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2004-08-23 Home Front: Culture Wars
"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy"
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Posted by PLEASE SUPPORT THE TROUPS 2004-08-23 04:33|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Well, "DU" is partially correct...

What we have here is a Bay Area winkie-twinkie DUmmy Dupe article - on DU, Death, and Disingenuous pretenses. The nym, for instance...

*flush*
Posted by .com 2004-08-23 4:53:05 AM||   2004-08-23 4:53:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 This is terrible if the author is credible and the information is true. It seems that the author has documented and named her sources. Quite frankly I had no idea that DU was still being used or that we had allowed Israel to use DU or that our vets from Gulf War I and the current Iraq War had such unusually high rates of medical problems or that their wives and children had suffered serious side effects. Am I the only one who is shocked by the health dangers our troops are required to face. And why all the secrecy in this day and age of gov't transparency? Why do our Congressmen set up commissions to investigate panties on the head at Abu but none of them have looked out for our own soldiers? This really steams me.
Posted by rex 2004-08-23 5:04:52 AM||   2004-08-23 5:04:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Mostly rex because this is totally false

This is typical LLL enviro-wackyness because the U in DU stands for Urainium it has to be double plus bad. There is no evidence that this is "bad stuff" unless you are on the catching end in emnemy armor. Then you are screwed, end of story.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-08-23 5:27:34 AM||   2004-08-23 5:27:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Sock Puppet of Doom YOUR STUPIDITY IS AS LARGE AS THE ALIAS THAT YOU CHOOSE TO PRESENT YOURSELF DO NOT EVER USE THE WORD FALSE JUST BECOUSE YOUR BLIND IDOLATRY TO YOUR MORON IN CHIEF AND ALL IS GANG OF LACKEYS ARMY BRASS IS DICTATING SO
Posted by  PLEASE SUPPORT THE TROUPS 2004-08-23 6:05:41 AM|| [http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2003/Leuren-Moret-Gen-Groves21feb03.htm]  2004-08-23 6:05:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 PSTT - Have a word with the nurse. I think it's time to start upping the dose again.
Posted by Bulldog  2004-08-23 6:16:05 AM||   2004-08-23 6:16:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 PSTT

Present evidence or STFU.

Thank you.
Posted by Heysenbergmayhavebeenhere 2004-08-23 6:25:30 AM||   2004-08-23 6:25:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Yes Bulldog I think 1000 mg of Thorizine 4 times a day can fix `um right up.

And I am pretty positive about what I posted being correct as I know what depleted means. I suggest the facts and not histrionics.

I also leave no doubt as to whom the true Sock Puppet of Doom is.
Posted by FlameBait93268 2004-08-23 6:26:10 AM||   2004-08-23 6:26:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 LOL another good call Bulldog! PSTT use some new words when trying to rant. If you use: IDOLATRY, LACKEYS, etc. everyone is knows that you are a DU idiot. Also upping the meds might make those voices go away.
Posted by Cyber Sarge  2004-08-23 7:26:18 AM||   2004-08-23 7:26:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 HAving worked in the nuclear industry, specifically with depleted uranium, I am very skeptical of this article. the only way to get depleted uranium into the body is injest it. I really don't think soldiers are eating it. I think this story is based on inuendo.
Posted by Deacon Blues 2004-08-23 7:33:43 AM||   2004-08-23 7:33:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 The dangers of DU is an old moonbat bete noir. One of the minor things to come out of the removal of the Ba'ath regime in Iraq was the revelation that the birth-defect rates that the DU chickenlittles were using in their "studies" were better-mapped to areas where poison battle-gasses were used extensively during the wars of the 1980s.

I wouldn't want to gargle with DU, but I'd be more worried about asbestos, if I were you. Especially if you were on-site at the WTC.
Posted by Mitch H.  2004-08-23 8:45:34 AM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]  2004-08-23 8:45:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Sock Puppet of Doom/FB93268 nailed it! (I love it!)
And Bulldog, hilarious comeback...I'm still laughing...LOL!
Posted by GreatestJeneration  2004-08-23 8:50:14 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-08-23 8:50:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 The only way that depleted uranium rounds can hurt you is if they're coming at you at 4000 fps because they've been fired out of a cannon. Hint: it's the kinetic energy, not the radioactivity, that you need to worry about.

