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2010-02-18 Home Front: Politix

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Posted by Fred 2010-02-18 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11126 views ] Top

#1 I picked a side, and I won't vote for any incumbents for many years.

Posted by Destro_in_Panama 2010-02-18 01:09|| 2010-02-18 01:09|| Front Page Top

#2 And the Left sees Sarah as a soccer mom incompetent drooling fool. yeah?

Good Luck with that and Suckahotchie. Barry is gonna try to run but who wants him? And what's THAT gonna get you?

She doesnt stand a chance, right?

I love this system, its better than Pong.

Posted by Prance 2010-02-18 06:40|| 2010-02-18 06:40|| Front Page Top

#3 We're picking a side. Push better primary candidates. Then pick the less bad of those in the general, regardless of party. Work into local party delegates etc., in either party. I have a copy of Heinlein's handbook around here somewhere.

Posted by Glenmore 2010-02-18 07:30|| 2010-02-18 07:30|| Front Page Top

#4 Glenmore, you have it right. It's really pretty simple:

1) The GOP is much more friendly to the concepts supported by the Tea Party than the Dems.

2) The members of the GOP that believe in the good ole boy trough slurping (eg John McCain) need to be beaten severely in the primaries.

3) Then in the general vote for the one closest to believing in smaller, cheaper gov't. which MIGHT actually be the Dem if the primary didn't work out.

4) Lay the heck off the social issues!

Posted by AlanC 2010-02-18 07:58|| 2010-02-18 07:58|| Front Page Top

#5 I picked a side a long time ago Governor -- It's called the The Constitution of the United States.

If I think a particular party's candidate can best uphold its original intent of limited self-government and those mandates in the way it was meant to be held will get my vote. I could give a rat's ass what party they belong to. Of late that party has been the GOP but not by a whole lot. The Tea Party doesn't need to be a wing of the GOP - if the GOP does what it is supposed to based on it's "supposed" core principles then they have nothing to fear from us Tea Partiers in fact, they will be benefitted by us...if they pull a mccain or trent lott - then yeah, go fuck off and rightly so. BTW - I think SP is one awesome lady in every respect but I'm suspect on this move.

Posted by Broadhead6 2010-02-18 09:34|| 2010-02-18 09:34|| Front Page Top

#6 I'm with Broadhead, though I'm pragmatic enough (as in my arguments with Bill Quick) to vote the way Glenmore suggests.

As Bill Buckley once noted: I'll vote for the most conservative candidate electable. Sometimes that means voting for a RINO, in which case I'll hold my nose and do it.

But I want the pols to uphold the meaning of the Constitution: the government has a defined place in our lives, and that's not every place. It works for us. It has a job. Focus on that job and leave everything else alone. Candidates who understand that get my vote and my money.

Posted by Steve White 2010-02-18 09:43|| 2010-02-18 09:43|| Front Page Top

#7 I think it's the republican party that needs to pick a side.

Conservative or Corporatist.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2010-02-18 10:37|| 2010-02-18 10:37|| Front Page Top

#8 the tea party movement seems very fractionalized at this point, she represents one aspect of it from what I can tell. I'm with Ron Paul and his version of the "Tea Party". Political concern and patriotism are whats needed though so every little bit helps, best to keep her speaking to the "people" through the Fox news network rather than through the executive branch of the USA, me thinks......just sayin

Posted by 746 2010-02-18 10:39|| 2010-02-18 10:39|| Front Page Top

#9 Palin is wrong in this, because neither political party can do anything about this current mess. However, at the State level, these issues are starting to be addressed, in a *bipartisan* way.

In other words, this isn't a Republican-Democrat thing, this is a national government-State governments thing. The national government has too much power, and it is up to the States to reduce that power.

Not revolution but reformation. A return to constitutional principles.

Right now, the 10th Amendment movement is strong, but needs to move to the next level: State delegations traveling around to discuss and debate with other State delegations what must be done, and how to do it.

