Article

2022-06-06 Science & Technology

Are Behavior Medications Related To Murders?

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by NN2N1 2022-06-06 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11127 views ] Top

#1 Germany tried to use medications to make killers 80 years ago. US & USSR tried for decades afterwards. We got caught & said we stopped. It’s such an enticing prize- did we stop and stay stopped?

Posted by Glenmore 2022-06-06 00:27|| 2022-06-06 00:27|| Front Page Top

#2 Two people are shot dead and third is killed by 'a fleeing car' after 'multiple shooters' fire on 14 near a Tennessee bar - as nation is plagued by another weekend of gun violence

Posted by Skidmark 2022-06-06 04:31|| 2022-06-06 04:31|| Front Page Top

#3 California: No. 1 in Gun Control, No. 1 in ‘Active Shooter Incidents’

Posted by Skidmark 2022-06-06 05:22|| 2022-06-06 05:22|| Front Page Top

#4 Thanks for looking into my question.

Posted by Airandee 2022-06-06 06:29|| 2022-06-06 06:29|| Front Page Top

#5

It looks like the "Magic" mental illness cure pills, that allowed the States to empty their Asylums back in the 1980-90's, is not a safe solution.

The Nut-Jobs just quit taking it, and/or the Insurance Companies quit covering it, or the mental Illness eventually exceeds the Magic Pill's abilities.

Maybe reopening and increasing the capacity of State Mental Asylums for Stage 3 and 4 level, needs to be seriously looked at again.

Of course, the (L-S-D's) will fight it.
Because it will put a big dent in their Gun Control efforts.

Plus, it would properly address the growing Immoral/Decadent behavioral displays, which are mental Illness related, not physically / medically based.

Posted by NN2N1 2022-06-06 07:36|| 2022-06-06 07:36|| Front Page Top

#6 Any chance Big Pharma might be involved ?

Posted by Besoeker 2022-06-06 07:38|| 2022-06-06 07:38|| Front Page Top

#7 This is a STUPID argument. People with mental/emotional issues are found to be taking drugs that help with mental/emotional issues -- as shocking a discovery as finding a cancer patient is on anti-cancer medication. Finding that not everyone is helped by the drugs is as shocking as finding not everyone on cancer medication is helped, as well.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-06-06 08:30|| 2022-06-06 08:30|| Front Page Top

#8 BTW, the organization pushing this story is a Scientology front. Scientology is opposed to all forms of mental/emotional treatment outside the cult. This crap is not promoted with anyone's well-being in mind; it's as poisonous as the LGBTQ+AEIOU garbage.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-06-06 08:33|| 2022-06-06 08:33|| Front Page Top

#9 Maybe reopening and increasing the capacity of State Mental Asylums for Stage 3 and 4 level, needs to be seriously looked at again.
Posted by: NN2N1 2022-06-06 07:36

...A good and needed idea, and one that ain't ever gonna happen.

I and a lot of other people remember when the moves to 'deinstituionalize' started in the late 70s (Way too many people who should know better blame it on Ronald Reagan, which they know isn't true but deflects blame) - real, genuine and horrifying abuses were found, along with the fact that many, many patients were simply being warehoused until they had the decency to die. When the bad news started coming out, almiost every state in the union killed their mental hospital system, promising to bring their carte methods up to date.

Needless to say, that never happened. The money always seemed to end up somewhere else.

Since - for most advocates of the mentally ill - the default setting is that the patients have been/are/will be abused, full open-ended commitment is a fairly rare thing these days. Nothing is going to be done about anyone until they actually commit some atrocity and then are impolite enough to survive the incident...and then, they're going to prison, not anywhere where they can actually get help they should have gotten in the first place. It's far cheaper and easier to deal with the handful of survivors than give them the assistance that might have prevented a disaster.

Mike

Posted by MikeKozlowski 2022-06-06 09:13|| 2022-06-06 09:13|| Front Page Top

#10

Posted by Skidmark 2022-06-06 09:45|| 2022-06-06 09:45|| Front Page Top

#11 Rob Crawford, if you listen to the depression medication commercials they always have a warning that a small percentage of folks taking the drug have suicidal thoughts. In other words it doesn't work as expected. What are the chances some have homicidal thoughts?

Posted by ruprecht 2022-06-06 14:53|| 2022-06-06 14:53|| Front Page Top

#12 Paradoxical reactions are a thing. With psych meds, it's a thing to watch closely. Uncontrolled withdrawal from psych meds is a bad deal always.

But they are handed out like candy. Essentially mandated for many boys in elementary school. What a surprise that doesn't go so well...

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-06-06 14:55|| 2022-06-06 14:55|| Front Page Top

#13 But they are handed out like candy.

With little followup.

"The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) National Survey on Drug Use and Health data found that in 2018, 47 million adults over age 18 reported a mental health condition."

@1:5.

