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2004-08-10 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by Dan Darling 2004-08-10 12:45:22 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Scary. What it would take to defeat this threat is scary too. A WWII scale effort. Limited counterinsurgency ops across the Islamic world MIGHT be all that is needed. ("Limited" here means hundreds of thousands of men, given the size of the territory involved.) But there is no guarantee, since such ops might spiral into larger wars like Vietnam. At that point we are talking about Corps, Armies, and Army Groups to bring about total defeat as in WWII. Millions of troops.

Posted by virginian 2004-08-10 09:44|| 2004-08-10 09:44|| Front Page Top

#2 Article: Few of the younger U.S. counter-intelligence agents remember that manpads literally brought down the Soviet empire.

Arnaud de Borchgrave is wrong on this, as he has been wrong on the War on Terror. The Soviet collapse in Afghanistan coincided with a collapse in its finances brought about by an arms buildup it couldn't afford. The Soviet Union's fall wasn't caused by withdrawal from Afghanistan - it merely coincided with it. The Soviet invasion occurred at the right time for the Afghans - if it had occurred in the 1950's, before decades of communism further weakened the Soviet Union's economy, Afghanistan would have become another Soviet Republic (the Soviet Union was also known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics).

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2004-08-10 10:01|| http://www.polipundit.com 2004-08-10 10:01|| Front Page Top

#3 we're doomed...doomed I tell ya!

He was on the board of half a dozen "charitable" Muslim foundations in the tri-state region, certified 75 Muslim chaplains for the U.S. Armed Forces, founded and once led the American Muslim Council (AMC), praised by the FBI Director Robert Mueller for its mainstream moderation.

The key word being WAS. Pray tell me, where is he now?

Muslims have now reached the point where they are fed up with the U.S., which lives in prosperity off our nationâs resources.

Hey, we'd like nothing better than to stop buying your oil. Keep raising the price and we'll have alternatives within a year.

Posted by B 2004-08-10 10:30|| 2004-08-10 10:30|| Front Page Top

#4 Article: Few of the younger U.S. counter-intelligence agents remember that manpads literally brought down the Soviet empire.

Another point that de Borchgrave has missed is this - if manpads can bring a country to its knees, why target the US and not say, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, which should have many more Islamist sympathizers who are willing to hide the perpetrators and provide logistical support? Why not target Russia, which has tens of millions of Muslims within its territory, and is routinely susceptible to large-scale terrorist attacks by Muslims, and has enough Muslim sympathizers to shelter these people? Moreover if manpads are so effective, why haven't terrorists been able to bring down a jet plane in Iraq or Afghanistan, where ordnance is plentiful and both jihadis and their sympathizers are plentiful? Why haven't the hundreds of guerrilla groups in Africa - armed with cheap and plentiful SA-7's - been able to bring down significant numbers of jetliners over decades, where there are no secure perimeters around the jungle airstrips that serve as airports in much of sub-Saharan Africa? The idea that portable SAM's are somehow this terrorist panacea is just so absurd, it confirms my assumptions about de Borchgrave - he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2004-08-10 10:32|| http://www.polipundit.com 2004-08-10 10:32|| Front Page Top

#5 Not sure exactly what to make of this article. It's almost incoherent, and I'm not sure if that reflects Borchgrave's writing or the fact that he's writing about incoherent people.

Zhang Fei is spot on about the SA-7s, and it makes me wonder if the problem with reporters like Borchgrave is that, devoid of any military skill or knowledge, they begin to just accept what their interview subjects tell them.

Note the oft-repeated anti-globalist charge now adopted by Islamists: America is living on the hog off of someone else's natural resources. Guess we must have forgotten to pay for all that oil over the years.

Also, the raw numbers of Islamists and their supporters that Borchgrave mentions look formidable, but a terrorist juggernaut pouring into the U.S. it does not make. A good operative in the U.S. must have some technical skills, be proficient in English, be disciplined, be subtle enough to not be immediately spotted as a loon, and, probably most difficult, be able to live here for long periods without getting sucked into the easy life. There's a reason we don't constantly have suicide boomers popping up in shopping malls (yet).

Finally, a point that I get tired of hearing: once George Bush goes away, the world will be happy with us. This ongoing conflict is not about George Bush. It started when he was still hitting the Friday night Happy Hour in Texas, and it'll be here when he's gone. In many respects it's like the conflict with communism: the two warring sides represent something absolutely contrary to the other's belief (i.e., free markets vs. command economies; individualism vs. collectivism; separation of church & state vs. Koranic law, etc.)

Posted by dreadnought 2004-08-10 14:07|| 2004-08-10 14:07|| Front Page Top

#6 dreadnought: Note the oft-repeated anti-globalist charge now adopted by Islamists: America is living on the hog off of someone else's natural resources. Guess we must have forgotten to pay for all that oil over the years.

These guys aren't even original - they're recycling Soviet propaganda. The reality, of course, is that we buy these things at market prices - i.e. cost + some profit for the producers. Oil - we buy from a cartel that sells it for a huge profit over extraction cost - for the Saudis, a 90% net profit at the pump. I wish we could sell our products at a 90% profit, too, but that's not in the cards.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2004-08-10 14:58|| http://www.polipundit.com]">[http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-10 14:58|| Front Page Top

#7 Of course, the most ironic part of these accusations is that the absolute worst thing, bar none, that we could do to the Muslim world is to stop buying oil from them. Their mono-economies would collapse in a matter of weeks, if not days.

Posted by dreadnought 2004-08-10 15:07|| http://]">[http://] 2004-08-10 15:07|| Front Page Top

#8 the nine-branched Jewish Menorah Hanukiyah and stars of David

quibble (but as the local expert on these things, let me) Technically the nine candled thingie is a hanukiah, and a menorah is a seven candled thingie, but the nine candled hanukiah is often called a menorah by Jews and nonJews alike. However its only the seven candled menorah that is routinely displayed on the exterior of synagogues - the nine candled hanukiah would be displayed only at Hanukkah.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-10 15:43|| http://]">[http://] 2004-08-10 15:43|| Front Page Top

#9 You tell 'em, LH! (Not to mention that the Chanukkia would only be displayed inside, or set in a window -- unless of course, the Chabadniks are fighting public Xmas displays in your area with gigantic free-standing Chanukkias).

But the whole article appears riddled with similar mistakes of fact and understanding, even to this little midwestern housewife.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-08-10 22:50|| 2004-08-10 22:50|| Front Page Top

#10 ZF, try 900% profit. It used to cost the Saudis $3/barrel (not sure what the latest figure is, but WTH, lets go wild and say $4). The Columbian cocaine cartel can't even touch that.

Posted by ed 2004-08-10 22:57|| 2004-08-10 22:57|| Front Page Top

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