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2010-05-30 Home Front: Culture Wars

Degree in Women's Studies from NYU not enough to pay back student loans

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Posted by gromky 2010-05-30 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11137 views ] Top

#1 Boy...there's a surprise. Someone with a useful degree like women's studies (or black studies, hispanic studies, you fill-in-the-blank studies, etc.) with a $150k price tag.

I figure potential employers figure she is just too stupid to hire if she spent $150k for a degree that any toad that can read single syllable words and memorize anti-white male euphemisms could get.

Posted by anymouse 2010-05-30 00:30|| 2010-05-30 00:30|| Front Page Top

#2 What does a woman with a useless college degree do?

Be a waitress, which, BTW, would be a possible flexible second job if she would stop sitting around whining about how everyone but her is responsible for her predicament. I'm sure there would be a few vacancies in San Francisco in that career choice. It might even help out a little with the food bill from time to time.

Of course, she might think that is beneath her as a NYU grad with a "prestigious" degree. It's not as much fun as going to night school (how the hell is she paying for that, anyway? More loans?), but at least she'd be making headway on that massive debt.

Posted by Cornsilk Blondie 2010-05-30 00:35|| 2010-05-30 00:35|| Front Page Top

#3 Poor thing, she just needs to hold on until the Barry O bailout is introduced.

What kind of dipstick gets an expensive degree in "women's studies", and what the hell is it anyway?

Posted by Jefferson 2010-05-30 00:56|| 2010-05-30 00:56|| Front Page Top

#4 What kind of dipstick gets an expensive degree in "women's studies", and what the hell is it anyway?

It's available for free on the internet.

Posted by gorb 2010-05-30 01:04|| 2010-05-30 01:04|| Front Page Top

#5 Women's studies is one of the many victories won by radical leftists in academia. Feminists demanded their own departments, degrees, department heads, etc., and got them. They invented a discipline out of whole cloth. It's been fantastically successful at cranking out thousands of ideologically conditioned radical liberals. Laugh at your peril.

Posted by gromky 2010-05-30 01:11|| 2010-05-30 01:11|| Front Page Top

#6 but she worries about her job prospects, even with her N.Y.U. diploma.

Translation: She spend 100K on a useless piece of paper from a paper mill University.

There's a name for these kind of people:

S-U-C-K-E-R

Posted by CrazyFool 2010-05-30 01:21|| 2010-05-30 01:21|| Front Page Top

#7 She should declare bankruptcy right now so that she doesn't have to pay that off.

Then Citibank might think twice before lending for useless degrees.

Then the number of students enrolling would drop

Posted by anon1 2010-05-30 03:38|| 2010-05-30 03:38|| Front Page Top

#8 Dunno how US bankruptcy law works. I was stupid enough to do an Arts degree in Australia, similarly useless. But i got a job and not too much debt as we pay through a government scheme that only makes you pay it back when you earn over a certain amount, and only as a percentage of your taxes.

It's only indexed to inflation so I don't really care if i never pay it back. I can still borrow for a house etc.

If I were Cortney I would immediately declare bankruptcy. I read there that it's easier to walk away from housing debt than student loans, but why?

I'm sure there is a way around it. Take anyway around it you can. $100k debt you cannot recover from. You need that debt to buy a house and buy income-producing assets.

Get rid of that liability straight up.

And while you are bankrupt I would take whatever job you can get and probably do some black money work on the side.

If I were you, Cortney, and if bankruptcy is not an option, I would go out and buy SuperFreakonomics, and copy the high-class prostitute. You will pay off your loan in a year then set yourself up for life in 3 if you play your cards right.

You might have read about prostitution in women's studies somewhere...

Posted by anon1 2010-05-30 03:45|| 2010-05-30 03:45|| Front Page Top

#9 If I were Cortney I would immediately declare bankruptcy
Anon1, unfortunately for Cortney, in the US federal and private student loans cannot be dismissed in bankruptcy.
A better outcome for her would be to wrangle her way into a public sector job. With Wymins studies its probably all she is suited for and according to a 2009 CATO Institute study the average federal civilian salary with benefits totals $119,982 compared to $59,909 for the average private sector worker. So she should be able to pay it back in no time at all.

