Article

2009-12-21 Afghanistan

Dirty Little Buried PC Problem Finally Out

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Posted by Procopius2k 2009-12-21 07:00|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 Enforcement of General Order Number 1 (GO-1), long over due. I've always thought "cohabitation of married couples" was bullshi*!

Posted by Besoeker 2009-12-21 08:36|| 2009-12-21 08:36|| Front Page Top

#2 Don't know much about it, but how about Depo-Provera (1 shot every 90 days) being encouraged for all female enlistees?

Those who decline should then, if pregnancy "happens" to them, expect the Full Monty of military prosecution....

Posted by Uncle Phester 2009-12-21 08:43|| 2009-12-21 08:43|| Front Page Top

#3 GO-1 at LINK.

Of course the DoD statistics will never see the light of day, but I wish the American taxpayer knew how much money, time, and medical resources were being spent spent through the deployment of female soldiers into combat zones.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-12-21 08:50|| 2009-12-21 08:50|| Front Page Top

#4 Pregnancy has been seen by many as a 'ticket home' Uncle Phester. Once home and the ticket is no longer needed, many choose abortion. Been going on like that for several years. I had a friend during DS/DS, he was a helo pilot. He got assigned flying a chair in a REPO DEPOT in Riyadh processing preggies back to CONUS. He kept very, very busy and generally quite pi**ed off.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-12-21 08:58|| 2009-12-21 08:58|| Front Page Top

#5 What do you do about the boys who can't keep it zipped, Phester?

Or are we to have two standards?

Posted by Steve White 2009-12-21 09:40|| 2009-12-21 09:40|| Front Page Top

#6 A little history. Prior to the 70s, women served in auxiliaries, WAC, WAVE, WAF which provided supplements to manpower requirements usually in administrative or personnel fields. They operated in a segregated organization with limitations in job and promotion opportunities, but were also exempted from duties and responsibilities normally associated with full military service. With the Equal Opportunity push in the 70s, the auxiliary formations were done away with and females were directly integrated into the ranks. Somewhere around the late 70s, the standing policy that any pregnant female be automatically discharged with full benefits, to include maternity coverage, was discontinued and individuals were retained on the rolls until they chose to separate or a long record of sub-performance allowed command authorities to discharge or bar from reenlistment.

Hundreds of thousands of women have and do serve with integrity, honor, and skill. Unfortunately, there have been others who play the system. The problem of using pregnancy to get out of danger or hard duty has been abused for decades. It generates resentment that has been compounded for those decades by a command structure that has chosen to look the other way. For thousands of years, male warriors whoâve sought to avoid danger by self inflicted wounds that maim but are not fatal have faced severe punishment to include death for such acts. The act destroys good order and discipline necessary for a viable military [not to be confused with âpalace guardsâ who look good wearing uniforms but are only useful in dealing with unruly civilians].

These are not victims. It is a voluntary military. Equal opportunity has responsibility. Without responsibility it simply becomes privilege that creates inequality for others. That the problem has reached such a level that the theater commander must do this means that severe hardship is occurring in unit integrity and cohesion. It is not something requiring a âtouchy feelyâ or political solution. This is what separates military from civilian. Whoa to those whoâd undermine the battlefield needs of the commanders to Political Correctness. History does not smile on those who do. This also points out another fundamental difference between civil society and the military. The military must discipline its ranks for sexual behaviors that the civil society does not. That applies to all variations thereof.

Art. 115. Malingering

Any person subject to this chapter who for the purpose of avoiding work, duty, or serviceâ
(1) feigns illness, physical disablement, mental lapse or derangement; or
(2) intentionally inflicts self-injury;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Equality can be a bitch. And any sperm donor is a principal or accessory to the fact.

Posted by Procopius2k 2009-12-21 09:52|| 2009-12-21 09:52|| Front Page Top

#7 Thanks for bringing my lack of clarity to my attention Steve W.

As I believe the UCMJ is genderless in application, I would expect that prosecution would apply to both participants....

Posted by Uncle Phester 2009-12-21 10:17|| 2009-12-21 10:17|| Front Page Top

#8 Well said Procopius2k. I might add, the job of the United states military is to DEFEND democracy, not participate in it. In addition to it's having become a social petri dish for our estranged leadership in Washington, therein may lie some of the difficulty.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-12-21 10:18|| 2009-12-21 10:18|| Front Page Top

#9 Under the new policy, troops expecting a baby face court martial and a possible prison term and so do the men who made them pregnant.

