A group of Saudi Women have expressed their disapproval concerning a statement signed by 500 conservative women and addressed to crown Prince Abdullah Bin AbdulAziz, in which they requested that women should not be allowed to drive.
Might one be so bold as to suggest that if you don't want to, don't do it? And to let any other women who do want to do it do so? That's probably too complicated for the Arabian mind, though...
The statement also demanded that editorials in newspapers, which aim to westernize women and bring them out of their homes be ignored.
Well, see? I you were properly illiterate, then you couldn't read them, could you? On the other hand, even though you are presumably literate, your real gripe is probably with the guy holding the gun to your heads forcing you to read them.
The letter was signed by 14 academics from the Jeddah and Mecca Universities, the girls' education colleges in the Mecca area, 3 doctors, 7 health workers, 93 teachers, 12 workers, 93 college students, 79 high school students, and 123 educated homemakers. They demanded that the woman should not be allowed to drive a car since this subjects her to harassment in public places, markets, and in front of girls' schools. They also demanded the establishment of a women's ministry run by sharia clerics.
Right. That'll make things all better. Shoulda thought of that before...
Saudi businesswoman Raja al-Munif expressed her surprise at the appearance of such statements and said, "These people are crazy demands are strange. How can they demand a ministry for women that is run by men?" She asked, "A woman is a human being. So how can she not manage her own affairs? As to driving a car, she said, "The woman is free and driving will not be a duty imposed on her".
Bingo! Raja gets it. Of course, since she does, she must be killed. The Women's Ministry (run by mullahs) will no doubt take care of that...
Commenting on their talk that the woman's place is her house, Raja al-Munif said, "There are academics, doctors, and teachers. Let them leave their work and universities."
I've long since come to the conclusion that Arabs don't feel silly like we do...
Posted by: Fred ||
07/31/2005 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[5 views]
Top|| File under:
Might one be so bold as to suggest that if you don't want to, don't do it? And to let any other women who do want to do it do so? That's probably too complicated for the Arabian mind, though...
SF9749-Didn't Aladdin always drive the carpet, and Jasmine just ride?
#4
... anyone check and verify those 500 signatures? (Yes, I mean what I'm implying.)
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
07/31/2005 1:29 Comments ||
Top||
#5
Edward, you'd probably find that the signatures are real.
It's probably easy to find 500 women in the very-well-off families who feel this way, and think that anyone who isn't well-off enough to afford the luxury of purdah should shut up and suffer (and probably slowly die off or something).
(When it was part of Hinduism, it was generally practiced by the higher-caste/class women, and not the lower castes, for instance.)
Remember that article a while back about the Jordanian general, where they said that the Bedouin, way back when, didn't follow rules like that? They probably couldn't afford it.
I also have wondered for a long while... in the old days, when many Moslems worked as traders, and were gone from their home for much of the year, how were the womenfolk supposed to survive with the "don't leave home without a male relative as escort" custom?
I don't _know_, but my theory is that in places like 12th century Afghanistan, they weren't as literal-minded about Islam (or about the caste-based practices inherited from Hinduism in the area, which have also been discussed here) as they are in Saudi Arabia today.
Comments?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
07/31/2005 2:15 Comments ||
Top||
#6
Fred sed:
Might one be so bold as to suggest that if you don't want to, don't do it? And to let any other women who do want to do it do so?
This issue is about more than women driving cars. It pervades the arab/muslim worldview. British Muslims don't like bra ads? Remove them. No churches (and heaven forbid, synagogues!) in most muslim countries. And so on, and so on.
There is an intolerance of tolerance. The live-and-let-live policies of factions our own left AND right, universally do not apply to the arab world. Instead of "freedom", they choose submission. And this is only one way in which that plays out.
#7
When I was on the Arabian Peninsula, I was told that rich Muslimutts who have 4 wives, always marry one fat and ugly one as dishwasher and housekeeper. I would bet that they 500 Saud hags are the ugly skanks, and are trying to assuage shame by kissing up to their masters.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler ||
07/31/2005 3:03 Comments ||
Top||
#8
.com said #2 Indoctrination from birth is certainly effective, no?
That's exactly the Feminist Plan executed on our campuses. There is but one true god....just different at UC Berkley.
#9
I suspect that the 500 conservative women have more than met their match.