Posted by tipper 2010-05-30 04:17|| 2010-05-30 04:17|| Front Page Top

#10 It sez right in the article, and I thought this was well-known, student loans cannot be escaped by bankruptcy. It's right up there with an emergency plane ticket home from your friendly (hahaha) US embassy abroad. That is, if you can actually meet a US State Department employee at an embassy. I've never seen one and they go to great lengths to avoid US citizens...they'll put the citizen services unit in another building miles away.

Posted by gromky 2010-05-30 05:14|| 2010-05-30 05:14|| Front Page Top

#11 "Cortney Munna and her mother."

Father? Father anywhere?

Posted by Tom 2010-05-30 06:28|| 2010-05-30 06:28|| Front Page Top

#12 Tom, in the full article, it said that he died while Cortney was in her early teens from an unspecified illness.

Posted by Cornsilk Blondie 2010-05-30 06:54|| 2010-05-30 06:54|| Front Page Top

#13 Many modern state universities and colleges were founded over a 100 years ago as basically A&M, agricultural and mechanical. These were practical applications that society could employ thus justifying their cost and expense. Many of them morphed with the addition of things like the physical sciences and allied mathematics about the time that technology started really impacting everyday life. People could identify the link between what they were getting with advanced education in more esoteric fields of endeavor. Then came the big money high created by the post-WWII GI Bill. Once graced with such a massive governmental fiscal shot, the institutions wanted more money, more resources. Thus began the long march through universities and colleges to become paper mills in which they certified competency in any particular venue to the glee of incompetent and inefficient personnel departments nationwide. From this fountain thus sprang all sorts of degrees in absolutely useless degrees in practical application and employment.

Long time past that state owned and operated institutions be slimmed down back to A&Ms, but with the terms Application & Medical as a more contemporary context. If the soul needs advanced education opportunities beyond that, there are private colleges to address the need if there is market.

Posted by Procopius2k 2010-05-30 08:27|| 2010-05-30 08:27|| Front Page Top

#14 Tom, in the full article, it said that he died while Cortney was in her early teens from an unspecified illness

Probably because he could? 8-
[/sarc off]

Posted by AlmostAnonymous5839 2010-05-30 08:59|| 2010-05-30 08:59|| Front Page Top

#15 @#2: Of course, she might think that is beneath her as a NYU grad with a "prestigious" degree.

Turns out that's an issue in Europe: one of the reasons unemployment is as high as it is in college grads there is that the grads won't take a job that is 'beneath' their education. If Courtney were German she wouldn't have that job with the photographer. She would, instead, go get a useless graduate degree and become even more unemployable, and the German government would pay for it.

Posted by Steve White 2010-05-30 09:15|| 2010-05-30 09:15|| Front Page Top

#16 @#3: Poor thing, she just needs to hold on until the Barry O bailout is introduced.

Yep, the Federales just took over the whole student loan system -- same bill as the takeover of health care, tossed in for free by Queen Pelosi. If Courtney had waited she would have been able to pay the loans over 20 years, up to a certain percentage of her miserable income, and have the rest forgiven. Or if she took a government or NGO job, 10 years.

Posted by Steve White 2010-05-30 09:18|| 2010-05-30 09:18|| Front Page Top

#17 Either she's not working full time or 40% of her pay is going to taxes and other deductions.

She's an educated person and should have learned how to handle this situation efficiently. Sue the photographer for harassment and pay off the loans.

Posted by KBK 2010-05-30 10:03|| 2010-05-30 10:03|| Front Page Top

#18 I tried to get a degree in women's studies once when I was in college...then they threw me out of their locker room.

Posted by Broadhead6 2010-05-30 10:16|| 2010-05-30 10:16|| Front Page Top

#19 wymyn's studies and living in San Francisco? I don't think marrying a rich "man" is in her plans. Comfortable shoes, maybe

Posted by Frank G 2010-05-30 10:47|| 2010-05-30 10:47|| Front Page Top

#20 General rule: with few exceptions, degree programs that do not involve math are useless.

Posted by Chemist 2010-05-30 11:03|| 2010-05-30 11:03|| Front Page Top

#21 Women's Studies is supposed to be about "empowering" women, if you bother to read the propaganda. A woman wastes 4 years and much money on this degree to end up unemployable and in debt. Now she must either rely on Daddy or a husband for support. How exactly does this "empower" her? If one was truely interested in "empowering" women, you'd get them to take something useful, like engineering. She could then get a well paying job and be completetly self-supporting.

