Article

2010-09-28 -Lurid Crime Tales-

The Price of Weed in your neighborhood...

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Water Modem 2010-09-28 01:20|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 The "War on Drugs" is a kafka-esque joke. After decades and decades, billions and billions spent, hundreds of thousands incarcerated and prosecuted, hundreds killed in ilicit trade-related violence, drugs are everywhere. Usage (and abuse) are more prevalent. Prohibition = epic fail. Then there's the connection to failed states, terrorism, illegal immigration and a host of other ills.

Posted by DJ Curtis C 2010-09-28 05:19|| 2010-09-28 05:19|| Front Page Top

#2 But it provides a lot of federal employment DJCC.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2010-09-28 05:49|| 2010-09-28 05:49|| Front Page Top

#3 That's because the 'war' hasn't started. It's certainly not run like one.

It should be:

Grow drugs - You die.
Smuggle drugs - You die.
Sell drugs - You die.
Use drugs - You die.

Then I'll consider the war to have actually started and we'll see some improvement after the initial bloodbath.

Posted by Silentbrick 2010-09-28 06:13|| 2010-09-28 06:13|| Front Page Top

#4 Fascinating site. Everybody gets high quality almost regardless of price. And a lot of people are willing to supply information, though we don't know how many haven't even smoked a Camel yet or work for the DEA. It is also a statement in the foolish assumption that what you do on the internet is anonymous, even though they know your town when they ask for a price quote.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-09-28 07:11|| 2010-09-28 07:11|| Front Page Top

#5 Saudi Arabia has a pretty effective war on drugs. Singapore too.
Our prisons are full of marijuana smokers making connections and learning the intricacies of the drug business.

Posted by Glenmore 2010-09-28 07:17|| 2010-09-28 07:17|| Front Page Top

#6 Decivilization, just two blocks south then a sharp left. We'll likely be grinding cow horn into potion, drinking blood, and dancing under full moonlight soon. It may be a bit tame, but I've been known to play a mean didgeridoos, please advise.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-09-28 07:21|| 2010-09-28 07:21|| Front Page Top

#7 once again, this is probably not going to be the popular view...

but i really think the best thing to do would be to legalise hard drugs on prescription from doctors.

Think about it: because it is then free/cheap you drive the drug dealers and pushers out of business

You take away the income generating capacity for the drug cartels

the coca farms lie rotting in the sun because they aren't getting money for their produce.

Drugs available on prescription are grown by the government only not private enterprise and provided through very super secure dispensaries. Perhaps people have to physically go there, use under supervision then leave not taking any home with them.

The worst part about drugs is not the actual drugs - it's the criminal cartels who make so much money out of them they become a law unto themselves.

Smash them first perhaps?

Posted by anon1 2010-09-28 07:55|| 2010-09-28 07:55|| Front Page Top

#8 oops, forgot to add: available on prescription from secure dispensaries - not for anyone but only for REGISTERED addicts.

Posted by anon1 2010-09-28 07:56|| 2010-09-28 07:56|| Front Page Top

#9 #8 oops, forgot to add: available on prescription from secure dispensaries - not for anyone but only for REGISTERED addicts.
Posted by anon1

Simply an expansion of the Medical Marijuana Pharmacy product line eh?

Posted by Besoeker 2010-09-28 08:16|| 2010-09-28 08:16|| Front Page Top

#10 because it is then free/cheap

anon1,
No, the drug companies would patent time-release, enteric-coated versions and air glossy ads during the Super Bowl and charge the same price the market has already proven willing to bear.

Posted by Glenmore 2010-09-28 08:47|| 2010-09-28 08:47|| Front Page Top

#11 If the people want to go to hell, let them do so, inexpensively and non-violently. Let us try to talk them out of it to be sure; but having failed to do so, how violent do we want to be in preventing their journey?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-09-28 08:47|| 2010-09-28 08:47|| Front Page Top

#12 Glenmore,

In the good old days, doctors, lawyers and pharma couldn't advertise. We could return.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-09-28 08:49|| 2010-09-28 08:49|| Front Page Top

#13 Anon,

I actually believe that pot should be decriminalized and sold under the same restrictions as alcohol - after all, who's ever seen a belligerent stoner?
You mention, however:

