Article

2003-03-31 Iraq

Rebuilding Iraq - US diplomats work with Germany and Russia

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Posted by Becky 2003-03-31 11:06 am|| || Front Page|| [7 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Ooops...not sure why I didn't read "France". Maybe it was just wishful thinking that caused the word to be blocked from my vision!

Posted by becky 2003-03-31 11:30:28|| 2003-03-31 11:30:28|| Front Page Top

#2 If Dubya wants to be a one-term president like his daddy, this is a sure fire way of ensuring it. I don't think the American people will forget how our "allies" the French acted before the war. The Germans and Russians might get off easier, but no way will the French be forgiven by America for a damn long time.

Posted by Former Russian Major 2003-03-31 11:54:33|| 2003-03-31 11:54:33|| Front Page Top

#3 US Diplomats. How do we know that State is going renegade again?

Besides, I would think there's more than enough companies from other countries who can meet the challenge.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-03-31 12:16:47|| 2003-03-31 12:16:47|| Front Page Top

#4 My two biggest worries about GWB are his instinct to be a "nice guy" and the ever-present doubt that he actually sees the Saudis for the enemies they are.

Bush 41's "kinder, gentler America" crap was about as comforting to me as fingernails raked across a blackboard, as was his decision to end Gulf War I without removing Saddam.

The world doesn't need- nor does it respect, as 9/11 proved- a "kinder, gentler America". What the world would greatly benefit from is a brutal, short-tempered America that's absolutely unwilling to put up with Islamist/Arab bullshit.

"Allahu Akhba-" BANG!!!!

Posted by Dave D. 2003-03-31 12:31:05|| 2003-03-31 12:31:05|| Front Page Top

#5 It's a good sign if the Russians are coming to the table. We'll welcome the Russians back, albeit with the same distrust as a cheating lover. ie: grateful the spat is over, but fully aware the relationship is not as secure as we once thought. Thus they will suffer more from a lack of enthusiasm and trust than they will at the diplomatic table.

The Germans will be included back, like an belligerent, hated ex-spouse to a wedding. We will do it because we have to, for the sake of the family.

Why we will allow the French to participate is beyond me. If I were the Russians and the Germans, I'd used this limited-time-offer to screw the French in exchange for much better deals. Americans will gladly pay premium to get a full accounting of ChIraq's dealing's with the devil...just for the pure pleasure of watching that worm squirm.

Posted by becky 2003-03-31 12:59:30|| 2003-03-31 12:59:30|| Front Page Top

#6 I agree more with Becky than with Dave - as long as this isnt wholesale giving in, but an attempt to play the weasels off against each other, it makes sense - we do need allies (and great power allies, and not just UK) going forward, and divergent interests make it hard for the AOW to hold toghther. I confess to having been surprised at how they held together pre-war - but I continue to hope that when the wars results put them on the defensive, they will break up.

I disagree with Becky somewhat about the priorities among the three - I see Germany as the easiest to reach out to. Im not sure that Russia will be easier than France. Perhaps because unlike some bloggers I have always had my doubts about Putin, and Bush's embrace of Putin - because the WOT never, IMO, fully excused what Russia has done in Chechnya, and certainly has NOT retroactively justified their position on ex-Yugoslavia. And I think there's a still a lot of emotionalism wrt France (though again I confess to being wrong in the past - I thought France would eventually go along) Bottom line - Germany first, between Russia and France lets see what they do and say in the coming weeks.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-03-31 13:11:05|| 2003-03-31 13:11:05|| Front Page Top

#7 Excuse me Becky, but weren't the German anything but belligerent in that matter? But in September 2001 NATO offered all the assistance and solidarity it had. Schroeder even risked a non confidence vote in parliament. And America said: Umm thank you, but we don't really need you. What did Russia do for you in 2001? (Later you found out that NATO would not be so bad after all and right now German troops lead ISAF in Afghanistan). Wasn't Germany one of the most faithful allies you had in Europe? And you still had it in the 90s when the Soviet threat had collapsed.
The Schroeder government has made a few crucial mistakes and all I can hope is that it doesn't make it to the next elections.
I think America still is better off with friends who make mistakes than with changing coalitions of ... well you know what.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-03-31 13:22:40|| 2003-03-31 13:22:40|| Front Page Top

#8 In the aftermath of the security council argument over Iraq, let's not mistake the Germans for either Russia or the French. I agree with True German Ally, Germany has been a staunch ally since ww2 and recent turns to the extreme left are hopefully an anomaly. The fact that France and Germany aligned on Iraq is truly a strange occurence and hopefully not indicative of a pattern, but time will tell.

Militarily, German troops are well-respected by the west, have a modern and disciplined army, and they will fight (unlike the french), so other than an odd political alignment of strange bedfellows, they have little in common with either the Russians or the frogs.

Posted by Jonesy 2003-03-31 14:17:31|| 2003-03-31 14:17:31|| Front Page Top

#9 hmmm...perhaps liberal hawk is right. He almost always rises above me to see with better moral clarity. I mean that...I'm not being snide.

As for True German Ally's post...Yes, you are right, Germany has been there for us and given us support in this war on terror. But we're bitter that Schroeder was bad mouthing us just to curry favor with the children, knowing how damaging that would be. Without the backbiting, perhaps Russia and Turkey would have come around. Perhaps we could have avoided war altogether. We will never know. But there wasn't much thanks from a country that we once helped liberate from their own Sadaam, not so long ago.

I don't have any beef with the German people, except those frothing at the mouth with anti-Americanism. But we certainly have plenty of those here at home too, so I suppose I need to rethink it. Anyway, I really only meant the analogy of the "belligerent hated ex-spouse" to extend to Schroeder and his immediate cronies, and not to the German people(represented as "the family") - perhaps it wasn't a good analogy.