Posted by Chemist 2010-05-30 11:32|| 2010-05-30 11:32|| Front Page Top

#22 Oh I'm sure the Woman's studies professors feel well empowered.

But hey - she got a tattoo....

Posted by CrazyFool 2010-05-30 12:10|| 2010-05-30 12:10|| Front Page Top

#23 Whenever I see a person with ethnic/women/peace studies I think: "Another wasted four years" I blame the parents and whomever guided towards that degree. Somebody should have told here along the way: "you will never get a decent job with this degree" She should have minored in business then she could have gone into personnel or human resources.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2010-05-30 12:17|| 2010-05-30 12:17|| Front Page Top

#24 A man with a useless college degree can always drive a cab. What does a woman with a useless college degree do?

Well she's not too bad looking, so I guess there might be at least one, very old, profession she can qualify for....

Posted by CrazyFool 2010-05-30 12:40|| 2010-05-30 12:40|| Front Page Top

#25 Maybe she should declare that she is an illegal alien
California Community College Now Has A Scholarship For Illegal Aliens.

Posted by tipper 2010-05-30 13:41|| 2010-05-30 13:41|| Front Page Top

#26 From this fountain thus sprang all sorts of degrees in absolutely useless degrees in practical application and employment.

To be fair this pretty well describes the pre-A&M universities that persisted in the west for centuries. Typically one studied the Western Canon and little if anything else, with the teaching of particular trade skills seen as beneath the dignity of the university. See e.g., the Harvard faculty's long resistance to the founding of their law school for one well-known example.

Cortney is intended consequence of the modern university and its governmental sugar daddies. Just as the student loan market began to react to the proliferation of unmarketable degrees (see e.g., State Street's "indentured servant" (my term) program and other programs that were beginning to base lending decisions on the discipline being studied) Congress rescued the purveyors of unmarketable degrees by placing student loans beyond the reach of bankruptcy courts. Thus with no incentive to evaluate loan applicants or the marketability of the degrees they seek, and (allegedly) no prospect of losses loans, providers were incentivized to lend to everyone and thus guaranteed an explosion of worthless courses of study and unmarketable degrees.

And now that we have a generation of Corneys who have discovered the worthless nature of the degrees they have been granted and who are unable and unwilling to bear the cost of same, it has become necessary for the government to nationalize the student loan program in order to continue keep the diploma mills rolling. The alternative would see the market kill unmarketable degrees as lenders refused to subsidize them.

Posted by AzCat 2010-05-30 14:22|| 2010-05-30 14:22|| Front Page Top

#27 Steve White

I don't agree with your points. Actually unemployment isn't that high for grads, and most of them will take most available jobs, often unpaid internships, to foster their career. Those who end up as taxi drivers exist, too (I drove taxis when studying to finance my life, education was free).

"If Courtney were German she wouldn't have that job with the photographer. She would, instead, go get a useless graduate degree and become even more unemployable, and the German government would pay for it."

No degree is "useless", but of course some degrees will secure you well paid jobs while others are less likely to do so.

Yet people who study, let's say Medieval Philology, usually don't have well-paid jobs in mind. In our society we do need a few (not many) experts in Medieval Philology, and as usual, the most dedicated can actually make a career (usually academic) out of it.

The others? Well, we also have too many bad lawyers, too.

But nobody in Germany starts a career with a six-figure debt.

In Cortney's case there seems to have been a blind faith that the best college will secure her a well-paid career. Well, how likely is that with "Women's studies"?

NYU could have told that girl that maybe she wasn't part of the chosen few who'd make an academic career. Suppose they didn't care as long as the checks cleared.

And banks who hand out 100000 dollars to students should also be forced to assume at least part of the risk.

Posted by European Conservative 2010-05-30 19:24|| 2010-05-30 19:24|| Front Page Top

#28 No degree is "useless"

WRONG! Perhaps this is true in Europe but not in the US. A degree in (fill in the blank) Studies is generally useless unless it leads to an otherwise useful professional degree in law, medicine or business. Wymens studies is a useless degree that will may lead to the acquisition of a useless law degree.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-05-30 19:45|| 2010-05-30 19:45|| Front Page Top

#29 Of course a degree alone doesn't get you anywhere, but there are many places you won't go without a degree.

