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2010-04-22 -Signs, Portents, and the Weather-
Why More U.S. Expatriates Are Turning In Their Passports
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Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2010-04-22 03:58|| || Front Page|| [11129 views ]  Top

#1 the U.S. is the only industrialized nation that taxes its overseas citizens, subjecting them to taxation in both their country of citizenship and country of residence.

Nope. Australia just started doing this about six months ago. It was big news. I'm not surprised the insular bigots at Time magazine never heard of it.
Posted by gromky 2010-04-22 04:11||   2010-04-22 04:11|| Front Page Top

#2 Tax exile existed in England 40 or so years ago, it can happen anywhere. Going Galt really does happen.

Public sector types never learn.
Posted by no mo uro 2010-04-22 05:58||   2010-04-22 05:58|| Front Page Top

#3 Finally time to declare eh? A bit more to being an American than a phueching tax advantage. Whores the lot. Pi** on them. Good riddance!
Posted by Besoeker 2010-04-22 07:36||   2010-04-22 07:36|| Front Page Top

#4 Besoeker,
Whores they may be, but they are also 'canaries in the coal mine.'
Posted by Glenmore 2010-04-22 07:44||   2010-04-22 07:44|| Front Page Top

#5 Good point Glenmore. I've just never cared much for the duely passport crowd. Few of them are US military pensioners I can assure you. Harkens back to those who slipped across the border to Canada back in the 1960's. Of course Barry could end all of this madness by granting them all tax amnesty (call it 'Foreign Earned Income Tax Credit') in exchange for the obvious commitment of lifetime Democratic absentee voting.
Posted by Besoeker 2010-04-22 07:59||   2010-04-22 07:59|| Front Page Top

#6 Besoeker, I get where you're coming from, but how American can you live when you're existing in a high-tax, hyperregulatory society whose government mocks authentic American values? Should they stay here and watch their government not only take their money, but also demonize them and their beliefs and values using the propaganda organs of the MSM and NPR/PBS and uses the apparatus of state to relieve them of property and liberty - or do they leave for a bit until things turn around because they have the means, knowing that there's a good chance things will change to something more favorable at some future date?

Are you simply angry because you (like most of us) don't have the means, financially or otherwise, to go somewhere else to ride out the storm?

Isn't being an American, a REAL American, awfully difficult in postmodern, Obama-soaked times? I think you agree that it is. Leaving is running away in your mind. In their minds it is simply a logical response to remove themselves from a bad situation. I think the truth is that their move away is a little bit of both.

It may be that these guys are motivated purely by money. If so, it's their right, though like you I may not respect them. Are there other reasons they're leaving that have to do with things other than money? Then I'm not sure. Stay and fight is certainly a noble notion, but the options aren't necessarily evil.

Posted by no mo uro 2010-04-22 08:10||   2010-04-22 08:10|| Front Page Top

#7 Are you simply angry because you (like most of us) don't have the means, financially or otherwise, to go somewhere else to ride out the storm?

Angry yep. Onset of anger came in Nov 2008 as I recall. Didn't take a political scientist to see all of this coming. You leave, the communist bastards WIN! Good men died to keep this country free, a lot of them. My kids are here slugging it out in the work place. I'll be burried here, up at Cherokee probably. 775 beautiful acres. You can visit me there. I just hope and pray I live long enough to piss on the communist bastard's grave. Probably won't, but I can encourage others.
Posted by Besoeker 2010-04-22 08:26||   2010-04-22 08:26|| Front Page Top

#8 However, they'll still be registered to vote in 57 states. /sarc off or not
Posted by Procopius2k 2010-04-22 08:34||   2010-04-22 08:34|| Front Page Top

#9 They didn't leave America. America left them. Far left.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-04-22 09:01||   2010-04-22 09:01|| Front Page Top

#10 the new surge in permanent expatriations is mainly because of taxes.

by relinquishing their U.S. citizenship, expats can not only escape the financial burden of double taxation, but also strengthen the U.S. economy, he says, adding, "It will become much easier for these people to get a job abroad, and to set up, own and operate private companies that can promote American exports."