That's the second line of the article. This one is being applied fairly... although I assume there will have to be a lot of lab tests to confirm paternity.

Posted by trailing wife 2009-12-21 10:59|| 2009-12-21 10:59|| Front Page Top

#10 Given the political leanings of those now running the Beltway circus, I suspect there's a Pentagon broom closet now being configured for imminent use as MG Cucolo's office. And I sure hope he saved the receipt when he bought those 3-star insignias at the PX...

Posted by Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) 2009-12-21 11:10|| 2009-12-21 11:10|| Front Page Top

#11 This has been a big problem for a long time. Always bustin the TOE numbers prior to/during deployments.

Strategypage has commentary on it also:

Posted by newc 2009-12-21 11:11|| 2009-12-21 11:11|| Front Page Top

#12 there will have to be a lot of lab tests to confirm paternity. Posted by trailing wife

Very costly, also medical professional's valuable time away from wounded soldiers I might add. Not to mention Courts Martial time and expenses, unit leadership statements and testimony, paternity suits, establishment of dependent (newborn) benefits, custody, childcare, meds, confinement, appeals, etc.

Worms in a can. Lots and lots of em.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-12-21 11:15|| 2009-12-21 11:15|| Front Page Top

#13 I assume there will have to be a lot of lab tests to confirm paternity.

I believe all service members now have DNA on file for remains identification. So, it's a matter of checking the kids DNA against an existing data base. CSI: Paternity. Maybe we can contract it out to Maury. Oh, and that little bit about not using the DNA for 'other purposes', goes right next to my Social Security tab from the 50s which said my SSN would never be used for any other identification purposes.

Posted by Procopius2k 2009-12-21 11:33|| 2009-12-21 11:33|| Front Page Top

#14 Heh, got the recruiting poster for WACs at the span filter.

Excellent comment P2K. I understand that the Marines did not have a women's auxiliary prior to the 70s but did have women Marines. Could you or someone else inform me of how the Marines organized their female members and how they handled such situations prior to the 70s? Thank you.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2009-12-21 12:22|| 2009-12-21 12:22|| Front Page Top

#15 Cant happen soon enough for me. This was a huge problem for my units both overseas and stateside. Women were popping up pregs left and right, and often the other female soldiers ended up taking on their duties while they were shuttled to and fro, from doctor appointment to doctor appointment, or given limited duty, ie: 2 -4 hour shifts. And ofcourse, if they become pregnant while deployed they get shipped CONUS. I noticed some of the Medical Units made sure to issue b.c to soldiers. It seems sensible to make this mandatory for all females.

Posted by GirlThursday 2009-12-21 12:48|| 2009-12-21 12:48|| Front Page Top

#16 I noticed some of the Medical Units made sure to issue b.c to soldiers. It seems sensible to make this mandatory for all females. Posted by GirlThursday

Yes GirlThursday, I saw the same thing in addition to boxes of condoms in the MEDAC. Oh wait...GO-1 ???

Posted by Besoeker 2009-12-21 13:02|| 2009-12-21 13:02|| Front Page Top

#17 Right? With Nuva Ring, Depo shots, etc., there are more virtually foolproof methods available than ever. Its high time the military cleans up its act. We had mandatory shots all the time one of the shots should be a depo shot for female soldiers going to war. It also protects the female if she were to become pregs, at least she could produce her shot record and say "see, heres when I got a depo shot" as some legal protection. I have heard of women being the 1/2 half of one percent that do get pregs on depo, but at least if precautions were taken, she'd have less to fear from an unhappy chain of command.

Posted by GirlThursday 2009-12-21 13:14|| 2009-12-21 13:14|| Front Page Top

#18 All this but God help you if you are a male and get caught between the CHU and the shower bare chested in PT shorts. Absolute hypocracy.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-12-21 13:19|| 2009-12-21 13:19|| Front Page Top

#19 Well, theoretically everyone loves babies is what it is. Its just that female soldiers on board to deploy shouldn't be having them, I firmly believe. Several female soldier friends of mine have become pregnant and dropped out of the military or been sent to the rear. I have felt torn at several points between feeling supportive, and feeling angry at them for not being upstanding and taking contraception. It is a huge problem. Also, men should be made to be responsible. If youre grown up enough to fight in the military, you should be shown the way to being a responsible man, and that means becoming a father at a moment of your choosing, not by a "whoopsie daisy" moment. The military having taken women into their ranks, doesn't seem to have caught their own policies up to the time. But this was inevitable because on average I guesstimate about 20% of the units I was in were pregnant at any given time. 20%!!!!