You take away the income generating capacity for the drug cartels

This is a problem that no one seems to consider: why are the cartels (in this case, weed) going to go away? This is a multi-billion dollar a year industry, and it's unlikely that these kindly gentlemen - or the small local pot farmer - are going to simply quit growing just because the state now says it's legal. The cartels are going to flood the market with weed that will be even cheaper than it is now, because it won't have the costs and taxes on it that the state will add. The personal grower sure as heck isn't going to stop, because he or she has no incentive to. Not to mention that state-grown (or at least state-sold) weed is going to have to be grown in accordance with any number of regulations and environmental rules that is going to make the stuff even more expensive than cigarettes.
I believe that once the stuff's legal, we're going to see a war on drugs unlike anything we've EVER seen before because now the State in all its power and majesty has its cut to defend. The State isn't going to allow legalization because weed is a relatively harmless substance - it's going to allow it because there's money to be made, and they aren't going to allow anyone or anything to get a dime of that. You think the War on Drugs is a horror show now? Wait until they're legal.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2010-09-28 08:59|| 2010-09-28 08:59|| Front Page Top

#14 Then what will the "legal" pot smoking age be, and how might it be enforced? Do we not already have enough of a challenge with our teens and alcohol? What will the legal consumption limit be for a Delta Airline pilot?

Posted by Besoeker 2010-09-28 09:16|| 2010-09-28 09:16|| Front Page Top

#15 Ah, yes, just legalize it and all the death and mayhem ends. NOT. Since the end of Prohibition we've simply moved the death and carnage column on the books from one entry to another. More Americans have died on our roads and highway in alcohol related deaths than all the war since, not counting the murders and homicides committed under the influence. Just be honest about it.

As for 'legalizing' check how states regulate existing alcohol sales and distributorships. Many grant limited licensing. That means a few families or 'cartels' have the license and make big bucks which some how manage to find their way into your politician's reelection funds. Mexico politicians were generally corrupt already, but drugs simply threw the figurative gasoline on the fire. So, just understand that we'll follow the Mexican model of even more corruption.

And just prepare for even more drugs flowing into the hands and lives of the kiddies. It's bad enough with tobacco, alcohol and illegal drugs. Americans are overweight because food is cheap and readily available. Just toss in cheap and readily available drugs. Outlaw salt, sugar, and fat, but make sure they can get their little hands on the stuff. At least it should drop the usage of Ritalin administered by the education professionals upon them.

Posted by Procopius2k 2010-09-28 09:17|| 2010-09-28 09:17|| Front Page Top

#16 Dudes... you're harshing my mellow.

Posted by Swanimote 2010-09-28 09:35|| 2010-09-28 09:35|| Front Page Top

#17 Someone on another blog (Classical Values, I think) put the whole legalization of drugs situation very plainly: to wit, with the availability of drugs we will either have a 'legal' problem, or a 'public health' problem. One or the other. Our choice.

Posted by Sgt.Mom 2010-09-28 10:07|| http://www.celiahayes.com 2010-09-28 10:07|| Front Page Top

#18 I am always amazed by the concept that there are people out there who are not now using drugs but will use them as soon as they become legal. We can't even keep them out of prisons! No one who wants them cannot now get them. No one who wants to experiment has not been offered freebies. Especially the kiddies.

Making them legal will not significantly change the number of people who use them. All that will change is the frequency of use and the money and violence involved in their distribution.

If we are a nation of stoners, let's get on with it. But I doubt we are, just as we are not a nation of drunks. That we are so tolerant of those who are drunks should not be taken out on those who drink responsibly, but those who don't.

The Delta pilots should be subject to random drug testing regardless of whether drugs are legal or not.

Legalize or go the silentbrick route. In between is chaos and lawlessness.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-09-28 11:17|| 2010-09-28 11:17|| Front Page Top

#19 If you don't think we don't have a voting dependent class now - just wait until you give them affordable, cheap, legal, and socially acceptable weed. Its the ultimate Democrat ball-and-chain: Vote for the conservative and they'll take away all your weed....

And yes - I think usage would go way-up if you made it 'legal' - then it would be socially 'acceptable' to light up a pipe in public.

Posted by CrazyFool 2010-09-28 11:26|| 2010-09-28 11:26|| Front Page Top

#20 The drug problem in China is under control. You get convicted, you become an organ doner.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-09-28 11:29|| 2010-09-28 11:29|| Front Page Top

#21 And yes - I think usage would go way-up if you made it 'legal' - then it would be socially 'acceptable' to light up a pipe in public.

Legality and social acceptability are orthogonal concepts. Smoking tobacco is legal. In many circles it is socially unacceptable. Smoking dope is illegal. In many circles, including I suspect the White House, it is socially acceptable. I also suspect you can go to rock concerts where many pipes are lit up.