The Golden Goose gets a double croak!

I wonder how bad things would have to get before many would consider going somewhere else? Before things got so bad one would consider leaving, I would anticipate many in this would search out other alternatives within the country, e.g. voting in 2010. If that didn't not change the political landscape many would consider legal avenues such as are going on now, i.e. the states suing the federal government, taxpayer lawsuits, etc. If that didn't work, one can only imagine some of the things that might happen from civil disobedience to increasing violence.
Posted by JohnQC 2010-04-22 09:16||   2010-04-22 09:16|| Front Page Top

#11 anticipate many in country this would
Posted by JohnQC 2010-04-22 09:19||   2010-04-22 09:19|| Front Page Top

#12 I agree American citizenship is very valuable and the privileges should only extend to those holding it. Most ex-pats I know relocated because of employment opportunities not available here and it is not likely to look up anytime soon. I guess if struggling to eat, it could be tempting to give up, but it is the benefits the taxpayers are supplying to illegals that burns me. It is the Soros' of the bunch that avoid paying their taxes altogether using offshore accounts, while advocating global taxes to add to the burden of the rest of us peons. It is the inequitable application of law at the heart of the problem but that is unlikely to look up anytime soon, either.
Posted by Lumpy Elmoluck5091 2010-04-22 09:20||   2010-04-22 09:20|| Front Page Top

#13 Having difficulty with my typing this a.m., sorry.
Posted by JohnQC 2010-04-22 09:20||   2010-04-22 09:20|| Front Page Top

#14 I hold not animosity toward these people. I'll be retired from the mil within the next decade...after that and, barring a war I would feel little loyalty to a people that continually vote in socialists and fools. If there was another country that had sanity level taxes, respect for gun owners, free speech and a decent level of safety I might be tempted to take the family and go to...however, I've not seen a place like that yet. In the end, I didn't leave America, America left me.
Posted by Broadhead6 2010-04-22 09:33||   2010-04-22 09:33|| Front Page Top

#15 or, the third way is for either voting out all the socialists or having an article 5 constitutional convention and having the states re-assert their sovereignty over those issues that are strictly in their domain. If not, maybe a true tax revolution ought to occur w/mass amounts of folks going gault. Or, finally, armed citizens may have to persuade tryanical lawmakers to leave office or be tarred/feathered.
Posted by Broadhead6 2010-04-22 09:35||   2010-04-22 09:35|| Front Page Top

#16  If there was another country that had sanity level taxes, respect for gun owners, free speech and a decent level of safety I might be tempted to take the family and go to

If you go, be prepared to say goodbye to your military pension Broadhead6.
Posted by Besoeker 2010-04-22 09:36||   2010-04-22 09:36|| Front Page Top

#17 tyrannical, sorry.
Posted by Broadhead6 2010-04-22 09:36||   2010-04-22 09:36|| Front Page Top

#18 Beso, roger that, although I was never in it for the pension.
Posted by Broadhead6 2010-04-22 09:37||   2010-04-22 09:37|| Front Page Top

#19 Is there anywhere that they break it down further....as in citizen by birth vs. naturalized? I imagine it might be easier for a naturalized citizen to do this, since in many cases their original countries may still consider him/her one of theirs (like Russia does with the Tsar).
Posted by Cornsilk Blondie 2010-04-22 10:09||   2010-04-22 10:09|| Front Page Top

#20 Actually I've been wondering lately how much of US immigration policy over the last twenty years has been implemented to keep Russians from emigrating from Russia to the US, and saving Russia from the sort of brain-drain that would result. The elite's shifting of immigration to mainly being illiterate peons from Mexico not only causes problems here in and of itself, it crowds out immigration of _skilled_ labor, keeping them home and on the plantations of whatever Party runs their home country.

