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2005-10-18 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by Steve 2005-10-18 11:41|| || Front Page|| [7 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Campaign 08 has begun.

Posted by Shipman 2005-10-18 12:15|| 2005-10-18 12:15|| Front Page Top

#2 Gee, ya suppose Bush is finally catching on?

Can't say. Even tho Mr. Chertoff is a member of the current administration, it's him saying this, and not the Prez.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-10-18 12:17|| 2005-10-18 12:17|| Front Page Top

#3 Pardon my skepticism - the Feds have left the back door open (and it's still open) and have yet to do Jack about the problem. I'll believe Chertoff when I see some ACTION backing these words.

Posted by DMFD 2005-10-18 12:18|| 2005-10-18 12:18|| Front Page Top

#4 "Today, a non-Mexican illegal immigrant caught trying to enter the United States across the southwest border has an 80 percent chance of being released immediately because we lack the holding facilities,"

STAKES AND ROPE!!!! Strap em' to desert floor for a week!!!!

Posted by ARMYGUY 2005-10-18 12:22|| 2005-10-18 12:22|| Front Page Top

#5 If our troops can live in common accommodations in Iraq for months on end, then illegals can put up with nothing better while they await their transportation out. Any federal judge who declares otherwise should have his name before the House judiciary committee for impeachment the very next day.

Posted by Slolutch Glith4065 2005-10-18 12:27|| 2005-10-18 12:27|| Front Page Top

#6 When big money finally comes out in favor of draining the cheap labor pool, I'll actually believe this. And we all know where campaign financing comes from, so don't hold your breath.

Posted by Zenster 2005-10-18 12:39|| 2005-10-18 12:39|| Front Page Top

#7 Maybe our returning the Republican's fund solititations with the notation "sorry, nothing from me until you fix the immigration problem" is beginning to get through some very thick skulls.

Also, Chertoff should ask about renting space from Joe Arpaio.

Posted by GK 2005-10-18 12:55|| 2005-10-18 12:55|| Front Page Top

#8 For Americas sake Make sure you do let people in who are Americans born in the wrong country.

Perhaps an immigration auction would be an excellent idea and raise pots of cash?

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2005-10-18 13:01|| 2005-10-18 13:01|| Front Page Top

#9 If anyone thought this was a serious policy change, the Mexican immigration groups would be going to the mattresses.

My cleaning lady from El Salvador says, "They talk big. They never do nothing."

Posted by usmc6743 2005-10-18 13:14|| 2005-10-18 13:14|| Front Page Top

#10 Maybe our returning the Republican's fund solititations with the notation "sorry, nothing from me until you fix the immigration problem" is beginning to get through some very thick skulls.

Frank's program..and I've followed up with two such replys. "Until you STFB no more money from me."

usmc6743, If anyone thought this was a serious policy change, the Mexican immigration groups would be going to the mattresses

My cleaning lady from El Salvador says, "They talk big. They never do nothing."

nope, ima not taken the ironic bait. Not gonna do it..nope, wouldn't be prudent.

Posted by Bush Sr. 2005-10-18 13:35|| 2005-10-18 13:35|| Front Page Top

#11 it'll happen as long as the people demand it. If you don't write the letters, cut off your contributions to congresscritters who don't toe this line, then you have NO-ONE to blame but yourself. Talk is cheap. I've done the above things and they work...bit by bit, take back your country

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-10-18 15:04|| 2005-10-18 15:04|| Front Page Top

#12 Chertoff might want to be Prez. With this, he may have just entered the race in a big way.

Posted by Snump Phomomp6162 2005-10-18 15:16|| 2005-10-18 15:16|| Front Page Top

#13 "Good luck with that."
"Follow the money."

Posted by Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom 2005-10-18 15:42|| 2005-10-18 15:42|| Front Page Top

#14 Or will they simply give Amnesty to all the illegals -- making them legal......

I say open up some detention camps out in the desert. This is not based on race or religion but LEGAL STATUS!

Then ship the mexicans by rail - others by the cheapest means possible.

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-10-18 16:28|| 2005-10-18 16:28|| Front Page Top

#15 Ah Bright Pebbles, I do believe you might have a major two-fer winner there...one million places available at (say) $500,000 = 500 billion. Not bad change that...

I've always been amazed by the letter writing campaigns I hear of in the States, that do on occasion seem to change policy....it doesn't happen much here I'm afraid!

Posted by Tony (UK) 2005-10-18 16:52|| 2005-10-18 16:52|| Front Page Top

#16 I hope Michael Chertoff means what he says. In the meantime, Frank's idea of writing to the President, the RNC, and campaign offices for Senators and Representatives about witholding campaign contributions is a good one. The more letters the merrier and more effective it will be. Nothing gets one's attention than hitting them in their pocketbook.

