling families.
#16
Perhaps as a shelter/Head Start program for at-risk children, Danielle, but not otherwise. According to my mother, whose specialty is early child development (among other things, but that gets complicated), my sister and I were happy to go to pre-school at age three, but my two brothers weren't ready to separate from her until they were at least a year older. If preschool is nationalized, the next step will be to make it required, then formalize and standardize the curriculum, and we'll end up with something terribly inappropriate for little people who should be spending that time learning mainly through self-directed play.
#17
I keep remembering that recent UK demand that schools report on whether parents were reading the correct number and type of books to their kids .....
OTOH, a more sobering read about minority youth at risk, especially some black boys. A recent program in NY found black boys as young as 7 who were already deliberately flunking science and reading in order to fit in with the older black boys in their neighborhoods. The prognosis for them being able to get decent jobs or stay out of jail is pretty slim without some strong and early influence in other directions.
I don't trust any program organized by Hitlery, tho.
#19
FOX NEWS > Barack Obama seemingly did better than Hillary according to the YOUTUBE post-Dem debate stats and graphics. One of his best scores was achieved vv YOUTUBE when he proposed investing in new schools in South? Carolina.
JERUSALEM - When an explosion goes off on a busy Israeli street these days, it seems as likely to be a mob hit as a Palestinian attack.
Rival underworld gangs are waging bloody battles for control of gambling and protection rackets, targeting each other with bullets, bombs and anti-tank missiles.
Organized crime, long overshadowed by the Arab-Israeli conflict, has become such a part of everyday life that Israel has its own "Sopranos"-style TV series, "The Arbitrator," in which even synagogues are no refuge from hit men. The mob wars have killed dozens of gangsters and at least eight bystanders in the last three years, and exposed law enforcement officers in scandalous complicity.
Continued on Page 49
#1
Alperon, like the fictional Tony Soprano seen on TV screens, has pet ducks and was tending them at the time of the shootout. It was the ninth assassination attempt he has survived.
Air Force Special Operations Command (Afsoc) is planning to buy a fleet of bombers to house its future gunship, breaking with a decades-old tradition of using C-130 transports to carry heavy fires into the sky.
Requirements for the Air Combat Commands (ACCs) bomber and the gunship are still being drawn up. But, both commands agree on some key characteristics: a degree of low observability (LO)not necessarily full stealthand endurance. The future gunship will look nothing like todays lumbering platform, and it could actually wind up appearing more like a B-2. I dont think the transport next-generation gunship will be on a mobility platform because you are not going to need to carry around all that weight, says Lt. Gen. Michael Wooley, outgoing Afsoc commander. If you are not carrying around that big gun and all of that heavy ammunition you dont need a big [transport] that is in itself vulnerable. Wooley will be replaced by his current vice commander, Maj. Gen. Donald Wurster, later this year.
#2
Sounds fabulously expensive, not at all like the workhorse C-130, which has the woeful attribute of being already built and development expenses long ago amortized.
#3
With the Reaper taking some of the role of the A-10 Warthog, perhaps a complete redesign of the gunship to a drone aircraft is also in order.
One of the big arguments is who would control such an aircraft, the Air Force or the Army. But in this case, the answer should be--both.
That is, the Air Force is needed to get it on time and on target, but then the Army ground control could take over some of the weapons use to attack not only what can be seen from the aircraft, but what they can also see on the ground.
That is, the ground forces have two perspectives on the target area, but the aircraft only has one.
And yet, the plane and its systems are so complex that they do need flight control and direction. Also, the air controllers can also worry about surface to air fire avoidance, damage control, long range observation while a target is being engaged, air coordinations with different aircraft, etc.
#4
While the article downplays an unmanned aircraft, and wanting a live operator to interact with those on the ground, a recent article I read ( cannot remember source, sorry) spoke to the fact that despite repeated pleas by the cockpit crw of an AC-130 to take out a target of opportunity that was inflicting casualties on ground pounders, thier controller would not release them from their assignment of boring holes in the sky. their assigned ground unit had agreed that the services of the gunship were not needed. the author of the article was (or still is) a gunship pilot and this mission was not an exception. so perhaps there are other aspects of this puzzle to be looked at besides hardward.
