Article

2007-04-13 Iraq

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Posted by trailing wife 2007-04-13 07:27|| || Front Page|| [11136 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Thanks, TW - I needed that. Very depressed yesterday, but leave it to Charles to cheer me up!

Posted by Bobby 2007-04-13 08:41|| 2007-04-13 08:41|| Front Page Top

#2 Out of curiousity, Bobby, what's your read on the Iraq situation? I replied to your inquiry yesterday and hope that you will to mine now.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-13 12:13|| 2007-04-13 12:13|| Front Page Top

#3 The donks blindly hate W and the trunks so much that they have become as irrational as the conservatives calling for Clinton's head in the mid 90s. I believe that the rabid donks will step up efforts to get at W and the trunks through the AG, funding for the war, and eventually impeachment. They will be so unfocused that election results in 2008 may surprise even the most cynical trunk.

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2007-04-13 12:23|| 2007-04-13 12:23|| Front Page Top

#4 14 of the 18 tribal leaders in Anbar have turned against al-Qaeda.

Thanks for the up news TW. But sadly we know the Muslim terrorist aiding American media will NEVER air this story.

Posted by Icerigger">Icerigger 2007-04-13 13:39|| 2007-04-13 13:39|| Front Page Top

#5 Stand by, Zenster. I am generally a very early morning guy - as early as 0530, harley ever after 2100. I am now reading your posts from yesterday. If not "ire", I seem to have provoked something!

But thats OK. I don't have solutions; only opinions. I'll be back here later, after I've had a change to read - if not digest - your words. I think I can remember it's at the Hammer's post.

Posted by Bobby 2007-04-13 14:45|| 2007-04-13 14:45|| Front Page Top

#6 No problem, Bobby.

The article doesn't mention one really important shift in policy. New ROE (Rules of Engagement) apply now in Iraq.

Previously, if our troops encountered hostiles, they could fire only if fired upon and were not allowed to return fire if the enemy ran out of ammunition or surrendered. This meant that hostiles could hose down our troops and, the instant they ran out of ammunition, simply drop their weapons and "surrender". Coalition troops were obilged to take them into custody and turn them over to Iraqi police who usualy let them back out on the street within hours. Our troops were encountering the same enemy fighters several times over the course of a month.

From what I gather, the new ROE allows our troops to open fire on suspected militants without first having to undergo attack. They are also permitted to kill those who are firing on them regardless of circumstances. In this war of attrition we now have, for once, a real chance at attritting the enemy.

I'd like to think that the Iraqi Army is coming up to speed, but if Iraq's politicians are any indication of performance, then I have little hope on that count.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-13 15:09|| 2007-04-13 15:09|| Front Page Top

#7 Zenster with respect to your posts of yesterday afternoon: I too wish we could disappear for a couple of months to give them a taste of what itd be like without our stabilizing influence.

Until we get a more unified front at home, thats got to be very nearly impossible. The left would unhinge itself about a.) not leaving completely, and b.) allowing the slaughter to go on while we hid out on the bases. And thatd be out of both sides of their mouths at the same time. It might be fun to see Pelosi and her ilk melt down in confusion. After all, its what they wanted, right? Protect the troops, you said, no? Let the Iraqis stand up for themselves, right? It is delicious to contemplate!

How long would we hide out? Until the Iranians invaded? Until Maliki was assassinated? After the Saudis came in to protect the Sunnis? When the Turks came over to teach the Kurds a lesson? What Tater declared himself President for Life? Too many possibilities, and not too many upsides to any of em.

I hope Krauthammer is correct, and we are seeing the first fruits of the surge. We have had a couple of instances over the last few years, where comparisons were made to the last burst of killing like the battle of the bulge. I remember reading here how previous wars get more and more savage and intense until suddenly they end. Think Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Saipan, and Hiroshima then it ends.

You posted, after Id long since gone to dreamland, Thank you, sinse. Even if somewhat garbled at times, I appreciate your support. I have backed our campaign in Iraq from the get-go and still do now. I just want our country to proceed with some sort of coherent game plan and not the dog's breakfast that has previously been passed off for strategy.

You had, and continue to have, my support, Zenster, for what its worth. Heck, I still support the Vietnam War, right up until we abandoned our SEATO allies. Like I said yesterday, I was quite depressed about yesterdays events, and you seemed to share my frustrations perhaps to the point of throwing up your hands and quitting. I briefly considered it yesterday.