All this crap about overwhelming the system is:
CRAP
We can go halfway around the world in GW1 in a huge logistical effort and make it happen (hats off to Gus Pagonis).
We can do the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq.
There is no reason why we cannot do the same effort in stopping and removing illegals in this country. We just need the political will.

1. Seal the border.
2. Enforce the laws against hiring illegals. Hit the employers that hire illegals in their pocket books. They will get the message.
3. Illegals cannot get driver's licenses, so they cannot get into the system through the back door.
4. Change the laws so that children born into this country of illegals cannot get citizenship.
5. Illegals that entered this country are not allowed to become US citizens.
6. State and local governments that disregard Federal regulations concerning illegals lose their federal funding and have to go through a pain in the ass recertifying process to get it back.
7. Offer free trips back to the homeland for illegals.
8. Set rational quotas for legal immigrants, favor people with talents in demand in this country.
9. Confiscate money that illegals make.

The trick is to take the financial incentives out of illegals.

Sealing the borders stops the new illegals.
Taking the financial incentives out of illegals staying here drives the illegals that are here out, and makes it tough to stay here. All we need is the will.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-10-18 17:14|| 2005-10-18 17:14|| Front Page Top

#17 Forgot a few:

10. Children of illegals in this country are not entitled to govt funded education.
11. Illegals can get emergency care. After all, we are not inhumane. However, they will be deported after first aid in the ER.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-10-18 17:17|| 2005-10-18 17:17|| Front Page Top

#18 What bullshit!

Posted by Bardo 2005-10-18 17:22|| 2005-10-18 17:22|| Front Page Top

#19 In what way Bardo?

Posted by Tony (UK) 2005-10-18 17:24|| 2005-10-18 17:24|| Front Page Top

#20 Don't have the facilities to hold em? Contract it out to that Arizona Sheriff who's got prisoners sleeping in tents. He'd do it at bargain rates.

Hold the illegals for 6 months while we sort things out. If they see a serious economic threat (no money for 6 months) they may be less willing to cross illegally in the first place.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-10-18 17:59|| 2005-10-18 17:59|| Front Page Top

#21 Tony: pardon my writer's lack of being specific. I don't believe anything will change. Nothing will be done. The commenters on this post have great suggestions but nothing will come of Chertoff's comment. The Republicans let em in and the Demmies register them.

Posted by Bardo 2005-10-18 18:10|| 2005-10-18 18:10|| Front Page Top

#22 Michelle Malkin's Immigration Blog is all over this...

The headline is entirely wrong - only non-mexican illegals would be deported. And..

The Cabinet officials emphasized that the president strongly opposed an amnesty for illegal aliens, and Chertoff agreed with Kennedy that trying to deport all illegal immigrants would not be possible. "It would take billions and billions and billions of dollars to do it," Chertoff said.

...

Ending illegal immigration means both tough enforcement and action to reduce the very demand that draws illegal migrants into the country. Therefore, our strategy of reforming our immigration system is a three-pillar, comprehensive approach that focuses on controlling the border, building a robust interior enforcement program, and establishing a Temporary Worker Program.

That's the new word for their "guest" worker program. A question: what happens when those "temporary" workers have U.S. citizen children? Does anyone in their right mind think that we would be able to deport mixed families if they don't want to return?

Can't you just imagine Sen. Teddy Kennedy joining with Rep. Nancy Pelosi to propose an "adjustment" of their status allowing these millions of formerly "temporary" workers to stay here permanently?

Isn't anyone who would call them "Temporary" workers just lying to you?

YES!

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-10-18 18:36|| 2005-10-18 18:36|| Front Page Top

#23 So, Chertoff's comment was not policy now, just a rogue comment left to lie on the rug like a turd? I don't think so. It's a trial balloon if nothing else. Push it along, don't just cynically say "nuthin's gonna happen so why bother?" You don't make Chertoff's rank and make total policy statement revisions without being fired or rebuked the next minute...let's see what happens

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-10-18 18:39|| 2005-10-18 18:39|| Front Page Top

#24 Text of his prepared speech here.

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-10-18 18:44|| 2005-10-18 18:44|| Front Page Top

#25 So what do we do, Bardo? Sit on the sidelines, throw up our hands and do nothing? Hell, the Minutemen made a plan, hit the borders and showed that intercepting illegals could be done well enough to basically stop the movements of illegals in that area of operations. They shamed the Federal Government into some action.

