Article

2023-03-05 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Setting the Record Straight; Stuff You Should Know About Ukraine

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by DooDahMan 2023-03-05 10:31|| || Front Page|| [20 views ] Top

#1 We must also assume that Russia’s alleged "unprovoked aggression" was not unprovoked at all but was the appropriate humanitarian response to the deliberate killing of civilians

Bollocks. The build up on the Russian side took months. The invasion was a fait accompli long before the shelling. And pointing out that Ukraine is not a good actor isn't exactly a ground breaking observation. They suck, but for now we like them better than the other guys.

Posted by Angstrom 2023-03-05 12:07|| 2023-03-05 12:07|| Front Page Top

#2 I like Russians, but once again their government has led them into the darkness. I'm okay with us providing Ukraine with weapons because it's good to work out all the bugs and I hope they are submitting constant bug reports for us to make improvements. We also get to see Russian stuff in action. Worth the price of admission.

Posted by Silentbrick 2023-03-05 13:32|| 2023-03-05 13:32|| Front Page Top

#3 Not so sure about Unz, but I'll hear the author out.

He begins with a lie and continues lying.
VOA Feb 17,2022: The OSCE reported more violations around Luhansk than Donetsk during the past two days, but even so, longtime observers say the shelling in and around Donetsk is the most intense they have seen in years.

On Friday the pro-Moscow separatist leaders, who are seen by Ukraine as puppets of the Kremlin, ordered a mass evacuation of civilians in posted videos, saying the Ukrainian army was planning an attack — an accusation vehemently denied by Kyiv.

According to the metadata of the videos, analyzed by experts, the broadcasts were prerecorded two days before, suggesting the evacuation, renewed shelling and other events, including an inexplicable car bombing, in Donbas are being orchestrated by the Kremlin, say Ukrainian officials, Western leaders and independent observers.

They accuse Moscow of building up a pretext for launching an offensive on Ukraine. Kremlin officials deny this, with Russian Foreign Affairs Minister Sergei Lavrov and other Russian diplomats accusing Western leaders of “hysteria” and “alarmism.” Saturday, Russian authorities claimed a shell, allegedly fired by Ukraine, exploded on Russian territory near a house in the village of Mityakinskaya in the southern Rostov region.

Western intelligence officials say the evacuation and mobilization orders and intensifying artillery and mortar fire, which they blame on the Russian separatists, are consistent with warnings that U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken made at a midweek presentation to the United Nations Security Council, where he accused Moscow of preparing ‘false flag’ operations that could be blamed on Kyiv but are in fact ordered by the Kremlin and conducted by its own forces or proxies.

Old Soviet and Nazi trick of generating pretext for invasion.

Posted by Spaish Platypus1029 2023-03-05 16:09|| 2023-03-05 16:09|| Front Page Top

#4 NB I have not commented 319 times ! Not even close!
Is this normal or a glitch?

I wonder why the Ukrainians just shell women, children (were there any baby milk factories also?). For no reason. Just to hit a peaceful people minding their everyday lives..

By the time this story was written (if not pre-written by the KGB) there were Russian soldiers and mercs inside Ukraine, in the so called, People;s Republics".
The shelling and shooting was mutual. There was a war going on that many in the world decided to ignore.

Posted by Armaros 2023-03-05 17:20|| 2023-03-05 17:20|| Front Page Top

#5 I had a look at OSCE's reports from that period, and didn't find anything to support this claim.

Posted by kkollwitz 2023-03-05 19:15|| 2023-03-05 19:15|| Front Page Top

#6 In the meantime, there's this on OSCE's homepage:

"KYIV, 16 January 2023 –The OSCE Chairman-in-Office, Minister of Foreign Affairs of North Macedonia Bujar Osmani, completed his visit to Kyiv today.

During his visit, Chairman Osmani observed first-hand the terrible toll Russia’s senseless and unjustified war continues to have on the people of Ukraine and called on the Russian Federation to immediately end the aggression."

Posted by kkollwitz 2023-03-05 19:20|| 2023-03-05 19:20|| Front Page Top

#7 NB I have not commented 319 times ! Not even close!

Just guessing, but has anyone else used either your nym or your IP with a different nym, Amaros? Or it might indeed be a bug in the program. Fred rolls his own code, which means the important stuff is better than store-bought, but the unimportant stuff drops down the urgency list.

Posted by trailing wife 2023-03-05 20:34|| 2023-03-05 20:34|| Front Page Top

#8 I had a look at OSCE's reports from that period, and didn't find anything to support this claim.

Just the opposite. The Russians were the aggressors 80-90% of the time. Before Feb 24, the OSCE stived for neutrality and didn't assign blame. But if you look at their cease fire violation reports, it was obvious there the vast majority of shells landed. An example
Table of ceasefire violations as of 20 February 2022

You can search more OSCE reports/press at: News and press releases

Posted by Spaish Platypus1029 2023-03-05 23:54|| 2023-03-05 23:54|| Front Page Top

#9 Just the opposite. I mean it disproves this authors claims. He is lifting his points straight from Russian propaganda central. Shame on him.

Posted by Spaish Platypus1029 2023-03-05 23:57|| 2023-03-05 23:57|| Front Page Top

23:59 Uloluter Chaviter6576
23:57 Spaish Platypus1029
23:54 Spaish Platypus1029
23:50 Mad Eye Omeretch7959
23:38 trailing wife
23:29 Mad Eye Omeretch7959
23:06 Skidmark
23:04 Skidmark
23:03 Skidmark
20:43 lord garth
20:37 DooDahMan
20:35 DooDahMan
20:34 trailing wife
20:32 Frank G
20:31 Slavish Speans9373
20:03 Slavish Speans9373
19:43 Besoeker
19:39 trailing wife
19:38 Super Hose
19:20 kkollwitz
19:15 kkollwitz
18:57 Illeagle
18:39 Mercutio
18:27 NoMoreBS