From BBC News
Papers in the Middle East have broadly welcomed the Arab League's attempts to resolve the crisis in the Darfur region of Sudan within the Arab fold. [They] argue that Arabs must unite to fight the "conspiracy" against Sudan. Suspicion of US motives and possible foreign intervention in the region continues to be widespread. ....
The Arab initiative to help Sudan is welcomed by the UAE's Al-Bayan, but the paper attacks the prospect of intervention from beyond. "Let those who are conspiring against Sudan understand that the Arab effort in Cairo is not just to assist Sudan in confronting the Darfur crisis, but also to lift the suffering of the region." .... Al-Bayan is also critical of the United Nations' resolution that requires that the Sudanese government disarm the Arab Janjaweed militia and restore order by the end of August. "The UN resolution, and the international warning, do not give Khartoum enough time to resolve the Darfur crisis."
Oman's pro-government Oman also attacks the end-of-August deadline imposed on Sudan while expressing support for Khartoum's position. "There are those who are conspiring against Sudan because they don't want it to live in peace... Without doubt, the Sudanese government's reaction to the UN Security Council resolution, despite its reservations, was a wise one."
According to the Saudi centrist Ukaz, "Sudanese voices calling for unity have sharpened in a bid to confront any armed foreign intervention to resolve the Darfur crisis."
The Saudi pro-government paper Al-Riyadh focuses its criticism on what it sees as a lack of Arab unity as well as an American desire to insert itself in the region. ... "Sudan is the next meal, which is also in the hands of experienced chefs, particularly at a time when the race for the White House is on."
Sudan's Al-Ra'i Al-Am also attacks the United States. "America wants to give its intervention in Sudan a moral cover. However, its intervention will be its great loss. ... A Sudanese fights with the faith that if he dies, he is a martyr with paradise awaiting him. This is the most sublime goal of his jihad. As for the American soldier, what does he hope to achieve with his death? He fights with no objective and a keenness to remain alive. A mujahid is keen on death."
In Egypt's pro-government Al-Ahram, a commentary, while acknowledging the human tragedy, wonders whether Sudan will be able to avoid being subject to "foreign ambitions .... No-one can deny that the government of Sudan has tried to tackle this tragic situation... [But] will Darfur and Sudan be saved through reform or will they be subject to foreign ambitions and interests?"
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/10/2004 11:50:44 PM ||
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Anthony Higgins, the Irishman shot dead in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday, had been threatened in the past over his failure to acknowledge local customs.
Wouldn't convert, huh?
The civil engineer, who had worked in Saudi Arabia for more than two decades, had been warned by local businessmen to play down Catholicism in an Islamic country, friends said this weekend. It is also claimed that Higgins was told to respect the Saudi way of life and its culture. Higgins, 59, who was described as a religious man, had told friends about the threats but they had not thought his life was in danger. Higgins, from Galway, was shot by two gunmen who burst into his office in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, on Tuesday. He was shot four times in the head and the chest with silenced machine pistols.
That's called "civil, well-reasoned discourse" in Muslim countries...
Other members of staff at Rocky for Trade and Construction, where Higgins worked, were not aware of the attack until his body was found slumped behind his desk. He was initially thought to be the victim of an attack by Al Qaeda, but Saudi authorities now suggest a criminal motive is likely. "Although there have been rumours the attack was linked to Al Qaeda, police are also looking at the possibility that it was a criminal act unrelated to terrorism," said a statement from the Saudi embassy in London. Arab News reported sources saying that the execution-style killing was the work of criminals rather than the continuation of a terror campaign against Western expatriates.
Bumping him off for his religion would seem to jump the criminal category and into terrorism...
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
08/10/2004 12:39:30 AM ||
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#1
It is also claimed that Higgins was told to respect the Saudi way of life and its culture. Higgins, 59, who was described as a religious man, had told friends about the threats but they had not thought his life was in danger.
Most of us would have reevaluated our danger estimate whaen they began be-heading the ex-pats.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 1:39 Comments ||
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#4
Other members of staff at Rocky for Trade and Construction, where Higgins worked, were not aware of the attack until his body was found slumped behind his desk.
#5
"Higgins was told to respect the Saudi way of life and culture". Higgins was..."threatened in the past for his failure to acknowledge local custom". Higgins was told..."to downplay his Catholicism".
Obviously the man was murdered for being insufficiently "dhimmi". One must remember the local customs of Arabia: Assume the status of second class person upon entering the Kingdom least the tolerant members of the ROP take offense.
What's the spin from the Kingdom? Higgins was running Irish whiskey and that led to his murder?
Posted by: Mark ||
08/10/2004 6:18 Comments ||
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#6
Yeah, well, you know them Irish. They like their tea...wink, wink.
#9
shot twice in the head and the gun's gone. Pretty obviously an alk-runner suicide, right, Naif?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 9:33 Comments ||
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#10
I'm just curious: how much money do they have to pay someone to live and work in a shithole like Saudi Arabia? Seriously, how bad does life at home have to get before you start thinking, "Gee, that doesn't sound too bad"?
#13
BH - Easy answer: a LOT! I would estimate that you are at least 30% ahead of same amount in US - and that covers all sorts of factors, from taxes to a lack of shit to spend it on.
Better answer is that there are many different types of expats working there. I've categorized as I saw it in previous posts - and pissed one guy off, though he never responded to my query as to why he was pissed or what his status was.
Some people are "trapped" - they are on the lamb... from the IRS, some judge's alimony order, whatever. Some are technically incompetent and can't compete in the West, etc. If you can stomach living in a shithole - and there's a HUGE difference between being an Aramcon living in the Camp and being a contractor who has to find his own digs "out in the shit" - and willing to live as cheeeeeep as possible, you can pay off a mortgage, put kids through college, build a retirement fund (needed by most after 2000 crash & 9/11 etc. devastation of 401K's & IRA's), etc in a concerted stint cutting out having "a life". Every guy I knew there had a very specific plan - the 2000 crash set many back a year or three - and hopes to complete it. Many are now leaving, though, and accepting that the gig is up.
#14
Times are tough right now and the supply of 5 years olds is limited, so an imam has to make do as best he can.
Posted by: ed ||
08/10/2004 18:05 Comments ||
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#15
Ship - yep - that was at least. You get breaks here and there, and then some are cancelled out. The real key is that there's just not much to spend money on, eventually. Once you set up your household, paid your phreaking lease for a year in advance (SOS there), all you have to pay for is food & gas. Eating out is actually cheaper than buying US-style stuff at the stores - brands you can identify. Avg about double vs. here for canned goods. Much of it you just can't find. Gas, of course, is incredibly cheap. No life is the key. So, you don't spend money cuz there's damned little to buy. If you concentrate on it, you can save a LOT - I was really packing it away this last tour, and lived like a dog, basically. Choices.
#18
I knew some wives who loved the life: in their compounds the flats came with maids who did everything, while the wives played tennis, slept by the pool, and went shopping for jewelry in the souks. Oh yes, and spent the 3-month summer "back home" with the kids while the husbands stayed behind earning pots of money. Sounds like hell to me, but then I am a member of one of the categories forbidden entry anyway, and would have to remember my lies after I got in -- not one of my strengths, I'm afraid!
I'm wondering how many of these are wild-eyed schemes submitted through the al-Qaeda suggestion box and how many are serious plots...
A terror plot to detonate a bomb inside a Tube tunnel beneath the Thames has been uncovered by MI5 chiefs, it was reported yesterday. The explosion would pierce the bed of the river, leaving tens of thousands of rush- hour commuters to be drowned or trampled underfoot in the panic as people tried to flee. Blueprints for an attack on the Underground and maps of the tunnels were reported to have been discovered at an al- Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, a Sunday newspaper reported. It is the latest in a series of terror scares.
Last week, reports suggested Heathrow airport was a target of Islamic fundamentalists. Security has been stepped up at the entrances to the hundreds of miles of Tube tunnels stretching underneath London. Anti-terror chiefs recently highlighted that the radio systems of some emergency services do not work in the deepest Tube stations. Richard Barnes, deputy chairman of the Metropolitan Police Authority, said: 'Radio incompatibility could be a matter of life and death.' Transport for London, which is responsible for the Tube, said it was working closely with the police to ensure security systems were up to date. Its spokesman added: 'Our radios and the British Transport Police's radios do work in the deepest tunnels. We are also working on a new system called Connect to improve communications technology in two years. In the interim, our radios and the British Transport Police radios would be used in any such terrorist incident.'
Posted by: tipper ||
08/10/2004 11:50:36 AM ||
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#2
This sounds very do-able. One truck bomb, one driver for massive casualties and long term economic dislocation. Plus major terror effects- who would not think twice about taking a tunnel again?
IMO the two major bang-for-the-buck options for AQ are this one, a truck bomb in a tunnel, and an attack on a bulk LPG carrier in a crowded port. And the tunnel is the simpler option- important if you are short on manpower.
#3
And yet London's Mayor welcomes a thug like Qaradawi and the Finsbury Park mosque is allowed to reopen. Plots like this had better wake up Britain to the fact that "Islamic friendly" workplaces just may not be the answer.
The Financial Services Authority has given the go-ahead for the launch of the first bank to operate under strict Islamic law. For the first time, Britain's 1.8 million Muslims will be able to keep their money in an institution complying with Islamic Sharia principles. The Islamic Bank of Britain, which has headquarters in Birmingham, is planning to open its first branch next month in Edgware Road, London, followed by others in Birmingham and Leicester. The independent bank, backed by British and Gulf investors, will offer Sharia compliant current accounts, debit cards and consumer financing agreements. Its first mortgage should be available by the end of the year.
Michael Hanlon, the managing director, said: "We are confident that we can provide customers with a range of Sharia compliant products and services, equivalent to those available in a conventional bank." Under Sharia law all money must be invested in ethical industries. Muslims are also not allowed to give or receive interest on savings or loans. The Islamic Bank will treat interest as a rental fee. The Muslim Council of Great Britain said the granting of the licence by the FSA was a "watershed event in the history of Islamic finance in the UK".
Posted by: Anonymous5089 ||
08/10/2004 7:53:20 AM ||
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#1
...a range of Sharia compliant products and services
#2
Muslims are also not allowed to give or receive interest on savings or loans. The Islamic Bank will treat interest as a rental fee.
semantic drivel
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 9:38 Comments ||
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#3
What a stupid move. I guess I really don't have a good take on the Brits-I had never thought of them as particularly smitten with national suicide. Islamic Bank of Britain??? Astounding.
#4
Well, folks, this makes perfect sense! If you don't want total confusion and economic collapse, you'll need an established Central Bank - how can you properly run a country without one? Duh! Sheesh, it's so obvious, yall.
#5
Actually, it seems like a good idea to me. Makes it easier to follow the money trail.
Posted by: B ||
08/10/2004 10:32 Comments ||
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#6
If shari'a law is allowed by one area of British law, how easy will it be to keep it out of other areas of British law? Precedence seems to make a pretty big deal in court cases here in the US; would I be wrong in thinking it would do the same in Britain?
British police Sunday were granted more time to question nine men who were arrested last week on suspicion of terror-related activities. "The nine men are still in custody under the Terrorism Act 2000 and we got an extension until Tuesday," said a representative of New Scotland Yard. Police also said they are no longer questioning two of the 11 suspects still in custody. One of the suspects in custody is believed to be a key al Qaeda operative. The two men, who also were originally held under the Terrorism Act 2000, remain in custody on suspicion of possessing forged identity documents, police said Sunday. Under British law, suspects can be held for up to two weeks before police decide whether to charge them. However, courts grant that permission only a few days at a time.
Late Friday, police released a 25-year-old man without charge. No other details were provided. Another man was released without charge Tuesday. Those two men were among 13 arrested Tuesday in raids in northwest London, Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire and Lancashire. The men -- aged between 19 and 32 -- were taken into custody "on suspicion of being concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism," London's Metropolitan Police said in a statement. The statement did not disclose the nationalities of the men arrested, nor did it provide details of their alleged terrorist activities.
Any of them named Clive or Trevor?
Suspects arrested in previous anti-terrorism raids in Britain have often been released without charge. Three months ago, the UK Home Office said that fewer than one in five of those arrested under the Terrorism Act 2000 had been charged with offenses under the legislation. By the end of June this year, 609 people had been arrested under the Act since September 11, 2001, the Home Office said. The Home Office said 99 of those had been charged with offenses under the Act, including 38 who were also charged under other legislation. Of the 99 charged, 15 have been convicted. The remainder were released without charge, bailed to ensure their return, cautioned, charged under other legislation or dealt with under immigration or mental health legislation, the Home Office said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/10/2004 12:14:54 AM ||
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The threats against El Salvador by groups with suspected links to Al Qaeda, for keeping troops in Iraq, are "a blackmail against the Salvadorian democracy," Salvadorian President Elias Antonio Saca said Monday. "I want to emphasize this is an attempt to blackmail the Salvadorian democracy. The democratic institutions of the world donot obey this actions," Saca told a press conference at El Salvador's capital San Salvador, reports reaching here said. The president conceded that for the moment, neither the existence of such groups that supposedly launched the threats nor the veracity of the messages has been confirmed, but he said "every available security measure has been adopted," including border, airport and customs controls. Saca said in the face of this sort of threat, "today is the moment to define who are against terrorism and who, inside the country, are supporting it." He said that the National Security Council headed by himself would be responsible for handling the situation. "We are not leaving anything to haphazard," Saca said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/10/2004 12:34:26 AM ||
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#2
The threats against El Salvador by groups with suspected links to Al Qaeda, for keeping troops in Iraq, are "a blackmail against the Salvadorian democracy," Salvadorian President Elias Antonio Saca said Monday.
How refreshing to see an international ally call it like it is.
#3
I think El Salvador is in a great position to make a statement. I think it's doubtful that AQ has a bunch of sleeper cells in El Salvador. Also El Salvador, to my knowledge, doesn't have troops of ex-pats roaming the Middleast cleaning the Saudi toilets. It is hard to target a country in Iraq when all their available citizens are scar-faced dudes packing heat. Saca should close Iraq to Salvadoran journalists, businessmen and any other Salvadoran citizens that don't open their coffee cans with a bayonet.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 16:23 Comments ||
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#4
I'll take "Salvadorean Clue Purchasing" for $500, Alex.
#5
Thank god we got rid of that nasty sKerry-approved Sandinista gov't. I can happily to a Hispanic that has Cajones (one of the few spanish words I know but means BALLS) which is rare.
The Salvadoran military also understands guerilla warfare, from both sides.
Cojones, a vulgar word for testicles is a term that has entered popular use as a slang term meaning to have a brave attitude. It is used in a similar to way to chutzpah. While the Spanish pronunciation is something along the lines of "co-HHO-nes", in the mouths of English speakers this has mutated into "ca-HOO-nas".
The French authorities are questioning two men detained after vandals desecrated graves at a Jewish cemetery in the city of Lyon. Swastikas and other graffiti were found on about 60 tombstones and a monument to Jews killed during World War II... Last month Paris reacted angrily to a call by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon urging French Jews to emigrate to Israel to escape "the wildest anti-Semitism".
Posted by: 2% ||
08/10/2004 10:17:29 AM ||
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#1
This seems to be a disease that just won't go away...
Posted by: Fred ||
08/10/2004 11:05 Comments ||
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#2
According to Sharon the wildest anti-Semitism isn't from the Paleo's but from French Muslims instead.
Retrial proceedings opened before a German court Tuesday against the only man ever to have been convicted in connection with the 11 September attacks. Mounir El Motassadeq, an admitted friend of the Hamburg terrorists who commandeered airliners on that fateful September morning, arrived at the Hamburg State Court chambers without making a statement. He ignored reporters' questions as he was whisked inside the court house. He issued a statement through his attorneys saying he would say nothing before the court when it took up charges of being an accomplice to the more than 3,000 deaths in the attacks. Chief defence attorney Josef Graessle-Muenscher, in issuing the statement, said the new tactic reflects a feeling by the defence that the proceedings are based on flimsy evidence. "We intend to file a request for all charges to be dismissed on the basis of lack of evidence," Graessle-Muenscher said.
His remarks came after Germany's top federal prosecutor conceded he has failed to persuade the US State Department to hand over evidence that Germany's high court, which ordered the retrial, has stated is crucial for conviction. Chief Federal Prosecutor Kay Nehm has acknowledged travelling to the United States in April seeking release of interrogation records of detained terror suspects Ramzi Binalshibh and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. "I met with a great deal of understanding," Nehm said. "But they gave me to understand that there were restrictions which went way beyond the authority of the people I was talking to." He added that a 17-page document with questions German officials want put to Binalshibh had been sent to the United States this month. Nehm said that, even without the State Department records, he was confident of winning a conviction in the upcoming retrial of Mounir Motassadeq. But without Binalshibh's interrogation records, Motassadeq's defence attorney Graessle-Muenscher says he will file a request with the court for dropping all charges against his client.
