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2004-08-23 Home Front: Politix

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Posted by tipper 2004-08-23 02:23|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I know the Swifties, being a 527, don't have a whole lot of time before they have, by law, to take their ads off the air, but _somebody_ ought to be blaring this from the housetops. It's as devastating as Swiftie ad #2, or even more, on three grounds: 1) the author of the piece (Sydney Schanberg) can't possibly be accused of being a VRWC'er; 2) it covers things that took place during the relatively recent past in Kerry's career, so the complaint that "it was in another country, and besides the wench is dead" doesn't hold water here, and 3) it touches on one of _the_ third-rail issues in this country - P.O.W.'s and M.I.A.'s. I can't tell you how many places - including post offices - still fly P.O.W.-M.I.A. flags.

Posted by Joe 2004-08-23 5:23:43 AM|| 2004-08-23 5:23:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Yeah, except it's one of the few things on which Kerry's right, and the military families are wrong. POW-MIA belief is a type of pseudo-religious mania similar to global-warming hysteria or creationism. Yeah, you can patch together assertions in such a fashion as to approximate the appearance of facts, but it all falls to flinders if examined with any objectivity.

I respect the fervor of the POW-MIA families, and I can understand why they hate Kerry - he's an ass who's maligned their lost relatives as war-criminals. But some things are true, even if John Kerry believes them.

Posted by Mitch H. 2004-08-23 9:04:26 AM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2004-08-23 9:04:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 In 1969, for a short while I was a poorly trained machine gunner stationed on river boats in the Mekong Delta. We didn't see any swifties. Under a mortar attack one night, I scrambled out of my hootch headed toward the bunker. I slipped and fell in the mud near a road. Scrapped the hell out of my hands and one knee. Needed a bit of corpman's attention afterwards. Should I have applied for a Purple Heart too? It sounds as if Sen. Kerry earned one purple heart, the one involving real shrapnel, not three. Why "three" is a majic number is that three PH's got you out of Nam early.

Posted by Anonymous6147 2004-08-23 9:25:22 AM|| 2004-08-23 9:25:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Is the left turning on Kerry? This is from the Village Voice!!!

Its a good detailed account on how McCain and Kerry sold out the POW/MIA that were left behind in Vietnam, sold them out for political gain.

This is somethign I've been waiting to show up. And this will get very ugely for Kerry very quickly if the MSM does its job of reporting ALL the facts surrounding Kerry.

Here is the final quote from the article:

"Kerry's resolution passed, by a vote of 62 to 38. Sadly for him, the passage of ten thousand resolutions cannot make up for wants in a man's character."

Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-23 10:21:53 AM|| 2004-08-23 10:21:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 OS: Is the left turning on Kerry? This is from the Village Voice!!!

This was from February, when the Howard Dean faction was trying to get him the Democratic nomination.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-23 11:13:11 AM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-23 11:13:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 ZF - heh! The "pricipled" left.

Posted by B 2004-08-23 11:24:06 AM|| 2004-08-23 11:24:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Mitch H.: POW's "a type of pseudo-religious mania similar to global warming hysteria or creationism?" !!! You are miserably uninformed, are an idiot, or you have another agenda. I'm too young to know anybody from the 'Nam era still over there, but the offical (shredded, classified, buried) records, as well as many private investigations, have clearly shown that there were/are guys over there--lots of guys over there--that have been abandoned in favor of other political aims.

I think it's disgusting that you are attempting to disparage those who refuse to accept the party line ("POW's? What POW's?") by linking them with silly global-warming nut-jobs or religious fanatics. And even that's disengenuous of you, because there is a global warming issue (not always correctly attributed) and many scientists ascribe to a view of the origination of the universe that is similar to the one outlined in the religious texts. And neither is the information in the Village Voice about what Kerry and others did to bury the POW issue once and for all, to be discounted simply because the editors of the paper favored Howard Dean at the time, as Zhang Fei asserts. The information about Kerry and McCain's misdeeds regarding POW's was there a long time before that--the two of then are just pretty smooth about covering it up, is all, and the fact of Kerry's candidacy brought the issue up (same as SwiftVets).

Oh, uh, BTW--as I said, I have never known any POW's or MIA's, so if you're planning to demonize me with the rest of the concerned relatives, friends, and fellow-soldiers of the POW's MIA's, forget it. Now, go do your homework. Both Kerry and McCain stand to benefit financially and politically if the POW/MIA thing is quashed and relations with Vietnam "normalized."

Posted by ex-lib 2004-08-23 12:03:42 PM|| 2004-08-23 12:03:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 I think this may have more to do with laziness and lack of intelligence by Kerry/McCain than it does with a lack of courage.

Kerry/McCain probably saw a half dozen or a dozen cases of reported MIA sightings which, upon detailed investigation, were obviously a false report. They may have then come to the conclusion that all such cases were similar.

Other people make this mistake all the time.

Posted by mhw 2004-08-23 1:03:27 PM|| 2004-08-23 1:03:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Mitch - Did you miss this article from just yesterday?

Posted by .com 2004-08-23 1:44:31 PM|| 2004-08-23 1:44:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 By the way, .com, I was being snarky to the max on my comment to that article yesterday. In retrospect, not a good article to be funnin' on.

