Article

2008-05-01 -Signs, Portents, and the Weather-

Ocean Cooling to Briefly Halt Global Warming, Researchers Say

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Posted by eltoroverde 2008-05-01 00:18|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 "we need new memes to explain why the data doesn't fit our phony hysteria!"

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-05-01 06:29|| 2008-05-01 06:29|| Front Page Top

#2 ...it doesn't mean that greenhouse-gas warming is not with us.

Um... no shit. It is always with us and it is what keeps Earth from being like the moon. 300+ in the day and -250 at night. Greehouse gases keep Earth habitable. Get your facts straight, dipshit.

There can be natural fluctuations that may mask climate change in the short term.

And the long term, and all other terms. Weather fluctuates. It always has, it always will.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-05-01 07:50|| 2008-05-01 07:50|| Front Page Top

#3 So now we have to wait 10 years to see if the Global Warming Bogeyman is real? All the while paying these douche bags to conduct conflicting study after conflicting study with public money.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-05-01 08:06|| 2008-05-01 08:06|| Front Page Top

#4 "There can be natural fluctuations that may mask climate change in the short term."

"Short" being a relative term. The Little Ice Age lasted about 200 years.

Posted by Steve 2008-05-01 08:17|| 2008-05-01 08:17|| Front Page Top

#5 The loonacy of this is simply mind boggling.

What is climate but weather over time for a particular geographical area?

So Global Warming, that was going to raise sea levels by 20 ft (by 2030 wasn't it?) Is still going strong, except that we may be cooling off for the next 10 years (um, haven't we been cooling for the last 10 too?)

So when is this catastrophe supposed to happen again?

"If we don't experience warming over the next 10 years, it doesn't mean that greenhouse-gas warming is not with us." Ummm, yes it does. If it ain't warming IT'S NOT WARMING!

Loons the whole lot of them.

Posted by AlanC 2008-05-01 09:11|| 2008-05-01 09:11|| Front Page Top

#6 Ah, the modern Ptolemy system design. Forcing a model to match your predefined nature of the universe. Cycles within cycles. Plots within plots.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-05-01 09:28|| 2008-05-01 09:28|| Front Page Top

#7 I'm in the earth science business and I am convinced that man-made global warming is occurring.
I am not convinced we have any idea how much global warming is occurring nor how much is due to man.
I am convinced the Kyoto treaty and its like will not reduce whatever impact is due to man, but will increase it. It is not even intended as an environmental treaty, but as a wealth redistribution treaty - environmentalism is a smoke screen.
I am also convinced that reducing greenhouse emissions is the right thing to do - as long as you don't make a religion or suicide pact out of it.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2008-05-01 09:39|| 2008-05-01 09:39|| Front Page Top

#8 We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen! We must do something about this immediately! Immediately! Immediately! Hurumph! Hurumph! Hurumph!

Posted by tu3031 2008-05-01 09:59|| 2008-05-01 09:59|| Front Page Top

#9 Instead of looking at anything humans do, I strongly suggest looking at the macro systems involved.

That is, all Earth's energy comes from the sun. This means it is half the equation. And anything out of the ordinary that happens on the sun is going to strongly effect Earth.

Right now, the sun is in a period of extreme quiet. Almost no sun spots, which herald coronal mass ejections. Coronal mass ejections are massive blocks of energy that normally slap Earth hard.

I'm pretty sure that not coincidentally, the reason we suddenly have a really big La Nina in the Pacific is because of this.

Importantly, this theory is testable next year. If the sun continues to be very calm, next years La Nina should be as large or larger than it was this year. The northern hemisphere should freeze its ass off.

On top of that, because atmospheric CO2 lags behind temperature, the tremendous cooling of this past winter should drag CO2 levels down, far beyond what humans produce. The big question is: will CO2 levels drop gradually, or will they have an acute drop?

If they have an acute drop, it could erase a centuries worth of atmospheric carbon increase in a short period of time.

In either case, if the natural drop of carbon strongly exceeds the man-made input, it should mean the end of this nonsense, and the advocates of MMGW should be told to put a sock in it.

If it is a major, acute drop of carbon, we could be in for some very rough times.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-05-01 10:12|| 2008-05-01 10:12|| Front Page Top

#10 Hear hear, Glenmore.