The "Former" Soviets don't have to worry too much about emigration to the West if the West has rewritten its immigration policy so that anyone who isn't an unskilled Mexican is basically SOL.

Just some paranoid thoughts upon this Thursday morn.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-04-22 10:21||   2010-04-22 10:21|| Front Page Top

#21 saving Russia from the sort of brain-drain. Thing From Snowy Mountain

More on "Russian brain drain" please.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-04-22 10:25||   2010-04-22 10:25|| Front Page Top

#22 On this side of the pond (same socialist gov tyrany)...

Last year, 207,000 British citizens - one every three minutes - left the country while 510,000 foreigners arrived to stay for a year or more.

The 207,000 contribute far more to social and economical cohesion than the half mill coming in .


Some lucky countries , namely NZ and Aus get the cream of our business types. Basically we are slowly been bled dry for short sighted gains and votes .
Posted by Oscar 2010-04-22 10:41||   2010-04-22 10:41|| Front Page Top

#23 Besoeker, not to speak for TFSM, but Russia is home to some of the most brilliant mathematicians and scientists in the world. And programmers. It's no coincidence that a large number of hackers come from Russia. Unfortunately, when your country's government is overrun with corruption, it's hard to make an honest living. So, the options are to leave the country for greener pastures or to turn to crime.
Posted by AllahHateMe 2010-04-22 10:58||   2010-04-22 10:58|| Front Page Top

#24 Thanks for the update Allah. Don't hear much about the mathematicisans or scientists here, just the hacker and criminals.
Posted by Besoeker 2010-04-22 11:32||   2010-04-22 11:32|| Front Page Top

#25 I favour a Single Land Value Tax (as does Adam Smith for those who wrongly accuse me of Marxism). It sorts out these sorts of problems.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2010-04-22 11:43||   2010-04-22 11:43|| Front Page Top

#26 Snowy's on target. For every well-educated manager, entrepreneur, engineer or financier America sends overseas, we import about 5x as many illiterate campesinos from Mexico and points south. Singapore/Hong Kong/E.Europe's etc gain is America's loss.

The consequences are seen only in retrospect, but they're staggering: we're essentially creaming off the educated and productive classes and replacing them with a 10-million strong second underclass.

For a glimpse of these consequences, look at California over the last 15 years. Millions of entrepreneurs, small business owners and college-educated professionals have left the state for more lower-tax, less expensive locales in TX, UT etc., and millions of illiterate and semi-literate campesinos have moved into CA during the same period. The state has gone from fiscal health to bankruptcy. The public schools have gone from best in the nation to worst-- almost entirely due to the impact of 75%+ failure rates for the now-majority hispanic/latino student population. Over 90 emergency rooms have closed in LA alone, the prisons are overflowing etc etc.

The Mexification of America. Coming to your town soon.
Posted by lex 2010-04-22 11:51||   2010-04-22 11:51|| Front Page Top

#27 In order to have _regular_ access (and soon to be any access at all) to low earth orbit, NASA is reliant on a Russian-built booster whose first version was built during Khruschev's tenure.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-04-22 11:56||   2010-04-22 11:56|| Front Page Top

#28 A. Doubt Bammo gives a rats ass. He'd probably just as soon replace those numbers 100 fold with an illegal amnesty here.

B. Used to work with a woman who did this. Left the US for the UK due to defaulted student loans. The way she saw it, she had no choice.

C. Am a little curious why these folks bother renouncing their US citizenship. You'd think most of them could easily avoid the double tax problem by hiding foreign income. In fact, I'd guess that for every 1 turning in his passport there are at least 100 more who just aren't playing by the rules.
Posted by Iblis 2010-04-22 11:57||   2010-04-22 11:57|| Front Page Top

#29 Mexification = feature, not bug, of the Dems' "Emerging Majority" strategy (cf Ruy Texeira's book by the same name). Hollow out the middle and upper-middle classes, shovel favors to labor aristocrats like the UAW and latino-heavy public sector unions like SEIU, and coddle the oligarchs at Goldman and across Wall Street. The left-wing Dem strategy is to attain electoral dominance by making US society resemble Latin America: a struggling and shrinking middle class squeezed between huge, left-wing, powerful public sector unions; a swelling and permanently dependent underclass; and corrupt oligarchs who supply money and favors to the political class.