But Ive been watching a WW II DVD The Complete History, I think, maybe British in origin, with a History Channel label on it. It amazes me how much where we are at now parallels the late 1930s in Europe. No one wants to face the threat; everyone hopes itll go away, and the US is safe behind the two huge oceans. It couldve ended in truce after Poland was partitioned, but Churchill got swept in and would have nothing to do with it. Had Chamberlain negotiated another peace for our time after the partition of Poland, it wouldve only been for another five-year hudna, anyway. Italy was hoping to prepare up until 1943, along with many of Hitlers generals.

Maybe Joes right, and its going to take an American Hiroshima to get more of us on the same page. But as long as the enemy keeps it below a certain level up to maybe say, Kenya, but well below the 9/11 level the American public will get bored, and the left and the MSM drum-beating will eventually triumph just as Chamberlain did.

If I go on any more, thisll start to approach the length of one of your posts!

I agree with johnniebartlett who said - Press on and support the troops and their commander. Ignore the media. Except I've been writing my Congessman - and your - with regularity. I wrote McCain yesterday, applauding his courage for standing up for the war.

For the voice of moderation, there is the ever-intelligent Trailing Wife - The Surge appears to be working, and more troops are getting ready to join those on the ground. Pulling out now would betray all who turned in bad guys, and the many Iraqis who've chosen to join the Iraqi Army and Police, even at the risk not only to themselves but to their families. The only way I would be comfortable leaving Iraq is if we had concluded that glassing over the Muslim Middle East is the only remaining option.

We knew this was going to be a long fight. For goodness sake, we've only been doing this for a scant four years! It took about that long to settle Germany after VE Day, and they didn't have a 1400 year religious war and a culture of deviousness to work around. How long did it take for South Korea to become truly democratic?

Peace, Bro. I gotta go get my haircut!

Posted by Bobby 2007-04-13 15:19|| 2007-04-13 15:19|| Front Page Top

#8 Boy, that is Zenster-length, isn't it? [grin]

Posted by Bobby 2007-04-13 15:20|| 2007-04-13 15:20|| Front Page Top

#9 See, Bobby, anyone can post at length once they get started.

I'll just say that it looks like we are in violent agreement.

With regard to the Vietnam war, one of the truly sad things is that the captains of American industry did not come forward and openly address why it was so important to fight communism. There was never a strong defense of capitalism advanced by conservatives or free-market economists. Somehow, communism was given a free ride instead of "The Emporer's New Clothes" treatment. Even now, both sides of the aisle continue to act as if communism is somehow a valid form of government instead of the thugocracy it always has been.

Similarly, people still equate capitalism with unbridled greed and predatory market control when those are manifestations of unethical or immoral conduct. It's long past tea that corporate leaders began rising to the defense of good old American capitalism. This is why, all of the beneficial technological spinoffs aside, the Apollo missions to the moon were so critical. They provided America with an irrefutable demonstration of technical might, effected entirely by our population of wage slaves, that Marxism's scientifically planned society could NEVER approach and has never approached to this day. Why these ideas were allowed to wither and die on the vine is something that politicians from both sides of the aisle have much to answer for.

The current administration, despite its willingness to address global terrorism, nonetheless is essentially mute regarding why American values are superior to Europe's socialism or the numerous MME (Muslim Middle East) cesspits that pass for governments. The harm this has done to our moral capital and persuasive ability is incalcuable and Bush has much to answer for in his ungainly silence.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-13 15:39|| 2007-04-13 15:39|| Front Page Top

#10 *sigh* Would that I were truly ever-intelligent -- I wouldn't have to apologize for saying stupid things nearly so often... but it's awfully sweet of you to say so, Bobby. And I do have to admit I wouldn't give nearly so strong an impression of intelligence had I not had the benefit of a Rantburg education!

Posted by trailing wife 2007-04-13 17:14|| 2007-04-13 17:14|| Front Page Top

#11 "The current administration, despite its willingness to address global terrorism, nonetheless is essentially mute regarding why American values are superior to Europe's socialism or the numerous MME (Muslim Middle East) cesspits that pass for governments. The harm this has done to our moral capital and persuasive ability is incalcuable and Bush has much to answer for in his ungainly silence."

Bush has a lot of shortcomings in my opinion, but assigning him any kind of unique responsibility for a failure to promote American values over Euro socialism or Islamic totalitarianism is grossly unfair.

