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2004-12-07 Home Front: Politix
UC Berkeley scholar to help Democrats refine message
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Posted by Seafarious 2004-12-07 11:01:01 PM|| || Front Page|| [11136 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Ah, Lakoff and his voodoo... He won't be singing "I've got my mojo workin'", anytime soon.

The al-qubos believe that Potemkin villages are more real than reality itself. The common sense dictates that if you are in a hole, you should stop digging.
Posted by Sobiesky 2004-12-07 12:15:05 AM||   2004-12-07 12:15:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Yea we need more of you democrat "experts" talking over the hosts and fellow guests on TV. That will work really good now. You don't get it dems.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-12-07 12:29:49 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-12-07 12:29:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Berkeley academics have always had their finger on the pulse of the American people. This guy should be a big, and I mean big, help to the Dems.

Ahahahahahhaahaha!
Posted by Secret Master 2004-12-07 12:36:12 AM||   2004-12-07 12:36:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 The Dhimmidonks aren't on the periphery of public policy, Professor Moonbat, try Pluto. Words, ideas, policies and all. No wonder Madame Moonbat is on-board.

Perhaps this clown is the jester-in-waiting behind Chomsky. With statements like this: "The Republicans are so good at sticking to their talking points and not getting into minutiae, while Democrats always want to have a detailed debate." it's clear he wasn't watching the same election season the rest of us were. It's bizarre. Dhimmidonks must all come from Backasswards - a small M-class planet in the Moonbat System where everything is inverted. It must intersect with the Sol System at Pluto.
Posted by .com 2004-12-07 12:36:33 AM||   2004-12-07 12:36:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Utterly clueless. If the Dems want to get serious about a message and a platform and an organization that can win in this century, they need to build a party that's strong in the high-growth new economy sunbelt states: FL, CO-NM-AZ-NV, NC-VA-TN, TX. Forget Berkeley, think Tampa and Nashville and Colorado Springs and Phoenix and Vegas. And focus on hispanics + yuppies + active and former military families without college degrees.
Posted by lex 2004-12-07 12:42:12 AM||   2004-12-07 12:42:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 If Dems want to get serious about a message and a platform that can win this century, they can start by saying something that makes sense.
Posted by Ol_Dirty_American 2004-12-07 12:45:17 AM||   2004-12-07 12:45:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Jeez louise, can the Dummycrats get any more fargin' stupid?? Peter Beinart of the New Republic wrote a long essay in this week's edition which lays out, chapter and verse, why the Dums are screwing the pooch by clinging to the McGovern/Carter/Moore mindset on national security and foreign policy.

Between taking advice from a Berserkely leftist assnugget professor and the apparent real possibility that Screamin' Howie Dean might become the next DNC chairman, Beinart and like-minded thinking liberals (Michael Totten and our own Liberalhawk are others in this category) are just shouting into the wind. While the idea of the Copperhead Dems being treated to semipermanent exile from the Presidency and Congressional-majority status definitely has its appeal, I'm not into the idea of our country turning into a de facto one-party state. No matter how good they are, any political party needs a vigorous opposition to keep 'em honest.
Posted by Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) 2004-12-07 12:47:45 AM||   2004-12-07 12:47:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Vigorous, but loyal, Babaloo.
Posted by Sobiesky 2004-12-07 12:50:46 AM||   2004-12-07 12:50:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Beinart and like-minded thinking liberals (Michael Totten and our own Liberalhawk are others in this category) are just shouting into the wind

Not really. The party's elites, from Lieberman and Biden to Holbrooke and the New Republic editors like Beinart and Marty Peretz, are still solidly hawkish and sensible on foreign policy.

And I will contend again that it was Kerry's utter idiocy on same ("terrorism is a nuisance, like prostitution...") that caused at least 1.5-2 million Democrats like myself to desert him for Bush. Lieberman could have retained these votes and carried Florida and Ohio without losing any states in the Northeast or West Coast. So it's not at all clear that the Dems are no longer nationally-competitive; they simply need to purge the MikeyBoy and MoveOn idiots from their ranks, as Truman Dems did to Wallaceite leftists back in the late 1940s.