#3
I voted too! I love the way the left always talks about Rove as if he is doing something illegal. Why is it that ONLY the left comes up with the many conspiracy theories? Come on guys/gals lets brew a couple of theories up for our side. How about John F. Kerry has a young male lover that lives in DC? Or how about Kerry has made a secret deal to give back the SouthWest to Mexico? Or Kerry plans to allow the U.S. to be tried in the World Court? Or Kerry secretly holds onto a French passport so he can run for President of that country too? I am just spitballing here, jump in anytime!
#4
Sarge, the problem is that Kerry is beyond satire .... the reality is weird enough! LOL
Posted by: too true ||
08/10/2004 18:36 Comments ||
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#5
The only problem Sarge is that the "Kerry plans to allow the U.S. to be tried in the World Court" conspiracy isn't a conspiracy at all. It's a fact.
#6
I heard something about the original October surprise today on the radio that I had never heard before. The original conspiracy story was that George HW Bush had travelled alone in a one-seated U2 spycraft for discussions in Tehran. I'm glad Congress investigated that story. Which sub-committees are assigned crop circles and bigfoot?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 19:24 Comments ||
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#7
The original conspiracy story was that George HW Bush had travelled alone in a one-seated U2 spycraft for discussions in Tehran.
And after they used the canopener to get him out in Teheran, how did he get back???? LOL
Idiots. While GHWB had been a Navy pilot (and a good one), the U2 guys are a special breed qnd it's not an aircraft you just jump into and learn to fly in an hour or two .... Met a few of U2ers once ...
Posted by: too true ||
08/10/2004 19:47 Comments ||
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#8
I've heard the story too, except it was an SR-71 in my version.
#9
Cyber Sarge,my secret sources have revealed the full extent of the "Kerry Conspiracy".In Feb.,Kerry went in for prostate cancer surgery.While it was reported operation was completely successful,the truth is the cancer had spread so far,Kerry was given just a few months to live.Theresa didn't want to look for another single Senator.She contacted George Lucas and paid ILM to build her a Kerry Robot.The real John Kerry was exiled to an island Theresa bought in the S.Pacific where a group of native nurses take care of him.Lucas agreed because he plans to replace all his actors w/robots and the K-bot gives him a field test.Theresa is continuing the K-bots' run for President because she is a big fan of MTV's PUNK'D.No one else knows because who can tell the diff?
Posted by: Stephen ||
08/10/2004 20:06 Comments ||
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#10
George Lucas? I thought it was Steven Spielberg?
Posted by: Fred ||
08/10/2004 20:10 Comments ||
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#11
Whoever, but it's not very life like.
Posted by: ed ||
08/10/2004 20:50 Comments ||
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#12
Walt Disney wouldn't pay for it...
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 21:09 Comments ||
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#13
They didn't defrost him to ask.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
08/10/2004 21:38 Comments ||
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#14
"you are limited to one vote per day"
So I'm not suggesting that you go back tomorrow to vote again. Why, that might be dishonest!
The Canadian government is investigating a report that a man of Pakistani origin who was arrested for his role in an extensive al-Qaeda terrorist plot may be a Canadian citizen.
Should we be expecting the prime minister to make a personal appeal to have him sprung?
Foreign Affairs spokesman Reynald Doiron said yesterday the federal department has contacted its counterparts in Pakistan to confirm a Times of London newspaper report, citing a Pakistani official, that the 25-year-old Mr. Khan is a Canadian. Canada's high commissioner in Islamabad has requested that Pakistani officials supply a date of birth, place of birth and photo of Mr. Khan to compare with Canadian records. "There has been movement but no confirmation," said Mr. Doiron. "The Pakistanis have not yet provided our high commissioner in Islamabad with any conclusive information or data regarding the Canadian citizenship of that guy."
Is the high command of international Islamism in Karachi or Toronto? Enquiring minds want to know...
Foreign Affairs has checked citizenship records and has come up with a name match, but Mr. Doiron cautioned against reading too much into it because of the several spelling variations of Mr. Khan's given names and the fact that he has an extremely common surname -- comparable to Smith in English. Pakistani intelligence authorities forced Mr. Khan to take part in a "sting" operation that has led to the arrest of some of Osama bin Laden's most dangerous agents, several reports citing Pakistani officials have said. Mr. Khan e-mailed al-Qaeda comrades while in custody in Pakistan and some of them responded, but the operation may have been compromised after Mr. Khan's name appeared in U.S. newspapers.
#7
ahh good old Khaaaan , always something going on in the world wide global Khan family,i think we can all agree that all the Khans in the world are related and therefore not to be trusted, trust me on that.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
08/10/2004 16:52 Comments ||
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"Who told you?" he demanded as he reached inside. "My friends don't know about this."
There are panning shots of his dog tag, a pile of bills, his wallet, a woman's picture, an opened letter and envelope, cigarettes, a glass and Cordon Bleu bottle, and a gun lying next to his pillow.
The hat was a little mildewy. The green camouflage was fading, the seams fraying.
"My good luck hat," Kerry said, happy to see it. "Given to me by a CIA guy as we went in for a special mission in Cambodia."
"A journey on a U.S. Navy patrol boat with a four-man crew up the jungle-lined Nung River into off-limits Cambodia to follow Col. Kurtz's path to his remote stronghold island."
"Secret Aaaaagent Man!
"They've given you a hat and taken 'way yore name!"
Baron von Munchausen again
Kerry put on the hat, pulling the brim over his forehead. His blue button-down shirt and tie clashed with the camouflage. He pointed his finger and raised his thumb, creating an imaginary gun. He looked silly, yet suddenly his campaign message was clear: closed off from the outside world, haunted by his liquor-induced memories of the choppers, gunfire and the war. Citizen-soldier. Linking patriotism to public service. It wasn't complex after all; it was Kerry.
"he's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct"
It was affected... It was posturing... It was stoopid...
#2
The "lucky" hat must have looked nice with his "lucky" jacket:
"The Swiftvets website ... [is ]replete with refutations of John Boy's claims in his book, Tour of Duty ... [and]ridicule of his wearing that leather flight jacket on the campaign trail and claiming it brought him luck in Vietnam,
"'No one wore such a jacket in 90+ heat.' [says one poster there]
"You sure you want to keep bringing this guy's service record up in every speech, John? I know it's easy for someone who never served to be a little overawed, but good grief, even a weenie liberal lawyer ought to be able to figure out you don't wear leather jackets on jungle patrols, you know? And what's with this flight jacket business anyway? What was John Boy flying over there? Sure as hell wasn't a supersonic F-102 interceptor like George Bush, now was it?
"But of course! Why didn't I think of it? That jacket could explain the minor nature of his award-winning wounds; kept all that nasty flak and flying lead from really hurting him instead of just breaking the skin, you know? Guess that's why he calls it his lucky jacket. But I got tell you, Man, speaking of breaking, I'm sitting here breaking out in a sweat just thinking about it. I mean, jungle fatigues were hot enough; but leather? With fleece lining? Whew, man, that's hardcore!"
#4
"A journey on a U.S. Navy patrol boat with a four-man crew up the jungle-lined Nung River into off-limits Cambodia to follow Col. Kurtz's path to his remote stronghold island."
It seems to me that if anyone would be lying on their back in a fetid hotel room, staring drunkenly at the fan, it'd be Theresa....
GRAND CANYON, United States (AFP) - Chances for the United States to reduce its military forces in Iraq (news - web sites) within one year will depend on security on the ground and advances in US diplomacy, US Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites) said.
"My goal, my diplomacy, my statesmanship is to get our troops reduced in number," Kerry said.
On Friday, Kerry told National Public Radio in an interview that, if elected, to "significantly" diminish the number of US troops in Iraq by August 2005.
"I believe if you do the statesmanship properly, I believe if you do the kind of alliance building that is available to us, that it is appropriate to have a goal of reducing our troops over that period of time," he said.
"I am confident that I can beat George Bush's record of only 34 nations involved in the coalition."
"Obviously we have to see how events unfold," Kerry added. "The measurement has to be, as I've said all along, the stability of Iraq, the ability to have the elections (scheduled for January 2005), and the training and transformation of the Iraqi security force itself."
Kerry said he is confident he can effectively use diplomacy to get more countries involved in helping Iraq.
"I intend to get more people involved in that effort," he said. "And I'm convinced I can be more successful than president (George W.) Bush in succeeding in doing that. It is an appropriate goal to have and I'm going to try to achieve it."
Kerry noted, for example, that a stable Iraq is in the interest of neighboring Arab nations.
If all the criteria is met, "that will allow for a reduction in forces over the next year or so," said Kerry foreign policy adviser James Rubin.
"If things don't go well initially, that means any cutbacks in American forces will come slower," he added.
Some 140,000 US military forces are currently deployed in Iraq.
On Friday, Bush refused to set a timetable for withdrawal for US troops.
Posted by: 2% ||
08/10/2004 10:31:58 AM ||
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#1
Statesmanship???
He's talking about himself, right?
#2
Yes Hanoi John and don't forget to have another set of your "hearings' to trash our Vets again. No John I don't hate you. I just think you are a dishonorable man who traded his unform, flag and country for political gain above all else. I think comparing you to Benedict Arnold would be doing Benny a disservice.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
08/10/2004 11:36 Comments ||
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#3
Spot-on, Bill. Bullseye.
If he were only a ponderous boor and lefty twit...
Posted by: B ||
08/10/2004 11:45 Comments ||
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#5
Ah, yes. Nothing like spelling out your intentions to the enemy. "I plan to pull out, just don't gum up my chances of winning this for you." Asshat.
Posted by: Jim K ||
08/10/2004 11:48 Comments ||
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#6
Click your heels three times, John, so that your spell can take effect.
#7
When I am elected I will direct the pecker woods in Tennessee and the trailer trash in S Carolina to join my friends at Los Alamos in building the worlds first deployable Nuance Bomb.
#8
I AM GETTING LOST IN KERRYISMS -- THE RESIDUE DERIVED FROM A RARE BUT CHRONIC, DEGENERATING DISEASE THAT AFFLICTS A SELF-SELFING, ARROGANT, BS ARTIST LOST IN HIS OWN SPIT.
Posted by: Capt America ||
08/10/2004 21:49 Comments ||
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EFL:A federal judge has held a Time magazine reporter in contempt of court for refusing to testify in an investigation of the leak of a CIA officer's identity, rejecting requests from two media organizations to quash federal grand jury subpoenas seeking information from the media. U.S. District Chief Judge Thomas F. Hogan ruled that the First Amendment does not insulate reporters from Time and NBC News from a requirement to testify before a criminal grand jury that is conducting the investigation into the possible illegal disclosure of classified information. He unsealed an order that demands the "confinement" of Time reporter Matthew Cooper, who has refused to testify in the probe, but stayed it pending an appeal.
The judge's opinion, reached July 20 but not released until yesterday, will be immediately appealed, Time executives said. Hogan also issued an Aug. 6 order confining Cooper "at a suitable place until such time as he is willing to comply with the grand jury subpoena," and ordered Time to be fined $1,000 a day. The fine was also stayed while the magazine's expedited appeal is considered. While NBC fought a subpoena issued May 21 and was included in the opinion, it avoided a contempt citation after Tim Russert, moderator of NBC's "Meet the Press," agreed to an interview over the weekend in which he answered a limited number of questions posed by special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald, NBC said in a statement.
Lawyers involved in the case said it appears that Fitzgerald is now armed with a strong and unambiguous court ruling to demand the testimony of two journalists -- syndicated columnist Robert D. Novak, who first disclosed the CIA officer's name, and Washington Post reporter Walter Pincus, who has written that a Post reporter received information about her from a Bush administration official. Pincus was served with a subpoena yesterday after Hogan's order was unsealed.
This should be fun, anyone think the reporters would be resisting giving up their sources if it could hurt Bush? Me neither.
Nope, they won't do it, reporters can't burn a source and stay in Washington.
Washington Post reporter Glenn Kessler agreed to a similar interview with Fitzgerald's office earlier this summer. In both Kessler's case and Russert's, prosecutors' questions concerned conversations the reporters had in early July 2003 with Lewis I. "Scooter" Libby, chief of staff for Vice President Cheney. Both reporters have said they told Fitzgerald's staff that Libby did not disclose the identity of the CIA employee, Valerie Plame, to them.
The investigation was sparked by a July 14, 2003, column by Novak that called into question the findings of an outspoken Bush foreign policy critic sent to the African nation of Niger in 2002 to investigate claims that Iraq had tried to buy uranium there for its weapons of mass destruction program. Cheney had asked for more information about fragmentary intelligence on the subject.
Novak's testimony is key
And he'll go to jail before he reveals his source. He's an old pro.
The envoy, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, was recommended for the CIA mission by his wife, Plame, a CIA nonproliferation "operative," Novak wrote, adding that two administration officials offered the information as an explanation of why Wilson was selected. By then, Wilson was publicly accusing the Bush administration of "twisting" intelligence, including his findings in Niger, to build a case for going to war in Iraq.
And since proven to be a liar.
Novak's lawyer, James Hamilton, declined to comment yesterday on whether his client has received a subpoena.
My guess is yes. Popcorn, anyone?
Posted by: Steve ||
08/10/2004 10:09:52 AM ||
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#1
This matter hinges on sworn testimony of one person: Joseph C. Wilson IV. Let's confront this weasel with the recent intelligence disclosures and see what he has to say under oath.
Posted by: Capt America ||
08/10/2004 10:28 Comments ||
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#2
U.S. District Chief Judge Thomas F. Hogan ruled that the First Amendment does not insulate reporters from Time and NBC News from a requirement to testify before a criminal grand jury
Goddam right it doesn't, and never has. The reporter's "shield" is a fantasy. "The Constitution doesn't say that, and the right doesn't exist", to quote Wilford Brimley.
"Do you think Senator Kerry is qualified to be commander in chief?" Franks was asked.
"Absolutely!" he said. But like the criticism of Kerry, the retired general said the Democratic nominee's recent harsh words about the war plan Franks created in Afghanistan was motivated by politics and his failure to capture al-Qaida network leader Osama bin Laden. "I think a presidential election year is a marvelous thing. I think Senator Kerry is a patriot. And I think what ... what we're doing is, we're seeing an attempt to sort of draw the lines between the two parties in this country. And I wouldn't have it any other way," Franks said.
The characterization of Kerry as a coward and liar who did not earn the medals awarded him for his Vietnam service came in a television ad sponsored by a group that fashions calls itself Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Kerry was skipper of one of the small Mekong River boats and received the Silver Star and Bronze Star for valor and three Purple Hearts for wounds. "I really work hard to stay away from hyperbole," Franks said. "People ask me all the time about 'Fahrenheit 9/11' and then others will ask me about some equally vitriolic view at the end of the continuum on the conservative side... I believe that life really is someplace between the two, and so I am not a fan of hyperbole, whether it is for or against Senator Kerry or George W. Bush." Franks said he also has not decided whether he would want to speak at the Republican National Convention. "I'm a fiercely independent kind of guy and rather proud of it," Franks said.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 2:09:44 AM ||
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"Fashions itself." I'm guessing that the editing error wasn't accidental and I find it interesting that the only thing we ever see written about this that McCain and Franks and others have taken the high road.
Personally I'm a bit disappointed in McCain. In taking the high road, he elevated himself above the Swift Vets who have a right to say what they believe without McCain backstabbing them.
Posted by: B ||
08/10/2004 11:06 Comments ||
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#5
McCain does seem to think himself the ultimate arbiter regards all things military and all questions of honor. Of course, the fact that he was actually a dumbass who got his prissy O-Club jet-jockey ass shot out of the sky gets lost somehow. Everybody played their part, but I have to admit I have more consideration for the opinions of those who were slogging it out on the ground than I do for the fly-over long-range killing zoomies.
McCain can fuck off - he doesn't control the debate, IMO.
#6
McCain--and I say this with thanks for his service and in deference for the hell he went through as a POW--is crazy.
Seriously crazy. (I truly believe that his NV captors brainwashed him using torture.)
He really should never have entered public service.
But I'm very tired of hearing him be both a Republican and a Democrat senator and of accomodating things like rapprochement with the Vietnamese and other Communist countries.
#7
Good heavens.... I'm agreeing with .com & Jen! Yikes I'm near the edge.....
With all respect due to whatever and whoever the hell, way to0 much time is spent admiring the prowess of ex-pows from both parties and all wars. Sorry, that's cold I'm just that way.
#8
McCain is playing the center aisle so he can be Kerry's Sec Def. He has no other incentive to diss the Swift Boat Vets. This is especially true when it is Kerry's complete chain of command. No military guy in his right mind (read: no personal agenda) is going to ignore that.
Posted by: remote man ||
08/10/2004 15:37 Comments ||
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Responding to President Bush's question with several of his own, Sen. John Kerry said Monday he would have voted to authorize the war in Iraq knowing what he does now, but added that he would have used the power more effectively than the current commander in chief.
'cause he served in Cambodia Vietnam, you know.
The Democratic presidential nominee said he hoped to begin reducing the number of U.S. forces in Iraq within six months of taking office if he is elected. "It is an appropriate goal to have," he said, but added that achieving it would depend on broader international assistance, better stability within Iraq and other related factors.
In other words, he has no idea if his plan will work, but he'll pull the troops anyway.