#5
I kinda sorta thought the whole point of a gunship was a big gun and a huge pile of ammo.
Nope. The point is to kill the enemy. A B-2 carrying 80 SDB with a 200 mile range can deliver a lot of death without ever getting into ground weapon range and needing a titanium bathtub.
Well, yeah. But while the basic concept is kill people and break their stuff, there is also the idea of the right tool for the right job.
Gunship missions are support missions where basic requirements are long loiter times and the ability to put down large volumes of fire. Platform capabilities do overlap, but just because an AC-130, a B-2 and and F-16 can all kinda sorta do the same thing, it does not mean any one excels at what the others do best.
And yes, being alive at the end of the day *is* considered a plus.
#7
A big drone with rockets and a 20mm gun would kinda be nice too.
Either way, ground pounders need something that can put down a curtain of lead on the target. You can crawl up real close and then engage targets when the curtain is lifted and they pop their heads up. Hard to do that with bombs. Too much shit flying back at you. The AC-130 and its children still have a place on the battlefield.
#9
Most definitely not the DREAD system. Trying to correct for centrifugal force on the projectiles is bad enough, never mind what'll happen if that launcher ever sustains a catastrophic hit or damage.
#10
This is nothing new, I read a very similar plan in an old Popular Mechanics Magazine on How to make one to shoot BB's, Date, around 1955. It's essentially a Very high RPM centrifugal water pump, rev it up, drop a BB in the volute and zip, away it goes.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
07/23/2007 18:58 Comments ||
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#12
I was not a ground-pounder, so I probably lack perspective. That said, I would think that there are times when a grunt would like an area continuously hosed with large caliber projectiles and times when he would like an area hit with something that makes one or several big booms. A variety of assets makes for tougher tactical problems for our enemies.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/23/2007 23:59 Comments ||
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But oh my goodness, the illegals are taking over. Heh.
LAWRENCE -- After a lunch of hot dogs and rice, Jordy Berges blasted a ball off the wall of the lunchroom at his mother's office, his stomping grounds for the summer. "No juegues aquí," Yovanna Berges scolded her 7-year-old son, telling him in Spanish to stop.
"Sorry," he answered her, in English.
Berges, an immigrant from Peru, is growing accustomed to such conversations with her son. She is struggling to raise him to speak English and Spanish fluently, which might not seem like a big challenge in the city with the highest proportion of Latinos in Massachusetts. But researchers say Berges and immigrant parents nationwide are confronting a difficult truth: Their children are losing their languages.
According to research presented to Congress in May, even the children of immigrants prefer to speak English by the time they are adults. Rubén G. Rumbaut, a sociologist at the University of California at Irvine, and his team of researchers looked at 5,700 adults in their 20s and 30s in Southern California from different generations to see how long their language survived. A key finding centered on 1,900 American-born children of immigrants. The shift toward English among them was swift: While 87 percent grew up speaking another language at home, only 34 percent said they spoke it well by adulthood. And nearly 70 percent said they preferred to speak English.
"English wins, and it does so in short order," said Rumbaut, who presented his findings to the US House Judiciary subcommittee on immigration in May. "What we're talking about is a real phenomenon."
It is difficult for children to sustain their parents' languages amid the tidal wave of American pop culture, including movies and television, coupled with societal pressure to speak only English. Most schools and communities do little to preserve bilingualism, Rumbaut said. Even bilingual education programs, which Massachusetts voters dismantled in 2002, were commonly designed to help students make the transition to English-only classrooms.
Generations of immigrants have seen their languages fade, but Rumbaut said the cost is higher now as businesses expand overseas, the United States is more diverse, and national security agencies are clamoring for people who speak foreign languages. The children themselves are losing a skill that could give them an edge in the job market.
The erosion of language cuts across all backgrounds, Rumbaut said. In his study, less than 25 percent of the US-born children of Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese immigrants said they spoke their parents' languages well. Chinese is one of the languages President Bush declared a priority for national security last year.