Posted by Skidmark 2022-06-06 15:10|| 2022-06-06 15:10|| Front Page Top

#14 And lots of people on various scrip psych drugs go out and trade them for what they really want, which may be other drugs, booze, sex, etc.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-06-06 15:12|| 2022-06-06 15:12|| Front Page Top

#15 Most psych drugs have zero value on the recreational market because they have no noticeable effect unless you have the condition they treat. You need massive doses of SSRIs, for example, before you notice an unusual effect, and the result is like a caffeine high you could get cheaper and easier from McDonald's coffee.

The biggest problem is no one bothers to keep an eye on kids who are clearly trouble. The schools milk them for special program money, do the minimum to help them, and never impose discipline because discipline is hard and scary and "male". The police don't pay attention because they're under pressure for revenue enhancement and have to deal with crimes that have happened rather than ones that might happen.

So there's little or no follow-up. Maybe the kid gets sent to a psych by the court or school, maybe gets a prescription for something that MIGHT help. Maybe the kid takes them, maybe not -- you can't be sure whoever has been housing and feeding the kid will make sure they take their meds, because they let problems get that far already.

But "it's those damned drugs" is a cheap, easy answer that appeals to some people's sense of... something. And it's a more appealing conclusion than "bad things happen", I get that.

But bad things happen. Those things aren't always preventable without a police state that would make the East German Stasi think you've gone too far.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-06-06 15:30|| 2022-06-06 15:30|| Front Page Top

#16 Skid, that quote says nothing about "handed out like candy" or follow-up.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-06-06 15:32|| 2022-06-06 15:32|| Front Page Top

#17 Lots of druggies will swallow damn near anything. Lots of bangas will peddle almost anything.

Not saying you are wrong, Rob, nor arguing with you. Just saying there's about nothing rational about that scene.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-06-06 15:34|| 2022-06-06 15:34|| Front Page Top

#18 Then you may as well sell them generic M&Ms.

My mother was taking fentanyl while cancer was killing her. That has street value, and the hospital literally sent someone to make sure the remainder was destroyed. SSRIs and anti-psychotics? Not so much.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-06-06 15:48|| 2022-06-06 15:48|| Front Page Top

#19 There is two years of Covid Response Bullying due, and there is a more aggressive ad stance from both medication and therapy clinics for depression.

Posted by swksvolFF 2022-06-06 17:14|| 2022-06-06 17:14|| Front Page Top

#20 Rob Crawford,
I agree with everything you said in #15, but your points don't discredit the initial question in the title to this post, they support that question. You can't give drugs without supervision and follow up, especially to teens.

Most of these shooters are from broken homes as well, another puzzle piece nobody wants to look at, but that doesn't mean the other bits aren't factors as well.

Posted by ruprecht 2022-06-06 17:38|| 2022-06-06 17:38|| Front Page Top

#21 It should be a simple matter to develop a database with data from each of these mass shootings. Every shooting has facts associated with it that could and should be entered into the database. Some of the facts would be: race, gender, meds found in the shooter's blood, family history of criminal activity, family history of mental problems, the shooter's criminal record, where he bought the gun, what kind of gun, how he paid for the gun, where the shooting took place, how many victims, and on and on.

Once all of this data is organized into proper database tables sql queries could show relationships between the tables, rows and columns. I believe these queries would be highly informative, possibly to the point of suggesting highly effective solutions.

I'd like to believe that the FBI or some other government entity started work on such a project some time ago and, if they did, it would be interesting to see the findings. But, the FBI being the FBI, it's hard to say.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-06-06 20:08|| 2022-06-06 20:08|| Front Page Top

#22 One interesting column in the database would be which president was in office at the time of the shooting.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-06-06 20:11|| 2022-06-06 20:11|| Front Page Top

#23 Not school shooters, but it's worth noting both Ted Bundy and Jeffery Dahmer came from relatively normal upper middle class two parent homes.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-06-06 20:12|| 2022-06-06 20:12|| Front Page Top

#24

Posted by Spavins Snaising4358 2022-06-06 22:01|| 2022-06-06 22:01|| Front Page Top

#25 But Crawford KNOWS. He just does,

Posted by Snusort Sinatra8318 2022-06-06 22:15|| 2022-06-06 22:15|| Front Page Top

23:36 trailing wife
23:33 trailing wife
23:25 trailing wife
23:25 DarthVader
23:22 Janet Smellen
23:16 Janet Smellen
23:12 Janet Smellen
23:08 borgboy
22:58 Chealing Chomotle4158
22:55 Big Claing9655
22:51 BrownBart Shittypants Admirer
22:49 Chealing Chomotle4158
22:45 Sugar Sanwitch
22:37 Russkaya Kultura Rukoprovoditi
22:26 Bonnie and Trotsky
22:16 Chealing Chomotle4158
22:15 Snusort Sinatra8318
22:12 Big Darling of the Welsh6829
22:01 Spavins Snaising4358
21:48 Shiva Protector of the Hohl
21:23 Procopius2k
21:20 Canuckistan sniper
21:19 trailing wife
20:55 Slenter Panda4300