Archived material Access restricted Article
Rantburg

Today's Front Page   View All of Sat 06/30/2018 View Fri 06/29/2018 View Thu 06/28/2018 View Wed 06/27/2018 View Tue 06/26/2018 View Mon 06/25/2018 View Sun 06/24/2018
1
2018-06-30 Europe
Bye Bye?
Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
Posted by 3dc 2018-06-30 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11132 views ]  Top

#1 Auf Wiedersehen.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2018-06-30 02:48||   2018-06-30 02:48|| Front Page Top

#2 "My statement on NATO being obsolete and disproportionately too expensive (and unfair) for the U.S. are now, finally, receiving plaudits," Trumps said during his 2016 presidential campaign on Twitter.

Yep - major force reduction coming. How you like them apples, Angela?
Posted by Raj 2018-06-30 05:30||   2018-06-30 05:30|| Front Page Top

#3 The Hospital at Landstuhl near Ramstein AFB was the premier medical and surgical center for our forces during the Iraq war. The folks there did their work admirably. Repaired our family Marine's serious skull injury (plus a couple other pieces dislodged by a 500-lb IED). He said the care there was first-rate and he was back on duty within three weeks.

The Hospital could indeed move, though. Might take a bit of time for all the facilities.
Posted by Mullah Richard 2018-06-30 07:11||   2018-06-30 07:11|| Front Page Top

#4 ...would have been closer to fly him to say Tel Aviv, less flight time, fewer international overflight requests.

On that note.
Posted by Procopius2k 2018-06-30 07:52||   2018-06-30 07:52|| Front Page Top

#5 Could move them to the Mexican border.
Posted by AlanC 2018-06-30 08:14||   2018-06-30 08:14|| Front Page Top

#6 *Laughter* I remember Gulf War 1 and seeing the local National Guard/Army Reserve vehicle park empty of "Camo Green" and then refill with "Desert Tan". My thought was that all of those units stationed in West Germany had left and were never going to return...
Now for Act 2... Warsaw Pact isn't there any more and priorities change.
Posted by magpie 2018-06-30 08:17||   2018-06-30 08:17|| Front Page Top

#7 I like the idea of overseas force reductions in general. Not playing the role of hostages any more either. Bring them home, maybe the border cab use them.
Mullah Richard, good to hear about the family Marine.
Posted by Whiskey Mike 2018-06-30 09:45||   2018-06-30 09:45|| Front Page Top

#8 Yeah, if you don't like ICE, wait to you see takes over their ancient duties on the border.
Posted by Procopius2k 2018-06-30 10:09||   2018-06-30 10:09|| Front Page Top

#9 Perhaps Poland or one of the Warsaw pact countries that has been loyal would like a US military base/hospital?

Long ago we should have gotten the ex-Warsaw pact together into an alliance separate from NATO or the EU. Sort of a neutral buffer between the Russians and Germans.
Posted by ruprecht 2018-06-30 11:32||   2018-06-30 11:32|| Front Page Top

#10 The article fails to consider how much money those 35,000 troops spend in Germany, which could otherwise be spent along our southern border.
Posted by Abu Uluque 2018-06-30 11:51||   2018-06-30 11:51|| Front Page Top

#11 Long ago we should have gotten the ex-Warsaw pact together into an alliance separate from NATO or the EU. Sort of a neutral buffer between the Russians and Germans.

The Intermarium.

See the Visegrad Group.
Posted by charger 2018-06-30 13:05||   2018-06-30 13:05|| Front Page Top

#12 We could try the Amazon headquarters model and see which country is willing to pay the most to the US treasury to have a major US base in its country.
Posted by Matt 2018-06-30 13:07||   2018-06-30 13:07|| Front Page Top

#13 It's cheaper and more convenient for the U.S. to keep the troops in Germany. A withdrawal of say 10,000 would affect some local businesses, but that's about it.
U.S. troops are no longer in Germany to defend Germany. Russian forces are more than 800 miles away from the German frontier and would now have to cross countries which are NATO members and would give invading Russian troops a hard time. Also there have not been any U.S. heavy armored forces in Germany.
Many of the facilities in Germany would require extensive remediation before they were returned to Germany. Consider the costs.
Germany has the best infrastructure and the best strategic location.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 13:35||   2018-06-30 13:35|| Front Page Top

#14 Many of the facilities in Germany would require extensive remediation before they were returned to Germany.