Congress has done far less than he has in that regard; and the entire Democratic Party, along with its MSM propagandists and its Leftist indoctrination cadres in our universities, have devoted their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honors to not only denigrating those values abroad, but destroying them at home as well.

So before you grab the red-hot tongs and testicle crushers and go charging off after George W. Bush, remember there are a few hundred thousand Leftist scumbags who need to be "processed" first for their far larger crimes.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-04-13 17:23|| 2007-04-13 17:23|| Front Page Top

#12 For what it's worth, Vice President Cheney spoke up twice today against Democratic ideas on the War on Terror and the Iraq troop withdrawal deadline. In a speech to the Heritage Foundation in Chicago he said, "The prevailing mindset, combined with a series of ill-considered actions in the House and Senate over the last several months, causes me to wonder whether today`s Democratic leaders fully appreciate the nature of the danger this country faces in the war on terror -- a war that was declared against us by jihadists, a war in which the United States went on offense after 9/11, a war whose central front, in the opinion and actions of the enemy, is Iraq."

The UPI article continues
Earlier, in an interview on a Chicago radio station, Cheney attacked House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., for her visit to Syria and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., for allegedly reversing himself on a pledge not to vote to cut off funding for U.S. forces in Iraq.

Posted by trailing wife 2007-04-13 18:07|| 2007-04-13 18:07|| Front Page Top

#13
With regard to the Vietnam war, one of the truly sad things is that the captains of American industry did not come forward and openly address why it was so important to fight communism.

Another of the truly sad things is that the leaders of the syndicates did not come forward to openly address why it was so importnat to fight communism. Nowhere was the working calls so brutally opressed, nopwhere was worker's safety so cynically disregarded (cf Tchernobyl, cf Russians's method of clearing minefields) thaan in the so called "workers paradise". And that even without counting for Gulag whose main purpose was not as an instrument of political represssion but as a disguised form of restablishing slavery: Gulag had production goals set by the Plan and local sections of NKVD has goals for number of arrests in order to feed Gulag's needs for workforce. Slavery that was communists had in reserve for the workers.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-04-13 19:12|| 2007-04-13 19:12|| Front Page Top

#14 by "syndicates" I assume you mean Unions, JFM. If so, your cynicism is well placed. Collectivism rewards membership, not exceptional performance...
If some workers are "lost", while the dues-paying base increases, the Union leadership is fine with that. It's only the bottom line that counts...and yes, I ~~have to~~ belong to a Union

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-13 19:21|| 2007-04-13 19:21|| Front Page Top

#15 Congress has done far less than he has in that regard; and the entire Democratic Party, along with its MSM propagandists and its Leftist indoctrination cadres in our universities, have devoted their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honors to not only denigrating those values abroad, but destroying them at home as well.

Agreed, in spades. It's just that, as president, Bush has the ultimate Bully Pulpit and his use of it has been nothing short of dismal. Part of strong leadership is the ability to elucidate the "whys and wherefors" of a political platform or agenda. Whatever the man's shortcomings, and they were many, JFK's speeches resonated to a far more sifnificant degree, both in their delivery and content. On his watch, Bush has seen this country confronted with far greater perils than Kennedy ever did. If he cannot craft the language needed to guide more Americans towards a fuller comprehension of those dangers, it represents a serious deficiency.

So before you grab the red-hot tongs and testicle crushers and go charging off after George W. Bush, remember there are a few hundred thousand Leftist scumbags who need to be "processed" first for their far larger crimes.

Hyperbole ill suits a man of your obvious intelligence, Dave D.. If you consider what I'm saying, you'd understand that I would rather see Bush be more successful at the vital missions of his administration. Again, all the petty criminals you mention DO NOT have such tremendous leverage at their behest. Bush does and somehow cannot find the proper fulcrum to shift this nation's opinion on topics crucial to its very survival. It is this groping that has beset his administration with a less than inspiring aura.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-13 20:18|| 2007-04-13 20:18|| Front Page Top

#16 I too wish we could disappear for a couple of months to give them a taste of what itd be like without our stabilizing influence.

Until we get a more unified front at home, thats got to be very nearly impossible. The left would unhinge itself about a.) not leaving completely, and b.) allowing the slaughter to go on while we hid out on the bases. And thatd be out of both sides of their mouths at the same time. It might be fun to see Pelosi and her ilk melt down in confusion. After all, its what they wanted, right? Protect the troops, you said, no? Let the Iraqis stand up for themselves, right? It is delicious to contemplate!