In the case of the lackadaisical attitude toward illegals by government officials and agencies, we need to get their attention. So they need pressure---real pressure. When the people lead, the leaders will follow. We have to get off our collective asses first to get our so-called leaders off their collective asses. It all starts with a neuron firing, an idea. Then we write letters, withold campaign funds, field up some observers, get people fired up on the true cost of this cheap labor. Show how everyone is hurt when illegals start parasiting off the system.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-10-18 18:48|| 2005-10-18 18:48|| Front Page Top

#26 The Minutemen are still out there, on both the southern and northern borders now.They've got a website or a blog or something, but have given up publicizing their activities because it attracts too much of the wrong kind of activist attention. ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-10-18 19:05|| 2005-10-18 19:05|| Front Page Top

#27 Alaska Paul: You, and all those who be activists are right; yes, the sqeeking wheel gets the grease. Lets do all we can and then some. But I feel this, our major problem, is too entrenched. You would not believe what it looks like where I live. Burka-Beserka. Its part of our economy; you think the "business party" will tackle this. Or that "drivers license," party. Apart from all that go for it. Heh heh I'll write Hillary now.

Posted by Bardo 2005-10-18 19:16|| 2005-10-18 19:16|| Front Page Top

#28 Alaska Paul: You, and all those who be activists are right; yes, the sqeeking wheel gets the grease. Lets do all we can and then some. But I feel this, our major problem, is too entrenched. You would not believe what it looks like where I live. Burka-Beserka. Its part of our economy; you think the "business party" will tackle this. Or that "drivers license," party. Apart from all that go for it. Heh heh I'll write Hillary now.

Posted by Bardo 2005-10-18 19:19|| 2005-10-18 19:19|| Front Page Top

#29 Thanks for the update Bardo, I think you have a point that the two parties in the US both have 'reasons' for allowing illegals into the country, but I still stand by my final para - there is this (at least to this Anglospheric guy) 'unusual sanity' in the US whereby you can (a) write your representative and tell 'em they're out unless they do something (and have a bloody decent chance that the shyster will do something about it - I'm not so naive to believe that all politicos in the US are as the driven snow ;) ) and/or (b) go down to the border and say "No, you're not coming in, and we're taking you to the Sheriff".

Wow.

We simply don't have that (anymore). We're not allowed to defend ourselves (or our borders) and our MPs don't give a monkeys.

Just keep the pressure up on Chertoff to stand by his words - *regardless* of the race of the illegal.

And Bright Pebbles *still* has the right idea! :)

Posted by Tony (UK) 2005-10-18 19:34|| 2005-10-18 19:34|| Front Page Top

#30 Bardo---Politicos like Hillary have and agenda and bend with the wind. We must start with a base and build upon it. It will probably not include Hillary at the start. She can get aboard or stay out of the way. I agree that things are very entrenched. We have had this liberal giveaway-no-responsibility-everyone-a-victim-BS since the sixties. Two generations of it. But we must try or we will lose this country. This is a make-it or break-it issue for the country. We cannot sustain the influx and have the country survive. Maybe we need Gen. Honare for President, so he can get people stuck on stupid-----off stupid. Heh.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-10-18 19:39|| 2005-10-18 19:39|| Front Page Top

#31 Us emigration pondering certainly UKers know how to run the US!

Pity we can't run for President!

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2005-10-18 19:55|| 2005-10-18 19:55|| Front Page Top

#32 Nah Pebbles, thems Yanks got it right - no way can they get Blair (who was born in Edinburgh!) running the show! :)

Posted by Tony (UK) 2005-10-18 20:14|| 2005-10-18 20:14|| Front Page Top

#33 Every "illegal" steals a place from a "real American to be" out there in the world who knows what this country can offer. They are better than a lot of our homegrown jerks. Post #16 starts a great list. Personnally I say place strategic landmines and open the Front Door to those who want in the right way. Worth the fight.

Posted by Bardo 2005-10-18 20:39|| 2005-10-18 20:39|| Front Page Top

#34 Bright Pebbles, would you take Secretary of State (cf. Henry Kissinger and Colin Powell) or Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (Colin Powell again), or head of a great many Fortune 500 companies (Procter&Gamble, Chrysler(?)-Mercedes)? Or perhaps you'd like to run a university somewhere, or be a U.S. Senator? There are lots of opportunities for the willing on this side of the Pond! :-)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-10-18 20:44|| 2005-10-18 20:44|| Front Page Top

#35 Oh, and for some reason a British (or Aussie/Colonial) accent is considered sexy.

Just sayin'!

