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2009-11-02 Science & Technology

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Posted by Anonymoose 2009-11-02 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11134 views ] Top

#1 I'm afraid it's 1918 here come.

Posted by phil_b 2009-11-02 02:17|| 2009-11-02 02:17|| Front Page Top

#2 This does not sound good, and should be watched closely. Does everyone have Tamiflu courses for their families?

Posted by Whiskey Mike 2009-11-02 05:39|| 2009-11-02 05:39|| Front Page Top

#3 Is this possibly just an opportunistic infection riding along with the flu, or could this be just the same ol' piggy virus, but on steroids this time?

Also, any idea if this is concentrated in one area of Ukraine, or is it more widespread? (My father in law in Moscow is sick, and they've got lots of flu there, too. Am really hoping this is contained, for his and my mother in law's sake.)

Posted by Cornsilk Blondie 2009-11-02 06:57|| 2009-11-02 06:57|| Front Page Top

#4 Other information not confirmed:

According to the operative data of the Ministry of Health on 1 November, recorded throughout the country more than 191,000 patients with unknown disease of lungs. Of these, 83,000 are children. Total number deaths recorded - 60, with 123 people expected to die soon.

According to unofficial information, the death rate in Ukraine from the alleged pneumonic plague is far higher than officially announced. Authorities are cautious because of wildly different symptoms.

According to unofficial data, in Ukraine over the past week about 1500 people have already died. As noted by some doctors, the reason - pneumonic plague. High temperatures from the first day, a burning sensation in the chest, the desire to drink cold and nausea - all of these symptoms are frightening. Mild symptoms followed by coughing up blood, a few days before death.

All the doctors throughout Ukraine say that this is pneumonic plague. 300,000 doses of Tamiflu expected to arrive Monday."

The doctors say that the lungs of the dead were black.

"The disease has spread to Poland. Streets of western Ukrainian city of Lvov are deserted."

Posted by Anonymoose 2009-11-02 09:01|| 2009-11-02 09:01|| Front Page Top

#5 And Romania.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11020901/Romania_Convention.html

40 out of 240 law students attending conference stricken with moderate to severe influenza.

Posted by Anonymoose 2009-11-02 09:53|| 2009-11-02 09:53|| Front Page Top

#6 I thought pneumonic plague is caused by bacteria, not a virus. Why are they trying to get Tamiflu if what they really need is an antibiotic?

Posted by Cornsilk Blondie 2009-11-02 10:46|| 2009-11-02 10:46|| Front Page Top

#7 Ukraine has a population of about 40 million. Sixty people, out of 40 million, dying of respiratory problems in a week is not a very large number. Forgive me if I don't join in on the panic.

Posted by Biff Wellington 2009-11-02 10:51|| 2009-11-02 10:51|| Front Page Top

#8 My finance works in the Estonian health ministry, and is well connected to the WHO.
I showed her this article, and she thinks that it's Ukrainian tabloid journalism at work here.
As Biff said, 60 out of 40 million ain't a lot. More Ukranians died in a vodka stupor last week than that.
This isn't Captain Trips we're dealing with, at least yet.

Posted by Mizzou Mafia 2009-11-02 11:40|| 2009-11-02 11:40|| Front Page Top

#9 250,000 infected, several thousand in hospital. In one region, 30% of health care workers are infected. 67 dead, 250 in critical condition not expected to survive. Disease is "atypical", with some SARS-like symptoms, but is not SARS.

Information is still coming out choppy.

Posted by Anonymoose 2009-11-02 13:14|| 2009-11-02 13:14|| Front Page Top

#10 Allow me to correct my comment above: According to the CIA Factbook the population of Ukraine is about 46 million as of July, 2008.

Now, lets look at the numbers Anonymoose has posted. 250,000 infected out of a population of 46 million equals about ½ of one percent. That seems to be a rather low number for an epidemic.

Several thousand hospitalized out of 250,000 infected. That sounds like about 2% of the infected. That's hardly alarming.

Sixty-seven dead out of a population of 46 million works out to one death per 686,000 head of population. Keep in mind the seasonal flu kills an average of 36,000 Americans each year according to the CDC. So the regular seasonal flu kills about 1 per 8,333 head of population in the U.S. annually. Again, the numbers coming out of Ukraine are not the least bit alarming even if all of those in critical condition do indeed perish.