Please learn to spell "THE TROOPS" if you really want to support them.
Posted by Mike  2004-08-23 9:17:28 AM||   2004-08-23 9:17:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Once again, here are some facts about depleted uranium (from the World Health Org., not exactly a VRWC member!)
Posted by Spot  2004-08-23 9:21:19 AM||   2004-08-23 9:21:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 'Round about the age of ten, I personally handled a large chunk of DU. It was in a kid's museum; they had a half dozen cylinders of different metals, all the same volume. There was aluminum, steel, lead, and depleted uranium in the display.

rex -- pull your head out of your ass. You're starting to show signs of oxygen deprivation.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-08-23 9:24:31 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-08-23 9:24:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 There's no moron in this story except the poster. Another example of how lefties lives in a fictional universe of their own fevered imagination.
Posted by virginian 2004-08-23 9:44:39 AM||   2004-08-23 9:44:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 rex: This is terrible if the author is credible and the information is true. It seems that the author has documented and named her sources. Quite frankly I had no idea that DU was still being used or that we had allowed Israel to use DU or that our vets from Gulf War I and the current Iraq War had such unusually high rates of medical problems or that their wives and children had suffered serious side effects. Am I the only one who is shocked by the health dangers our troops are required to face. And why all the secrecy in this day and age of gov't transparency? Why do our Congressmen set up commissions to investigate panties on the head at Abu but none of them have looked out for our own soldiers? This really steams me.

Rex appears to believe that making intellectual arguments consists of using as his sources the New York Times and left-wing journals. He would be better off reading the original scholarship instead of having it filtered through the reality distortion field of the liberal media.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-08-23 9:45:01 AM|| [http://www.polipundit.com]  2004-08-23 9:45:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 I'll bite: what's a troup?

Bottom line, in NATO, you either use DU rounds or Tungsten rounds. Tungsten, like most of Europe, is soft. DU kills armor, effectively. DU also has less than, I believe, background radiation, on account of it, being, well, depleted.

Posted by A Troop 2004-08-23 9:47:43 AM||   2004-08-23 9:47:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 ZF, Could rex have been sarcastic? Until yesterday, I wouldn't have had any doubt.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-08-23 9:50:01 AM||   2004-08-23 9:50:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Rex:

ONce again you gullibly swallow the left's standard swill, uncritiaclly, hook line and sinker.

You have just disproven any of your claims ot be a conservative.

You're simply a false flag leftist, trying to disrupt. Witness your behavior yesterday and your utter inability to address any of the salient points brought up, and your ignoring what you cannot handle, descedning into ad hominem attacks, gross fallacies of argumentation, and severe evasivelness. These are all the signs of a weak mind or else a troll.

You give me no reasons to consider you anything more than a troll, or else a moral coward.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-23 10:09:36 AM||   2004-08-23 10:09:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 A "troup" usually has an "e" at the end and refers to a group of performers.

(And here I thought DU was Democratic Underground... but then given the idiotic style of the posting, I didn't bother to click through.)
Posted by eLarson 2004-08-23 10:23:06 AM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2004-08-23 10:23:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 AFAIK, the main hazard from DU comes from its chemical toxicity, not radiation. Like lead and cadmium, it is one of the heavy metals; you wouldn't want to eat it, breathe the dust, or dump a solution of it into the water supply.

As to DU's radiation hazard, it emits primarily alpha particles. These do not have significant penetrating power, hence the use of DU as a radiation shielding material in medical instrumentation: its extreme density provides excellent shielding from beta or gamma radiation sources, while its own alpha emissions can be effectively blocked by as little as a coat of paint.

