Article

2005-09-18 Europe

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Seafarious 2005-09-18 01:19|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Say whatever you will about Germany's current foreign policy WRT the U.S., it is one heck of a contrast with the 1933-45 period.

Consider further that historicaly speaking, represenative democracy is alien to Germany (see Kaiser, 30 years war, Metternich(sp?), et. al.) our attempt to transplant democracy to such a place seems to have worked reasonably well. I hope this bodes well for our chances here in the middle east.

Good luck to all in Germany, and may you have many sucessful (and peaceful!) elections in the future.

Posted by N Guard 2005-09-18 05:03|| 2005-09-18 05:03|| Front Page Top

#2 "Germany is a quagmire and we should pull our troops out immediately." -- Cindy Sheehan, et al.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-09-18 11:11|| 2005-09-18 11:11|| Front Page Top

#3 If they re-elect Schroeder (who advertised on TV using US Flag draped coffins) we know where we stand with Germany.

Posted by DMFD 2005-09-18 11:21|| 2005-09-18 11:21|| Front Page Top

#4 Links for the election:
http://tinyurl.com/cnrqu
"On election day, CNN will be live in Germany as the results unfold starting at 1530 GMT (1730 CET)."
http://tinyurl.com/datq8
General CNN German Election news items.
http://tinyurl.com/c7e6f
Deutsche Welle Election news.
http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/germany.htm
Online German newspapers.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-09-18 11:36|| 2005-09-18 11:36|| Front Page Top

#5 Betfair have Angela Merkel's CDU on $1.01
i.e around 90/1 on and Schroeder on about $20
Yhis is about as guaranteed as you can get under the Efficient Market Hypothesis.
It has been 100 % correct over the last 6 years that I've tracking it.

Posted by Groluns Snoluter6338 2005-09-18 12:53|| 2005-09-18 12:53|| Front Page Top

#6 I will be looking for property in the United States

Posted by True German Ally 2005-09-18 13:01|| 2005-09-18 13:01|| Front Page Top

#7 Check out Roosevelt Lake,TGA.Property price are low,and the lake is fantastic.About 350 miles of shoreline,with good fishing and all the other water sports too.

Posted by raptor 2005-09-18 13:30|| 2005-09-18 13:30|| Front Page Top

#8 CDU/CSU: 35.3
FDP: 10.1

SPD: 34.1
Greens: 8.1
Left: 8.5

Posted by True German Ally 2005-09-18 13:53|| 2005-09-18 13:53|| Front Page Top

#9 The area around Richmond, Virginia, is nice, TGA (but steer clear of the city itself).

Though perhaps a little humid in the summer. ;-p

Here's hoping you don't actually need to start looking....

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2005-09-18 14:35|| http://www.ariellestjohndesigns.com]">[http://www.ariellestjohndesigns.com] 2005-09-18 14:35|| Front Page Top

#10 TGA - 5% short of sanity. And I'm not pointing fingers - we were only sane by about 3% here, last time... and it should've been 23% or 33%. Gullible dipshits.

Are you kidding about the property? Check out places like Panama - they are particularly generous to expats who will build a home. A site which has a wealth of info on relocating to foreign locales, though it is also trying to sell properties, is EscapeArtist.

Meandering off-topic and into troubled waters... Sure, why not? It's Sunday, things are kinda slow and folks are being thoughtful and all that civilized stuff. Yeah. A month ago I would have recommended the US, but I our situation is little better, as I said above, and will now deteriorate. Perhaps quickly. I know some / many will disagree with this, but hey - it's Rantburg. Cool.

So how about a little apocalyptic scenario speculation... I find it more than ironic that a natural disaster, something in which we excel - due to the number we endure regularly, would be the crux of the tip-over, but I do. Since the 2000 election the Moonbats have searched frantically for the charge that will stick - and they've tried everything under the sun, and tried every means of creating one from whole cloth. And now Bush simply handed it to them on a silver platter with his admission of some responsibility. Some. Hell, he'll get it ALL. Relentlessly. Even those who see through the spin and partisanship will be inundated in the toxic floodwaters of the MSM.