Spanish was found to survive longer, largely because Southern California is a high-immigrant area and Spanish is ubiquitous on television and radio and in newspapers. Still, gaps emerged. Almost all second-generation Mexican- Americans were raised speaking Spanish, but only 60 percent spoke it well by early adulthood, and half preferred English. By the third generation, barely 10 percent spoke Spanish well, according to the study; almost all preferred English.
More at the link on how immigrant parents are failing to keep their kids from speaking English, replete with examples.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/23/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Important note: the ability of their children to speak English is directly proportional to the children's later financial and social success. Fully integrated children of Mexicans tend to rise very quickly up the social and economic ladder. However, those that do not integrate tend to both ghettoize and economically stagnate.
#4
Heh. Resistance is futile(tm). As long as we avoid getting swamped.
Too bad it dosn't work as well on islamonutz.
Posted by: N Guard ||
07/23/2007 6:03 Comments ||
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#5
Do you have any reason to believe it doesn't work as well on Islamonutz? We don't seem to have near the problem the Brits do, though we might if we had the same proportion of Islamonutz as the Brits do. Nonetheless, we do a better job of integrating immigrants, unless they are ghettoized, and sometimes in spite of it.
#6
And yet even in England the next generation don't speak their parents' Urdu, but only English. That's why they're so susceptible to the jihadis, who preach and teach in English.
Separately, the hand wringing is absurd. With a solid passive understanding of the language, active learning is much easier later -- whether of the parents' language or any other -- because the brain is physically prepared for multiple languages in a way that is more primal than when a second language is learnt formally after one can read. I read up on the subject because the trailing daughters spent their first years abroad, and I was concerned about language acquisition issues.
Because it's the Boston Globe and threatens their vision of a multicultural utopia.
But, believe me, you'd learn to speak Klingon if it'd get you the fuck outta Lawrence. And I'd seriously doubt you'd ever find a Globe reporter that lived there. Too...ethnic.
#8
"... The children themselves are losing a skill that could give them an edge in the job market."
Maybe, maybe not. I work for one of the largest globalized firms that is based in Germany.
A friend from the local office took a year long job at the HQ in Waldorf with the added benefit (he thought) of improving his German. When I saw him on a trip over there he said that everything was good EXCEPT he wasn't getting much chance to improve his Deutsch.
Seems like everyone at work speaks mostly English.
Because of globalization English is the universal second language. When you get a group of people together from all the disparate offices the only thing they have in common is ESL.
#9
I'd like to believe this, but I'm still hip neck deep in folks not able to speak English. Not just Spanish, alot of folks now from Ethiopia, Sudan among other far away places, speaking a multitude of languages and dialects.
I like that the youth are learning English, we need to all come together speaking English.
While I was visiting Ireland this summer, I heard that to keep the Gaelic language alive, Ireland was offering free or greatly reduced college if the student spoke Gaelic. Don't know how true this is, maybe just wishful thinking.
The article reports this as a bad thing? WTF? Agreed!
Posted by: Jan ||
07/23/2007 9:56 Comments ||
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#10
Languages, like people, come and go. A tongue and people under attack and the resultant diaspora not commonly discussed is that of the Afrikaaner. In the not too distant future it is very likely that Afrikaans will no longer be spoken, except possibly in the outlands of Namibia, Bostwana, and SA which has no fewer than eleven official languages.
#11
While I feel it's important to keep one's own cultures alive in the home, with a sense of one's identity is a good thing. I do however feel it necessary to come together with one language to communicate.
While I was visiting family in Ireland, a mass was said in Gaelic in my cousins honor, and how I wished I knew the language. My cousins did, but also speak English.
Important note: the ability of their children to speak English is directly proportional to the children's later financial and social success. Fully integrated children of Mexicans tend to rise very quickly up the social and economic ladder. However, those that do not integrate tend to both ghettoize and economically stagnate. How True.
Posted by: Jan ||
07/23/2007 10:55 Comments ||
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#12
Down here in Aztlan (Tucson) there doesn't seem to be much of a struggle...