This will be much easier to do if the party shifts its geographic and demographic focus to ordinary, working-class folk who are pro-military and skeptical of Republican economic elitism. Hispanics are a natural and obvious target, as are middle-income families in high-growth western states. Win them over, purge the Kos idiots, and you've got a leg up on the Republicans for 2008.

Posted by lex 2004-12-07 1:01:26 AM||   2004-12-07 1:01:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 So it's not at all clear that the Dems are no longer nationally-competitive; they simply need to purge the MikeyBoy and MoveOn idiots from their ranks, ...

Um, I gently suggest that you are contradicting yourself. Until they purge the MoveOn idiots, they won't be competitive nationally.
Posted by Steve White  2004-12-07 1:09:09 AM||   2004-12-07 1:09:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Not so. My point is that the MoveOn jokers are freaks who glommed onto the party and began f*cking up its processes after 2000. What we've seen since the 2000 election is a bizarre aberration, and I'm expecting the party to return to normal DLC centrist territory in 2006 just as Truman steered the party away from flirting with communists in the late 1940s.

Note the difference between Gore's policies and behavior up until late Oct 2000 and thereafter: he had always been a solid centrist with a strong record of hawkishness and sensibly pro-Israel, pro-defense positions. Only after he decided to shift into conspiracy-mongering MoveOn mode did he depart from the standard DLC positions adhered to by the party's elite since 1992.
Posted by lex 2004-12-07 1:16:43 AM||   2004-12-07 1:16:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Sobiesky, "vigorous but loyal" should go without saying. Unfortunately, with the current crop of Quislingcrats...well, you know... ;-)

Lex, you're right about the elites (Biden, Lieberman, etc.) being "hawkish and sensible". Unfortunately, the party's hard base is pathologically isolationist. George Will and others have described liberal Dem isolatonism as being a reversed image of old-style Republican isolationism.

Many pre-WW2 Republicans believed "America is too good for the world"; the Chomskyite leftist base of today's Dems believe "the world is too good for America" and its irredeemable evils. They won't admit it (well, not publicly, anyway...), but they want America either destroyed outright, or at least hobbled and driven from the world stage.

Given the fact that the media's totally in thrall to this faction, the Beinarts, Liebermans and Holbrookes (and you, too, Liberalhawk) have one hell of a fight in front of them. I don't know if they can win this one.
Posted by Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) 2004-12-07 1:22:29 AM||   2004-12-07 1:22:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Get aboard the "B" Ark II! Hurry! The mutant star goat is back again - and he looks hungry!
Posted by .com 2004-12-07 1:34:41 AM||   2004-12-07 1:34:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Though the media does lionize the far left candidates, the bigger factor is the concentration of campaign contributions in the Dem party. I believe the top 10 Dem contributors in the last pres race gave about $100 million. What do you think is the % of total contributions by the top 100 or 1000 Dems? Mega contributors like the Progessive Insurance honcho and Soros give the receiving candidate (especially in the primaries) instant credibility, staff, and ad money. They in effect steer the Dem party to the far left candidates. If the max amount that one can give in a political season were limited to $100-1000, which is affordable for the middle class, then these mega rich far left voices would fade into the background, and a more sane candidate can thrive in the primary by the force of ideas.
Posted by ed 2004-12-07 1:50:45 AM||   2004-12-07 1:50:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 The Prof has a point although its hardly fiendishly clever and its tied in with one of those things that the media dare not mention, which is the Republicans are the party of people who work at real jobs. For them developing a plan, assigning roles and executing the plan are not novel ideas, businesses do this every day. To the Left, most of whom who have never held a real job in their entire life, working as a team to execute a plan is a foreign concept.
Posted by phil_b 2004-12-07 2:17:24 AM||   2004-12-07 2:17:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 My point is that the MoveOn jokers are freaks who glommed onto the party and began f*cking up its processes after 2000

I disagree, lex. The party may have *talked* a good game, but look at their actions. Think, for instance, about Clinton, who ran on a centrist position and then immediately did two deeply divisive things: let Hillary convene a secret healthcare nationalization planning group and pushed acceptance of gays on the military.