The only other danger posed by DU is that contemplation of the substance has been proven to cause insanity in individuals in which other disease precursors (Leftism, stupidity, ignorance, gullibility, etc.) are present. The chronic form of the disease has no known cure; with the acute form, the introduction of bright, shiny objects can sometimes mitigate the symptoms for brief periods.
Posted by Dave D. 2004-08-23 10:25:49 AM||   2004-08-23 10:25:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 #4 Sock Puppet of Doom YOUR STUPIDITY IS AS LARGE AS THE ALIAS THAT YOU CHOOSE.... In that case, PLEASE SUPPORT THE TROUPS, you win the STUPIDITY contest by six letters.
Posted by GK 2004-08-23 11:02:04 AM||   2004-08-23 11:02:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 Okay....everybody sit down, especially you, rex. There's gonna be a test afterwards.
I'm Professor Mike - USAF Munitions Specialist, retired. I've got some experience with DU ammo - A-10s at Shaw AFB, SC (21 TFS and 55 FS)for three years, along with three trips to Red Flag as Munitions Line Delivery Supervisor. In addition, I was responsible for the transport, storage and inspection of more than fifty million rounds of DU ammo at Prince Sultan AB, Saudi Arabia, Jan -Aug 95. This article isn't an article - it's a rant, and not a good one, either. I don't know where to even begin with this thing - I feel like Tom Wolfe's description of the Fool Killer, "so overwhelmed by the magnitude of the opportunity that all he could do was shake his head, lower his club, and walk away."
That doesn't mean I'm not gonna try.*G*

Vast regions in the Middle East and Central Asia have been permanently contaminated with radiation.
No they haven't. For the LAST F**KING TIME: there is an extremely brief burst of gamma radiation on impact. That's IT. Some residue will fall outside the target, and REMAINS within arm's reach of the impact point regadless of fire or smoke. Plow it up, kick it up, even let it dry up and blow away and it is utterly HARMLESS. Reach down and ingest huge amounts of the dirt and you will become far sicker from the dirt than you ever will from the DU residue.

Terry Jemison of the Department of Veterans Affairs reported this week to the American Free Press that ?Gulf-era veterans? now on medical disability since 1991 number 518,739, with only 7,035 reported wounded in Iraq in that same 14-year period.

Well, you dumb shit, how many people got OUT of the military in the 14 year period? And what are those disabilities FOR? I notice she didn't elaborate on that. And BTW, although this is purely anecdotal, I have known people who have handled and worked with DU ammo for decades and have NEVER known one who developed a problem that could even be remotely linked to it.

In a group of 251 soldiers from a study group in Mississippi who had all had normal babies before the Gulf War, 67 percent of their post-war babies were born with severe birth defects.


Let me get this straight - in a nation where a relative handful of problems at Love Canal was national news for years and only the POSSIBILITY of problems at Times Beach, Mississippi caused the evacuation and destruction of that town, NOBODY has picked up on this?..
Just asking.

Military research report summaries detail the testing of DU from 1974-1999 at military testing grounds, bombing and gunnery ranges and at civilian labs under contract. Today 42 states are contaminated with DU from manufacture, testing and deployment.
There are two - count 'em, TWO - ranges in the US where DU rounds are fired. I know people who work at the largest of them at Eglin AFB in FL. There is a greater health hazard from pesticide residues that drift in from OFF base than there is from any DU residue. BTW - the last live DU firing was sometime in the late 90s. There are only two plants in the US that manufacture the stuff - IIRC Honeywell and Aerojet General. Anywhere else that DU systems are fired, they use STEEL training rounds. I know, I've helped process and load several million of them. Now this dumb shit needs to account for the other 38 states.

Medical professionals in hospitals and facilities treating returning soldiers were threatened with $10,000 fines if they talked about the soldiers or their medical problems. They were also threatened with jail.

Let me get this straight - NOBODY has talked about this, but Abu Ghraib won't freaking die...

Sen. Paul Wellstone informed Joyce Riley, R.N., B.S.N., executive director of the American Gulf War Veterans Association, that 95 percent of Gulf War veterans had been recycled out of the military by 1995. Any of those continuing in military service were isolated from each other, preventing critical information being transferred to new troops.