How much did the Soviets/Russians pay to remediate facilities abandoned in old East Germany?
Posted by Procopius2k 2018-06-30 14:03||   2018-06-30 14:03|| Front Page Top

#15 Soviets were broke and would simply not have left
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 14:12||   2018-06-30 14:12|| Front Page Top

#16 U.S. troops are no longer in Germany to defend Germany.

So they are there because...?
Posted by Bobby 2018-06-30 14:23||   2018-06-30 14:23|| Front Page Top

#17 Strategic reason and location (think Middle East operations). Excellent facilities for training which have been built up for decades. Friendly environment and support. Best infrastructure. Excellent hospitals.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 14:27||   2018-06-30 14:27|| Front Page Top

#18 Landstuhl near Ramstein is home to the largest US military hospital outside America. Here wounded soldiers are cared for by the best doctors on foreign missions.

In Stuttgart is Africom's headquarters, which specializes in crisis management in the countries of Africa.

Ramstein also plays an important role in the U.S. drone war against targets in Africa, Yemen and Pakistan.

In the past, Ramstein also served as a transhipment point for weapons supplied to Syrian rebels.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 14:38||   2018-06-30 14:38|| Front Page Top

#19 We service Africa from there too and we have 60 years of sunk costs. I think this is just tweaking the Merkel a bit pre NATO summit.
Posted by Capsu78 2018-06-30 14:40||   2018-06-30 14:40|| Front Page Top

#20 Could be. But Merkel has other problems right now.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 14:43||   2018-06-30 14:43|| Front Page Top

#21 ^That's too bad.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2018-06-30 14:54||   2018-06-30 14:54|| Front Page Top

#22 When your partner is a bit demanding, ungrateful, mouthy, and petulant, you can start the divorce or just remind them that it's an option on the table.
Posted by Frank G 2018-06-30 16:21||   2018-06-30 16:21|| Front Page Top

#23 Germany's contributions are estimated at 150-200 million euros per year.

One example is the new military hospital in Weilerbach, which the Americans intend to build by 2018 to replace the largest US military hospital in Landstuhl to date. According to the federal government, the troops will pay about 43 million euros for construction and planning costs. However, this does not match the real costs, which amount to 170 million euros. The federal government will pay 127 million euros for the new American military hospital in the coming years.

Try this in Poland
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 16:42||   2018-06-30 16:42|| Front Page Top

#24 I'm sure that's an option.
Posted by Raj 2018-06-30 16:45||   2018-06-30 16:45|| Front Page Top

#25 It's just so much more unnecessary welfare spending. Just because it's not as visible as Tyrone playing scratchoffs in his $350 underarmor outfit in the middle of the day while I'm just trying to buy gas doesn't mean I like it any more.
Posted by M. Murcek 2018-06-30 17:24||   2018-06-30 17:24|| Front Page Top

#26 Can we see your PhD in Economics diploma, Eurine Preservative?
Posted by M. Murcek 2018-06-30 17:26||   2018-06-30 17:26|| Front Page Top

#27 Right after your PhD in Orthography
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 19:04||   2018-06-30 19:04|| Front Page Top

#28 I spent ten years in Germany, mostly in the same unit. My tenure was between 1971 and 1991, in Wiesbaden. USAFE headquarters moved from Lindsey AS to Ramstein, the flying unit I was involved with also moved from Wiesbaden AB to Ramstein, and a number of support units also left. The Army moved in, took over the Airbase and local housing, and returned one housing area to the Germans. The high school didn't change, and it remained the site for boarded students.

When the Berlin Wall fell and the Soviets pulled out of East Germany, the mission of more than half the troops in Germany disappeared back across the Moldovan border. We pulled a huge number of troops back, or moved them in support of other operations.

I agree with Trump in that the European members of NATO have not kept up their end of the bargain. Germany, IIRC, contributed about 1% of its GDP to defense, and much of that was NOT in support of its NATO commitment. GB's Labour government scrapped half of its warfighting commitment, especially after the Falklands war.

