Article

2005-03-14 Europe

EUROCHAMBRES Study: US economy ahead of EU by at least 20 years!

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Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-03-14 8:07:50 AM|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Then of course there is the Kyoto economic suicide pact.

Posted by phil_b 2005-03-14 8:45:07 AM|| 2005-03-14 8:45:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Face it the European Union is a economic falure before it even starts. The UK should have second thoughts about tossing it's economy down the outhouse.

Face it EUites your FÃ¶Ã¶ked.

Posted by Sock Puppet Oâ Doom 2005-03-14 8:57:37 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2005-03-14 8:57:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 SPoD, don't let Aris hear you. ;)

Posted by Laurence of the Rats 2005-03-14 10:52:40 AM|| [http://www.punictreachery.com/] 2005-03-14 10:52:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 The problem is that there is a bunch of cooks and not enough waiters. (or pick another metaphor) No central government with supreme power, no checks and balances, no single driving vision, etc. The idea of the EU is a good thing, we always need competition in a free market, but the Europeans fooked it up so badly they need to dissolve it and try again in a few years.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-03-14 11:01:59 AM|| 2005-03-14 11:01:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 The idea of the EU is a good thing

mmurray, don't let most Rantburgers hear you. ;-)

And as for central government with supreme power and single driving vision -- for shame! :-) Are you suggesting a *loss of sovereignty*, the same kind of thing that makes most Rantburgers and most Brits go apeshit when they hear about it?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-03-14 11:23:17 AM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-03-14 11:23:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 mmurray82, almost right. That's "a bunch of crooks....."

Posted by RWV 2005-03-14 12:24:43 PM|| 2005-03-14 12:24:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 The US constitution is based on several principals that the EU would have profited mightily from, had they known the history of the thing. For example, the large, heavily populated states' interests are balanced against the small states by having a bicameral legislature: one house that favors the large states, and the other house with equal representation. A brilliant notion, and just one example. Their problems and their solutions are very well documented, however, and it is amazing that the Europeans ignored them.

But the basic problem remains the tragic Continental problem (Britain exempted) of the use of Roman and Napoleonic Law as the foundation of government. They have been disastrous as far as civil rights and freedom are concerned, and should be discarded in favor of Common Law throughout the EU government. Without Common Law principals the EU will never be a fair, equitable, balanced or just place. It is cursed to be a bureaucratic state, ruled by a self-appointed elite class that is unresponsive to the people.

If the EU cannot change this lethal part of its character, it is doomed to decay and collapse. I am not betting on success.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-03-14 12:26:02 PM|| 2005-03-14 12:26:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Aris, don't you argue sovereignty with me. I'm still bashing San Francisco for not being New York. :-P

Posted by Edward Yee 2005-03-14 1:02:55 PM|| 2005-03-14 1:02:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Less betting on failure, more WORKING for failure ...

Posted by Edward Yee 2005-03-14 1:03:41 PM|| 2005-03-14 1:03:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 The EU Constitution is what happens when you ignore basic principles in self governance and proceed with writing the Code of Federal regulations.

Posted by badanov 2005-03-14 1:11:14 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org] 2005-03-14 1:11:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Their problems and their solutions are very well documented, however, and it is amazing that the Europeans ignored them.

Not amazing - typical and symptomatic. Their loss.

Posted by Unagum Elmang5856 2005-03-14 1:19:48 PM|| 2005-03-14 1:19:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 For example, the large, heavily populated states' interests are balanced against the small states by having a bicameral legislature: one house that favors the large states, and the other house with equal representation

Tell me what do you know about the double qualified majority principle in the Council of the European Union? Wouldn't you say it works using the same principle?

Too bad that the big-vs-small has not actually been so much of a problem compared to the supranational-vs-intergovernmental issue.

Their problems and their solutions are very well documented, however, and it is amazing that the Europeans ignored them.

Bullshit.

We didn't ignore your solutions to *your* problems. It just happened that *our* problems were different ones, no matter how you may try to forget it.

Tell me: what, if anything, exists in the US Constitution, would have made Britain more likely to desire to sign up to it?

Answer: nothing at all.

