Article

2011-10-04 Europe

Greece Falls Into 'Death Spiral': Rising Debt, No Growth

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Posted by Fred 2011-10-04 03:07|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 The previous debt rises never had much/any real growth...

Real GDP is GDP MINUS GROWTH IN DEBT.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2011-10-04 05:44|| 2011-10-04 05:44|| Front Page Top

#2 Why does that death spiral statement also sound like the US?

Posted by DarthVader 2011-10-04 10:39|| 2011-10-04 10:39|| Front Page Top

#3 Gee, I wonder what the US GDP growth would look like w/o the combined federal and state deficit spending of 12% GDP? 11% of GDP by the federal government alone.

Posted by Eohippus Phater7165 2011-10-04 10:43|| 2011-10-04 10:43|| Front Page Top

#4 It would look like what your seeing out of the window....

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2011-10-04 11:31|| 2011-10-04 11:31|| Front Page Top

#5 #1 - oversimplified, and not the common definition of GDP.
GDP is a sum of Consumption (C), Investment (I), Government Spending (G) and Net Exports (X M).
Y = C + I + G + (X − M)
I think that's what most economists use. They do conveniently leave out debt.
If you create a new term, GDP corrected for debt, and use US figures going back about 30 years, the US economy has grown little if at all. The apparent improvement seen in that time frame has mostly been an illusion, similar to people spending extravagantly by taking out a 2nd mortgage. That used to work pretty until, until it didn't.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-10-04 17:21|| 2011-10-04 17:21|| Front Page Top

#6 So you agree or disagree?

The GDP is adjusted for debt, as GDP will grow if debt is used for real investment, and shrink (by the net interest) if debt is used for consumption.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2011-10-04 20:16|| 2011-10-04 20:16|| Front Page Top

#7 Follow 3 figures, not just 1, but be clear about it: GDP, GDP/governmental debt, and GDP/total national debt (add up governmental, business & private)
The other figure I can't get my head around is the idea that it is possible for economies to grow indefinitely. Seems mathematically impossible.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-10-04 22:31|| 2011-10-04 22:31|| Front Page Top

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