There are legal and social limitations on where alcohol can be consumed. I doubt that if the sale and use of drugs were legalized that it would be less fettered than the sale and use of alcohol, probably more so.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-09-28 11:45|| 2010-09-28 11:45|| Front Page Top

#22 I agree w/NS. Cigarettes & dip are legal - I don't smoke or dip. I could be an alcoholic but I'm not. I could over indulge in food but I don't and am not fat.

I don't buy the cartel argument that they will just flood the market w/cheaper pot...how many beer cartels are there doing this? How many liquour cartels are doing like wise? What about the cigarette cartels under selling marlboro?

I don't have a problem w/decriminalizing pot. Tax, regulate like alcohol...make it 21 and over or whatever the regs are. In a perfect world Let the states make the decision they think best for their state - if CA wants it - I can always move there or away. That's my opinion anyhow.

Posted by Broadhead6 2010-09-28 11:55|| 2010-09-28 11:55|| Front Page Top

#23 Cato

The Budgetary Impact of Ending Drug Prohibition

Posted by Beavis 2010-09-28 12:44|| 2010-09-28 12:44|| Front Page Top

#24 Go ahead. Legalize it. But you're gonna miss this Western Civilization when it's gone. You'll be sitting in a teepee and staring at your belly button, willing the hunger and the cold to go away, smoking it away, annoyed at your baby's crying and your wife's bitching. Because who's gonna fly your airplanes or clean your teeth or maintain all those nukes? Who's gonna keep the Chicoms from marching in here, lining us up and shooting us down? Huh? They'll be too busy watching cartoons, you know. Like, grooving. Out to pasture, man.

Yeah, the war on drugs is a joke. All it does is keep the prices high for the crooked fat cats who are raking in the money and it gives the cops an excuse for a little bit of selective enforcement, ie., keep those black guys in jail but leave the white kids alone. Just like our border is a joke. Other countries manage to secure their borders. The reason we don't is because there are too many crooked fat cats making too much money from all the corruption.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-09-28 12:51|| 2010-09-28 12:51|| Front Page Top

#25 EU you are posing a false choice. If pot was legal very few more people would use it than do now. The same people that fly the planes today would fly them tomorrow.

Even stoners grow up and put away their childish things for the most part. I know many people from my college days that pretty much gave it all up within a couple of years of graduation. Your concern seems like something right out of "Reefer Madness"......so just chill dude ;^)

Posted by Alan Cramer 2010-09-28 13:36|| 2010-09-28 13:36|| Front Page Top

#26 If we're going to legalize drugs, my only demand is that at the same time we quit supporting drug addicts.

You can't get/hold a job because of your drug use? Too bad; sleep in the gutter. I don't want one thin dime of my hard-earned money going to support these clowns. (And while we're at it, the same goes for alcoholics, too. No public assistance for them either. I'm sick of supporting people because of their addictions.)

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-09-28 13:49|| 2010-09-28 13:49|| Front Page Top

#27 I don't want one thin dime of my hard-earned money going to support these clowns.

...but, but the children(tm). They usual suspects will make sure they'll get the productive citizens' money by playing the usual guilt game.

Posted by Procopius2k 2010-09-28 13:55|| 2010-09-28 13:55|| Front Page Top

#28 Alan, I think you missed the earlier remark about social acceptance. You are also missing the part about how all these black market types are not going to fold up shop just because the government opens a competing shop. The same old bad guys will continue to take the stuff to our schools. Did you know that kids are far more likely to get hooked than adults? They don't have the maturity or the good judgment that they will after they turn 21. So when some older, cooler kid draws a white line for them on a coke board they'll try it. That's right. Eleven year old kids in elementary schools. You know it's happening already. Don't forget the cocaine and heroin. Keep in mind the crystal meth while your at it. Let's see...then there's ecstasy, oxycontin, pcp, vicoden, etc., etc. There are so many good ways to be bad, as the poet once said, and the bad guys will not stop with pot. Are you willing to draw a line somewhere or would you just let all those little kiddies go to hell?

Silentbrick might be going a little too far. I just can't see myself shooting Lindsey Lohan. Sorry. I would put army troops on the border with orders to shoot to kill when anybody steps across the line. But, as I said, our government has gotten way too corrupt for such a sensible solution.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-09-28 14:31|| 2010-09-28 14:31|| Front Page Top

#29 Don't forget that an addiction often (very often) does not effect only the addicted. There is the family who suffers with them. I've known a family where the father was addicted to drugs (harder than weed - I think it was coke or crack). Would steal money from his wife - even his own kids. Sell family stuff for dope. Several trips through rehab. nobody wanted to give up on him - he was basically a 'good man' just tangled up in something over his head. He ended up suiciding in despair. In actuality I think he did it to free his wife family.