I'm convinced that we need to persuade our Governments to make tax initiatives to flood the market with cheap CO2, so that Coca Cola (no Mohammed, No Makkah) can maintain their hegemony over Qibla Cola, in the Masjid al-Haram, ensuring our victory in the battle for Freedom and Liberty.

STELLA U AKBAR!!!
STELLA U AKBAR!!!
STELLA U AKBAR!!!

Posted by Admiral Allan Ackbar 2008-05-01 10:17|| 2008-05-01 10:17|| Front Page Top

#11 Moose, the southern hemisphere is already freezing its ass off (by our standards). Record cold across large parts of Australia in the last few days.

Watch the southern hemisphere sea ice extent. It looks likely to go to a new record this winter which will be hard to ignore.

Posted by phil_b 2008-05-01 11:26|| 2008-05-01 11:26|| Front Page Top

#12 ...natural climate variations could be stronger than the global-warming trend ....

The Goracle will never forgive such heresy.

Posted by DoDo 2008-05-01 11:35|| 2008-05-01 11:35|| Front Page Top

#13 Phil_b, of course they can ignore it. It doesn't fit their model. And we will continue to hear stories of icebergs the "size of Australia" breaking off as proof of global warming.

Posted by Rambler in California">Rambler in California 2008-05-01 11:52|| 2008-05-01 11:52|| Front Page Top

#14 "Sure, humans produce only about 2% of the annual CO2 output on the planet - but it's the controlling 2%!..."

Posted by mojo">mojo 2008-05-01 12:18|| 2008-05-01 12:18|| Front Page Top

#15 Anonymoose, I don't get your link between carbon levels and temperature. Are you saying that lower temperatures caused by reduced sunspot activity somehow takes CO2 out of the atmosphere??? Please to be telling me how it does that.

Posted by remoteman 2008-05-01 13:27|| 2008-05-01 13:27|| Front Page Top

#16 Are you saying that lower temperatures caused by reduced sunspot activity somehow takes CO2 out of the atmosphere

If it gets really cold, the CO2 freezes and precipitates out of the atmosphere and you have to shovel the dang stuff off your driveway. Happens on Mars every winter.

Posted by SteveS 2008-05-01 13:50|| 2008-05-01 13:50|| Front Page Top

#17 That's funny Steve!! 8^)

remoteman, IIRC the temp of the ocean is the key. The ocean is the largest CO2 sink. Warm water holds less gas in suspension than cold. That's why warm temps raise CO2 levels (not the reverse)
Cold water holds more CO2 in the same way it holds more O2 which is why there's so many fish in cold water.

Posted by AlanC 2008-05-01 13:54|| 2008-05-01 13:54|| Front Page Top

#18 Cold also slows down the metabolosim, which can allow things to power through hard times so to speak. In warmer water, a disease outbreak will run the course and be much worse than in colder water.

Posted by bombay">bombay 2008-05-01 14:12|| 2008-05-01 14:12|| Front Page Top

#19 remoteman and AlanC: The study of carbon sequestration in the oceans is very new and not well understood.

Its model was destroyed when, totally unexpectedly, what was believed to be a major change in ocean currents closely connected to warming suddenly started flowing in the opposite direction.

So the bottom line is we have no clue as to why or how much the oceans affect CO2, just that they do, and a lot.

But that being said, what we *do* know are the actual CO2 levels that go up when the atmosphere is warming and go down when it is cooling.

Since this year, the northern hemisphere cooled like all heck, the CO2 levels should also follow and drop like a rock. *For some reason*. The only question is how fast?

If the CO2 sink takes a while to do its work, the drop could take several years to show up. However, if it drops quickly, it could be very bad.

Since it is an actual reading, not a theory, it matters far more than any theory of why it happens.

Years ago, I made some inquiries about glacial activity in ancient Australia, and fortunately, they might be too high a latitude. However, the climate of most of the continent could approach something like that of North Dakota for several years.

The critical thing to look for, another actual, not a theory, is what La Nina is going to do next year. If it is as big as it was this year, or bigger, both the northern and southern hemispheres are going to be in for one heck of a lot of cold.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-05-01 14:52|| 2008-05-01 14:52|| Front Page Top

#20 Well if the skiing is as good next year as it was this year, I am certainly not going to complain. Can't say the same for my sister in Telluride though. Her house is at 10,000' and it is snowing today. She is NOT pleased.