Certainly, Bush's presidency will not accomplish diddley-squat in the remaining 3.5 years. Big Mo (momentum for non-US folks) will soon change to a Blue jersey and is already running the other way.

Just watch the distance that Pub politicians start putting between themselves and the Bush admin. RINOville's population will grow dramatically. We will see an "incompetence" campaign of spin, lies, distortion, and blame that the Pubs won't be able to counter. Pathetic, but nothing is beneath them - as the casket pictures demonstrated. Think our Moonbats are any more principled? Lol - same ANSWER school of propaganda.

Everything, low-tax prosperity, the WoT, immigration, the entire lot of issues will be sidelined in a feeding frenzy. Some assclown like Hillary will win in 2008 - and we may never recover... I suggest that if we do, it will be because we have a Second Civil War. And I mean a bloody no-shit event. This will be triggered by the efforts to subjugate the US to the UN / Tranzi wet-dream BS. Enough folks, armed and Jacksonian, will "object" and choose to fight, not flee or kow-tow. The outcome, well, I haven't a clue since the US Mil would be under the control of the wrong side - and that's a choice that those most principled Americans will struggle with mightily before deciding. And who knows - maybe German citizens will have "gotten it" by then - and come to our rescue. Heh.

I think the Fat Lady's name is Katrina.

Grins, TGA, heh.

Posted by .com 2005-09-18 14:39|| 2005-09-18 14:39|| Front Page Top

#11 Check the results he just posted. He needs to leave. Gerd can put together a governement if he services Oscar Lafontaine well enough. And he'd do it just to stay in office. This one isn't over, yet.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-09-18 14:41|| 2005-09-18 14:41|| Front Page Top

#12 It seems re-unification is now biting Germany in the ass, economically and politically. Someone like Merkel, an easterner, can't win the trust of the west, and does not have the support of the east. The result is....Schroeder (and more political chaos to come).

Posted by Rafael 2005-09-18 17:42|| 2005-09-18 17:42|| Front Page Top

#13 Exactly Rafael. You can find the German election map at the right sidebar.

Posted by ed 2005-09-18 17:50|| 2005-09-18 17:50|| Front Page Top

#14 Let your heart rest easy PD.

Posted by Bobby Lee 2005-09-18 17:59|| 2005-09-18 17:59|| Front Page Top

#15 Thanks for the link ed. Looks like Stuttgart, the brains behind German engineering, is voting SPD...again. Sad, really sad. I hope their "investment" in Schroeder pays off. It hasn't so far, but maybe this time around :-)

Bavaria, OTOH... from now on I only fly through Munich! (Frankfurt had been my choice earlier)

Posted by Rafael 2005-09-18 18:20|| 2005-09-18 18:20|| Front Page Top

#16 I wonder the coffin ad made a difference? If so, I write the whole place off. Pull our troops out, then take off and nuke the place from orbit. It's the only way to make sure.

Posted by Jackal">Jackal 2005-09-18 20:28|| home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html] 2005-09-18 20:28|| Front Page Top

#17 Germany is cooked. Pull our troops out now, but first get a iron clad agreement they will never sue up for "enviromental damages" for any contamination any and of our former facilities. They are planing to do this by the way.

Shut down all bases even the hospitals, do it in months not years. Spend that money at home. Send our wounded home don't treat them in Germany. Get us out of NATO. NATO is over none of our "partners" are willin to pull their own weight. With the monety we save we can build a bigger more deployable military so we don't have to rely on anyone, anywhere anytime. We also will not be restrained by their tolarance of evil.

Screw Germany and the German back stabbers.

Posted by Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom 2005-09-18 20:29|| 2005-09-18 20:29|| Front Page Top

#18 The coffin ad was a cheap shot, but this time around domestic issues were at the forefront in this election, imo. I wouldn't interpret this election result as Germany's re-affirmation of Schroeder's foreign policy. They have much bigger, domestic problems to be concerned about. It came down to: who would you trust more to fix things, Merkel or Schroeder? It seems Germans aren't sure.