Posted by Anonymoose 2010-02-18 10:39|| 2010-02-18 10:39|| Front Page Top

#10 Y'know, I voted for Ron Paul back in '88, and for the next libertarian candidate back in '92. It didn't result in libertarian policies or any sort of rollback in government.

Now the '94 election, OTOH...

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-02-18 10:57|| 2010-02-18 10:57|| Front Page Top

#11 Since I am not an American you could tell me to mind my business but I will still give you an advice; Stop whining.

You have a wonderful system, one who is a thousand times more democractic than anything they have in Europe and that because you have thing called primaries so you can mold the parties to your tastes. It is not like in Europe where your betters decide what is good for you and you are asked to eat their dog food. Don't dream about a third party: in Europe they have plenty of them and they still don't have democracy (that is not elections but power of the people). Besides like for Ross Perot it would only handle victory to the Party who is soft against jihadists. Instead go to primaries and vote. I have seen too many people complain about RINOs, about GOP not being conservative but did they bother to vote in the primaries? If you did and your candidate was defeated then OK you may be angry but if all you did was seep beers in front of your TV watching liberal sitcoms then you have only you to blame if Obama's Republican successor is a second McCain or your representative is a RINO.

Posted by JFM 2010-02-18 11:19|| 2010-02-18 11:19|| Front Page Top

#12 thank you JFM. That says it very well.

Please don't tout the Ron Paul nut jobs. This is as 'moose points out a case of too much Fed Gov taking away Sovereignty from the States. HOWEVER, it is very much in the power of the two parties to gain control of the Fed Gov and butt out of the many issues that should be the purview of the States.

The one thing that gives the FG so much power is the unlimited access to money. The states can't coin their own currency so they can't run the kind of deficits we see here without the devil coming due.

There are any number of issues that are important but the key one right now is to rein-in the spending machine. Concentrate on that and the natural necessity of defense and let the rest of it go back to the states.

Posted by AlanC 2010-02-18 11:28|| 2010-02-18 11:28|| Front Page Top

#13 She's right. All the talk about third parties may be emotionally satisfying, but if you want to actually have something to say about who gets elected, you need to engage in the primaries. Register. Volunteer. Show up -- 90% of it is showing up!

The other thing is: keep at it. It's a long march, not a commando raid. There's always the next election cycle.

Finally: as Reagan once said, someone who agrees with you on 80% of the issues is not 20% your enemy. Let the lefties burn heretics for their insufficient purity; I'm out to win converts.

Posted by Mike 2010-02-18 11:29|| 2010-02-18 11:29|| Front Page Top

#14 Since I am not an American you could tell me to mind my business but I will still give you an advice; Stop whining.

JFM, your comments are always thoughtful and often thought-provoking. And always welcome here, whatever the subject.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-02-18 11:33|| 2010-02-18 11:33|| Front Page Top

#15 JFM is right. Let's quit whining. There's no reason Tea Party folks can't take over the parties (esp. the GOP) at the local level. Find 'em, support 'em, and vote for 'em. And to hell with that "idealogical purity" crap. I don't expect anyone to agree with me on everything, but I would like them to agree with me on the essential things, which starts with the Constitution (as BH6 would say).

Posted by Spot 2010-02-18 11:56|| 2010-02-18 11:56|| Front Page Top

#16 Thank you TW and Alan C.

When I see people talk of a third party or some fringe candidate like Ron Paul I remember that the implosion of the Whigs led to eight years of Democratic administrations and to, through nominations of pro-slavery SCOTUS judges to teh Dredd Scott sentence who opened the way for forcing lmeagalization of slavery in the North. Ie by the time the third party picks up steam the red star would be floating on the WH and/or USA be renamed US of Americanistan.

Now I will explain what happens in European countries with proportional systems (ie most).

You get to select one of several lists of people. These lists were made by a few party big cheeses and depending on the position in the list some people are either sure to be elcted or surte not to be elected. So for one side the party leaders have complete control over the representatives so these listen more to waht the leaders order thelm athan to the people. And for another side if he is on position two or three of a party who is expected to get 50 representatives even a known pedophile will be elected without the people being able to do anything about it.