I think in Germany there is no such thing as a degree in "Women's studies".

But I know quite a few people who achieved a great career with an "exotic degree".

Posted by European Conservative 2010-05-30 19:59|| 2010-05-30 19:59|| Front Page Top

#30 I'm pissed too cuzz my Amish studies deghree has got me know wear eider.

Posted by HammerHead 2010-05-30 20:01|| 2010-05-30 20:01|| Front Page Top

#31 Addendum

"useful professional degree in law, medicine or business."

I think our society needs not only lawyers, doctors and business people.

If education needs to be paid for, I'd recommend loans from the state, to be paid back according to your financial possibilities interest-free.

It's in the interest of every country to have well-educated citizens (who will pay a lot of taxes when working in well-paid jobs). But we also need people who dedicate themselves to not so well paid jobs: teachers, professors, writers, artists, musicians.

Germany has introduced a (rather modest fee) for universities. Yet I think that - apart from the most respected colleges/universities in the U.S. (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT etc) the education you get at a German university is as good as at an US institution.

The "investment" in our young is returned in taxes later on.

Posted by European Conservative 2010-05-30 20:10|| 2010-05-30 20:10|| Front Page Top

#32 Imagine an entire nation of just of lawyers doctors and bidness pros. That's a combustible combination. We need people whose writing is legible and understandable, so cross Doctors off the list, and legalese is Greek, cross out Lawyers. Ahem, which leaves Business folks, who also write contracts nobody, not even themselves, understand. Hmm. I prefer to keep some other careers for harmony and balance.

Posted by Whaviling Mussolini5480 2010-05-30 20:20|| 2010-05-30 20:20|| Front Page Top

#33 The "investment" in our young is returned in taxes later on.

not for the *-Studies Depts - their progeny are forever on the dole, teaching, or unemployed longing for that "right spot"

Posted by Frank G 2010-05-30 20:21|| 2010-05-30 20:21|| Front Page Top

#34 Well I don't know about the U.S. but at least in Germany the jobless rate among academics (including *-studies) is half than that of those who didn't study.

Posted by European Conservative 2010-05-30 20:25|| 2010-05-30 20:25|| Front Page Top

#35 2008 Graduate of University of Kentucky-School of Civil Engineering.
One full time semester of MBA school, to be completed later.

Total Cost- $74,000

Thankfully, I made a sensible choice in my line of study. I never blamed my lenders for the large cost, I do blame schools for letting expenses and tuition get totally out of hand. Tuition went up 15% every year for the five years I was in school, inflation was running about 3.25% at the time. There is a guilty party here, but it is not the lenders. Poor administration and unrealistic expectations are at least partly to blame.

Posted by bigjim-CA 2010-05-30 20:28|| 2010-05-30 20:28|| Front Page Top

#36 This is a textbook example of the Scarecrow Principle. "You don't need and education. All you need is a Diploma". Wizard of Oz. I wonder what kind of job she thought she'd get.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2010-05-30 20:29|| 2010-05-30 20:29|| Front Page Top

#37 As for unemployment, I recently read that the nationwide rate of unemployment for engineers is about 3%.

I assume that's for all disciplines.

Posted by bigjim-CA 2010-05-30 20:29|| 2010-05-30 20:29|| Front Page Top

#38 I was a supervisor in a large corporation a number of years ago, and had a young guy who had an arts-type degree (I called it a basketweaving degree).

He moved furniture, delivered office supplies, and made minor repairs for me, because he had quickly discovered after graduation that he couldn't make a living at whatever his "art" was. (I inherited him with the job - I probably wouldn't have hired him, as he really resented having to do manual labor - and let everyone know it.)

But at least he had a degree.

He'd have made more income if he'd spent the money going to truck-driving school, or becoming an apprentice to a plumber, carpenter, or electrician. But apparently "having a degree" was more important.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-05-30 20:32|| 2010-05-30 20:32|| Front Page Top

#39 "If education needs to be paid for, I'd recommend loans from the state, to be paid back according to your financial possibilities interest-free."