Posted by Rafael 2005-09-18 20:46|| 2005-09-18 20:46|| Front Page Top

#19 SPoD

Frankly, I have heard enouigh BS today, so I really don't need more here.

For once, this wasn't about you, about America, about US coffins. That was a very cheap ad that was only shown locally, and without the media protests against it 99% of Germans would never have seen it.

But you can really knock this troops issue now. Maybe try to ask the Landstuhl patients first if they feel attended badly, ask the Ramstein pilots whether they'd prefer to move.

US troops have remained in Germany because it continues to suit US strategic planning. They haven't been here to support the German economy or to protect the Germans from a military enemy that no longer exists.

I'm not happy the way the vote went, but anyway, Schroeder lost 4% and hadn't the CDU led a dismal campaign they would have rode to victory. They started from 48% three months ago. Then they brought in a completely amateurish tax discussion, and when things got tough deserted the guy who promoted it. Flat tax is a very interesting concept but you'd even have trouble pushing that through in the USA. Remember Forbes? Try to explain flat tax to the unemployed.

A lot of mistakes were made and I bit my tongue. I campaigned in Bavaria where Merkel was as unpopular as Senator Kennedy in Mississippi. The CSU lost almost 10% because of her.

And she lost in East Germany, where many people voted Left because they believe that they will get the promised pony. They'll find out soon enough that there is no pony.

Schroeder will not hang on to power. Today on TV he looked like a guy on cocaine while Merkel must have swallowed three Valiums. Both may not survive this day. Then new cards are dealt. Maybe we'll have another election in a month, it's all possible.

And just remember that you were only a few hundred votes short of President Gore in 2000, and 100000 votes short of President Kerry in 2004.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-09-18 21:39|| 2005-09-18 21:39|| Front Page Top

#20 Try to explain flat tax to the unemployed.

"When you get a job, you'll only have to pay a fixed percentage in taxes, regardless of what you earn."

Easily done. If they can't comprehend that, then that's probably why they're unemployed.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-09-18 21:57|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-09-18 21:57|| Front Page Top

#21 How successful is Mr Forbes in explaining this to Walmart employees?

Merkel could have done the flat tax with a sweeping victory, and we would have seen results in 4 years. But you can't campaign with it. Not in East Germany.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-09-18 22:05|| 2005-09-18 22:05|| Front Page Top

#22 But IF you campaign with the guy who promotes the flat tax and tell people that he's going to be your next finance minister, then stand by your guy.

Don't tell people that the ideas this guy has worked on for ten years won't be realized anyway. That's really stupid. What shall I tell people while campaigning? "The finance minister advocates the flat taxy which will solve your problems but we won't do it so don't worry?"

Posted by True German Ally 2005-09-18 22:09|| 2005-09-18 22:09|| Front Page Top

#23 And the last time: Germans don't pay more income taxes than Americans, believe it or not. Lower income people actually pay less. Millionaires pay 10-20% in reality because they can use a hundred loopholes.

It's the social benefits that makes German work so expensive.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-09-18 22:11|| 2005-09-18 22:11|| Front Page Top

#24 It's the social benefits that makes German work so expensive.

And unions.

Posted by Rafael 2005-09-18 22:25|| 2005-09-18 22:25|| Front Page Top

#25 TGA having forces in Germany doesn't serve our national interests in any way. We are not wanted there at all so we should leave. Our Servicemen and their families need to come home. We nede them here. A change in the German government would not have altered that.

I never made any claim that our troops were helping the German economy, I don't care either way. I suspect it's a wash or negative on the German economy in truth.

Germany's government and foreign policy is active in trying to defeat our goal of winning a war on terror. Germany wants to try and talk to the terrorist and their state supporters (Iran and Syria) and make a deal. While your government kisses the ass of Iran and makes shitty excuses. We are bleeding. Screw you and your government if you don't like it. "How you pull yourself out of the hole you are in is not our problem" as I have often read from German posters. The feeling is now mutual.