Also government is formed through negotiations between the parties completely behind of the people. Now you could think that the party who got a known pedophile elected would suffer consequences isn't it? WRONG! Lety's consider three parties: two dominant ones alpha and beta, alpha being the biggest but neither of them being able to govern by itself and a smaller one Gamma. For one side it will be Gamma (ie the one who represents the lesser number of people) who will have the most influence over who will govern and wich policies will be implemented and for another side as long as it doesn't fall so low that the combo Beta+Gamma not superior to Alpha losing represntatives is irrelevant for either party. You can vote its opponents to your sake, you, your family, your friends and your dog, you will be unable to prevent the pedophile from being elected and you will be unable to do any harm to the party who did it.

That is why I tend to go ballistic when I see Americans complaining about their system or dreaming about third parties.

Posted by JFM 2010-02-18 12:19|| 2010-02-18 12:19|| Front Page Top

#17 Pick a side? I will as soon as one side comes to somethgin worthy of my full support.

The GOP is closest, but as long as Lindsey Graham, McStain, and other RINOs keep voting for bigger public spending, corporate favoritism/welfare, an opaque governing system, a damaged and convoluted tax system, intrusive laws, open borders and increased entitlements, they will not have my support.

Open and transparent government, smaller efficient government that does what it needs to do and NOTHING ELSE. Stop letting big business use government to stifle competition or bail out failed strategies (software patents for example, or the hideously overlong copyright laws, or healthcare mandates/regulations). Stop using tax policies as anything other than fund raising for the government programs. Stop earmarks. Stop pork. Stop pulling power to DC.

When the GOP starts doing that, and starts decreasing the size and scope and reach of government power, then and only then will you see people going there willingly.

Sarah, get the GOP to change. They need to earn our sanction, or go the way of the Whigs. Tell the Beltway RINOs and their blue blood hangers on that their time is up.

Or else face our wrath.

Posted by Beldar Threreling9726 2010-02-18 13:06|| 2010-02-18 13:06|| Front Page Top

#18 Sorry Sarah, they HAVE picked, the choice was NEITHER, and OTHER.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2010-02-18 14:42|| 2010-02-18 14:42|| Front Page Top

#19 Instead of a third party they need to talk about a Caucus. That is a group (from any party) that subscribes to the Tea-Party Ideals. Have someone write them up and try to get politicians to pledge to that. Who knows, if you get a significant enough number you might start to talk about a new party, but at this point it's just bravado.

Posted by rjschwarz 2010-02-18 15:18|| 2010-02-18 15:18|| Front Page Top

#20 Good idea RJ. Let's start with the GOP side because on this keystone issue I think that the Dems are hopeless.

Think what a "Teaparty Caucus" could do to the GOP? The bigger it gets the less clout the RINOs, of whom there will always be some, will have. And if push comes to shove the RINOs have to go Dem or go home. How do you think Specter's feeling about now?

Posted by AlanC 2010-02-18 15:56|| 2010-02-18 15:56|| Front Page Top

#21 Sorry Sarah, they HAVE picked, the choice was NEITHER, and OTHER.

And the result of everyone's "OTHER" pick in the 2008 election was President Barack Obama.

I guess the hope and change is working out better for you than it is for me.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-02-18 16:36|| 2010-02-18 16:36|| Front Page Top

#22 To ruin a misquote...

"The tree of financial sense has to be watered with the blood of taxpayers money from time to time..."

Looking at McCain, he'd have been just as bad IMHO.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2010-02-18 17:58|| 2010-02-18 17:58|| Front Page Top

#23 Excellent idea rj.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-02-18 18:08|| 2010-02-18 18:08|| Front Page Top

#24 Your advice is always welcome here, JFM.

After all, we never hesitate to express out opinions about other countries, do we? ;-p

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-02-18 18:26|| 2010-02-18 18:26|| Front Page Top

#25 Oops.

"out" = "our"

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-02-18 18:40|| 2010-02-18 18:40|| Front Page Top

23:48 rjschwarz
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