EC, I've got an even better suggestion - do what we did and SAVE as much money as possible, from early childhood. Of course, that requires responsible parent(s).

My mother made it clear to us from an early age that (a) she couldn't afford to pay for college for either me or my brother, (b) we were going to college, and (c) any money we got as gifts would be going into accounts in the S&L for those college years. (We were allowed to keep change, so we really hoped to get 50 cents rather than a dollar for a birthday, etc. - yeah, it was a loooong time ago.)

Did we like it? Hell, no. My brother is more focused than I am, so he didn't mind it so much, but I hated it. I wanted the things the other girls had. Mama (thank goodness) didn't care. That money went in the S&L, and I eventually learned to shut up since that wasn't going to change.

So come time to go to college, I had most of the money to pay for it. I worked (and saved more) before I went to college, worked while I was in college, and only had to ask my family to help me with part of the cost of the last semester. My brother worked his way through college, too, to supplement his savings. Our family helped where they could, but it was mostly up to us.

So I graduated from college with a B.S. and NO DEBT (as did my brother).

It can be done, it people plan ahead and don't spend their lives up to their asses in debt, "living" on credit cards.

Or, of course, they can whine like Ms. Cortney here. And unfortunately for the rest of us, most do. :-(

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-05-30 20:47|| 2010-05-30 20:47|| Front Page Top

#40 It would take a heap of savings to do that today. I have read about schools offering prepaid educations at greatly reduced rates, I think it was Ohio State that would let you do that. But like I said, I borrowed sparingly, went to a public school and still had $74,000 in loans. The only thing that saved me was my choice of degrees. Well worth the money, in my particular case, but that's not a guarantee. The inflation adjusted cost of getting an education is getting out of control, how high will it be when my kids are ready to go to college? At the current rate of appreciation, who will be able to afford it in 20 years? Only the rich? Isn't that how it started out, will it have come full circle?

Posted by bigjim-CA 2010-05-30 20:58|| 2010-05-30 20:58|| Front Page Top

#41 "EC, I've got an even better suggestion - do what we did and SAVE as much money as possible, from early childhood. Of course, that requires responsible parent(s)."

Well I think it wouldn't be fair to students who didn't have responsible parents.

Ms. Cortney certainly deserve a good part of the blame, but still I think that banks and college are in for more than a penny for allowing the situation to escalate.

Who else in this world without any assets could rack up a debt of 100000 dollars in 4 years?

Posted by European Conservative 2010-05-30 21:01|| 2010-05-30 21:01|| Front Page Top

#42 EC, Can anybody who wants to go to college in Germany, or do they still route people into vocational or academic tracks at 14?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-05-30 21:20|| 2010-05-30 21:20|| Front Page Top

#43 That depends on the respective "Land", but in any case you'd need the Abitur (high school degree) to enter university. In Bavaria the selection is made very early (some say too early) but its gymnasiums are better than in Northern Germany.

Actually the German Gymnasium would be more of a high school plus 2 college years (and is totally free).

Those who don't have the Abitur still have the possibility of the so-called Zweiter Bildungsweg. This is something of a free evening education which offers you the chance to obtain the Abitur as an adult. Then you can enter university like anyone else, even if you are 30, 40 or 95.

Posted by European Conservative 2010-05-30 21:30|| 2010-05-30 21:30|| Front Page Top

#44 Don't want debt to get a college degree -

The New Post-9/11 GI Bill offers a new set of benefits for servicemembers and veterans attending education and training programs taken at an accredited college or university. Post-9/11 benefit payments are tiered based on the amount creditable active-duty service you have since Sept. 10, 2001.

These new education benefits include the following:

* Up to 100% Tuition and Fee Coverage
* A Monthly Living (Housing) Stipend
* Up to $1000 a year for Books and Supplies
* A One Time Relocation Allowance
* The Option to Transfer Benefits to Family Members

It's amazing in all the discussions about costs that so many bury a means to pay. Wonder why? /rhet question

We won't even mention ROTC scholarships.

Posted by Procopius2k 2010-05-30 21:43|| 2010-05-30 21:43|| Front Page Top

#45 "Citibank gave Cortney Munna $40,000 in loans, though she had already amassed debt well into the five figures."

