Article

2014-02-13 Africa North

New US Navy map: Multitude Forces available during Benghazi attack.

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Posted by Besoeker 2014-02-13 05:13|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 Not to slam the USAF officer who requested the information, but from a professional viewpoint, there was only one vessel that might have made it in less than a day, and that was the one in Crete.

Crete is a little over 300 nautical miles from Benghazi, so the ship might have made it by noon the next day at the earliest, had it been able to recall its crew and sailed at 30 knots after it got underway upon word of the attack. What it could have done then in the way of support is unclear.

The Mount Whitney is a command ship, the next closest naval asset, is also mainly crewed by the Military Sealift Command. She has little combat capability. She too was in port.

The third closest was the one in Rota. Same conditions as the one in Crete, but it'd have been at least a day's sail.

There was a news report on 24 October 2012, that the USN had "moved two ships off the coast of Libya," but this map does not show that, unless it's the two previously mentioned that were moved later.

Posted by Pappy 2014-02-13 10:09|| 2014-02-13 10:09|| Front Page Top

#2 Socom had assets and USAF had transport. Navy/marine recon was able to provide follow on, as was the army (via air) rangers.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-02-13 10:36|| 2014-02-13 10:36|| Front Page Top

#3 I saw this yesterday and, in my ignorance of all things military, it seems that the only thing that could have been there quickly would have been something from the Eisenhower to provide close air support.

Of course I don't know if:
a) that's even possible;
b) that, given a), it would be helpful;
c) would have caused hostilities with someone between the carrier and the target.

Posted by AlanC 2014-02-13 10:48|| 2014-02-13 10:48|| Front Page Top

#4 I know very, very little of maritime operations and capabilities, but the map below depicts US Embassies and Consulates in the region experiencing some level of difficulty in the lead-up to 9/11 - 9/12. If planners intended to predict areas of potential difficulty requiring NEO or other contingency operation, it would appear a study of facility clusters and proximity to available US forces would have been an obvious 'before the boom' first step. This map is not interactive and provides no scale, but an obvious cluster is found in the western med. While they may have been ignored, I cannot accept the notion that no thought was given to predictive analysis inputs.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-02-13 10:48|| 2014-02-13 10:48|| Front Page Top

#5 Correction to above: Central and Eastern Med, apologies.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-02-13 12:05|| 2014-02-13 12:05|| Front Page Top

#6 Navy ships? I don't like what happened, but to suggest that aircraft flown from the Gulf of Rumsfield across multiple airspaces for a situation which could have been over quicker than you can say Vegas fundraiser is not a serious point. Not when there is an air base in Sicily which ~~actively struck Daffy military targets~~ enforced a UN no-fly zone.

I would have wanted to kamikaze the drone into the lead attackers or mortar group, but hey popcorn and a movie, then Vegas baby, Vegas.

Posted by swksvolFF 2014-02-13 15:44|| 2014-02-13 15:44|| Front Page Top

#7 Navy/marine recon was able to provide follow on, as was the army (via air) rangers.

Perhaps, but that was not covered in the article.

Per the article, the USAF Lieutenant Colonel's argument was that there were "destroyers" that could have made it to Benghazi. My considered professional opinion is that yes, there were. But not in time to have made a difference, or contributed much had they flown there as if they were F-16s.

Posted by Pappy 2014-02-13 15:47|| 2014-02-13 15:47|| Front Page Top

#8 The LCS could have gotten there in a timely manner from Cyprus, I mean if it wasn't welded to the pier. Couldn't have done anything tho.

Posted by Shipman 2014-02-13 16:16|| 2014-02-13 16:16|| Front Page Top

#9 I like what Bill whittle said:

(Starts about 7:40 or 7:50)

Posted by CrazyFool 2014-02-13 16:21|| 2014-02-13 16:21|| Front Page Top

#10 AlanC if it read like I'm sounding at you, I'm not, I just do not really get the point. Only thing I could think of is to load the sub copter up with on-board Marines and badasses and take off at the earliest possible moment depending upon fuel considerations and potential safe landing zones. It would have to star Bruce Willis and no guarantee of a happy ending ~~and hopefully not co-starring the AA missiles being traded at the Benghazi Arms Market, LLC~~.

Posted by swksvolFF 2014-02-13 18:35|| 2014-02-13 18:35|| Front Page Top

#11 swksvolFF,

All I was trying to do was ask if there were any units that really could have given any significant support with that deployment.

I know less than 0 about these things other than what I've read in R'burg and equivalents. It seems to me that a ship not loaded with troops and capable of amphibious landing would be no help at all. I thought maybe if carriers carry something that can do close air support like in the Gulf Wars they might have blown some holes in the attacking mob but it seemed unlikely.