Posted by trailing wife 2005-10-18 20:47|| 2005-10-18 20:47|| Front Page Top

#36 AP said: "Hell, the Minutemen made a plan, hit the borders and showed that intercepting illegals could be done well enough to basically stop the movements of illegals in that area of operations. They shamed the Federal Government into some action."

From talking with a Border Patrol guy in a very active sector in AZ, it sounds like what happened is they scared the Federales (Mexican kind) into taking action. The BP guys could easily see the Federales operating on the other side to divert and prevent traffic from crossing into areas where the Minutemen had set up shop.

Posted by Classical_Liberal 2005-10-18 21:11|| 2005-10-18 21:11|| Front Page Top

#37 This is such any easy problem to solve...and I a, really disappointed with Bush. He's letting the country down and is not upholding the Constitution.

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2005-10-18 21:33|| 2005-10-18 21:33|| Front Page Top

#38 Tony: Ah Bright Pebbles, I do believe you might have a major two-fer winner there...one million places available at (say) $500,000 = 500 billion. Not bad change that...

I think 500K is a bit hefty. The market rate is about $50K - roughly what the average illegal immigrant from overseas (not the Americas) will pay to enter the country. I say make the entry fee $50K capped at one million places. $50B a year ought to allow DHS to hire more immigration officers and build more detention facilities. Instead of the H1-B process for hiring foreign professionals, require foreign applicants to pay $100K for a green card, and provide 200,000 places. If employers really need these people, they will pony up the cash. If they don't, the potential foreign employees will borrow the cash if they have to.

Posted by Elmenter Snineque1852 2005-10-18 21:34|| 2005-10-18 21:34|| Front Page Top

#39 To solve the problem, we need to attack the economic supports for the illegals. First, no one should be allowed to send money to Mexico except through the Federal Government. Second, employers who hire illegals should be fined and/or imprisoned. This includes those who hire day laborers, those who hire nannies, those who hire construction workers, etc. Third, eliminate the anchor baby rule. Children born to parents illegally in the country are NOT citizens. Fourth, eliminate the taxpayer subsidies to the illegals: welfare, medical care, free schooling for their children, etc.. If we do that, the flood will drop to a trickle. Problem is there is neither enough grey matter or enough testosterone in Government to do any of the above.

Posted by RWV 2005-10-18 22:41|| 2005-10-18 22:41|| Front Page Top

#40 Perhaps ....

I work for a major financial services company that has decided that importing foreign talent is too expensive, regardless, and is now in the process of "off-shoring" these same jobs back to foreign locales.

While I am as Right as Genghis, our domestic barons of capital are determined to take advantage of this administration's hands-off policy to establish facts on the ground, overseas, before legislators get the chance to feel any electoral pain.

One company I know of even has some executive f*cktards talking about putting a major data center in red China - to process U.S. securities transactions. This same company hires landscaping contractors that employ illegal status Mexicans - all in plain view.

This "off-shoring" is merely the other side of the illegal immigration coin - until employers are stiffly sanctioned - for exercising private foreign policy with regard to a dangerous enemy - red China - as well as for providing the demand side to the illegal immigration problem - nothing will change.

I have argued for a while that the current GOP has earned its wins from the support of the broad middle class - the normal people, and it is high time to ask the tranzi, yes tranzi, big business faction of the party to take a walk.

Posted by IT Insider 2005-10-18 22:59|| 2005-10-18 22:59|| Front Page Top

#41 That's OK IT Insider, .com has some sort of sooper-dooper DNA scan that not only does an immediate field test that's 100% infallible because it compares ALL alleles of EVERY suspect, not just enough to establish probability, but it's also strong enough to determine citizinship too! We'll get those nasty non-citizens that way, and then we'll test for tranzis!

It's OK .com, fuck you too. Oh, is it only 2 minutes to midnight? Oh, I'm sorry, that's too bad.

Posted by walksthroughwalls 2005-10-18 23:59|| 2005-10-18 23:59|| Front Page Top

23:59 walksthroughwalls
23:49 anon1
23:00 Bardo
22:59 IT Insider
22:54 Bardo
22:53 2b
22:48 Bardo
22:41 RWV
22:23 Zenster
22:17 DMFD
22:13 Alaska Paul
22:07 meeps
21:42 Shung Ulinetle1258
21:40 wxjames
21:35 3dc
21:34 Elmenter Snineque1852
21:33 anymouse
21:31 anymouse
21:26 Angeter Thraviting2029
21:22 3dc
21:15 Chuck Simmins
21:11 Classical_Liberal
20:50 Frank G
20:47 trailing wife