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2019-04-15 Europe
Notre Dame Cathedral is burning
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Posted by 3dc 2019-04-15 13:34|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [6638 views ]  Top

#1 So much for the restoration work. Bet on 'work place accident' as the cause.
Posted by Procopius2k 2019-04-15 13:51||   2019-04-15 13:51|| Front Page Top

#2 ...Fox is saying that it appears to be related to renovation work.

I pray so.

Mike
Posted by Mike Kozlowski  2019-04-15 13:53||   2019-04-15 13:53|| Front Page Top

#3 Thus far it does not look like a jihadi attack, so that’s something. And if the fire is stopped in the attics, the damage won’t be as great as it first appears. Possibly caused by an electrical short in old wiring?
Posted by trailing wife 2019-04-15 13:54||   2019-04-15 13:54|| Front Page Top

#4 I wonder about to coincidental timing

ONE OF THREE women allegedly involved in a foiled plot in 2016 to blow up a car packed with gas canisters near the Notre Dame cathedral in Paris was today (friday 12th april 2019) sentenced to eight years in prison by a French court for earlier offences.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2019-04-15 14:21||   2019-04-15 14:21|| Front Page Top

#5 Anger as France sees 10 Catholic churches attacked in ONE week

Wed, Mar 20, 2019
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2019-04-15 14:28||   2019-04-15 14:28|| Front Page Top

#6 Historic Saint-Sulpice church burns in Paris (VIDEO)

17 Mar, 2019
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2019-04-15 14:34||   2019-04-15 14:34|| Front Page Top

#7 Twelve French Churches Attacked, Vandalized in One Week

Some overlap extra detail with above.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2019-04-15 14:38||   2019-04-15 14:38|| Front Page Top

#8 Does it (did it?) have those lead shingles?
Posted by swksvolFF 2019-04-15 14:40||   2019-04-15 14:40|| Front Page Top

#9 Geeze, you'd think the French would've developed some fire fighting skills by now living so close to Germany and all.
Posted by jpal 2019-04-15 14:45||   2019-04-15 14:45|| Front Page Top

#10 Nevermind, that doesn't seem to be much of an issue anymore.

Looks like live-stream at Ace's; looks evening time which would be right.

And yeah, ok that is a big building that that is big fire, but it is right next to a major river and that's all the water they can put on it? Surprised the scaffolding hasn't peeled off yet.
Posted by swksvolFF 2019-04-15 14:56||   2019-04-15 14:56|| Front Page Top

#11 The spire has collapsed. So the building is basically a total loss I think. Scratch seeing this off my bucket list.
Posted by Charles 2019-04-15 15:12||   2019-04-15 15:12|| Front Page Top

#12 They will rebuild it.
Posted by 49 Pan 2019-04-15 15:19||   2019-04-15 15:19|| Front Page Top

#13 Ezekiel 10:18-19??
Posted by Ebbavirt Clunk4147 2019-04-15 15:21||   2019-04-15 15:21|| Front Page Top

#14  Twelve French Churches Attacked, Vandalized in One Week

If it’s Muslim colonists, Bright Pebbles, we’ll move this to Page 1: War on Terror. But at the moment the authorities are rather desperately insisting on not pointing fingers where they’ll cause riots at best.
Posted by Big Big Foot8865 2019-04-15 15:29||   2019-04-15 15:29|| Front Page Top

#15 The above was I, forgetting to reset my cookie.
Posted by trailing wife 2019-04-15 15:31||   2019-04-15 15:31|| Front Page Top

#16 It more for those wondering when the MSM will say there's no reason to think it's terrorism, when in fact there's many reasons to consider whether it was islam being islamic.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2019-04-15 15:32||   2019-04-15 15:32|| Front Page Top

#17 Fair enough, BP.

Latest from the Daily Mail link:

Authorities say there were no deaths from the fire although declined to comment on the number of injuries.

A spokesman said the entire wooden frame of the cathedral would likely come down, and that the vault of the edifice could be threatened too.

Cathedral spokesman Andre Finot told Le Monde: 'Everything is burning. The frame - which dates to the 19th century on one side and the 13th century on the other – there will be nothing left.

'We will have to wait and see whether the vault, which protects the Cathedral, will be touched by the fire on not.'

Deputy mayor Emmanuel Gregoire told BFMTV, 'A special mission has been launched to attempt to save all the works of art we can.'

