Article

2004-08-16 Europe

'Bin Laden' allowed into Olympics stadium

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Posted by tipper 2004-08-16 12:20:50 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Michael Mouse got in? The bloody nerve! He owes me a hundred bucks! Stop that montebank! Listen to me! He is a liar and a cheat, fire him!

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-08-16 2:48:08 AM|| 2004-08-16 2:48:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 And of course, all of this is authenticated by what photographic evidence, which notary public or particular professional witness?

Anyone may claim what is printed above, but without some sort of verifiable chronological record it means little more than used Ouzo.

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-16 4:37:55 AM|| 2004-08-16 4:37:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 The Mirror certainly has something of a 'credibility problem' after the fake soldier abuse pics it chose to publish, but I don't doubt these claims. British tabloids love this sort of infiltration expose; they're common and trustworthy. I can't recall one turning out to have been faked... Howard, Shep, Tony?

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-16 5:00:43 AM|| 2004-08-16 5:00:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 That are going to have to let terrorists in just soon to fill the empty seats. A mostly empty stadium isn't much of a target.

Posted by Flamebait93268 2004-08-16 5:06:10 AM|| 2004-08-16 5:06:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 his passport being "crammed with border entry stamps from countries known to harbour Al Qaeda sympathisers such as Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon".

I think that if he's going to accuse the security of the Olympics for not using enough profiling, he should also have made a note that he is a blonde, middle-aged, chubby, and clean-shaved person with Northern European looks.

So really at that point one has to wonder whether it was too little or too *much* profiling that allowed him to get in. (always assuming his story is true)

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-08-16 8:41:04 AM|| 2004-08-16 8:41:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I think that if he's going to accuse the security of the Olympics for not using enough profiling...

Is he? As far as I can see, he's simply accusing the security of being incompetent. That's a whole different issue from 'profiling'.

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-16 8:53:12 AM|| 2004-08-16 8:53:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 No, they're always pretty close to the mark - infiltration plots like this are the oxygen of British tabloids - very unlikely to have been faked IMHO. I await the first boom with trepidation. May I say, having travelled across Greece by rail, they seem to have sorted themselves out and done a damn good job thus far.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-16 8:58:39 AM|| 2004-08-16 8:58:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Bulldog> "Is he? As far as I can see, he's simply accusing the security of being incompetent"

I think the "crammed with border entry stamps from countries known to harbour Al Qaeda sympathisers such as Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon" implied that he has a background of travels that fits a terrorist's profile -- but as I said he's not mentioning the elements that don't so fit it.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-08-16 9:03:51 AM|| 2004-08-16 9:03:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 I can just imagine that after all this fuss they've got the usual lard-ass Greek cop with his ass falling out the back of his trousers threatening foreigners with a stick if they don't let him get his 40.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-16 9:15:45 AM|| 2004-08-16 9:15:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 What you seem to be implying, Aris, is that only swarthy men with heavy accents need raise the suspicions of the Olympic security. Just a wee bit racist on your part, no?

Doesn't the fact that he walked round with imitation bombs worry you in the slightest? Besides, how did your ~~non-existent~~ supposed 'profiling' miss a man named "bin Laden"?

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-16 9:18:14 AM|| 2004-08-16 9:18:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Bulldog> "What you seem to be implying, Aris, is that only swarthy men with heavy accents need raise the suspicions of the Olympic security."

No, I think I'm saying that you can't have it both ways: you can't both use his travels from the Middle-east as argument in favour of him being a high risk, *and* not accept that his actually being a Nordic middle-aged overweight clean-shaved chap is an argument against that.

Choose and pick. Should such profiling occur or shouldn't it? Should every person be treated as an equal risk, or should such things as origins be taken into account to put people into low- and high-risk categories? Choose! CHOOSE!

Besides, how did your non-existent supposed 'profiling' miss a man named "bin Laden"?

A name which he says he pencilled in on his pass. Not the name that he actually *provided* to anyone. He may have gotten a "haha! nice joke!" by anyone who saw the name pencilled on his pass, but I'd doubt he'd have mentioned that.

Besides that, I have no clue whether Greek security is efficient or not. I'm only saying that *his* arguments are hole-filled.

And btw, some bits like the metal scanners being out of order have been categorically denied -- and even though my distrust towards the greek government is exceedingly great, my distrust towards the reporters of British tabloids is even greater.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-08-16 9:42:27 AM|| 2004-08-16 9:42:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Nothing better than the Press (a) messing with and adding to the problems of an already overstretched security apperatus. (b) Telling Al Queda where the week spots. are.

From a certain cynical point of view this looks like a terrorist dry run done right before our eyes.

Posted by yank 2004-08-16 9:43:47 AM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com] 2004-08-16 9:43:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 What about stories of give away tickets? Is this really being porly attended?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-08-16 9:53:42 AM|| 2004-08-16 9:53:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Sure, Aris. Any excuse rather than face up to the fact that a man was allowed to wander around Olympic sites carrying and planting imitation bombs, who doctored his pass and had a history of visiting terrorist states. Oh no, you'd rather blame the British journalist than the embarassingly poor quality of Greek security. You also think terrorists (and all Muslims, presumably) are easily identifiable by sight alone. Very healthy attitude you have there... Sounds like you'd do as good a job at organising security as whoever's alread in charge.