Everyone who thinks that the US Constitution solutions would have solved the problems the EU faced over the Constitution, has simply no clue about what those disputes were.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-03-14 3:02:52 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-03-14 3:02:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 The US Constitution is a compact, well-written document. The EU is a giant clusterf*ck, like the Texas Constitution. Cheers!

Posted by Brett 2005-03-14 3:06:55 PM|| 2005-03-14 3:06:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 The US Constitution is a compact, well-written document.

And when the First Amendment starts with "Congress shall make no law", why do most people think it applies to government as a whole, regardless of whether on a federal or state level?

Virtual first amendment

The EU (Constitution) is a giant clusterf*ck

Well yes, it is -- I think its creators were more thinking of finding compromises for the current disputes plaguing the Union, rather than making it into an *elegant* document. Their mistake.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-03-14 3:31:33 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-03-14 3:31:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 And when the First Amendment starts with "Congress shall make no law", why do most people think it applies to government as a whole, regardless of whether on a federal or state level?

Because of the 14th amendment, ignoramus.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-03-14 3:35:34 PM|| 2005-03-14 3:35:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Because of the 14th amendment, ignoramus.

Ouch, that's gotta hurt.

Posted by AzCat 2005-03-14 4:05:31 PM|| 2005-03-14 4:05:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 At least it seems to have shut the little bugger up for a while, thank goodness.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-03-14 5:06:36 PM|| 2005-03-14 5:06:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Mrs D. & AzCat

Aris is clueless to the American mindset. It needs to be pointed out to AK where he has no concept of American government structure. And if he at least understands where we Americans are coming from, that is a start...

AK is Euro-intoxicated, and can see none of the flaws of Big Brother, that we as Americans, well MOST of us see in a bunch of verbage. This verbage is designed to give more little Caeser gratification to added layers of bureaucrats who don't have a life themselves...

Posted by BigEd 2005-03-14 5:18:43 PM|| 2005-03-14 5:18:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 I don't mind Aris being clueless. I've been clueless a couple of times today. But I'm fed up with the holier than thou arrogance that demeans anyone who disagrees with him and invites flame wars. Aris is just a punk know it all college kid, and we've got plenty of them on this side of the pond. Who knows, some of us may have been more obnoxious at his age. I'm just tired of it. It's not why I come here.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-03-14 5:26:01 PM|| 2005-03-14 5:26:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Actually I was "shut up" because I was watching a movie.

How "compact" is a Constitution that needs a 14th amendment to explain the 1st? :-)

Cheers, Mrs Davis. Check out Anonymoose post at #7, speaking about "brilliant notions" that Europeans are supposedly utterly ignorant of (like bicameral parliaments -- wow, it's not as if France, Germany, Spain, Netherlands, etc all have bicameral parliaments do they?), and how America solved more than 200 years ago *all* the problems that could possibly ever be faced by Europe today if stoopid Europeans only had the wits to give the US Constitution a glance (not that he knows which problems and disputes EU is *actually* facing, he simply assumes that they were same as the ones the US founders faced) -- and then talk to me about arrogance.

My utterly arrogant ignorance about America only comes to the front only after some American is utterly arrogantly ignorant about Europe instead.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-03-14 5:48:49 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-03-14 5:48:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Let's no forget that the EU "Constitution" was written by a man (Giscard d'Estaing) whose presidency saw unprecedented scandals (eg the "sniffing planes") and who allied with such parangons of virtue like Mobutu and Bokassa. The later was notorious as a child torturer but also as a donator of precious stones to Giscard: cf the diamond affair (affaire des diamants in French).

Posted by JFM 2005-03-14 6:03:39 PM|| 2005-03-14 6:03:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Forget to tell Aris I know a lot more about Giscard than him.

Posted by JFM 2005-03-14 6:05:15 PM|| 2005-03-14 6:05:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 I never said you didn't. I've no interest in sanctifying Giscard or anyone else. Thanks for the information.

Should I research on the moral character of Jefferson? I'd find it largely irrelevant in discussing the quality of their works, though.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-03-14 6:36:16 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-03-14 6:36:16 PM|| Front Page Top

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