Posted by GirlThursday 2009-12-21 13:27|| 2009-12-21 13:27|| Front Page Top

#20 Could you or someone else inform me of how the Marines organized their female members and how they handled such situations prior to the 70s? Thank you.

WM's (Women Marines), at least most of the ones I knew had their own natural built in birth control. It was their looks. Oh, and the fact that most of them preferred each other.

Of course, if the Jar Heads were organizing a Dog Show®, anything could (and usually did) happen! Woof! Woof! 8-)

Posted by Angoth Platypus4042 2009-12-21 13:42|| 2009-12-21 13:42|| Front Page Top

#21 Speaking of fugly...You dont need to be a spelling bee contestant finalist to figure that in the present day military, it was some of the homeliest or less "principled" females that were getting pregnant.

We knew of one at AIT that bragged about getting freaky with a guy behind a dumpster due to lack of bunk space. And my compatriots that got pregnant that were winning beauty contests, werent winning spelling bees, or vice versa.

But theres no semi finalist weeding out phase for winning in the reproduction round. UNFortunately, quality of bloodlines and scarcity of offspring arent a characteristic of careless couplings in the military.

Posted by GirlThursday 2009-12-21 13:59|| 2009-12-21 13:59|| Front Page Top

#22 Could you or someone else inform me of how the Marines organized their female members and how they handled such situations prior to the 70s?

A summary is here.

Here is a pdf format history of Women Marines 1946-1977.

A knowledgeable Marine with personnel experience would have to chime in on how pregnancy issues were handled.

Posted by Procopius2k 2009-12-21 15:39|| 2009-12-21 15:39|| Front Page Top

#23 Men don't get pregnant, women do. It's upto women to sort out their lack of ability to perform the job they signed upto do if they get pregnant.

Call me a misogynist but it's true.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2009-12-21 16:09|| 2009-12-21 16:09|| Front Page Top

#24 Except we interpret the male participation as part of the act.

Art. 77. Principals

Any person punishable under this chapter whoâ
(1) commits an offense punishable by this chapter, or aids, abets, counsels, commands, or procures its commission; or
(2) causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him would be punishable by this chapter;
is a principal.

Posted by Procopius2k 2009-12-21 16:16|| 2009-12-21 16:16|| Front Page Top

#25 In fairness I've known a number excellent female soldiers, probably of, or close to the calibre of GirlThursday. I wouldn't have traded them for any man-snuffy.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-12-21 16:23|| 2009-12-21 16:23|| Front Page Top

#26 BP
Right you are.
Although I dislike the "I told you so" animosity I feel towards some of the recruits who went for it, instead of going into battle with junior in their stomachs, women should go into battle with a nuva ring in their stomachs, a depo shot, or not at all.

Posted by GirlThursday 2009-12-21 16:32|| 2009-12-21 16:32|| Front Page Top

#27 Googled "nuva ring." Wow! Downsides, bad, bad, juju. With the exception of hair loss, nothing like the ring in my nose. Nothing at all.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-12-21 16:39|| 2009-12-21 16:39|| Front Page Top

#28 Nuva Ring--for when you absolutely, positively cannot afford to get pregnant.

Posted by GirlThursday 2009-12-21 16:48|| 2009-12-21 16:48|| Front Page Top

#29 So basically you are asking young men and women not to have sex for how many months? (Accidents will happen)

Get real

Posted by European Conservative 2009-12-21 21:42|| 2009-12-21 21:42|| Front Page Top

#30 Thats right folks, people in the military do it. Maybe its the death anxiety.

1 each, US-issue Army grunt is going to run you over $250k MIMIMUM from day one of basic to deployment time. Cost is NOT amortized the longer they serve because they will advance in rank and pay and specialized training, all which cost BIG MONEY. So, it stands to reason, give each female soldier in a unit a shot of depo every 3 months, its less than like fifty bucks per, the cost pales by comparison to the alternatives.

Posted by GirlThursday 2009-12-21 22:00|| 2009-12-21 22:00|| Front Page Top

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