Fielding questions from reporters after he and wife Teresa Heinz Kerry hiked along the rim of the Grand Canyon, Kerry also said he opposes raising the retirement age for Social Security as part of any plan to overhaul the system."People who start talking about raising the retirement age are people who may not have worked at real jobs for a lifetime," he said.
#2
First of all, he didn't answer the question, as usual. Bush asked if he would have supported the invasion even if we knew about the WMD.
Kerry says he would have "voted for the authority" that Bush got to invade Iraq, which isn't the same thing as supporting the actual invasion.
OK, then he turns around and says there was a "rush" to war based on "faulty intelligence"? He had the same intelligence Bush had. And what was the "rush"? It took six MONTHS from authorization until invasion.
And to clain he has not brought other nations in, is ridiculous. Bush tried like hell to get Frawnce and Wormany to assist. They refused. So he got 34 others.
No plan to win the peace? Well, pardon me, but why wasn't Kerry interested in this back before the war? I don't recall him saying jack about the postwar period.
Kerry has essentially announced he plans to pull the troops out if things don't fall exactly his way. It's outrageous and typical of this flipflopping sheep in wolf's clothing...
#3
I suspect that since Nader didn't make the ballot in CA, Kerry feels a bit freer to piss off the anti-war crowd (too small to elect him...see Air America stats) and move to the center.
#4
Kerry's insistent focus on "bringing the troops home" makes me wonder whether he even comprehends why they're there in the first place: so we're in a position to apply military pressure to Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia.
Our troops sacrificed to give us that leverage. And John Kerry would throw it all away, just for the sake of a cheap-- and ignominious-- withdrawal. Just like Vietnam.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
08/10/2004 6:41 Comments ||
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If Kerry does move to the right and ends up pissing the anti-war crowd off, it can't be good. While a lot of folks may not be pleased with Bush, trading him in for someone who until recently was anti-war, and who may be a fraud in his pro war stance, ain't going to win him many votes.
As "plans to win the peace" Kerry needs to be reminded that no plans survives contact with the enemy. The bad guys get a vote, no matter what you plan.
Posted by: Ben ||
08/10/2004 6:45 Comments ||
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#6
Kerry makes me think of Sam the Eagle from the Muppett Show. He talks, looks and acts like him.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/10/2004 8:03 Comments ||
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#7
Kerry on Iraq: "voted for it but I would have implemented it better".
Kerry on No Child Left Behind: "voted for it but I would have implemented it better".
Kerry on Bosnia/Kosovo: "voted for it but I would have implemented it better".
Yet the only thing Kerry has ever implemented is the Dukakis prison release plan.
I really am enjoying watching my Dem friends struggle in their support of this loser, being that they are so wise and I am so foolish for supporting Bush.
For months they've been going on about the "Bush Lied about WMDs" and now Kerry has flopped on them giving me fuel for my fire and snuffing theirs out. And since it's becoming more clear that Sadaam had them and cooperated with Al Qaeda, they are starting to go on about Haliburton again. Did you know that Haliburton's profits increased about a gazillion percent over the last several years? It's a deep dark conspiracy led by Dick Cheny.
heh, heh.
Posted by: B ||
08/10/2004 10:50 Comments ||
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#10
oops..Cheney.
Posted by: B ||
08/10/2004 10:51 Comments ||
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#11
'..., but added that he would have used the power more effectively than the current commander in chief."
I beleive Tommy Franks was running this war very well and you Hanoi John ARE NOT A LEADER.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
08/10/2004 11:41 Comments ||
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#12
Heard this quote by Kerry this AM.
"Would we might have gone to war? You bet we might have."
#13
Had a discussion with my super-liberal extended family the past weekend. Pretty much all of them felt Dean would have been better. At least he would have been honest.
The one real Kerry supporter (my Aunt) there was frothing as I picked apart her arguements one-by-one and told her that Bush hatred doesn't make Kerry a good candidate, and that hatred is a bad reason to choose anything. The crowd should have been sympathetic to her views but she lost the debate without question.
I doubt anyone there would vote for W. based on my little debate but hopefully a few will stay home or toss a vote towards Nader.
#14
Interesting thing about Kerry standing on his voting record is the timing. His statements are meant to show a non-flip-flopping foreign policy stance and it comes after his Vietnam record and flip-flopping on Cambodia suddenly came into question.
Caught Via Drudge - EFL - Read it all! This is a good start to shutting down the border
WASHINGTON, Aug. 10 — Citing concerns about terrorists crossing the nation's land borders, the Department of Homeland Security announced today that it planned to give border patrol agents sweeping new powers to deport illegal aliens from the frontiers abutting Mexico and Canada without providing the aliens the opportunity to make their case before an immigration judge.
The move, which will take effect this month, represents a broad expansion of the authority of the thousands of law enforcement agents who currently patrol the nation's borders. Until now, border patrol agents typically delivered undocumented immigrants to the custody of the immigration courts, where judges determined whether they should be deported or remain in the United States.
Homeland Security officials described the immigration courts — which hear pleas for asylum and other appeals to remain in the country — as sluggish and cumbersome, saying illegal immigrants often wait more than a year before being deported, straining the capacity of detention centers and draining critical resources. Under the new system, immigrants will typically be deported within eight days of their apprehension, officials said.
Immigration legislation passed in 1996 allows the immigration service to deport certain groups of illegal aliens without judicial oversight, but until now the agency only permitted officials at the nation's airports and seaports to do so. The new rule will apply to illegal aliens caught within 100 miles of the Mexican and Canadian borders who have spent 14 days or less within the United States. The border agents will focus on deporting third-country nationals, rather than Mexicans or Canadians, and they are expected to begin exercising their new powers on Aug. 24 in Tucson and Laredo, Tex.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 8:05:54 PM ||
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#1
This is good news. US citizens must keep up the pressure on the President and Congress for sealing the border. The Dems and Republicans, with few exceptions, ignore it. We must hold their feet to the fire.
We even get raids from time to time up here in Alaska (even as far north as Barrow) where the INS rounds up illegals. Someone sets up shop, a small business, whatever, and soon all his buddies show up.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/10/2004 20:25 Comments ||
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#2
Shoot 'em. It's the only thing that will work.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
08/10/2004 20:28 Comments ||
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#3
nah, stop em from crossing illegally, make them go through a worker program that works (even, god forbid, apply for citizenship, like everyone else trying to immigrate here does?).
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 20:41 Comments ||
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#4
"Shoot 'em. It's the only thing that will work."
I vote for this solution. Also, leave their bodies where they're killed so their bones bleach in the Sun.
#6
true but the OTM (Other Than Mexicans) should have a layover at Gitmo
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 21:47 Comments ||
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#7
Frank, We already have a procedure for legal immigration and becoming a citizen. Millions are
waiting YEARS for their chance to LEGALLY immgrate. These are the 'law abiding' people we WANT to have come.
Unfortunately our politicians have a habit of pissing all over them in order to gain a few more latino votes by encouraging illegal (who are, by definition, not-law-abiding) people to cross over. These are the people we DONT WANT here.
Why do the Mexicans and Canadians get a break? Isn't that 'racial profiling'??
#8
CF - no argument from me. No special "dispensation" should be given to our neighbors north and south. Shut all of them down and force the immigrants/workers/etc. to go through the official channels. I just said it was a good start from the deliberate neglect shown by R and D administrations. Should an attack occur from an illegal cross-border group, expect the demands to be the military on the border, shoot to kill, cheap labor be damned. I prefer that now
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 22:13 Comments ||
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All of this leaves out how our border patrols currently have no way of determining whether people they detain are wanted criminals in their country of origin. I'm sick and tired of Mexico exporting their criminal population to America, much like Castro did with the Mariel boatlift.
We need to photograph and fingerprint all illegal aliens so that repeat offenders can be identified. Some of those we scoop up are the coyotes and we need to start making a note of these unscrupulous traffickers. Anyone of Arabic or Moslem origin gets a one-way ticket to Gitmo for some voice training lessons.
#10
This was news to me. Didn't know the death rate was so high, and this is only for Arizona.
"A record 154 immigrants died sneaking into Arizona in the 2003 fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, most of them succumbing to the desert heat. "
#12
Honestly, it would help to severely fine any employer who is hiring these people. If you never sweep the kitchen, don't complain about the roaches.
Once the money flow has been shutoff to illegals -rates of legal immigration can be established to meet employment needs. With respect to refusing employment that involves menial taskings, Americans aren't as bad Saudi's, but we aren't much better.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/11/2004 4:36 Comments ||
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#13
No special "dispensation" should be given to our neighbors north and south.
I wonder how many illegal workers or aliens you get from the North :) If you do, I think they go south for the warm weather more than anything.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/11/2004 4:42 Comments ||
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From The Washington Post Mohdar Abdullah knows what the Sept. 11 commission says about him. That he was "perfectly suited to assist the hijackers in pursuing their mission." That he "expressed hatred for the U.S. government." Perhaps most damning, the panel's best-selling report alleges that Abdullah may have bragged to inmates that he knew about the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in advance and that he told the FBI, "The U.S. brought this on themselves."
Abdullah, now 25 and back in his homeland of Yemen after his deportation from the United States in May, called the report "propaganda" and said he is the victim of U.S. investigators looking for someone to blame. He said he had no inkling in the summer of 2001 that two friends, Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi, were about to take part in the deadliest terrorist assault on U.S. soil. ....
Abdullah was arrested as a material witness in late September 2001. He spent 32 months in U.S. jails and prisons as the FBI and the Justice Department investigated his ties to Almihdhar, Alhazmi and a network of immigrant friends, all of whom congregated around the Rabat mosque in a suburb of San Diego. Commission investigators complained that they were never able to interview Abdullah before he was deported. Abdullah refused to cooperate, and the Justice Department declined to grant him immunity from prosecution to compel his cooperation. The panel also is critical of the government's decision to allow Abdullah's deportation, arguing that unanswered questions about his case require further examination. .... According to the commission report, which cites FBI interviews and other investigative material, Abdullah admitted that he knew Alhazmi and Almihdhar were extremists and that Almihdhar had been involved with the Islamic Army of Aden, a group linked to al Qaeda. The report also says Abdullah "clearly was sympathetic to those extremist views." ....
The Justice Department and the FBI take a different view, arguing that Abdullah's case has been exhaustively investigated and that the claims of the two jailhouse informants, in particular, do not check out. ....
Abdullah had just transferred from Grossmont College in El Cajon, where he studied business administration, to San Diego State University, where he had planned to study information systems when he was arrested. Now he is living with his parents and attempting to find a job. Abdullah said he was brought back to Sanaa under armed guard and held in a Yemeni jail for about a month after his deportation. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/10/2004 5:48:21 PM ||
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President Bush has chosen Rep. Porter Goss, chairman of the House intelligence committee and a one-time Army intelligence operative and CIA officer, to head the embattled agency. A senior administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Bush planned to announce the selection of the 65-year-old Goss later Tuesday during a White House appearance.
Goss, a Republican from Florida, had been mentioned prominently in speculation about a successor to departed CIA Director George Tenet, who left amid a torrent of criticism of the agency's handling of prewar intelligence on Iraq. Bush's decision also comes in the wake of the president's embrace of a key recommendation of the commission that investigated the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks: creation of a new intelligence czar to oversee the activities of the CIA and more than a dozen other intelligence agencies. Speaking last week of the pleas for change by the 9/11 commission, Goss had said "we cannot afford to make changes blindly or in an unnecessary haste. We can ill-afford to rush to judgment any more than we can tolerate needless delay."
Goss was among the leading candidates mentioned when Tenet announced his resignation in late spring. But there had been more recent speculation that his prospects had dimmed, due at least in part to the unavoidable controversies that follow a leading player in Congress. Tenet's last day was July 11, and the much-criticized agency since then has been under the leadership of acting Director John McLaughlin. The administration was believed to have debated internally whether to choose a permanent successor to Tenet before the fall elections, thus putting itself in the position of having to defend its choice in confirmation hearings held in a politically charged atmosphere.
If Bush delayed, he'd be charged with not doing anything.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/10/2004 8:59:41 AM ||
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Dems don't like him - that means he'll probably be effective and a good choice. They risk looking bad in beating up on him at confirmation hearings, he's no chump and will bite back
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 9:31 Comments ||
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#2
I'm in Florida, district 14 (the same district Goss represents). So I know a good deal about him. I don't always agree with his politics but he's extremely intelligent, has a lot of common sense (which doesn't always go with intelligence) and has a lot of intelligence experience (including in the CIA).
Despite the fact that I don't always agree with him politically, I have voted for him every single time he's run here. I don't vote party line, and am registered independent.
If you think this is an endorsement of Goss, you are quite right. He's absolutely the best man for the job.
Posted by: Kathy K ||
08/10/2004 9:39 Comments ||
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Kathy - Whew! Thanks for the first-hand assessment! I've read a LOT about him, but the sources are, of course, mainly among those I have learned to distrust or filter to death. Your description hits the mean - the sweet spot - when it's all boiled down, so it rings true. And that is a major relief! I am particualrly happy he has actually been IN the CIA - and Operations to boot... nothing beats on the scene knowledge and experience. The common sense part is the other thing that rings my bell! I'm cool with him now, not that he needed it, heh.
I don't know if this will be a timing mistake (i.e. will the circus will overshadow the point?), but at least I feel better about the person put forward.
#4
Kathy, that's nice to hear. Agree that the Dem's risk looking soft on terrorism if they don't confirm, especially after all their wailing about the need for something like this.
And it also gives GOP a chance to beat the Dim's over the head a few more times re: their delays in confirming justices.
Posted by: B ||
08/10/2004 10:07 Comments ||
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#5
In the aftermath of the intelligence community getting ripped up one side and down the other by the various committees and commissions, would the Dems even dare to mess with the DCI confirmation hearings? It'll lead to a replay of 2002. (c.f. Homeland security follies, government service employees union featherbedding)
#6
Retired Adm. Stansfield Turner, who was CIA chief during the Carter administration and supports Sen. John Kerry's presidential bid, said Goss' selection marked "a bad day for the CIA." Goss was chosen simply "to help George Bush win votes in Florida. This is the worst appointment that's ever been made to the office of director of central intelligence because that's an office that needs to be kept above partisan politics," Turner said.
Stan, you should amend that to "the worst appointment that's ever been made to the office of director of central intelligence".... since me.
#7
tu - dead right, bro. Fox, for reasons that utterly elude me, often invite Turner on for commentary. His broken-record partisan dogma is truly mind-boggling - and here we have yet another charge against the Pubs that is standard play for the Donks - accuse them of what we do. It's a great ploy and instantly confuses the issue. He's so far out of touch, so far out of the loop, that every word is wasted air-time. He's a Carter fuckwit and whore -- looking for a job, methinks.
Why they don't get someone who's still informed and has a real grasp of reality - like Woolsey - is beyond me. I'd hire Woolsey in a heartbeat for any advisory or staff intel position - he knows his shit, is extremely articulate and well-spoken, and doesn't pull his punches. A truth-teller and awesome bullshit-detector.
#8
plus Woolsey's still got some classified powerpoint stuff on his laptop :-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 14:47 Comments ||
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Article: Retired Adm. Stansfield Turner, who was CIA chief during the Carter administration and supports Sen. John Kerry's presidential bid, said Goss' selection marked "a bad day for the CIA." Goss was chosen simply "to help George Bush win votes in Florida.
The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Iranian Revolution and the taking of American hostages at the US embassy in Tehran occurred on Turner's watch. 'Nuff said.
#10
I saw Turner on Fox Sunday (Kerin was looking good) and he was just a Dem talking point mouthpiece. His comment is so ridiculous that it makes him look stupid. ZF is right. This guy is an(other) empty suit.
Posted by: remote man ||
08/10/2004 15:32 Comments ||
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#11
If Turner is against it, then he must be the right choice.
Posted by: B ||
08/10/2004 15:44 Comments ||
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#12
woolseys too openly neo con, Dot com boom. and one of the harder line neo cons at that - closer to Perle than to Wolfie (closer to dot com than to LH?:))
#15
"woolseys too openly neo con, Dot com boom. and one of the harder line neo cons at that - closer to Perle than to Wolfie"
Lh, you talk about this like it's a bad thing...LOL
And how can a "harder line neo-con" not be close to Wolfowitz?!
#20
Interesting that he has military intel experience.
The question of how, and how much, to integrate other intel with military intel is a hard one. Battlefield commanders don't want CIA / NSA types deciding what they need to see or taking a long time to pass it along.
OTOH duplication of systems is expensive. It'll take someone with feet in both worlds to get some agreement on the balance between them.
A Syrian national has been charged after allegedly concealing more than $24,000 as she boarded a flight from Minneapolis to her homeland. Forty-nine-year-old Amneh Ahmad Abbas of New Orleans is accused of trying to evade currency reporting rules. A U.S. magistrate in Minneapolis Monday ordered her held without bond. Another hearing is scheduled for Thursday. According to the criminal complaint, Abbas was stopped on a jetway at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport Friday as she was attempting to board a Northwest Airlines flight to Syria. Abbas told officers she was carrying nearly $10,000 plus 4,200 Syrian pounds. But they noticed a bulge under her clothes and found another $24,000.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
08/10/2004 8:41:03 AM ||
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Is that twenty four thousand dollars...or are you just glad to see me?