Posted by: Captain America ||
07/31/2005 10:53 Comments ||
Top||
#10
I've read that many saudi women have hired drivers.
They are allowed to be alone in cars with men not related to them?
Posted by: john ||
07/31/2005 18:50 Comments ||
Top||
#11
I imagine the drivers are thought of as a kind of family retainer, john, rather than as an unrelated male. As such, the man would have a feudalistic-style responsibility to the male head of the household, to keep the family's females safe. That's the only way I can rationalize it, anyway. Mr. Wife so hated the time he spent working in Saudi Arabia, that he told me very few stories. Not like India, from which he brought me back tales and cookbooks! ;-)
#12
I also have wondered for a long while... in the old days, when many Moslems worked as traders, and were gone from their home for much of the year, how were the womenfolk supposed to survive with the "don't leave home without a male relative as escort" custom?
Slaves. A slave could go to the market -- male or female, didn't matter, because an attack on a slave was a matter of property, not honor.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/31/2005 19:43 Comments ||
Top||
#13
tw's description is spot-on. Yes, the husband or father can hire a driver, usually Indian or Pakistani. He sits in front and she in back. But he is much more likely to be a household servant and driving only one of his duties.
#14
So don't drive already. And stay home, too. Who gives a shit?
But if you want to keep not driving and staying home, you'd better remind your "men" (and I use the term loosely) that the rest of the women in this world don't "think" the same way you do and they'd best not be trying to force your pathetic way of life on us.
I'll leave the "or else" to your fevered imaginations. I'm sure it will involve the Joooooos somehow. :-(
Wotta buncha LOSERS.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/31/2005 22:06 Comments ||
Top||
#15
So basically, noone who can't afford a Paki indentured servant (or in the old days, a slave) can be considered, in the opinion of these guys, to be devout?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
07/31/2005 22:33 Comments ||
Top||
Two dozen Venezuelans shouting pro-government slogans hurled rocks and bottles into a crowd of more than 2,000 opposition protesters who marched Saturday through Caracas to demand a more independent electoral council. Some protesters fled as rocks and bottles landed near them. Others continued their march until reaching a police barricade a block away from the electoral council. No injuries were reported in one of the largest opposition rallies in recent months. Groups opposed to President Hugo Chavez's leftist government held the protest a week before Aug. 7 municipal elections, saying they are concerned about possible irregularities ahead of that vote as well as congressional elections set for December.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/31/2005 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[3 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Why? Just because Hugo's gonna have a 20 billion slush fund by then? Pish tosh...
#1
It looks like a previously unknown Ebola-like virus spread to humans by contact with pig blood. No real risk unless you are chinese pig farmer or a Chicom official who is faced with having to cull millions of pigs.
Best guess is, it was spread by animal waste in pig feed like mad cow.
#2
Best guess is, it was spread by animal waste in pig feed like mad cow.
Sorry phil_b, unwashed chopsticks is the likey vector. Chopstick Hygiene is way curable.
Posted by: Red rover ||
07/31/2005 2:46 Comments ||
Top||
#3
There is some speculation that portions of this Ebola variant may have recombined with Type A flu (H5N1) that has been raging in the area. Or the other way round.
#5
But wouldn't China do that anyway, phil b? Look at their response to the SARS virus -- total denial until it was traced back to them. You don't think SARS was a biowarfare experiment, too, do you?
#6
No, SARS wasn't a bioweapon. Occam's Razor sez this is just communist coverup and paranioa, but China is under a lot of scrutiny because of bird flu and there is no obvious reason to actively stop journalists reporting on something that on the face of it is no worse than mad cow.
The bioweapon bit comes from a chinese language report apparently from someone who worked on sequencing one or more viral samples. He said it contained genetic material from 3 different viruses. These days you can determine a lot about the origins of a viral sample from sequencing and could probably tell if it was engineered or not.
Anyway, until the Chicoms admit this is more than a common bacterial infection (in pigs), which its not, its viral, I'll remain suspicious.
#7
Swine Fever appears to have some similar symptoms to viral hemorrhagic fevers although it is clearly bacterial in causation. It can be spread by casual contact with anything that had contact with the infection. It's one reason that many pig farms in the United States require you to change clothes and sanitize your boots before entering the barn. At the State College I once worked at, the swine facility required a clean suit type arrangement.