Posted by remoteman 2008-05-01 15:53|| 2008-05-01 15:53|| Front Page Top

#21 global warming takes "a sucker born every minute" to a global level.

Posted by Sninert Black9312 2008-05-01 16:19|| 2008-05-01 16:19|| Front Page Top

#22 Moose, are you saying that we don't know if cold water will hold more CO2 than warm water? That would surprise me.

If you're saying that we don't know how that fact applies to the oceans with all their currets, etc. than fine.

Posted by AlanC 2008-05-01 16:19|| 2008-05-01 16:19|| Front Page Top

#23

For anyone that wants to understand the skeptics (aka deniers) position on AGW go here.

This will show why all the models and "conclusions" from them are pure BS.

To really understand you need to know statistics very well. I know enough to follow the threads but I'm very good at computer modelling.

Look particularly at comment 144.

Posted by AlanC 2008-05-01 16:28|| 2008-05-01 16:28|| Front Page Top

#24 Well, THAT attempt at linking didn't work.....

In case this one didn't work either....go here
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3048

Posted by AlanC 2008-05-01 16:31|| 2008-05-01 16:31|| Front Page Top

#25 #20 Well if the skiing is as good next year as it was this year, I am certainly not going to complain. Can't say the same for my sister in Telluride though. Her house is at 10,000' and it is snowing today. She is NOT pleased. Posted by: remoteman 2008-05-01 15:53

Heck, remoteman, it snowed this morning at my home in Colorado Springs, altitude 6394' (according to Google Earth) The current temp is 38 degrees. Yesterday's high was 77.

I'm no expert, but I read a lot. NO ONE, and I mean no one, understands everything there is to know about climate and how it works on the long term. We're still learning how sunspot activity, or how La Nina/El Nino affect weather, why they develop, and so forth. The only thing predicting "Catastrophic, Man-Made Global Warming ™" are MODELS. Since we don't know how to predict how certain major climate change functions work, how the he$$ can we "model" them effectively? It's all a crock, and most people that push it know it.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2008-05-01 16:41|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2008-05-01 16:41|| Front Page Top

#26 The current temp is 38 degrees. Yesterday's high was 77.

Typical springtime in the Rockies. I have more global warming on my driveway too. Of course, it will all be melted by tomorrow....

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-05-01 17:25|| 2008-05-01 17:25|| Front Page Top

#27 The cooling sea temps may halt "Global Warming" temporarily but you can't say it will do the same for "Climate Change". In fact the very act of cooling sea temps proves "Global Climate Change".

This is the whole reason behind the change from the "Global Warming" buzzword to "Global Climate Change".

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-05-01 19:22|| 2008-05-01 19:22|| Front Page Top

#28 If we enter another Ice Age it will mask the real Global Warming that's going on. Of course if "Hell Freezes Over" you could still get freezer burn.

There went another Global Flying Pig!

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-05-01 19:27|| 2008-05-01 19:27|| Front Page Top

#29 Anonymoose:

Less sun spots equals more cosmic rays hitting earth equals more hygroscopic nuclei equals more cloud cover and precipitation equals more heat reflected from earth equals more cooling.

More precipitation must equal flushing CO2 from the atmosphere. This will make a lot of plant life very happy since they love absorb CO2.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-05-01 19:38|| 2008-05-01 19:38|| Front Page Top

#30 There you go injecting facts and actual science into a good moonbat 'narrative'.....

Posted by CrazyFool 2008-05-01 20:52|| 2008-05-01 20:52|| Front Page Top

23:57 JosephMendiola
23:52 RD
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23:36 Alaska Paul
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23:06 Anonymoose
22:54 Rambler in California
22:48 eltoroverde
22:42 Rambler in California
22:28 SteveS
22:28 eltoroverde
22:18 SteveS
21:58 Frank G
21:57 Frank G
21:47 Mike
21:28 Steve White
21:23 Angie Schultz
20:52 CrazyFool
20:39 CrazyFool
20:13 Rambler in California
20:12 Frank G
20:02 Frank G