Long but good commentary by Arnaud de Borchgrave of UPI. He's got a pretty good idea of how al-Qaeda sees itself with respect to the US.
Number of Islamist extremists in the world, as estimated by moderate Muslim leaders, about 12 million. Number of fundamentalist sympathizers: 120 million. That's one and 10 percent of the world's Muslim population of 1.2 billion. Then there's the number who trust Osama Bin Laden more than President Bush: a majority in Muslim countries whose populations total 450 million.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/10/2004 12:45:22 AM ||
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Scary. What it would take to defeat this threat is scary too. A WWII scale effort. Limited counterinsurgency ops across the Islamic world MIGHT be all that is needed. ("Limited" here means hundreds of thousands of men, given the size of the territory involved.) But there is no guarantee, since such ops might spiral into larger wars like Vietnam. At that point we are talking about Corps, Armies, and Army Groups to bring about total defeat as in WWII. Millions of troops.
#2
Article: Few of the younger U.S. counter-intelligence agents remember that manpads literally brought down the Soviet empire.
Arnaud de Borchgrave is wrong on this, as he has been wrong on the War on Terror. The Soviet collapse in Afghanistan coincided with a collapse in its finances brought about by an arms buildup it couldn't afford. The Soviet Union's fall wasn't caused by withdrawal from Afghanistan - it merely coincided with it. The Soviet invasion occurred at the right time for the Afghans - if it had occurred in the 1950's, before decades of communism further weakened the Soviet Union's economy, Afghanistan would have become another Soviet Republic (the Soviet Union was also known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics).
He was on the board of half a dozen "charitable" Muslim foundations in the tri-state region, certified 75 Muslim chaplains for the U.S. Armed Forces, founded and once led the American Muslim Council (AMC), praised by the FBI Director Robert Mueller for its mainstream moderation.
The key word being WAS. Pray tell me, where is he now?
Muslims have now reached the point where they are fed up with the U.S., which lives in prosperity off our nationâs resources.
Hey, we'd like nothing better than to stop buying your oil. Keep raising the price and we'll have alternatives within a year.
Posted by: B ||
08/10/2004 10:30 Comments ||
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#4
Article: Few of the younger U.S. counter-intelligence agents remember that manpads literally brought down the Soviet empire.
Another point that de Borchgrave has missed is this - if manpads can bring a country to its knees, why target the US and not say, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, which should have many more Islamist sympathizers who are willing to hide the perpetrators and provide logistical support? Why not target Russia, which has tens of millions of Muslims within its territory, and is routinely susceptible to large-scale terrorist attacks by Muslims, and has enough Muslim sympathizers to shelter these people? Moreover if manpads are so effective, why haven't terrorists been able to bring down a jet plane in Iraq or Afghanistan, where ordnance is plentiful and both jihadis and their sympathizers are plentiful? Why haven't the hundreds of guerrilla groups in Africa - armed with cheap and plentiful SA-7's - been able to bring down significant numbers of jetliners over decades, where there are no secure perimeters around the jungle airstrips that serve as airports in much of sub-Saharan Africa? The idea that portable SAM's are somehow this terrorist panacea is just so absurd, it confirms my assumptions about de Borchgrave - he doesn't know what he is talking about.
#5
Not sure exactly what to make of this article. It's almost incoherent, and I'm not sure if that reflects Borchgrave's writing or the fact that he's writing about incoherent people.
Zhang Fei is spot on about the SA-7s, and it makes me wonder if the problem with reporters like Borchgrave is that, devoid of any military skill or knowledge, they begin to just accept what their interview subjects tell them.
Note the oft-repeated anti-globalist charge now adopted by Islamists: America is living on the hog off of someone else's natural resources. Guess we must have forgotten to pay for all that oil over the years.
Also, the raw numbers of Islamists and their supporters that Borchgrave mentions look formidable, but a terrorist juggernaut pouring into the U.S. it does not make. A good operative in the U.S. must have some technical skills, be proficient in English, be disciplined, be subtle enough to not be immediately spotted as a loon, and, probably most difficult, be able to live here for long periods without getting sucked into the easy life. There's a reason we don't constantly have suicide boomers popping up in shopping malls (yet).
Finally, a point that I get tired of hearing: once George Bush goes away, the world will be happy with us. This ongoing conflict is not about George Bush. It started when he was still hitting the Friday night Happy Hour in Texas, and it'll be here when he's gone. In many respects it's like the conflict with communism: the two warring sides represent something absolutely contrary to the other's belief (i.e., free markets vs. command economies; individualism vs. collectivism; separation of church & state vs. Koranic law, etc.)
#6
dreadnought: Note the oft-repeated anti-globalist charge now adopted by Islamists: America is living on the hog off of someone else's natural resources. Guess we must have forgotten to pay for all that oil over the years.
These guys aren't even original - they're recycling Soviet propaganda. The reality, of course, is that we buy these things at market prices - i.e. cost + some profit for the producers. Oil - we buy from a cartel that sells it for a huge profit over extraction cost - for the Saudis, a 90% net profit at the pump. I wish we could sell our products at a 90% profit, too, but that's not in the cards.
#7
Of course, the most ironic part of these accusations is that the absolute worst thing, bar none, that we could do to the Muslim world is to stop buying oil from them. Their mono-economies would collapse in a matter of weeks, if not days.
#8
the nine-branched Jewish Menorah Hanukiyah and stars of David
quibble (but as the local expert on these things, let me) Technically the nine candled thingie is a hanukiah, and a menorah is a seven candled thingie, but the nine candled hanukiah is often called a menorah by Jews and nonJews alike. However its only the seven candled menorah that is routinely displayed on the exterior of synagogues - the nine candled hanukiah would be displayed only at Hanukkah.
#9
You tell 'em, LH! (Not to mention that the Chanukkia would only be displayed inside, or set in a window -- unless of course, the Chabadniks are fighting public Xmas displays in your area with gigantic free-standing Chanukkias).
But the whole article appears riddled with similar mistakes of fact and understanding, even to this little midwestern housewife.
#10
ZF, try 900% profit. It used to cost the Saudis $3/barrel (not sure what the latest figure is, but WTH, lets go wild and say $4). The Columbian cocaine cartel can't even touch that.
Posted by: ed ||
08/10/2004 22:57 Comments ||
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... "What we have seen all across the country -- at military bases, at critical infrastructure facilities, at soft civilian targets such as schools, shopping malls [and] sports arenas, and domestic and international airline flights -- are probing attacks" said Peter Leitner, co-founder of the Higgins Counter Terrorism Research Center in Arlington, Va.
"Probing attacks are designed to elicit a response in an effort to map out patterns of reactions by law enforcement, the ease of approaching and withdrawing from a target and to test the reaction of the civilian population to a potential attack situation," Leitner told CNSNews.com.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 2:41:26 AM ||
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#1
And of course the apologist @$$h@t Ibrahim Hooper chalks it all up to 'mercan racism. Well now Hooper, anyone removing a mirror in a bathroom is gonna raise suspicion so STFU. Hooper is prime example of why Islam in its current form will not survive.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/10/2004 13:10 Comments ||
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#2
Unless we want to be attacked, private citizens should respond to probing attacks actively by reasonable means well short of deadly force. Firm is good. Vigilante hurts our society.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 16:27 Comments ||
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And when it happens, expect the Dim-O-Rats to blame Bush, not the terrorists.
My emergency closet is stocket (keep it ready anyway for hurricanes and power outages), my go-bag for the rescue squad is ready, and I've got my .357 and my digital camera with me all the time.
Guess I should should stock up on bullets, too.
It's coming.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/10/2004 16:52 Comments ||
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#5
I just wear white tube socks on every flight I take. If you load a full can of coke in a size 13 sweatsock, you have a pretty potent weapon - the odor assualt is an extra bonus if Haji ducks the swing. I am betting that a good crack to the jaw with a can of "the real thing" will dramtically alter Swanny River as played by a Syrian oboeist.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 17:14 Comments ||
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#6
I have one of those Aluminum Halliburton (HALLIBURTON!) briefcases. Loaded, it is heavy and hard and therefore an excellent defensive and offensive weapon.
These days, I ALWAYS look at my fellow passengers looking for "threats" and "allies". I define threats as any arab-looking man OR woman. I define friend as a large 'merican man. I want to know where both types are on the plane. Jus' bein' prepared.
Todd, we will never forget your selfless act and we will use you and your brave planemates as an example to be followed.
Folks, bottom-line it is up to us to watch our surroundings, looking for signs. It starts within us all as individuals.
#7
Bad idea to mess with a short lady in high heels ;-)
Seriously, both my daughters will have their black belts by Xmas, and one of the 3rd degrees at the school is a Delta stewardess currently on special assignment teaching "airplane martial arts" to her colleagues.
Booze. Gambling. Scantily-clad women... They probably cased it over and over...
Maybe they were just attending the National Association of Broadcasters convention as guest speakers.
A year after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the Justice Department obtained video surveillance tapes suggesting terrorists were targeting Las Vegas casinos but authorities never alerted the public as they discussed whether a warning might hurt tourism or increase the casinos' legal liability, internal memos show. The mayor of Las Vegas said yesterday he was never told about the tapes uncovered in Detroit and Spain in 2002, and had been assured by the FBI there were no credible threats against his city. "If I were told, I would certainly tell the public," Mayor Oscar Goodman said. But memos and e-mails between federal prosecutors, obtained by The Associated Press, say Las Vegas authorities were alerted to some of the footage by Aug. 30, 2002. Later, numerous local law enforcement officials were invited by a senior FBI agent to view the footage, but most spurned the invitation, the memos say.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/10/2004 12:50:44 AM ||
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but authorities never alerted the public as they discussed whether a warning might hurt tourism or increase the casinosâ legal liability, internal memos show.
I remember hearing that Las Vegas was a possible intended target just after 911. Besides, you can't have it both ways...either you want them to issue terror warnings or they are political dirty tricks. Make up your mind, waffles.
Posted by: B ||
08/10/2004 10:39 Comments ||
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#2
Why would anyone need to be notified that Las Vegas might be a target of terrorists? They probably canx'd the plan after Siegfried and Roy shut down. After that what was the point.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 17:09 Comments ||
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#3
Time to send in "The Syrian Reconaissance Orchestra"?
EFL - a primer on why prosecuting terrorists in civilian courts is a bad idea.
Prosecutors in the first major terror trial after Sept. 11 were hindered by superiors from presenting some of their most powerful evidence, including testimony from an al-Qaida leader and video footage showing Osama bin Laden's European operatives casing American landmarks, Justice Department memos show. The department's terrorism unit "provided no help of any kind in this prosecution," the U.S. Attorney's office in Detroit wrote in one of the memos, which detail bitter divisions between front-line prosecutors and their superiors in Washington. The Detroit case ended last summer with the convictions, hailed by the Bush administration, of three men who were accused of operating a sleeper terror cell that possessed plans for attacks around the world.
A fourth defendant was acquitted, however, and only two of the four men originally arrested were convicted of terrorism charges. Now the convictions are in jeopardy because of an internal investigation into allegations that defense lawyers were denied evidence that could have helped them. Whatever the outcome, internal documents obtained by The Associated Press and more than three dozen interviews with current and former officials detail how the differences between Washington and the field office kept important evidence from being shown to jurors. "We were butting heads vigorously with narrow-shouldered bureaucrats in Washington," Assistant U.S. Attorney Richard Convertino told AP in an interview. He is the lead Detroit prosecutor who is now under investigation in Washington. -snip- plenty more at the link.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 2:23:23 AM ||
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Prosecutors were told by superiors they could not introduce the Spanish tape unless they went through a lengthy bureaucratic process, known as the Letters Rogatory, that establishes chain of custody for foreign evidence.
#2
LETTERS ROGATORY. A letter rogatory is an instrument sent in the name and by the authority of a judge or court to another, requesting the latter to cause to be examined, upon interrogatories filed in a cause depending before the former, a witness who is within the jurisdiction of the judge or court to whom such letters are addressed. In letters rogatory there is always an offer on the part of the court whence they issued, to render a similar service to the court to which they may be directed whenever required.
So all the judge had to do was write a letter to the Spanish court, most likely thru both countries state department.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/10/2004 13:16 Comments ||
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Skipping a primer on the Prudential ...
As unspectacular as it might seem to most Americans, the Prudential Plaza building is a site of intense interest to Osama bin Laden and his operatives. Beginning in 2000, al-Qaeda operatives inside the U.S. conducted detailed surveillance of the Prudential building, with the apparent intent of destroying it and killing the civilians who work there. They took multiple photographs of the building and observed the parking garage underneath. One report outlined possible methods for carrying out an attack. Written in English, the report noted that it might be difficult to drive trucks or vans into the parking lot. Black limousines, however, could approach without much trouble. The report proposed acquiring a limo, gutting everything except the front seats and presumably filling it with explosives. It then provided details on the New Jersey Transit rail system and nearby PATH trains and maps of the network and train timetables--suggesting that instead of deploying a suicide-bomb squad, al-Qaeda may have been exploring ways to escape after pulling off the attack.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/10/2004 12:25:14 AM ||
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The Dims are such wussies. A conspiracy behind every corner. Sounds like another Moore movie in the making on terror threats, don't ya think?
Posted by: Capt America ||
08/10/2004 0:34 Comments ||
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#2
Dan, this is a llllooooonnnnngggg post, but it is void all the bs from the Time website, so thanks.
Posted by: Capt America ||
08/10/2004 0:35 Comments ||
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#3
Dan, this is a llllooooonnnnngggg post, but it is void all the bs from the Time website, so thanks.
Posted by: Capt America ||
08/10/2004 0:37 Comments ||
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#4
It's an ongoing problem I've had with long articles from websites that require registration in some idiotic form or another, but hopefully it's of some use.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/10/2004 0:41 Comments ||
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#5
Shows again we're America the Vulnerable. We need to increase security EVERYWHERE within the united states that is vulnerable. Did you know that only about 10-30% of customs ships are actually checked?! That's outrageous. We need somebody to check that, limos that are suspicious...just about everything. But hey, homeland security is only so powerful.
Al-Qaeda may attempt to launch attacks in U.S. cities using helicopters or rented limousines packed with explosives as weapons, the FBI said in two nationwide bulletins. Terror operatives could attempt to hijack commercial, charter or tourist helicopter flights and use them in suicide attacks against buildings, parades or sporting events, said one of the intelligence bulletins obtained Monday by The Associated Press. Helicopters and limousines could both help terrorists get closer to targeted buildings, the FBI warnings said. The warnings were sent Friday night by the FBI and the Homeland Security Department to 18,000 state and local law enforcement agencies, other government officials and private groups.
Intelligence gathered overseas indicates that Al Qaeda still has its sights on the U.S. Capitol, in addition to the five financial institutions in Washington, New York and New Jersey revealed last week, a White House official said Sunday. The targeting of the Capitol and members of Congress — which had been known previously — came up again "as part of this continuing threat stream" that led officials on Aug. 1 to raise the terror alert, White House domestic security advisor Frances Townsend said on CBS' "Face the Nation." "There were other targets that we were aware of," she said, adding that intelligence suggests Al Qaeda operatives "practiced in the training camps for assassinations and kidnappings."
Townsend did not reveal what information investigators had seen about a potential attack against members of Congress. Detailed surveillance reports, written in 2001 on the New York Stock Exchange, Citigroup Inc., Prudential Financial Inc., the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund were found during a raid in Pakistan last month and were forwarded to U.S. intelligence. Some of the files had been updated this year.
Townsend, who assumed her post in May after serving as a White House terrorism advisor, Coast Guard intelligence officer and federal prosecutor, said investigators also found less detailed reports on additional terrorist targets, though she did not identify them. She said the intelligence information gathered by investigators is much better than the chatter picked up the summer before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. "I think it's much more definitive, clearer and much more detailed. I think it feels sort of more serious, more urgent than it did even then," she said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/10/2004 12:11:00 AM ||
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#1
I would be quite surprised if the Jihadis don't hit us with a full court press in the US and abroad just before the elections. If something worked before, keep doing it (thanks Spain). Though one thing I don't understand is why Sadr's Madhi thugs decided to shoot it out now instead of waiting till October so that all the Jihadis could let loose with everything they have to influence the elections.
Posted by: ed ||
08/10/2004 0:28 Comments ||
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#2
I think Sadr got prodded. Sistani's convenient heart condition, the continued efforts to serve him with an "arrest warrant", and his big mouth got him into trouble now. Good thing too, I'm happy to see him slapped down before the RNC.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/10/2004 0:36 Comments ||
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Malaysian authorities have handed over three suspected Islamic militants to their Thai counterparts and will detain an alleged prime mover behind the spate of violence in Thailand's Muslim-dominated deep South, a government source said yesterday.
The source said officials in Malaysia have also detained, at an undisclosed location, suspected separatist Poh Su Ismail, the alleged author of the booklet advocating separatism found on the bodies of some of the insurgents killed during the April 28 uprising.