Posted by trailing wife 2019-04-15 15:37||   2019-04-15 15:37|| Front Page Top

#18 This is devastating. One main tower seems to be affected, too.
I wonder how the marvelous stained glass windows are faring.
Posted by European Conservative 2019-04-15 15:46||   2019-04-15 15:46|| Front Page Top

#19 I say the 48-hour rule is in effect.

Stuff happens on construction sites. Usually involves temporary space heaters this early into a project. Later occurrences involve welding, soldering or cutting.

Bothersome question as to how many construction workers were of the 'jihadic persuasion', though.
Posted by Mullah Richard 2019-04-15 15:50||   2019-04-15 15:50|| Front Page Top

#20 Would have thought their would be enough burnable content in a stone cathedral with lead roof. Rennovations mean scaffolding and probably tarps, and the roof would have some wood beams to hold it up, but still. A bigger fire than I would have guessed.
Posted by rjschwarz 2019-04-15 15:51||   2019-04-15 15:51|| Front Page Top

#21 ONE OF THREE muslim women allegedly involved in a foiled plot in 2016 to blow up a car packed with gas canisters near the Notre Dame cathedral in Paris was today sentenced to eight years in prison by a French court for earlier offences.

Ines Madani, 22, was sentenced following a three-day trial during which she was accused of encouraging would-be jihadists to go to Syria and participate in attacks against France between March 2015 and June 2016.
Posted by Woodrow 2019-04-15 15:56||   2019-04-15 15:56|| Front Page Top

#22 It will be telling if it is rebuilt......as a mosque.
Posted by AlanC 2019-04-15 16:26||   2019-04-15 16:26|| Front Page Top

#23 Jeez, I picked a great day to turn off the phone. Thanks all for covering this. Having (parochial) flashbacks to watching the Cabildo burn. Wish I could go back and tell my youngish self about this... and kinda glad I don't have to tell my parents. In case anyone's not angry enough already:
Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is falling apart (CBS story from March 2018 on effort to convince Americans to pay their fair share for "repairs").
Posted by Zenobia Floger6220 2019-04-15 16:40||   2019-04-15 16:40|| Front Page Top

#24 I get that maybe this was a fire which if not extinguished in the first 10 minutes, this would happen.

What I don't understand is why anything developed to throw water on high-rise buildings isn't there pumping the Seine dry turning this building into a giant cistern.

So far everything main structure wise looks intact. That is, more or less, the fixable things have burned. Not an uncommon thing back in the day when cathedrals would be struck by lightning (legend was, this is why the lead sheeting, which does make some sense). The problem I see is if a wall, the stone work, comes down, are there still enough people trained in stonework to rebuild?
Posted by swksvolFF 2019-04-15 16:59||   2019-04-15 16:59|| Front Page Top

#25 Twitter thread on fighting such fires
Posted by SteveS 2019-04-15 17:03||   2019-04-15 17:03|| Front Page Top

#26 Shame the French scaffolding company did not build and design the world trade center buildings they would still be standing God can all that tucking fire and heat for hours and the thin metal scaffolding still stands for damn good dwarves mithril I guess?!
Posted by Omorong Black8889 2019-04-15 17:04||   2019-04-15 17:04|| Front Page Top

#27 what a shame
Posted by chris 2019-04-15 17:13||   2019-04-15 17:13|| Front Page Top

#28 French fire department says the structure of the building is saved. It also seems that the art works were saved.
Posted by European Conservative 2019-04-15 17:16||   2019-04-15 17:16|| Front Page Top

#29 Hajji hookah in the attic, or cooking fire ?
Posted by Besoeker 2019-04-15 17:19||   2019-04-15 17:19|| Front Page Top

#30 The damages may not be that dramatic. Thy certainly are substantial, but if you know a bit about how Gothic cathedrals are built, a burning rood is not the worst case scenario.

The spire was replaced in the 19th century, the roof can be rebuilt, the stone vaults seem to have withstood.
Posted by European Conservative 2019-04-15 17:26||   2019-04-15 17:26|| Front Page Top

#31 Take a minute, go to SteveS's link. It is spot on.

I can only add that if a wall collapse is possible, you want to clear an area away from the wall at least the height of the wall, preferable twice the height.

This is a very large building. If you have never been there, try to find something of scale in a picture or video.

Also, the location is difficult to access.

With the spire collapse damage unknown, and collapsing roof and wall concerns, it may the only thing left is what we call at least out here, "surround and drown".

If they put together a team of enough volunteers in full PPE SCBA to hump enough large hose to attack a burning, collapsing tower, the clanging you hear will not be from the bells.