There are people who chose not to smoke it because it's illegal.

This is much the same argument for having condom dispensers in high (and middle / elementary) school restrooms - "they are going to do it anyway" so why not? It'll make it safe! All it does is give a big, green light. The words say 'disapprove' while the actual actions say 'approve'.

Actions always speak louder than words.

Posted by CrazyFool 2010-09-28 16:23|| 2010-09-28 16:23|| Front Page Top

#30 Come on guys, many of you are starting to sound like my father.

Marijuana is not going to cause the fall of western civilization. It is already de facto legal in california, just pay a doc $100 for the card. I refuse to believe that a great number of people are going to give up their lives and turn into hippies because it is legalized.

As for the cartel issue- These guys are career criminals, they will turn to kidnapping or extortion if you legalize MJ. They will not get part time jobs at Target, they will just commit different crimes, they will follow the money.

Posted by bigjim-CA 2010-09-28 16:55|| 2010-09-28 16:55|| Front Page Top

#31 I admit my way would be a bloodbath the first generation, but after that, it will taper off and in the long run, save more lives.

I'm against legalization. To me it's a moral choice not to simply write those people off if you legalize it. You may as well kill them. Besides, if smoking is so horrid, why are we going to legalize something else you frigging smoke?

Plus, it's already reaching the point where you can't fire alcoholics since it's treated as a disability, after you legalize drugs, what makes you think it won't happen with it as well. Oh, Bob's a stoner, but you can't fire him, even if he does drive his bus through a crowd every time he's toking up.

Posted by Silentbrick 2010-09-28 17:28|| 2010-09-28 17:28|| Front Page Top

#32 It is already de facto legal in california, just pay a doc $100 for the card.

I rest my case :)

Posted by CrazyFool 2010-09-28 17:34|| 2010-09-28 17:34|| Front Page Top

#33 I think somebody was spot on when they said:

legalise it and you have a "public health" problem

don't legalise it and you have a "criminal" problem.

But it costs a lot of money to run jails, and the population has exploded in the clink.

I think on balance it might be better to still have drugs outlawed, but more a misdemeanour with fines the penalty.

Instead, have the hard drugs available on prescription to addicts, to dry up the money.

The growers will still grow.

The drug cartels will still try to make money.

But if you are a heroin addict itching for a fix and instead of having to rob a 7-11 at gunpoint for $50 you can go to a secure medical facility, and - being registered and certified as an addict by a doctor - be given the fix you now need to stay sane, then I think society will benefit.

The money trail dries up.

That addict doesn't give the stolen $50 to the dealer, who doesn't give it to his upline... and so on back to Afghanistan.

and instead of spending the money on law enforcement maybe spend it on public education showing people the bad effects of drug use.

i think it might actually be better to turn it into a public health problem rather than a criminal problem.

same goes for the coca farmers in south america. If cocaine is no longer worth however many thousands, then the risks to export to the US suddenly become not so worth it anymore.

Posted by anon1 2010-09-28 18:41|| 2010-09-28 18:41|| Front Page Top

#34 Middle ground hybrid is the way to go, IMHO.
Find a way to taint drug supplies via a secret DEA unit undercover with a chemical that makes one have to go to a doctor and have medical attention, then flag the person's medical record for recreational drug use, and raise their health insurance, putting them in their own high risk indemnity group. Kind of like raising cigarettes to ten dollars a pack. I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying."- Oscar Wilde

Posted by Private Eye 2010-09-28 18:53|| 2010-09-28 18:53|| Front Page Top

#35 If they don't have health insurance, take a payroll deduction for the cost of their own drug rehab. If they don't have a job, take it out of their unemployment benefits. If they are a student, take away their student loans. If they are jobless, not a student and uninsured, issue a citation.

Posted by Private Eye 2010-09-28 18:55|| 2010-09-28 18:55|| Front Page Top

#36 and instead of spending the money on law enforcement maybe spend it on public education showing people the bad effects of drug use.

The education piece has been happening in the schools since the 1960s, anon1. I remember being shown "Reefer Madness" and being too young to understand what it meant, except that it was bad. It was a very progressive school system -- we were mostly professors' offspring, and in addition to sex ed. in nine of my twelve years of primary and secondary education, we were also taught exactly why and how drugs were bad. I was probably the only student put off by this information -- but then, my mother was working toward advanced degrees in Health Ed. at the time, so we were discussing it at home as well.