On that last point, cf Rahm Emanuel's multi-million $$$$$$ gig for Wasserstein Perella pimping the Clinton White House donor list in 1999-2001, or Gore's sweetheart deals with DoE for his ludicrous electric car startup, or the former White House counsel who's now whoring for Goldman as its Skadden Arps counselor, or....

Latin America North, that's us.
Posted by lex 2010-04-22 12:00||   2010-04-22 12:00|| Front Page Top

#30 You'd think most of them could easily avoid the double tax problem by hiding foreign income. lblis

USG is attempting to tighten up the foreign income thing. I don't think they'll be very successful. Not a sympathetic audience to say the least. Rules are different in Europe. No rules in Africa, LA, or the ME, just who do you pay off and how often. The underground economy IS the economy in many parts of the world.
Posted by Besoeker 2010-04-22 12:07||   2010-04-22 12:07|| Front Page Top

#31 As concerns America's still-dominant news organ, it's Mexification in the literal sense: Carlos Slim, the Mexican thief who wangled control of Mexico's monopoly phone provider and has milked it for billions (the man's richer than Buffett or Gates), is now the dominant shareholder in the New York Times.

Wonder how our political class really feels about the (increasingly likely) prospect that first our media organizations and then increasing chunks of our financial and industrial concerns will be owned by or dominated by foreign oligarchs ....

My guess is that they'll figure out a way to get kickbacks for themselves and their spawn, and gladly barter some political influence for continued campaign contributions and favorable regulations to our new oligarchic overlords.

The period between 1980 and 2000 was dominated by increasing democracy and expanding free markets.

The period 2010-2030 will be characterized by diminished democracy and increasing consolidation of power by financial-political elites. The Age of Oligarchy is upon us.
Posted by lex 2010-04-22 12:12||   2010-04-22 12:12|| Front Page Top

#32 US expats will shift money out of the Swiss etc financial institutions targeted by the IRS and into real assets like overseas property and perhaps gold. The investor Jim Rogers, now permanently ensconced with his family in Singapore, is on record as predicting hyperinflation and a commodities boom. He recommends purchasing undervalued farmland.

If we go back to the 1970s, then property, especially undervalued overseas property in E Europe and SE Asia is probably where much of the expats' wealth will flow.

More and more US retirees will follow suit and relocate abroad. Eventually, the nation will consist of a tiny oligarchic class at the top, an enormous public sector class, and a large and dependent underclass, with a small, aging and shrinking middle class that's increasingly squeezed by high inflation and high taxes.

This is the latin model to perfection. Habla oligarco?
Posted by lex 2010-04-22 12:18||   2010-04-22 12:18|| Front Page Top

#33 Some lucky countries , namely NZ and Aus get the cream of our business types.

I did some cursory checking. I think there are age restrictions in NZ. Can't be too old. However, like the U.S., if you have enough money you can buy your way in. If someone knows differently from NZ let me know. You give up a lot of basic rights that we have here if you give up citizenship.
Posted by JohnQC 2010-04-22 12:36||   2010-04-22 12:36|| Front Page Top

#34 I lived overseas for a few years and never had to pay a cent of income tax earned overseas, it was all exempt by law. That might not be the case if you earn $100,000/year or more, but I've never had that kind of problem. And if you make that much money yet can't stand to pay your share in taxes, I think there are other problems that need to be addressed.
Posted by Scooter McGruder 2010-04-22 12:53||   2010-04-22 12:53|| Front Page Top

#35 I have no problem with them immigrating to other countries. I do have a problem when the next natural or man-made disaster strikes the place and their faces are in the crowd wanting to get on the mil evac of US citizens out of the place. Show them the door off the chopper or the side of the boat. You made your decision, live with it.
Posted by Procopius2k 2010-04-22 13:40||   2010-04-22 13:40|| Front Page Top

#36 And if you make that much money yet can't stand to pay your share in taxes, I think there are other problems that need to be addressed.