Clueless. many of us who voted for him learned our lesson back in 92-94 and won't be fooled again.
Posted by too true 2004-12-07 8:07:55 AM||   2004-12-07 8:07:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 I think a number of TV comics were hoping that Teresa would be the 1st lady.

But it turns out that Democrat comeback deep think can actually give Teresa a comedic run for its money. The Berkeley prof's suggestions for the Dems included language points. My favorite was that they would change 'trial attorneys' to 'public protection advocates'.
Posted by mhw 2004-12-07 9:39:07 AM||   2004-12-07 9:39:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Re Clinton

For me, it wasn't socialized healthcare or gays in the military that turned me against him-it was the ways he thought he, in the public eye as a president of the US, could treat women--ok to humiliate his wife in public with his affair and subsequent perjury about it, and ok to treat Monica as a disposable human urinal. That tells me volumes about the man and his Faustian wife and their unsuitability for the presidential office.
Posted by Jules 187 2004-12-07 10:00:49 AM||   2004-12-07 10:00:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 I, as a Republican, find this strategy unique and clearly GENIUS. Ms. Pelosi, I fearfully bow to your clever "message" and await a Dem President and Congress in 2006 or 2008 or...
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-07 10:06:29 AM||   2004-12-07 10:06:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Sobiesky said:
common sense dictates that if you are in a hole, you should stop digging.
To you and me it does, but to DemocRats, "common" sense dictates that if you are in a hole, you need to call for a backhoe so you can dig faster and deeper.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut  2004-12-07 10:37:42 AM||   2004-12-07 10:37:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 It's not a hole- it's an ooportunity!
Posted by Terry McAuliffe  2004-12-07 10:40:35 AM||   2004-12-07 10:40:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 Of course they don't get it. It has only been five weeks since the election and they are still psychologically spent. They're looking for an simple explanation that saves face and doesn't require much effort. The Berkeley professor has found an audience in House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco -- perfect. Now all they need is for Michael Moore to bless the union and Kansas will rise up in an Orange Revolution.
Posted by Tom 2004-12-07 12:41:30 PM||   2004-12-07 12:41:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Rove. Genius. Heh.
Posted by .com 2004-12-07 12:56:41 PM||   2004-12-07 12:56:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 To me, this symbolizes, in a nutshell, the difference between the liberals and conservatives. Conservatives want actions, liberals want words.

That's why they like the UN and "peace birds" and songs like Imagine. All you have to do to make them happy is to tell them that you have a new idea that will fix everything. It's a perfect, cure, new and improved....the only reason it hasn't worked yet is because not everyone's on board - but as soon as they can get the unenlightened to see the light...all will be ok.

Conservatives want actions and results. Future promises of "new and improved tonics for baldness" are disbelieved until proven true.
Posted by 2b 2004-12-07 12:57:43 PM||   2004-12-07 12:57:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Oh, great. Does this mean they're going to be dumping origami all over my yard?
Posted by Dreadnought 2004-12-07 1:26:01 PM||   2004-12-07 1:26:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Lol, DN!!!
Posted by .com 2004-12-07 1:27:55 PM||   2004-12-07 1:27:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 probably not, since the words of more murder coming out of Thailand recently doesn't fit their happy meme/dream.
Posted by 2b 2004-12-07 1:31:03 PM||   2004-12-07 1:31:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Still hung up on the words you use, eh? And you've got Howard Dean saying "Hold yer ground!"

I guess all you Dems need to do is bring us into your worldview. Go ahead. I triple-dog-dare ya.
Posted by eLarson 2004-12-07 2:32:09 PM||   2004-12-07 2:32:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 SPeaking of the target high-growth southwestern states, here's the Republican Colorado Senate Leader lamenting the Dems' recent triumphs in nearly every election except the presidential one:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/006osifb.asp

Again, there are millions of Dems who split their tickets this year and voted for Bush-Cheney. There was and is no national realignment toward the Republicans, only a pathetically screwed up Dem presidential nominating process and party dividions re the war. Fix those and you ahve a nationally competitive party again.
Posted by lex 2004-12-07 2:39:34 PM||   2004-12-07 2:39:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Military people love it when their enemy holds ground.
Posted by badanov  2004-12-07 2:39:38 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org]  2004-12-07 2:39:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Badanov, you mean...when it's shaking violently under the enemy's feet?
Posted by Sobiesky 2004-12-07 2:49:06 PM||   2004-12-07 2:49:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 This is not just PEST. The Dems were on a big lazy turn to the Left after the Clinton presidency and they turned some more after the 2000 election. But it was after the 2002 Congressional elections that they braced for the G's and made a 90 degree turn at speed to the Left.