Yank - you don't believe that pointing out how inadequate the (very expensive and, by some, vaunted) Olympic security arrangements are is a good thing? Better to protect the underperforming hosts from embarrassment rather than raise awareness amongst the public as to how their protection has been neglected?

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-16 10:02:20 AM|| 2004-08-16 10:02:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 At least the Greeks are now aware of the surname 'Bin Laden'.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-16 10:04:56 AM|| 2004-08-16 10:04:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Bulldog, I think doing such a thing could be a great public service if the information were provided to security before published to the world. It would be best if it was published after the Olympics had completed to prevent fear from screwing with the already screwed attendance.

As is all the report serves is to spread fear and provide the Greeks with someone to blame for the empty seats.

Posted by yank 2004-08-16 10:49:56 AM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com] 2004-08-16 10:49:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Yank, I've got friends at the Olympics now. I'd rather they knew what they were getting themselves involved with. Would you trust the Greek authorities, with their blame-the-messenger attitude, to sort things out if told of the lapses in private? Could they? The Mirror's done us all a favour in bringing the shocking information to light. Hopefully future organisers will be more on the ball.

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-16 10:55:59 AM|| 2004-08-16 10:55:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Bulldog,

"You also think terrorists (and all Muslims, presumably) are easily identifiable by sight alone."

John Walker Lindh being a prime example of one that couldn't.

Posted by Ernest Brown 2004-08-16 11:31:37 AM|| [http://saturninretrograde.blogspot.com] 2004-08-16 11:31:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Ernest - and shoebomber Richard Reid (if only he'd shaved, lost those insane stary eyes, showered, stopped muttering like a lunatic. But I'm glad you see my point. Besides, it's not just alQ who might want to poop the party. Greece has its share of domestic terrorists.

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-16 11:38:32 AM|| 2004-08-16 11:38:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Besides, it's not just alQ who might want to poop the party. Greece has its share of domestic terrorists.

True, but you constantly miss my point that I'm referring to one *specific* argument of Graham -- namely (the way I understood it) that his having visited from the Middle-east should have put him on a high-risk grouping --- even though his profile is otherwise the *opposite* of a Middle-eastern terrorist.

John Walker Lindh

Lindh had a typically Taliban long beard and was young, he wasn't a middle-aged clean-shaved chubby fellow. Does Al Qaeda often recruit Northern European grandparents?

Hasn't the typically conservative Rantburger argument in favour of profiling been that Swedish grandmothers don't pose as much danger as young Arab men?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-08-16 11:59:05 AM|| 2004-08-16 11:59:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Bulldog, you make a good point, but would this info cause your friends to ditch the Olympics? Or do you hope that the embarrassment will cause the Greeks to take it more seriously thus preventing an attack?

Posted by yank 2004-08-16 12:29:17 PM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com] 2004-08-16 12:29:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Aris, you seem to miss the point that most Rantburgers (including myself) support profiling as part of security procedures to help identify terrorists. In situations where everyone is under scrutiny, it makes sense to include anyone who has something about them that may fit a terrorist's profile (e.g. places visited, and/or religion, and/or criminal record) for special attention. That does not mean you ignore the rest. The places visited aspect of the Mirror reporter's passport stamps should have raised a flag somewhere, sure, irrespective of his nationality or ethnicity. But that's not really the point. It seems his profile wasn't properly checked at all, and this insufficiently-vetted individual was subsequently allowed do conduct activities that would give a genuine terrorist wet dreams.

Lindh had a typically Taliban long beard and was young, he wasn't a middle-aged clean-shaved chubby fellow.

Shave Lindh, fatten him up and wait a few years... Why is that impossible? Do you really think it's impossible that a terrorist organisation would include older, fatter members? November 17's members are getting on a bit now, if I recall correctly.

Bulldog, you make a good point, but would this info cause your friends to ditch the Olympics?

No, but they may consider going to the beach rather than watching extra events. They might also be more vigilant. I expect there are a few more vigilant people out there after the Mirror story... And the Mirror's expose related to construction security failings. Too late for a terrorist organisation to use the information now.

Or do you hope that the embarrassment will cause the Greeks to take it more seriously thus preventing an attack?

Possibly, though I wouldn't expect it. But highlighting security failings not only shames the culprits - it ought to also encourage the next hosts to do a better job. And that should make life harder for the terrorists. Doesn't always work that way though. It seems every year one tabloid or another manages to smuggle a weapon and/or a gun onto an aircraft at one of the UK's major airports ;) .

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-16 2:23:30 PM|| 2004-08-16 2:23:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 OOps that should read "bomb", not "weapon".

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-16 2:25:29 PM|| 2004-08-16 2:25:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 ... "Imitation bomb", not "bomb" ...

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-16 2:26:12 PM|| 2004-08-16 2:26:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 "You have one last chance! Reject the works of heretics, confess to the ... TWO last chances! Reject the works of heretics, confess to the Pope and renew your faith ... THREE last chances ... You have THREE last chances." [/MP]

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-16 3:33:58 PM|| 2004-08-16 3:33:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 #13 - Pretty poor attendance such that I've actually bother to watch. Women's beach volleyball seemed to have a fair turn out, though -- imagine that. LOML said that there weren't many people watching girls' gymnastics last night.

Posted by eLarson 2004-08-16 6:35:53 PM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com] 2004-08-16 6:35:53 PM|| Front Page Top

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