Different businesses, different models, Scooter. When Mr. Wife's corporation sent us to Germany, he got a normalized net salary plus a cost of living allowance that was supposed to give us a lifestyle somewhat comparable to what we would be leaving behind. What this meant was that we never did discover what Mr. Wife's gross salary was in Deutschmarks, and later Belgian francs, as they were then. The net was paid directly from the home office into our American bank account in dollars, which we then transferred over to our German bank account for paying our bills in DM/BF; we paid a base amount toward housing rental, the company paid a fixed amount in addition toward what they decided was a fair rent for an employee of Mr. Wife's level and experience, and we paid the balance due for a house half the size of what we'd lived in back home, and likewise for utilities, water and sewage; upcharges vs. the U.S. for telephone and other things we absorbed.

The bottom line was that Mr. Wife's gross salary, on paper, was well over the limit for taxation in the U.S., and all of it was subject to taxation in Germany, in theory anyway. In practice, Germany has been working since 1946 to determine how the salaries of American expats will be taxed, and has not yet made a determination. The company paid Deloitte & Touche to calculate our taxes while we were abroad, each year producing for us a binder a full two inches thick; we did not find out what Mr. Wife's putative gross salary was for the previous year until the taxes had been calculated, as it had to be adjusted to account for the actual taxes we and the corporation actually paid. Deloitte & Touche continued doing our taxes on the company dime for another five years after we moved back home, as they needed to recalculate both putative gross salaries and taxes due for the years we'd been abroad based on accrued tax credits for whatever and a variety of other factors to arcane to explain to us. To tell you the truth, not only don't I have a clue what that was all about, but even Mr. Wife, who spends a great deal of time these days writing and reviewing contracts, did little more than check to see that the net salary matched his W-2, then signed where he was told.

Most American expats whose companies provide any sort of lifestyle support find themselves well over the taxable limit, on paper at least.
Posted by trailing wife 2010-04-22 13:55||   2010-04-22 13:55|| Front Page Top

#37 I think the voters here are just going to have to fix things and keep at it so it doesn't drift out of control in Washington, i.e. keep after the politicians. Excercise the term limit option by dumping all politicians after two terms.
Posted by JohnQC 2010-04-22 14:23||   2010-04-22 14:23|| Front Page Top

#38 IIRC the taxable threshold now stands at about $82k per year. Nearly all expats working in for-profit enterprises overseas have salaries north of that threshold. Some receive packages that include their kids' tuition at the local Anglo-American or American School, plus maid and driver; many do not. They do not consume any US governmental services except in extremely rare emergencies, and yet they contribute hugely to the country's positive image overseas in view of the fact that they and the companies that employ them are almost always appreciated by the locals because of their *far* higher standards - compared to local firms - of professionalism, ethical conduct, taxes paid locally etc.

The lefties revile McDonalds here, but in places like Russia, McDonalds has made an enormous contribution across the board, from elevating standards of service and cleanliness in eateries to spending many millions in local foodstock purchases to thousands of relatively high-paying and far more stable jobs to millions in taxes paid. All of this is in stark contrast to the abysmal standards, sh*t wages, tax evasion, and outright criminality of their local counterparts.

If you make it hard for expatriates to live abroad, then you will over time erase a hugely positive overseas contribution made by Americans. I'm sure Barry just views this as another pinata to be smashed and grabbed from, but the rest of us should view this as a dangerous game for very little revenue upside.
Posted by lex 2010-04-22 14:43||   2010-04-22 14:43|| Front Page Top

#39 Another symptom of the diminished power of the nation state in a globalized economy. If China explodes, we may see a retreat back to the nation state. But if they continue to expand peacefully, there will be continued erosion of state power as lex's oligarchs play nation against nation the same way they used to play play state against state in the US.