It was Pelosi that said they had lost all those Congressional seats because they hadn't attacked the President enough!

Um, no. It's because that's all you did without providing any semblance of an alternative, you stupid little rabid poodle.

And now, they've apparently hit the nitrous. They really and truly believe that there are more nutjob moonbats out there in places like Berkeley and NYC than there are people in the 'fly-over' states. They believe their problem in not the message, but the delivery. Thus they feel they can make statements like calling the large numbers of people who voted for Bush retarded, incestuous, gun-totin' maniacs.

Every time I see Pelosi, all bug-eyed and frothing at the mouth, I mentally scream, "Put her down before she reaches the livestock!"

--PH, Two Days Without a Human Rights Violation!
Posted by Psycho Hillbilly 2004-12-07 2:58:50 PM||   2004-12-07 2:58:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 The Democratic left; Gore, John F'in', Screamin' Dean, and their Chomskyite authoritarian fellow-travellers; are products of the institutional media and the power of the fully evolved 1960s media culture.
Reality-based leaders like Biden, Lieberman, and Charles Stenholm, on the other hand, adhere to a tradition that predates the rise of the current media culture; an event that many observers date to the 1960 campaign and the election of Hollywood's candidate, John F. Kennedy.

The power of the institutional media is fading now, and its ideological allies will inevitably fade with it. The Renaissance of the Democratic Party will occur only if the party's 40 year alliance with Big Media and its devil-spawn, the pop-culture left, can be broken.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-12-07 4:38:19 PM||   2004-12-07 4:38:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Psycho HB, your sig made me laff out loud.
Posted by Seafarious  2004-12-07 4:44:11 PM||   2004-12-07 4:44:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 I find it fascinating that a party that calls itself Democrat can hold the people of this country in such utter contempt. They no longer deserve the name.
Posted by eLarson 2004-12-07 4:50:54 PM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2004-12-07 4:50:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Lex. Your static analysis is absolutely correct about this single data point. But if you look at the trend line, it ain't good for the donks and each election it gets worse. The danger for the Dems is holding on to your logic one election too long. Maybe the next one. If Bush manages to pick up congressional seats in all four elections, it may be a first.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-07 4:59:50 PM||   2004-12-07 4:59:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 The pending divorce between the Democratic Party and the MSM/pop-left will not be amicable. In classic co-dependent fashion, one of the leading abusers has recognized reality long enough to at least issue a denial:
Moore denies he hurt Kerry’s campaign
Moore's solution, in the usual manner of co-dependent enablers, is even greater dependency in the form of MORE media-cult control over the Dems.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-12-07 5:02:03 PM||   2004-12-07 5:02:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 There should be more than two parties in the US. The Dems are lost because they know their own party is a house divided. Split it up and may the party with the best ideas, from among several parties, win-the rest can duke out third fourth and fifth places in the mezzanine.
Posted by Jules 187 2004-12-07 5:16:38 PM||   2004-12-07 5:16:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Mrs D, there are three crucial domestic challenges which neither party is addressing or showing any signs of wanting to address them:

1) the health insurance catastrophe, which is driving Ford and GM (aka "HMOs on wheels" acc to Wall Street analysts) ever closer to bankruptcy and will in due course bankrupt the rest of us;

2) the immigration catastrophe, which pro-business Repubs have no desire to try to fix;

3) the weakening dollar + federal deficit mess, which is due mainly to Americans' inability to save but also due to Bush's spending binge. This along with entitlement spending is now threatening a nasty downward spiral of foreign capital withdrawals, higher interest rates, slower growth, a weakened dollar and more Treasury withdrawals etc.