Because they GOT OUT OF THE GODDAMNED SERVICE, you idiot!!!! And obviously, these folks haven't seen the huge number of Gulf War vets interviewed in combat on CNN or Fox.

atomicity

WTF?

And I'm not even going to get into the list of references she posts. My blood pressure is high enough.
Bottom line, rex: This nice lady and her article are so full of shit, her eyes are brown. I know, I've been there/done that. This is the same recycled crap that's been going around ever since the Soviets started the propaganda against it in the early 70s.
And BTW - THEY were using DU rounds well before we ever thought of them.

Mike
Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2004-08-23 11:09:47 AM||   2004-08-23 11:09:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 Very Good Dave D. Depleted Uranium is basically Uranium-238. Natural Uranium is made up of mostly U-238 some U-235 and a lessor amount of highly radioactive U-234. When the U-235 is extracted for bomb making etc, the higher radioactive U-234 is filtered out with it. Leaving the "depleted" U-238; orginally not good for anything and only about half as radioactive as natural uranium. The natural uranium dust that miners breathed in enclosed spaces over decades caused NONE of the effects attributed by the Looney Left to DU. But DU, although less radioactive than natural uranium is still a heavy metal (68% denser than lead) and thus is toxic. But you'd have to eat a lot of it in a short time frame to affect you. In the same manner as lead, or mercury, or cadmium or even natural uranium.
Posted by Anonymous6150 2004-08-23 11:32:11 AM||   2004-08-23 11:32:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 Nice rant, Mike. You're our "go to guy" for munitions stuff.
Posted by GK 2004-08-23 12:12:19 PM||   2004-08-23 12:12:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 I'm trying to think of a stronger word than "Fisking." Obliteration? Demolition?
Posted by Matt 2004-08-23 12:39:05 PM||   2004-08-23 12:39:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 GK-
Thank you sir, I do my best.*bows* Hail Rantburg!!
And Matt, I think the word you're looking for is 'execution'.

Mike
Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2004-08-23 12:53:13 PM||   2004-08-23 12:53:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Thank you Mike K. and Anonymous6150. I plan to do further research on my own.

As for ZH and Jen[the hear no evil, see no evil cheerleaders for closed minds]...do you ever get out of your closets during the day? Do you ever read or speak to anyone other than your own bathroom mirrors?

In case you neocon groupies have not heard about Vietnam, or WW I and II, there were lots of nasty things that our own troops were exposed to and our own gov't, both Republican and Democrat, have not always been consistently careful about our grunts on the ground.

Although the lady is from Berkeley and there was a good deal of attack interwoven through her article,[that was obvious-I don't need high school drop outs to point it out to me, thank you very much] she did quote named sources and reports, which is better than what you 2 ever do, since you read nothing for fear it might "contaminate" your brains. Trust me - no worries there. Just keep looking in the mirror and talking to yourself and you will be safe.

Posted by rex 2004-08-23 12:53:21 PM||   2004-08-23 12:53:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Mike- spot on! One tiny correction- Times Beach is in Missouri. It is such a shame that a pretty little community got closed down for years due to hysterics. A much larger community in Italy got dosed with higher amounts of PCB from an industrial accident and all they did was scrape some of the dirt in parks and school yards. No long term health effects have been noted.
Posted by Craig  2004-08-23 1:01:24 PM||   2004-08-23 1:01:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Rex-
You're welcome, sir. Let me point out though that although you are correct when you say:

or WW I and II, there were lots of nasty things that our own troops were exposed to and our own gov't, both Republican and Democrat, have not always been consistently careful about our grunts on the ground

There is a caveat that you need to be aware of - in the overwhelming majority of those incidents ( and most of them involve the nuke tests), the people in charge and the scientists involved simply did NOT know about said hazards until many years - and sometimes decades later. Again, I know - my father lives in fear that his presence at a 1956 Yucca Flats test may come back to haunt him. (I do want to note here that he has stayed in close contact with the men in his unit, and no one has yet developed any problems that could be connected to the tests.)