Any mix of Ebola and H5N1 genes in a virus would be a clear indication of manmade origin. The viruses exist thousands of miles apart in the natural state.
And, yes, the Chinese could be lying about all of this, number of illnesses, number of deaths, and virus versus bacteria. Remember that China had the highest number of SARS cases and the lowest death rate of any country with a significant outbreak. If you believe them...
BOSTON --Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., is heading for Nantucket with plans for an Aug. 12 fundraiser.
Former President Bill Clinton and his wife will spend a week on Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket vacationing and attending the fundraiser. Proceeds will come from many shady characters go to Hillary Clinton's re-election campaign.
The fundraiser will be held at the Nantucket home of Elizabeth Frawley Bagley and Smith W. Bagley. The Bagleys are Democratic activists who have previously hosted the Clintons.
Tickets to the event will cost $1,000, The Boston Sunday Globe reported.
#1
There will also be a silent auction of US national defense secrets.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/31/2005 14:22 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Gee, wiz! Will Johnnie and Teddie be there, too? All that leftism on the right coast gotta cause some sorta imbalance!
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/31/2005 16:37 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Too bad they won't have a view of all the environmentaly correct wind turbines that could be operating out in the sound if Teedy hadn't gotten petulant
A new American-led initiative to combat global warming met with a cool reaction yesterday as Europe and environmentalists warned that it risked undermining the Kyoto Protocol.
To the bewilderment and irritation of some of Washington's allies who knew nothing in advance of the pact, America, Australia, China, India, South Korea and Japan unveiled a plan yesterday to seek new technology to cut greenhouse gas emissions.
Robert Zoellick, the US deputy secretary of state, insisted the Asia-Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate was not a threat to the Kyoto agreement, which sets strict targets for cuts in emissions by 2012.
America and Australia are the only developed nations to have refused to sign up to Kyoto. They say it penalises industrialised nations by not incorporating developing nations, and also that it threatens jobs.
"We are not detracting from Kyoto in any way at all. We are complementing it," Mr Zoellick said, as the plan was announced in the Laotian capital, Vientiane, on the sidelines of an Asian security forum. "Our goal is to complement other treaties with practical solutions to problems," he said.
The new initiative does not set targets for emissions, as desired by Britain at the Gleneagles G8 summit earlier this month. Rather it calls for voluntary unenforceable targets, and also for new technologies from "clean coal" and wind power to a new generation of nuclear fission to reduce pollution and address fears over climate change.
Washington has long been looking for a way to sideline Kyoto and hailed the involvement of China and India, two of the world's major polluters, which have ratified Kyoto but are not subject to the 2012 deadline.
But it met scepticism in Brussels, where a European Commission spokesman expressed concerns about its emphasis on exploring cleaner technologies, rather than efforts to reduce energy consumption.
Leading environmentalists also expressed misgivings. Lord May of Oxford, president of the Royal Society, said: "The science points to the need for a Herculean effort to make massive cuts in the amount of greenhouse gases that we pump into the atmosphere. So, while this encouraging new deal may play a role in this, it will only be part, and not all, of the solution.
"But we have serious concerns that the apparent lack of targets in this deal means that there is no sense of what it is ultimately trying to achieve or the urgency of taking action to combat climate change. And the developed countries involved with this agreement must not be tempted to use it as an excuse to avoid tackling their own emissions."
The plan was hatched in secret over the last year and took British officials by surprise, although this was denied by a spokesman for the Department of Environment Food and Rural Affairs.
"We have known about this in general for some time. We welcome any action taken by governments to reduce greenhouse gases in order to combat dangerous climate change," said a Defra spokesman.
John Howard, Australia's prime minister, who is seen in some conservative circles in Washington as President George W Bush's only ideologically consistent ally, called the deal a "historic agreement" and "superior to the Kyoto protocol". Heh. Rock on, John.
#1
And Reagen actually pushed for a reduction in overall nuke holdings rather than an agreed to higher ceiling of previous treaties, only to be portrayed as a warmonger. Its all about power, never about the particular subject matter being spit out by the critics.