My own point, precisely, Bobby.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-13 20:22|| 2007-04-13 20:22|| Front Page Top

#17 "Hyperbole ill suits a man of your obvious intelligence, Dave D."

Was that an attempt at wry humor? You have looked in a mirror lately, haven't you? LOL!!!!!

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-04-13 21:03|| 2007-04-13 21:03|| Front Page Top

#18 I'm just tired of being accused of BDS. Like I said, I just wish that Bush was more successful at making this country aware of the menace that Islam represents. I'm not the only one who feels this way either.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-13 21:18|| 2007-04-13 21:18|| Front Page Top

#19 We all wish the president were better at handling the vicious, ill-wishing press and politicians. But he isn't, and now others like the Vice President and Senator McCain are stepping into the gap -- even we who just talk quietly and knowledgeably to those in our circle who have started to question the conventional wisdom.

Dave D, would it help if I said your intelligence isn't at all obvious? ;-) Although your hyperbole was practically poetic...

Posted by trailing wife 2007-04-13 22:04|| 2007-04-13 22:04|| Front Page Top

#20 Dave D, would it help if I said your intelligence isn't at all obvious? ;-) Although your hyperbole was practically poetic...

no. DD is a smart dude. It's his restraint that's admirable *sucking noises*

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-13 22:09|| 2007-04-13 22:09|| Front Page Top

#21 Restraint? What's that?

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-04-13 22:14|| 2007-04-13 22:14|| Front Page Top

#22 Restraint? What's that?

the "accessories" you normally wear at night in the O-Club?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-13 22:25|| 2007-04-13 22:25|| Front Page Top

#23 "Dave D, would it help if I said your intelligence isn't at all obvious?"

Immensely. Words simply cannot express what enormous relief that gives me...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-04-13 22:29|| 2007-04-13 22:29|| Front Page Top

#24 I can't choose a preference between compliments I've received:

"you're not as smart as you look"
or
"you're dumber than you look"

but I'm thinking of having one or the other on my tombstone...whadya think?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-13 22:51|| 2007-04-13 22:51|| Front Page Top

#25 Frank, when you come up with something on par with Dave D.'s options list, let me know. You're more than good at snark, but endurance isn't necessarily your strong suit.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-13 22:59|| 2007-04-13 22:59|| Front Page Top

#26 I find endurance (long posts?) is overrated. My longevity and consistency is my best suit. I'm comfortable with who I am. I amuse some, educate fewer, disappoint more. Call it my ex-marriage writ large

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-13 23:04|| 2007-04-13 23:04|| Front Page Top

#27 "but I'm thinking of having one or the other on my tombstone...whadya think?"

Ya gotta get the Hawaian shirt in there somehow...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-04-13 23:12|| 2007-04-13 23:12|| Front Page Top

#28 you're right..what was I thinking?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-13 23:17|| 2007-04-13 23:17|| Front Page Top

#29 Well I know what I think: I think I'm going to bed. G'nite...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-04-13 23:31|| 2007-04-13 23:31|| Front Page Top

#30 nite DD. Me too

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-13 23:34|| 2007-04-13 23:34|| Front Page Top

#31 FOX > BARNES [paraphrased]- the Democrats are seriously looking for "Watergate" but thus far have only a dubious "Watergate without a break-in" agz Dubya. "At least wid the real Watergate, somebody got arrested - right now all they have as to physical evidence are on-going, unsubstantiated, mostly pro-DemoLeft Media criticisms of KARL ROVE".

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-04-13 23:59|| 2007-04-13 23:59|| Front Page Top

23:59 JosephMendiola
23:49 JosephMendiola
23:47 JosephMendiola
23:44 JosephMendiola
23:38 JosephMendiola
23:34 Frank G
23:31 Dave D.
23:30 badanov
23:18 Zenster
23:17 Swamp Blondie
23:17 Frank G
23:12 Dave D.
23:09 Frank G
23:04 Frank G
23:04 Zenster
23:02 Frank G
22:59 Zenster
22:58 crosspatch
22:51 Frank G
22:43 Jackal
22:36 SR-71
22:35 CrazyFool
22:33 Jackal
22:29 Dave D.