Yeah, Citibank was an idiot to make the loans under those conditions, but Ms. Cortney was a BIGGER idiot to run up that kind of debt to begin with before even getting into college.

The smallest "5-figure" debt possible is $10,000 (and I'll bet it was more in her case).

I'm searching for my nano-violin. Really, I am. ~~(But not too hard.)~~

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-05-30 22:54|| 2010-05-30 22:54|| Front Page Top

#46 European Conservative has a point that it's easy to miss, given that Ms. Munna and her ilk are so very obviously open to criticism. We need plumbers, electricians, teachers, engineers. But as a society we also need to know our history, be able to reason and write clearly etc. In other words, in addition to job training we need education.

Easy to overlook that, given the way in which the humanities and even sciences have been politicized and gutted in the last few decades. But true nonetheless. That was the rationale for free public schooling when a high school education was rare: that in a democracy where all adult citizens can vote, they had better know something about the country, the world and history before doing so.

Full disclosure: I took my Bachelor's degree from an expensive and excellent liberal arts degree. Blue collar family, so it took loans, scholarships and multiple jobs while in school to do it but am glad I did. Worked during and paid for my advanced degrees myself.

Posted by lotp 2010-05-30 23:11|| 2010-05-30 23:11|| Front Page Top

#47 We do not have too many liberal arts grads, but we do have too many PRIVATE COLLEGE liberal arts grads with $100k in debt or more.

As to the state schools, we do not have too many grads, but we do have too many state school dropouts who never should have been admitted to college in the first place. These people-- maybe a third or more of admits in to state schools-- should have been steered into vocational programs to learn a trade.

We need more, and earlier, vocational tracking. And fewer second-rate country-club style private colleges. Other than that, the system's fine. Best in the world, actually. Ain't broke, don't fix.

Posted by lex 2010-05-30 23:19|| 2010-05-30 23:19|| Front Page Top

#48 "It would take a heap of savings to do that today."

Yes, it would, bigjim. But it appears to me they don't try to save even part of what they'll need for college.

I've actually suggested to people that they save for college, and gotten a whiny "it's impossible to save that much" in response. Maybe so, but what about part of it? Didn't they ever hear of a down payment? (Considering the "trend" in the past few years regarding house-buying, probably not - and look where that got us).

Colleges have raised their prices too much - way above inflation. It needs to stop, and even reverse. We need to get back to encouraging people to go to trade school - where they'll learn something that will earn them one hell of a lot more than a "-- Studies" degree will.

And generally, people need to stop believing there's some Magic Government Money Tree™ that has nothing to do with the amount of money that is confiscated from them for taxes.

In fact, I'd be happy if the government stopped believing in that Tree. >:-(

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-05-30 23:30|| 2010-05-30 23:30|| Front Page Top

#49 Colleges have raised their prices too much - way above inflation. It needs to stop, and even reverse.

There's an inversion at play here: the more expensive the school, the more desirable it seems. No relationship between price and quality. And this is largely because of student aid. The more aid that's provided, the higher the tuition increases.

Easy solution: cut back on student aid. Then public colleges will become vastly cheaper than private schools, and hard-pressed (formerly upper-middle class) middle class families will conclude that applying to second-tier private schools makes no sense. Those schools will wither, the supply of college grads will shrink, the selectivity and quality of public colleges will rise, and the marginal public college admits will fall off, prompting a greater increase in vocational ed.

All good and necessary changes. Means-test all student aid, and let a thousand flowers bloom.

Posted by lex 2010-05-31 00:00|| 2010-05-31 00:00|| Front Page Top

00:00 lex
23:56 Poison Reverse
23:55 Pappy
23:44 JosephMendiola
23:35 Frangipani
23:30 Barbara Skolaut
23:22 Frank G
23:19 lex
23:11 lotp
23:07 gorb
22:56 Mike
22:54 Barbara Skolaut
22:47 Mike Hunt
21:43 Procopius2k
21:41 Slurt Dark Lord of the Hatfields1866
21:32 Spot
21:30 European Conservative
21:20 Nimble Spemble
21:01 European Conservative
20:58 bigjim-CA
20:57 Barbara Skolaut
20:47 Barbara Skolaut
20:33 Deacon Blues
20:32 Barbara Skolaut