Best regards,
Mike
Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2004-08-23 1:04:12 PM||   2004-08-23 1:04:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 "Leuren Moret is a geoscientist"
Oooh, what an official sounding title! Just where is this school of geoscience and what degree did this moron obtain?
Posted by Craig  2004-08-23 1:11:40 PM||   2004-08-23 1:11:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Leftists demonize DU for the same reason they have demonized cluster bombs, napalm, "aerial bombing" in general, and, in the 80s, the deployment of intermediate range missiles in Europe: these weapons are effective against the forces the pop-Left supports.
The IRM uproar, which we now know was a KGB promotional effort, became a conformist cause celebre on American campuses.
Among other things, literally every IRM opponent I spoke to believed that this was the first time nuclear weapons had been deployed in Europe, yet another example of subhuman Left-devil propagandists relying on gross ignorance and pseduo-elitist hubris to give their lies some kind of superficiality.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-23 1:16:24 PM||   2004-08-23 1:16:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Oops, last line should read "some kind of superficial credibility" ("superficiality" fits but is not especially relevant).
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-23 1:19:13 PM||   2004-08-23 1:19:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 If nothing else, I'd dismiss this for the very first clause of the first sentence:

Vietnam was a chemical war for oil...

Let's look at Ms. Leuren Moret's resume, shall we? A google search turns up mostly references to DU.

This bio page says:
Leuren Moret is an independent scientist who works on
radiation and public health issues with communities
around the world. She earned her B.S. in Geology at
U.C. Davis in 1968, and her M.A. in Near Eastern
Studies from U.C. Berkeley in 1978. She has completed all but her dissertation for a PhD. in the Geosciences at U.C. Davis.

The words "independent scientist" ought to ring alarm bells all by themselves. UC Davis has no listing for a current student by this name, suggesting that the ABD is going to stay an ABD.

Here she is giving three (fluffy) workshops at a 2001 meeting of the Geological Society of America. The "more details" window says that she's a former president of the Association of Women Geoscientists. The AWG felt it necessary to issue a disclaimer to the effect that Moret doesn't speak for it. (It's not clear what letter they're referring to, since Moret has several web articles floating about.)

Here's a letter she wrote to Rantburg Fave Rep. Jim McDermott. It emphasizes "a blueprint for DU" in the form of a memo sent to Gen. Leslie Groves (in charge of the Manhattan Project) supposedly by Conant, Compton, and Urey (the latter two Nobel laureates; don't know how Conant escaped). The memo does discuss the possibility of the use of radioactive materials as weapons, from an offensive as well as defensive point of view (although the former is given short shrift). But you'll note that the unspecified "material" under discussion is a beta emitter, not an alpha emitter. Furthermore, the memo discusses radioactive material *as* a weapon, rather than as a side effect. Also note that the lack of protective technology cited was true as of 1943.

Here she is in July at a Symposium on Media and Disinformation. This notes that she recently testified at the International Criminal Tribunal for Afghanistan (Pres. George W. Bush sentenced Guilty for Crime of Aggression, Guilty for War Crimes, Guilty for Crimes against Humanity).

I got bored before discovered what she did at Lawrence Berkeley and Lawrence Livermore, or what "whistleblowing" she supposedly did.

In short, she is one of the Professionally Indignant, and her confusion over the contents of the Groves memo shows she's either scientifically dishonest, or incompetent.
Posted by Angie Schultz 2004-08-23 1:38:58 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com]  2004-08-23 1:38:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 I enjoyed your post, Mike, as I'm sure many others do to. However, I feel certain it was wasted on rex. His transmitter is stuck on the transmit mode and thus he is unable to receive.