As for me, Costa Rico looks interesting.

Interesting times.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-04-22 14:55||   2010-04-22 14:55|| Front Page Top

#40 Y'all's idea of the expat with a relocation package, schools paid for, etc - that's 20th century thinking. The expat packages are a thing of the past. They still exist, but for rich fucks like bankers and CEOs.

The new trend is the "half-pat", people who relocate abroad of their own initiative, such as myself.

"Halfpats are not an official job classification, just a collective term for people that go to another country to work on their own initiative, rather than being sent by their firms. They come as tourists or students, then stay as workers, sometimes for years. On the other hand, the classic expatriate, in China and elsewhere, is typically an older executive at the managerial level dispatched on a limited-term assignment from the headquarters to an office abroad."

Click through to some of these links for details.
Posted by gromky 2010-04-22 15:53||   2010-04-22 15:53|| Front Page Top

#41 Half-pats are nothing new, gromky. Mr. Wife used to drink with a bunch of British ones when he was working in Athens back in the late '80s. There have long been those with ability and a need for adventure, but who aren't willing to become full-blown emigrants. Early in the 20th century they went to Africa and Argentina, since the fall of the Berlin Wall they've gone mainly to China and the former Communist countries.

As for transfer package expats, at Mr. Wife's company most of them are mere middle managers, not rich fucks. I've two friends in exactly that position who recently came back, one from Beijing and the other from Guangzho. Our senior managers haven't taken transfers since the '80s; they just spend a lot of time on airplanes, going round the world -- shoot, in his last assignment Mr. Wife went around the world once a quarter to meet with his various groups, and he is definitely a mere middle manager. Between his current assignment and the current economy, he is much more likely to have phone conferences at 7 a.m. or 11 p.m., but I know that soon enough he'll have to get on an airplane again.
Posted by trailing wife 2010-04-22 17:57||   2010-04-22 17:57|| Front Page Top

#42 The attachment to this country many of your are showing is down right touching.

If it's about your damn money then listen to your inner Soros and get fucking lost. Rest of 'ye tough it out.
Posted by Shipman 2010-04-22 18:31||   2010-04-22 18:31|| Front Page Top

#43 Shipman,
double taxation is bullsh*t.
If you make a buck in Timbuktu, you should pay a tax on it there. Not there and here.
Posted by bigjim-CA 2010-04-22 20:34||   2010-04-22 20:34|| Front Page Top

#44 Our Founders started a revolution over a 5% tax increase. I can only guess at what they must think of the current crop of fools in power and those that set them there. I don't need to defend my attachment to the country - that has already been proven through an adult life spent defending it (actually I defend the Constitution and take that oath deadly serious) & I highly doubt that for most it's about money. For me it's not. 47% of the citizenry pay no income tax yet can vote on the rights & freedom of others. At some point Atlas shrugs. I have no problem with my fellow citizens going Galt if they so choose - Freedom means not only mobility, the ability to choose a lifestyle but more importantly the ability to be Free Of something. Those expats that took off have no reason to explain themselves to me or apologize, even if it was over money. Independence and self-reliance is at the heart of being an American - even if that means leaving that which you love. My ancestors left from a few different countries over a 100 yrs ago - I wonder if their fellow Irish or Scots or Krauts called them greedy or traitors for wanting to leave their "homeland" in order to provide a better life for themselves or their families.
Posted by Broadhead6 2010-04-22 20:50||   2010-04-22 20:50|| Front Page Top

#45 Well said as usual Broadhead6.
Posted by Besoeker 2010-04-22 20:54||   2010-04-22 20:54|| Front Page Top

#46 Thanks Brother.
Posted by Broadhead6 2010-04-22 20:59||   2010-04-22 20:59|| Front Page Top

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