As for the scaffolding, it appears the stonework protected it from the heat, and the radiant heat wasn't enough to cause obvious damage. Bet you wouldn't want to touch it. Bet it isn't thin either, just looks that way because of the distance.

*Looks like they got a couple nozzles where they may be able to spray the towers - the concern is the bells, specifically the rope holding them. Should have some air support by now, a spotter directing the nozzles, maybe able to get some footage of interior damage.
Posted by swksvolFF 2019-04-15 17:27||   2019-04-15 17:27|| Front Page Top

#32 I say the 48-hour rule is in effect.

True, but we know which way to bet.

And would French media actually tell the truth if it were Muslims?
Posted by charger 2019-04-15 17:50||   2019-04-15 17:50|| Front Page Top

#33 The ghost of Charles Laughton is gonna be pissed. Depending on just how bad the damage is this sucks. Irregardless of one's religious feelings this is a world heritage site. And irregardless of how one views the French this arguably an element of the soul of France
Posted by Cheaderhead 2019-04-15 18:50||   2019-04-15 18:50|| Front Page Top

#34 If it is terror, the French authorities are certainly capable of covering it up. Societal cohesion preventing the Right from being proved correct and all that.
Posted by Herb McCoy  2019-04-15 20:17||   2019-04-15 20:17|| Front Page Top

#35 I fear the three magnificent window roses won't have survived. They are one of the absolute masterpieces of Christian art ever.
Posted by European Conservative 2019-04-15 20:40||   2019-04-15 20:40|| Front Page Top

#36 would French media actually tell the truth if it were Muslims?

Maybe, charger. I lean toward probably because this is an important building and the fire was watched around the world. But also that the first reports in that direction — should that be how it happened — would say lone wolf with a history of mental problems.

But I must also add something a friend posted today. As background, she has pretty much been bedridden with what looks like chronic fatigue syndrome for about a quarter century, which she references as the frame for her comment:

In 1993, I first became suddenly and dramatically incapacitated with the thing that has grown gentler but has also become my daily life. So I mention this because back then, the only thing I had to pass the long hours of lying perfectly still was the radio, and in that first week, a historic church burned down roof first, like Notre Dame. It wasn't .0001% as important a place as Notre Dame, but it was the church I had been attending.

The fire was indeed started by renovation, as may be true in Paris. In the local NY case, they had already cleaned up and locked the building, and one guy was using a blow torch to just melt a bit more tar on the outside of a stone facing. He didn't realize the stone was thin and that the wood behind it was catching fire. When they saw the siding above the stone facing starting to melt, they knew what was happening, but none of the crew had a key to unlock the door again. It was rural, where it took a while for fire crews to arrive, and the wind was high that day. The fire spread inside the walls and burst out on the roof.

I didn't see it, of course. I was confined to bed, not moving. I just heard the hourly reports on the fire all day. Seeing the horrific pictures of Notre Dame, I feel like I can't afford to grieve, but I feel a sense of standing in history and hearing the hourly reports across time. Nobody can imagine a Paris without that cathedral.


European Conservative, there are enough photos of the stained glass — and stained glass is easy enough to create — that they will be reproduced. We have the example of the reconstruction in recent decades of what was destroyed in Western Germany to have a feel for what might be done with the interiors afterward, assuming the French choose to afford it. My mother’s cousin was one of those who walked around Hildesheim collecting donations to rebuild the beautiful medieval buildings of the city center (the thousand year old rosebush survived without additional aid).
Posted by trailing wife 2019-04-15 20:54||   2019-04-15 20:54|| Front Page Top

#37 Lucky enough to visit and photograph several years ago. now if only I can find the pictures (or at least the negatives)
Posted by USN, Ret. 2019-04-15 22:08||   2019-04-15 22:08|| Front Page Top

23:59 Elmegum Gurly-Brown4825
22:51 Skidmark
22:47 Skidmark
22:18 KBK
22:08 USN, Ret.
21:19 Procopius2k
21:14 Zhang Fei
20:54 trailing wife
20:40 European Conservative
20:17 Herb McCoy
20:07 Frank G
19:59 Frank G
19:49 Pearl Brown6709
19:47 Pearl Brown6709
19:28 Cheaderhead
19:26 Cheaderhead
19:24 Cheaderhead
19:20 Cheaderhead
19:16 Cheaderhead
19:12 Cheaderhead
19:06 Cheaderhead
18:50 Cheaderhead
18:46 Classer
18:40 Glolumble Ulosing4003
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