Upon second thoughts, I have to agree with the concept of Germany first, then Russia.

Posted by becky 2003-03-31 14:20:20|| 2003-03-31 14:20:20|| Front Page Top

#10 I read the article and caught this little gem that gave me reason to pause:

One GOP foreign-policy guru says that Bush's ham-handed diplomacy has "left fissures that won't heal easily."

Note the so-called GOP guru is un-named, most likely the exchange leading up to that quote went like this,

"Hey Ted, do you know any GOP foreign-policy types that are hostile to Bush?"
"Hmmm, geez Bob, not off hand...what about Pinsky?"
"Pinsky? He's not a foreign-policy expert. He writes for the Times."
"Yeah, but he's dating that french chick, hates Bush with a passion and he voted for Reagan."
"Pinksy voted for REAGAN?"
"Yeah, well once. He was living in Florida at the time and got confused about the ballot..."

Then after re-reading the article again and looking into the U.S. Institute for Peace I came to the realization that this was wishful thinking presented as fact-based reporting. The U.S. Institure for Peace is a retirement home for State Department employees and has been opposed to the war in Iraq - they proposed a peaceful means of removing Saddam from power including better targeted sanctions.

This piece may be representative of U.S. business interests whose main concern is not angering our trading partners by involving them in the reconstruction of Iraq, but it doesn't seem to reflect the path the adminstration is pursuing.

Posted by Robert Modean 2003-03-31 14:28:44|| 2003-03-31 14:28:44|| Front Page Top

#11 lol! Dave and Robert both made me laugh. I just came back to say that perhaps my analogy wasn't so bad afterall. Since Germany was already "part of the family" and Russia only a cheating love interest, it seems about right. As for France, I just can't bring myself to speak to (or about) her, yet. The witch.

Posted by becky 2003-03-31 14:37:41|| 2003-03-31 14:37:41|| Front Page Top

#12 I had pointed out earlier how the rift between Germany and the U.S. (or rather Schroeder and the Bush administration) was caused. Mistakes were made on both sides. But, as the saying goes, after some marriage counseling things should improve.
There is a certain alienation here. Germans population is about as antiwar as Spanish, French or Italians (if you believe the polls). I think the German malaise (apart from having Schroeder) is that Germans had it too good for too long. They have come to like the status quo and only slowly seem to realize that the world (and the economical conditions) have changed.
Unfortunately they were not ready when Bush Sr offered Germany to be "partner in leadership" (1990). Reunified Germany is still struggling to find its new role in the world. Unfortunately we have to put up with a chancellor who willfuly squandered Germany's political capital just to get a cheap reelection.
France jumped on the opportunity. The French were positively scared that Germany could run the show in Eastern Europe. Unfortunately the dismal economy of former East Germany dragged the whole country down. Now the French are up to their old tricks.
Germany will always have to be in a certain entente with France. But not the like we have right now. To put your stakes on France and not on the U.S. is just foolish. But it's a temporary thing: Most German politicians still favor the transatlantic option even if many are awfully quiet about it these days.
But you don't throw 50 years out of the windows. We all have to find our new place in a very changed world. The sooner we realize it, the better. A little American patience will help a lot.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-03-31 15:24:39|| 2003-03-31 15:24:39|| Front Page Top

#13 True German Ally, you make an optimistic and compelling argument. Voices of reason, like yours, make for a better tomorrow.

Posted by becky 2003-03-31 16:44:39|| 2003-03-31 16:44:39|| Front Page Top

#14 Here is a very interesting article on this topic. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6972

Posted by becky 2003-03-31 18:33:21|| 2003-03-31 18:33:21|| Front Page Top

#15 Wow, that's a very balanced article. Just one objection: I do drive wayyyyy faster on the autobahn...LOL
But I would NEVER leave the keys where a French could grab them!

Posted by True German Ally 2003-03-31 20:20:18|| 2003-03-31 20:20:18|| Front Page Top

#16 We all have to find our new place in a very changed world.
Yeah but why do you have to go looking for this new place at such critical times in history.
I used to have a very favourable view of Europe, specifically Germany, thinking that America has so much in common with Germany that there's no way that there could ever be such a rift between the two. All Germany had to do was take the middle of the two extremes, France's veto of any resolution and America's predisposition to war, and we would have a UN force liberating Iraq right now (there's no way that Saddam would have complied). Instead, for some odd reason, though I may guess why, Germany chose to stick it to the US, sucking in Russia with them. Forgive me but my favourable view has now changed to antagonism and just plain mistrust. It is exactly at such critical times that friends should stick together. But it wasn't so. This is extremely disappointing, and will take long time to heal within me.
I do not mention France because they are way beyond forgiveness.

Posted by RW 2003-03-31 21:13:03|| 2003-03-31 21:13:03|| Front Page Top

#17 I've got a real problem with Russia. They have been keeping their nuclear engineers together with Iran's Bushehr reactor design and construction for mostly cash. They are basically helping the Iranians create WMD through plutonium production. I would like to work closer with the Russians, especially in the energy field. Alaskan and other US companies have been working in the Russian Far East. But the Russians are doing with Iran the same thing that the French have been doing in Iraq, namely being indirect enablers for WMD or its components.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2003-03-31 21:26:18|| 2003-03-31 21:26:18|| Front Page Top

#18 Hmmm. What if Russia and Germany are invited and France isn't? I wounder how deep the ties are between the three....

Posted by Anonymous 2003-04-01 00:24:27|| 2003-04-01 00:24:27|| Front Page Top

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