Thailand's government was quick to portray the 34-page booklet, The Fight for the Liberation of Pattani, as a deviation from Islamic teachings, but Islamic studies scholars said the booklet was nothing more than an organisational handbook that contains no theology.
The booklet depicted the Muslim-dominated region as an occupied territory and urged fellow Muslims to rise up against the state to liberate the region. Thailand has reportedly submitted to the Malaysian government the names of 22 suspects they want deported.
The three suspects' extradition and Poh Su's detention are unprecedented, and could mark the beginning of improved security relations in security co-operation relations, the officer said. Thai authorities believe that a score of Muslim insurgents linked to this year's violence have fled to Malaysia to avoid arrest.
Interior Minister Bhokin Bhalakula is scheduled to meet his Malaysian counterpart and senior Malaysian security officials in Phuket next week to discuss ways of halting the violence in the south.
The southern provinces have been wracked by clashes this year, which have left about 300 dead.
Intelligence officers said the insurgents were a new breed of militants, with cells operating independently in attacks, bombings and killings in the region.
In related developments, a team of 70 police officers — including 50 under-cover agents — swamped the Nakhon Si Thammarat airport Monday evening after authorities received a tip-off that a suspected al-Qaeda member was arriving in the southern city, the official said.
No one was arrested as the warning appeared to be a hoax, the officer said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/10/2004 2:58:46 PM ||
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good signs from Malaysia?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 20:41 Comments ||
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The Philippines says it is open to sending a fresh humanitarian mission to Iraq under a United Nations charter, following a diplomatic row with the United States for its recent abrupt troop pullout. The Philippines last month angered the US and other coalition partners when it withdrew its 51-man contingent ahead of schedule. The pullout met demands by Iraqi militants, who had threatened to behead a Filipino hostage. However, measures are being taken to patch up what US ambassador to Manila Francis Ricciardone calls a "very serious disagreement". There are threats of possible aid cut-backs from the US, Philippines's key military and trade ally. Foreign Secretary Delia Albert says that Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi has written to President Gloria Arroyo expressing an "ardent wish" for both countries to work in boosting cooperation in security issues. President Gloria Arroyo in response assured Mr Allawi that Manila is still committed to helping rebuild Iraq. Ms Albert says Ms Arroyo remains open to the idea of sending peacekeepers under a UN framework.
"And since odds are against there being any kind of UN framework, we probably won't have to, right, Narcisso?"
"That's correct, Madame President! And might I comment that you look particularly ravishing today!"
She says the Philippines "will continue to engage ourselves with the development of his (Allawi's) country."
"We just won't get very close to it."
"And that's a stunning brooch, Madame President!"
Posted by: Fred ||
08/10/2004 4:16:29 PM ||
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#1
What the hell for? They'll just turn tail and run again.
Anyway, they'll need all their troops at home now that they've shown their islamonazis how to win.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/10/2004 16:38 Comments ||
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#2
I'll reserve judgement until another Philippine national is kidnapped. That's when the rubber will meet the road.
Does anyone have factual confirmation of the six million dollar ransom that the Philippines was supposed to have paid? If it truly happened, that alone was a crime in and of itself.
#4
It is going to be damned hard to rebuild trust between the US and Arroyo's government after we got stabbed in the back in Iraq. Arroyo needs to learn this lesson. It must be burned into her brain. You want the quid with out the pro quo? Find another sucker.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/10/2004 17:15 Comments ||
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#5
I have also thought we should pull our troops out, but that would be a bad idea. I know I have read numerous stories about JI-affiliated groups using the S Phillipines islands for training bases since there is little authority there. We need to be there because it is in our interests to limit this.
#6
How about deploying their famous 82nd Filipino Airborne Hostage Brigade?
Posted by: ed ||
08/10/2004 17:32 Comments ||
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#7
You're right, Brett. Like Japan and Okinawa during the Cold War, we now need the Philippines as a forward base in fighting Asian terrorism. Sadly, the Philippines does not seem to understand that they need us a lot more than we need them. Arroyo really screwed the pooch with her ill thought out move.
She pissed off more than just America. Many Philippine guest workers (and their families at home) will wonder why this one hostage got the red carpet treatment while so many others come home in cardboard coffins from Saudi Arabia after being raped as sex slaves or held as virtual prisoners.
(Well, if you got out of our faces with your 7th century lunacy, people might get out of your face. Is that a deal? No! thought not)
Lately, the Letters' section in malaysiakini has become more and more insensitive to other people's faith and religion. Try to find a letter from a Muslim, condemning other religions' rules or laws, will you find one?
Sermons, on the other hand...
But Islamic laws and practices have been criticised by non-Muslims, some of whom don't even know the exact rules regarding certain things in Islam. Apostasy is one issue, followed by the non-halal food issue in schools and then the Majlis Mufti Malaysia's decision on TV3's Karnival Sure Heboh. In the issue of apostasy, David King simply do not know that as a Muslim, defending Islam is a must, and the responsibility of every Muslim. It is the effort that counts for Muslims, though the result is in God's hand.
That's why good Muslims have to try to kill apostates...
If there is any law in any other religion regarding leaving one's religion, then let's hear it.
I don't think excommunication falls into the same category as homicide. I suppose I could be wrong...
I guess every religion believes that everything stated in their holy books is from God. But for non- Muslims to comment on Islamic laws is ridiculous, the same as it is for any Muslim to comment on the laws of other religions'.
Muslims comment on other religions and cultures seemingly at every opportunity. Non-Moose Limbs tend to comment more on the bloodthirst, perfidy, endemic brutality and primitivism associated with Islam...
#2
Islam isn't just a religion, it's a set of laws as well. So when they talk about their "religion" they are also talking about the laws they intend to follow - many of which are contrary to the laws of our land.
What ever happened to the oath of citizenship. It seems to me that, according to the Muslim's themselves, they have to agree to follow our laws if they want to become citizens....and apparently those are in conflict with their "religion". Not acceptable, sorry.
Posted by: B ||
08/10/2004 13:59 Comments ||
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#5
1. Of course its desirable that when we discuss another religions laws and practices, we do so with as much knowledge as possible.
2. Nonetheless its inevitable that when religious practice impacts on others, even in innocous ways, discussion of said practice becomes inevitable. For example the prayer room. I could respond that Judaism requires prayer 3 times per day. On the other hand one need not have group to pray with, one can do so by oneself. Unless, of course, one is in mourning, and needs a prayer quorum to say Kaddish, the prayer for the dead. So do observant Jews have the same needs as Muslims? It requires a discussion of BOTH jewish and muslim practice to see. While resentment of others unnecessarily and ignorantly discussing ones religious practice is understandable, this can easily look like excessive touchiness.
#6
Zpaz: Does YOUR religion allow flying airplanes into buildings? No? Then why are you questioning it? If your religion allowed flying airplanes into buildings, do you think Moozleems would criticize it?
#7
In other words, Islamic laws should be beyond criticism, even discussion for both Muslims and other believers.
Funny, how they view themselves, isn't it? Muslims don't comment on anyone else's laws so why do you persecute us, sez the mooslim guy. Strange, I thought Islam was the religion that defined itself from the beginning by constantly and obsessively comparing itself to the religions that came before it. How is it even possible to say that your religion is the final religion in a string of religions without being concerned with differentiating yourself from them through comparison? When your religion is the latest one, how is it possible to even begin without commenting on another religion's laws and beliefs and criticizing them? Wouldn't your religion then be founded on denial and judgement of other religons???
This guy is rich.
I don't think I need to remind any Christians here about this, but until 9/11, Islam was given practically no notice by Christians except for what was then the fringe. Muslims have been training their kids from knee high to be able to rehearse why they are not Christians or Jews for decades now. Islamism and its conviction that Islam is infinitely superior to other religions has been a force in the world for a century. In sermon after sermon in mosques all over the world, imams begin by comparing and criticizing other religions then moving on to "prove" how much better Islam is. Its the form that almost every sermon takes. You can count on any Muslim is any situation to try and turn the subject to criticism of Western life/religion and the virtues of Islam.
Fecking hell, people like this really annoy me. Can you tell? ;)
#8
The source page http://media.islamway.com/arabic/images/lessons/burek/monkey.rm has now been removed and the http://media.islamway.com is now forbidden to infidels. How are the little Jihadis gonna get their daily dose of Islamic pr0n when they keep moving the links?
Posted by: ed ||
08/10/2004 16:31 Comments ||
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#9
BH, you ask why I am questioning Islamhick "law"s? I question said laws because practitioners of said laws are trying to kill me. Do you get it now?
From The Washington Post
Two years before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, the ringleaders of the plot had a different destination in mind: Chechnya. But a chance encounter with a stranger on a train in Germany led the conspirators in a new direction, eventually putting them in touch for the first time with Osama bin Laden and the leadership of al Qaeda. The 1999 episode on the German train, disclosed in the final report of the U.S. commission that investigated the attacks, is based on interrogation reports that until recently were kept secret. According to the account, a mysterious passenger -- identified as Khalid Masri, a name that has not previously surfaced in public records of the investigation -- urged the Islamic radicals from Hamburg to put off their mission to Chechnya until they could speak with a Mauritanian businessman, who in turn arranged a personal introduction to bin Laden. ....
The Sept. 11 commission's findings are based on classified reports of interrogations of Ramzi Binalshibh, a core member of the Hamburg cell who was supposed to serve as a lead hijacker but could not get a visa to enter the United States. He was captured in Pakistan in 2002 and is in U.S. custody in a secret location. During interrogation, Binalshibh described the 1999 encounter on the German train that ultimately led the Hamburg group to meet bin Laden. His statements also led the Sept. 11 commission to reach a conclusion different from that of the German prosecutors, who alleged the plot originated in their country. .... For years, German authorities have wondered how the hijackings could have been planned in their midst without triggering any alarms. Now, the U.S. investigation has answered their question by saying the plot was not hatched here. ....
But the fresh disclosures present a severe challenge to German prosecutors in the upcoming trial. The indictment against Motassadeq charges that he played a direct role in furthering the attacks. Under German law in effect at the time, he can be found guilty of helping or belonging to a terrorist organization only if the conspiracy was planned within Germany. ....
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/10/2004 5:56:26 PM ||
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THE US fight against terror is moving to the Pacific islands, with Washington set to launch several multi-million-dollar projects to track terrorist financing and money-laundering in the region, senior US sources have revealed. A Fiji-based "flying squad" of US financial investigators is to visit vulnerable Pacific states to track suspicious funds and compare money flows through the region, under the US State Department's Pacific strategy.
Fiji-based, huh? Another one of those "hard-ship" posts.
Agents from the department's "drugs 'n thugs" bureau, the Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing Group, had already begun training Fijian investigators in the worldwide pilot of a new State Department computer system that simulated the latest illegal money-smuggling methods, the Washington sources said. The importance of Pacific security was also underlined yesterday by US Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly, who arrived at the Pacific Islands Forum meeting in Samoa to deliver a stern warning to Pacific nations that they were particularly vulnerable to terrorists looking for a "soft target". Mr Kelly praised John Howard's "forthright" leadership in the region and thanked Australia for taking part in the Iraq war. "Terrorist organisations such as Jemaah Islamiah are not far in time and space from the Pacific and we must be constantly alert," Mr Kelly said at the forum. "Governments must also refrain from measures that could provide unintended support to terrorist networks."
Posted by: tipper ||
08/10/2004 11:46:35 AM ||
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ELF - Here's an interesting bit from the middle:
Khan's cooperation with investigators, plus his extensive record of communications, led to yet another break. Ahmed the Tanzanian's real name is Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, and investigators say he was the man who purchased the truck that was used in the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, back in 1998.
Twelve days after Khan's arrest, on July 25, Ghailani was seized in the Pakistani city of Gurjat, and investigators took possession of a laptop computer that contained on its hard drive maps and messages detailing surveillance information about several of the five sites in New York, Newark, and Washington that federal officials rushed to protect. The information, investigators say, all dated back to before the September 11 attacks. But the real bonanza was the information investigators could now cross-reference from Khan's and Ghailani's computers, and from cellphones evidently taken from the two men. Comparing these data against electronically intercepted information by the Pentagon's supersecret Echelon computer yielded an even bigger bonanza.
Khan's arrest led to six phone numbers for locations in the United States, investigators said, declining to specify the locations. Many other numbers obtained from the two men had already been collected in Echelon's enormous database, and investigators are working now to re-examine several cryptic and coded conversations in light of the new information to identify new potential threats. The Echelon data, one intelligence official says, are so good, "it's as good as being there."
Big fish. Sharing that kind of intelligence in real time with America's partners in the war on terrorism is also a relatively new development, and it's paying some handsome dividends. On August 3, British authorities arrested perhaps the most important al Qaeda member since Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. The Brits, evidently, had had Abu Issa al-Hindi under surveillance when the CIA, working with the information from Ghailani's computer, forwarded it to its British counterpart. Hindi, the officials said, had played a critical role in the gathering of surveillance information on the five financial sites in the United States, and may have authored some or all of the documents found on the seized computer.
Today, there is no sign that the hemorrhaging of al Qaeda is about to end. Worth reading the whole article
Posted by: Spot ||
08/10/2004 8:58:50 AM ||
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#1
other people are speculating that Khan was a double agent and his arrest blew it
#5
thats Spencer Ackerman, no? He has an ax to grind on Iraq war and the Admin (which would fit in with dissing Pakistani cooperation). Though i note same item is mentioned in NYT piece Dan quoted elsewhere here.
Worth noting, MHW, but I'll take the speculation as just that for now, though i may check the TNR piece - usually ive avoided Iraqd, as its not particularly insiteful on the situation IN Iraq.
#6
Yesterday on FOX a former CIA (insert grain of salt) was interviewed and said Khan's handlers felt he was on the brink of being compromised and the arrest was the only way to protect him. They didn't want him killed by Al Queda.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/10/2004 11:17 Comments ||
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checked it. Not so much that khan was a double agent prior to capture, but that SUBSEQUENT to capture the Paks had him sending emails to other AQs without those AQ's knowledge. This according to Paki Interior Minister, was blown by the US ANNOUNCING his arrest. Not that the arrest blew him, or that the Pakis blew it, but that the BUSHIES blew it. Which is something else again, IF true - Im not sure how much to go with Hayat on this - he has every incentive to maximize the value of what Pakland did.
In any case something strikes me as nasty about Spencer citing this as an example of a Bush foul up, when it was his own pals (the Anti bush foreign policy faction within TNR) who have been pushing the line that the Orange alert and the Ghailani capture was a political ploy to divert attention from Kerrys address at the Dem Convention. Now Im not the first to stand up for Bush, and I like TNR, but it seems to me that John Judis and company virtually forced the Bushies to reveal the circumstances of the Ghailani arrest and the rationale behind the alert - then attacking that revelation is just dirty pool.
#10
That's what so interesting and frustrating about Intel and Counter-Intel... You never know if your discoveries are the truth... or if you're being played.
#12
At the risk of getting on Aris' Christmas card list, I'll repeat what I said on another post--you believe the Pakis about Khan? The Pakis?
Once again, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Old, slow intelligence involved watching the source until it disappeared--never tip your hand. What we know now is that Intel comes from kicking down doors, quickly evaluating what you've gathered, and using it to figure out the next door to kick down before the enemy has the time to react. If Khan was such a disastrous "leak," how is it that we're still kicking down door after door and gathering up bad guys with eyes like a deer's in the headlights? Keep 'em running, keep 'em guessing, keep 'em scared. They can't hurt us much that way.
#16
If the administration "blew" Khan's cover, it's because they HAD to to get people to take their warnings seriously. Anyone else remember the idiot Democrats whining about the latest terror warnings? Anyone else remember that the info related to Khan came out as an answer to that whining?
The Donks burnt Khan by trying to score political points; their behavior is why, in the past, "politics stops at the waters edge". Yeah, I know there's an election on, but we had elections during WWII and I'm pretty damned sure the Republicans didn't play games like this. If they had, we'd still be hearing about it.
It's nice to hear LH is on the same page here. The Democrats have been utterly worthless on terror, and this is just another example.
As for Aris -- idiot. The party that thinks the election is more important than the war is the Democrats. Pay attention for a change.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/10/2004 13:21 Comments ||
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RC - im not sure id go as far as to say the Dems burned khan - first because im not sure the whole story is true - see the comments on the 1000 disks thread - this may well be something else entirely - and cause Im not completely happy with that blameshifting either - the admin is still responsible for its own actions - i just had a particular problem with a TNR blog going after them, without even hinting that TNRs own article had pushed the bushies into it.
As for WW2, at least some Repubs opposed Lend Lease to the USSR, and pushed for more effort in the Pacific and less in Europe, and shifts in command in China (Chennault vs Stillwell) and the Pacific (more power to MacArthur). So yeah, wars been political for a long time.
And of course the Bushies have launched a hueg tax cut in wartime, unprecedented in US history, giving up money that could be used for everything from homeland security to more army divisions. I suppose one could say that winning reelection is worth it, since a Dem victory would hurt the WOT more. Similarly a Dem could say that Kerry would be so much better, it justifies playing politics with the WOT. Frankly I dont like EITHER logic, and thats why im not pleased at the choice Ive got.