The Republicans have shown zero interest in addressing these deep, fundamental challenges to our prosperity and strength. We need a serious, loyal opposition that will push hard to move these issues to the top of the agenda and propose intelligent solutions. Perhaps the Dems are incapable of providing such opposition; I don't know. But I do know that our situation is very precarious, and Bush / Rove aren't getting the job done.

I myself would prefer to see Lieberman and Giuliani and Schwarzenegger types split off from both parties and create a sensible, hawkish, centrist party that would instantly be competitive across the west, incl California, and probably Florida and Texas and the upper South as well.
Posted by lex 2004-12-07 5:31:21 PM||   2004-12-07 5:31:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 sorry..long rant:

hmmm...I kinda have to agree with Michael Moore on his point that Kerry was a bad candidate and that without the Hollywood, MSM help, he would have done even worse. Face it, this election hinged on only 600,000 votes in Ohio. Had the Dems run a candidate that was even remotely qualified, the MSM and hollywood popculture edge would have made the difference.

But that being said, I see one other thing differently. I think, that with the rise of the alternative media, the current Democratic party is as dead as the UN. It will hang around for awhile, but "the party" is far too clueless and self-perpetuating to survive. It's like Bob Jones University...too out of touch...but still enough followers that they see no need to change.

I think we will see either the rise of an independent party or the splitting of the Republican party into Shwarznegger Repub's v/s the Trent Lott Repubs.

The reason I say that is because the Democratic party doesn't have any new ideas to replace the ones that already failed back in 60's and 70's. It's like the product Draino; they keep packaging it "new and improved" and people keep retrying it cause of the advertising hooking each new sucker born every minute. Everyone uses it at least twice because it's easier and cheaper than calling a plumber. But eventually everyone finally gets a clue that it never works and never will, no matter how "new and improved" it gets.
Posted by 2b 2004-12-07 5:45:42 PM||   2004-12-07 5:45:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 but "the party" is far too clueless and self-perpetuating to survive oops..meant to say "thrive".
Posted by 2b 2004-12-07 5:49:42 PM||   2004-12-07 5:49:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 UC Berkeley scholar to help Democrats refine message

Why hire a Berkeley scholar when a cheaper alternative can be had? I can refine their message thusly:

VOTE FOR US BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO STUPID TO KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-12-07 6:19:02 PM||   2004-12-07 6:19:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 BAR..lol! I think you nailed that.
Posted by 2b 2004-12-07 6:21:03 PM||   2004-12-07 6:21:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 b-a-r, when does your lecture tour start?
Posted by Seafarious  2004-12-07 6:32:55 PM||   2004-12-07 6:32:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 Lex, I agree the phrase courageous politician is an oxymoronism.

Health insurance catastrophy. I believe the Republicans did quite a bit to rectify this problem. The process to transfer responsibility from the employer to the individual has begun. We will see more and more steps taken that hew to this theme. I am very impressed with the way Bush has handled this one.

Immigration catastrophe. I semi agree on this one. Better define what you mean by catastrophe and we might converge. This problem is diofferent in California than in Texas than in New York than as a national secuirty issue. Which catastrophe is yours?

The weakening dollar and the government deficit are two mutually exclusinve things. I agree that Bush could have done a better job with the dollar, but he wouldn't solve it, unless you want to erect trade barriers or court a recession. Likewise, the profligate spending will go on until the loyal opposition raises some flags. There is nothing a politician, regardless of party, likes to do more than to spend other people's money on his friends and supporters. The Republicans have done that. However, they have also kept a recession from sprialing out of control and fought two wars. So it's not as bad as it could be.

Finally, you did not raise, or believe Bush has resolved, the Social Secuirty crisis. Like health care, Bush has started to tackle this one by moving responsibility and control to the individual and away from the nanny state. I think this is good, though I think boomers will still end their days mostly in poverty. But at least he is trying here.

