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2010-10-11 Economy
Desperate Terminator offers Silicon Valley to RU, praises Medvedev as visionary.
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Posted by Besoeker 2010-10-11 12:22|| || Front Page|| [2 views ]  Top

#1 Arnold's not desperate. Come next January, he can leave Sacramento. For all the grief it's given him, I think he'll be ecstatic on that day. My impression is that he really tried to do a good job but the leftists in the legislator and the public employee unions made it impossible and will continue to do so for whoever replaces him. People talk about missing George Bush but let me tell you, a few months after the return of Governor Moonbeam and a lot of us are gonna be missing the Terminator.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-10-11 15:05||   2010-10-11 15:05|| Front Page Top

#2 Sorry Gov, it's already been given to China. This must be for the few remaining engineering jobs left in the US, perhaps.

According to Andy Grove past CEO of Intel:

U.S. Versus China

Today, manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is about 166,000 -- lower than it was before the first personal computer, the MITS Altair 2800, was assembled in 1975. Meanwhile, a very effective computer-manufacturing industry has emerged in Asia, employing about 1.5 million workers -- factory employees, engineers and managers.

The largest of these companies is Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., also known as Foxconn. The company has grown at an astounding rate, first in Taiwan and later in China. Its revenue last year was $62 billion, larger than Apple Inc., Microsoft Corp., Dell Inc. or Intel. Foxconn employs more than 800,000 people, more than the combined worldwide head count of Apple, Dell, Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard Co., Intel and Sony Corp.

10-to-1 Ratio

Until a recent spate of suicides at Foxconn’s giant factory complex in Shenzhen, China, few Americans had heard of the company. But most know the products it makes: computers for Dell and HP, Nokia Oyj cell phones, Microsoft Xbox 360 consoles, Intel motherboards, and countless other familiar gadgets. Some 250,000 Foxconn employees in southern China produce Apple’s products. Apple, meanwhile, has about 25,000 employees in the U.S. -- that means for every Apple worker in the U.S. there are 10 people in China working on iMacs, iPods and iPhones. The same roughly 10-to-1 relationship holds for Dell, disk-drive maker Seagate Technology, and other U.S. tech companies.

You could say, as many do, that shipping jobs overseas is no big deal because the high-value work -- and much of the profits -- remain in the U.S. That may well be so. But what kind of a society are we going to have if it consists of highly paid people doing high-value-added work -- and masses of unemployed?

Since the early days of Silicon Valley, the money invested in companies has increased dramatically, only to produce fewer jobs. Simply put, the U.S. has become wildly inefficient at creating American tech jobs. We may be less aware of this growing inefficiency, however, because our history of creating jobs over the past few decades has been spectacular -- masking our greater and greater spending to create each position.

Tragic Mistake

Should we wait and not act on the basis of early indicators? I think that would be a tragic mistake because the only chance we have to reverse the deterioration is if we act early and decisively.

Already the decline has been marked. It may be measured by way of a simple calculation: an estimate of the employment cost- effectiveness of a company. First, take the initial investment plus the investment during a company’s IPO. Then divide that by the number of employees working in that company 10 years later. For Intel, this worked out to be about $650 per job -- $3,600 adjusted for inflation. National Semiconductor Corp., another chip company, was even more efficient at $2,000 per job.

Making the same calculations for a number of Silicon Valley companies shows that the cost of creating U.S. jobs grew from a few thousand dollars per position in the early years to $100,000 today. The obvious reason: Companies simply hire fewer employees as more work is done by outside contractors, usually in Asia.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-01/how-to-make-an-american-job-before-it-s-too-late-andy-grove.html
Posted by Black Charlie Chinemble5313 2010-10-11 15:05||   2010-10-11 15:05|| Front Page Top

#3 It's pretty sad that whether Trotsky, Lenin, Stalin or Marx said it, it was true...
you know, about the capitalists and the rope.
Posted by Black Charlie Chinemble5313 2010-10-11 15:53||   2010-10-11 15:53|| Front Page Top

#4 Thank you for that, Black Charlie. It was certainly thought provoking.

One thought that occurs to me is that we don't have much of a discussion about why American workers can no longer compete with Asians.

I think the simplest answer is inflation. For example, in the early 1970's I was fresh out of high school and working in a fast food establishment for about $1.05/hour. Today, according to Wikipedia the minimum monthly wage for full time workers in China is about US$140.62 (let's see..one month = four weeks @ $35.15/week divided by five days/week = $7.01/day divided by eight hours/day = ~$.88/hour). Close anyway, huh?

So I think I could have been competitive back in those days assembling mother boards (and it couldn't have been worse than flipping burgers). But then, that was when you could rent an apartment for $94/month and buy gas for $.25/gallon. Hmmmmm. How much to rent a half decent apartment these days? How much for a gallon of gas, not to mention a car or a house?

So what has our government done about this sky balling, ruinous inflation? Well, they inflated the cost of housing with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and sketchy mortgages. They continued to build freeways when what we really need are trains and buses. Yes, that's right. I know there are those of you who are in love with your cars but that's tough $hit. Think about it, you are a slave to that car. People talk about tax freedom day but here's another day you might want to think about: the day of the year when you have finally earned enough for all of your car payments, gas, maintenance, parking and insurance. Huh? And when do think that day is for the average Chinaman?

