Article

2010-03-20 Down Under

UWA awards honorary degree to Obama adviser

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Posted by phil_b 2010-03-20 03:33|| || Front Page|| [11 views ] Top

#1 I should perhaps add,

There aren't to many African Australian professors of anything. In fact I'm pretty sure there are none. Which perhaps goes some way toward explaining the 'aren't we good leftists liberals awarding degree this to a succesful black American academic' tone of the press release.

Posted by phil_b 2010-03-20 03:55|| 2010-03-20 03:55|| Front Page Top

#2 Guilt based "tokenism" remains one of the basic nucleonic building blocks of diversity and multiculturalim. Guiltless cultural conquest seldom permits the inclusion of the former majority however. Their day is done. I give you Zimbabwe and South Africa as thriving case studies.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-03-20 08:52|| 2010-03-20 08:52|| Front Page Top

#3 You're undoubtably right in principle, Besoeker, but you're WAY off base if you or phil_b think that Jim Gates is an affirmative action token.

His work on supersymmetry was ground breaking and his international stature in theoretical physics is well-earned. Those who lightly toss off charges of tokenism will be a bit more credible if they've made the same level of deep contributions to a very difficult science.

Posted by lotp 2010-03-20 16:32|| 2010-03-20 16:32|| Front Page Top

#4 Yes, yes, yes of course "way off base" and borderline racist. I know nothing of the Professor Gates. Gates the man however, is not the issue. Does it not seem a bit more than simply coincidental that this fellow is being recognized at approximately the same time Barry Soetoro was set to be visiting the region?

Posted by Besoeker 2010-03-20 16:43|| 2010-03-20 16:43|| Front Page Top

#5 This is the problem that is inherent in 'affirmative action' - it diminishes the truly-earned accomplishments of members of the acted-upon group.

Posted by Glenmore 2010-03-20 17:23|| 2010-03-20 17:23|| Front Page Top

#6 Besoeker, IMO you're being a bit disingenuous. Your comment was very much a charge of tokenism WRT this scientist. Sure his race was one reason for this honor. But so were his achievements.

It's no different than the fact that the Costa Rican background of Franklin Chang Diaz is one reason that a lot of schools in the US and in Latin America invite him to speak - that and the fact that Diaz holds a PhD in applied plasma physics from MIT, was in space 7 times as a NASA astronaut (including 3 space walks), became Director of the Advanced Space Propulsion Laboratory at the Johnson Space Center and then retired to form his own company seeking to develop commercial plasma rocket propulsion systems for space flight.

Both men have earned significant respect as leaders in their fields. Both also serve as outstanding role models for young kids from similar backgrounds. You know, to encourage them to study, discipline themselves and go achieve as well. Which I at least find to be a Good Thing.

It's no mystery why each has been given honorary degrees from a variety of universities. Token my foot.

And if you wonder where my energy comes from on this topic, chalk it up to being aware just how little support there is for kids of all backgrounds in this country to excel in science. Double or triple that lack of support among blacks and hispanics. Being aware because I have taught at the university level. Being aware because I've joined others who are reaching out via the IEEE and similar professional societies to kids at the elementary, middle and high school level - and knowing that we're pushing against a culture more interested in pr0n on the Internet than in our economic future.

We really could, you know, use every good scientist and engineer we can produce. For little things like trying to regain competitiveness in a global economy against rising China and India.

To take a small example .....

[/ personal rant]

Posted by lotp 2010-03-20 18:23|| 2010-03-20 18:23|| Front Page Top

#7 We really could, you know, kind of use every good scientist and engineer we can produce.

interesting you should say that. I have sat on interview panels. I expect engineers to have certain skills. I don't give a rat's ass what race they appear (or claim on their census form). Race, culture, or gender should have nothing to do with it, but it does, don't even try to tell me otherwise. I've seen too many "lessers" selected over panel suggestions for "diversity" reasons. Now, it appears your individuals have the quals and creds to be honored, so I wouldn't disparage them, but the "diversity 'thumb-on-the-scale'" is real and bad for everyone

Posted by Frank G 2010-03-20 18:57|| 2010-03-20 18:57|| Front Page Top

#8 And if you wonder where my energy comes from on this topic, chalk it up to being aware just how little support there is for kids of all backgrounds in this country to excel in science. Double or triple that lack of support among blacks and hispanics.

"Support" (or a swift kick in the arss) begins AT HOME! You have a home, a drug free home? A father live there as well? Does he have a job? Does he provide for the family and set a good example? If you said NO to any of these things then you've got a bloody uphill climb ahead and you'd better get snapping! Genuinely sucks to be born into a culture of failure, dependence, drugs, tribal polygamy and whoring does it not? Furthermore, not my phueching problem, I paid my taxes and hit the offering plate. Now get off my PROPERTY!

Posted by Besoeker 2010-03-20 19:05|| 2010-03-20 19:05|| Front Page Top

#9 Actually, Besoeker, if you are a taxpayer, or plan to draw on Social Security, or have investments then it it indeed your problem too.

We really truly are in far worse shape competitively than most Americans seem to assume.

Without energetic, bright engineers and scientists we haven't a hope in hell of digging out of the debt we're in, even if we manage to drive a stake through the heart of Obamacare. Along with the political careers of Congress critters and white house hangers on who are promoting it.

Posted by lotp 2010-03-20 19:19|| 2010-03-20 19:19|| Front Page Top

#10 Or maybe you're so committed to your disdain

"Maybe" bloody'ell! I not only disdain it, I hate it and all it's societal trappings with every fibre of my being! "Counterproductive" you say? I would guess as much, as we watch our kith and kin suffer Soetoro's wealth redisto plan and watch the republic crumble. Forgive my passion good lady.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-03-20 19:33|| 2010-03-20 19:33|| Front Page Top

#11 A very wise man told me some 40 years ago not to plan on Social Security, so I have not. They can shove it!

Posted by Besoeker 2010-03-20 19:36|| 2010-03-20 19:36|| Front Page Top

#12 what lotp said. If we can't find a way to get chicano kids especially succeeding in math and science and pursuing advanced STEM careers, we're fooked. California's public school population is now >50% hispanic, a % that's rising every year.

I'm firmly against aff action but we've got to find some way to get these kids succeeding. Holding up truly distinguished scientists as role models seems like an insufficient but absolutely necessary requirement.

Posted by lex 2010-03-20 19:38|| 2010-03-20 19:38|| Front Page Top

#13 About 30 years too late Lex. I went to night school to get my MA. Guess who could be found in the University library late into each evening? Oriental students, the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Cambodes and old buggers like me who didn't own a computer. Want to venture a guess as to why the oriental students were in there? Yep, that's it...parential discipline and self pride!

Posted by Besoeker 2010-03-20 19:48|| 2010-03-20 19:48|| Front Page Top

#14 but you're WAY off base if you or phil_b think that Jim Gates is an affirmative action token

I thought I made it clear my comments weren't about Professor Gates himself, but rather about the University of Western Australia.

Posted by phil_b 2010-03-20 20:17|| 2010-03-20 20:17|| Front Page Top

#15 My apologies if I misread your comment, phil. It wasn't my intent to attack either you or Besoeker. It just drives me nuts when I think I hear people on the one hand denounce tokenism / affirmative action and on the other hand fail to acknowledge clear excellence on the part of individuals who fall into various minority categories.

I'll check my assumptions when I think I'm reading that here. And if I've read wrong, please do correct me. It's the sort of situation in which I'm happy to find out I was mistaken.

Posted by lotp 2010-03-20 21:40|| 2010-03-20 21:40|| Front Page Top

23:31 BigEd
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