The Soviets spent billions on propaganda to destroy NATO. They succeeded far more than the Europeans want to admit. We proved repeatedly during REFORGER (REturn of FORces to GERmany) exercises that we could move troops to mate up with equipment stored on site, and rapidly build up forces in central Europe. The biggest problem is that it costs money to store that equipment. It was supposed to be a 50/50 split. We spend about 80% instead.

There are many problems with NATO, and most can be laid at the feet of our "allies".
Posted by Old Patriot 2018-06-30 20:04||   2018-06-30 20:04|| Front Page Top

#29 When in Ramstein, visit the Das Landgasthaus Pörrbacher Hof, in the tiny village of Pörrbach. Only a 15 minute drive. Try the rump steak. One of my favorites. <(:-P
Posted by Besoeker 2018-06-30 20:32||   2018-06-30 20:32|| Front Page Top

#30 Old Patriot, first of all, thank you for your service. I served in the Bundeswehr and my son is an officer in the Bundeswehr. He has done three tours in Afghanistan.

No doubt Germany doesn't spend enough on defense, although numbers are rising (slowly). My son also has a lot to say about the lack of public support. He can only dream about getting the same respect that a member of the U.S. military is getting in the U.S. "Thank you for your service" is something he has only heard in the U.S. The German Left views everyone in uniform as a war criminal.

That said the U.S. has excellent reasons to base the majority of its forces and installations in Germany. And I don't think this will change. The benefits are mutual.

Germany has and will continue to be the preferred posting of U.S. troops. They have always been welcomed by the local population in South West Germany and Bavaria.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 20:32||   2018-06-30 20:32|| Front Page Top

#31 Besoeker, I know that place. Excellent. Ochsenfetzen are very good, too.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 20:37||   2018-06-30 20:37|| Front Page Top

#32 Ahhh, we are of like mind. And if the sun has not set, a walk through the quiet hills and pastures behind the restaurant, and back again for a glass of wine on the patio. Not many know of this place.
Posted by Besoeker 2018-06-30 20:41||   2018-06-30 20:41|| Front Page Top

#33 I've been to Ramstein quite a lot and I've taken guests there. They all loved it.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 20:52||   2018-06-30 20:52|| Front Page Top

#34 Maybe an opportunity to remember that politics shouldn't divide us. We have had difficult times before.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-06-30 20:53||   2018-06-30 20:53|| Front Page Top

#35 My wife and I lived at the Ramsteiner hof for a period of 6 months, 2008 time frame. I was concerned for the wife as she had no automobile. First evening I returned from work she showed me her shopping basket told me about the shop keepers she had met. Within a week she was taking the train to 'K Town.'
Posted by Besoeker 2018-06-30 20:57||   2018-06-30 20:57|| Front Page Top

#36 European Conservative, my thanks to you and your son for your service. If only more of your countrymen thought like you.
Posted by trailing wife 2018-06-30 23:28||   2018-06-30 23:28|| Front Page Top

#37 Amis raus!
Posted by Cheamble Big Foot2238 2018-06-30 23:31||   2018-06-30 23:31|| Front Page Top

#38 And then there's that Bad Duerkheim wine fest. But poor K-town soccer team. I think they are playing in the 3rd division now.
Posted by Cheamble Big Foot2238 2018-06-30 23:35||   2018-06-30 23:35|| Front Page Top

23:35 Cheamble Big Foot2238
23:31 Cheamble Big Foot2238
23:28 trailing wife
22:42 Zenobia Floger6220
21:59 JohnQC
21:44 Skidmark
21:31 JohnQC
21:20 gorb
21:15 gorb
21:04 European Conservative
20:57 Besoeker
20:54 gorb
20:53 European Conservative
20:52 European Conservative
20:41 Besoeker
20:37 European Conservative
20:36 Besoeker
20:32 European Conservative
20:32 Besoeker
20:04 Old Patriot
20:00 Bobby
19:58 JohnQC
19:42 NoMoreBS
19:41 Old Patriot









Paypal:
Google
Search WWW Search rantburg.com