We could go on and on about inflation and you can feel free to challenge me on any of this. But what I want to know is what our political class is saying and doing? Because I don't hear any of them, Republican or Democrat, saying the first frickin' thing about it.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-10-11 16:37||   2010-10-11 16:37|| Front Page Top

#5 How much for a gallon of gas, not to mention a car or a house?

Back in the 60s, a Micky D's was 15 cents each for a hamburger, a drink and fries. Gas was about 40 t0 45 cents. Today its 10 times as much but still relative to each other.

Yep, cars and the like were cheaper. In more than costs. Throw in safety, maintenance [which relates to life expediency of the vehicle], and gas mileage, yesterdays cars are largely a bunch of Yugos. There's a reason they're 'rare vintage' automobiles.

You want to go back to the good old days of cheaper and far less capable medical care, circa 1970, go ahead. Live or die with the protocols, procedures, technology and pharmaceuticals of then. It'll indeed be cheaper and more 'affordable'.

The problem for America is in the Beltway in the 'magnanimous' surrenders to other countries self interests at the expense of the American worker [along with the short sighted greed and power mongering by union leadership] and the obstruction of the development and exploitation of key strategic value in domestic energy production. If we wanted to, we can be energy independent which then puts other countries at a economic disadvantage in real competition.

The situation has also been compounded by the uncontrolled flow of labor across the borders. That which is scarce usually sees its value rise. That which is plentiful usually sees its value diminished. One ends up supporting a minimum wage even if it distorts the labor market because of the rank failure of the same government in controlling the borders and artificially depressing the wages of Americans.

It's interesting that the 'best and brightest' in the Treasury seem to comprehend the effect of printing money and controlling the flow of currency, but can not grasp those same concepts when it comes to labor.

Tell me, how much would a computer of the present one sitting on your or my desk cost in 1970 which enables us to not only communicate and do unimaginable things from those days, but to strike at the heart of the institution of the MSM and undermine the power of established political parties? Could any of us afford that capability in 1970? Thus, even in face of all the material and social costs involved, has it not brought us closer to insuring our liberties and freedoms than a stagnated 1970's standard of living?
Posted by Procopius2k 2010-10-11 17:07||   2010-10-11 17:07|| Front Page Top

#6 The railroads are missing a huge profit maker, the Car train, simply put auto's on trains with a car for the driver/passengers and charge the same as for people only.
Sinc the rails are far more efficient movers, Just charge what the Gasoline would cost and make out like bandits, Schedule the trains daily and when word gets out Drivers will flock to the Rail/road stations.
Think, sleep when others (The engineers) are driving, and eliminate rent-a-car and taxi fees as well.
Posted by Redneck Jim 2010-10-11 17:17||   2010-10-11 17:17|| Front Page Top

#7 Dunno how it would pencil out, Redneck, but it sounds like a good idea. Your car would last a lot longer if you didn't have to put all those miles on it. I'm not saying you can't have a car. I'm saying that driving a car to work every day is for the birds. Just monumentally stupid.

And I'm not saying we should have stopped everything in 1970 either. I know that your cell phone today is far more powerful than the biggest mainframe of that era. But that's not what caused inflation. Piss poor government policies are what caused inflation. Runaway spending, subsidies, giveaways. War is a big culprit too. Wars cost a helluva lot of money even though I'm not saying we shouldn't defend ourselves. Unions demanding ever increasing wages doesn't help either because companies like General Motors pass those increased labor costs onto their customers.

The main thing I'm saying is that this country's leaders and the people too are not talking about why we can't compete. I could just about forgive Carly Fiorina for sending all those jobs to China if she would just talk about why she had to do it, what she would do in the Senate to fix it and why wasn't she screaming bloody murder back in the 90's when there was still time to do something about it. Instead she did what all the CEOs were doing: outsource overseas, layoffs at home and imports from China.

This relates to national security too. If we can't make computers anymore we're sunk. That's almost as bad as not being able to make tanks, planes or ships.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-10-11 18:20||   2010-10-11 18:20|| Front Page Top

#8 Hard to compete against slaves who are given the latest and greatest technology, unless you become a slave yourself. Western civilization will not be able to be sustained if things continue currently. And that's a monumental disaster.

(The workers who work for these Chinese companies sleep in barracks, they don't need to commute. Would you like to join them?)
Posted by Black Charlie Chinemble5313 2010-10-11 19:06||   2010-10-11 19:06|| Front Page Top

#9 No, no, no. I would NOT like to join them. I would like to COMPETE with them but NOT by joining them or emulating them in any way. In fact, what I'm trying to say is that we should be able to do it without compromising our standard of living or the progress we have made in technology. We should be able to do that. There was a time when we could have done that. But inflation and bad government policies have made it so that we no longer can. That is the problem. I want to hear the next Republican who runs against Obama talking about solutions.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-10-11 19:22||   2010-10-11 19:22|| Front Page Top

23:20 Mike Kozlowski
23:08 Procopius2k
22:44 Barbara Skolaut
21:47 DarthVader
21:06 phil_b
21:05 Procopius2k
20:56 JosephMendiola
20:54 Eric Jablow
20:40 Besoeker
20:37 Besoeker
20:37 Besoeker
20:36 trailing wife
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20:30 Frank G
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