#2
The Kyoto supporters don't like the new agreement because it doesn't transfer wealth from the Big Bad US and Australia to the Poor, Little developing Nations. In this regard it does conflict with Kyoto. Kyoto has never really been about reducing "greenhoud gasses" but the transfer of wealth. The new agreement does promise real reductions through technological advances. The only thing the Kyoto agreement does is ask people in developed countries to quit driving and quit generating electricity while encouraging India, China, and undeveloped countries to increase production of "greenhouse gasses".
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/31/2005 10:53 Comments ||
Top||
#3
You got it, Deacon. Transfer of wealth. Not solving the problem. Fundamental Fatal flaw of Kyoto.
"Our goal is to complement other treaties with practical solutions to problems," he said.
Diplospeak, for sure by Robert Zoellick, but right on the mark. The group's aim is to solve problems, to bring every up. Not bring the countries with wealth down. Hope that it works out.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/31/2005 12:57 Comments ||
Top||
#4
That bastard Bush! First he liberates Afghanistan and Iraq, then he inks an agreement that actually does something about emissions, unlike that feel-good Kyoto pap. Will the horror never end?
Luzerne County will soon begin outfitting repeat drunken driving offenders with an ankle bracelet that detects alcohol in perspiration.
The 8-ounce device samples the wearer's perspiration at least every hour and collects, stores and sends data to a monitoring agency. It also detects and reports attempts to tamper with the device, such as trying to insert something to block the sweat.
The device, Secure Continuous Remote Alcohol Monitor, or SCRAM, will start being used in a week or two, county Probation Services Director Paul McGarry said.
Approximately 280 courts and agencies in 30 states currently use the bracelets, which have been manufactured since 2003 by Colorado-based Alcohol Monitoring Systems Inc., company spokeswoman Kathleen Brown said.
Judges typically order repeat DUI offenders to not drink alcohol. Offenders wearing the bracelets won't have to be held in county prison, so the devices will save the county money, McGarry said.
Luzerne County plans to use 25 to 30 of the ankle monitors as a condition for offenders to remain on bond or probation, she said. Few people are aware that probation isn't a choice, that is, an alcoholic could not opt to remain in jail rather than be on probation with such a device on him. In essense, it turns his disease into a crime, and being an addict into guaranteed extra punishment beyond his other crime.
#1
Damn these misleading headlines! When I read that, I thought this would help me find the nearest pub when I'm traveling. Thanks for getting my hopes up and then dashing them, 'moose!
Posted by: Dar ||
07/31/2005 21:37 Comments ||
Top||
Ugandans voted overwhelmingly in support of their country's return to a multiparty system, which was banned for 19 years by a president who argued that he needed to keep tribal divisions in check. According to final results announced Saturday by the Electoral Commission chairman, 92.5 percent of voters cast ballots in favor of allowing multiparty politics after nearly two decades of President Yoweri Museveni's so-called "no-party democracy" in the East African nation. About 47 percent of Uganda's 8.5 million registered voters participated in the referendum Thursday, said the chairman, Badru Kiggundu. No minimum turnout was required to make the referendum valid.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/31/2005 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[3 views]
Top|| File under:
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
A group of Saudi Women have expressed their disapproval concerning a statement signed by 500 conservative women and addressed to crown Prince Abdullah Bin AbdulAziz, in which they requested that women should not be allowed to drive. 
Two dozen Venezuelans shouting pro-government slogans hurled rocks and bottles into a crowd of more than 2,000 opposition protesters who marched Saturday through Caracas to demand a more independent electoral council. Some protesters fled as rocks and bottles landed near them. Others continued their march until reaching a police barricade a block away from the electoral council. No injuries were reported in one of the largest opposition rallies in recent months. Groups opposed to President Hugo Chavez's leftist government held the protest a week before Aug. 7 municipal elections, saying they are concerned about possible irregularities ahead of that vote as well as congressional elections set for December.
Ugandans voted overwhelmingly in support of their country's return to a multiparty system, which was banned for 19 years by a president who argued that he needed to keep tribal divisions in check. According to final results announced Saturday by the Electoral Commission chairman, 92.5 percent of voters cast ballots in favor of allowing multiparty politics after nearly two decades of President Yoweri Museveni's so-called "no-party democracy" in the East African nation. About 47 percent of Uganda's 8.5 million registered voters participated in the referendum Thursday, said the chairman, Badru Kiggundu. No minimum turnout was required to make the referendum valid.