So, should I write in Leiberman, McCain, or :) Tony Blair?
#18
Hold on a second, wasn't it a Foreign Intelligence of the Pakistani government that first confirmed the capture? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Posted by: Charles ||
08/10/2004 13:41 Comments ||
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If the administration "blew" Khan's cover, it's because they HAD to to get people to take their warnings seriously.
Ooh, what a nice idea. And *next* week, why not hand over nuclear weapons to Iran just so that people take the Iranian threat seriously?
As for Aris -- idiot. The party that thinks the election is more important than the war is the Democrats. Pay attention for a change.
It's Rantburg Republicans that I've heard arguing in favour of launching a new civil war in America to break away the Republican states in the case the Democrats wins.
What's inconvenient to you, both in this thread and previous ones, is that I pay too *much* attention to what's being said and argued. And I've seen no difference whatsoever between Republican and Democrat fanatics in the way that *both* of them think that the elections are more important than the war.
#21
What is telling is that "Kerry" is keeping his trap shut. He apperently now is getting breifings. Take this for what you will but if this is "political" he would be on it like flys on crap. I am guessing it's something else. It may be purposeful misdirection. Spys do that.
#23
What is telling is that "Kerry" is keeping his trap shut. He apperently now is getting breifings. Take this for what you will but if this is "political" he would be on it like flys on crap. I am guessing it's something else. It may be purposeful misdirection. Spys do that.
I'll wait for Old Spook's input, thankyouverymuch.
#24
LH: im not sure id go as far as to say the Dems burned khan
Why not? They whined about the "old information" and forced the administration into revealing more. Since there are Donks on the various Congressional committees, there's certainly ways for them to get the background info and then reassure the rest of their party.
But, no, the Democrats -- and their sycophants in the press -- decided that scoring a few political points was more important. So they screamed about "old information" and groused about "politicizing terror", and made it clear they had NO intention of being responsible adults.
Be honest -- if the administration had responded to the whining with, "releasing any more information would put lives and operations at risk", do you think the whining would have stopped, or just gotten louder? I vote for "louder" -- and add "shriller".
As for WW2, at least some Repubs opposed Lend Lease to the USSR, and pushed for more effort in the Pacific and less in Europe, and shifts in command in China (Chennault vs Stillwell) and the Pacific (more power to MacArthur).
None of that compares to the Democrat actions of today.
Aris: Ooh, what a nice idea. And *next* week, why not hand over nuclear weapons to Iran just so that people take the Iranian threat seriously?
That's Kerry's plan, Aris, though I doubt he has any intention of taking the threat seriously.
It's Rantburg Republicans that I've heard arguing in favour of launching a new civil war in America to break away the Republican states in the case the Democrats wins.
Um, yeah. Sure, Aris, sure. Where have I ever said that? Hmmm?
I'm pretty damned sure I haven't, and I don't see why you keep trying to make ME answer for what other people say. Or can I start taking you to task for what others say?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/10/2004 16:11 Comments ||
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#25
"It's Rantburg Republicans that I've heard arguing in favour of launching a new civil war in America to break away the Republican states in the case the Democrats wins." Um, yeah. Sure, Aris, sure.
Feel free to pretend that it didn't happen.
Where have I ever said that? Hmmm? I'm pretty damned sure I haven't
Also feel free to pretend that I ever said it was you who said it, rather than Rantburg Republicans in general.
, and I don't see why you keep trying to make ME answer for what other people say.
And lastly, pretend that my comment wasn't a direct response to you about how it's not only Democrats that feel the elections are more important than the war, but Republicans also.
I have no use for your dishonest rhetorical tactics, Robert. What you are responsible for is only your own ad hominem commentary -- e.g. saying "pay attention for starters" because I actually notice *more* stuff than you myopically do (and I don't choose to forget them either), or you calling me an idiot because I don't agree with you. Not to mention the times you've called me a liar, because I held a different opinion.
#26
As for WW2, at least some Repubs opposed Lend Lease to the USSR, and pushed for more effort in the Pacific and less in Europe, and shifts in command in China (Chennault vs Stillwell) and the Pacific (more power to MacArthur).
None of that compares to the Democrat actions of today.
RC - I fail to see why not - they were very significant issues.
AK - theres a bunch of pretty extreme people on this site. The good owners and major contributors run a site on intel and strategy in the WOT - this seems to inevitably attract a certain element. Whats the point of feeding them??
From Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty
Al-Najaf police chief Brigadier General Ghalib Hadi al-Jaza'iri has reportedly written a letter to the Iraqi Interior Ministry proposing cutting off water and electricity supplies to the Old City of Al-Najaf where al-Sadr militiamen are holed up in an effort to drive them out, Al-Manar television reported on 10 August. The plan reportedly calls for cutting off the delivery of fruit and vegetables to the Old City. Al-Manar learned of the plan through al-Sadr office spokesman Sheikh Ahmad al-Shaybani. Al-Jaza'iri later confirmed the plan, telling Al-Manar that it was a suggestion that has not been approved. He implied that al-Sadr's office learned of the plan after the letter was stolen from his car. The plan reportedly also called for the Iraqi government to request that residents of the Old City leave their homes to facilitate the plan. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/10/2004 11:57:37 PM ||
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From BBC News
Iran says Iraq has expressed regret over comments from one of its ministers accusing Tehran of arming Shia militia groups in the holy city of Najaf. Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi said he had been reassured that the comments by Hazim al-Shalaan did not represent an official view of the Najaf situation. .... Iran's defence minister had slammed his Iraqi counterpart as an inexperienced political amateur for making the claim. ....
The latest disagreement began on Monday when Mr Shalaan, Iraq's interim defence minister, told Dubai-based al-Arabiya television that Mr Sadr's militia was receiving weapons from Iran. "Iran has left a fingerprint in Najaf. There are weapons made inside Iran that were found in Najaf in the hands of these criminals which have received these arms through the Iranian borders," he said. "Facts about what has happened to the Iraqi people show... that [Iran] is the number one enemy."
His Iranian counterpart Ali Shamkhani hit back on Tuesday, saying Mr Shalaan's comments showed he lacked the minimum qualifications for knowing the truth. Iran's right-wing press went further, with one conservative newspaper, Kayhan, describing Mr Shalaan as a "dyed-in-the-wool Baathist" whose hands are dipped deep in the innocent blood of Iraqi and Iranian Muslims.
Later on Tuesday, Mr Kharrazi said he had discussed the matter with his own counterpart, Hoshyar Zebari, by telephone. "The Iraqi foreign minister expressed regret and said [Mr Shalaan's comments] were not the official stance of the Iraqi government," he told the official Irna news agency. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/10/2004 11:38:36 PM ||
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From Khilafah, crediting KCom Journal
Oh Muslim youth!
Oh Muslims from the land of the Arabs!
Oh descendents of the Mujahideen and Scholars!
Oh youth from the banks of the Nile!
What is happening cannot have failed to attract your attention. You have seen the changes, month-by-month and year-by-year as the Muslims are under almost continuous attack. The Americans seek to crush anyone who wishes to raise the banner of Islam once again. They will never leave the Islamic world until they control all of the people, every resource and destroy any threat to their dominance.
We all know this. We know that Iraq has now been captured and they intend to continue to the rest of the Islamic world. If they send troops to Sudan after the pressure that they are putting on that government then they will be on the doorstep of Egypt. When will it be Egypt's turn? If America ever attacks Egypt, we know that every man and woman will fight with his or her teeth and nails to repel the attack. The Americans will not find it easy to defeat the Muslims of Egypt.
But why do the Muslims wait to be attacked before they react. If we wait until the point that war is being brought against us, then we will have put ourselves into a vulnerable position. Just because the American and Israeli planes are not bombing Cairo does not mean the war is yet to begin. There has been an intellectual war for a long time, but never as strong as it has been in the last 2 years. The enemy is making strategic manoeuvres in Iraq, Israel and Sudan while the Muslims remain stationary, not even preparing.
Indeed, this Ummah is one Ummah. By attacking Afghanistan and Iraq, the enemy has already started their material attack against the Muslims. How can the Muslims of Egypt consider themselves to be separated from this? Why is it that you can criticise anyone in Egypt except Mubarak and his family? Why is it that the youth are encouraged to listen to music, smoke hashish, and free mix with the opposite sex instead of building the land towards strength and prosperity? Why is it that the economy is in ruins and nobody really cares? Why is it that every young person wants to leave Egypt to work, even though they love their home? How can Egypt be the mother of the world when it cannot even feed itself? Why is it that everyone knows that something is going to happen and yet nobody wants to make something happen? ....
What has happened to you? Where is the dignity you once had? The Muslims in Egypt have always been believers who did not stand for shirk and oppression. When the Mongols invaded Bagdhad and Damascus and the whole world was afraid of them, it was the Muslims from Egypt and Palestine who fought them and defeated them and returned Islam to the world. They fought with Salah El Din to liberate Al Quds from the barbarian Crusaders. What more powerful fortress could exist than Salah El Din's Citadel (Al Kalla) overlooking Cairo. The Muslims from Egypt won al- Hijaz back from the Saud-Wahabi alliance when they sought to divide the Khilafah and so restored the unity of the Khilafah and of the Muslims.
Now it is time to take the leadership role. Now it is time for the Muslims of Egypt to lead the world back to Islam by re-establishing the Khilafah and seeking to unite the Muslims under one banner. Everyone knows that the Muslims should be united. Everyone knows that the shari'ah must be implemented. Everyone knows that Jihad should be fought, that Palestine and Iraq should be liberated. Everyone knows that the kuffar seek to dominate the resources. Everyone knows that the Arab and non-Arab rulers in the Islamic world care about their own positions more than any other matter. Everyone knows that things cannot continue as they are.
Now is the time for bravery and steadfastness upon the deen of Allah (Subhana wa Ta'ala). If you act now you will become the leaders of the world and those remembered by Allah (Subhana wa Ta'ala) in the best of company as you risked yourselves and your wealth to establish Islam in the land. Why is everyone afraid? Isn't the life of the hereafter better and more worthy than the life of this world? ....
The Khilafah is the solution. Do not believe the lie that you are taught in school that there were only four Khulafah. .... Abu Hazim said: "... There will be Khulafa'a and they will number many .... "
Oh Muslim youth of the great land of Egypt. Organise yourselves, prepare yourselves and rise up all together in a wave from Cairo, Alexandria, Port Said, Luxor, Aswan and 6th October. If it is one person, Mubarak will remove him and he will never come back but all together, they cannot stop you. Oh Muslim soldiers and the leaders of those soldiers! Can you see the current policies leading towards success? Do you think Mubarak or his sons will bring success to Islam and to Egypt or just to themselves? You are the sons of Saif ul Din Al Quts. Will you lead your people and the people of the world to victory or oppose them to defend the current regime? The Khilafah is the objective. Establish the Khilafah in Egypt ...
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/10/2004 11:23:58 PM ||
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#1
Sudan I can see but I don't think we will be invading Egypt soon.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/11/2004 4:30 Comments ||
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#3
Shhâ¦donât tell the major media that the Jihadiâs acknowledge that we have âcaptured Iraqâ. They are still mired in the idea that we are mired in a quagmire there
Posted by: B ||
08/11/2004 13:52 Comments ||
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An old article (19.APR.03) which didn't show up in a Rantburg search. Just more evidence of how sick and twisted Uday was and why the war to remove these bastards was justified. Edited for brevity.
...TIME found what may be the first tangible evidence pointing to torture in Uday's own backyard, the administrative compound of the Iraqi national Olympic committee in central Baghdad. Hidden in a pile of dead leaves, not 20 yards from the building housing the Iraqi Football Association, was that must-have appliance of every medieval dungeon: an iron maiden. Around 7 feet tall, three feet across and deep enough to house a grown man, the sarcophagus-shaped device is essentially a large, metal closet with long spikes on the inside door that closes to impale its victim. Its name derives from its mummy shape and the beatific woman's face depicted on its headpiece. The one found in Baghdad was clearly worn from use, its nails having lost some of their sharpness. It lay on its side within view of Uday's first-floor offices in the soccer association. Ironically, the torture device was brought to TIME's attention by a group of looters who had been stripping the compound of anything of value. They had left behind the iron maiden, believing it to be worthless. The iron maiden's spikes are located to pierce the victim's body but avoid major organs, leaving the victim to suffer as long as possible before dying.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/10/2004 7:39:57 PM ||
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#1
So what did AI and HRW have to say about this? Anything?
#2
We should build a statue of the soldier that put the bullet into Udays skull. He (or she) is a hero. The "war" was worth it just to send this sicko deep into the depths of Hell where he belongs.
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 JERUSALEM: Israel systematically discriminates against Palestinian vehicles on West Bank roads, creating a policy that has "many similarities" to the former apartheid regime in South Africa, an Israeli human rights group charged Monday. A report published by the B'tselem group said Israel bans or strictly controls Palestinian vehicles on more than 700 kilometers (430 miles) of West Bank roads, many of them major thoroughfares. B'tselem said Palestinian vehicles were banned from 120 kilometres of West Bank roads, needed special permits on 245 kilometers (156 miles), and were discouraged by the application of selective traffic ticketing policies and other discriminatory measures from traveling on an additional 365 kilometres. This seemed so believable until I reached the article's end without seeing the words, "car bomb," "bomb vest" or "terrorist attack." Who are these "HR" nuckfuggets and do they actually believe this sort of horsesh!t? Until all Palestinians renounce terrorism, they should be subjected to cavity searches every ten f&%king feet.
#1
You got it, Zenster. Israelis systematically discriminate against Paleo vehicles because Paleo vehicles go BOOM at a Paleo/Israeli ratio in the order of 100,000:1. Makes sense to me. Israel is plagued with a suicidal LLL, too, it seems.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/10/2004 18:31 Comments ||
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#2
I'm so sorry, I take it all back. I was clearly mistaken about this. That last line should have read "deep cavity searches."
#7
inadvertant...I just reminded you, no harm, no foul
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 22:13 Comments ||
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#8
This article came from the Pakistan Daily Times. You didn't seriously expect anything remotely resembling balanced and truthful reporting??? And B'tselem are suicidal idiots who think if they can just shout the LLL party line loud enough, it'l be forgiven that they're Jews.
#9
I realize the source, but the unreality of this was just a little much, trailing wife. In light of how the Palestinians revere Hitler and seek a similar modern day Holocaust, how is it that a group like B'tselem can be so insanely blind? It goes beyond all reason.
#10
More than a little much, Zenster. I don't understand B'tselem even less than I don't understand the Kumbaya-ers over here. I guess some people are congenitally incapable of thinking, which is why they think feeling is a legitimate substitute.
An explosion in a house situated in the slums of the city on Monday evening claimed lives of three children. The explosion was so powerful that the victims aged between 4 and 14 years died before any medical aid could be provided to them. The explosion took place in the house of Hameed, who earns his living by goods transportation at the local fruit and vegetable market through his donkey-driven cart, situated in Haq Town near the Multan Cricket Stadium on Vehari Road. Mr Hameed told Dawn that his 14-year-old son Khalil also operated a donkey-driven cart. On Monday after doing his work, Khalil returned home with a ball-like device and started playing with his sisters Yasmeen (6) and Nooraan (4) in a room. He said that after some time he heard a blast in the room where the three children were playing. When he and other members of his family rushed to the room the children were already dead. He said he had eight children with Khalil being the eldest.
District police officer Hamid Mukhtar Gondal rushed to the spot along with a bomb disposal squad. Later talking to Dawn, he said initially the explosive experts had declared the incident an outcome of what he used the term "marriage bomb". He said unfortunately the people had started using highly explosive material to express joy over marriage ceremonies. He opined that any marriage party passed through the area might have left the bomb behind which incidentally was taken up by Khalil. The DPO said post-mortem on the body of deceased Khalil was being conducted to ascertain the exact nature of the explosive material.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/10/2004 4:07:32 PM ||
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...explosive experts had declared the incident an outcome of what he used the term "marriage bomb".He said unfortunately the people had started using highly explosive material to express joy over marriage ceremonies.
"Marriage bombs", "work accidents". Not to force our cultural morays down your throat, but do yourself a favor and stay the fuck away from shit that blows up, okay?
Actual Article includes pics and a video.
NEW YORK — U.S. soldiers have been waiting for a long time for weapons to replace current ones that rely on Vietnam-era technology. And the new weapons are right around the corner.
One of these weapons is the XM-8 (search), a rifle with chameleon-like qualities that allows soldiers to interchange parts, outfitting it for urban warfare or long-range sniping. Military and civilian weapons experts are still working out the kinks in the XM-8, which will replace the M-16.
"The ability to reconfigure the weapon to the mission was very, very important. ... It grew out of soldiers telling us they need these kinds of capabilities," said Col. Michael J. Smith, project manager for Soldier Weapons.
The XM-8 is designed to be lighter and more user-friendly than current weapons. It is part of a new family of weapons, including machine-gun type weapons like the XM-307 and XM-312 that are lethal at more than a mile away.
In addition to being lighter, the new technology in the XM-8 makes hitting targets extremely easy. The rifle could be in soldiers' hands as early as next summer.