The coffin was the tiping point for me. It was a picture and idea that too many Germans apperently identify with. The sharks will not eat you last, you live closer to them than we do and the Sharks are still more afraid of us.

Posted by Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom 2005-09-18 22:29|| 2005-09-18 22:29|| Front Page Top

#26 SPoD

If it doesn't serve your national interests, WHY are you there?

The beer?

Posted by True German Ally 2005-09-18 22:43|| 2005-09-18 22:43|| Front Page Top

#27 What TGA said. Just as the lefties are wrong to assume that every issue in the world or sparrow that falls can be attributed to the sins of commission or omission of George W Bush, not every event in Germany or France is a reflection fo their attitudes toward the US. The big message from this election is a very bland, and obvious one, that really has zip to do with us: postwar Germans prefer political stalemate and economic stagnation to any real change, and certainly not radical change of the sort that a flat tax would represent for ANY advanced industrial society.

A flat tax makes sense only in basket-case polities struggling to collect any taxes at all, like the fabulously corrupt polities of the former Soviet bloc. For any advanced polity that can collect taxes and pay pensions, flat tax proposals are a sideshow. Forbes' idea went nowhere because it's largely irrelevant to the real issues, which are what's deductible and what's not, and the level and structure of other, non-income taxes such as social security (hugely regressive, in this country) and payroll taxes and the like.

The German elections need not concern us greatly. The result will of course be no real reform, and another decade of stagnation. The legacy of the twentieth century still haunts the Germans, it would appear. That's a shame, because Germany today is too weak and too adverse to radical change, for both their good and ours. We need and they need robust domestic German demand.No way in hell that it will happen now or for another ten years at least.

TGA, where are you looking? I'd recommend the southern Rockies, anywhere from Colorado Springs down to the border. Best of luck.

Posted by thibaud (aka lex) 2005-09-18 22:48|| 2005-09-18 22:48|| Front Page Top

#28 Some asshats in Washington thinks it does TGA. NATO is dead. Kill it. We should leave. We are not wanted nor is our interest servered by ignoring facts and the realities of the EU.

Posted by Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom 2005-09-18 22:56|| 2005-09-18 22:56|| Front Page Top

#29 The beer is always a good reason to be in Germany, TGA. And the Kaffeeklatches, and the Wurst, and the Broetchen, and trailing daughter #1's Kindergarten teacher, and the Zeil any Saturday, and... (Yes, we really enjoyed our time there)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-09-18 23:00|| 2005-09-18 23:00|| Front Page Top

#30 Also, for the record, we are still waiting to find out how much we owe in German taxes, and we left Europe in 1996. The U.S.-German tax treaty still has to be finalized, you see. But at any rate, our tax forms -- however tentative the calculations -- consisted of something like four pages, and read like the tax return for a small city in the U.S.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-09-18 23:03|| 2005-09-18 23:03|| Front Page Top

#31 trailing wife

If you haven't heard from the German Finanzamt yet you probably won't.

After ten years you won't owe anything.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-09-18 23:09|| 2005-09-18 23:09|| Front Page Top

#32 thibaud

It is (still) a joke. Your eminent domain laws aren't exactly encouraging either.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-09-18 23:11|| 2005-09-18 23:11|| Front Page Top

23:49 .com
23:41 bigjim-ky
23:41 3dc
23:41 .com
23:39 GK
23:38 3dc
23:37 Crick Elmuger1423
23:34 Crick Elmuger1423
23:33 GK
23:32 Crick Elmuger1423
23:27 BH
23:26 .com
23:25 Crick Elmuger1423
23:13 Crick Elmuger1423
23:12 Anonymoose
23:11 True German Ally
23:11 Crick Elmuger1423
23:09 True German Ally
23:06 anon1
23:03 trailing wife
23:01 thibaud (aka lex)
23:00 trailing wife
22:56 Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom
22:48 .com