Posted by Matt 2004-08-23 2:08:15 PM|| 2004-08-23 2:08:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Matt - I cottoned to it with the followup comment (don't recall who hit me with the ClueBat, but it was well-deserved!). I was just so unbelievably mad after reading that article that I was having trouble focusing... Sorry for being so dense, bro!

Posted by .com 2004-08-23 2:20:58 PM|| 2004-08-23 2:20:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 .com - no, I saw it when it first made the rounds last winter. I thought it was sad then, and my opinion hasn't changed in the interim.

Look, I understand that this is a hot-button issue for those who lost family. It's a hard thing, letting go. Some folks have turned not-letting-go into a sort of ancestor-worship. I can't argue with religion. But if you insistâ¦.

1) There were POWs. John McCain was one of them. They were returned, slowly and grudgingly, over the course of nearly a decade. It was an outrage. It was over before I even developed political awareness.

2) Vietnam and the rest of Indochina is a mess, search-wise. While the American military always tries to recover remains, in too many cases, it wasn't possible in Vietnam. The situation was exacerbated by the fact that at the end of the war, we no longer controlled the territory in which they were lost. We lost a lot of pilots over that country, often in areas where we had no control.

3) In the late 80s and early 90s, after the implosion of global Communism, Vietnam and the rest of Indochina discovered that a great deal of money could be made from these loose threads. A massive cottage industry sprung up around the notion of MIAs and secret POWs, and a great many criminals, scam artists, and people with financial interests had and have every motivation in the world to continue to manufacture, enhance, and propagate myths, rumors, and "facts" about MIA in the boonies, or in dank cellars, or whatever. Anything to keep the POW/MIA family money flowing. The relics merchant always keep someone in the back creating saints' knuckle-bones from pigs' bones.

4) I wouldn't trust Kerry further than I could throw Ted Kennedy, but John McCain was an actual POW. He actually has authority on the subject. I'm willing to take his word over the allegations of wild-eyed, frothing representatives of a group of people known for assaulting those who disagree with them.

Posted by Mitch H. 2004-08-23 2:30:57 PM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2004-08-23 2:30:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Ok - for you. Referring to those who don't hold your POV as "wild-eyed, frothing" doesn't strike me as either fair or balanced. You know what you know - and guess at the rest - just like everyone else. That reference and choice of words sounds much like Skeery, too.

As for McCain, well, my opinion about him has, let's say, evolved over the last 2 years. He's a natural politician and self-serving asshole with a what's-in-it-for-me and how-can-I-profit attitude. He now portrays himself as the moral arbiter of honor - and that chafes. I know a little about honor and I'm sure he's a lousy example of it. He (and his self-righteous ilk) give me a feeling probably akin to yours for the POW families. Such is life, I guess.

Posted by .com 2004-08-23 2:50:30 PM|| 2004-08-23 2:50:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 What, are you telling me that Ted Sampley and his cohort don't merit the description "wild-eyed, frothing"? My mistake, I'm sure.

Posted by Mitch H. 2004-08-23 3:10:02 PM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2004-08-23 3:10:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 And no, I don't take McCain's word as bible truth on John Kerry's record. He wasn't there, he has no special knowledge on the subject, and he's inherently biased due to the bruising South Carolina fight.

There's a hell of a big difference between sleazeballs push-polling South Carolina primary voters with racist trash about McCain's adopted daughter and paranoid lunacy about "Manchurian Candidate" programming, and Kerry's peers and superiors opining in above-the-board public testimony about their opinions about his fitness for the office.

I think McCain's sore on the subject, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his irrationality about negative ads. The same way I try to give the POW-MIA folks on their blind spots.

But lord, lord, it is hard.

Posted by Mitch H. 2004-08-23 3:15:50 PM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2004-08-23 3:15:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Ah, the tarred brush approach. Ted may not be a sterling example of decorum, but to paint ALL who might share an issue with whatever disdain you hold for him is simply disingenuous and cowardly.

Y'know, I don't have a problem with differing opinions when the topic is truly unknown. Apparently you do. You didn't refute diddley-squat regards either article's assertions. They did a lot of homework, it's obvious. You rely upon McCain's word. Which is more convincing or intriguing?

Your grand swipe at these people, simply by association, and desire to put it to rest because you believe McCain is less than convincing. Must be some fire behind your smoke.

Oh well. Another day, another wild-eyed frothing opinion.

HAND

Posted by .com 2004-08-23 3:31:30 PM|| 2004-08-23 3:31:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Oops, we overlapped. So you don't take McCain's word. Okay. I don't much care.

Posted by .com 2004-08-23 3:32:36 PM|| 2004-08-23 3:32:36 PM|| Front Page Top

13:28 Atomic Conspiracy
13:28 Atomic Conspiracy
13:29 Atomic Conspiracy
13:29 Atomic Conspiracy
03:41 dacau forever
03:34 dacau forever
04:21 dacau forever
21:35 Zenster
09:55 Anonymous6160
08:40 ed
08:05 GreatestJeneration
07:50 Aris Katsaris
05:07 True German Ally
03:41 Zenster
03:18 paracletes
02:27 True German Ally
02:17 .com
02:14 Super Hose
02:11 Zenster
01:47 Brewer
00:57 Super Hose
00:48 True German Ally
00:35 GreatestJeneration
00:32 .com