#2
Given the theaters we've been fighting in so far, it would be helpful to 'reconfigure' them to fire AK-47 rounds. Apparently they grow on trees over yonder.
#4
I guess we're outsourcing these things before they even get a chance to be manufactured in the US :
The U.S. Army has ordered 200 experimental XM-8 5.56mm assault rifles (shown below in a concept drawing) from German firm Heckler-Koch. The XM-8 is derived from the hugely successful Heckler-Koch G36 assault rifle ...
#6
saw it too on FOX - my new fave channel runs 6 hours a day here lol, yeah nice machine in my opinion (is it a machine), all it needs it a drinks holder and it'd do everything.looks the way to go - remember all the bitching about stryker - the b-2 the FA-18E (well all models) they all did well plus thousands of others (just a few examples there) that were panned by the critics before they even entered service
personally i think we should by, well mmake some of the 'Sturmtiger' artillary tanks similar but better then the WW2 german design, basically a big building destroyer - imagine it in Najaf - i am :)
Posted by: Shep UK ||
08/10/2004 16:49 Comments ||
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#7
This new rifle looks an awful lot like the M41A rifle. ;o)
#8
The XM8 will be manugfactured in Columbus Georgia. If the Army wants to field some units next year, then it will be 5.56mm. If enough 5.56 units get into the field, then I don't see them changing to 6.8mm, sweet as it may be. I do hope the XM8 can use the G36 style see through plastic magazines.
BTW, the G36 mechanism is based on the AR18, so think of it as comming back home.
Posted by: ed ||
08/10/2004 17:24 Comments ||
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#9
If they stick with 5.56mm, they need to rethink their operating roles and manufacture something that's designed to knockdown (and stay down) at <100m ranges.
#10
Ed: globalsecurity.org says that it uses 10- and 30-round "semi-transparent" magazines, as well as a 100-round drum. Based on the picture, it looks like it'd be pretty easy to see how many rounds are left (if you lose count, that is...).
#12
uh . . . the M16/AR15 has interchangeble parts too. On mine, I just pop two pins and swap out the upper receiver and it becomes a .50 cal fire breather in under 60 seconds (there are uppers available in many calibers and barrel lengths). I can mount an endless array of scopes, night vision and lights on the upper and forward rails.
#14
This is actually based a lot on the old G-11 from HK. I heard 6.8 and 7mm both mentioned as rounds. I wish they had goetten the "caseless" from the G11 as well -the bolt on that rifle was mazing - allowed a cyclic rate of 2000 rounds/min - meaning your 3 round burst would go in 0.09 of a second - not enough time for muzzle climb and recoil to skew it off target. Also held more ammo internally due to no casing =- lighter, and allowed for more round because the ammo was "square" in the back instead of round brass. Also due to no need to extract, the bolt cycle as faster, and no brass meand the bolt seal was tighter (meaning higher muzzle velocity, flatter firing).
I bet a lot of that found its way into the XM8 - at least I hope so.
#16
There's also a "6.5mm Grendel" round being investigated, in addition to the others. You can read about it at: http://www.65grendel.com. If I were making the choice, I'd prefer the 6.5 to the 6.8, but I'd vastly prefer the 6.8 to the 5.56.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
08/10/2004 21:37 Comments ||
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#17
Here's what I know. Apparently the weapon was developed with a 6.8mm conversion in mind, but that unleashes all the impending contracts for the new caliber. Moreover, I remember this little kerfuffle about the "APLP" bullet (5.56mm), supposedly a super-manstopper, that threatened the whole 6.8mm deal, which SOCOM reportedly has latched onto. However, according to SOF (?), it will eventually caliber-convert to 7.62x39mm AND 5.45x39mm, and the lower magazine well will convert to allow use of AKM or AK-74 magazines.
How does that sound?
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
08/10/2004 23:16 Comments ||
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#18
I've been following the xm8 story over at murdoc online; no matter what's finally adopted, 6,8mm or 5,56, it is still sad and weird in some way to see an end to the m16 rifle, the rifle that has symbolized the US grunt, the most successful western assault rifle, the most instantly recognisable design along with the ak.
#20
John Muhammad was also operating under much more favorable conditions than the average soldier, or even the average sniper, on the battlefield: he could pick a target, take his time, worry about shot placement, and leave, all without having to deal with return fire or other soldiers.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
09/01/2004 21:23 Comments ||
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A few months from now, Peter Anthony Schlesinger hopes to zap a laser beam at a couple of chickens or other animals in a cage a few dozen yards away. If all goes as planned, the chickens will be frozen in mid-cluck, their leg and wing muscles paralyzed by an electrical charge created by the beam, even as their heart and lungs function normally. Among those most interested in the outcome will be officials at the Pentagon, who helped fund Schlesinger's work and are looking at this type of device to do a lot more than just zap the cluck out of a chicken. I'll take two
#2
The article's title is misleading. I posted this same piece several days ago. A laser is used to pump a microwave source whose directed energy is used to interfere with neural signaling, thereby paralysing a combatant. Used in a wider broadcast pattern and different frequency, the sensation of extreme heat on the epidermis is available as well. Both of these represent excellent crowd control methods.
I look forward to a time when our soldiers arrive at the field of battle with weapons so effective and horrible that a majority of foes will flee in terror before firing a single shot. I want America's enemies to die in such a gruesome fashion that pure fear will stop them from attacking us. However much I detest inhumanity, I refuse to let America fall victim to a bunch of psychopathic brutes who seek to impose theocracy upon this world. Kill them fast or kill them slow, whatever kills them all.
#4
No problem, 2%. Technology is what won the Cold War and is what will help America defeat jihadist terrorism. It's always good to keep everyone informed about updates to America's arsenal.
#5
If all goes as planned, the chickens will be frozen in mid-cluck, their leg and wing muscles paralyzed by an electrical charge created by the beam, even as their heart and lungs function normally.
I can think of a couple of "chickens" that I would love to see this used on.
#6
The article is not very clear, but several mechanisms are discussed. The one by HSV appears to be a technique that was first reported several years ago. An ultraviolet laser ionizes the air in the path of the beam, forming a conducting path for a high voltage charge like that put out by a Taser.
#7
An ultraviolet laser ionizes the air in the path of the beam
This was one of the principal methods investigated for ground based anti-satellite DEWs. Tunneling through the atmosphere proved to be a major obstacle in delivering collimated wattage to an orbital target.
Iraqi Interior Minister Falah al-Nakib said Monday he is ready to arrest radical Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr if a judicial order is issued. Al-Nakib was quoted by Saudi daily al-Sharq al-Awsat as saying there currently is no official arrest warrant against Sadr, whose followers in al-Mehdi Army have been battling U.S.-backed Iraqi forces in the holy city of Najaf for the past five days. "Until now I have not been informed of any official warrant to arrest Moqtada Sadr ... This matter is in the hands of the Iraqi judicial authorities, and once it comes to us at the ministry we will not procrastinate in implementing the warrant," al-Nakib told the paper which is monitored in Beirut. He said the Iraqi authorities will not negotiate with Sadr before he disbands his militia. There is no plan to start dialogue with Sadr at present, not before the USMC he dissolves his militia anyway, al-Nakib said.
#3
This will be the test if the Iraqi government will impliment its control or not. Tater is directly confronting the authority of the new government. If he is negotiated with or is allowed the freedom to play his dirty little game, then the new govt. will get nowhere. They have to systematically clean out each mess, like Tater, Najaf, Fallujah, etc or they will have failed.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/10/2004 16:10 Comments ||
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...A She'at taxi driver told me, " Why are we doing this!? Why among all religions we commit such horrible crimes?? If this is Islam then s**t on it and on Mahdi himself, we don't want this!...
Posted by: mhw ||
08/10/2004 8:39:06 AM ||
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#1
I wouldn't say Moslems against Islam so much as the first rumblings of the long awaited Islamic Reformation.
Something must change to seperate the unapproving masses of Muslims from the psychos that use Allah's name for vile deeds. That something must come from the Muslims themselves or they will go down with the violent ones in time.
I think they need the reverse of the Protestant Reformation against the central authority of the Pope and the Catholic Church. Islam needs some central authority so that every tom, dick, or Sadr can't claim divine backing for their misdeeds.
It would be best if such a thing came out of Saudi Arabia but that's unlikely to happen until we have one, or possibly two, bloody revolutions there. I'm thinking the Turks should take up the ball, they should turn Hagia Sophia back into a Mosque and use it as a sort of St Peters for pronouncements and such. They should get the various Clerics and Mullahs in Turkey to meet on occasion so that the pronouncements come as one voice, at one time, and with force, and not have different announcements from different fellows.
Yeah as a non-Muslim I probably won't like all of those announcements but I have faith that Sufism is superior to Wahhabism in the court of ideals and is far more compatible with Democracy and I think it will be a stabalizing thing.
Forgive me for misspellings or whatever. Its early.
#2
yank
well other people have had this idea but I can't see how it could work in practice; also, I think the Turkish military would be very, very, very unlikely to allow a centralized Islamic authority to operate out of Istanbul.
#3
Historically the dominant forces in international islam, with the power to do what Yank is thinking of, have been major Islamic Universities. The most notable one, that COULD do what Yank wants, is Al Azhar in Cairo. I sincerely hope that the best people we've got are working VERY quietlyy to push Al Ahzar subtly in an anti-wahabi direction. I dont really follow Al ahzar closely, I must admit.
#4
Funny. These terrorist, can wait 100's of years to win thier battle, so what do they do? Start wars that kill more Muslim's then any other religion. Which turns even Muslims against them. Until these idiots started thier war, Islam was the fastest growing religion in the world. It would of eventually won a good part of the world. But not now.
#5
I wonder if an Islamic Martin Luther would be allowed to live long enough to reform Islam. The islamo-facists are almost as hard on each other as they are on kufr.
Posted by: Formerly Dan ||
08/10/2004 11:21 Comments ||
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#6
Plain - theyre not looking for the victory if Islam, but of their variety of Islam. What good is the conversion of millions of africans to Islam, or muslim pop growth, if the majority of muslims in muslim countries are accepting as normal life under more or less secular states like Egypt and Algeria and Indonesia, which they see as a heresy fatal to "true" Islam.
#7
You may be right Liberal. You'd hope that the secular Muslims would be more vocal in thier contempt for a group who is just making thier lives worse. At least Muslim's here.
#8
Yank, Hagia Sophia is a mosque, converted when the Moslems conquered Constantinople. It was originally built (I think by Constantine) as an Orthodox Church.
That doesn't effect your point, though. On the other hand, Judaism has survived without any central authority; but we have records of long correspondence exchanges between rabbis thousands of miles apart, as they argued questions posed by the laity. I think that's one of the problems with Islam: each mullah, ayatollah, etc. heads his own little kingdom, with very little reference to what is going on -- religiously -- elsewhere in the Ummah.
#9
The Hagia Sophia was built on the orders of Justinian, some two centuries after Constantine. And the Turks are doing pretty well with their secular state, even under an Islamist PM. I seem to remember an Iranian taxi driver who observed that deeply religious people need strongly secular governments, pointing to the Americans as an example.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
08/10/2004 13:37 Comments ||
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#10
tw - actually, IIUC there IS communication between different Sunni muslim authorities, analogous to what happens in traditional Judaism - with Al Ahzar playing the role of the greatest Yeshivas. (shia in this so far from the mainstream, it might be analogous to Karaite Judaism) I think the problems with communication in Islam ( as compared to Judaism) include the vast scope of Sunni Islam, the lower overall levels of literacy and cultural development, and the way that different local authorities are tied up with different governments. In particular the way Wahabi Islam got tied up with the Saudi state.
Imagine if there were 30 or 40 jewish states, mainly inhabited by illiterate and backward jews. Now imagine that in one of the most backward a family had attained power by alliance with followers of a Meir Kahane like figure, with his harsh attitudes towards both non-Jews and other Jews, and his willingness to defy other Orthodox authorities on certain questions. Now imagine said state became wealthy due to oil, and spread the Kahanist vision around the world, in a kind of supercharged, nasty version of Chabad, funding shuls and JCC's and Yeshivas, and infiltrating Kahanist thought into mainstream Orthodox institutions. Now imagine that some of the Kahanists decided that mainstream Kahanism was too moderate, and started blowing up building, etc, etc.
Imagine that some Orthodox rabbis feared physical attack by the extreme kahanists, all wanted to maintain good relations with the wealthy mainstream kahanist state, and all feared disunity in Orthodox Judaism. I suspect it would be difficult for a YU or a Lakewood, let alone a JTS, to solve the situation.
"Hagia Sophia served as a mosque during the early years of the Turkish Republic, then declared a national monument and converted into a museum by the order of Atatuk on 24 October 1934."
#12
islam has already had its reformation--its called wahabbism--and was a response to the loose living and morals permitted under the turkish caliphate and the mass of sufi oriented islam with its saints and whatnot--what islam needs is an ENLIGHTENMENT which is using the power of reason and science to reinterpret religious dogma--that's what happened in the west--the reformation led to countless religious wars until the treaty of westphalia in 1648--now the gates of reason [ijtihad] have been closed in islam since the 11th century-viz al-ghazali and the previous quashing of the muatazilites--and so the strict litralists and the four jucdicial schools comprise this fuckwit ideology--that's why islam sucks--mass movements are ideogenerated--by new ideas--and reinterpretation in light of new facts--when you have the perfect word of a scary tribal god handed down by his final prophet spoken in arabic telling you that you are the master religion--well-who needs to change--that's why you have to be persuaded at the barrel of an m16 and some jdams--works for me
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
08/10/2004 15:08 Comments ||
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#13
I think they need the reverse of the Protestant Reformation against the central authority of the Pope and the Catholic Church. Islam needs some central authority so that every tom, dick, or Sadr can't claim divine backing for their misdeeds.
yank, this is the one single problem with Islam. It is specifically decentralized and subject to nearly individual interpretation. An insistence upon not worshiping living or dead individuals is a central foundation and partial cause of the Sunni Shi'ia split, due to Shi'ite reverence of Imam Ali. It is unlikely that Islam will ever have a central authority.
This is why we have wingnuts like bin Laden trotting around declaring global jihad. It is also part of why so little cross-criticism happens within Islam. All of this bodes particularly ill for any reformation. There is no equivalent to a "Pope" or any form of excommunication. An absence of central authority or means of expulsion all serve to engender a plethora of splinter groups and little recourse against fanaticism.
For this reason, it is incumbent upon Muslims as individuals to both reject violent jihad and begin ejecting jihadists from their ranks. Unfortunately, the eschewal of any internal criticism so as to appear a united front works precisely against reform.
This may well result in the annihilation of all Islam unless its individual adherents purchase a clue and save their faith mosque by mosque. So little of such reform has manifested to date, that I hold little hope for such a thing. It is more likely that a series of Islam's unfettered fanatics will lay their hands on some Iranian atom bombs and spark the step-by-step obliteration of all Muslim countries.
This is the rhinocerous in Islam's living room and so few Muslims are bothering to take notice of it that a really bright flash of heat figures rather prominently in their future.
#14
for what its worth, my hypothesis is that when there exists a mass movement of people leaving Islam, then and only then, will Islam have a chance to reform itself
#16
mhw, the only "mass movement of people leaving Islam" that is all likely to happen any time soon involves a strong and very hot updraft carrying their ashes them skyward. Cynical? Yes, but there is simply no other indication that anything short of nuclear war is going to make Islam see the error of its ways.
#17
The problem is that the Islam as it is practiced is definitely forcused toward establishment of the Imamas, not in unity of faith.
Much like US fundamentalism, the very seperation dives the elements on the fringes to further extremes in an attempt to be "holier" than the others - and misinterpretations and outright heresies are not corrected by either the central Church (liek ti is with Catholicism) or the mass of worshipers (mainstream protestantism).
Fundamentalism of any stripe tends to get loonier and loonier until it gets to where its unsupportable. Witness the stuff going on now in the ME with the boomers, and the problems we had here in the US with the snipers against the abortion clinics.
The difference in degrees is due to the moderating influnce our culture of "all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator win inalienable rights" - problem is there is no similar moderation in a master-slave (bascially feusdalism with peasants and rulers) cultures like those of the middle east - so their fundamentalists tend to be wilder and more of them.
I grant that it seems a long shot at this point but there are ex Muslims, there are non violent Islam like sects that are attracting a long of other Muslims (the Admiyaddi in Britain and India), there is scholarly research which is demolishing the 'Koran is Unchanged from 600' belief, there are a few other things happening. Don't give up completely.
#19
the weakness of Islam is shown by the vehement punishment ascribed for those who stray. If this religion was so strong and vibrant they wouldn't have to enslave infidels, force conversions, subjugate women and kill the stray flock. Surely a religion dominated by weak males concerned about their numerous failings as people and a culture, women beaten into submission and chattel. F*&k em! Now I'm gettin riled up, dammit!