Or it might be helpful to think of him as a tape player, repeating the same ideas over and over again, with no equipment to modify the message.

rex, you've been repeating the same ideas for some time now, with no results. Since constant repetition is not working, have you tried using all caps?
Posted by B 2004-08-23 1:47:13 PM||   2004-08-23 1:47:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 My mind isn't closed, rex, unlike yours.
I've known my own mind for some time, but I am very well-read and informed and I am the proud earner of not one, but 2 Masters degrees, in that you're so impressed by post-graduate work but I've read more books than you've had hot dinners, some of them in French.
I can certainly tell when I'm reading crap, lies and insubstantial or otherwise unsubstantiated sh*t, thank you very much but clearly you can't--this old canard of America and Israel using DU armaments has been around for a long time.
(It's one of the arrows they pull out of their quiver when they're really desperate!)
I also think you're a troll, but worse still, I think you're a Jew-hating troll who's too craven to admit it, unlike RB's other trolls.
Posted by GreatestJeneration  2004-08-23 1:48:56 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-08-23 1:48:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 rex, BTW, I'm sick to death of you picking on me and singling me out because I'm a woman who's smarter than you!
I didn't choose my sex.
Posted by GreatestJeneration  2004-08-23 2:03:39 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-08-23 2:03:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Angie,

I'd vote for "incompetent" for Ms. Leuren Moret, M.A. I mean, a master's in Near Eastern Studies (musn't forget all those important caps) in 1978 fergawdsakes?!? My own dear mother got an M.S. and two PhDs in eleven years -- part time while rearing four kids and working in the field. I haven't her drive, but I'm not claiming to be an expert in anything 'cept life experience.

Loudmouthed poseur.
Posted by trailing wife 2004-08-23 3:17:05 PM||   2004-08-23 3:17:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Maybe you'd like to read what a respected Swiss lab has to say about the issue. They investigated the effects that DU may have had on Swiss troups in Kosovo.

How does depleted uranium affect man?

In the former battlefields, DU makes only a tiny contribution towards the already present external radiation from natural sources. However, long-lasting direct skin contact with DU ammunition fragments should be avoided.

In former battlefields, the inhalation of DU aerosols is the critical pathway for human exposure. An acute health risk is practically only to be feared from the chemical toxicity of uranium.

The ingestion of DU poses practically no danger to the population in the former theatres of war.

For the population in the former theatres of war, wound contamination by DU has no significance.

An apocalypse caused by man as a result of the use of DU ammunition in Iraq and the Balkans is not worthy of discussion!

If certain minimal precautions are taken - i.e. no trespassing on tank wrecks and no long-term contact with remaining DU ammunition fragments - the health risks of a time-limited stay in a DU-contaminated area are shown to be negligibly small, especially in comparison to other risks such as mine fields, duds, snipers, etc.

Effect on Soldiers

Before the introduction of DU weapons in the US, estimates and calculations led to the judgement that the occupants of tanks which have been hit by DU projectiles and who survived these hits without great injury, may be affected, at the most, by reversible, short-term effects on the kidneys, as well as by an irradiation below the legal yearly limit. These risks, in comparison to the other much greater risks during battle, were considered to be acceptable. These estimates are rather conservative and appear to be plausible. Medical examinations of a group of about 100 soldiers exposed to DU aerosols in their own tanks from friendly fire incidents during the Gulf War, have not discovered any health damages so far, that could be attributed to DU. Somewhat less certain is the long-term prognosis of adverse health effects for those injured by DU fragments. Up to now, in this whole group of approximately 30 people, there has also been no evidence of negative effects.

Additional and much larger groups of Gulf War veterans stayed in the vicinity of the destroyed tanks and ammunition fires or entered such places afterwards. In these cases, at the most, only rough estimates can be made, since neither measurement data on DU emissions or dose calculations have yet been published. One can estimate that the DU uptake by these groups of people was far less than by those who were directly exposed. The well-known health problems that were later observed in many Gulf War veterans, called "Gulf War Syndrome" cannot be explained by exposure to uranium, and therefore, must be attributed to other causes.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-23 3:18:29 PM||   2004-08-23 3:18:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Jeeez, this war thing is getting so dangerous.
I'd need some sort of general insurance against getting dead before I'd even think of it. I know! I will crank out a universal hold harmless against me... it'll stick in any court.
Posted by Shipman 2004-08-23 4:36:12 PM||   2004-08-23 4:36:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 I'm always respected Swiss Labs. Sandoz was a great retriever.
Posted by Half 2004-08-23 4:37:28 PM||   2004-08-23 4:37:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Steven Den Beste wrote an excellent article on DU: http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2003/09/RadiationcontaminationinI.shtml
Posted by sc88  2004-08-23 8:13:37 PM||   2004-08-23 8:13:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 #3 Sock Puppet of Doom: You need to get the latest edition of the Newspeak dictionary: bad has been replaced by ungood. Remember: Big Brother is watching, and he would hate for you to slip into ThoughtCrime.
Posted by Xbalanke  2004-08-23 8:20:13 PM||   2004-08-23 8:20:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Half: Mr Q made visits to you too? LOL
Posted by Frank G  2004-08-23 8:25:41 PM||   2004-08-23 8:25:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 OMG! double plus good of me then. Big Brother has been watching me for a long time. I occasionally moon him.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-08-23 8:26:29 PM||   2004-08-23 8:26:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 The chronic form of the disease has no known cure; with the acute form, the introduction of bright, shiny objects can sometimes mitigate the symptoms for brief periods.