He's got a year to finish his domestic initiatives. It will be interesting to see where he decides to spend his political capital.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-07 7:11:38 PM||   2004-12-07 7:11:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 He said today, in regards to the intel bill just passed and Sensenbrenner's concerns, that the immigration issue will be first on the runway after the Christmas break.
Posted by .com 2004-12-07 7:16:31 PM||   2004-12-07 7:16:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 Health insurance is another Titanic in the making, and indiv responsibility for coverage isn't going to save us. I myself favor making insur mandatory, like auto insur, and changing coverage terms to make it focused mainly on catastrphic illness. Also increase rewards for wellness, increase co-pays for routine care and cut down on botox, acid reflux etc nonsense.

As to immigration, I'm speaking mainly of illegals. I see no major problem with large numbers of legal immigrants and would like to eliminate all immigration curbs (exc security-related ones) for anyone with an advanced science or technical degree.

Re the dollar and the deficit, they're intimately related so long as our national savings rate is low. High deficits mean high dependence on foreign capital means high vulnerability to a change in those foreign investors' perception of the risk-reward calculation for US Treasuries. It used to be that European debt was relatively unattractive to US debt, which helped convince Asian central banks to hang on to Treasuries. No more. Try reading what bond guru Bill Gross of PIMCO has to say on this. It's very, very scary, and coming at us a lot faster than you think.

Re Soc sec'y, I salute Bush's courage in trying to revise it root and branch. Would that he'd do the same with Langley.
Posted by lex 2004-12-07 7:21:17 PM||   2004-12-07 7:21:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 Lex - I'd like to see the current hoops retained on citizenship, and the scrutiny for long-term visas raised. Illegals should be shipped out forthwith and the gates closed. They bear no loyalty to this country, just the income we can provide. A pressure-relief valve for corrupt Mexico is all we are
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-07 7:39:25 PM||   2004-12-07 7:39:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 Lex, you underestimate the importance of individual responsibility explicitly, but given your comment that you want to focus on catastrophic illness indicates that you get that too much health care is waste on "patients" who think it's free or feel they have to get even with the insurance company because they haven't filed enough claims. I think HSA's and personal portable health insurance directly address these probelms better than any other solution I've heard.

On immigrations, Bush has proposed a solution of the worker cards for Mexicans that is to him and his money supporters a precondition for cracking down on illegals.

The national saviangs rate is a third issue has little to do directly with government deficits or the value of the dollar. However, Bush's tax reform proposal should address stimulating savings and reducing consumption. Bush should also get credit for eliminating the double taxation on dividends, a move that should stimulate real investing instead of capital gains speculation.

Five years ago it was surpluses as far as they eye can see. Now it's deficits as far as the eye can see. My conclusion is that analysts make more money the more extreme their forecasts, but ultimately the eye can't see very far.

The more we write, the more impressed I am with what Bush has managed to accomplish while fighting two wars.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-07 7:39:31 PM||   2004-12-07 7:39:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 I salute Bush's courage in trying to revise it root and branch. Would that he'd do the same with Langley.

I'm not sure that wasn't Goss's charter.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-07 7:42:31 PM||   2004-12-07 7:42:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 You guys and gals missed the point of the article. The fact that the Dems picked a cunning linguist from Berkeley to get them out of the ***ahem*** mess that they got themselves trapped in says volumes......
Posted by Alaska Paul  2004-12-07 11:33:36 PM||   2004-12-07 11:33:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 cunning linguist? Shheeeesh - where are the pack of cunning runts? LOL
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-07 11:44:50 PM||   2004-12-07 11:44:50 PM|| Front Page Top

00:04 Sherry
23:53 True German Ally
23:44 Frank G
23:44 Glomosing Crong
23:41 Dcreeper
23:33 Alaska Paul
23:33 Mike Kozlowski
23:26 Alaska Paul
23:18 Alaska Paul
23:13 Wo
23:11 Lone Ranger
23:10 someone
23:07 Alaska Paul
22:59 Alaska Paul
22:56 Sock Puppet of Doom
22:52 Matt
22:51 Alaska Paul
22:47 Glomosing Crong
22:43 Zenster
22:36 Zenster
22:33 SC88
22:29 Sobiesky
22:24 Sobiesky
22:21 Uninese Unineger1573









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