#13
The international company I know of in Waldorf uses English as its official language. Thus, if a German is talking to a Frenchman, the conversation should be in English; the memos certainly will. I believe this is even true for some French multinationals.
#14
NS Probably the same one since Waldorf ain't all that big. BUT, even the informal communication at work is often in English and there is no big deal made about it. The personnel wandering around is so multi-national that there needs to be some common form of communication.
Not to mention that when I was over there my boss, a true Kraut, and I went to a restaurant.
I asked him what that proper way to order a dark beer was......he turned to the waiter and said "Two dark beers, bitte." ( I was expecting some variant on twzei dunkels )
I'm just trying to make the point that fluent English only is not that big a problem due to the fact that virtually any situation in business can be met with it alone because it is the most common language now across the world.
#15
The pulse of this writing is familiar to me. It reminds me of an argument I have heard from a few of my Spanish-speaking students: if I do well in one thing, I can't-or shouldn't- do well in the other. If I did, I would be denigrating the first thing. Amazing.
If I say my son is a great baseball player, does that mean he won't be able to draw? Or shouldn't draw? The current thinking on this must evolve from either/or-it is possible to be good at both. And Berges, we are in America, querida, so yes, English is heard everywhere, every day.
Learning to speak English isn't eracing this child's Spanish-his mother still speaks to him in Spanish, and he understands her and presumably others in his community that choose to speak in Spanish. Does she somehow object to him speaking to her in English? "Growing accustomed" is an interesting choice of words. I thought she was "struggling to raise him to speak Spanish and English fluently"? Maybe she really meant Spanish first; he knows it and loves her and leaves it at that.
#16
Where that other language comes in handy is in listening to the sotto voce side conversations you weren't meant to understand... and charming the locals by speaking in their language for a little while before they start practicing their English on you. When we lived in Europe, Mr. Wife used his German mostly when dealing with factory workers and consumers in Eastern Europe who happened to speak German rather than English. In the company office, part of his job as an expat was to train his ESL reports to communicate effectively in both American English and the company dialect thereof. He mostly used his expensive Goethe Institut training to read the Frankfurt Algemeine Zeitung.
As a trailing spouse my experience was different. With increased language skills came increased connection with the locals, and a deeper experience. But in Germany the Spanish I'd studied was almost as useful as German, in the social circle that developed, and Korean and Czech or Serb would have been as useful as Spanish for conversing at our barbecues.
#18
It reminds me of an argument I have heard from a few of my Spanish-speaking students: if I do well in one thing, I can't-or shouldn't- do well in the other. If I did, I would be denigrating the first thing.
Good catch, and good point, Jules. Is this attitude a Hispanic cultural thing?
#19
One of the reasons English has a leg up, so to speak, on being the international language is its flexibility. I've read several articles on international language that stress how much easier it is to add a new word or a new concept in English, compared to European, Asian, or African languages. That also makes it much harder to learn, especially with some of the arcane rules of language that exist in English. I always tried to learn as much of the local language as I could when I was travelling in Europe, as a courtesy. I also found that English was widespread, and made communications much easier.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
07/23/2007 20:55 Comments ||
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#20
There is definitely great love, I would say, tw, of their language of origin-which I get. On the other extreme, I have also seen instances of a kind of linguistic chauvinism in places like LA and NYC. Invasive, proprietary.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Zimbabwe is to revive two dormant state companies to spearhead its recently announced policy of taking 51 per cent of the shares of privately owned businesses.
CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that foreigners who publicly criticize him or his government while visiting Venezuela will be expelled from the country. Chavez ordered officials to closely monitor statements made by international figures during their visits to Venezuela _ and deport any outspoken critics.
CNOOCs willingness to strike an oil deal with the fragile government of Somalia, which has been a failed state for more than a decade, has provided stark evidence of Chinas willingness to brave terrain that western oil majors deem too treacherous. The state-owned Chinese oil giant has signed a production-sharing deal with the transitional federal government in the east African country, which ranks as a high-risk frontier even in an industry well accustomed to dangerous environments.