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/10/2004 21:46 Comments ||
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#20
Don't give up completely.
mhw, I'm sure you've already seen the brickbats delivered to me here at Rantburg over my assertion that there really are moderate Muslims in this world. The thundering silence coming out of Islam regarding terrorism is nothing short of damning. I am losing all patience with how our world is currently forced to divert billions, if not trillions, of dollars into fighting this scourge instead of battling famine, genocide and illiteracy.
At some point it will no longer be worth lavishing these immense resources on such an intractable problem. Some houses become so infested with vermin that they simply must be demolished. Such is the case with Islam. It is rapidly approaching the point where some inexpensive nuclear weapons will provide an expedient solution to an otherwise insoluable problem. I do not relish such a thing, but I'll be triple d@mned in he|| if I'm going to sit around and watch some fanatics derail centuries of progress to please their theocratic leanings. After the first nuclear terrorist attack, I will cheerfully advocate sterilizing some Middle Eastern countries as a brief but vivid object lesson for all Islamists. I doubt I shall be alone in doing so.
#21
Thanks for all the corrections, guys. I come here to learn, and y'all have broadened my thinking tremendously.
LH, I understand the analogy, but you know its completely unthinkable -- thanks be to God!
Zenster, I pray that your scenario never comes to pass...in the darkest nights I fear that it will. On the other hand, I doubt we would have to repeat the lesson more than twice.
#22
Zenster, I pray that your scenario never comes to pass...in the darkest nights I fear that it will. On the other hand, I doubt we would have to repeat the lesson more than twice.
trailing wife, have you read the Belmont Club article titled "The Three Conjectures?" It makes a substantial and credible case that even a single nuclear terrorist attack will result in a cascade of total obliteration for all Islamic countries. I find little to argue with in the piece and hope that Muslims everywhere get a chance to read it. Islam is playing with matches in a powder magazine. It is simply incomprehensible how Islam completely ignores the wolf at their door. Jihadist fanatics threaten to bring total ruination upon their faith and all most Muslims do is sit back and cheer them on after each atrocity. After a while, it becomes just plain disgusting. One single terrorist nuclear bomb will likely be all it takes to wipe Islam from the face of this entire earth.
The author is Ronald Sandee, a senior counter-terrorism analyst for the Dutch Ministry of Defense who is not speaking on behalf of the Dutch government. I was present when he spoke and helped to do some of the research that went into the broader presentation on Sudan in general post-9/11 and Darfur in particular and I hope that my fellow Rantburgers will find it useful. Heavily EFL.
After the US led coalition attacked and defeated the Taliban regime and al-Qa'ida forces in Afghanistan at the end of 2001, the 'solid base' that AQ had there was gone. A part of the AQ leadership and a certain number of fighters remained in the remote tribal areas of Pakistan and in the eastern part of Afghanistan. Others traveled (with their families) through Pakistan and through Iran to return to their home countries. Another part stayed in Pakistan. A large group went to Yemen. What was remarkable was that many of the students within AQ were asked by their teachers to come with them to Mauritania (most of the members of AQ's Religious Committee are Mauritanian Ulema). Others ended up in the Sudan. The Mauritanian contingent, of course, was involved in the attempted coup there in 2003.
Also soon after 9/11 and the start of the campaign to oust the Taliban in Afghanistan, information arose that large quantities of gold and gemstones were transferred from Afghanistan through Pakistan, Iran, and the UAE to the Sudan. This gold and gemstones belonged to the Taliban and AQ and were brought by ship and plane to the Sudan to be put in safe places. Probably, they were deposited in Islamic banks in Khartoum.
Sudan, recall, had made a surprising turnaround when we threw the Talibs out of Afghanistan, since Bashir was smart enough to have visions of the same sort of operation being carried out in his country. Times passes, perceptions dull, the U.S. is going through its incomprehensible domestic political convolutions, and the aftermath of Afghanistan and Iraq look enough like what the Russers went through in Afghanistan to raise the belief that the turbans can look forward to some sort of victory in the long run. The butter's on the other side of the slice now...
By now we can say that Sudan has again assumed a role as one of the training centers for AQ and Mujahedin fighters. Like in the first half of the 1990s Sudan contains an ample number of training camps where Muslim extremists and jihadists are taught the techniques of guerilla warfare. They come from Europe, Central-Asia, the Middle Eastern countries, and Sub-Sahara Africa. After being trained they are facilitated by an organization that is still in place and is able to deliver high quality false documents, means of communication and organize travel arrangements. The newly trained fighters turn up in southern Sahara countries, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq, where they fight against coalition forces. We also see Sudanese who were trained in (PDF) camps turning up at the border with Israel. It is interesting to note that during the latest prisoner swap between Israel and Hizballah, in January 2004, three Sudanese citizens were included.
So it looks like Omar's back in the business. I think we pretty much guessed that by now, though. He's just not sticking his head up too far yet...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/10/2004 1:24:57 AM ||
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In view of the above, these warnings, in all probability, need to be taken seriously. A Western intervention, though seen within the West as based purely on a humanitarian imperative, will easily be seen as an attack on a Muslim nation and draw in Islamic fighters like a magnet, as had happened in Iraq. It might be the start for a new round of fighting between the Western forces and Muslim radicals.
So?! Gosh, we wouldn't want to have a war between Muslim Murderers and the West now would we? Bring 'em on mutherfu@ker. Let's get this over with. If his analisys is correct, I think Sudan needs to be flattened. Let's pound the allah out of that sh!thole.
#2
Some say "draw in Islamic fighters like a magnet," but I say "draw in Islamic fighters like a Roach Motel."
Posted by: Capt America ||
08/10/2004 10:12 Comments ||
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#3
this would seem to conflict with reports im sure ive seen that Turabi supported the Darfur rebels. Perhaps he did so precisely with the hope that foreign intervention would radicalize the Khartoum leadership, and create an opening for him? Or perhaps that was disinfo of some kind.
I would be reluctant to publicize this to heavily. at the moment the euros see this (as we do) as essentially a humanitarian/genocide issue (putting aside for now quibbles about the definition of genocide vs ethnic cleansing) on that basis they have supported us in the UNSC, and, IMO, are working themselves up to supporting military intervention. Any hint that Washington sees this as another front in the WOT could lead them to shrink away. Nonetheless it would be good to have other nation, not those currently part of the coalition of the willing, fighting as "flypaper".
#4
It doesn't necessarily conflict with the reports, LH. Turabi's side was in competition with Bashir and his group. It may be an rebellion that got away from Turabi's grasp, so he turned against them. That might explain his side cooperating with the present government. Sudanese politics is indeed complicated.
#5
LH, I don't think that we can let the camps stand if they are for the training of jihadis. I was for intervention of one sort or another based purely on the humanitarian crisis. Jihadi camps means that we have a strong national interest in deverminating their garbage dump. If the Dutch know that AQ is in the Sudan in force than certainly the EU does as well and Germany and France will have no part of the operation anyway.
We have assets in theatre. The UK and Australia are willing to take part or possibly lead. How can we not go?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 22:03 Comments ||
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Secretary General of the Muslim World League Dr. Abdalla bin Abdul-Muhsin Al-Turky said that the league would contribute, through its concerned commissions, to the efforts made by the government to tackle the situation in Darfur. In a statement to SUNA, Dr. Al-Turky added that the league's contributions include arms and ammunition food, medicine, drilling water wells and preparing accommodations for the displaced persons. He, further, explained that the Islamic Relief Authority, an affiliate to the league, works to intensify its programmes aiming at providing humanitarian assistance to all the citizens in Darfur. Dr. Al-Turky said that the visit of the league delegation to Sudan aims at knowing the reality of the problem, its dimensions, its reasons and prospects of the Sudanese parties toward its resolution. He called on all the Islamic States to support Sudan and the efforts being made to find a settlement for the crisis.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/10/2004 7:28:13 AM ||
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#1
Dr. Al-Turky said that the visit of the league delegation to Sudan aims at knowing the reality of the problem, its dimensions, its reasons and prospects of the Sudanese parties toward its resolution. He called on all the Islamic States to support Sudan and the efforts being made to find a settlement for the crisis.
He might as well have said, "a final settlement of the Darfur problem".
#4
Now CF, you know that the non-Arab Muslix isn't going to be doing anything of the kind. They'll get their world view delivered to them pre-digested on Friday. You're meddling in the internal affairs of the World Of Islam - and if you don't cease and desist, I will sic some mullahs on ya - and these are Fatwa-totin' tight-turban asshats... they might drool a bit, but don't let that fool ya - yer in big trouble if you keep it up, insha'allah.
;-)
#6
Dr. Al-Turky added that the league's contributions include arms and ammunition food, medicine, drilling water wells and preparing accommodations for the displaced persons.
Don't forget to hand out the Korans; the black Sudanese no doubt will want some kind of religious explanation on why Allah thinks it's ok to wipe out black Muslims.
#9
LOL! I was just worried about the waste of such talent..... as it were.... you know, good books, toast, warm milk you'll live an extra 3 maybe 9 months. :)
#10
Ship - Lol - I appreciate your concern! Actually, I'm thinking about picking up something I was doing as a pre-teen - illegally - and that's getting my Pilot's license. I had a friend who's father was a commercial pilot & instructor for a major US carrier - and he had his own private field and several planes. Just thinking about it, right now - too damned hot out there! Mebbe in the fall.
#13
By now we can say that Sudan has again assumed a role as one of the training centers for AQ and Mujahedin fighters. Like in the first half of the 1990s Sudan contains an ample number of training camps where Muslim extremists and jihadists are taught the techniques of guerilla warfare. ...
Dan Darling's excerpt from an AI lecture by Ronald Sandee, a senior counter-terrorism analyst for the Dutch Ministry of Defense, gives a pretty good idea on why the usual suspect are lining up behind the Sudanese regime.
Based on what we are now finding ou with regard to Charles Taylor, I am coming to believe that almost anywhere you find tyranny (with the exception of the PRC), you will find AQ, a surrogate or at least some nuts converting to Islam and talking jihad. This is every bit as widespread as Marxism was until the 80's.
First Vice President, Ali Osman Mohammed Taha, affirmed that justice and development are the key factors for solving the issue of Darfur and other areas of Sudan. Addressing a mass rally Monday in Bara town, Taha affirmed that Sudan would never allow infringement of the national unity, faith and identity of the Sudanese people by exploiting the crisis of Darfur. Taha revealed that President Al-Bashir will sign an agreement on funding the road of Bara-Hamrat Al-Shiekh-Omdurman soon, saying that studies on the roads have been completed. The First Vice President commended the steadfastness of the people of North Kordofan State, instructing the concerned authorities to give much concern to the services in the State. Meanwhile, the First Vice President has inaugurated an expansion of Al-Obeid Electricity Station that increases production with 64 Megawatts at the cost of 7 million USD as external component and 70 million Sudanese Dinars as a local component.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/10/2004 7:18:28 AM ||
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"First Vice President, Ali Osman Mohammed Taha, affirmed that justice and development are the key factors for solving the issue of Darfur and other areas of Sudan." And I'm sure he'll ensure justice and development after they've killed all of the blacks in those areas.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 02:45 ||
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"The coalition recognizes that its forces are guests in Afghanistan," Maj. Scott Nelson said.
Let's just not forget how we got to Afghanistan and why we needed to come.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 2:47 Comments ||
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#2
9-11-2001 keeps getting further and further into the past...
Posted by: Fred ||
08/10/2004 11:05 Comments ||
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#3
Some of the biggest complaints have come from Special Forces in the area. After spending months getting friendly with the locals, "regular Army" arrive in the area for some reason and screw things up--not being able to tell the good guys from the bad guys--and pissing of the "friendlies."
It's an ongoing problem, and not easy to resolve.
If nothing else, it is *good* news. In effect, he is telling his regulars to tone it down, because they don't *need* to be so aggressive. In other words, bad guys are getting harder to find, so be nice--the Afghans you meet are probably not going to be a problem.
#4
Anonymoose, I am agreeble to a small footprint and paying cognizance to local sensitivites as long as AQ and Taliban corpses continue to be stacked like cordwood.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 16:16 Comments ||
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#5
Let's just not forget how we got to Afghanistan and why we needed to come.
SH, this remains the central issue and I have to wonder how many Afghanis actually understand this part of the equation. It's all well and fine that the locals are no longer so hostile, but if that changes one little bit then the hammer should come back down hard.
Mauritania arrested 27 soldiers Monday suspected of involvement in a coup plot to topple the government of President Maaouya Ould Taya, sources from Nouakchott said. The sources said the 27 include three major plotters. One of the three, a source said, is a cousin of the mastermind behind a coup attempt in June 2003, while another is a former army commander ousted a month ago. The soldiers allegedly planned to seize the army chiefs who were scheduled to attend a meeting at the headquarters of the general staff Monday morning, before taking by storm the presidential office. The sources said the suspects might get involved in the plot because of discontentment over delayed trial of the soldiers detained for the June 2003 coup attempt. The soldiers launched an abortive coup on June 8, 2003, which was put down after a firefight that claimed 15 lives and left 68 wounded. About 120 soldiers linked to the failed coup are still kept in prison, waiting for trial.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/10/2004 2:02:21 AM ||
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The EU said yesterday there was widespread violence in the Darfur region of Sudan but the killings were not genocidal, a potentially crucial distinction which underlined its absolute unwillingness reluctance to intervene. "We are not in the situation of genocide there," Pieter Feith, an adviser to the EU's foreign policy chief, Javier Solana, said in Brussels after returning from a fact-finding visit to Sudan.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
"But it is clear there is widespread, silent and slow killing and village burning of a fairly large scale. There are considerable doubts as to the willingness of Sudan's government to assume its duty to protect its civilian population against attacks." He said in the absence of willingness to send a significant military force, the EU and others had little choice but to cooperate with Khartoum.
And that absence of willingness is something we can take as a given...
The announcement is bound to anger those impatient for stronger international pressure on Sudan. Last month the US House of Representatives voted by 422 votes to nil to describe Khartoum's actions as genocide, a conclusion shared by several analysts who say there is no other term for the systematic slaughter, rape and expulsions. But the White House, the African Union and groups such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have so far avoided using the g-word. At least 30,000 people are thought to have died and 1 million displaced in what the UN has called the world's worst humanitarian crisis.
"What's 30,000 deaders? A drop in the African bucket! And they're all colored guys. They don't feel pain like we do..."
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/10/2004 12:04:00 AM ||
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But the White House, the African Union and groups such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have so far avoided using the g-word.
And the White House, the African Union, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International can all pound genocidal sand up their collective @sses. It's genocide, pure and simple, just like the beginnings of the Holocaust. All denial is merely appeasement of the murderous b@stards causing this crime against humanity.
#3
I'm sure that the fact that they are not victims of genocide but only of "widespread, silent and slow killing" will be of great relief to the denizens of Dafur.
The job of EU policy chief was made for Javier Solana. I'm sure he was able to utter his remarks with a straight face.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 1:36 Comments ||
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#5
Lucky, I'd like to think that race is not a factor in this case, nor was it a factor in the Ivory Coast nor Rwanda, but the pattern is hard to mistake. I beleive that the EU likes to declare genocide retroactively - after there is no longer anything to be done. I wish that we would go ahead and demonostrate our unilateralism once again and declare genocide. We ould point out that the EU and UN are naked at the same time. Wouldn't want to ruffle feathers, though. Got to be careful not to be the first to declare genocide or else France and Germany will refuse to send troops.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/10/2004 2:54 Comments ||
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#7
Super Hose your last sentence is so right on. My Momma raised me to get upset by stuff like government sponsored murder of black people so it's hard to keep silent while is goes on. This time the US will be on record calling this a genocide (at least some folks.) Having a full plate as we do there is little we can do about it. The Beeb and the U.K. government made some noise and France magicly moved some forces to the border in Chad to "protect" refugees but it's way to little and they will never cross the border to defend a soul.
Solana's "widespread, silent and slow killing" shows him for the soul-less self serving political POS he is. What a total assclown.
#10
What do you expect the EU and the UN to do, based upon their record? Hell, they cannot clean up the mess in their backyard of the former Yugoslavia. They asked Slick Willie instead. While all these highly educated EUnics are debating whether the pattern and quantity of killing fits the definition of genocide, tens of thousands are dying at the hands of murderers. Bunch of morally bankrupt souls the EUnics are. Raises my boiler pressure if I do not watch it.
On another note, if we are going to save the world and ourselves, we better reassess our military AND especially our airlift and sealift capability. Rummy has been working on the military of the future, I am sure. I have a feeling, though, that our airlift capability is being stressed to hard and needs to be expanded.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/10/2004 16:36 Comments ||
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#11
Pay no attention to those helicopter gunships!!!
#15
Rummy has been working on the military of the future, I am sure. I have a feeling, though, that our airlift capability is being stressed to hard and needs to be expanded.
Well, all the crap about leasing Boeing jets didn't help .....
Posted by: anon too ||
08/10/2004 19:55 Comments ||
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#16
I hear ya a too... need about 96 more C-17s, buy, 'em dont play leasing games.
#17
Now see, Genocide is only committed by the US and UK against Jihadi's. So the EU and UN can't call it Genocide cause it's not us doing it. Besides, if they piss these guys off, they'll stop giving the UN delegates all their under the table money/drugs/children.
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