Posted by Biff Wellington 2009-11-02 13:54|| 2009-11-02 13:54|| Front Page Top

#11 "Pneumonic Plague" it ain't. That's the airborne phase of Bubonic (Pestis Pestis) Plague.

And you'd have a hell of a lot more dead if it were.

Posted by mojo 2009-11-02 14:00|| 2009-11-02 14:00|| Front Page Top

#12 When are the Ukrainians going to blame it on ~~Bush~~ Stalin?

Posted by borgboy 2009-11-02 14:34|| 2009-11-02 14:34|| Front Page Top

#13 Right on Cornsilk Blondie. Panic mode has set in. Viral at first but could turn bacterial later. In my area if you have an emergency the hospital emergency room is full up with upper respiratory aliments. People should just stay home and treat it as a flu. S.o.b. (short of breath) is cause for concern however etc..

Posted by Dale 2009-11-02 16:56|| 2009-11-02 16:56|| Front Page Top

#14 #3 Contained? Not with the current flow of people.
Airplanes, all clusters of people. Shopping, eating, paying a bill, money, touching a shopping cart, or anything someone else has touched. Just a breath of air of someone else who has exhaled. I boil vinegar to kill air borne germs in my home to prevent the spread in my home. Bleach will work well on cleanup as this is what is used in many hospitals. Drinking apple cider vinegar with water to taste is all I do to stop flu. Drink allot till you are running to the bathroom as it works like a fluid pill, a natural pain killer, kills germs on contact. Like frost on a plant you nip the bug at its weakest and flush the trash out. Hopefully before bacteria gets started at that point you must get medical care. This is all I do and it has worked for me for about 30 years. I travel with a premix just in case. Like an ankle sprain with swelling its the swelling that retards healing. Flush the garbage out and you recover faster. With sinus you must go three months without symptoms to have beat it. So your not done till you have that cleared up as well. I am not a doctor but had I am proactive as I have been sick most of my life and I am symptom free at this time.

Posted by Dale 2009-11-02 17:41|| 2009-11-02 17:41|| Front Page Top

#15 Biff Wellington: You're quite correct as far as raw numbers go. The concern is not what is happening now, but what is about to happen. The WHO is entering Ukraine in force because of one word: "atypical".

Influenza has certain symptoms and a course of progression. Rules it follows. But something is wrong here. The symptoms and timetable of the disease means that it either is not influenza, or it has mutated into a form never before seen.

Typically, pneumonic plague is bacterial, though in rare instances it can be viral. But the symptoms are different. The same with SARS. It shares some things in common with SARS, but it isn't SARS.

In short, this is one for the medical detectives, and ASAP. Because until the rules are known, whatever is going on here is a very serious threat. It could stay as it is now, or suddenly it could become a nightmare.

Posted by Anonymoose 2009-11-02 17:51|| 2009-11-02 17:51|| Front Page Top

#16 http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11020902/Ukraine_Spike.html

Posted by Anonymoose 2009-11-02 17:56|| 2009-11-02 17:56|| Front Page Top

#17 Concerning Bubobnic/pnuemonic plague,

Some people think, myself included, that the Black Death was caused by the plague, but a flu pandemic. The symptoms can be similar.

Posted by phil_b 2009-11-02 19:48|| 2009-11-02 19:48|| Front Page Top

#18 That should have read,

the Black Death wasn't caused by the plague

Posted by phil_b 2009-11-02 19:49|| 2009-11-02 19:49|| Front Page Top

#19 PAKISTANI DEFENCE FORUM > NEW SHOWDOWN OF NATO WID RUSSIA IN EASTERN EUROPE [East Euro + Black Sea-Caspian regions]. Oer MOLDAVIA'S ADMISSION INTO NATO WIDOUT EFFEC RESOLUTION OF ITS DISPUTED, RUSS-STRATEGIC, RUSS-DISALLOWED, NO-WAY-JOSE-CAN-DNIESTER-BE-IN-NATO TRANS-DNIESTER REGION WITHIN MOLDAVIA.

Posted by JosephMendiola">JosephMendiola 2009-11-02 20:16|| na]">[na] 2009-11-02 20:16|| Front Page Top

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