IF you send aircraft, FA-18s?, from the Persian Gulf they have to cross a number of unfriendly places that didn't sound so good and would they have to be refueled in that distance?

Short of someone saying Alan, you're an a$$hole, I never take anything in the 'burg personally. I've learned alot here and am thrilled to be among people who have similar views. Cheers.

Posted by AlanC 2014-02-13 19:06|| 2014-02-13 19:06|| Front Page Top

#12 Good attitude, AC.

Posted by Skidmark 2014-02-13 19:18|| 2014-02-13 19:18|| Front Page Top

#13 Whether a rescue effort would have had time enough to effect a rescue of the AMBO, Smith, and SEALS can be debated. What CANNOT be debated is the total abandonment of the American facility, property, and flag. A decision was obviously made to write off the entire effort. I believe the decision was made early on, and sadly included Stevens and the others.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-02-13 19:22|| 2014-02-13 19:22|| Front Page Top

#14 No. There were ample assets, just a lack of will to use them. Here is a course of action that would have been aggressive, but possible.

There were multiple naval assets that could have brought in cruise missiles in an hour. Plenty of time to tell the good guys to cover up before hosing down the neighborhood. That would have quickly dispersed the attackers.

Further, there were combat aircraft in Italy ready to go and could have been overhead in a couple hours to ensure no further enemy action on the ground.

Until the ships began to arrive in 12-24 hours to evacuate the survivors.

And don't forget that all the submarines' positions are not on that map. There was probably one right off the coast.

Posted by rammer 2014-02-13 20:01|| 2014-02-13 20:01|| Front Page Top

#15 ..I suspect there are a lot of political "lets cut our losses" backstories that will (shall would be better) someday come out..

Posted by Uncle Phester 2014-02-13 21:43|| 2014-02-13 21:43|| Front Page Top

#16 Great attitude, No I was mad at the article and re-read, read like I might have been after you. I don't understand the purpose of the article or why that site posted it. Throwing around military creds like that and the unthinkers will go around Oh, but we had a destroyer over there and a carrier groups! That kind of talk would make the whole group of questioners look silly.

Posted by swksvolFF 2014-02-13 21:53|| 2014-02-13 21:53|| Front Page Top

#17 Yuuup.

US MilPersonnel are trained to defend their ship or base iff necessary from ground or other conventional assault - even iff there were no dedicated Mil Rescue or SPECOPS, etc. assets available, a bunch of heavily-armed professional USN Sailors or Other would had been more than a match for the untrained or paramilitary, non-professional soldier Hard Boyz, + COULD HAD ARRIVED IN TIME [unilaterally or jointly] TO SAVE MOST OR ALL OF THEM.

US, WORLD MILITARY HISTORY IS FILLED WID EXAMPLES AS ABOVE.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2014-02-13 22:04|| 2014-02-13 22:04|| Front Page Top

#18 Yuuup.

US MilPersonnel are trained to defend their ship or base iff necessary from ground or other conventional assault - even iff there were no dedicated Mil Rescue or SPECOPS, etc. assets available, a bunch of heavily-armed professional USN Sailors or Other would had been more than a match for the untrained or paramilitary, non-professional soldier Hard Boyz, + COULD HAD ARRIVED IN TIME [unilaterally or jointly] TO SAVE MOST OR ALL OF THEM.

US, WORLD MILITARY HISTORY IS FILLED WID EXAMPLES AS ABOVE.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2014-02-13 22:05|| 2014-02-13 22:05|| Front Page Top

#19 And why is this Air Force guy talking Navy; if he wanted to shed some light why not go for Air Squadron locations?

We shall fight in the shade! to We are shadey about the fight. Its September 10, binney is dead, reports of riots, I find it hard to believe that there were no QRFs and air patrols (investigate hijackings) ready, and that nobody was keyed to at least start heading that direction, just in case.

Posted by swksvolFF 2014-02-13 22:34|| 2014-02-13 22:34|| Front Page Top

23:10 JosephMendiola
23:08 USN, Ret.
23:03 USN, Ret.
22:40 mossomo
22:38 Besoeker
22:38 Charles
22:37 swksvolFF
22:36 swksvolFF
22:36 mossomo
22:34 swksvolFF
22:05 JosephMendiola
22:04 JosephMendiola
21:53 swksvolFF
21:52 Frank G
21:51 Frank G
21:51 ryuge
21:43 Uncle Phester
21:37 Uncle Phester
21:13 CrazyFool
21:12 Frank G
21:10 Frank G
21:05 JohnQC
20:50 Thing From Snowy Mountain
20:49 OldSpook