Education about side effects does not influence normal people, as far as I can tell. Social attitude does: the trailing daughters and their friends mostly think that using drugs is proof of stupidity, so they don't... except for formerly temporary daughter, who went through a stage where she thought it was glamourously dangerous, and therefore artistic and edgy, which is how she thinks of herself. But then she and her boyfriend nearly got caught by the police, and were smart enough to decide it wasn't worth it.

In these difficult times, it's hard enough to find a job when you're young if you're absolutely perfect. With drugs on your record, you simply can't compete.

then the risks to export to the US suddenly become not so worth it anymore.

They're exporting cocaine to Europe, too, via North Africa, as I recall. Hizb'allah and Al Qaeda protect the transports and take a cut of the profits. That won't stop just because it becomes legal in the U.S.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-09-28 19:02|| 2010-09-28 19:02|| Front Page Top

#37 the population has exploded in the clink.

And it is disproportionately black. That will haunt this country for a long time. Along with the welfare policies of the "Great Society" we have devastated the black family and community that has not been able to take advantage of the change in people's attitudes that might otherwise have been possible. Remember that when the Coleman Report was written in the late 60's the black illegitimacy rate was less than 30%.

What a waste this War on Drugs has been. All so that pathetic people who want to get high and escape their lives have to steal to pay for the poison.

And don't tell me about the kiddies at school. A neighbor in my upper middle class neighborhood tried to sell my 10 year old pot and made sure he knew where to get some when he was ready to start. The cops tossed his trash for a few weeks, but didn't come up with anything and unless I wanted my kid to testify, there wasn't anything else they could do. The kids are going to be approached by someone sooner or later. That's a tough thing, but it's part of growing up and we all had to go through it.

Barb, we should stop supporting the addicts now, legal or illegal. In fact, it makes more sense to support them when it's legal, but not very much.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-09-28 19:09|| 2010-09-28 19:09|| Front Page Top

#38 Ya know, on third thought, I think there are too many bureaucratic loopholes exploitable under legalization. Silentbrick's

Grow drugs - You die.
Smuggle drugs - You die.
Sell drugs - You die.
Use drugs - You die.

Makes the most sense, because, after all if you take a lot of drugs, you're kind of wishing to die anyway, and if you sell drugs you're profiteering off the lives you take, and if you don't die, you're still half dead. So cut out the middleman. And yes, I have lived abroad in countries with a drug death penalty and drug use is lower. Much Lower. BTW, 100% of the schoolmates I knew growing up who died of drug overdoses before age 30 (four, personally) were caucasian. The black and druggie meme seems a little thin and worn out.

Posted by Private Eye 2010-09-28 19:28|| 2010-09-28 19:28|| Front Page Top

#39 If I remember my research correctly one reason that Pot was made illegal was the ending of prohibition. The untouchables needed a new set of baddies to justify their existence. I've forgotten which one of J. Edgar's boys it was that pushed it (maybe Melvin whatshisname (Purvis?)) back in the mid/late '30s. That was the time of Reefer madness.

I was an RA in '70-'72 and learned a whole lot about all sorts of drugs up close and personal. Even had to help pull a bad trip off the fire escape that he was sure he could fly from. Soapers and 'ludes were probably the worst problem, followed closely by fake THC aka PCP aka angel dust. Amazing what pig tranquilizers do to a person. Pot was a total non-issue even as far as class attendance and work went.

Make pot legal and control it like booze.

I totally agree with the non-support of addicts. They made their choices, they can live or die from them. If there are kids involved take them and find homes for them.

Posted by Alan Cramer 2010-09-28 20:38|| 2010-09-28 20:38|| Front Page Top

22:46 Mr. Bill
22:46 gorb
22:33 gorb
22:32 JosephMendiola
22:32 Zhang Fei
22:27 JosephMendiola
22:25 Barbara Skolaut
22:25 gorb
22:23 JosephMendiola
22:15 JosephMendiola
22:12 JosephMendiola
22:00 JosephMendiola
21:52 JDB
21:45 Pappy
21:45 JosephMendiola
21:29 JosephMendiola
21:21 Frank G
21:19 JosephMendiola
21:14 JosephMendiola
21:10 Tom
20:58 Nimble Spemble
20:52 Ptah
20:38 Alan Cramer
20:35 Frank G