Article

2010-02-18 Europe

Greece loses EU voting power in blow to sovereignty

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Posted by Fred 2010-02-18 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11126 views ] Top

#1 Aris, how things are working out for you now?

Posted by twobyfour 2010-02-18 06:20|| 2010-02-18 06:20|| Front Page Top

#2 I've been predicting Greece's bankruptcy for a while now.

The way I see it Greece should be expelled from the European Union. Unfortunately I know of no procedure which would allow the EU to actually expel a member state, even one as corrupt and dishonest as Greece.

If by "you" you meant personally, thank for the personal interest, but I don't much care to discuss my personal life online.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2010-02-18 07:57|| 2010-02-18 07:57|| Front Page Top

#3 Nicely said, Aris. I hope you have found happiness and fulfillment in that undiscussed life.

Separately, this article reveals the diametrically opposite positions being taken by the major EU nations, which suggests no near-term rescue will take place. Greece's salvation will have to result from Greek efforts, and whether the Athenians can take the necessary Spartan approach is questionable.

/No doubt cliche' by now in press and commentary, but I only just thought of it, and am inordinately pleased with the whole thing.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-02-18 08:30|| 2010-02-18 08:30|| Front Page Top

#4 Aris, how things are working out for you now?

About as well as they are going to work out for us in a couple of years. With the Chinese and Japanese playing the part of the EU. Our best hope is how well they work together.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-02-18 09:28|| 2010-02-18 09:28|| Front Page Top

#5 it is the Action of Foreign companies like Siemens which corrupted for several years the Greek Public Financial system. It is so unfair that the Germans first make sure that their companies gain contracts in the public sector (see Athens airport, see olympic games), then Siemens makes payments to the two largest political parties to buy their silence, and when the Greek state is runing out of cash, it is the Germans who say "the Greek state is corrupted" O yeah? and who did that?

Posted by Caesar Unoper6700 2010-02-18 10:29|| 2010-02-18 10:29|| Front Page Top

#6 [quote]"it is the Action of Foreign companies like Siemens which corrupted for several years the Greek Public Financial system."[/quote]

So utterly ludicrous. First of all if we're to blame external actors, the chief external corruptors have been social-fascist state actors like Russia (military deals about tanks and missiles, deals about gaspipes, etc) and China (who has already bought the port of Piraeus, and has been in secret deals to buy our railways or our national bank, or both).

Private capitalist corruptors like Siemens located in democratic nations are also eventually *exposed* and prosecuted by the authorities of those foreign nations. Not so with state-actors.

But that's a detail -- your whole post misses the bigger point that the corruption was a national choice. Both major Greek parties committed the fraud against the European Union -- all Greek parties chose to ignore parasitism and corruption in the state apparatus.

And most importantly all Greek parties practically WARRED on any actually productive forces of the nation -- which is actually an even bigger problem than corruption. They *chose* to drive away foreign investments, they *chose* to shut down mines and factories, they chose to support all that was most parasitic in society. They chose to make "public employee" a synonym for "lazy ass who doesn't actually work".

They chose to make "green development" a motto in order to destroy coal-based industry, and then they chose to oppose green industries also in favour of tourism, and then they opposed tourist development too. As they opposed all other development.

[quote]it is the Germans who say "the Greek state is corrupted" O yeah? and who did that?[/quote]

The Greeks did. They chose corruption (among other worse things). The people who want to be corrupt with always find a way to be so.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2010-02-18 11:04|| 2010-02-18 11:04|| Front Page Top

#7 Why, yes, I do believe the Greeks will go absolutely ape-shit.

Posted by mojo 2010-02-18 11:17|| 2010-02-18 11:17|| Front Page Top

#8 Aris, Both major Greek parties committed the fraud against the European Union -- all Greek parties chose to ignore parasitism and corruption in the state apparatus.

I suspected that much. However, I don't see EU structure as any different. It's parasiting on the member countries, on an entirely different level. Just my opinion, I know you probably don't agree.

Posted by twobyfour 2010-02-18 11:41|| 2010-02-18 11:41|| Front Page Top

#9 Both major ~~Greek~~ US parties committed the fraud

Now the question is, can we stop ours before it's too late?

Posted by AlanC 2010-02-18 15:43|| 2010-02-18 15:43|| Front Page Top

#10 It's already too late.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2010-02-18 20:46|| 2010-02-18 20:46|| Front Page Top

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