And the award for Best Snide Comment in an Otherwise Serious Thread goes to ...
Posted by Zenster 2004-08-23 8:54:23 PM||   2004-08-23 8:54:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 #17 I'll bite: what's a troup?

I think he's referring to the late great musician Bobby Troup who wrote the jazz standard "Route 66".

Bobby also played Dr. Joe Early on the 1970's TV show "Emergency!", produced by good friend Jack Webb (of "Dragnet" fame).

Bobby was married at one time to the beautiful jazz singer Julie London who also acted on "Emergency!" playing Nurse Dixie McCall.

I support the Troups and the troops!
Posted by JDB 2004-08-23 10:04:43 PM||   2004-08-23 10:04:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 I've gone through this entire thing a few times before. It's always good for a laugh or two. I think the following comment really, really sums it up perfectly:

the debate about DU’s environmental and health impacts persists, at least in part because the positions of both extremes dominating the debate are dictated more by politics and ideology than by science and common sense."

For those too lazy to do their own research, here are a list of just a few of the better sites on the subject:

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/faq_17apr.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/du.htm
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/europe/2001/depleted_uranium/default.stm
http://www.csmonitor.com/atcsmonitor/specials/uranium/
http://www.nato.int/du/home.htm
http://www.ccnr.org/du_hague.html
http://www.mod.uk/issues/depleted_uranium/
http://www.antenna.nl/wise/uranium/diss.html

I've even included a couple I disagree with, just to show that I'm not unwilling to view a "dissenting" opinion, even when I can tell within the first ten words that it's a piece of fecal matter. Enjoy the read.
Posted by Old Patriot  2004-08-23 10:23:22 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]  2004-08-23 10:23:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 suggested word: Democredibization?
Posted by Frank G  2004-08-23 10:50:04 PM||   2004-08-23 10:50:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 Frank - Lol! It's a bear to say, but you'll see it in a future comment, I promise!
Posted by .com 2004-08-23 10:53:31 PM||   2004-08-23 10:53:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 you're lucky you don't drink: I couldn't pronounce it twice the same way :-)
Posted by Frank G  2004-08-23 10:58:11 PM||   2004-08-23 10:58:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 Hell, you're right: I'm sober as hell - and still can't figure out how to say it! But written, it rocks!
Posted by .com 2004-08-23 11:03:33 PM||   2004-08-23 11:03:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 Troup? Does he have a brother who plays tight end for the Titans?
Posted by Brewer 2004-08-24 1:47:03 AM||   2004-08-24 1:47:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#54 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-23 1:29:29 PM||   2004-08-23 1:29:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-23 1:29:29 PM||   2004-08-23 1:29:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#56 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-23 1:28:52 PM||   2004-08-23 1:28:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#57 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-23 1:28:52 PM||   2004-08-23 1:28:52 PM|| Front Page Top

13:28 Atomic Conspiracy
13:28 Atomic Conspiracy
13:29 Atomic Conspiracy
13:29 Atomic Conspiracy
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04:21 dacau forever
21:35 Zenster
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08:40 ed
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07:50 Aris Katsaris
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00:57 Super Hose
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